Something Everyone Seems to Forget

[footballfever]

The screen pass IS an extension of the run game, so when everyone goes jumping off a bridge because we only had 42 yards on 13 carries and we have no run game. Go back to the tape and count in the screens, I've only had a chance to watch the first quarter. But in that quarter 2 screen passes went for 20 yards and factored into the run total that gives us 62 yards on 15 carries for an average of 4.13 yards. Suddenly all hope doesn't seems o lost. I was watching NFL Matchup on ESPN prior to the San Diego game, it was on at 2 AM Sunday morning. Merrill Hodge brought that point up and I thought I would apply it to our game. Makes sense to me and I am not worried at all about our running game or apparent lack of.

[LEWCWA]

The running game didn't bother me in the Charger game, like it did in weeks 1 and 2. They came out with the idea they weren't going to run. Even though the vikes are stout against the run, I believe they need to get back to trying to establish it somewhat....late season you have to be able to run the football!

[SkinBasket]

The screen pass IS an extension of the run game, so when everyone goes jumping off a bridge because we only had 42 yards on 13 carries and we have no run game. Go back to the tape and count in the screens, I've only had a chance to watch the first quarter. But in that quarter 2 screen passes went for 20 yards and factored into the run total that gives us 62 yards on 15 carries for an average of 4.13 yards. Suddenly all hope doesn't seems o lost. I was watching NFL Matchup on ESPN prior to the San Diego game, it was on at 2 AM Sunday morning. Merrill Hodge brought that point up and I thought I would apply it to our game. Makes sense to me and I am not worried at all about our running game or apparent lack of.

That's all fine and good, but there is still a startling lack of production and results in our traditional run game. Just because the screen numbers bring our stats to an acceptable level doesn't mean that our run game isn't awful and that we'll need that traditional running game at some point this season.

[superfan]

This week is not the week to try to get the running game on track. The interior Viking defense is one of the toughest in the league to run against.

A game plan similar to the Charger game should be the right approach to beat the Vikings - heavy dose of passes to the tight ends and wideouts, screens and RB flat passes instead of a traditional running attack.

A stubborn commitment to the run game would be a huge mistake against this defense. We need to run enough to keep them honest, but I would be very surprised if we have over 20 rushes.

Another bad matchup the following week against the Bears. I'm not expecting much good to be said about the running game until after the bye week. Might be able to run on the Redskins, haven't been following them this year.

[The Leaper]

That's all fine and good, but there is still a startling lack of production and results in our traditional run game. Just because the screen numbers bring our stats to an acceptable level doesn't mean that our run game isn't awful and that we'll need that traditional running game at some point this season.

At this point, we are playing teams built exclusively to attack the run at the expense of the pass...so who the hell cares? If we throw 90 times on Sunday and do not run the ball once, I'll be just fine with that.

[Zool]

That's all fine and good, but there is still a startling lack of production and results in our traditional run game. Just because the screen numbers bring our stats to an acceptable level doesn't mean that our run game isn't awful and that we'll need that traditional running game at some point this season.

At this point, we are playing teams built exclusively to attack the run at the expense of the pass...so who the hell cares? If we throw 90 times on Sunday and do not run the ball once, I'll be just fine with that.

I'll be ecstatic if we have 90 plays on Sunday. That would be some serious time of possession.

[Patler]

The screen pass IS an extension of the run game, so when everyone goes jumping off a bridge because we only had 42 yards on 13 carries and we have no run game. Go back to the tape and count in the screens, I've only had a chance to watch the first quarter. But in that quarter 2 screen passes went for 20 yards and factored into the run total that gives us 62 yards on 15 carries for an average of 4.13 yards. Suddenly all hope doesn't seems o lost. I was watching NFL Matchup on ESPN prior to the San Diego game, it was on at 2 AM Sunday morning. Merrill Hodge brought that point up and I thought I would apply it to our game. Makes sense to me and I am not worried at all about our running game or apparent lack of.

Which is why I started the thread about total yards from the backs. It's still low.

[3irty1]

This is exactly right. That's why I say our offense is 1.5 dimensional 8-)

In the west coast offense there are a lot of things to do that you can replace the run. These high percentage passes and trick plays are nearly as good as hand offs and even harder to stop. I hope we can pick up the traditional run game before it gets cold but as long as this is working, McCarthy will keep it up.

[Badgerinmaine]

I'll be ecstatic if we have 90 plays on Sunday. That would be some serious time of possession.

That...or the Packers are giving up touchdowns on every kick return :mrgreen:

[LL2]

Holmgren used this approach quite a bit in Favre's early years and the team struggled with the running game. It's not ideal, but the short pass approach has been done. I don't think it was the year GB won the SB. They finally got Bennett and Levens in a RBBC the year they won. So, we better get something going, because we will be one dimensional all year and other teams will have GB pretty much figured out.

[RashanGary]

The Eagles went to the NFC championship for like 3 or 4 years in a row with this type of offense.

If they want to get to or win the SB, they will have to improve. They seem to be getting better each week. They just need to continue taking one step after another.

[4and12to12and4]

I couldn't care less about the running game. Hey, Indy didn't have a defense for 16 games last year, and then looked like (and beat) the Ravens in the playoffs. If we keep winning and we keep spreading out the defenses with our pass game, the run will come. Everybody gives Indy's o-line so much credit for their running success. And Addai. Well, when Addai went out in the Saints game, a nobody rookie came in and averaged over 6 yards a carry. Why? Because nobody gives a shit about their run game, they don't have enough time in the week to figure out Manning. Favre is having that same effect, he just has to keep up this level of play, he has been unreal.

He obviusly has confidence in James, and by the way, one of the reasons for that is that when a play breaks down, James has the instincts to say to hell with the route, and break back towards Favre giving him a clear chest to throw into with the defender behind him. He does it all the time, and Favre looks for it. Jennings and Driver do it also. Fergy never did. That was his biggest downfall, if he was covered, he'd just keep running AWAY from Favre COVERED.

Watch how many broken down plays James ends up being in. He has that natural instinct to redirect to a safe place. Bubba's playing inspired, as well as Lee. It's crazy, everyone's catching everything. And Brett is throwing miracle lazers perfectly everywhere. I don't know what the hell is going on, although the line protected unbelievably good for the pass Sunday. I expected them to get knocked all over the place, and miss tons of blitz assignments, and it didn't happen. Sure, Favre probably avoided 4 or 5 sacks, but still. He sometimes had 7 seconds to throw the ball. It was unreal.

The Vikes have no idea what they are about to see this week. Our team is playing at a VERY HIGH LEVEL, and I'm Lovin' It!!

[3irty1]

I couldn't care less about the running game. Hey, Indy didn't have a defense for 16 games last year, and then looked like (and beat) the Ravens in the playoffs. If we keep winning and we keep spreading out the defenses with our pass game, the run will come. Everybody gives Indy's o-line so much credit for their running success. And Addai. Well, when Addai went out in the Saints game, a nobody rookie came in and averaged over 6 yards a carry. Why? Because nobody gives a shit about their run game, they don't have enough time in the week to figure out Manning. Favre is having that same effect, he just has to keep up this level of play, he has been unreal.

He obviusly has confidence in James, and by the way, one of the reasons for that is that when a play breaks down, James has the instincts to say to hell with the route, and break back towards Favre giving him a clear chest to throw into with the defender behind him. He does it all the time, and Favre looks for it. Jennings and Driver do it also. Fergy never did. That was his biggest downfall, if he was covered, he'd just keep running AWAY from Favre COVERED.

Watch how many broken down plays James ends up being in. He has that natural instinct to redirect to a safe place. Bubba's playing inspired, as well as Lee. It's crazy, everyone's catching everything. And Brett is throwing miracle lazers perfectly everywhere. I don't know what the hell is going on, although the line protected unbelievably good for the pass Sunday. I expected them to get knocked all over the place, and miss tons of blitz assignments, and it didn't happen. Sure, Favre probably avoided 4 or 5 sacks, but still. He sometimes had 7 seconds to throw the ball. It was unreal.

The Vikes have no idea what they are about to see this week. Our team is playing at a VERY HIGH LEVEL, and I'm Lovin' It!!

I agree. It is just a rumor that you need to run the football.

[3irty1]

Here's one way to look at it.

So far in 3 Games the Packers have:
174 Rushing yards
861 Passing yards
1045 Total Yards

70.2 of our passing yards are yards after the catch (YAC)

If you add our YAC and rushing yards you get 244.2, we'll call this yards on the ground.

Now lets look at another team. Although the Bengals may have problems right now, their problems do not extend to their high powered offense. Both them and the Packers have been playing from behind lately, both teams have at least two Playoff caliber teams and some highly thought of defenses except the Browns and Giants.

The Bengals in 3 games have:
267 Rushing Yards
937 Passing Yards
1204 Total Yards

They have 42.9 YAC and 309.9 Yards on the ground

Now I'm not trying to prove that we are as highly powered an offense as the Carson Palmer, Ocho cinco, and Rudi Johnson... But merely making the case that we are not as 1 dimensional as we look on paper. If you do the math you can see this:

23.37% of the Packers offensive yards have been "on the ground."
25.7% of the Bengals offensive yards ahve been "on the ground."

I guess the point is that in our west coast offense the short high-percentage passes (especially ones with blockers) are a great way of faking a run game. I'd like to see a more conventional run game by the time it gets cold but right now we are one of the most complete teams in the league.

[b bulldog]

I agree that we can go pretty far in the NFC with an offense that is lacking a running game but that offense against the three top AFC teams will have us in deep trouble.

[RashanGary]

I agree that we can go pretty far in the NFC with an offense that is lacking a running game but that offense against the three top AFC teams will have us in deep trouble.

The Patriots will KILL us. One thing that they do better than any team in the league is put pressure on the pass game. They play a flawless zone coverage. They have guys in shallow drops, they look out of position but they break on out patterns and intercept the ball on those kinds of plays at an alarming rate. I would not want to play the Patriots healthy and without a run game.

We have to hope Moss and at least two key defenders go down for us to have a shot at them.

[footballfever]

I agree that we can go pretty far in the NFC with an offense that is lacking a running game but that offense against the three top AFC teams will have us in deep trouble.

The Patriots will KILL us. One thing that they do better than any team in the league is put pressure on the pass game. They play a flawless zone coverage. They have guys in shallow drops, they look out of position but they break on out patterns and intercept the ball on those kinds of plays at an alarming rate. I would not want to play the Patriots healthy and without a run game.

We have to hope Moss and at least two key defenders go down for us to have a shot at them.

You forget the Cheatriots three opponents thus far were NYJ, San Diego and Buffalo. Not exactly three teams playing inspired football right now. I believe at our level of play right now our chances would be about 40-60 against them . They take away an opponents run game and force them to throw, that would play right into our hands. Favre would tear them apart the same as he has with the teams he's played so far. A lot of what goes into these games is gameplanning and preparation. After 17 years of doing it I would think Brett is one of the best. He knows exactly what he's lookin at on tape and how to translate it on the field. Dude's like the terminator right now with some crazy computer screen in his mind breaking down all the information on the field and presenting him with the best possible scenarios and exposing and exploiting them. Like Phill Simms said after the Philip Rivers pass to V Jack in the endzone, you can't defense a perfect pass. So those cheatin bastards can steal all the signs the want from us, you can't defense a perfect pass or a near perfect quarterback. Brett Favre would be their worst nightmare right now.

[Carolina_Packer]

I was thinking it would be cool to market t-shirts that had a person holding up a middle finger with the words, "Hey, Belicheck, you can steal this sign for free!" How do you think they would sell?

I don't want to see anyone coronate the Patriots. They are a great team, but the season has highs and lows. You never know what is going to happen. They are going to continue to be good, but could find their own struggles by year's end.

I would love to play the Patriots in the Super Bowl, but for now, let's stop dreaming and get back to reality. The Vikings, and then the Bears, and then the next opponent, and let's get the running game going. It's really been fun, but let's not get too carried away.

[footballfever]

I was thinking it would be cool to market t-shirts that had a person holding up a middle finger with the words, "Hey, Belicheck, you can steal this sign for free!" How do you think they would sell?

I don't want to see anyone coronate the Patriots. They are a great team, but the season has highs and lows. You never know what is going to happen. They are going to continue to be good, but could find their own struggles by year's end.

I would love to play the Patriots in the Super Bowl, but for now, let's stop dreaming and get back to reality. The Vikings, and then the Bears, and then the next opponent, and let's get the running game going. It's really been fun, but let's not get too carried away.

Thats a great idea for a t shirt!! I agree with what you're saying about gettin back to the ground here, everyone is flying high. I think the way the team is approaching games week to week is tremendous. I don't get the sense that anyone on the team or among coaches is looking any further forward than the week ahead. The gameplanning has been tremendous and it feels good to have everything coming together. It's okay to dream though, fantasy matchups throughout the year are gonna come up and the Patriots happen to be one of them. I like the game against Dallas, that's gonna be a real test. But we have the Queens this week, so lets just take it a game at a time. I think after this past game I'm pretty well spent, I don't remember such anxiety leading into a game. Not for a long time anyway, it's nice playing competetive football again against the leagues best.

[The Leaper]

They have guys in shallow drops, they look out of position but they break on out patterns and intercept the ball on those kinds of plays at an alarming rate. I would not want to play the Patriots healthy and without a run game.

True, but a strong armed QB like Favre is the difference in making those out patterns much harder for NE to cover...which opens up the middle of the field. Neither NY or Buffalo had even a mediocre armed QB to threaten NE...and Rivers has very little experience.

The only way to truly attack NE's defense is to have a big armed QB who can make every throw (especially a hard out that is too quick for the LBs to get to) and a TE or slot receiver capable of attacking the middle of the field to keep their LBs guessing.

You also need a creative offensive game plan that keeps the Pats off balance.