Vince Young and Jason Campbell respond to Mcnabb

[Him8123]

Said VY: ""That is his opinion. I really feel like myself, black or white quarterbacks, we all go through something because that is the life of a quarterback,'' Young said Wednesday. "You have to be able to handle all the pressure and you have to be able to handle the losses and you have to be able to handle the media saying this about you. "If you can't handle it, then you have to get off that position and go play something else.'' Well said.

Said Campbell:""Early in my career in college, I felt like people looked at me differently and expected a lot more," said Campbell, the Washington Redskins' starter since November. "I felt I had to do a little extra. At that point, I did feel that way. I don't feel that way now in the NFL."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20070920/SPORTS0 1/109200097/1005/SPORTS
Visit Source: http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/....

[mraynrand]

I like Campbell's answer for the following reason: He says he felt like he had to do more in college. It's a good neutral position in the sense that that was the way he reacted to the situation, regardlss of whether the pressure was external or internal. It doesn't accuse anyone of racism, but still allows for the likely possibility that some racism still exists and that may have brought extra pressure to bear on him. McNabb's position was basically to blame others, whether they were guilty or not.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It doesn't accuse anyone of racism, but still allows for the likely possibility that some racism still exists and that may have brought extra pressure to bear on him.

You are really splitting hairs.

I haven't read all of McNabb's quotes, just responding to bits and pieces I heard. I doubt that McNabb & Campbell have a spit's worth of difference in their opinions, even if Campbell was a little more guarded.

I will check out the facts (for a change.)

[Harlan Huckleby]

McNAbb:
"People are trying to dig too deep in this whole situation," he said. "I wasn't pinpointing particular people. What I said was the fact that we (black QBs) have to do a little extra. No matter the style of play you're displaying, there's always going to be criticism.... I never said Peyton doesn't get criticized. I never said Carson doesn't get criticized. I never said Tom doesn't get criticized, because they do,"


I get what he's saying. I don't know objectively if it is true. Maybe. But it also is just how he feels.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Contrarian

[Harlan Huckleby]

OK, reading that article about Campbell, he is completely disagreeing with McNabb. MrAynRand's tortured interpretation threw me. Campbell largely agrees with the outraged white folk.

McNabb is implying that there is racism lingering out there which puts more pressure on him. I have no problem with this opinion/feeling, altho don't know to what extent it is true. I don't take the next step and accuse him of using this as a crutch.

[the_idle_threat]

You should, though. :wink:

[DannoMac21]

It sucks that two guys that are under 24 are more mature than a guy who is supposed to be one of the faces of the NFL. McNabb is a joke. If anything's bringing back any kind of racism, it's McNabb with these dumbass comments.

[MadtownPacker]

It sucks that two guys that are under 24 are more mature than a guy who is supposed to be one of the faces of the NFL. McNabb is a joke. If anything's bringing back any kind of racism, it's McNabb with these dumbass comments.Thats exactly right. He is really messing up crying like this. Just about everything he has said after his Superbowl choke job has been whining. His championship window has closed.

[NewsBruin]

Occasional Contrarian here,

I moved back to Mobile when Campbell was playing for Auburn. He replaced a white QB and did not play well initially. There was a good contingent in Alabama (state) sports-talk radio that said, "Well, maybe he's a good athlete... but he's probably not smart enough to be a SEC quarterback. Does Auburn have any other QB's? Maybe Campbell could be a good receiver."

I never watched an Auburn game and just assumed that Jason was white, based only on his name. The criticisms always seemed a little weird, like they were tailored for a type of quarterback, rather than this specific one.

Campbell fought off a lot of criticism, went through like three offensive co-ordinators, systems, and terminology sets, and really didn't come on until his last season and a half at AU. He wasn't an "athletic quarterback," but so much of the mindset was that he had to play like Vick/Cunningham.

I like him a lot as a player, but I find it funny that he talks about "...at this point of my career." He's only a second-year n00b and only played for a few noteable years at Auburn.

Without having read that article, it sounds like he's just trying to not rock the boat. He endured a lot of crap at Auburn (which would be tough on any quarterback), and I think a lot of it was centered on expectations for black quarterbacks. I don't think there's the same type of expectations in the pro's, but in the college and prep ranks, it seems as though black quarterbacks still have to play a certain way.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Fans often complain that coaches and players give robotic, scripted interviews. Then when somebody actually says what they think, people go nuts if it diverts from the "I just want to help the team win" script.

How many of you have close black friends? I mean friends who really tell you what they think. I've known a grand total of two black people in my life. It is quite stunning, on racial issues it seemed to me like they were irrational, and they probably thought I was just ignorant.

White people and black people see race issues very differently. Remember the OJ trial, when so many black people believed that a giant conspiracy was possible?

The only surprising thing about McNabb's statement is how foolishly open he was.

And as to the charge that McNabb was using the race issue as a sort of crutch, or excuse for his poor play: is this realistic? Do you really think he thought it would work?

Maybe he really does have a shitty attitude, maybe he doesn't. His comment does not prove anything. People believe what they want to believe about McNabb's motives.

[Noodle]

Well, I've got some pretty good buds with black skin, and they do see racial issues in ways I never do. The Jena 6 thing is an example. I don't get all the fuss -- 6 guys stomped the crap out of a dude and were initially charged with attempted murder, which I can understand under the circumstances. One of the defendants had a couple of battery priors, so it's not like the stompers were just funnin'. Eventually, the charges were reduced to aggravated battery, which seem right to me. But my black buds see it as a major issue of injustice.

Look, McNabb is hurting. He's struggling, and he's taken a ton of crap of Philly since draft day (remember the boos?). Athletes all the time look for excuses, and McNabb grabbed on to one that isn't really all that far fetched.

I wish folks would just let the McNabb thing die. He was frustrated, said something he probably really believes, but who cares? Honestly, who the crap really cares?

[the_idle_threat]

I guess I have a problem with him wanting to blame it on the white folks. It's a real cop out, and it doesn't do anybody any favors, because it just feeds racial resentment.

It may be an easy way out for him to believe his struggles are because he's black rather than because he's inconsistent and can't stay healthy, but in doing so he's unnecessarily fanning the flames of the racial divide---a divide that could possibly narrow more easily if it didn't seem like some folks want to keep it wide open.

Most of the black folks I know are neighbors---acquaintances or casual friends with whom I have not spoken on racial issues. My one close friend who did speak with me openly on these matters (but who moved out of state, so I don't talk with him much anymore :( ) was very common sense about racial issues. We agreed on most things. I think he would resent, as I do, McNabb crying wolf, even if McNabb does believe it (or at least wants to believe it).

[mraynrand]

OK, reading that article about Campbell, he is completely disagreeing with McNabb. MrAynRand's tortured interpretation threw me.

I'm in favor of torture, especially of QBs playing the Packers.

[MadtownPacker]

McNabb is implying that there is racism lingering out there which puts more pressure on him. I have no problem with this opinion/feeling, altho don't know to what extent it is true. I don't take the next step and accuse him of using this as a crutch.I think I now understand what McFingerpointer is saying. I often feel pressure to post better and I think it is brought on by the racism displayed by our very own Harlan Huckleby.

If I was a white poster I dont think Harlan would scrutinize my every word and point out my every mistake. This in turn has severely lowered the quality and successfully rate of my threads and post. It's like he WANTS me to fail.


:P

[Harlan Huckleby]

It's like he WANTS me to fail.

This part is true. But the rest is bunk, you aren't trying to post better, if anything your english is getting more broken.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I guess I have a problem with him wanting to blame it on the white folks.

What is "it"? Did he say or imply that his shitty play is due to racism?
Maybe he does think this, I don't know. But this is something you chose to read into it.


I think he would resent, as I do, McNabb crying wolf, even if McNabb does believe it (or at least wants to believe it).

I don't agree with what McNabb said, either his opinion or the wisdom of expressing it. But I just sort of accept it and sniff. The "crying wolf" is a negative spin you added.

*******************************
anecdote:
I worked in a research facility once that hired a lot of PHD's, had a black woman friend there. The black people rarely stayed long, because they were in huge demand (affirmative action) and had their pick of high paying jobs at universities and such. (And some of them were incompetent and nobody said anything.)
My friend said, "See, they can't hold on to their black people", as if they were leaving because of racism. This is a highly educated, typically sensible person. She grew up during the civil rights years, 50's & 60's, when it was reasonable to see racism and conspiracy eveywhere.
It takes a couple generations to make significant change: 1 generation to make the change, then a second generation to bury the people with bad memories.

[FritzDontBlitz]

i'm just hoping mcnabb doesnt run himself out of philly with his mouth, cuz there are already rumblings about him finding safe haven in his hometown:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/mariotti/566135,CST-SPT-jay20.article

yes, he's from a suburb just south of chicago.

and say what you want, do you REALLY wanna see mcnabb replace grossman in chicago? i do NOT wanna see this guy twice a year, i dont care how stupid his comments get he's still dangerous on the field.

definitely more of a threat than grossman....

[the_idle_threat]

I guess I have a problem with him wanting to blame it on the white folks.

What is "it"? Did he say or imply that his shitty play is due to racism?
Maybe he does think this, I don't know. But this is something you chose to read into it.


I think he would resent, as I do, McNabb crying wolf, even if McNabb does believe it (or at least wants to believe it).

I don't agree with what McNabb said, either his opinion or the wisdom of expressing it. But I just sort of accept it and sniff. The "crying wolf" is a negative spin you added.

*******************************
anecdote:
I worked in a research facility once that hired a lot of PHD's, had a black woman friend there. The black people rarely stayed long, because they were in huge demand (affirmative action) and had their pick of high paying jobs at universities and such. (And some of them were incompetent and nobody said anything.)
My friend said, "See, they can't hold on to their black people", as if they were leaving because of racism. This is a highly educated, typically sensible person. She grew up during the civil rights years, 50's & 60's, when it was reasonable to see racism and conspiracy eveywhere.
It takes a couple generations to make significant change: 1 generation to make the change, then a second generation to bury the people with bad memories.

C'mon Harlan, you're smarter than this.

"It" = criticism.

I truly believe he's crying wolf. Maybe my opinion is negative spin to you, but it's how I see it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

C'mon Harlan, you're smarter than this.

actually, no

[woodbuck27]

OK, reading that article about Campbell, he is completely disagreeing with McNabb. MrAynRand's tortured interpretation threw me. Campbell largely agrees with the outraged white folk.

McNabb is implying that there is racism lingering out there which puts more pressure on him. I have no problem with this opinion/feeling, altho don't know to what extent it is true. I don't take the next step and accuse him of using this as a crutch.

"McNabb is implying that there is racism lingering out there which puts more pressure on him." fr. above

I sense that McNabb is being merely forthright about what people of color are raised to believe and if smart know is the TRUTH.

I believe that McNabb leaves us with an accurate assessment of what generally we can agree is a fact of life.

Prejudice is a reality. To acknowledge that and prepare yourself to compensate that is smart and proper to gain the edge. Prejudice can only be one's adversary if one is weak in any manner of preperation of an endeavour of success and naive to not be equipped to deal with the lash without undo backlash of defensiveness.

[vince]

Well said Woody.

[woodbuck27]

Well said Woody.

I have been awake all night working on a PC Trojan Horse and I don't feel too sharp Vince.

Yet Thanks all the same. :)

[Terry]

I guess I have a problem with him wanting to blame it on the white folks. It's a real cop out, and it doesn't do anybody any favors, because it just feeds racial resentment.

Well, that's an interesting comment, particularly the bit I bolded (which I agree with). I also agree with Woodbuck, though I might quibble on "what generally we can agree is a fact of life." I mean, I might see a level of racism akin to what Woodbuck perhaps sees, but I'm not sure that everyone would agree on the degree of racism around us. But I don't want to split hairs.

I think there are two questions here, really - the question McNabb raises and then the question of whether he should raise it at all. In any such issue, such as racism, it's important to put a spotlight on it at every opportunity for a period of time and growth, but there comes a point when that spotlight starts to produce diminishing returns and can actually become counter-productive. For instance, when the NAACP throws in their two cents on the Vick situation, I believe they are eroding their own credibility (and since I think they are an important organization, I hate to see that happen) and that they are actually increasing racial divisiveness.

For all of sports' flaws (e.g., encouraging the tribal instincts), I think there are some very good things they do and one of these is that they have always been a forerunner in breaking down racial barriers. This must be seen in contrast to the society around them, within which they function. At this stage, it would seem to me that sports is one area in which, in regard to racism, the ship is righting itself continually. So the question in my mind is whether McNabb's comments contribute to that or not and I have to agree with the_idle_threat that the comments run the risk of feeding racial resentment. To my mind, it's almost moot as to whether the comments are accurate or not (to whatever degree).

[woodbuck27]

Terry it's so nice to see you here Packer fan.

[Harlan Huckleby]

For all of sports' flaws (e.g., encouraging the tribal instincts),

flaw!? I thought it was the whole point. :)