Ahman Green

[packinpatland]

Was just watching the highlights from the Texans game this past weekend.
Someone tell me again what TT was thinking when he let him go.

[packers11]

He should have a made a deal before FA...

ONCE fa hit, there was no way most people would pay the money the Texans did...

I agree with T.T. for not giving him what the Texans did, But I think he could have gotten him cheaper if he made a deal before FA...

[Fritz]

He was thinking he'd be happy to pay Ahman for this year and next but didn't want to pay him after that - too much risk. As he began to put together his proposal, Ahman got a mondo offer from Houston and jumped.

That's what he was thinking.

[Kiwon]

What was he thinking? - $$$$$ and risk

[4and12to12and4]

I have always said TT messed this one up. I don't think they should've paid him 5 million a year, although, why the hell not, the moneys just sitting in the bank anyways. But, if we would've given him a fair deal like 3 million for 3 years before FA, he would've signed it. He deserved it, would've been productive, helped our offense, and ultimately became the all time leading rusher in GB. We screwed him, and he handled it like a gentleman. I admire him for that. He could've ranted about the disloyalty of our organization how the past two years went down. It's bullshit and was handled as badly as the Javon incident. I just think TT's tight white demeanor is unappealing to these athletes. He probably tells them all how "lucky they are" to be a part of this organization instead of humbling himself and letting them feel appreciated and wanted. TT seems to be bad in this area.

By the way, it's bullshit that a nobody is wearing No.30 this year. Give the guy his props and keep that number off the field for a while at least or give it to someone who seems to deserve it. Not some second string nobody. That really ticks me off. I hope Ahman rushes for 1,500 yards this year, and probably will. Although, he may fumble 7 times also.

[gbgary]

yes...this and the walker saga were mistakes...especially walker.

[jramsey495]

agreed, he should have (and likely could have) taken care of it before FA... and i think the offer from the texans was ridiculous and i'm glad TT didn't offer something like that...

but i'd feel a lot better about this week's game with green in the backfield

[mmmdk]

He should have a made a deal before FA...

ONCE fa hit, there was no way most people would pay the money the Texans did...

I agree with T.T. for not giving him what the Texans did, But I think he could have gotten him cheaper if he made a deal before FA...

I agree; when FA did hit Ahman Green I think Texans overpaid but Green could be good for a few more years.

[Rastak]

He should have a made a deal before FA...

ONCE fa hit, there was no way most people would pay the money the Texans did...

I agree with T.T. for not giving him what the Texans did, But I think he could have gotten him cheaper if he made a deal before FA...

I agree; when FA did hit Ahman Green I think Texans overpaid but Green could be good for a few more years.

The Pack had a load of money. I really can't say I 100% disagree with the decision. Green is clearly at an age where he is declining. With the available cap space I'm thinking they could have kept him if they wanted to, and overpaid without an issue.

[mmmdk]

He should have a made a deal before FA...

ONCE fa hit, there was no way most people would pay the money the Texans did...

I agree with T.T. for not giving him what the Texans did, But I think he could have gotten him cheaper if he made a deal before FA...

I agree; when FA did hit Ahman Green I think Texans overpaid but Green could be good for a few more years.

The Pack had a load of money. I really can't say I 100% disagree with the decision. Green is clearly at an age where he is declining. With the available cap space I'm thinking they could have kept him if they wanted to, and overpaid without an issue.

Also valid :)

[4and12to12and4]

He should have a made a deal before FA...

ONCE fa hit, there was no way most people would pay the money the Texans did...

I agree with T.T. for not giving him what the Texans did, But I think he could have gotten him cheaper if he made a deal before FA...

I agree; when FA did hit Ahman Green I think Texans overpaid but Green could be good for a few more years.

Yes, he was overpaid, but, if he had not gotten to FA, there is no way he would've assumed he could've gotten that money, and he did want to stay here and become the most prolific runner in GB history. My bet is that if we would've offered him 3+million for two to three years he would've signed instantly. We offered him nothing. We assumed the FA would be thinking an old injured, fumbling RB? No thanks. We forgot Sherman was out there wheeling and dealing. Yes, he's overpaid, but, if we would've paid him the money, it wouldn't have changed a thing here, we are just sitting on his money like idiots. Unless TT has some miraculous spending spree in the near future ... yeah right.

[Carolina_Packer]

4and12to12and4,

Your statements presume that the Packers could have signed him after the 2006 season and before free agency. We don't really know what kind of conversations they had. Green may have felt like he wanted to test free agency. What would be his incentive to just hurry up and sign a deal. If he thought he was healthy and could be productive, he could have waited for free agency and gone back and signed a 3 for 3 mill if he had no takers. You're assuming he would of taken the lesser deal, and we don't know that. It may have even been offered and he may have passed on it to see what free agency would bring. We just don't know. I wish him well, but that was then, and this is now. I hope someone develops, but moreover, I hope the line gets their act together, because I do think the Packers have some talent at RB, and I want Morency back to add to that depth.

[Partial]

shit son with that great texas line BJack might be getting 2.5 yards/carry! 8-)

[Bretsky]

He was thinking he'd be happy to pay Ahman for this year and next but didn't want to pay him after that - too much risk. As he began to put together his proposal, Ahman got a mondo offer from Houston and jumped.

That's what he was thinking.


He was thinking he'd get Ahman at his price and his price only; after all we only had 13-15,000,000 of cap space to work with. It's debateable as to whether he underestimated Ahman's value in this market; but IMO Fred Taylor's deal must have felt like a kick in his jibs because Ahman was going to get similar money.

TT had plenty of time to get this done and the only way to do that was making it happen "before" free agency. Once Ahman hit free agency we lost him because TT mojo was not going to match the best offer.

Ahman has looked good so far this season. Heads and heels better than anything we have. Looking at the cap now TT could have massively frontloaded a deal similar to Woodsen's into this year without effecting the future much at all.

[Bretsky]

He should have a made a deal before FA...

ONCE fa hit, there was no way most people would pay the money the Texans did...

I agree with T.T. for not giving him what the Texans did, But I think he could have gotten him cheaper if he made a deal before FA...

I agree; when FA did hit Ahman Green I think Texans overpaid but Green could be good for a few more years.

The Pack had a load of money. I really can't say I 100% disagree with the decision. Green is clearly at an age where he is declining. With the available cap space I'm thinking they could have kept him if they wanted to, and overpaid without an issue.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[MadtownPacker]

I wouldn't have minded TT showed Ahman the money because he deserved. His current play in houston doesn't matter to me.

[Bretsky]

I wouldn't have minded TT showed Ahman the money because he deserved. His current play in houston doesn't matter to me.


Would have been nice to see him break the Packer record book as well. He was a guy who wanted to play in Green Bay

Saw him at a Milwaukee Bucks game; very friendly guy.

Ahman Green and Donald Driver are two Packers who genuinely seemed to enjoy Wisconsin.

[Freak Out]

I know it's not wise to get sentimental about pro athletes but it was hard to see him go. He made the Packers a pretty damn good team when he was healthy...which was most the time. When Sherman had the offense clicking it was a thing of beauty with Green back there. I wish him well.

[Noodle]

I'm a shameless AG lover. I admit it. Watched him in high school. Loved him at Nebraska. And was thrilled to see him here. I know I'm biased. So I've been keeping my mouth shut about how he's doing in Houston.

But, DAMN, we should have signed him before FA. 4and12, Bretsky, and you others are dead on about this. Why we didn't overpay a little before FA is a friggin mystery to me.

I'm not saying we should have matched Houston's offer. No one says that, (though would it really have hurt us?). I'm saying we should have got it done before then.

AG loved GB. It felt like college to him, which he loved. He lived here year-round, unlike damn near everyone else on the team. I truly believe that if we had come to him strong in week 5 or 6 of the season with some serious up-front jack, he'd still be here.

TT has done good things. I'm not calling for his head. But on this one, he screwed the pooch.

For whatever reason, TT thinks OLs and RBs are a dime a dozen. No, they are not. When you find a pearl, you cherish it and don't throw it away. Here's to a season of 2.7 yards/carry. Yay.

[Fritz]

I don't know. My recollection is that Green wanted to test the waters - and when he did, Houston bowled him over.

I think it'll take two years before we know the effects of his deal with Houston. Right now he looks good for the Texans - but his deal goes, I think, for four years.

Besides, how much ground would he gain behind the Pack's o-line. More than the other RB's here, sure, but even a great back needs some blocking.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

He was thinking he'd be happy to pay Ahman for this year and next but didn't want to pay him after that - too much risk. As he began to put together his proposal, Ahman got a mondo offer from Houston and jumped.

That's what he was thinking.


He was thinking he'd get Ahman at his price and his price only; after all we only had 13-15,000,000 of cap space to work with. It's debateable as to whether he underestimated Ahman's value in this market; but IMO Fred Taylor's deal must have felt like a kick in his jibs because Ahman was going to get similar money.

TT had plenty of time to get this done and the only way to do that was making it happen "before" free agency. Once Ahman hit free agency we lost him because TT mojo was not going to match the best offer.

Ahman has looked good so far this season. Heads and heels better than anything we have. Looking at the cap now TT could have massively frontloaded a deal similar to Woodsen's into this year without effecting the future much at all.

I agree. It is very dumb to be just sitting on 13 million of cap space. Hell give him 10 million this year and the rest of his contract would look very small.

I main reason I wanted AG to stay so bad is because our line is young and lacks experience. It just seemed AG could always make something happen. If we had a line like Denver, one in which you could just plug anyone in, his loss would have had a lesser effect on the team.

[Bretsky]

He was thinking he'd be happy to pay Ahman for this year and next but didn't want to pay him after that - too much risk. As he began to put together his proposal, Ahman got a mondo offer from Houston and jumped.

That's what he was thinking.


He was thinking he'd get Ahman at his price and his price only; after all we only had 13-15,000,000 of cap space to work with. It's debateable as to whether he underestimated Ahman's value in this market; but IMO Fred Taylor's deal must have felt like a kick in his jibs because Ahman was going to get similar money.

TT had plenty of time to get this done and the only way to do that was making it happen "before" free agency. Once Ahman hit free agency we lost him because TT mojo was not going to match the best offer.

Ahman has looked good so far this season. Heads and heels better than anything we have. Looking at the cap now TT could have massively frontloaded a deal similar to Woodsen's into this year without effecting the future much at all.

I agree. It is very dumb to be just sitting on 13 million of cap space. Hell give him 10 million this year and the rest of his contract would look very small.

I main reason I wanted AG to stay so bad is because our line is young and lacks experience. It just seemed AG could always make something happen. If we had a line like Denver, one in which you could just plug anyone in, his lose would have had a lesser effect and the team.


Yup

[GBRulz]

Oh, my favorite topic! :lol:

Alot of the deals under the new cap are going to seem "Overpaid", because teams have alot of cap space and have the money to spend. It's going to be a few years before we start seeing cap casualties again.

Green wanted to stay in GB. TT tried to lowball him. Then Green hit FA, got an offer from Houston and TT raised his price. Well, maybe if TT would have offered him that price (whatever it was, we'll never know) to begin with BEFORE FA started, we would still have #30 in our backfield.

Where are all the people who were arguing with me that "Green was old and we'll be fine with Morency and BJ?" Silence speaks volumes.

Yeah, everyone has something that they feel pretty strongly about... for some it was letting Walker go, or not keeping Wahle.....well, it's no secret what mine is :wink: Damn freaken Turtle....

[Bretsky]

Oh, my favorite topic! :lol:

Alot of the deals under the new cap are going to seem "Overpaid", because teams have alot of cap space and have the money to spend. It's going to be a few years before we start seeing cap casualties again.

Green wanted to stay in GB. TT tried to lowball him. Then Green hit FA, got an offer from Houston and TT raised his price. Well, maybe if TT would have offered him that price (whatever it was, we'll never know) to begin with BEFORE FA started, we would still have #30 in our backfield.

Where are all the people who were arguing with me that "Green was old and we'll be fine with Morency and BJ?" Silence speaks volumes.

Yeah, everyone has something that they feel pretty strongly about... for some it was letting Walker go, or not keeping Wahle.....well, it's no secret what mine is :wink: Damn freaken Turtle....


LOL; Great post by the way

[Merlin]

Oh, my favorite topic! :lol:

Alot of the deals under the new cap are going to seem "Overpaid", because teams have alot of cap space and have the money to spend. It's going to be a few years before we start seeing cap casualties again.

Green wanted to stay in GB. TT tried to lowball him. Then Green hit FA, got an offer from Houston and TT raised his price. Well, maybe if TT would have offered him that price (whatever it was, we'll never know) to begin with BEFORE FA started, we would still have #30 in our backfield.

Where are all the people who were arguing with me that "Green was old and we'll be fine with Morency and BJ?" Silence speaks volumes.

Yeah, everyone has something that they feel pretty strongly about... for some it was letting Walker go, or not keeping Wahle.....well, it's no secret what mine is :wink: Damn freaken Turtle....

I couldn' agree more with you on this one. 3T tried to low ball him like he does with all players. We don't have Moss because of 3T and although it is a dead issue, this just goes along with 3T's general attitude that winning isn't as important as "building for the future". Even though right now we have a lot of young players that will go other places when their contracts are up because of the way 3T manages our cap and his reputation of low balling extensions. You can't roll over the cap into next year. With all of our injuries, why aren't we trying to get a trade done for a veteran WR and RB?

[run pMc]

IIRC, there were discussions during and before last season. He wanted to test FA. TT let him, with the idea that he'd try to match any reasonable offer. The offer from HOU apparently wasn't reasonable.

In truth, it is a very generous offer for a RB on the wrong side of 30 with tough mileage, a bad leg injury in his past, and a history of fumbles. All that said, he was the best RB we had, and it would have been nice to keep him.

The RB woes thus far this year only highlight that -- if Jackson or Wynn had ripped off a 100yd game against PHI or NYG, the grumbling would be quieter.

[Noodle]

GBRulz, you Rulz my heart with that post. Can't be said any better that that.

[The Leaper]

All of you suggesting Thompson should've done something prior to free agency are nuts. Ahman Green WANTED to hit the free agent market. This was his last chance to get a big deal, and he felt pretty confident he could get it because of the lack of RBs available. Good for him...he earned that cash and shouldn't be criticized for not jumping at a hometown discount.

Ahman has looked OK in Houston...but let's see how he looks without Andre Johnson in the lineup this week. I'm guessing his stats take a hit. He can't break big gainers anymore. Would he help Green Bay now? Sure. Would he help Green Bay 2 years from now? Doubtful.

This Packer team has been built young...and is still 2 years away from being a true contender IMO. Thompson knows that. That is why he wasn't going to pay big money to Green. He has to find the NEXT guy at RB...and that won't happen if you keep Green and pay him big time $$$$.

Let's revisit this discussion in 2 years...and I bet the decision to part with Ahman probably will look a lot better. Right now, it is a no-brainer that Ahman is a greater value...but this decision was made with a 3-4 year window in mind.

[rpiotr01]

The 5 million in 2007 the Packers offered him was not a low-ball offer.

[wist43]

He should have a made a deal before FA...

ONCE fa hit, there was no way most people would pay the money the Texans did...

I agree with T.T. for not giving him what the Texans did, But I think he could have gotten him cheaper if he made a deal before FA...

I agree, been saying that since the end of last season... spilt milk now though.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

He has to find the NEXT guy at RB...and that won't happen if you keep Green and pay him big time $$$$.



Why not? That’s the same argument people were using to not get Moss, but I did buy it. Why can't you have Green and draft his replacement in a year or two to take over for him the time is right. Why do we have to suffer this year and maybe another before we find our next great back. Also, even if Jackson and Wynn or whoever else turns out, you can never have enough good backs.

[The Leaper]

Why not? That’s the same argument people were using to not get Moss, but I did buy it. Why can't you have Green and draft his replacement in a year or two to take over for him the time is right.

Because Houston offered Green starter's money for 4 years...and Green isn't worth $5M a year at this point. He'll be fortunate to get 1000 yards and 8 TDs in Houston this year...and I'm willing to bet that Wynn/Morency is BETTER than Green by year end.

I'm sure Thompson would've preferred to keep Ahman as a starter for one more year...but locking him into a 4 year deal when Ahman really doesn't have that much left in the tank would have been foolish.

[rpiotr01]

I'm sure Thompson would've preferred to keep Ahman as a starter for one more year...but locking him into a 4 year deal when Ahman really doesn't have that much left in the tank would have been foolish.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you in spirit, but length of the deal doesn't matter. Length and overall value is something agents need so they can toot their own horns about getting a client X amount for X amount of years. The Packers could have signed Green to a 5 year deal, front loaded the contract and cut him after 2 years if he was playing poorly. They just didn't think he was worth what the Texans gave him, and he thought he was worth more than what the Pack offered, so he hit FA, and as has been said, once someone gets to FA they're gone.

[The Leaper]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you in spirit, but length of the deal doesn't matter. Length and overall value is something agents need so they can toot their own horns about getting a client X amount for X amount of years.

Yes and no.

Ahman Green was basically going to be signing his final contract in the NFL...he wasn't going to settle for anything less than the maximum amount of guaranteed money and "likely to be seen" money that he could. Length of the deal DID matter...because the length is what determines your chances of continuing to play under your current deal. For Green, that is the difference between earning $5M a year and $800k.

If you are talking about a young kid in his 20s who probably has a very good chance to land another deal down the road, I might agree with you. However, in this instance, Green was going to take the deal that provided the highest chance at getting the highest dollars possible. His next deal, if he gets another one, will be at the vet minimum.

That is why he wouldn't accept a deal that was basically a guaranteed max 2 year deal. Green wanted a good chance that he might be retained for 3 or more years...which is what he gets in Houston.

[PackerBlues]

Where are all the people who were arguing with me that "Green was old and we'll be fine with Morency and BJ?" Silence speaks volumes.



My guess is that they are hangin out with all the people that said that Randy Moss was "washed up", and "not worth getting". Green had a great year with the Packers last year, rushing and recieving. While I was pointing out how hard it was going to be to replace that much production from one guy, others were bashing me for wanting an "old, washed up, overly expensive player".

Green and Moss could have both been signed in GB with the cap space the Packers have. The entire time I was arguing that Moss would have been great for our depth if nothing else, people were bashing me for even wanting Moss at all. Now look at our fucking depth at WR.

As much as I would like to say "I hate to say it, but I told ya so", I do not hate to say it........I fuckin told ya so!!!!!!!!! :evil:

[MJZiggy]

PB, we're two games in and undefeated. You can tell me so after Green and Moss have both survived the season and have done better than our teams. (and in Moss's case, manages to keep his trap shut and out of trouble for the season)

[HarveyWallbangers]

I would have liked to seen Ahman return. Ahman was one of my favorite Packers, but I can see both sides.

Ahman's contract is a base salary of $3M this year and $4.5M next year with a $5M signing bonus. It escalates from there, and Ahman likely won't be playing under the terms of this contract in 2009.

Realistically, it's a 2 year contract. If Ahman get injured and plays one year, it would count $4.25M against the cap this year and would count $3.75M in dead money against the cap in 2008. If he plays two years and then gets injured, it would count $5.75M against the cap next year and would count $2.5M against the cap in dead money in 2009.

If Thompson had doubts about Ahman's durability, I can see him wanting to go with younger legs that will be cheap for several years. Our cap situation is good now (although not as great as some think because we've resigned our own players). However, in two years we are going to start having a boatload of players become FAs.

I don't think it's that hard to find RBs. I'm sure if our OL was run blocking better, these RBs would look a lot better.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Where are all the people who were arguing with me that "Green was old and we'll be fine with Morency and BJ?" Silence speaks volumes.

Ahman is averaging 70 yards/game for Houston. What do you think he'd be doing running behind our OL with the way they are run blocking this year?

Ahman is 30 years old and has had injuries in recent years. I'll wait to see if he is mostly healthy and productive for the next two seasons before judging if it was a good move or not.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Water under the bridge.

[PackerBlues]

I agree with Harv and Ziggy in the fact that what they are saying makes sense. But it is still a slap in the face to be told that neither of them were worth getting by people who predicted such great things from guys like Morency and Jones for this year. To me, Moss and Green would have been great for our depth and inexperience at their respective positions, which by the way, was my biggest argument for getting both of them signed.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I wish Ahman all the best. Wouldn't care if it proved Thompson wrong or not. I also don't blame Thompson for his decision on Ahman.

The only thing that's sad is that I was hoping he'd finish his career in Green Bay and get the rushing record. Plus, my #30 Packers jersey with "Green" on the back isn't as cool.
:D

[Bretsky]

Ahman's contract is a base salary of $3M this year and $4.5M next year with a $5M signing bonus. It escalates from there, and Ahman likely won't be playing under the terms of this contract in 2009.

Realistically, it's a 2 year contract. If Ahman get injured and plays one year, it would count $4.25M against the cap this year and would count $3.75M in dead money against the cap in 2008. If he plays two years and then gets injured, it would count $5.75M against the cap next year and would count $2.5M against the cap in dead money in 2009.


When you truly examine the contract, as you did, it becomes more of a no brainer to bring Ahman back to GB. He would not be tearing it up here by any means, but he's much much better than what we have. Honestly, frontloading the deal into this years cap would have been right up TT's alley for Ahman.

[Bretsky]

I wish Ahman all the best. Wouldn't care if it proved Thompson wrong or not. I also don't blame Thompson for his decision on Ahman.

The only thing that's sad is that I was hoping he'd finish his career in Green Bay and get the rushing record. Plus, my #30 Packers jersey with "Green" on the back isn't as cool.
:D


I hope Ahman tears it up and somehow makes the pro bowl so we get an extra 3rd round draft pick

[HarveyWallbangers]

I wish Ahman all the best. Wouldn't care if it proved Thompson wrong or not. I also don't blame Thompson for his decision on Ahman.

The only thing that's sad is that I was hoping he'd finish his career in Green Bay and get the rushing record. Plus, my #30 Packers jersey with "Green" on the back isn't as cool.
:D

I hope Ahman tears it up and somehow makes the pro bowl so we get an extra 3rd round draft pick

That's the other side of it. If Ahman does tear it up (and he only has to do so this year), we get a good draft pick. That makes Thompson's decision even more reasonable.

[HarveyWallbangers]

When you truly examine the contract, as you did, it becomes more of a no brainer to bring Ahman back to GB. He would not be tearing it up here by any means, but he's much much better than what we have. Honestly, frontloading the deal into this years cap would have been right up TT's alley for Ahman.

Round and round. We are $13M under the cap. How much would have realistically been able to frontload--yet still give Ahman the long-term deal he was seeking? Not much. Especially if you want to extend some of your own guys (by frontloading contracts). Remember also that it was still early in the FA process, so I don't think Thompson felt assured that he'd have $13M left at the time Ahman signed his deal. He probably was thinking that he'd still need room for Randy Moss' contract.
:D

[Bretsky]

When you truly examine the contract, as you did, it becomes more of a no brainer to bring Ahman back to GB. He would not be tearing it up here by any means, but he's much much better than what we have. Honestly, frontloading the deal into this years cap would have been right up TT's alley for Ahman.

Round and round. We are $13M under the cap. How much would have realistically been able to frontload--yet still give Ahman the long-term deal he was seeking? Not much. Especially if you want to extend some of your own guys (by frontloading contracts). Remember also that it was still early in the FA process, so I don't think Thompson felt assured that he'd have $13M left at the time Ahman signed his deal. He probably was thinking that he'd still need room for Randy Moss' contract.
:D

Frontload that baby 6-7 Million right away year one. Then we have 5-7 left.
Who of our own guys are we frontloading anyways ? Corey Williams is the only guy to consider, and I'm not sure he's in TT's plans. Harrell has to contribute sometime, right ?

You do make a good point about Moss; if TT was banking on his ability to close that deal. But that one went array too

[MJZiggy]

Harrell does have to contribute, but don't you think it would be a good idea to hold onto Williams until Harrell actually does contribute?

[Bretsky]

Harrell does have to contribute, but don't you think it would be a good idea to hold onto Williams until Harrell actually does contribute?


Did we hold onto Ahman Green until Brandon Jackson contributed ? :flag:

[MJZiggy]

They were expecting Morency to do that. They thought they had the piece of the puzzle in place but he got injured. Jackson wasn't supposed to be #1 this year. That has nothing to do with what they do with Williams.

[PackerBlues]

In all honesty, I would think that Morency's days in GB are numbered. With the experience that the youngsters are getting in his place right now, Morency and his salary have become expendable. Perhaps not this season, as depth is an issue. But I would think that Thompson would be smart enough to realize that Morency seems to be injury prone, and that the best time to get rid of him would be directly after he comes back from his injury. Morency has never been, by any means, a star player like Green, and could easily be replaced by a late round draft pick next year.

[Harlan Huckleby]

In all honesty, I would think that Morency's days in GB are numbered. With the experience that the youngsters are getting in his place right now, Morency and his salary have become expendable.

Lets see him play before we write his obituary.

Morency is only in his third season.

You might be right. Check that - you are almost certainly right, he has "stopgap" written on his forehead. But he might be the best back on the roster this year.

[Partial]

I wish Ahman all the best. Wouldn't care if it proved Thompson wrong or not. I also don't blame Thompson for his decision on Ahman.

The only thing that's sad is that I was hoping he'd finish his career in Green Bay and get the rushing record. Plus, my #30 Packers jersey with "Green" on the back isn't as cool.
:D

I hope Ahman tears it up and somehow makes the pro bowl so we get an extra 3rd round draft pick

That's the other side of it. If Ahman does tear it up (and he only has to do so this year), we get a good draft pick. That makes Thompson's decision even more reasonable.

In that case Go Ahman Green! Hit 2500 GP yards!!

[The Leaper]

When you truly examine the contract, as you did, it becomes more of a no brainer to bring Ahman back to GB. He would not be tearing it up here by any means, but he's much much better than what we have.

I doubt it. To me, Morency looked as good as Ahman at times in running the ball last year. Ahman's value was basically his ability to block and be a reliable safety valve out of the backfield.

I don't see how that is worth $4-5M a year...especially when you consider that Ahman wouldn't be doing any better than Jackson or Wynn right now behind our pathetic OL play the first 2 weeks. Better to stash that cash in our team's reserve at this point...because Green Bay does not have the revenue capacity that big market teams have. Even after Lambeau's makeover, we are no better than middle of the road in revenue production.

We aren't the Redskins...we don't have an owner's unlimited cash reserves to fall back on. Spending money foolishly HURTS the Packers.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Frontload that baby 6-7 Million right away year one. Then we have 5-7 left. Who of our own guys are we frontloading anyways ? Corey Williams is the only guy to consider, and I'm not sure he's in TT's plans. Harrell has to contribute sometime, right ?

You do make a good point about Moss; if TT was banking on his ability to close that deal. But that one went array too

$6-7M year one? That leaves $16M more dollars for the final 3 years. We're good next year. The following year we started hitting FAs with some of our younger players, so we don't want to push too much dead money into next year. If Ahman got injured = hello dead money. There was an article in the JSO that stated that Thompson might look at extending some guys that are more than a year away from UFA. Like the Harris and Driver deals.

[The Leaper]

In all honesty, I would think that Morency's days in GB are numbered.

Why? He could easily return to the lineup in the near future and put up good numbers. He's in a contract year...I expect him to come back and play very hard, and with the lackluster performance of Jackson the door is wide open.

Honestly, Morency and Wynn could be a capable 1-2 punch in the second half of this season.

[rbaloha1]

Bottom Line: risk to reward is too great for AG. TT made the right call -- someone or the group shall be as productive as AG.

[Zool]

Bottom Line: risk to reward is too great for AG. TT made the right call -- someone or the group shall be as productive as AG.

And thats all you need to know.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/ba/Baron_Von_Raschke.jpg

[Bretsky]

They were expecting Morency to do that. They thought they had the piece of the puzzle in place but he got injured. Jackson wasn't supposed to be #1 this year. That has nothing to do with what they do with Williams.

ya, sure they were :roll:

[RashanGary]

I'm opening up to the idea of letting Williams go. He's been disappointing. I acctually think Cole has looked better and Jolly has been a good notch better as well.

[b bulldog]

Williams is a very good rotation guy. He would be great to keep around if he doesn't break the bank and if it looks like Harrell will be a bust.

[Partial]

Lock him up now and front load it so he gets paid 3-4 mil per year after this. Then it isn't like he's overpaid to be a back-up if the situation arises. No sense in letting a guy like him walk.

[wist43]

If Harrell were to perform like Williams in his 2nd and 3rd years, we'd saying what a great pick he was.

Williams is a damn good player. Certainly better than Cole. I rate him on a par with Jolly, with each of them having differenct strengths, i.e. Jolly a better run/base down player, Williams a better pass rusher.

If Williams walks, and Harrell doesn't at least ascend to Williams' level, then Harrell was a wasted pick. Hell, you could even argue that if he doesn't exceed Williams productivity, he's a wasted pick b/c we already had him on the roster in the person of Williams.

In terms of building a team - it's got to be that simple.

[LEWCWA]

how did this get to DL...title is A. Green!

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm opening up to the idea of letting Williams go. He's been disappointing. I acctually think Cole has looked better and Jolly has been a good notch better as well.

You felt this way before the year, so you seemed biased. How has he been disappointing?

[Bretsky]

I'm opening up to the idea of letting Williams go. He's been disappointing. I acctually think Cole has looked better and Jolly has been a good notch better as well.

Cole has absolutely NOT looked better than Williams :!: Cole is a solid last DL on a team on gameday

You are on record saying you'd be quite critical of TT if he let Williams walk

[RashanGary]

If Harrell were to perform like Williams in his 2nd and 3rd years, we'd saying what a great pick he was.

Williams is a damn good player. Certainly better than Cole. I rate him on a par with Jolly, with each of them having differenct strengths, i.e. Jolly a better run/base down player, Williams a better pass rusher.

If Williams walks, and Harrell doesn't at least ascend to Williams' level, then Harrell was a wasted pick. Hell, you could even argue that if he doesn't exceed Williams productivity, he's a wasted pick b/c we already had him on the roster in the person of Williams.

In terms of building a team - it's got to be that simple.

I'm not as impressed with Williams this year. I expected a big step, almost like Kamps big step up. Harrell has to be better than Williams. Harrell has to be the best DT on our team after 3 years or it wasn't a good pick IMO.

[Bretsky]

I'm opening up to the idea of letting Williams go. He's been disappointing. I acctually think Cole has looked better and Jolly has been a good notch better as well.

You felt this way before the year, so you seemed biased. How has he been disappointing?

I don't see how Williams has been a disappointment at all. The drafting of Harrell, as I immediately stated, was a sign that Williams was headed out the door. That was the negative TT bias in me speaking of course :lol:
But it still would not surprise me

[RashanGary]

He hasn't really taken the step that I had hoped. It's early though. He has 1 sack. He needs 4 or 5 more and it will be a pretty good year for a DT. Maybe I'm being picky, but I expected him to take a big step. He looks about the same. Maybe I'm being to hard becuase the guy we had last year was a pretty good pass rusher.


None of our DT's are stars but we have enough of them to remain fresh in the 4th quarter when most team fade. Notice how well we've played in the 4th. I think that has a lot to do with our DL depth, mostly our DT depth.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

He hasn't really taken the step that I had hoped. It's early though. He has 1 sack. He needs 4 or 5 more and it will be a pretty good year for a DT. Maybe I'm being picky, but I expected him to take a big step. He looks about the same. Maybe I'm being to hard becuase the guy we had last year was a pretty good pass rusher.


None of our DT's are stars but we have enough of them to remain fresh in the 4th quarter when most team fade. Notice how well we've played in the 4th. I think that has a lot to do with our DL depth, mostly our DT depth.

He say 2 sacks and a INT in two games. He sucks. :roll:

[RashanGary]

haha, good god, he does have two sacks. I didn't even notice :)

I havn't noticed him too often, but there was a cluster in the face of Manning the whole 4th quarter. Maybe I just missed him back there.


Pretend I didn't post the last 5 posts. I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. :)

He hasn't stood out to me, but it seems liek that may be more on me than it is on him :oops:

[b bulldog]

Harrell better be the best DT on our team by sometime next season or for all the needs we had on offense, he wil;l be labeled a bust. Three years in is simply too long in todays salarycap era.

[Bretsky]

haha, good god, he does have two sacks. I didn't even notice :)

I havn't noticed him too often, but there was a cluster in the face of Manning the whole 4th quarter. Maybe I just missed him back there.


Pretend I didn't post the last 5 posts. I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. :)

He hasn't stood out to me, but it seems liek that may be more on me than it is on him :oops:

JH,

I was wondering where the real JH was :wink:

I was listening to some of the post game and the announcers noted they were surprised Williams was not playing more snaps because he's looked so well. If he keeps up his play he'll earn a big raise from somebody...hopefully us.

[esoxx]

Williams had a very good game against the Giants. He's a keeper.

[esoxx]

They were expecting Morency to do that. They thought they had the piece of the puzzle in place but he got injured.

I sure hope they weren't thinking that. Morency had never demonstrated the ability to stay healthy and contribute on a consistent basis. It's no surprise to me a two week back injury is running on week seven right about now.

Our RB problems are not going away this year.

[woodbuck27]

Was just watching the highlights from the Texans game this past weekend.
Someone tell me again what TT was thinking when he let him go.

As usual his penchant to be an accountant ruled the days before the FA period began and his procrastination and inability to evaluate real talent in terms of the cost to add/keep such to/for his team cost us Ahman Green.

If Ted Thompson had any Moxie in him he would have had Ahman Green wrapped well before Free Agency based on a fine season last year coming off a horrible injury and ann intensive rehabilitation. Second season after that injury and Ahman being a Packer and with his blocking skills and ability to make the long run and to catch balls over the line of scrimmage all were plus's that should have shouted re-sign him Ted.

Then this. Ahman Green was only a decent season of rushing away from eclipsing Jim Taylors Packer ALL TIME RUSHING RECORD. That gets him into the Packer HOF for certain.

Then what in HELL does Ted Thompson care. He is an acccountant.

End of story.

[woodbuck27]

I have always said TT messed this one up. I don't think they should've paid him 5 million a year, although, why the hell not, the moneys just sitting in the bank anyways. But, if we would've given him a fair deal like 3 million for 3 years before FA, he would've signed it. He deserved it, would've been productive, helped our offense, and ultimately became the all time leading rusher in GB. We screwed him, and he handled it like a gentleman. I admire him for that. He could've ranted about the disloyalty of our organization how the past two years went down. It's bullshit and was handled as badly as the Javon incident. I just think TT's tight white demeanor is unappealing to these athletes. He probably tells them all how "lucky they are" to be a part of this organization instead of humbling himself and letting them feel appreciated and wanted. TT seems to be bad in this area.

By the way, it's bullshit that a nobody is wearing No.30 this year. Give the guy his props and keep that number off the field for a while at least or give it to someone who seems to deserve it. Not some second string nobody. That really ticks me off. I hope Ahman rushes for 1,500 yards this year, and probably will. Although, he may fumble 7 times also.


BRAVO !!!!

[woodbuck27]

Ted Thompson had a real shot at attaining Ahman Green if he just acted towords Ahman with some decent respect and signed him even to a three year contract at say 4 Million.

That had to be done by sometime in Jan. - Feb. Ahman Green knew what he had in the tank and he had an idea of his value then there is his proper sense of pride.

The longer Ted waited the better chance that Ahman would disappear. He had no plan to sign Ahman Green or it would have gotten just there. Eithyer that or he screweed up again or showed us again another example of his weakness to be a solid GM.

I'm only speculating this but I believe that Ahman would have snapped that. Instead Ole Ted likes to let things drag on. . . and drag on some more.

I wonder how long he sits on the toilet. :)

Now imagine this Packer fans for this season at least.

What we have now plus Ahman Green and Randy Moss.

Ted Thompson had all the power to get that done.

We only saw two more whiffs.

[woodbuck27]

Oh, my favorite topic! :lol:

Alot of the deals under the new cap are going to seem "Overpaid", because teams have alot of cap space and have the money to spend. It's going to be a few years before we start seeing cap casualties again.

Green wanted to stay in GB. TT tried to lowball him. Then Green hit FA, got an offer from Houston and TT raised his price. Well, maybe if TT would have offered him that price (whatever it was, we'll never know) to begin with BEFORE FA started, we would still have #30 in our backfield.

Where are all the people who were arguing with me that "Green was old and we'll be fine with Morency and BJ?" Silence speaks volumes.

Yeah, everyone has something that they feel pretty strongly about... for some it was letting Walker go, or not keeping Wahle.....well, it's no secret what mine is :wink: Damn freaken Turtle....

DAM it I loved Ahman Green and he played his heart out for us and in some ways I'm glad that he escaped the heartless clown that is our GM.

YOUR POST HIT A HOME RUN with me GBRulz.

As GOD may witness this I swear that Ted Thompson's personality (well - no personality) will kill our team in time.

Who would want to play for such a heartless man?

He's like cold stone.

[woodbuck27]

PB, we're two games in and undefeated. You can tell me so after Green and Moss have both survived the season and have done better than our teams. (and in Moss's case, manages to keep his trap shut and out of trouble for the season)

The Lawyer posts.

What in hell has being 2-0 have to do with us losing a real solid Packer like Ahman Green and the fact that Randy Moss woukl have been ours (not in New England) if we had a GM with any GD sense.

Secondly if anyone wanted to go back in time you mj wanted Moss in Green Bay.

Am I right or wrong on both points? mj ???

[MJZiggy]

PB, we're two games in and undefeated. You can tell me so after Green and Moss have both survived the season and have done better than our teams. (and in Moss's case, manages to keep his trap shut and out of trouble for the season)

The Lawyer posts.

What in hell has being 2-0 have to do with us losing a real solid Packer like Ahman Green and the fact that Randy Moss woukl have been ours (not in New England) if we had a GM with any GD sense.

Being 2-0 has to do with it because we're winning without either of them. (Not that I don't love Ahman and wish he were here, but he's not.)


Secondly if anyone wanted to go back in time you mj wanted Moss in Green Bay.

I did, but he's not, so about 5 minutes after the announcement was made, I got over it because he doesn't play for us.


Am I right or wrong on both points? mj ???

I'd say you're not.

[Scott Campbell]

Then what in HELL does Ted Thompson care. He is an acccountant.

End of story.


Do you hate accountants too?

[Bretsky]

They were expecting Morency to do that. They thought they had the piece of the puzzle in place but he got injured.

I sure hope they weren't thinking that. Morency had never demonstrated the ability to stay healthy and contribute on a consistent basis. It's no surprise to me a two week back injury is running on week seven right about now.

Our RB problems are not going away this year.


I Don't buy for a second they were banking on Morency

[woodbuck27]

Then what in HELL does Ted Thompson care. He is an acccountant.

End of story.


Do you hate accountants too?

No Scott I don't HATE anybody as I exercise the proper control over my life not to get sucked in by idiot psycho opportunists.

and accountants. . .

In my experience are often a tad too anal retentive to suit my open or outgoing personality as just a regular guy. Now I'm sure Scott that there are some accountants as cool as I am. :)

[woodbuck27]

PB, we're two games in and undefeated. You can tell me so after Green and Moss have both survived the season and have done better than our teams. (and in Moss's case, manages to keep his trap shut and out of trouble for the season)

The Lawyer posts.

What in hell has being 2-0 have to do with us losing a real solid Packer like Ahman Green and the fact that Randy Moss woukl have been ours (not in New England) if we had a GM with any GD sense.

Being 2-0 has to do with it because we're winning without either of them. (Not that I don't love Ahman and wish he were here, but he's not.)


Secondly if anyone wanted to go back in time you mj wanted Moss in Green Bay.

I did, but he's not, so about 5 minutes after the announcement was made, I got over it because he doesn't play for us.


Am I right or wrong on both points? mj ???

I'd say you're not.

Ahhh again like a natual Lawyer. Misleading.

Am I not right or not wrong mj?

So you miss Ahman.

I assume that is at least because he's a bettter RB now than what TT supplied or allowed to survive.

Ahman was the choice for way too many reasons for our #1 RB this season. The only reason not to go with a fair and agreeable offer early in 2007 long before FA would be if you were indecisive in general or not aware that should he reach FA he may be gone. You would be playing with his pride if you waited till FA to get him at what you considered a fair cost and then risking being accused of petty behaviour or playing games with a respected and talented Packer.

You admitted that you wanted TT to secure Randy Moss and because he even tried and failed in that pursuit he showed another weakness that even you might have seen.

I guessing then that I am right on both counts in that TT failing to retain Green and not secure Moss for a pick that might have been (again) better timed or as it played out higher than NE's offer of an earlier 4th ( a third ).

The debate here is did TT or didn't TT make an error of managing our team in regards to losing Ahman Green?

Not skilled enough to land Rany Moss compounded our offense in the clear sense that Ahman Green landed in Houston.

[vince]

Woody,

You claim to not hate Ted Thompson and you claim to not have an ego when you provide your analysis.

Why then, do you insist on standing with your nose constantly planted to one or two trees? Those couple trees are blocking your view of the whole forest!

It's a beautiful forest Woody. Step back from the tree and take a look.

[woodbuck27]

Woody,

You claim to not hate Ted Thompson and you claim to not have an ego when you provide your analysis.

Why then, do you insist on standing with your nose constantly planted to one or two trees? Those couple trees are blocking your view of the whole forest!

It's a beautiful forest Woody. Step back from the tree and take a look.

No one enjoys Packer wins more than I do but before you leave to drive a great distance you make sure that you have a well maintained or very decent vehicle.

The Packer vehicle is run down and not maintained to win now Vince.

We cannot win consistently and against solid teams when the running game is as it was left by the lose of an Ahman Green without compensation on TT's part of any real sense. If you lose a playmaker as Green was you need something to replace that talent.

We got nothing like A. Green in our backfield so common sense tells me we can't go on winning long term. TT wasn't busy enough possibly and certainly not successful preparing our 'O' this off season. That is way too obvious today and will become moreso as the season progress's.

The shelves arn't properly maintained or stocked.

The bubble has to and will break,

[vince]

Your analogy doesn't fit very well Woody, but to go with it anyway...

Vehicles don't typically refuel as they're going down the road, or become more efficient with use, but this Packer team is the kind of vehicle that gets better - not worn down - the farther you drive it. I'd like to own that kind of vehicle!

Ahman Green (through no fault of his - he's just getting old at a young man's position) tends to wear down with time. And in 4 years, he's likely to be on cynder blocks in some Texan's yard - still draining it's owner's wallet from the limited liability maintenance contract he purchased years ago.

I salute Ahman Green for his contributions to the Packer franchise. To resign him was to take on a significant risk - hardly a no-brainer as many seem to want to portray it as.

[woodbuck27]

Your analogy doesn't fit very well Woody, but to go with it anyway...

Vehicles don't typically refuel as they're going down the road, or become more efficient with use, but this Packer team is the kind of vehicle that gets better - not worn down - the farther you drive it. I'd like to own that kind of vehicle!

Ahman Green (through no fault of his - he's just getting old at a young man's position) tends to wear down with time. And in 4 years, he's likely to be on cynder blocks in some Texan's yard - still draining it's owner's wallet from the limited liability maintenance contract he purchased years ago.

I salute Ahman Green for his contributions to the Packer franchise. To resign him was to take on a significant risk - hardly a no-brainer as many seem to want to portray it as.

Vince:

We cannot win consistently and against solid teams when the running game is as it was left by the lose of an Ahman Green, without compensation on TT's part of any real sense. If you lose a playmaker as Green was you need something to replace that talent.

We got nothing like A. Green in our backfield so common sense tells me we can't go on winning long term. You can't have #1,#2 and #3 and lose #1 and expect #2 and #3 to fill, when there is little evidence that that isn't more than hope to a negative or weak response - a mere whim.

The bubble has to and will break,

[vince]

OK Woody. You are obviously intent on standing in front of a young tree and expecting a storm to blow it over and kill it.

I'm intent on watching the thriving forest continue to grow - aided by the rain that will come every now and then.

I like the view from where I stand.

[Bretsky]

I must admit; I'd be really frickin excited about the potential for this team to go far into the playoffs if TT had Landed Randy Moss and Ahman Green

We're still moving the the right direction to become a contender to make the playoffs though.

As I've stated many times, I'm content this year watching Favre break records and the defense being developed into a dominant unit

[Terry]

I must admit; I'd be really frickin excited about the potential for this team to go far into the playoffs if TT had Landed Randy Moss and Ahman Green
I would agree, especially regarding Moss. Thompson has said that he made mistakes in the efforts to get Moss. With Green, who knows? He did offer Green a deal before FA, but Green wanted to test FA. That might have been more about the length of the contract than the amount. Once Houston made that offer, the only real question is whether Thompson should have matched it.



As GOD may witness this I swear that Ted Thompson's personality (well - no personality) will kill our team in time.

Who would want to play for such a heartless man?

He's like cold stone.

Well, not according to Al Harris, at least based on today's JS Online story about Tauscher's raise:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=665764


"If you've got a happy locker room with guys that are happy about the business side of it and are enthusiastic about playing, you've got a really good football team," Harris said. "There's no bitchin'. None at all. Not that I know of."

Tauscher now counts $4.743 million against the salary cap, leaving the Packers $11.975 million of room.

"I think Ted's making a statement," Harris said. "They say there's no loyalty in the game, and in some cases that is true. But it really, really means a lot to players when they do come and take care of you.

"Money is a big thing, a real big thing. The thing about it is, if you're feeling you're underpaid, it's hard to go out every Sunday. Last year was hard for me. Ted really did (listen)."

[woodbuck27]

OK Woody. You are obviously intent on standing in front of a young tree and expecting a storm to blow it over and kill it.

I'm intent on watching the thriving forest continue to grow - aided by the rain that will come every now and then.

I like the view from where I stand.

I think or believe that is wonderful to be you Vince.

I just can't for the facts that are in my face believe that we have magically become a real winner when the body of our offence was weak and got weaker.

Control the clock on offense by running the ball. Keep the 'D' off the field and rested as much as possible.

The run sets up the big play pass but we don't have that run and the big reason is TT really believed that he had the right RB's.

How did he get there?

Imagination? Belief in fairy tales. Did he really believe that Morency and Jackson and another would get it done in a positive way?

If he really got there? Was it overconfidence or naivety?

When that backfield continues to sputter will it be just fine to respond - TT that is - in the sense "well I really thought they would do very well but a better direction seems to be prudent ".

As Packer fans we deserve a better product with our offense and to get there we needed better plasyers than we presently have on hand.We neded players like Ahman and Randy Moss.

Imagine how exdcited we would all be with those two talents in our lineup?

TT can't go on missing or shoting blanks.

[RashanGary]

I'm just glad that this team is getting better only to get better, only to find themselves with the means to get better.

TT has shown that he can out perform Sherman as a GM with one hand tied behind his back.

These Packers should be good for many, many years. Indy, NE, Pitts, Packers of the 90's/early 2000's. . . . . It's best to have sustained success. TT made a couple moves that you can look back on and say "he could have or should have done this" but it's the sum of the moves at the end of the day that are going to be the ultimate judge of TT.

You can bitch and whine about TT but at the end of the day the Packers are 2-0 and look better than they have in two years. They are also in a situation finiancially to keep making progress with no end in sight. Things seem on the right track. In 6 or 7 years we'll look back on the whole picture. Right now all we can do is bitch about the one or two moves that didn't work or take the bad with the good and realize this team is moving in the right direction. You seem to think a GM should be perfect, Woody. I think a GM should simply be better than the opposition and nothing about the direction of this team says he's not. Time will tell I guess.

[MJZiggy]

PB, we're two games in and undefeated. You can tell me so after Green and Moss have both survived the season and have done better than our teams. (and in Moss's case, manages to keep his trap shut and out of trouble for the season)

The Lawyer posts.

What in hell has being 2-0 have to do with us losing a real solid Packer like Ahman Green and the fact that Randy Moss woukl have been ours (not in New England) if we had a GM with any GD sense.

Being 2-0 has to do with it because we're winning without either of them. (Not that I don't love Ahman and wish he were here, but he's not.)


Secondly if anyone wanted to go back in time you mj wanted Moss in Green Bay.

I did, but he's not, so about 5 minutes after the announcement was made, I got over it because he doesn't play for us.


Am I right or wrong on both points? mj ???

I'd say you're not.

Ahhh again like a natual Lawyer. Misleading.

Am I not right or not wrong mj?

So you miss Ahman.

I assume that is at least because he's a bettter RB now than what TT supplied or allowed to survive.

Ahman was the choice for way too many reasons for our #1 RB this season. The only reason not to go with a fair and agreeable offer early in 2007 long before FA would be if you were indecisive in general or not aware that should he reach FA he may be gone. You would be playing with his pride if you waited till FA to get him at what you considered a fair cost and then risking being accused of petty behaviour or playing games with a respected and talented Packer.

You admitted that you wanted TT to secure Randy Moss and because he even tried and failed in that pursuit he showed another weakness that even you might have seen.

I guessing then that I am right on both counts in that TT failing to retain Green and not secure Moss for a pick that might have been (again) better timed or as it played out higher than NE's offer of an earlier 4th ( a third ).

The debate here is did TT or didn't TT make an error of managing our team in regards to losing Ahman Green?

Not skilled enough to land Rany Moss compounded our offense in the clear sense that Ahman Green landed in Houston.

TT's job is to put together a winning team Woodbuck. Who he gets to do that is immaterial as long as the wins happen. Therefore, at the moment, I'd say he's doing his job just fine. I don't feel like fighting over things that can never be and that I have zero control over. Vince is right. There's some pretty cool stuff in this forest.

[Patler]

Some of you either have short or selective memories. Per the Milwaukee Journal when Green signed with Houston March 4:


The Packers attempted to sign Green to a contract before free agency started but Green was determined to test the market. (emphasis added)

Green said as much two years earlier, before he lost the 2005 season to injury. He never threatened a hold out or anything to that effect, but routinely said he would do what he needed to in order to determine his "worth", and that when his time came he knew the money would be there from someone.

Green routinely acknowledged he might have been a bit underpaid, but said he never worried about it because his time would come again. He even shopped himself a bit in 2006, before signing the one year deal with GB because it was the best offer.

Thinking Green would have given the Packers a discount, or would have jumped at a lower deal earlier ignores the reality of the situation. For several years Green was hoping to set up a bidding war of sorts for his services. This was his only chance to do that. He wasn't about to forgo his last opportunity for a big payday.

If you want to be upset with TT for not signing Green, I have no problem with that. I had hoped he would. But I think you have to acknowledge that TT would have had to outbid the Texans for him. Personally I wish he had, but I can understand why he did not.

[Scott Campbell]

I must admit; I'd be really frickin excited about the potential for this team to go far into the playoffs if TT had Landed Randy Moss and Ahman Green.



Ahman Green can't fix their running game in my opinion. It's the blocking.

[Scott Campbell]

But I think you have to acknowledge that TT would have had to outbid the Texans for him. Personally I wish he had, but I can understand why he did not.


I think that is the reasonable position. If you're going to err and miss out on somebody, do so on the aging veteran. Or in Moss' case, the career malcontent.

The core of this team appears on the upswing. To call TT our for not signing your favorite player strikes me as nitpicking.

[Patler]

I must admit; I'd be really frickin excited about the potential for this team to go far into the playoffs if TT had Landed Randy Moss and Ahman Green.



Ahman Green can't fix their running game in my opinion. It's the blocking.

I tend to agree with that, not to imply anything negative about Green. As frequently as the backs are running into contact 2, 3 even 5 yards deep in the backfield, no back will fix the running game. Maybe some back would do better than others, but until everyone gets in sync the running game will continue to struggle.

[Scott Campbell]

Woody,

You claim to not hate Ted Thompson and you claim to not have an ego when you provide your analysis.


And I claim to have 7 wives. And BallHawk claims he's 14.


Does anyone really believe any of us?

[Patler]

And I claim to have 7 wives. And BallHawk claims he's 14.

Does anyone really believe any of us?

Ah Hah! I always suspected the number was more than 7! :D

[Rastak]

I'm just glad that this team is getting better only to get better, only to find themselves with the means to get better.

TT has shown that he can out perform Sherman as a GM with one hand tied behind his back.

These Packers should be good for many, many years. Indy, NE, Pitts, Packers of the 90's/early 2000's. . . . . It's best to have sustained success. TT made a couple moves that you can look back on and say "he could have or should have done this" but it's the sum of the moves at the end of the day that are going to be the ultimate judge of TT.

You can bitch and whine about TT but at the end of the day the Packers are 2-0 and look better than they have in two years. They are also in a situation finiancially to keep making progress with no end in sight. Things seem on the right track. In 6 or 7 years we'll look back on the whole picture. Right now all we can do is bitch about the one or two moves that didn't work or take the bad with the good and realize this team is moving in the right direction. You seem to think a GM should be perfect, Woody. I think a GM should simply be better than the opposition and nothing about the direction of this team says he's not. Time will tell I guess.

2-0 is great and the Packers have looked pretty good. Just remember it's early. Vikings were 4-2 coming off a thumping of Seattle in Seattle last year when their weaknesses started getting exposed. Sometimes it happens but I can certainly understand the optimism. That was a nice set of two wins. If Detroit beats Philly in Philly I'm gonna start wondering just how bad the Eagles are and question how big a win that really was.

[retailguy]

Woody,

You claim to not hate Ted Thompson and you claim to not have an ego when you provide your analysis.


And I claim to have 7 wives. And BallHawk claims he's 14.


Does anyone really believe any of us?


I used to believe everyone.... Then you disappointed me. Today, I believe no one.

(I have it on good information that Woody is a 22 year old Female in Phoenix.)

[retailguy]

2-0 is great and the Packers have looked pretty good. Just remember it's early. Vikings were 4-2 coming off a thumping of Seattle in Seattle last year when their weaknesses started getting exposed. Sometimes it happens but I can certainly understand the optimism. That was a nice set of two wins. If Detroit beats Philly in Philly I'm gonna start wondering just how bad the Eagles are and question how big a win that really was.

:worship: :bclap:


I swear this place is starting to look like the Titanic 15 minutes before it hit the iceberg.

I remember what the offense looked like against Philadelphia. Then I watched the Washington offense against Philadelphia.... Jason Campbell looked a lot like Warren Moon in his prime... Jason Campbell is no Warren Moon. What does that say about the Packers offense, OR, the Philadelphia defense?

[MJZiggy]

(I have it on good information that Woody is a 22 year old Female in Phoenix.)

Oh that's gonna go over well...

[Patler]

I swear this place is starting to look like the Titanic 15 minutes before it hit the iceberg.


Do you really think so?
I have been sort of surprised how strongly negative some have remained in spite of the Packers winning their last 6 games. But I agree that we have no idea how significant any of those wins are at this point of this season, because you don't know how good or bad teams are just yet.

Which just goes to prove how meaningless pre-season predictions are. There were quite a few national reporters who wondered how MM would keep the team together after they started 0-4, which they felt was almost a certainty. Many said the best the Packers could hope for was a 1-3 start. Now all of a sudden, it looks like the Packers would have been real bad had they NOT won either of the first two games, and the next two don't seem as hopeless as they did when the schedule came out.

Maybe the Packers presumed "brutal" schedule that would assure they finish worse than last year won't be so bad after all. Then again maybe some of the games that looked very winnable in May, (Detroit?) won't end up being that way.

[vince]

2-0 is great and the Packers have looked pretty good. Just remember it's early. Vikings were 4-2 coming off a thumping of Seattle in Seattle last year when their weaknesses started getting exposed. Sometimes it happens but I can certainly understand the optimism. That was a nice set of two wins. If Detroit beats Philly in Philly I'm gonna start wondering just how bad the Eagles are and question how big a win that really was.

:worship: :bclap:


I swear this place is starting to look like the Titanic 15 minutes before it hit the iceberg.

I remember what the offense looked like against Philadelphia. Then I watched the Washington offense against Philadelphia.... Jason Campbell looked a lot like Warren Moon in his prime... Jason Campbell is no Warren Moon. What does that say about the Packers offense, OR, the Philadelphia defense?
No doubt with the team's first loss you will joyously claim the sinking of the Titanic.

This team is young, on the rise, in excellent financial position and has a six game winning streak. No matter how much doom you insist upon, there is no other team in the league that can make that statement.

I expect a very tough game today, and frankly, I'll be surprised with a win, but this team is on the rise regardless of the doomsdayers say.

[Rastak]

2-0 is great and the Packers have looked pretty good. Just remember it's early. Vikings were 4-2 coming off a thumping of Seattle in Seattle last year when their weaknesses started getting exposed. Sometimes it happens but I can certainly understand the optimism. That was a nice set of two wins. If Detroit beats Philly in Philly I'm gonna start wondering just how bad the Eagles are and question how big a win that really was.

:worship: :bclap:


I swear this place is starting to look like the Titanic 15 minutes before it hit the iceberg.

I remember what the offense looked like against Philadelphia. Then I watched the Washington offense against Philadelphia.... Jason Campbell looked a lot like Warren Moon in his prime... Jason Campbell is no Warren Moon. What does that say about the Packers offense, OR, the Philadelphia defense?
No doubt with the team's first loss you will joyously claim the sinking of the Titanic.

This team is young, on the rise, in excellent financial position and has a six game winning streak. No matter how much doom you insist upon, there is no other team in the league that can make that statement.

I expect a very tough game today, and frankly, I'll be surprised with a win, but this team is on the rise regardless of the doomsdayers say.


A loss wouldn't mean much at all, unless it was 40-0 or something.

[vince]

Not you Ras. For a Viking fan, you've got great perspective.

I was referring to the Kool-Aid guy.

[Rastak]

Not you Ras. For a Viking fan, you've got great perspective.

I was referring to the Kool-Aid guy.

Oh, I know....just throwing in my two cents as I usually do.....

[Bretsky]

Woody,

You claim to not hate Ted Thompson and you claim to not have an ego when you provide your analysis.


And I claim to have 7 wives. And BallHawk claims he's 14.


Does anyone really believe any of us?


You having seven wives may be more believable than Ballhawk being 14 :lol:

[Rastak]

Woody,

You claim to not hate Ted Thompson and you claim to not have an ego when you provide your analysis.


And I claim to have 7 wives. And BallHawk claims he's 14.


Does anyone really believe any of us?


You having seven wives may be more believable than Ballhawk being 14 :lol:


On an unrelated note, one is hard enough, who'd want 7?

[Bretsky]

Woody,

You claim to not hate Ted Thompson and you claim to not have an ego when you provide your analysis.


And I claim to have 7 wives. And BallHawk claims he's 14.


Does anyone really believe any of us?


You having seven wives may be more believable than Ballhawk being 14 :lol:


On an unrelated note, one is hard enough, who'd want 7?


how about 7 mistresses ??

[Rastak]

Woody,

You claim to not hate Ted Thompson and you claim to not have an ego when you provide your analysis.


And I claim to have 7 wives. And BallHawk claims he's 14.


Does anyone really believe any of us?


You having seven wives may be more believable than Ballhawk being 14 :lol:


On an unrelated note, one is hard enough, who'd want 7?


how about 7 mistresses ??


That might work.

[retailguy]

Not you Ras. For a Viking fan, you've got great perspective.

I was referring to the Kool-Aid guy.

So, then, I guess I don't have "great perspective". :? :wink:

Whatever.

No, I won't be screaming that the Titanic is sinking if they lose tomorrow. We need several more weeks to see what the coaching staff can do with the OL, AND the RB's before we know what we've got. Right now, we know the scheme is not working well, but there must be something else they can try at this point (gotta be, I hope)

But to sit here and say that the Packers match up well against San Diego is just ridiculous. Now, to this point, Norv has reminded me of his last head coaching gig, but if their defense plays the way it should, and Tomlinson & Gates play well, it could look pretty bad.

Everyone is talking about our "great" defense, and they've played well, much better than the last couple of seasons, but they also gave up 5.9 yards per rushing attempt last week.... The NYG have a good OL, but not to the level of SD, and Ward is no LT.

Let's not count the chickens yet before they hatch, ok? That's all I'm saying.

Rastak, can you chime in again so they get "great perspective".... :?

[Rastak]

Not you Ras. For a Viking fan, you've got great perspective.

I was referring to the Kool-Aid guy.

So, then, I guess I don't have "great perspective". :? :wink:

Whatever.

No, I won't be screaming that the Titanic is sinking if they lose tomorrow. We need several more weeks to see what the coaching staff can do with the OL, AND the RB's before we know what we've got. Right now, we know the scheme is not working well, but there must be something else they can try at this point (gotta be, I hope)

But to sit here and say that the Packers match up well against San Diego is just ridiculous. Now, to this point, Norv has reminded me of his last head coaching gig, but if their defense plays the way it should, and Tomlinson & Gates play well, it could look pretty bad.

Everyone is talking about our "great" defense, and they've played well, much better than the last couple of seasons, but they also gave up 5.9 yards per rushing attempt last week.... The NYG have a good OL, but not to the level of SD, and Ward is no LT.

Let's not count the chickens yet before they hatch, ok? That's all I'm saying.

Rastak, can you chime in again so they get "great perspective".... :?


You bet Retail.......thanks ladies and gentleman, for my next great trick I shall show you a Vikings offensive touchdown this Sunday. A feat nobody but I with my great perspective could predict.

:lol: :wink:

[HarveyWallbangers]

From rotoworld.com


John McClain of the Houston Chronicle believes the Texans will cut Ahman Green if he doesn't play this preseason.

McClain thinks the signing of Marcel Shipp is an indicator and that Chris Brown might actually be a better option. "At least Brown gained some yardage against the Saints," writes McClain. When it comes down to it, Ahman is old, too expensive, and a lingering injury waiting to happen. He just isn't very good, so this shouldn't be a huge surprise.

[Chevelle2]

packinpatland, your wish can come true! He can come back to GB!

[Carolina_Packer]

I don't think age was the only factor in letting him walk into free agency. I wonder if they thought he was a square peg to the ZBS's round hole. If Sean Alexander is out there still, why would the Pack clamor to get Green back? Over the hill is over the hill. They seem to like to have young guys to develop, not older veteran guys.

[PackerTimer]

This thread is funny. So many people are eating crow on this one.

[Zool]

There's some really brutal stuff in some old threads. I guess this is why none of us are paid to work for pro football teams.

[hoosier]

There's some really brutal stuff in some old threads. I guess this is why none of us are paid to work for pro football teams.

Funny how so much of this brutal stuff comes from people complaining about TTs supposed cheapness or ego or whatever drives him to purge the roster of aging vets. Ron Wolf never got nearly as much grief, and he actually let a few good ones go along with the bath water--Bryce Paup, Craig Hentrich, Adam Timmerman. Aside from Wahle (and cutting him was arguably inevitable), I can't think of a single player that TT has traded, cut or not resigned who has turned around and performed well elsewhere. Maybe Favre will be the second one who "got away" from TT, who knows.

[Partial]

There's some really brutal stuff in some old threads. I guess this is why none of us are paid to work for pro football teams.

Speak for yourself 8-) Junior Scout Assistant level 1 right here.

[Zool]

There's some really brutal stuff in some old threads. I guess this is why none of us are paid to work for pro football teams.

Speak for yourself 8-) Junior Scout Assistant level 1 right here.

We'll I tell you what P, you're better at talent evaluation than Tank. I suppose that's a compliment.

[Chevelle2]

There's some really brutal stuff in some old threads. I guess this is why none of us are paid to work for pro football teams.

Speak for yourself 8-) Junior Scout Assistant level 1 right here.



Walker draws a constant double team and opens everything else up. The man is a true threat. Definitely will get a first for him



Holt? Holt is more a posession guy than a big play big time receiver like walker. Walker is certaintly a better deep threat and explosive player.

Should I continue?

[AV David]

"yes...this and the walker saga were mistakes...especially walker."




Because no team can win without a whiny head case to disrupt team chemistry?
_________________

[The Gunshooter]

Partial's read on Walker's talent was right. He just didn't know the guy was Pacman junior.

[sheepshead]

I don't know. My recollection is that Green wanted to test the waters - and when he did, Houston bowled him over.

I think it'll take two years before we know the effects of his deal with Houston. Right now he looks good for the Texans - but his deal goes, I think, for four years.

Besides, how much ground would he gain behind the Pack's o-line. More than the other RB's here, sure, but even a great back needs some blocking.

No question...none, that not matching that deal was the right thing to do, just as it was with Wahle and Rivera.

[digitaldean]

I don't know. My recollection is that Green wanted to test the waters - and when he did, Houston bowled him over.

I think it'll take two years before we know the effects of his deal with Houston. Right now he looks good for the Texans - but his deal goes, I think, for four years.

Besides, how much ground would he gain behind the Pack's o-line. More than the other RB's here, sure, but even a great back needs some blocking.

No question...none, that not matching that deal was the right thing to do, just as it was with Wahle and Rivera.

FIRE TED THOMPSON....oops, sorry :oops: Just a reflex action on the latest "heads should roll" threads.
:wink:

[SkinBasket]

There's some really brutal stuff in some old threads. I guess this is why none of us are paid to work for pro football teams.

Speak for yourself 8-) Junior Scout Assistant level 1 right here.



Walker draws a constant double team and opens everything else up. The man is a true threat. Definitely will get a first for him



Holt? Holt is more a posession guy than a big play big time receiver like walker. Walker is certaintly a better deep threat and explosive player.

Should I continue?

You should, but you need to plan on writing a book if you do.