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09-23-2007, 02:46 AM
It's been a long time since the Green Bay Packers have had an intimidator on defense - maybe as far back as the late Wayne Simmons - but they seem to have one now in Nick Barnett.

The past few years, the Packers' defense could be described as milquetoast at best, devoid of a Ray Lewis, Rodney Harrison, John Lynch-type presence. But as the New York Giants game last Sunday showed, this group has a different idea of how to play the game, and a lot of it starts with the attitude of Barnett, the undersized but frenetic middle linebacker.

"I just play," Barnett said. "That's just the attitude we're taking on. I try to lead by example. Go out there and just play. That's where you have to go out and be mean, you have to be a mean defense if you want to be one of the best.

"Look at all the defenses that were great. They were mean. That's the way we're trying to play."

It certainly looked that way against the Giants when the defense was called for two personal fouls and three illegal contacts. Barnett was at the forefront of the action, walking a tightrope between what is legal and what the officials might view as over the top.

There was the shot he gave running back Derrick Ward on the first series of the game. Quarterback Eli Manning's pass was well overthrown to the sideline but Barnett plowed into Ward and knocked him out of bounds. The fans wanted a penalty.

"Did they call it?" Packers linebackers coach Winston Moss said when asked if Barnett was taking too much of a chance on the play.

Then there was the play in which Barnett slammed his hands into prone wide receiver Plaxico Burress after he caught a 6-yard pass. Giants fans didn't take too kindly to Barnett pushing Burress and knocking the ball out of his hands after it looked like the play was dead.

"Did they call a penalty on that play?" Moss said. "I didn't see anything."

And finally, there was Barnett pushing receiver Amani Toomer in the back somewhere near the 5-yard bump zone and knocking him to the ground. Toomer got up and tried to cut Barnett at the knees and Barnett responded by pinning Toomer on the ground with his legs while raising his arms as though he wasn't doing anything.

"Did they call a penalty on him for that?" Moss asked.

Barnett may be treading on the center line between fair and foul play, but at this point the Packers aren't asking him to tone it down because he's not hurting the team. Barnett said if his actions were drawing penalties he wouldn't be doing them.

"I'm not going to play dirty, but if it's in the game, it's in the game," Barnett said. "That's how it is. That's how I played in college. I played aggressive, over the top, to the edge. I let the referees sort it out, and I'm going to just play football. That's my job."

Ever since breaking his right hand last year and being forced to play the final five games of the season with a club cast, Barnett said, he has been playing with an edge to him. But even before that he didn't look at football as a friendly game and insists he doesn't care what other players think about him.

"I'm not going to play soft," Barnett said. "A lot of guys are going to be out there talking among each other like it's a big fraternity, but when you have a different jersey on, there's no friendship, there's none of it.

"If you don't like me, you don't like me. I don't need your vote for the Pro Bowl, I don't need all that (expletive). I'm here to win games and play football. So don't expect us to be friends when the game is over. Afterwards, we can talk, but during the game we're not going to be friends."

The results on the field have been pretty good so far for Barnett and the defense. During the Packers' six-game winning streak dating to last season, the defense has allowed an average of 149.5 passing yards and 11.3 points per game, held teams to a 16.7 red-zone touchdown efficiency rate and limited opposing quarterbacks to a passer rating of 43.5.

Opponents have thrown for four touchdowns and been intercepted 12 times during that span.

Barnett, of course, isn't responsible alone for those numbers. But he leads the team in tackles with 24, ranks third among all NFL linebackers with two passes defensed and played a big role in the Packers holding Philadelphia running back Brian Westbrook scoreless in the season opener.

"Smart football is important, but to me the most important aspect of our football team as we move forward is we have to continue to be aggressive," Packers coach Mike McCarthy said this week. "And I think we've accomplished that the first two weeks."

Moss would have a hard time lecturing Barnett about the thin line he may be walking given that he played the game the same way during his 11 years as an NFL linebacker, five of them with the Oakland Raiders. Naturally, he sees nothing wrong with Barnett playing with an attitude.

Moss is unsure if Barnett's play has rubbed off on his teammates, but given the way linebacker Brady Poppinga went after Burress after his blind-side hit on A.J. Hawk and the way Cullen Jenkins defended himself after getting hit after the whistle by offensive linemen Shaun O'Hara and David Diehl it appears the Packers are showing some spark on defense.

"Go play your game, but obviously if guys are going to mess with our guys, cheap shot our guys, we're not going to let that go unnoticed," said Poppinga, who received a 15-yard penalty for his confrontation with Burress. "We're going to address it and basically let those guys know they're not going to get away with it. We're not going to just roll over and let them do that."

There may be a question whether Barnett's on-field demeanor carries over to his personal life given the fact that he was arrested in June for an altercation with a woman in an Appleton bar. Two misdemeanor counts of disorderly conduct are expected to be filed and Barnett and his attorney intend to fight them vigorously.

Barnett has a very public presence in the city after trying to make a go of it as a nightclub owner. He ran into resistance from the city council, which stripped the FiveSix Ultra Lounge of its liquor license because it claimed there were too many police calls, leading to its closing.

He said his football persona turns on only when he puts on his helmet.

"I'm not a nasty person at all off the field," Barnett said. "You can talk to all these guys and whoever. I may have an incident which we still have to go to court before I say anything about that. But you can ask any of these reporters who have seen me outside this facility and out and about.

"Ask this community. I've never been a nasty person to people.

"I'm not going to let anybody push me or be mean to me, but I'm not an outright (expletive)."

b bulldog
09-23-2007, 07:08 AM
As of now, this is dead on. Hopefuly Hawk will step up today and let his presence be known.

BallHawk
09-23-2007, 07:21 AM
Yeah, wasn't Hodge supposed to be our hitman? :whist:

RashanGary
09-23-2007, 07:33 AM
I refuse to think Hawk isn't a better LB after two games this season. He outplayed Barnett last season. Barnett is being put in position to make tackles. Hawk takes on blockers at times so Barnett can get to the ball. He had the job of slowing Shockey off of the line of scrimmage last week, which takes away from his ability to tackle.

He made a monster hit on Shockey on the sideline on a high ball. Barnett never makes bone crunching hits. Those are the hits that make a WR or TE scared and drop balls later in the game. I'm a huge fan of the way Hawk plays. He hasn't been perfect, but I think he's a stronger, more impactfull player than Barnett. Two games that Barnett was given the job of making every tackle while Popp and Hawk did the dirty work isn't going to change my opinion. There is more to football than what shows up in the stat line.

RashanGary
09-23-2007, 07:36 AM
Hawk, Bigby, Collins, Poppinga and Harris are all physical players for their positions in the back 7.

Woodson and Barnett are average. Barnett has gotten more physical, but he's still just average in that department. He plays with a nasty streak, I've always givin him that, but he's not going to scare anyone other than 185 lb rookie WR's.

Him8123
09-23-2007, 07:53 AM
agree JH, Hawk does do alot of things that dont go into the stat books, the "dirty work" he has been out of place a few times this year, but he`s young and still learning. He and Barnett will be the leaders of that defense before too long.

Merlin
09-23-2007, 08:49 AM
I refuse to think Hawk isn't a better LB after two games this season. He outplayed Barnett last season. Barnett is being put in position to make tackles. Hawk takes on blockers at times so Barnett can get to the ball. He had the job of slowing Shockey off of the line of scrimmage last week, which takes away from his ability to tackle.

He made a monster hit on Shockey on the sideline on a high ball. Barnett never makes bone crunching hits. Those are the hits that make a WR or TE scared and drop balls later in the game. I'm a huge fan of the way Hawk plays. He hasn't been perfect, but I think he's a stronger, more impactfull player than Barnett. Two games that Barnett was given the job of making every tackle while Popp and Hawk did the dirty work isn't going to change my opinion. There is more to football than what shows up in the stat line.

I knew when a positive story about Barnett came about that there would be someone who reverted back to the attitude that "Barnett isn't that good". Reality really sucks for those who refuse to acknowledge it I guess. Barnett is finally getting the recognition that he deserves after leading the defense since his rookie season. Hawk is not the reason Barnett can now make the tackles. Barnett lead the team in tackles long before Hawk came along. If anything, Barnett spent most of last season mopping up for Hawk and Poppinga's mistakes. The next thing you will say is that Hodge should have got the nod over Barnett. Is Hawk good, sure he is. But, he isn't the reason for Barnett's career success. Barnett if anything is more responsible for Hawks' success. Hawk has been quiet this year but I suspect he will get his kudo's when the time is right. Barnett has also gotten over his one knock, over pursuing the play. He progressed and got better every year with that. Hawk is suffering from a serious case of over pursuit, and he to will get better with time. This is also the first time in Barnett's career to have the same DC two years in a row. So before you go making naive comments about Barnett, you may want to take off those Rose colored glasses and give Barnett the credit he deserves for thriving in 4 different defensive schemes during his career. How many has Hawk been in so far? This is by far not a knock on Hawk, I think he is a great player but refusing to give credit where it is due is just naive.

PlantPage55
09-23-2007, 08:53 AM
Barnett must have had quite a potty mouth that day! :lol:

oregonpackfan
09-23-2007, 09:20 AM
Merlin makes a valid point about Barnett dealing with 4 defensive coordinators in 4 years. That is a huge obstacle to overcome as a young player in the NFL

Another factor to consider in Barnett's having to learn the most important defensive position in the NFL--middle linebacker. His first two years at Oregon State he played at safety. Barnett played OUTSIDE linebacker his last two years. Barnett NEVER played MLB at Oregon State!

So what do the Packers do? They place him at MLB--a position he has never played and expect him to start as a rookie.

Despite leading the team in tackles for 3 or his 4 years, Barnett Bashers wonder why he did not magically play at an all-pro level at MLB.

Barnett is playing at considerably ABOVE average level, IMO. It is time people began to acknowledge it.

RashanGary
09-23-2007, 09:32 AM
I'm not knocking Barnett. I think he's good. I just don't think he's a very physical player. I think Hawk is similar but tougher and therefor better.

b bulldog
09-23-2007, 09:33 AM
Hawk's liability in coverage has been displayed and his tackling has been iffy this season. When Hawk got leveled by Plax in the Giants game and just walked away and Poppy came to his defense, that showed me a little something. I don't think Hawk has been very intense this year although I think he has a monster game for us today if we win this game. Barnett is our best lb at this moment, case closed.

b bulldog
09-23-2007, 09:35 AM
a TOUGH PLAYER WOUL;D HAVE GOTTEN IN pLAX'S FACE , could you imagine Lewis or Urlacher just walking away after a cheap shot was delivered on them.

RashanGary
09-23-2007, 09:40 AM
Barnett is our best lb at this moment, case closed.

Why, because he has more tackles and you said so?

RashanGary
09-23-2007, 09:41 AM
Forget that Hawk outplayed Barnett in his rookie year during a full 16 last year. Barnett had two good games. He's the best. . . .

Terry
09-23-2007, 09:45 AM
"I'm not going to play soft," Barnett said. "A lot of guys are going to be out there talking among each other like it's a big fraternity, but when you have a different jersey on, there's no friendship, there's none of it.

"If you don't like me, you don't like me. I don't need your vote for the Pro Bowl, I don't need all that (expletive). I'm here to win games and play football. So don't expect us to be friends when the game is over. Afterwards, we can talk, but during the game we're not going to be friends."

Hear, hear! I'm delighted to hear of him talking that way. Just what we need on defense. Reminds me of my Father's (RIP) lawyer (probably deceased by now) used to say. He couldn't stomach all that chummy bullshit between opposing lawyers in and out of the courtroom. It was a war out there as far as he was concerned.



There may be a question whether Barnett's on-field demeanor carries over to his personal life given the fact that he was arrested in June for an altercation with a woman in an Appleton bar.

Well, pardon me, but horseshit! There is no such question until some writer invents it. Nitschke was a lamb off the field. Sure, some players aren't so nice off the field, but it has nothing to do with playing tough.

Harlan Huckleby
09-23-2007, 09:46 AM
I refuse to think Hawk isn't a better LB after two games this season. He outplayed Barnett last season.


I thought Barnett was better last year too.

Where's Wist? Maybe he can settle this argument.

RashanGary
09-23-2007, 09:48 AM
You just don't like Hawk and McCarthy becuase they are ugly, HH.

Your opinion doesn't count :)

Harlan Huckleby
09-23-2007, 09:51 AM
Another factor to consider in Barnett's having to learn the most important defensive position in the NFL--middle linebacker. His first two years at Oregon State he played at safety. Barnett played OUTSIDE linebacker his last two years. Barnett NEVER played MLB at Oregon State!

Good point. Probably Barnett & Hawk are both best suited to WSLB. Barnett is outshing Hawk despite playing inside.

Harlan Huckleby
09-23-2007, 09:54 AM
You just don't like Hawk and McCarthy becuase they are ugly, HH.

Ugly!? He's gorgeous! JH, I think I need to drag-out the old AJ HAwk Jock Sniffers Club Picture. You are certainly a candidate for membership.

http://www.sequelsolutions.biz/hawksniffers.jpg

MadtownPacker
09-23-2007, 09:55 AM
Being able to argue about which Packer LBer is tougher sure is a nice change of pace. :D

b bulldog
09-23-2007, 09:58 AM
56 is playing better thT IS WHY i THINK HE IS BETTER. hE IS BETTER IN COVERAGE, HE IS TACKLING better and he plays faster.He is also the leader on D. Put your man crush to the side and admit it. Hawk will eventually be as good or better, it is only his second year. That play by Plax when he leveled Hawk and Poppy came to his defense shows me that he isn't all there at the moment. AJ is needed bigtime today and I think he will have a monster game.

b bulldog
09-23-2007, 09:59 AM
Good point Mad

MadtownPacker
09-23-2007, 10:02 AM
Yeah but it is going to take a collective effort by Barnett, Hawk, and Pop to keep LT and Gates from deciding the game. I just hope the guys come out and treat the chargers like they stole something.

b bulldog
09-23-2007, 10:12 AM
The D in general but the lb's will really need to step up today.

b bulldog
09-23-2007, 03:22 PM
barnett=STUD!