On Favre and his not retiring

[woodbuck27]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=ArFRiOHa0_OtkeJ5oIJ.ypCM2bYF?slug=ja-winnerslosers091607&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Comment woodbuck27:

I believe that NFL players, experts and media and NFL fans are looking at Green Bay, shaking their collective heads and wondering what in the name of Sam Cade is going on.

I will wonder what might it have been if Brett Favre got more support. The sad truth will be that Favre won't be able to go on playing as we witnessed in the second half Vs the Giants unless the Packer players somehow really respect and rally around his leadership and skills.

I still see a solid QB in Brett Favre but sadly I believe that those in real power see about $12 million dollars of CAP money.

Too bad they don't realize that he has earned that salary and he gives all he can under very difficult circumstances to serve the Packer team and its fans with his experience and talents.

The one thing that those who let him down didn't count on was that he wants to win and he loves the game still and is loyal to Green Bay fans. I hope the Packer fans are right back with that. That we will not tolerate anymore clipping on this Packer leader.

Winners, losers and other thoughts: Week 2

By James C. Black, Yahoo! Sports

September 16, 2007

I hate jumping to quick conclusions two weeks into the NFL season, but have we been just a tad bit premature in trying to force retirement on Green Bay Packers quarterback Brett Favre?

I know, the season still is young; the offense did next to nothing in Week 1 against the Philadelphia Eagles; and the New York Giants as a whole might be even more bruised and beaten up than Eli Manning's shoulder.

Still, Green Bay is reminding us that parity is as prominent in the league as commissioner Roger Goodell's tendency to hand out punishments. And on any given Sunday, Favre easily looks like one of the 10 best quarterbacks in the league.

Favre, who hadn't thrown three touchdown passes in a game since Week 3 of last season, tossed three scoring passes in the win over New York to pull within four of breaking Dan Marino's career record (420).

But it's not just records – he surpassed John Elway for most wins by a quarterback by getting his 149th on Sunday – or the 2-0 start that's making me believe the Packers are better off that he opted to return for his 17th season.

The Packers have the longest winning streak (six) in the NFC going back to last season. And whether it’s a veteran such as Donald Driver (73 yards, one touchdown against the Giants) or a rookie like Mason Crosby (three field goals against the Eagles), folks other than No. 4 are making an impact.

But again, the season is incredibly early and the Packers will be tested over the next five contests – including home games against the San Diego Chargers and Chicago Bears, and a road trip to face the Denver Broncos.

At this stage, I'll probably hold off on planning for Favre's retirement until he actually makes the announcement.

GO PACK GO !!

[HarveyWallbangers]

I still see a solid QB in Brett Favre but sadly I believe that those in real power see about $12 million dollars of CAP money.

Yep. The cap space has nothing to do with maintaining a healthy cap for future years--instead the owners of the Packers (and maybe Thompson himself) are trying to figure out a way to divy up that $12M in cap space as we speak.

[MJZiggy]

Nice article, but Buck, I have no idea what you're talking about. The team has won 6 in a row. Favre is kinda happy about that. He seems to kinda like this team. Maybe you should stop trying to fight a battle for him that he's not even fighting.

[The Leaper]

Favre isn't a drain on the cap, and he's not about to retire any time soon. Bank it.

Favre's 149 wins really were put into comparison for me last night when they showed that McNabb was merely starting (let alone winning) his 100th game last night. If Favre can push that record up over 160 wins (10 wins a year for 16 years!) it may be more unapproachable than his consecutive start streak.

[woodbuck27]

I still see a solid QB in Brett Favre but sadly I believe that those in real power see about $12 million dollars of CAP money.

Yep. The cap space has nothing to do with maintaining a healthy cap for future years--instead the owners of the Packers (and maybe Thompson himself) are trying to figure out a way to divy up that $12M in cap space as we speak.

Instead of sarcasm (if that's what I see here Harvey?) why not try some straight up dialogue.

That is the correct way, and only respectful results stem fr. such dialogue.

I'm sometimes guilty of sarcasm myself :) but when I go there I shed only arrogance on myself.

I believe that Favre again was treated with an obvious lack of support and that can only reflect on one thing.

To discourage him. I see mjziggy has a response up too, and as usual she has the ability to take a positive to shunt around the issue of my complaint. That is a practised skill that might be useful in a courtroom but we are simple Packer fans here.

Intelligence is beast utilized for the purposes of good and truthful intent; not to establish a practise of one upmanship and superiority brought on by arrogance or implied ignorance.

You do believe that you are smarter than most here right Harvey?

Then if that is the case how can you just sit back and wait and wait some more and not see the suffering we feel at what is obvious to us.

That being that the management is doing all it can in it's power to incapacitate Brett Favre. If the house once came complete with a wonderful chimney of selected stones just about all that remains is that wonderful chimney.

You are the NFL FOOTBALL GENIOUS HARVEY AND WILL SOMEHOW MANAGE TO GIVE A THUMBS UP OR DOWN TO ANY SUGGESTED TRANSACTION THAT MAY GIVE OUR TEAM MORE.

Most times it's a thumbs down. I have seen that over nearly two years now. Sometimes it seem that you post for our GM. That you exhibit the same ultra Conservative and money pinching approach thatb is all Ted thompson.

I'm a Conservative as well but I'm a Progressive Conservative. I have the mind of a conservative but the heart of a liberal.I know how to maintain anything I must own with pride. If you tear it down then you have to build it back so that at least the structure is functional in terms of some time frame.

The time to replace the parts was before TC this year to set for the 2007 schedule.Everyone here were well aware of our need to compete in 2007. We all knew that we had needs at RB,and FB and maybe at TE. Our GM completely ignored these positions.

mjziggy is reading this and exclaiming what in hell is his point.We are 2-0 and looking good so far. My response to that is nuts !!!!

How bad are Philly and the Giants? We did little to get better and virtually nothing to help Favre and we have seen one solid half of football fr. our offense in two games Vs teams that may be even weaker than us.

That is all we have. We will see what we really are as a team over the next thre games and soon after the bye week.

Winning two games has got nothing to do with management ignoring our needs on offense. I believe there is one agenda in place because that was ignored and that is to discourage Favre and that is stupid because he won't go away.

If you take that as a given then TT should have served our needs not completely ignored them and used rhetoric to wash his inactivity aside.

[Zool]

Your anti-TT venom is too much sometimes Woodroe, and I think thats turns a lot of people off to your discussion threads. No one would specifically sabotage their team to eliminate a player, but you keep up on that angle.

[woodbuck27]

Nice article, but Buck, I have no idea what you're talking about. The team has won 6 in a row. Favre is kinda happy about that. He seems to kinda like this team. Maybe you should stop trying to fight a battle for him that he's not even fighting.

Favre isn't fighting today but wait to reality sets in.

Life seems so rosy in Packer land and of course we all hope that continues; but the car that's the Packer team, needed proper spare parts installed and the owner of the car can't do more than scratch his ass (excuse the expression as I know your very much 'the Lady' mj and embarass easily, but if your going to swing with the boys to men then that comes with the yard.) :) Compasa??

He has chosen to take a long trip and only get something done if the car breaks down enroute. That (he) is of course Ted Thompson in my analogy.

[BallHawk]

I enjoy you as a poster, Woody, but a lot of your stuff lately has really gone over the top. I understand you aren't a TT fan, but it's getting to the point where its repetitive. It's almost as if before I read the post I know what it is going to say. You're entitled to your opinion, but you're kinda bashing everyone over the head with it.

We're 2-0 Buck, relax and enjoy it. :glug:

[Deputy Nutz]

The time to replace the parts was before TC this year to set for the 2007 schedule.Everyone here were well aware of our need to compete in 2007. We all knew that we had needs at RB,and FB and maybe at TE. Our GM completely ignored these positions.

mjziggy is reading this and exclaiming what in hell is his point.We are 2-0 and looking good so far. My response to that is nuts !!!!

How bad are Philly and the Giants? We did little to get better and virtually nothing to help Favre and we have seen one solid half of football fr. our offense in two games Vs teams that may be even weaker than us.

That is all we have. We will see what we really are as a team over the next thre games and soon after the bye week.

Winning two games has got nothing to do with management ignoring our needs on offense. I believe there is one agenda in place because that was ignored and that is to discourage Favre and that is stupid because he won't go away.

You know what this tells me Woodbuck? The Packers have gotten better than two playoff teams from last year. Now I don't know if that is because of Thompson or what, but some teams go up and other go down. The Packers are at least climbing the ladder past New York and Philly. Write that Down.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Lighten up, Francis! We're 2-0, so enjoy it. We aren't going to go 19-0, so there will be ample time for you to continue your Thompson bashing.

[woodbuck27]

Your anti-TT venom is too much sometimes Woodroe, and I think thats turns a lot of people off to your discussion threads. No one would specifically sabotage their team to eliminate a player, but you keep up on that angle.

Because I believe I'm correct.

There is far too much evidence to support my observation now and I don't give a DAM who I turn off as I exercise my freedoms with proper manners and comportment.

I have never felt the need to suck up to any clique of people that stress the need to be just this or that way. I exercise my ability to use the gifts I'm blessed with to serve TRUTH.

Nothing else ever works my fellow Packer fans.

I use my intelligence and ability to observe, analyze and serve the TRUTH from a standpoint of pure consciounce. I dare say that few in this Packer home are any more fair and open as I am.

I represent the other point of view and if I'm a member of the minority in that respect that doesn't annoy or otherwise bother me. I really believe my stance is supported and honest. I also believe that more here will stand beside me or me stand beside them as the shame that is on us comes closer to be revealed.

Thyere are few here that would have exercised the duty of GM as he didn't this off season; it's too obvious why he ignored our needs.

He wants Favre to RETIRE ASAP.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Because I believe I'm correct.

Which is why you are unable to enjoy a 2-0 start to the season. We haven't been 2-0 in a season since 2001. SIX YEARS!

[Badgepack]

I myself would rather see this home grown football team suceed rather than a store bought team. A prime example is how cool is it that the Brewers are a contending team as are the New York Yankees. Sure, I'd take a Superbowl title with big name free agents, but we don't have them and this bunch of no-names are doing pretty well so far, and I think that's just great.

Also it's the Green Bay Packers, not the Brett Favre Packers, and keep in mind that I am the biggest Favre fan that there is.

[Lurker64]

Because I believe I'm correct.

There's a significant difference between "I believe I am correct" and "I cannot possibly imagine a universe in which I am wrong." We all believe we're right, but you seem to exhibit a lot more of the latter than most folks around here.

[woodbuck27]

The time to replace the parts was before TC this year to set for the 2007 schedule.Everyone here were well aware of our need to compete in 2007. We all knew that we had needs at RB,and FB and maybe at TE. Our GM completely ignored these positions.

mjziggy is reading this and exclaiming what in hell is his point.We are 2-0 and looking good so far. My response to that is nuts !!!!

How bad are Philly and the Giants? We did little to get better and virtually nothing to help Favre and we have seen one solid half of football fr. our offense in two games Vs teams that may be even weaker than us.

That is all we have. We will see what we really are as a team over the next thre games and soon after the bye week.

Winning two games has got nothing to do with management ignoring our needs on offense. I believe there is one agenda in place because that was ignored and that is to discourage Favre and that is stupid because he won't go away.

You know what this tells me Woodbuck? The Packers have gotten better than two playoff teams from last year. Now I don't know if that is because of Thompson or what, but some teams go up and other go down. The Packers are at least climbing the ladder past New York and Philly. Write that Down.

Hi Nutz:

I'm puzzled over what is going on in Philly not so with the Giants.

The Giants lost a ral contributor at RB in Tikki Barber and the issues with Coach T. Coughlan seem to be continuing there as he struggles to get the team out of the muck.

I picked the Packers to lose the opener and defeat the Giants (before the schedule began) but the way the 'O' didn't perform in the surprize win over the Eagles I really wasn't sure we could even defeat the Giants. Ten first downs Vs Eagles is worse than really bad. :) Five sacks on Favre said NO OL.

I loved those wins but I'm nort convinced that we are for real yet and I ask myself how could we be when TT did DICK ALL to help us this off season on offense.

If he had any sense of the offense and after losing Ahman Green he had to get out of his chair and ensure that such talent was replaced.Any move even if it failed reflect better on TT than doing nothing.

He sat on his ass. Plain and simple. That is all too obvious for even the staunchest Ted Thompson supporters to deny and not embarass themselves.

I won't allow myself to be deluded by a 2-0 start as nice as that is. As good a start that gives us to possibly jell and gain a playoff spot. Gaud we only played two good quarters out of eight in those two games as far as our offense is concerned.

Because. . .I get right there, and whammo it gets back to:

Nothing added to. . . well that part (that lost that part) and that part wasn't replaced so. . . it all should fall down.

He sat on his ass. Plain and simple.

[PackerBlues]

I think your comparison of the team and what has been done to make it better, and a car going on a long road trip is spot on Woodbuck. Seeing that 12 million in cap room is a real bite in the ass when added to what we are seeing from Randy Moss, who Thompson "thought he had a deal in place with".


At the same time though, I am starting to lean towards jumping onto the Thompson bandwagon simply because I do see so much potential in this team. Granted, even if this Packer team does make the playoffs, I have no doubt that it will get creamed early on in the Playoffs.


My biggest gripe is the cap room that we have, and the lack of talent on Offense. Not a damned thing that we can do about it, other than let Thompson and those that support him know that we are not happy about it. Sadly, those complaints will fall on deaf ears here in these forums........until the injury bug hits, ( :bang: :bang: knock on wood) most people are content with what we have.

The only way I could be truly happy with what we have, is if Favre promises to play for another year beyond this one. In my honest opinion, this team is close, really close to being one of the best teams in the league.

[Him8123]

this is a bunch of blah blah B.S. I must have missed the memo on the battle that Favre and the packers are having. I thought it was against other teams not themselves. What battle? a young 2-0 and improving what does anyone in the packers org. have to be battling about? I never saw anyone disrespect Favre.

[Brainerd]

He wants Favre to RETIRE ASAP.

No. What he wanted was Favre reigned in and I think he has achieved that. TT has had multiple opportunities to get rid of Favre over the past few years given to him by Favre himself and has consistently resisted the temptation.

[Lurker64]

I think your comparison of the team and what has been done to make it better, and a car going on a long road trip is spot on Woodbuck. Seeing that 12 million in cap room is a real bite in the ass when added to what we are seeing from Randy Moss, who Thompson "thought he had a deal in place with".

I remember seeing a figure recently that there are actually several teams with about as much cap space as we do, including a few teams that look to contend this year (I can't find the figures, if anybody else can I'd appreciate it.) As I've come to understand it, the current leading theory among many capologists is that you don't spend all the present cap to build the present team, you save a chunk of it to protect the future cap. The key is flexibility, since if you spend the remainder of your cap money by the end of the year restructuring or extending contracts in ways that result in minimal future cap hits, you're basically buying yourself more cap room in the future and hence more flexibility.

I have no doubt that Thompson is eventually going to spend that money, I just think that he's likely going to spend it on things like "restructuring KGB's contract" and "extending Corey Williams", instead of picking up whatever might be available in free agency.

I can only hope that this sort of plan eventually does pay off (for us, I don't care about the other teams doing it) when there are eventually free agent difference makers that we're able to outbid other folks on. I'm personally of the mind that if Tony Gonzales had made it to free agency this year, that Thompson probably would have thrown together a substantial offer. He didn't, so you might as well save that money for the next time a comparable player is available.

[woodbuck27]

I think your comparison of the team and what has been done to make it better, and a car going on a long road trip is spot on Woodbuck. Seeing that 12 million in cap room is a real bite in the ass when added to what we are seeing from Randy Moss, who Thompson "thought he had a deal in place with".


At the same time though, I am starting to lean towards jumping onto the Thompson bandwagon simply because I do see so much potential in this team. Granted, even if this Packer team does make the playoffs, I have no doubt that it will get creamed early on in the Playoffs.


My biggest gripe is the cap room that we have, and the lack of talent on Offense. Not a damned thing that we can do about it, other than let Thompson and those that support him know that we are not happy about it. Sadly, those complaints will fall on deaf ears here in these forums........until the injury bug hits, ( :bang: :bang: knock on wood) most people are content with what we have.

The only way I could be truly happy with what we have. Is if Favre promises to play for another year beyond this one. In my honest opinion, this team is close, really close to being one of the best teams in the league.

Hey Packer fan don't leave the ship.

YOU have been 100% bang on right up the middle of the lane and smack in for a strike correct in your passion for the Packer team and Favre and our future as long as we go on with Ted Thompson's incompetence that I believe isn't rally his fault.

He must serve his master.

It's so very real to me and I have had to be so patient as I watch the same crappy style of managing from him. He has treated Brett Favre with horrid disrespect and every Packer fan that chooses to turn away from that fact must not come from the same way or neck of the woods as I have.

I was raised to see and call a spade a spade. To never shirk from people that lean to the weaker side or pretend all's just rosy or swell.Too many people want to be a part of the main group, to belong and they get lost in just that too often.

Then there are the delusions that many suffer and in their blindmness really arn't aware that they are deluded.

Then there are the propogandidists that will tell you that that orange your seeing is an apple.These people are the most challenging, and well, certainly frustrating to me as a simple human being to hopes for the best outcomes.

This forum has many that are just that. It's a lot more that different strokes for different folks for me when it comes to the Packers and mu support of Favre. One member here defcided a week or so ago to paint me as just about Favre and DD.

What a load of horseshit. I didn't even waist my time in response to such ignorance.

I am all the way into this now with any Packer fan that realizes the TRUTHand our need to have a GM that is active in securing a stronger team for us the Packer fan rather than being a super acountant with the same4 personality of most I've viewed in that field.Poor souls that they appear.

Now I'm sure that there are some really cool acountants but where are they hiding? :)

Favre isn't going to change and neither is Ted Thompson.That's the dilemma I see as a Packer fan and I support Favre. I support the team and the teams players as I'm a blue collar sort of guy and I can't escape that.

Favre wants to win and TT wants to win soon without the expese of Favre and the sad part is that Aaron rodgers if and when he treplaces Favre will earn what about $7 million and that's about $% Million less than Brett that has never scalded the packer Organization over money.

WE are winning and how much more easily we coulkd be behing our team in a real sense if TT had given into our needs and supported Favre's will to win that will go on no matter what.He's die on the football field trying for the win. Thompson obviously didn't want to give him any more incentive to play beyond 2007.

That is too clear and intelligent people here will deny and remain in denial of that obvious fact.

[woodbuck27]

Those people will be pleased to know I have to go now. :)

GO PACK GO !

[MJZiggy]

this is a bunch of blah blah B.S. I must have missed the memo on the battle that Favre and the packers are having. I thought it was against other teams not themselves. What battle? a young 2-0 and improving what does anyone in the packers org. have to be battling about? I never saw anyone disrespect Favre.

Well said, but Woodbuck'll never buy it. Because Favre likes these kids. TT didn't buy them for him so the fact that Favre himself likes them is not good enough for Buck.

[BallHawk]

Woody, what I'm finding frustrating is that you're not really discussing your opinion, you're telling us that you are right and everybody else that doesn't agree with you is wrong. I know you could care less what other people think, but would it kill ya to be a little less.....arrogant?

[HarveyWallbangers]

:beat: <-- Woody

[RashanGary]

I respect Woodbuck for standing up for his opinion at the hardest possible time. Too many people give up and flip flop, pretending like they were on ship the whole time.

That said, you are becoming irrelivant Woodbuck :)

Go Brett!! Go TT!! Go Packers!!

[PackerBlues]

It's all good Woody, I have never backed down from a fight, and I probably never will. I have fought guys who outweighed me by over a hundred pounds, and taken on as many as 3 guys at once (got my ass kicked quite handily too, lol :oops: ), but there is really no fight here anymore.


Whats done is done, we cannot get Moss. Green is gone. By now the argument that there is nobody worth bringing in, is actually true, as opposed to when that argument was first raised, and there actually was a few guys worth bringing in.


Like it or not, the season has started, and we have what we have. I am not giving up on the fact that I think that Thompson shorted our Offense, because I still think that he did. However the team is set, and I LOVE the Packers. This group of young players is our team now, and they have my full support.

For anyone to think that I have given up on wanting more for this team, just wait until next offseason :twisted: , cause if you thought that I was unbearable during the last offseason, lol............

[RashanGary]

For anyone to think that I have given up on wanting more for this team, just wait until next offseason :twisted: , cause if you thought that I was unbearable during the last offseason, lol............

Wait until next year?

Why, are you going to bitch and complain all off season only to see Ted Thompsons Packers come back stronger than you ever thought possible, AGAIN? haha, just playin. I'm a TT supporter. I'll play the trash talking game just like the haters :)

[PackerBlues]

Wait until next year?

Why, are you going to bitch and complain all off season only to see Ted Thompsons Packers come back stronger than you ever thought possible, AGAIN? haha,..........

heh heh........ we can only hope JH. :D

[Deputy Nutz]

PB is making sense, Woodbuck, well he has never made sense and although I like the guy I can't read his posts, Half way through I think he is supporting this or that, and then when I get to the end of the post Woodbuck does a 180 on me and I am left with ???? What the fuck does this guy really mean?

I finally understood that he doesn't enjoy Ted Thompson 2 hours ago.

[MJZiggy]

PB is making sense, Woodbuck, well he has never made sense and although I like the guy I can't read his posts, Half way through I think he is supporting this or that, and then when I get to the end of the post Woodbuck does a 180 on me and I am left with ???? What the fuck does this guy really mean?

I finally understood that he doesn't enjoy Ted Thompson 2 hours ago.

The beans in the ass and the piss in the shorts didn't make it clear to you?? :lol: :lol: (just remember, he said it, not me.)

[Brohm]

Look! Black helicopters overhead! :shock: :P

[PackerBlues]

I finally understood that he doesn't enjoy Ted Thompson 2 hours ago.

The beans in the ass and the piss in the shorts didn't make it clear to you?? :lol: :lol: (just remember, he said it, not me.)

Shit.......Now I am confused!!! Beans? Pissy shorts? Is this like the car on a long road trip analogy? :wink:

[The Shadow]

"........and not see the suffering we feel at what is obvious to us. "


2-0?
We feel your pain.

[MasonCrosby]

i really don't think thompson is trying to push out favre. my own personal view of thompson's plan aside, i think he is trying to set up a good young team so that when the inevitable happens, we don't completely tank and whoever the qb might be will have a good team with them.

[Lurker64]

i really don't think thompson is trying to push out favre. my own personal view of thompson's plan aside, i think he is trying to set up a good young team so that when the inevitable happens, we don't go completely tank and whoever the qb might be will have a good team with them.

I am glad that someone other than me sees the TRUTH

(Maybe if I put it in large, bold, underlined caps and refuse to justify my assertions, people will agree and understand.)

[MJZiggy]

I finally understood that he doesn't enjoy Ted Thompson 2 hours ago.

The beans in the ass and the piss in the shorts didn't make it clear to you?? :lol: :lol: (just remember, he said it, not me.)

Shit.......Now I am confused!!! Beans? Pissy shorts? Is this like the car on a long road trip analogy? :wink:

I was just referring back to a couple of Bucks more colorful phrases from this week...I'm sure you'll run into them soon enough.

[Scott Campbell]

I see. So in summary, Woody hates Ted?

[superfan]

I believe that NFL players, experts and media and NFL fans are looking at Green Bay, shaking their collective heads and wondering what in the name of Sam Cade is going on.

I totally agree with this statement, although not in the manner in which I think you intended. The resurgence of this team is exceeding a lot of expectations and catching those who know little about the team other than the results of the last two years by surprise. We are beginning to see quite a few "I think the Packers may be for real" types of comments from the national media.


I will wonder what might it have been if Brett Favre got more support.

Same here. Just think if Favre had a Harrison/Wayne combo to throw to all these years. Or Lofton/Jefferson or Sharpe/Brooks. These records would have been history long ago.


The sad truth will be that Favre won't be able to go on playing as we witnessed in the second half Vs the Giants unless the Packer players somehow really respect and rally around his leadership and skills.

Are you under the impression that he isn't respected? From everything I've seen and read, Favre is one of the most respected players in football, both from his own teammates and the rest of the league. He is probably one of the most respected players of all time.


I still see a solid QB in Brett Favre but sadly I believe that those in real power see about $12 million dollars of CAP money.

I'm sure those in power see both a solid QB in Favre and $12 mil in cap money invested in him. That's their job, to evaluate both performance on the field, and manage salaries.


Too bad they don't realize that he has earned that salary and he gives all he can under very difficult circumstances to serve the Packer team and its fans with his experience and talents.

He is the unquestioned face of the franchise, and perhaps the greatest player ever for one of the most successful, storied franchises in the history of the game, with some of the greatest players in the history of the game. He will probably have his own wing in the Packer Hall of Fame after he retires (some exaggeration here), will hold many all time records, and is a shoo in first ballot NFL Hall of Famer.

Packer fans know this, national media knows this, casual football fans and even those that barely follow football know this. How is it conceivable that "they", meaning those in power, don't realize this? What evidence is there that they don't?


The one thing that those who let him down didn't count on was that he wants to win and he loves the game still and is loyal to Green Bay fans.

So those who let him down (not even sure who that is) were banking on assumptions that he doesn't want to win, doesn't still love the game, and isn't loyal to Green Bay fans? This concept is so absurd I don't even know what to say. That goes against everything Favre has been since he became a Packer.

I respect everyone's right to their own opinion. If you want to voice your opinion that Thompson and others are ruining the team and pushing Favre to retirement, that's fine. I'll even agree that there have been some questionable moves made, particularly the lack of any tangible additions to the team this last offseason. But I just don't see the basis for some of this "evidence", and I have issue with opinions that are stated as fact.

[PackerBlues]

I believe that NFL players, experts and media and NFL fans are looking at Green Bay, shaking their collective heads and wondering what in the name of Sam Cade is going on.


I totally agree with this statement, although not in the manner in which I think you intended. The resurgence of this team is exceeding a lot of expectations and catching those who know little about the team other than the results of the last two years by surprise. We are beginning to see quite a few "I think the Packers may be for real" types of comments from the national media.

I think that you both may be right here. While the media's reaction to this team and Brett Favre remind me of the 1996-1997 season, none of them are sure yet if this team has turned the corner. So while some in the media still use Favre bashing in a manner to get their "15 minutes of fame", others in the "more respected" (:roll: )media are more cautious in how they talk about this Packers team, because they just do not know yet. To them, it is obvious that our Defense is pretty damned good (barring injuries to key players), that our special teams has played exceptionally well, and that Favre is still one of the best QB's playing the game. However, the questions we have on Offense still has everyone wondering, and nobody wants to go out on a limb just yet and claim that the Packers have in fact turned the corner, or if the teams that they have beaten so far could be beaten by nearly any other team in the NFL. It is just too early to tell.


I will wonder what might have been if Brett Favre got more support.


Same here. Just think if Favre had a Harrison/Wayne combo to throw to all these years. Or Lofton/Jefferson or Sharpe/Brooks. These records would have been history long ago.

Agreed, but I will go a step further in agreeing with WoodBuck. Moss should be wearing a Packer uniform. Teamed with Driver, Jennings, and perhaps Jones, our Offense would have been unstoppable even with the questions at RB. In the same way that I make that bold prediction, others can also claim that Moss would not have worked out in GB for whatever reason. It really does not matter this year because we do not have Moss, or any other veteran receiver on our team other than Driver. This is something that I do in fact fault Thompson for, but we have to have faith in him, just as much as we do in Favre and M3. These are the cards we have been dealt this season, and this is the team we are cheering for. Next offseason, I will be one of the loudest voices screaming for a veteran playmaker to be added to the Offense........ again.


The sad truth will be that Favre won't be able to go on playing as we witnessed in the second half Vs the Giants unless the Packer players somehow really respect and rally around his leadership and skills.


Are you under the impression that he isn't respected? From everything I've seen and read, Favre is one of the most respected players in football, both from his own teammates and the rest of the league. He is probably one of the most respected players of all time.

I do not want to read into anything here, but I think what Woody may be alluding to here is that the young guys on Offense are going to have to give a "Kampman-like" effort all season long to keep up with Favre in order for this Offense to produce against the top teams in the league. At this point, the Packers are 2-0, but with the parity in this league, and looking at teams like NE, I do not think anyone who states that the Packers are playoff bound, will be taken seriously until they beat one of the better teams in the league........such as SanDiego maybe, lol. This weeks game will be the deciding factor for many in the media, and we will start to hear bolder opinions about the Packers after this week, that I can promise you!!!


I still see a solid QB in Brett Favre but sadly I believe that those in real power see about $12 million dollars of CAP money.


I'm sure those in power see both a solid QB in Favre and $12 mil in cap money invested in him. That's their job, to evaluate both performance on the field, and manage salaries.

I can see where Woody is coming from, but I agree with Superfan here. Thompson is not star struck by Favre, and as such, he only sees Brett Favre as just another player on the team. No more important than any other player on the team. While many (myself included) think that Thompson should have done more to try to send Favre off with a bang, Thompsons first loyalty is to the team as a whole. If Favre is to benefit from what Thompson is doing with this team, he is going to have to stick around for another year or more. Again, next offseason, I will be one of the loudest voices screaming for more help on Offense. My hope is that Moss becomes an unrestricted free agent, and Thompson shells out the cake to get him signed for two to three years..........as long as Favre sticks around to benefit from such a signing. Otherwise, Rogers can make due with what he has on Offense with the help of a more improved Defense. (for all I care)


Too bad they don't realize that he has earned that salary and he gives all he can under very difficult circumstances to serve the Packer team and its fans with his experience and talents.


He is the unquestioned face of the franchise, and perhaps the greatest player ever for one of the most successful, storied franchises in the history of the game, with some of the greatest players in the history of the game. He will probably have his own wing in the Packer Hall of Fame after he retires (some exaggeration here), will hold many all time records, and is a shoo in first ballot NFL Hall of Famer.

Packer fans know this, national media knows this, casual football fans and even those that barely follow football know this. How is it conceivable that "they", meaning those in power, don't realize this? What evidence is there that they don't?

Again, I can see where Woody is coming from here, but simply put, again, Thompsons first loyalty is to the team. He knows how much Favre means to GB, and the state of Wisconsin, and the NFL, but that is not going to change the way that he tries to better this Packer team. The only way that Favre is going to benefit from Thompsons work, is by taking this team all the way this year (not likely), or, he has to stick around until Thompson manages to get "all the pieces in place". I do not like it, but that is because I am impatient. Just like many others, the salary cap room not being used is a sign to me, that more could have been done. :beat: :bang: :huh:



The one thing that those who let him down didn't count on was that he wants to win and he loves the game still and is loyal to Green Bay fans.


So those who let him down (not even sure who that is) were banking on assumptions that he doesn't want to win, doesn't still love the game, and isn't loyal to Green Bay fans? This concept is so absurd I don't even know what to say. That goes against everything Favre has been since he became a Packer.

I respect everyone's right to their own opinion. If you want to voice your opinion that Thompson and others are ruining the team and pushing Favre to retirement, that's fine. I'll even agree that there have been some questionable moves made, particularly the lack of any tangible additions to the team this last offseason. But I just don't see the basis for some of this "evidence", and I have issue with opinions that are stated as fact.

This is a point that many loyal to Favre, including myself have a tough time with. I would word it a little differently by saying that Thompson and anyone above him helping in the decision making, has/have been looking beyond Favre in the "rebuilding" of this team. Statements from Thompson, claiming that we are not in a rebuilding process, come across as complete and total [BULLSHIT!!!!!!!

To anyone who has been paying any attention at all, this team has been rebuilding. (Sorry, but here is where emotion takes over :oops: )

The thing that bothers most people who are loyal to Favre, is the bullshit coming from Thompson's mouth from day one. It has been said that he cannot necessarily come right out and say that he is in fact rebuilding, and why, because it would scare away potential free agents? lol. What fucking potential free agents??? (ask Bretsky about this one, and imagine the veins popping out as he has a coniption, lol) This is not something that you keep a poker face about to keep people from noticing, lol, so for Thompson to claim that we are not rebuilding, is laughable........to those that can find humor in it anyway.

Another famous quote from Thompson: "I want to win now!" (not the exact wording, but none the less.....) If Thompson was building this team to win NOW, Moss would have been signed, and we would not have heard shit like "I went to bed that night thinking that we had a deal in place with Moss". Holy shit man, cut the BullShit!!!

Simply put, there are always going to be people upset by the fact that no veterans were added to our Offense to at least give the appearance that Thompson cared enough to try to make it better. While it may just come off as beating a dead horse to some, I fully understand that point of view, and will always defend anyone taking a stand on that point of view.

[cpk1994]

i really don't think thompson is trying to push out favre. my own personal view of thompson's plan aside, i think he is trying to set up a good young team so that when the inevitable happens, we don't completely tank and whoever the qb might be will have a good team with them.DING DING DING. We have a winner!

[Zool]

Your anti-TT venom is too much sometimes Woodroe, and I think thats turns a lot of people off to your discussion threads. No one would specifically sabotage their team to eliminate a player, but you keep up on that angle.

Because I believe I'm correct.

There is far too much evidence to support my observation now and I don't give a DAM who I turn off as I exercise my freedoms with proper manners and comportment.

I have never felt the need to suck up to any clique of people that stress the need to be just this or that way. I exercise my ability to use the gifts I'm blessed with to serve TRUTH.

Nothing else ever works my fellow Packer fans.

I use my intelligence and ability to observe, analyze and serve the TRUTH from a standpoint of pure consciounce. I dare say that few in this Packer home are any more fair and open as I am.

I represent the other point of view and if I'm a member of the minority in that respect that doesn't annoy or otherwise bother me. I really believe my stance is supported and honest. I also believe that more here will stand beside me or me stand beside them as the shame that is on us comes closer to be revealed.

Thyere are few here that would have exercised the duty of GM as he didn't this off season; it's too obvious why he ignored our needs.

He wants Favre to RETIRE ASAP.

All of this is well within your rights, but its also well within everyone else's rights to respond in whatever matter they see fit. You specfically called Harvey out for his sarcastic remarks when he was saying what he think is right.

To say TT wants Favre to retire is a plausible argument, but to say he's specifically NOT picking up offensive talent to facilitate this is my only problem with your argument. If he has no O talent now, then he would still have no O talent when Favre retired.

Do you think he thinks Aaron Rodgers is the next Favre or Elway and wont need talent around him to win? The argument makes no sense to me. I realize I can never convince you otherwise, but thats my stance.

There's no way he wants the face of the franchise to retire. Like it or not, the NFL is a money driven league and Favre draws crowds on the road and prime time spots on TV. He sells apparel. If Mr Thompson wanted that gone then he would be gone. If this team starts to lose money and go to the lower half of the league in money standings, it will be because of the product on the field and that will fall down to TT.

[Packnut]

Just remember Woody, a lot of the same guys who claim Teddy can do wrong are the same guys who claimed our O line would be vastly improved, Morency would be a good solid starter and our run game would be fine.

How did that work out for em? :roll:

[Packnut]

And as I re-call, a few of them also told us how the Patriot's were wasting money in free agency and blah-blah-blah. You could write a book on how wrong SOME people have been........

[Zool]

It would be on the worst sellers list for weeks and weeks.

[HarveyWallbangers]

You could write a book on how wrong SOME people have been........

Chapter 1?

http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=8163&highlight=packnut


http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=72353&highlight=#72353
I hope those few TT backers out there see the light. This guy is brutal from his coaching choice to player evaluating. There is not 1 damn thing that TT is good at as a GM.

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=71952&highlight=#71952
Well after watching parts of all today's games, we can honestly start debating who our #1 pick should be next season… I've watched the other teams who are in the running for the #1 pick. Buffalo, NYJ and even the Niners are way ahead of us talent and coaching wise. …There really is'nt gonna be anything else to discuss Packer wise this season so why not try something positive? Now things can change but IF Green stays healthy and shows he can be our #1 back next season, then we gotta go with Mr Irish. Brady has the potential to be the next Brett Favre. Now if Green can't handle it then we gotta go RB and there will be a bunch to choose from. Ok, let the great debate begin!

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=74942&highlight=#74942
Where will the Pack pick [in the 2007 draft]?
Packnut: Top 3.

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=73719&highlight=#73719
It's gonna take some time and it will be very painfull, but after we are embarrassed week in and week out and as the losses pile up, most of the "optimists" will realize that TT has set this team back more than Sherman ever did.

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=73480&highlight=#73480
Woodson has to GO. NOW! SEND A MESSAGE
Packnut: Good post and very accurate.

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=73309&highlight=#73309
The fact that any of you would defend this guy after yesterday is mind-boggling to say the least. It's one thing to get beat by Heap or Shockey but when you get beat by the worst TE in the game, you have more problems than just technique.

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=75773&highlight=#75773
No my arguement is that he is not TALENTED enough to build a winning team and I believe the FACTS to date prove it.

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=75761&highlight=#75761
Your faith in the drafting talents of TT amaze me. He has done NOTHING to even give a glimmer of hope. If you think stock-piling high draft choices is the answer, then you don't have a clue. Several teams have gone that route with no success. A GM need's to be able to bring in the right FA's and mix them in with the youth and I'd say there has been enough evidence to point out that TT is lacking in player evaluation skills.

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=78661&highlight=#78661
This season will continue to suck and going 3-13 should'nt be a shock to anyone.

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=87783&highlight=#87783
Cleaning house and going young has been tried before and it does'nt work. You need the right mix of vets and we have a GM that sucks at player evaluation. Yep, Woodson sure is worth all that cash. Yet, some will say TT is going in the right direction. There are several of the younger fans in this forum who have no concept of the 70's and 80's and sadly they are going to find out. They will understand how one bad choice has a snowball effect. I just don't see this "future hope" that they have. This team has so many holes, that it's just pathetic......

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=87311&highlight=#87311
Well may-be by the end of the season, many of you TT supporters will open your eyes and see that this guy has DESTROYED this franchise. He makes Dan Devine look smart. Let's see now, how many mistakes has he made with player moves? Every week it's the same line from MM- "we gotts get it fixed". He does'nt have a clue. Sherman was a much better coach than this clown will ever be and I never thought I'd say that. TT states he hired MM because of the man and not the x's and o's. Gee, does'nt that tell you something about him? Well at least he's honest cause MM does'nt know shit about x's and o's on either side of the ball.

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=88594&highlight=#88594
This team is so far away from being competitive that it's pathetic.

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=93449&highlight=#93449
I would love to buy the we're improving BS but the facts say that so far, TT has not improved us in even 1 area. … What happens IF we end up with a worse record than last season? Are you still gonna tell us we're improving under TT?????????????????????????

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=92923&highlight=#92923
The cap excuse has been worn to death by the TT supporters when in reality there were ways. TT is a freaking moron.

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=97560&highlight=#97560
Pope is a HUGE upgrade over Herron. Good move by TT even if I was the first here to suggest it back in pre-season. Better late than never!

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=96912&highlight=#96912
The sad part is that we are so far away from even having a competitive D that it's depressing. Where is this improvment on D gonna come from? A lot of questions with few answers...........

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=101950&highlight=#101950
I think it all depends on what Thompson does. If he puts this team out on the field , then we'll be lucky to win 5 games.

[Scott Campbell]

Just remember Woody, a lot of the same guys who claim Teddy can do wrong are the same guys who claimed our O line would be vastly improved, Morency would be a good solid starter and our run game would be fine.

How did that work out for em? :roll:



Thus far, 2-0.

[Scott Campbell]

You could write a book on how wrong SOME people have been........

Chapter 1?

ROFL

[Zool]

If you were a girl Harvey, i would totally make out with you.

[Joemailman]

Sometimes, when you take shots at others...

http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/violent012.gif