Calling an audible.....

[CaptainKickass]

Ok -

So the biggest difference in Favre's play, that I can see on the field during games, is that he seems to have been either "allowed" to, or is plain out just calling more audibles.

That's been the biggest obvious difference between Favre and Manning over the years. Manning fakes a bunch of audibles, yes, but he also lines 'em up, gets 'em on the mismatch, and then tosses the rock.

It doesn't seem like Favre's ever really attempted to be an "active" audibler the way Manning is - up until this year.

I'm also super impressed with Favre's milking of the play clock and his patened "barking" at the line to try to get the defense to jump early.



So - Expand - discuss - ridicule - insult - ponder - comment etc etc. Thats what we do here on this board.

[MJZiggy]

when M3 first started he explained this. He said that with each play he calls there are a number of options to the way the play can be run depending on how the defense lines up. The whole thing was designed to give Favre more flexibility to run the play to his best protection according to what he sees when he gets behind center, so some of it is that he is allowed more freedom. He's always had a talent for the hard count and I think it's fun to see if people jump....

[Tarlam!]

There's been a lot written about this and it seems to be the big motivator for Brett Favre to play the game somewhat less carelessly.

He appears to have taken responsibility to the next level. He has always scoffed at the thought of becoming a coach (source-Brett Favre), but he has clearly demonstrated to me through the 1st 4 games of this season that he is not only an implementor.

[Patler]

He has always scoffed at the thought of becoming a coach (source-Brett Favre),

...until last off season. He made a casual reference to it once that I saw in an interview. I was very surprised because he had insisted previously that coaching was not in his future.

Could he be a coach in the future? I think so.

Favre talks much, much more about strategy, offensive philosophy, etc. than he ever has. Not too long ago (perhaps as recently as 2005) he seemed to almost scoff at sticking to a plan rather than just trying to "make plays". By giving Favre pre-snap options for what play will be run on each and every down, and making him responsible for deciding among the options of available plays in addition to the options within the play after the ball has been snapped, McCarthy has given Favre a personal investment in the offensive scheme. Favre seems to be relishing it. It almost seems like a new challenge for him, and he always responds to challenges.

[jramsey495]

Ok -

So the biggest difference in Favre's play, that I can see on the field during games, is that he seems to have been either "allowed" to, or is plain out just calling more audibles.

That's been the biggest obvious difference between Favre and Manning over the years. Manning fakes a bunch of audibles, yes, but he also lines 'em up, gets 'em on the mismatch, and then tosses the rock.

It doesn't seem like Favre's ever really attempted to be an "active" audibler the way Manning is - up until this year.

I'm also super impressed with Favre's milking of the play clock and his patened "barking" at the line to try to get the defense to jump early.



So - Expand - discuss - ridicule - insult - ponder - comment etc etc. Thats what we do here on this board.


yeah, i notice a big difference in him milking the play clock and trying to figure out what the defense is doing.. i don't know why all qb's don't do that. it bugs the hell out of me when manning does it becuase i can't stand that guy but it's a smart thing to do.. all the credit in the world to mccarthy for getting him to play smarter, no matter how he did it. and i'll have to give credit to tt for hiring a coach that favre respects enough to listen to.

and it was perfect that 421 came on an audible. reminded me of the sb where he audibled and threw the td to... was it rison or freeman that he audibled on? i think it was rison's.

[Noodle]

You're right, Andre Bad Moon Rison, a terrific FA pickup.

[Patler]

You're right, Andre Bad Moon Rison, a terrific FA pickup.

I would hardly call it "terrific". In fact, other than the Super Bowl TD he did not have much of an impact at all. He only had 13 receptions for 135 yards and 1 TD. If it wasn't for the opening TD in the Super Bowl, I suspect many would have forgotten that he was even on the team.

Injuries at WR necessitated a late season pickup, Rison was looking for work, so Wolf signed him. No investment at all. If it didn't work out they would have canned him quickly. They sure made no effort to re-sign him.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You're right, Andre Bad Moon Rison, a terrific FA pickup.

I would hardly call it "terrific". In fact, other than the Super Bowl TD he did not have much of an impact at all. He only had 13 receptions for 135 yards and 1 TD. If it wasn't for the opening TD in the Super Bowl, I suspect many would have forgotten that he was even on the team.

Injuries at WR necessitated a late season pickup, Rison was looking for work, so Wolf signed him. No investment at all. If it didn't work out they would have canned him quickly. They sure made no effort to re-sign him.

In 5 freaking games. Not bad considering he had to learn an offense, gain brett's trust, etc. How many other guys could do that.

Considering that Free led the team with 56, the 13 isn't that low.

They didn't make an effort to resign him, not because of skill but because Wolf and others thought he wouldn't accept being a non-start. Rison himself said he was hurt about that and would've accepted the role. Rison, like many other players I feel was at the stage of his career where he wanted to be with a winner and woulda been quite happy to play with us.

Considering he played 5 more years in the league it was imho a bad decision. Furthermore when looking at who they had and where they were going it was even worse. Beebe played one more year..at the time he was the 2nd leading receiver (excluding TE), Mays never progressed, mickens was "just a guy," desmond never developed, brooks gave us one more good year.

In 97 we had only Free and Brooks as decent receivers.

Wolf while a great GM made some poor decisions at the end..rison, jones, simmons, etc.

[Patler]

The Packers had pretty much run out of receivers by the end of the season. Brooks was out for the season, Freeman was hurt, Mayes was a rookie, Howard was really just a kick returner, so who ever they picked up was going to play and the ball would be thrown to them. Rison had to start, and under the circumstances his 13 receptions were no great accomplishment.

[HarveyWallbangers]

In 5 freaking games. Not bad considering he had to learn an offense, gain brett's trust, etc. How many other guys could do that.

Considering that Free led the team with 56, the 13 isn't that low.

13 in 5 games still isn't impressive. He didn't really do much in the playoffs either--except for the big catch in the Super Bowl. God bless him though for helping in some small way. BTW, Freeman had 56 catches in 12 games. (Plus, he was a second year player who had to gain Brett's trust, right?)

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The Packers had pretty much run out of receivers by the end of the season. Brooks was out for the season, Freeman was hurt, Mayes was a rookie, Howard was really just a kick returner, so who ever they picked up was going to play and the ball would be thrown to them. Rison had to start, and under the circumstances his 13 receptions were no great accomplishment.

If that was true..whoever. How come in 97 the #3 receiver had 18 catches in 12 games. That without Keith Jackson who snared more balls the year before.

As for 1 touchdown. Ok. Perhaps you don't wanna talk about the other shoulda been td where brett missed him and threw it behind him on what shoulda been an 80 yarder.

You simply are doing revisionist history. Prior to Rison, they were 2-2, after..undefeated.

And, convenient that you don't mention the td in the san fran game.

And, my point was that it was a fine accomplishment in the short time he was here. He wasn't a west coast receiver and had to learn different routes.

The offense was really designed to get production at flanker, where newcomer Rison was still adapting to the system. And, don't kid yourself, Favre's best plays came when he broke the pocket and threw on the run. It takes a very disciplined secondary to stay with the receivers until Favre crosses the line of scrimmage. With veteran free-lancers such as Rison and Beebe, Favre loved to scramble and look for them downfield.

Furthermore, considering how the rest of those receivers turned out we definitely coulda used him.

1. Mayes..el busto
2. Mickens..oh, lord
3. beebe..tail end of career
4. Brooks..done in one

etc, etc. etc. You of all people know the numbers don't lie. And Rison's prior to GB #s were great and post GB were well above average.

Rison played 5 more years and was very productive for 5. Not going to discuss the 2 more in the CFL.

There is no way you can tell me that in 97 you would have preferred any of the #3 receivers over Rison.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

In 5 freaking games. Not bad considering he had to learn an offense, gain brett's trust, etc. How many other guys could do that.

Considering that Free led the team with 56, the 13 isn't that low.

13 in 5 games still isn't impressive. He didn't really do much in the playoffs either--except for the big catch in the Super Bowl. God bless him though for helping in some small way. BTW, Freeman had 56 catches in 12 games. (Plus, he was a second year player who had to gain Brett's trust, right?)

Learning the FLANKER on the fly.

[retailguy]

You simply are doing revisionist history. Prior to Rison, they were 2-2, after..undefeated.



Welcome to the negative side of the fence. Arguing with the mob is fruitless.

You can be right, but you'll still be wrong... (FWIW, I'll doom you and your argument by telling you I agree with you. I think the team at the end of the year without Rison would not have been as good as the team was with Rison. Clearly he helped regardless of the touchdown or no touchdown)

[the_idle_threat]

Considering all of the circumstances, I'd also agree that he was a great pickup for the time we had him.

He may have been a small addition in the grand scheme of things (especially when you look at the stats) but he was exactly what we needed at the time, and his contributions---particlularly his rapport with Favre that had developed previously when they were teammates in Atlanta---might have gotten us over the hump. Scoring early on that big play in the Super Bowl was huge.

I was pretty disappointed when Wolf let him go in the offseason.

[ZachMN]

[quote="CaptainKickass"]Ok -

So the biggest difference in Favre's play, that I can see on the field during games, is that he seems to have been either "allowed" to, or is plain out just calling more audibles.

That's been the biggest obvious difference between Favre and Manning over the years. Manning fakes a bunch of audibles, yes, but he also lines 'em up, gets 'em on the mismatch, and then tosses the rock.

It doesn't seem like Favre's ever really attempted to be an "active" audibler the way Manning is - up until this year.

I'm also super impressed with Favre's milking of the play clock and his patened "barking" at the line to try to get the defense to jump early.


YES! I was saying this all the time when Shermy Sherm was the coach. I remember the press asking Favre about the play calling and he waould say something to the effect of 'guys have to make the plays that are called' and then the talking heads would go on and on about how brilliant Manning was at surveying the D and choosing the right play based on what he sees at the line. MM is turning out to be the best thing TT has done in my opinion. The players have an attitude. There is a passion. I like it!!! He knows how to use all the tools that Favre has and that's saying a lot! Favre has seen it all has been exposed, beaten down etc. so he knows what to do and where to go. Here's to more of the new phase Brett seems to be in- one that could go on for a couple more years!!!!!

[KYPack]

"Rison played 5 more years and was very productive for 5. Not going to discuss the 2 more in the CFL."

Tyrone, ya freakin' cracky.

Rison played TWO more seasons. He was very productive for us and helped out a lot that year. Andre did a lot of work with the young recievers and brought a lot of energy to his job. His gig was to run routes the DB's respected to leave room for our twin terror TE's, Chew and Keith Jackson. 13 grabs was just a bit of his contributions.

One thing he did for the team may have lead to his demise. At the end of the season, Holmgren was worrying aloud to his coaches on how to fire the team up before an upcoming game. An assistant told Mikey that he had heard Rison could deliver a king hell pre game pep talk. Rison was approached and agreed to give his firey speech, knowing it was fresh material to the Pack.

Rison did a great job, getting the team all fired up, but combining humor. All observers said it was the best pre game pep talk they'd ever heard. Him and Holmgren even worked a bit out that would allow MH to make a joke at Rison's expense, kidding him about the hip hop delivery.

Rison did every thing he was asked and expected to be back next year. The Pack never made him an offer. Andre signed with the Chiefs. He was their top reciever with 72 catches for 1000+ yards. He was pissed and was never told why the Pack let him go.

The scuttlebut of the time was that Wolf & Holmgren were impressed with Rison's quick hold on the team, but paranoid that it could backfire. Rison had a rep as a clubhouse lawyer & Packer mgt didn't want to deal with his alleged dark side.

That read him and Brett made in the Super Bowl is how I remember Dre. He could read secondaries like a QB. He read that hot seam and ran the route. The Gunslinger saw it too, & put that baby right in there. He should have played for us in '97.

[esoxx]

reminded me of the sb where he audibled and threw the td to... was it rison or freeman that he audibled on? i think it was rison's.


Both.

[Patler]

You simply are doing revisionist history. Prior to Rison, they were 2-2, after..undefeated.



Welcome to the negative side of the fence. Arguing with the mob is fruitless.

You can be right, but you'll still be wrong... (FWIW, I'll doom you and your argument by telling you I agree with you. I think the team at the end of the year without Rison would not have been as good as the team was with Rison. Clearly he helped regardless of the touchdown or no touchdown)

No, revisionist history is making Rison out to be a savior. Did he help? Sure he helped. My point was simply that there was nothing "terrific" about getting him. He was a talented player who had rubbed several managements the wrong way, and was available because he was released midyear by Jacksonville, I think.

I will stick with my earlier comment. If he had not caught the Super Bowl TD pass, by now most Packer fans would have forgotten he was even on the team. He would have been a mere anecdote. A late season addition to an injured WR corp.

[the_idle_threat]

Nobody is painting him as a savior. That's laying it on a bit thick, isn't it? He was just a good pickup when the team needed one. Kind of a "right place at the right time" situation. I might even call it a "terrific" pickup given the circumstances and the result. You might not, but then it's a matter of opinion and there's no right or wrong answer.

Rison was a known quantity as a talented veteran receiver. He was not a mere Taco Wallace. (Speaking of whom ... if we remember a guy like Taco Wallace so many moons later, why might we not remember "Bad Moon" Rison?)

There was concern about his issues 'tween the ears, but his pre-existing friendship with Favre seemed to make that less of a concern. Obviously Wolf and/or Holmgren didn't see things the same way.

[Deputy Nutz]

The Packers had pretty much run out of receivers by the end of the season. Brooks was out for the season, Freeman was hurt, Mayes was a rookie, Howard was really just a kick returner, so who ever they picked up was going to play and the ball would be thrown to them. Rison had to start, and under the circumstances his 13 receptions were no great accomplishment.

Don Beebe certainly helped out the team when Brooks and Freeman went down. For several games he was the only outside receiving threat. In fact after Free went down the Packers were starting Beebe and Mickens.

But thats not the point any QB that can really read a defense needs to be allowed to have options. When talent isn't there like in '05 and Favre doesn't have the control of changing the play at the line, bad things are bound to happen, bound baby, bound.

[Patler]

Nobody is painting him as a savior. That's laying it on a bit thick, isn't it? He was just a good pickup when the team needed one. Kind of a "right place at the right time" situation. I might even call it a "terrific" pickup given the circumstances and the result. You might not, but then it's a matter of opinion and there's no right or wrong answer.

Rison was a known quantity as a talented veteran receiver. He was not a mere Taco Wallace. (Speaking of whom ... if we remember a guy like Taco Wallace so many moons later, why might we not remember "Bad Moon" Rison?)

There was concern about his issues 'tween the ears, but his pre-existing friendship with Favre seemed to make that less of a concern. Obviously Wolf and/or Holmgren didn't see things the same way.

This discussion has mushroomed because I objected to the statement that Rison was "a terrific FA pickup." It's not like the Packers had to outbid anyone for his services. He had been fired mid-season. It was a no-brainer, with little risk because the minute he caused trouble he would have been handed a ticket and driven to the airport.

[Patler]

The Packers had pretty much run out of receivers by the end of the season. Brooks was out for the season, Freeman was hurt, Mayes was a rookie, Howard was really just a kick returner, so who ever they picked up was going to play and the ball would be thrown to them. Rison had to start, and under the circumstances his 13 receptions were no great accomplishment.

Don Beebe certainly helped out the team when Brooks and Freeman went down. For several games he was the only outside receiving threat. In fact after Free went down the Packers were starting Beebe and Mickens.

But thats not the point any QB that can really read a defense needs to be allowed to have options. When talent isn't there like in '05 and Favre doesn't have the control of changing the play at the line, bad things are bound to happen, bound baby, bound.

Beebe did help. Didn't he tweak a hamstring or something later in the season? It didn't keep him out, but as I recall he was a bit hobbled for a few games.

[Noodle]

Thanks Tyrone and others for gettin' my back against the brutal ambushing Patler laid on me.

Of course he was a terrific FA pickup. And at the time, I don't remember it as a "no brainer." There were concerns about how he would fit in and that he would be a disruptive hot head. Wolf took a chance, and I still say it paid off nicely.

Here's an excerpt from the Packers.com series on the SB year:

"Bad Moon Rison."

Even if you had no idea about the man, the nickname alone might cause you to have a few preconceived notions about him.

The "Bad Moon Rison" term had been attached to Andre Rison throughout most of his NFL career and often times led people to view the 6-foot-1, 195-pound wide receiver in a negative light regardless of whether they knew him or not.

So, when 1996 rolled around and the Packers were in need of a wide receiver, many people raised their eyebrows when Rison was claimed off waivers from Jacksonville.

The Packers had a 6-1 record at the time Robert Brooks suffered a torn anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) and patellar tendon in his right knee, but they went 2-2 without his services. Sitting at 8-3 and at a crossroads in the season, Green Bay was entering the stretch run without one of its top playmakers.

And that's when Rison entered the scene.

Rison came in and helped make up for the loss of Brooks by starting in seven games and giving the Packers another vertical dimension in the passing game. Still, some thought that he'd be a bad influence on a team with such strong chemistry. Others said Rison wasn't going to be satisfied without being the focal point of the offense.

So, was this a bad move for the Green and Gold?

Well, considering the Packers were 8-0 with Rison in the lineup and became Super Bowl XXXI champions, it'd be difficult to argue against the addition of "Bad Moon."

Actually, he wasn't really "Bad Moon" anymore according to several teammates.

Defensive tackle Bob Kuberski said the Packers had nothing to worry about when it came to Rison's attitude or personality.

"Everything was fine," Kuberski explained. "Everybody made a big fuss about it, but he came into the team, and was assimilated into the team. And I think he came in and said, 'Ok, I see what these guys are doing, and I'll do the same thing.'

"You know, he was great."

Keith Jackson, who also played an instrumental role in the Packers' success, echoed those sentiments.

"You had heard all of this stuff about him," Jackson recalled. "Bad Moon Rison, how he used to do this and how is he going to conform. But I learned a life lesson. I learned if you really are unwavering in a commitment to one another, a person on the outside will come in and they will become a part of the group instead of pull someone out of the group.

"And Andre Rison came in and he was the perfect gentleman. He did everything that the coaches asked him to do. That was a huge play in the Super Bowl that he made to help us secure that game."

The play Jackson is referring to is arguably one of the biggest in team history and it came on only the Packers' second offensive play from scrimmage. Brett Favre saw a favorable matchup at the line of scrimmage, and he made eye contact with Jackson, Rison, and Antonio Freeman to make sure everybody was on the same page.

Seconds later, Favre found Rison wide open and the star receiver made an over-the- shoulder grab for a 54-yard touchdown. The play set the tone for the game and Rison finished with two catches for 77 yards.



You see Patler, your statistics just can't tell the whole story.

[woodbuck27]

The Packers had pretty much run out of receivers by the end of the season. Brooks was out for the season, Freeman was hurt, Mayes was a rookie, Howard was really just a kick returner, so who ever they picked up was going to play and the ball would be thrown to them. Rison had to start, and under the circumstances his 13 receptions were no great accomplishment.

If that was true..whoever. How come in 97 the #3 receiver had 18 catches in 12 games. That without Keith Jackson who snared more balls the year before.

As for 1 touchdown. Ok. Perhaps you don't wanna talk about the other shoulda been td where brett missed him and threw it behind him on what shoulda been an 80 yarder.

You simply are doing revisionist history. Prior to Rison, they were 2-2, after..undefeated.

And, convenient that you don't mention the td in the san fran game.

And, my point was that it was a fine accomplishment in the short time he was here. He wasn't a west coast receiver and had to learn different routes.

The offense was really designed to get production at flanker, where newcomer Rison was still adapting to the system. And, don't kid yourself, Favre's best plays came when he broke the pocket and threw on the run. It takes a very disciplined secondary to stay with the receivers until Favre crosses the line of scrimmage. With veteran free-lancers such as Rison and Beebe, Favre loved to scramble and look for them downfield.

Furthermore, considering how the rest of those receivers turned out we definitely coulda used him.

1. Mayes..el busto
2. Mickens..oh, lord
3. beebe..tail end of career
4. Brooks..done in one

etc, etc. etc. You of all people know the numbers don't lie. And Rison's prior to GB #s were great and post GB were well above average.

Rison played 5 more years and was very productive for 5. Not going to discuss the 2 more in the CFL.

There is no way you can tell me that in 97 you would have preferred any of the #3 receivers over Rison.

Nice re-buttal.

Still steak not hamburger. :)

I am happy that I can always picture the Favre audible where he hit Andre Rison to his left for that huge - thumping TD.

Without that Favre to Rison hook-up we would have been ** in a hole in the first quarter by a score of 14-3.

** Not too comfortable given the pressure that would have placed on Favre even as it turned out all big Packer scoring plays in the 2nd quarter.

Just wondering if. . .

If being a very smart NFL fan is much akin to being overbearing or stubborn to accept anothers view with some degree of obvious comportment and respect (question mark)

GO PACKERS !

[MadtownPacker]

You simply are doing revisionist history. Prior to Rison, they were 2-2, after..undefeated.



Welcome to the negative side of the fence. Arguing with the mob is fruitless.

You can be right, but you'll still be wrong... (FWIW, I'll doom you and your argument by telling you I agree with you. I think the team at the end of the year without Rison would not have been as good as the team was with Rison. Clearly he helped regardless of the touchdown or no touchdown)What the hell does this have to do with anything????

[Patler]

"Brutal ambush"????
What the heck does that mean?

Geeze, all I did is disagree with you.

[Patler]

Thanks Tyrone and others for gettin' my back against the brutal ambushing Patler laid on me.

Of course he was a terrific FA pickup. And at the time, I don't remember it as a "no brainer." There were concerns about how he would fit in and that he would be a disruptive hot head. Wolf took a chance, and I still say it paid off nicely.

Here's an excerpt from the Packers.com series on the SB year:

"Bad Moon Rison."

Even if you had no idea about the man, the nickname alone might cause you to have a few preconceived notions about him.

The "Bad Moon Rison" term had been attached to Andre Rison throughout most of his NFL career and often times led people to view the 6-foot-1, 195-pound wide receiver in a negative light regardless of whether they knew him or not.

So, when 1996 rolled around and the Packers were in need of a wide receiver, many people raised their eyebrows when Rison was claimed off waivers from Jacksonville.

The Packers had a 6-1 record at the time Robert Brooks suffered a torn anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) and patellar tendon in his right knee, but they went 2-2 without his services. Sitting at 8-3 and at a crossroads in the season, Green Bay was entering the stretch run without one of its top playmakers.

And that's when Rison entered the scene.

Rison came in and helped make up for the loss of Brooks by starting in seven games and giving the Packers another vertical dimension in the passing game. Still, some thought that he'd be a bad influence on a team with such strong chemistry. Others said Rison wasn't going to be satisfied without being the focal point of the offense.

So, was this a bad move for the Green and Gold?

Well, considering the Packers were 8-0 with Rison in the lineup and became Super Bowl XXXI champions, it'd be difficult to argue against the addition of "Bad Moon."

Actually, he wasn't really "Bad Moon" anymore according to several teammates.

Defensive tackle Bob Kuberski said the Packers had nothing to worry about when it came to Rison's attitude or personality.

"Everything was fine," Kuberski explained. "Everybody made a big fuss about it, but he came into the team, and was assimilated into the team. And I think he came in and said, 'Ok, I see what these guys are doing, and I'll do the same thing.'

"You know, he was great."

Keith Jackson, who also played an instrumental role in the Packers' success, echoed those sentiments.

"You had heard all of this stuff about him," Jackson recalled. "Bad Moon Rison, how he used to do this and how is he going to conform. But I learned a life lesson. I learned if you really are unwavering in a commitment to one another, a person on the outside will come in and they will become a part of the group instead of pull someone out of the group.

"And Andre Rison came in and he was the perfect gentleman. He did everything that the coaches asked him to do. That was a huge play in the Super Bowl that he made to help us secure that game."

The play Jackson is referring to is arguably one of the biggest in team history and it came on only the Packers' second offensive play from scrimmage. Brett Favre saw a favorable matchup at the line of scrimmage, and he made eye contact with Jackson, Rison, and Antonio Freeman to make sure everybody was on the same page.

Seconds later, Favre found Rison wide open and the star receiver made an over-the- shoulder grab for a 54-yard touchdown. The play set the tone for the game and Rison finished with two catches for 77 yards.



You see Patler, your statistics just can't tell the whole story.

Well that particular series put out by the Packers made every member of the roster sound like a Hall of Famer.

I really don't understand the adamant glorification of a guy who came in, played five regular season games and the playoffs and did nothing exceptional other than the SB hook-up. I never said he was a problem, or performed poorly or anything of that nature. But, there was nothing "terrific" about having signed a street free agent, which is what he was. That was my only point. It was not that big of a deal.

[Bretsky]

I do think Rison was a major free agent signing and a risk. Stat wise, it appears to not be a big deal.

But he was a character risk coming into a team with a great mentality. He could have disrupted that as he probably disrupted past teams.

I also think his level of talent allowed the other WR's and TE's to get open more because they really had to account for Rison as well.

[Noodle]

"Brutal ambush"????
What the heck does that mean?

Geeze, all I did is disagree with you.

Just playin' with you, Patler. Lighten up, buddy, there's nothing but love for you here.

[the_idle_threat]

"Brutal ambush"????
What the heck does that mean?

Geeze, all I did is disagree with you.

Just playin' with you, Patler. Lighten up, buddy, there's nothing but love for you here.

Agreed. Some of us want to beleive the Rison pickup was a bigger deal than you think it was, Patler, and there's some evidence to support either view. Certainly nothing personal. :duel:

Cheers to the Pack and to all Packerrats! :bump: :glug:

[Partial]

Nobody is painting him as a savior. That's laying it on a bit thick, isn't it? He was just a good pickup when the team needed one. Kind of a "right place at the right time" situation. I might even call it a "terrific" pickup given the circumstances and the result. You might not, but then it's a matter of opinion and there's no right or wrong answer.

Rison was a known quantity as a talented veteran receiver. He was not a mere Taco Wallace. (Speaking of whom ... if we remember a guy like Taco Wallace so many moons later, why might we not remember "Bad Moon" Rison?)

There was concern about his issues 'tween the ears, but his pre-existing friendship with Favre seemed to make that less of a concern. Obviously Wolf and/or Holmgren didn't see things the same way.

Because Andre's name is not Taco.

[the_idle_threat]

Nobody is painting him as a savior. That's laying it on a bit thick, isn't it? He was just a good pickup when the team needed one. Kind of a "right place at the right time" situation. I might even call it a "terrific" pickup given the circumstances and the result. You might not, but then it's a matter of opinion and there's no right or wrong answer.

Rison was a known quantity as a talented veteran receiver. He was not a mere Taco Wallace. (Speaking of whom ... if we remember a guy like Taco Wallace so many moons later, why might we not remember "Bad Moon" Rison?)

There was concern about his issues 'tween the ears, but his pre-existing friendship with Favre seemed to make that less of a concern. Obviously Wolf and/or Holmgren didn't see things the same way.

Because Andre's name is not Taco.

Perhaps, but "Bad Moon" Rison is a pretty memorable nickname. And Rison was a much better player.

[Partial]

I am with Patler. Can anyone remember another decent play that he made beyond the big touchdown catch? I sure as heck cannot.

He was cut by the Jags. I think it was right after Left Eye burned his house down, but I am not positron.

[the_idle_threat]

Can anyone remember any specific play that Beebe made that year, or any other receiver for that matter? I can't.

People remember the biggest plays, and the rest kind of fade.

But it so happens that Rison did make a huge and memorable play in the Super Bowl. Funny how some wanna discount that and say "other than that huge play he made in the Super Bowl ...." Well, IMO, the big play he made in the Super Bowl would make him a terrific pickup as scrapheap reclamations go even if that was all he did.

What I remember about him is that he was a very talented player who had been to the Pro Bowl more than once (I just looked it up to confirm how many---it was 4 straight Pro Bowls from 1990 to 1993) but he had some character questions. He was kind of like the Randy Moss of his time, although not quite so dominating on the field as Moss.

When he was on the field, teams still needed to account for him, even if he didn't get the ball. He brought this element to the Packers right away. And I also distinctly remember that he and Favre had a great chemistry, which came in part from their time together as teammates when Favre was a rookie in Atlanta. My memory is fuzzy on why he didn't produce bigger numbers, but my recollection is that he just couldn't learn the playbook fast enough to make a huge instant impact, and IIRC a lot of his production in the first few games was based upon sandlot-type improvisation between him and Favre.

Rison went on to make the Pro Bowl again the very next season with Kansas City.

I just wonder what might have been if he had been brought back and had gotten the chance to truly learn the offense and play.

[hoosier]

I am with Patler. Can anyone remember another decent play that he made beyond the big touchdown catch? I sure as heck cannot.


I can. Rison saved their ass early in the Carolina game, when they were trailing 10-7. It was 2nd and forever after a penalty, and he hauled in one of Favre's rockets in between a bunch of Carolina defenders for a 20+ yard gain. That made it 3rd and short, the Pack converted and scored a TD, putting them ahead for the first time. They never trailed after that. I have a vivid mental image of one of Carolina's DBs cursing up and down after Rison caught that ball.

[Partial]

Can anyone remember any specific play that Beebe made that year, or any other receiver for that matter? I can't.

People remember the biggest plays, and the rest kind of fade.

But it so happens that Rison did make a huge and memorable play in the Super Bowl. Funny how some wanna discount that and say "other than that huge play he made in the Super Bowl ...." Well, IMO, the big play he made in the Super Bowl would make him a terrific pickup as scrapheap reclamations go even if that was all he did.

What I remember about him is that he was a very talented player who had been to the Pro Bowl more than once (I just looked it up to confirm how many---it was 4 straight Pro Bowls from 1990 to 1993) but he had some character questions. He was kind of like the Randy Moss of his time, although not quite so dominating on the field as Moss.

When he was on the field, teams still needed to account for him, even if he didn't get the ball. He brought this element to the Packers right away. And I also distinctly remember that he and Favre had a great chemistry, which came in part from their time together as teammates when Favre was a rookie in Atlanta. My memory is fuzzy on why he didn't produce bigger numbers, but my recollection is that he just couldn't learn the playbook fast enough to make a huge instant impact, and IIRC a lot of his production in the first few games was based upon sandlot-type improvisation between him and Favre.

Rison went on to make the Pro Bowl again the very next season with Kansas City.

I just wonder what might have been if he had been brought back and had gotten the chance to truly learn the offense and play.

Yes. He caught that one button hookish play, fell down, and got right back up and housed it.

I'm not saying he didn't have a huge impact on that game, but I am saying that is all he is remembered for.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Can anyone remember any specific play that Beebe made that year, or any other receiver for that matter? I can't.


I think people are crapping on Rison because he had reputation as a trouble maker.

He was only with the pack for a few months a very long time ago, jeez.

I can't remember a single block that Tootie Robbins made.

[the_idle_threat]

I can't remember a single block that Tootie Robbins made.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Me neither.

[Zool]

Can anyone remember any specific play that Beebe made that year, or any other receiver for that matter? I can't.


I think people are crapping on Rison because he had reputation as a trouble maker.

He was only with the pack for a few months a very long time ago, jeez.

I can't remember a single block that Tootie Robbins made.

I remember when she blocked Blair and Natalie from Joe, when Joe was trying to get at them cause she was mad. Mrs Garrett had to come in and calm everyone down.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

"Rison played 5 more years and was very productive for 5. Not going to discuss the 2 more in the CFL."

Tyrone, ya freakin' cracky.

Rison played TWO more seasons. He was very productive for us and helped out a lot that year. Andre did a lot of work with the young recievers and brought a lot of energy to his job. His gig was to run routes the DB's respected to leave room for our twin terror TE's, Chew and Keith Jackson. 13 grabs was just a bit of his contributions.

One thing he did for the team may have lead to his demise. At the end of the season, Holmgren was worrying aloud to his coaches on how to fire the team up before an upcoming game. An assistant told Mikey that he had heard Rison could deliver a king hell pre game pep talk. Rison was approached and agreed to give his firey speech, knowing it was fresh material to the Pack.

Rison did a great job, getting the team all fired up, but combining humor. All observers said it was the best pre game pep talk they'd ever heard. Him and Holmgren even worked a bit out that would allow MH to make a joke at Rison's expense, kidding him about the hip hop delivery.

Rison did every thing he was asked and expected to be back next year. The Pack never made him an offer. Andre signed with the Chiefs. He was their top reciever with 72 catches for 1000+ yards. He was pissed and was never told why the Pack let him go.

The scuttlebut of the time was that Wolf & Holmgren were impressed with Rison's quick hold on the team, but paranoid that it could backfire. Rison had a rep as a clubhouse lawyer & Packer mgt didn't want to deal with his alleged dark side.

That read him and Brett made in the Super Bowl is how I remember Dre. He could read secondaries like a QB. He read that hot seam and ran the route. The Gunslinger saw it too, & put that baby right in there. He should have played for us in '97.

I made a mistake, but mine is way closer than yours. Rison played 4 more seasons and 2 in the CFL.

Pro football reference lists: 97,98,99 with KC and 00 with Oakland.

But, we are in agreement. It was a poor decisions to let him go.