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motife
09-26-2007, 09:59 PM
Packers' Next Opponent: Dog day afternoons
Packers favored, but Vikings capable of upset
By BOB McGINN
bmcginn@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Sept. 25, 2007

Bob McGinn
E-MAIL

Green Bay - Underdogs have ruled the Green Bay-Minnesota series at the Metrodome so far this decade.

The Packers have won three of the last four meetings in Minneapolis, all when the Vikings were favored. Green Bay also won as an underdog in 2000, as did the Vikings in 2001 and '02.

Minnesota's 23-20 victory as a 2-point pick in '05 was the only time that the favorite has been able to hold serve.

Although the Packers (3-0) are favored by 1½ points over the Vikings (1-2) Sunday at the Metrodome, several assistant coaches and scouts for teams that recently played the Vikings predicted a close game.

"Green Bay's on a roll but winning on the road in this league is hard," an offensive assistant said. "When you're 1-2 and you're playing at home, you better not lose. Their backs are against the wall."

The Vikings' Brad Childress was swept a year ago by Mike McCarthy in a hookup of rookie coaches. In 17 previous seasons, the Vikings had been swept by the Packers just twice: 1997 and 2000.

Childress' predecessor, Mike Tice, was 5-4 against Green Bay. Before Tice, Dennis Green was 11-9 from 1992-2001.

"If 4 (Brett Favre) plays like he has been . . . but you know what? Brad will have those guys ready," one personnel man said. "They've been in every game. The Packers haven't done well up there, have they?"

Mike Holmgren's team surely didn't, going 1-6 at the Metrodome. Ray Rhodes was 0-1, Mike Sherman went 3-3 and McCarthy is 1-0.

"It's a great rivalry, it might be a great game and I imagine it will be a real close game," another assistant said. "The way the Packers are playing, my goodness. But Minnesota is going to be dangerous. They know they can't go three (games) down."

The sweep last season put Green Bay ahead in the regular-season series, 46-44-1. Of the last four meetings, three were decided by a field goal and the other by six points.

"As good as the Vikings are on defense, I think you just have to manage the game," a third assistant said. "You don't have to score 30 points a lot to win with that defense. As good as Minnesota plays defense, they're going to be in every football game. So if you keep it close at home, anything can happen."

OFFENSE
SCHEME

Childress holds a play sheet and talks to coordinator Darrell Bevell, but Bevell calls the plays. One coach said Childress' design was too much like Eagles coach Andy Reid's last year and that he has gone off on his own more this year. It's a West Coast passing game with a zone running game. The Vikings, who rush 48.1% of the time, are tied for 22nd in give-aways (seven), 25th in points (17.0) and 26th in yards (289).

RECEIVERS

Bobby Wade (5 feet 10 inches, 186 pounds) ran 40 yards in 4.69 seconds 4½ years ago. Not only can't he run but his hands aren't great, either. He's a clever little slot receiver. Troy Williamson (6-1½, 203), the seventh pick in '05, sat out last week with a tight hamstring but should play. He runs 4.35. However, he still has problems finding and hanging on to the ball and isn't polished. Former Packer Robert Ferguson (6-1½, 210) and rookie Sidney Rice (6-3½, 200) also play. Ferguson knows the system intimately and has three receptions. Rice, a second-round pick, lacks top speed but is a superb athlete and hasn't been timid in traffic. TE Visanthe Shiancoe (6-4½, 250) left the Giants in March for $18.5 million over five years. He can stretch the field (4.65 speed) but runs just OK routes and is just an OK blocker. Old pro Jim Kleinsasser (6-3, 272) still blocks well.

OFFENSIVE LINE

RT Ryan Cook (6-6½, 328) continues to prove he can't play but the touted left side of T Bryant McKinnie (6-8, 335) and G Steve Hutchinson (6-4½, 313) hasn't pass-protected very well, either. Cook, a second-round pick in '06, is a converted center. He lacks quickness, doesn't play strong and isn't holding up. RG Artis Hicks (6-4½, 335) splits time with Anthony Herrera (6-2, 315). Hicks isn't a bad athlete and started 31 games for the Eagles, but makes too many mistakes. Herrera is short and chubby; he plays better than he looks. C Matt Birk (6-4½, 317) is 30 pounds heavier than last year and isn't getting knocked around as much. A former Pro Bowl player Birk, 31, gets by on brains. McKinnie had a rough outing in Kansas City but remains one of the game's top seven or eight left tackles. Some of Hutchinson's dominance as a run blocker has been lost in the zone scheme.

QUARTERBACKS

Tarvaris Jackson (6-2, 232) still is hobbled by a groin injury and isn't expected to play. This is the sixth team for Kelly Holcomb (6-2½, 216). His record as a starter is 8-14. Holcomb ran 5.06 seconds in the 40 and scored 22 on the Wonderlic intelligence test coming out of Middle Tennessee State as a free agent in '95. He's competitive and shows enough arm strength. He just isn't mobile. Former Badger Brooks Bollinger (6-1, 205) is No. 3.


RUNNING BACKS

Rampaging rookie Adrian Peterson (6-1½, 220), the seventh pick in the draft, is off to a tremendous start. He has rare 4.4-second speed for his size, is able to make quick cuts in traffic and finishes runs with power and intensity. Although his upright style invites shots, Peterson is dealing out as much punishment as he receives. His hands are good. However, the Vikings don't trust him in blitz pickup. Chester Taylor (5-10½, 213), a 1,216-yard rusher in '06, is due back from a hip injury. Taylor's 4.65 speed isn't impressive but he runs low, shows some dart and is relentless. The third-down back has been dependable Mewelde Moore (5-10½, 209). FB Tony Richardson (6-1½, 238), a solid 13-year veteran, is back from an arm injury.

DEFENSE

SCHEME

New coordinator Leslie Frazier, who spent four seasons under the Eagles' Jim Johnson and the last two under the Colts' Tony Dungy, replaced the departed Mike Tomlin. Using the same "Tampa-2" zone system, Frazier is blitzing more than his predecessor. He has no compunction about sending six, either. The Vikings, who play a 4-3 "under" front, rank fourth in take-aways (eight) and points allowed (12.0) and tied for 11th in yards allowed (310.3).


DEFENSIVE LINE

This is one of the league's best groups. Opponents are averaging 67.3 rushing yards per game and 2.5 per carry. NT Pat Williams (6-3, 340) and DT Kevin Williams (6-5, 311) are exceptional players. Pat plays mean, has amazing quickness and is very difficult to move. Kevin has tremendous range, athletic ability and pass-rush skill. RE Ray Edwards (6-4½, 268), a fourth-round pick in '06, played 37% of the downs as a rookie behind Darrion Scott (6-3, 289). Today, Scott is coming off the bench behind Edwards, who is putting together the complete game that he only flashed at Purdue. He's equally effective against run and pass, plays with power and is giving more effort. LE Kenechi Udeze (6-3, 281) isn't quite as explosive as Edwards but also is strong and can run. Rookie DE Brian Robison (6-3, 259), a fourth-round pick, enters on passing downs and has generated consistent heat. Former Badger DE Erasmus James (6-4, 266) hasn't played because of knee problems.



LINEBACKERS

E.J. Henderson (6-1, 245), back in the middle after two seasons on the weak side, has been all over the field making hard tackles. He's strong, aggressive and runs 4.75, which is a little slow for his position's deep coverage responsibility in "Tampa-2." WLB Chad Greenway (6-2½, 242), the 17th pick in '06, sat out all last year with a blown knee. He leads in tackles (33), is fast and active, and covers well. He just isn't a big take-on player and has been making too many mistakes. SLB Ben Leber (6-3, 244), a six-year NFL starter, is disciplined and effective.


SECONDARY

The Vikings have two really good cornerbacks in Antoine Winfield (5-8½, 180) and Cedric Griffin (6-0, 203). Winfield, 30, said Monday that he wanted to shadow Donald Driver. Pound-for-pound, Winfield might be the NFL's toughest player. His tackling is extraordinary. Obviously, Winfield loses some battles at the ball on the basis of height. But he still runs and covers well. Griffin, a second-round pick in '06, is underrated. He uses his long arms to be physical at the line and downfield. His 4.51 speed is OK. Most teams, however, still throw at Griffin. Marcus McCauley (6-0½, 203), a third-round pick, has been so-so as the rookie nickel back. Former Packers SS Darren Sharper (6-1½, 210) and FS Dwight Smith (5-9½, 201) return from last year. Sharper, in his 11th season, remains a premier ballhawk because of his rare anticipation and great hands. He's tackling more reliably than ever, too. Smith is adequate. He's short and his 4.65 speed is a problem, but he has a nose for the ball and will hit.

SPECIAL TEAMS
Former Packer Ryan Longwell, 33, is kicking off better than in the past (67.9 average) and is steady on field goals. The 52-yard boot he missed off the upright in Week 2 was his first misfire after 19 makes. Chris Kluwe, in his third season, is one of the top three or five young punters in the NFL. He's a two-stepper with awesome leg strength. At times, he out-kicks his coverage. Wade is neither dangerous nor secure on punt returns. The kick-return game is in flux. LBs Heath Farwell and Vinny Ciurciu lead second-year assistant Paul Ferraro's capable units.

motife
09-26-2007, 10:15 PM
............

BallHawk
09-26-2007, 10:17 PM
Of all the upcoming games, this is the one that concerns me most. We're finally getting national attention and we're playing a division rival on the road. We need to come in focused and prepared otherwise we could easily lose this game.

mission
09-26-2007, 11:34 PM
I agree 100% with the concern. Last week I had a retarded kool aid IV running and *knew* we would beat the chargers. Still picking the pack to win relatively big but a close game where a turnover decides the outcome wouldnt surprise me at all.

Harlan Huckleby
09-26-2007, 11:59 PM
My God, you nervous nellies. Look at their recievers! Look at their coach! Look at their QB!

This sounds corny, but only the Packers can beat the Packers this game. More specifically, only Favre can beat the Packers. If Favre is hot, the Packers will score 3 touchdowns. That Minnesota offense can't keep up.

Maxie the Taxi
09-27-2007, 07:54 AM
but only the Packers can beat the Packers this game. More specifically, only Favre can beat the Packers.

We live and die with #4. Hope he doesn't get greedy.

The Leaper
09-27-2007, 09:07 AM
I agree with Harlan. The only team that can beat Green Bay this week is Green Bay.

They are 3-0 against playoff teams from last year. Their defense is good enough to force turnovers, especially against an offense with few legitimate playmakers and Kelly H at QB. Their pass protection is good enough to give Favre planty of time in the pocket to attack a weak Viking secondary. The road crowd will also be notably weak than in past years...the Vikes can't give their tickets away.

If Green Bay plays disciplined football, like it has in the first 3 weeks, then I don't give Minnesota much of a chance. If we make a bunch of mistakes and keep the Vikings in the game, then we will have a scare...but it will be by our own doing.

run pMc
09-27-2007, 09:35 AM
Harlan, you hit it right on the head. I think that only GB can beat GB in this game.

This seems like a classic trap game to me, with CHI next week, and MIN being a division rival desperate for a W at home. If Favre plays sharp, the OL blocks, and GB takes care of the ball on O, we'll be OK. If the D plays with intensity, stops the run, and gets some pressure on K-Ho then we'll be OK there.
I think the ST's will be a wash with a slight edge to GB.

I expect a low scoring, 17-13 type of game.
Here's hoping for a GB W.

Maxie the Taxi
09-27-2007, 09:53 AM
If you're nervous about this game, listen to the McCarthy press conference of yesterday at Packers.com. Also, listen to James Jones' interview. This team is well-coached, well-prepared. The togetherness we're sensing on the field is encouraged and nurtured by McCarthy.

The rookies on this team don't know Minnesota from San Diego or the Giants. All they know is they're 3 and 0 and hungry for more. The second year men haven't lost to Minnesota. That's a good portion of the team.

The young guys' attitude will actually be good for the old-timers like Favre. Sometimes, as an old guy, you worry a little too much and are too realistic. In that case it's good to be surrounded by a bunch of confident young guys who think they're bulletproof.

McCarthy's comments about the running game were interesting. He made it sound like he's going to test the running game a bit against MN. Whether that was the truth or just blue smoke remains to be seen.

I know if Lombardi was coaching this team, he wouldn't change up his game plan just because the opposing DL has a few studs against the run. In fact, you could bet the first series or two would be runs right at the studs.

...But then he did have an all-pro OL and Taylor and Hornung in the backfield.

It'll be a good game, another good test for this young team.

Harlan Huckleby
09-27-2007, 09:57 AM
I know if Lombardi was coaching this team,

He'd crap his pants. Pass to daylight!

Carolina_Packer
09-27-2007, 10:07 AM
I know if Lombardi was coaching this team,

He'd crap his pants. Pass to daylight!

Hilarious! First, I don't think Lombardi would have constructed the team like it has been, but even Vince, if he inherited this very team from TT would have to pass more than run. I would think above all else, the Lombardi would try and win, however that was most possible. Of course he'd ditch the ZBS most likely!

Maxie the Taxi
09-27-2007, 10:52 AM
I know if Lombardi was coaching this team,

He'd crap his pants. Pass to daylight!

Hilarious! First, I don't think Lombardi would have constructed the team like it has been, but even Vince, if he inherited this very team from TT would have to pass more than run. I would think above all else, the Lombardi would try and win, however that was most possible. Of course he'd ditch the ZBS most likely!

Good one, Harlan. But Carolina, I can't agree.

Vince was as old school as it gets. In 1958 under Scooter McLean, the Packers passed 348 times and rushed 345 times. When Lombardi took over the next year, with virtually the same team, he passed 268 times and rushed the ball 421 times. He was always run first and then pass. I'm probably bald now because I'd pull my hair out watching them back then, frustrated, calling for the pass when Vince ran and ran and ran. (Actually, the QB called the plays, but the QB knew what Vince wanted.)

And, I agree, Lombardi would have junked the ZBS. His was a power game all the way, mano a mano.

wist43
09-27-2007, 11:11 AM
My God, you nervous nellies. Look at their recievers! Look at their coach! Look at their QB!

This sounds corny, but only the Packers can beat the Packers this game. More specifically, only Favre can beat the Packers. If Favre is hot, the Packers will score 3 touchdowns. That Minnesota offense can't keep up.

HH, have you been to a game at the "teflon tent"??? Place is a house of horrors... on every level. Not just b/c the Packers have stunk there, but b/c it's simply a terrible stadium - the substandard venue, in and of itself is enough to make it difficult on visiting teams.

The Vikings may have their deficiencies, but that stadium is a terrible place to play, and anything can happen there.

Zool
09-27-2007, 12:00 PM
My God, you nervous nellies. Look at their recievers! Look at their coach! Look at their QB!

This sounds corny, but only the Packers can beat the Packers this game. More specifically, only Favre can beat the Packers. If Favre is hot, the Packers will score 3 touchdowns. That Minnesota offense can't keep up.

HH, have you been to a game at the "teflon tent"??? Place is a house of horrors... on every level. Not just b/c the Packers have stunk there, but b/c it's simply a terrible stadium - the substandard venue, in and of itself is enough to make it difficult on visiting teams.

The Vikings may have their deficiencies, but that stadium is a terrible place to play, and anything can happen there.

I concur. I swore I would never go again in like 1999, but last year I got a ticket and went. Theres some metal signage in the middle of the endzone at the top row, about 10 rows behind where I was sitting. A guy showed up with some thick glove on and banged the living hell out of that metal through the entire first quarter. He started in during the second until security escorted him from the premesis.

oregonpackfan
09-27-2007, 02:26 PM
As much as I despise the Vikings, the Packers cannot underestimate them when playing in the Metrodome.

swede
09-27-2007, 03:25 PM
As much as I despise the Vikings, the Packers cannot underestimate them when playing in the Metrodome.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dsteenswede44/valkyrie.jpg

No. But we can!

mmmdk
09-27-2007, 06:21 PM
This game is the "superbowl" for the Vikings - Packers have selfdestructed in the Metro numerous times. I'm worried about this game (also injuries to players).

Packers should win it but the turnover battle will be paramount.

Joemailman
09-27-2007, 06:55 PM
If the Packers can defend against Peterson as well as they did against Tomlinson, Vikings may not score a TD. When the Packers have the ball, it's all about protecting Favre. Vikings have 11 sacks to go with their great run defense, so it won't be easy. Clifton and Tauscher really did the job last week though.

mmmdk
09-27-2007, 07:22 PM
Just a note; Packers with Favre at the helm are 5-11 at the metrodome. The only pounding came in the 1997 win 27-11, the rest are pretty darn close wins.

1997 Week 14 Dec 1 W 27-11 at Minnesota Vikings - Packers dominate.
2000 Week 16 Dec 17 W 33-28 at Minnesota Vikings - Packers control.
2003 Week 9 Nov 2 W 30-27 at Minnesota Vikings - close game.
2004 Week 16 Dec 24 W 34-31 at Minnesota Vikings - ultra close game.
2006 Week 10 Nov 12 W 23-17 at Minnesota Vikings - close game.

It's gonna be rough!!!

Just win baby :pack:

Harlan Huckleby
09-27-2007, 07:53 PM
My God, you nervous nellies. Look at their recievers! Look at their coach! Look at their QB!

This sounds corny, but only the Packers can beat the Packers this game. More specifically, only Favre can beat the Packers. If Favre is hot, the Packers will score 3 touchdowns. That Minnesota offense can't keep up.

HH, have you been to a game at the "teflon tent"??? Place is a house of horrors... on every level. Not just b/c the Packers have stunk there, but b/c it's simply a terrible stadium - the substandard venue, in and of itself is enough to make it difficult on visiting teams.

The Vikings may have their deficiencies, but that stadium is a terrible place to play, and anything can happen there.


IN YO FACE, WISTY :D

Favre terrible in the Twin Cities? Not anymore
By JASON WILDE

GREEN BAY — There would be a terrific irony to Brett Favre breaking the NFL's all-time touchdown pass record against the Minnesota Vikings at the Metrodome if not for one small thing:

The guy has owned the joint the last four years.

"I'm trying to downplay that," the Green Bay Packers quarterback said Wednesday. "Would you work with me here?"

No can do.

While Favre's less-glowing assessment — "Better than I have been in previous years" — isn't wrong, there's no denying the numbers.

In the Packers' last four games in the dome — during which the Packers have gone 3-1 — Favre has completed 100 of 149 passes (67.1 percent) for 1,221 yards, with 10 touchdowns, two interceptions and two sacks for an overall rating of 108.9.

He has three straight 300-yard passing games there and his lone loss was in 2005, a 34-31 setback on a last-second field goal.
Those numbers stand in stark contrast to Favre's first 11 visits, in which the Packers went 2-9 — including losing seven of Favre's first eight games there, marked by the unforgettable Terrell Buckley/Eric Guliford and T.J. Rubley games — and Favre tossed 12 touchdowns compared to 16 interceptions and was sacked 23 times for a 71.9 rating. So while Favre is cognizant of his recent successes at what was once his personal house of horrors, he hasn't forgotten those early, ugly performances.

"It's been a pretty ... tough place for us to play. ... It has bad memories for me," said Favre, who tied Dan Marino's career touchdown pass record of 420 by throwing three in last week's victory over San Diego. "I consider it one of the greatest challenges I face every year. The year we won the Super Bowl (1996), we lost there. Even in good seasons, it has been a bad memory for us, so every time I go there, I can't say I'm overly excited about it. That's probably been the toughest place by far in my career to play."

So while everyone is talking about Favre turning back the clock with his early season play — a premise the quarterback disagrees with, by the way — he'd rather not turn it back this Sunday, when the Vikings are hoping they can provide a 1990s flashback and help him reach another milestone.

"You always hate to be on the end of a record that's established. I think it would be more of a source for pride if we could help him tie the record for most career interceptions with George Blanda," Vikings coach Brad Childress said, referring to Favre's 275 career interceptions, two shy of Blanda's NFL record. "That would probably be one that (the players) would be more excited about."

Mr. Excitement

Favre, meanwhile, would prefer to keep the excitement to a minimum.

In fact, as long as the Packers win Sunday, he'd be fine if the two most exciting things to happen to him this week would be cutting his finger at home on Monday night and taking a call from NFL commissioner Roger Goodell on Wednesday morning.

Coach Mike McCarthy said the cut, which Favre suffered on his right (throwing) hand, was a "small cut" but was enough to cause the coach to give some of Favre's reps to backup Aaron Rodgers during team drills in practice Wednesday.

"He's going to be fine," McCarthy said. "He's played with a lot worse."

Favre considered Goodell's call to be a nice gesture, but that didn't seem like a big deal to him, either.

"He just was congratulating me on tying the record. A very nice phone call, but nothing more than that," said Favre, who said the call was prearranged by Goodell's office and Packers PR director Jeff Blumb. "The only thing I want to do is win this game. If we have to run five (touchdowns) in, which I don't see happening, that would be awesome. If I have to throw five, that would be awesome. If we win and I don't throw any, that would be great. I just want to win the game."

Circa 1996?

With Favre playing the way he is, the Packers have a much greater chance of that.

While the run game remains stalled, Favre has bounced back from his opening-weekend struggles against Philadelphia (23-of-42, 206 yards, no touchdowns, one interception, 58.2 rating) with back-to-back boffo games, which coupled with the Packers' undefeated start has caught the national media's attention.

"Everyone wants to say, 'Oh, Brett Favre is playing so much differently now. He is playing like he is 27,' " said Favre, who enters Sunday's game having completed 64 percent of his passes (80 of 125) for 861 yards, with six TDs and two INTs for a 93.5 rating. "I don't know exactly what that means except they are saying it from a statistical comparison to 10 years ago.

"They go, 'Oh man, that reminds me of the old Brett.' The old Brett was here three weeks ago against Philly. I haven't made that dramatic of a change in three weeks.

"I mean, everyone's on this Brett Favre bandwagon now, (saying), 'He's playing the game differently.' I don't see it that way."

McCarthy doesn't disagree — "He had stretches last year where he played as well as he has in the last few games, so this is not something new," McCarthy said — but the obvious difference in Favre, according to ex-Packers and current Vikings safety Darren Sharper, is the way he has reduced his mistakes.

"He looks like the MVP that he was," said Sharper, who played with Favre from 1997 through 2004. "He's making all the right reads. Has confidence in his receivers. Putting the ball on the spot. "I think (the big thing is) he's making better decisions. You don't see him making some of those throws he was making previously. He looks like that guy who is picking teams apart."

Yet Favre said he won't be any different Sunday than he's been on his other recent visits to the Twin Cities.

"My approach to this year has been no different than any other year. I realize that if I make a lot of mistakes, that puts our team in jeopardy. We don't win many games when I do that," Favre said. "And I think coming into this year, I felt probably more pressure than any other season, offensively speaking.

"I'm approaching this game as I have any other game. I'm well aware of what's happened over there in the past. I know we're struggling running the ball, and more is expected of the passing game. But I don't think I'm going into the game with every drop-back going, 'Don't turn it over. Don't turn it over. Don't throw it down the field.' I'm just playing the game."

KYPack
09-27-2007, 08:55 PM
Guess I've got too much "Baggie Dome" paranoia.

That place scares me, even tho we've done better there lately.

That & those dancing bears, the Williams Boys, give me fits!

oregonpackfan
09-27-2007, 09:20 PM
As much as I despise the Vikings, the Packers cannot underestimate them when playing in the Metrodome.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dsteenswede44/valkyrie.jpg

No. But we can!

Where did you get that picture, Swede! I just may now have a new fantasy woman! :lol:

b bulldog
09-27-2007, 09:31 PM
This game scares me most of the next three games we play. I hate that stupid dome!

swede
09-28-2007, 07:44 AM
As much as I despise the Vikings, the Packers cannot underestimate them when playing in the Metrodome.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dsteenswede44/valkyrie.jpg

No. But we can!

Where did you get that picture, Swede! I just may now have a new fantasy woman! :lol:

Sorry, Mom is already seeing someone from Minnesota.

swede
09-28-2007, 07:54 AM
There was a period of time, perhaps during the Dickey at QB era, the same kind of freak injury bug that is now biting our corps of running backs once bit the Packers' offensive line. And yet game in and game out the constantly shuffling personnel protected the quarterback.

With names like the "Steel Curtain" and "Purple People Eaters" fresh in everyone's memory some local writer tabbed our ever-changing offensive line the "Patchwork Quilt". I thought it was funny.

And I agree with some who are saying that we'll be okay. It's not like this team hasn't already handled changing personnel in the Department of Running Backs.