Mark Roman is butt-hurt because we signed Marquand Manual

[GoPackGo]

Mark Roman on the signing of Marquand Manual....

"Just the way it was handled," Roman said. "It was handled very poorly. There was a huge lack of communication. It was a situation where you think you've put in enough time with the organization that you've earned a certain amount of respect and to be completely disrespected. . . "

So he thinks that bringing in safeties to compete for a starting job is disrespectful.
message to Mark Roman: don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!

here's the full article:


Roman stuck in position
Safety unhappy, wants release
By TOM SILVERSTEIN
tsilverstein@journalsentinel.com
Posted: May 6, 2006
Green Bay - Green Bay Packers safety Mark Roman said Saturday he asked for his release when he found out the team had signed free-agent safety Marquand Manuel to compete for his starting job.
Roman wasn't specific about his complaint with the Packers, but according to a source, Roman felt the signals he was receiving from the club just before the Manuel signing were that he was going to be one of the leaders on defense. Soon after a discussion with the coaches about his position, he found out about the addition of Manuel.
Roman said he felt he deserved an explanation from general manager Ted Thompson about the mixed signals.

"Just the way it was handled," Roman said. "It was handled very poorly. There was a huge lack of communication. It was a situation where you think you've put in enough time with the organization that you've earned a certain amount of respect and to be completely disrespected. . . "

Roman, whose contract voids after this season, has not been attending off-season workouts at the Packers facility because he said he was mad with the way he was treated. Immediately after Manuel was signed, he asked the team for his release and they refused. He was told he would be in the mix for a starting job.

Thompson did not return a phone message seeking comment, but Roman said he had not heard any developments.

At the start of the mandatory minicamp, Roman was in the starting lineup. However, Manuel was on the sideline with a groin injury he suffered in the Super Bowl playing for Seattle, and it's unclear whether he'll be inserted with the No. 1 defense.

Roman admitted he asked for his release.

"I did," Roman said. "They said, no, basically. Then it was yeah, well. . . . It was handled badly. I don't know (if it will happen). While I'm up here all I can do is just play as hard as I can, whatever else happens happens."

Roman has started 31 of 32 games with the Packers since signing as a free agent in 2004 and has 190 tackles, 3½ sacks and two interceptions. He beat third-round pick Marques Anderson for the starting job in '04 and veterans Earl Little and Arturo Freeman in '05.

In his two years as a starter, Roman has not made many big plays and has given up nine touchdowns, a pretty high number for a safety. The Packers signed Manuel, a backup behind Roman in Cincinnati in 2002 and '03, to a five-year, $10 million deal that included a $1.5 million signing bonus.

Manuel was a backup with the Seahawks last season but was thrust into a starting role after Ken Hamlin suffered an off-the-field head injury. Manuel started in Super Bowl XL against Pittsburgh and has a good shot at starting opposite second-year pro Nick Collins.

Packers coach Mike McCarthy said he has sensed no problems with Roman on the field.

"He's practiced well," McCarthy said. "Had a short conversation with him. It's been good."



http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/packer/img/news/may06/roman506.jpg

[Rivers Rutherford]

Why are either Wasington or Roman still on the roster? Both deserve to be out of the League--they've earned it.

[MadtownPacker]

Post the article baby!! Why make us go to the slow flushing toilet? :mrgreen:

As for Roman, excellent that he isnt happy. He should be pissed, he should want to go out and prove he is the starter.

I like this news.

[Scott Campbell]

. It was a situation where you think you've put in enough time with the organization that you've earned a certain amount of respect and to be completely disrespected. . . "


Enough time????

Maybe he thought he had earned tenured status.

[Patler]

Perhaps he should consider that organization that paid him money has been DISRESPECTED by him and the quality of performances he has given the organization.

[GrnBay007]

CRY BABY

[RashanGary]

He does look to be in really good shape.

[Joemailman]

Seems pretty lame that a guy would be so upset about having competition. Does he think he's so good there shouldn't be any competition, or is he really insecure about his ability to fight off competion? The Packers would save about 625,000 by cutting him, so I don'y think that's a big factor. The Packers will probably keep four safeties, so there is certainly room on the roster for both Manuel and Roman.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I tire of fans bashing players. Roman is probably ticked that coaches brought in a replacement without talking to him. Just a lack of professional courtesy. What Roman said is no big deal, just the usual low-level employee grumbling that you hear in EVERY business organization.

Is it any wonder that players gives robotic, insincere questions to journalists?

Fans look for any opportunity to turn players into crap. They can't do anything about their own boss or badgering spouse, so they take it out frustrations on the mediocre players. Professional sports serve many purposes.

Hell, Roman had a decent season in 2005. I SERIOUSLY doubt that the new guy is significantly better. But we'll see.

[Patler]

I tire of posters bashing fans and other posters. Fans are probably ticked that players continue to act as if the team owes them something. What the posters wrote is no big deal, just the usual low-level fan grumbling that you read in EVERY team bulletin board.

Is it any wonder that posters give robotic, insincere opinions?

Some posters look for any opportunity to criticize other posters. They can't do anything about their own boss or badgering spouse, so they take it out frustrations on posters. Internet bulletin boards and fan sites serve many purposes.

Hell, most of the posters on here post good and insightful information. I SERIOUSLY doubt that any new poster (or any old one for the matter) is significantly better. But we'll see.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:

[GrnBay007]

I tire of fans bashing players. Roman is probably ticked that coaches brought in a replacement without talking to him. Just a lack of professional courtesy.

In the business world or the NFL, is it standard for the BOSS to consult with the employee or player before hiring?

I agree with the professional courtesy.......but if you don't see that in the real world, why would you expect it in the NFL.

[Harlan Huckleby]

In the business world or the NFL, is it standard for the BOSS to consult with the employee or player before hiring?


If a boss is smart, they'll speak to the old employee and make sure they know they are still valued. Yes, I think this sort of diplomacy does happen in the business world. I didn't suggest that the boss would consult with the old employee before hiring.

[Patler]

I think you are describing some Utopian business world, not the real business world we see day in and day out.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I agree with Harlan and Patler.
:D

I don't have a big issue with Roman. If he is unprofessional when it comes time to play football, then I'll have a problem with him. Until then, I won't bash him. Hell, I'm sure there are people on this board that were upset when they were passed on a promotion. They just don't have the scrutiny that comes with the job that these guys do. It could be that he was initially upset, but we'll be professional in the long run. Brian Williams was upset with the Vikings last year. He ended up being very professional and had a good year for them. Happens a lot.

[ND72]

I tire of fans bashing players. Roman is probably ticked that coaches brought in a replacement without talking to him. Just a lack of professional courtesy. What Roman said is no big deal, just the usual low-level employee grumbling that you hear in EVERY business organization.

There is no reason a team should have to go and talk to a player to make sure he's ok with signing someone. especially someone who hasn't exactly excelled. TT had no reason at all to have to talk to Roman, he's not a Hall of Famer, or a guy who is set in stone at the position.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I doubt Roman is very upset. My point is his comments are insignificant.

Hell ya, managers communicate with employees in the "real world". The good ones do. It's good politics.

[MadtownPacker]

Did TT ask Favre if he could draft Rodgers??? NO!

Why should he ask Roman?

I like Roman on the roster though. He is a good player to have. Not very $$$$ either tight?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Did TT ask Favre if he could draft Rodgers???

No, of course not, this is a false argument. If Rodgers was a real threat to unseat Favre, it would be wise to have an assistant coach or head coach talk to Favre, just let him know how his role with team has or has not changed. This is good people skills.

[MadtownPacker]

This is good people skills.
TT doesnt appear to have any people skills. Better tha way since he has to swing the axe.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Since I make my living off of companies with bad management/poor communication skills I think the blue dog has a very valid point.

Everyday I praise jesus for stupid companies. They make my life so much easier. Employees, in general, are usually happy where they are, but make a move for issues other than salary, i.e., being passed over for promotion, lack of opportunity to advance, more challenging work, etc.

Roman isn't upset about having to compete, but in the manner in which he was told about it. Put yourself in his shoes, your boss comes to you and says that you are going to be a key player this upcoming year (stroking you like a good manager does), next thing you know they have hired a new guy who is now the key player, your role isn't just diminished but pretty much non existent.

If you aren't upset about that, then I would say resign your career to mediocrity. I would have my resume updated and start networking immediately. That is all Roman is doing.

Lastly, in the NFL, with careers around 4 years, and those with longevity playing for multiple teams, 2 years with an employer with more years to come does warrant being treated decently.

[Patler]

I doubt Roman is very upset. My point is his comments are insignificant.

Hell ya, managers communicate with employees in the "real world". The good ones do. It's good politics.

Hell no they don't. Not before the decisions are made. After the fact, sure. But not in advance. And that includes good ones too.

[Patler]

Should TT have explained himself to all the linebackers before drafting Hawk? To the guards before drafting Coledge. To Ferguson before signing Boerigter or befiore drafting the receivers?

Carroll is being more of a "man" about the signing of Woodson than Roman is over the signing of Manuel. Carroll said he found out from Woodson himself. He's not whinning about it, and as a first round draft choice who is much higher paid than Roman he might have more to complain about than Roman does.

These guys all know they are in an ultracompetitive situation. The minute someone better than them shows up, they will lose their job. Roman was simply overreacting and being petty and immature. Perhaps he has gotten over it. If so, no harm, no foul.

[Joemailman]

. It was a situation where you think you've put in enough time with the organization that you've earned a certain amount of respect and to be completely disrespected. . . "


Enough time????

Maybe he thought he had earned tenured status.

Someone needs to explain to Roman that Pro Football is a young man's game. The more time you've put in, the MORE likely it is that someone will be brought in to replace you. Not LESS. Just ask William Henderson. The question is, does Roman have the toughness that Henderson has shown to keep fighting the challengers off?[/b]

[ND72]

my point was, yes in good companies they will talk to the other employee's....but this isn't a we're hiring him you're fired situation. This was a we're improving our team by adding depth situation, how bout you be a man and step up and win the position in stead of crying about it like a wuss, situation.

[Rastak]

Should TT have explained himself to all the linebackers before drafting Hawk? To the guards before drafting Coledge. To Ferguson before signing Boerigter or befiore drafting the receivers?

Carroll is being more of a "man" about the signing of Woodson than Roman is over the signing of Manuel. Carroll said he found out from Woodson himself. He's not whinning about it, and as a first round draft choice who is much higher paid than Roman he might have more to complain about than Roman does.

These guys all know they are in an ultracompetitive situation. The minute someone better than them shows up, they will lose their job. Roman was simply overreacting and being petty and immature. Perhaps he has gotten over it. If so, no harm, no foul.


I thought Roman's main beef was that he had been misled by management's comments about his job status? Either way, he should shut up and accept the challenge. I though he played decently last year.

[Guiness]

I think the telling fact is that he's not attending off-season workouts because of this. That does point to me that he's being whinny about this.

Also interesting is the assumption he's making that this guy was brought in to replace him. Hearing footsteps buddy? Did TT or M3 ever anoint Manuel the starter? Not that I've heard, but Roman sure seems to think he is. Guess he's given up already, as opposed to fighting for his position. If Hendo had acted that way, Luchey would be our starting FB.

Should it have been mentioned to him? Maybe if they told him he was going to be running the show back there, and that changed, sure. But any player that doesn't expect the team to attempt to upgrade every position possible is an idiot. Didn't hear anything from Ferguson when Boeriger was signed. As pointed out, Carrol was ok with Woodson. Cole kept his mouth shut when Picket was signed. Why should Roman be any different that any of them?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Hell no they don't. Not before the decisions are made. After the fact, sure. But not in advance.

Wow, this is tedious. For the third time: I did not suggest that management should consult employees before making decisions.

If some change dramatically effects somebody's job or job security, a smart manager will have a talk with that individual so they know what is coming. You leave people to speculate, minds tend to wander into negative areas.

[Harlan Huckleby]

As pointed out, Carrol was ok with Woodson. Cole kept his mouth shut when Picket was signed. Why should Roman be any different that any of them?

It's true, the job of the GM is to constantly try and upgrade the roster. NFL players know the game.

I don't know exactly what Roman's beef is, but he cites a lack of communication, perhaps he was mislead. I find his comment mild, not worthy of a character ripping.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think the telling fact is that he's not attending off-season workouts because of this.

Did Roman state this? Or was it a reporter's speculation?

[RashanGary]

I don't mean to be rude to Mark Roman but as a Packer fan, who really cares. He's a nice player as a back up or starter in a pinch but he can be replaced pretty easily. If he's going to be a disruption, let him go. Grady can't even get a job and Roman will probably be the same.

He needs to just play his best and let the rest take care of itself. He's not going ot gain respect whining. He's going to get respect with interceptions and tackles.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If he's going to be a disruption, let him go.

the man made a mild comment of disgruntlement about poor communication. This is "disruption?!"

Bow down before the authority figure. Sung from the front pew of the First Church of Packer Football.

[Patler]

Hell no they don't. Not before the decisions are made. After the fact, sure. But not in advance.

Wow, this is tedious. For the third time: I did not suggest that management should consult employees before making decisions.

If some change dramatically effects somebody's job or job security, a smart manager will have a talk with that individual so they know what is coming. You leave people to speculate, minds tend to wander into negative areas.

You are right, this is tedious. I don't know what world you are in, but it is not the real world. More often than not the talk with individuals comes after the fact. Have you ever been part of a layoff, a corporate downsize, a merger, a corporate purchase, a sell-off? Corporate "refocusing", outsourcing, etc. etc. all dramatically impact many employees jobs or job securities. The fact is in most situations management can not "prepare" the affected employees in advance. Only after the fact can they sit down with the employees, explain the what and why of the action and how it will impact them.

I've been on both sides of many of these situations. It never changes. Only in the most insignificant of situations can you do as you suggest, and more often than not, it isn't any better for the affected individuals anyway.

[Patler]

If he's going to be a disruption, let him go.

the man made a mild comment of disgruntlement about poor communication. This is "disruption?!"

Bow down before the authority figure. Sung from the front pew of the First Church of Packer Football.

He asked to be released! He has boycotted workouts because of it! That's mild???

[Harlan Huckleby]

You are right, this is tedious. I don't know what world you are in, but it is not the real world. More often than not the talk with individuals comes after the fact.

This is stunning. I will try for a 4th time: yes, the talk is only likely to happen after the fact.

You keep repeating this strawman argument about managers making decdisions in the real world without consulting employees. Did I ever argue this was not the case?

[Harlan Huckleby]

He asked to be released! He has boycotted workouts because of it! That's mild???

I know nothing about these facts. I did not call this behavior mild - this is another strawman argument you have constructed.

[RashanGary]

I don't think Thompson should call each starter every time he signs a new player at their position.

I thought it was a generally accepted fact that teams are always trying to get better and are going to constantly have a revolving door of talent comeing and going.

The problem seems to be that Roman doesn't want copetition. He wants his job to be handed to him and not to be open to competition. He's in la la land really.

[RashanGary]

TT "Hey Mark, I brought in a new saftey through FA and another through the draft. We plan on starting the player who plays the best"

Roman "OK, I thought maybe my job was secure and I would never have competition. Thank you for the heads up"



Maybe Roman was considered a top talent for some stupid ass reason by Sherman and now he feels he should be treated like one of the premier players by the new regime. I don't know what his problem is but he needs to come in and win the job. Whining is just lame.

[Patler]

HH, you wrote, "I don't know exactly what Roman's beef is, but he cites a lack of communication, perhaps he was mislead. I find his comment mild, not worthy of a character ripping."

People were ripping him for hisd actions and his comments.

You keep changing your argument. Why don't you trying picking one and staying with it???

[Harlan Huckleby]

I have not changed my argument one inch. I simply repeat it because you mistate it.

[Tarlam!]

On the principle matter, I side with HH on this one. I do this cause I was too quick to bash DD when "news" broke he was looking for more cash publicly.

I don't know for sure what happened between Roman and the team, what (if any) promises were made, if he intends to boycott anything or if he is really looking for a new team.

BTW, if anyone here felt they were doing a great job and a replacement was hired under their nose, they would be seriously pssied, too. In fact, most would be on the phone complaining to their spouses within a quarter of an hour. That evening, most would be on the net dialing up Monster.com and getting their resumés in order. YES I MEAN YOU :shock: !

Guiness picked it in his mail, when he cited what was in the article as Roman's main beef: Communication. But here's the deal; the new coach gets into town and tells EVERYONE how important they are. Why, because you don't wanna incite a mass exodus until you know who you want to leave...

[Merlin]

Since I make my living off of companies with bad management/poor communication skills I think the blue dog has a very valid point.

Everyday I praise jesus for stupid companies. They make my life so much easier. Employees, in general, are usually happy where they are, but make a move for issues other than salary, i.e., being passed over for promotion, lack of opportunity to advance, more challenging work, etc.

Roman isn't upset about having to compete, but in the manner in which he was told about it. Put yourself in his shoes, your boss comes to you and says that you are going to be a key player this upcoming year (stroking you like a good manager does), next thing you know they have hired a new guy who is now the key player, your role isn't just diminished but pretty much non existent.

If you aren't upset about that, then I would say resign your career to mediocrity. I would have my resume updated and start networking immediately. That is all Roman is doing.

Lastly, in the NFL, with careers around 4 years, and those with longevity playing for multiple teams, 2 years with an employer with more years to come does warrant being treated decently.

I agrree with this. IMO, Roman had a pretty good year in 2005. I thought in 2004 "why did we sign this guy?". I think he will emerge and give Manual a run for his money. I think either one "can" be a great safety, it would be good if they both turned out to be great. I am not impressed with Manual and I tihk we over paid him just to get him in Green Bay. He hasn't even played a full year in a starting role.

[KYPack]

It's always a bad move to weigh in on other's fights, because there is always the possibility they both turn on you.

But here I go.

There was a point established earlier in this thread that i feel is totally wrong. Mark Roman did NOT have a decent year last year. He had the sme kind of year he's had his whole pro career. He was inconsistent and didn't show the kind of solid performance that you need from a veteran player.

He played very poorly at times. He got beat, blew coverages, and (the killer in my opinion) whiffed on tackles, one of which cost us a ball game. Roman has been a puzzle his whole pro career. He's got talent, but never puts together for a whole season. He makes the effort, but suffers from a lack of confidence or somthing, and falls apart at crucial times when it hurts you the most.

This was also doubly important last year, because they were looking for a stable partner for Nick Collins. That kid is a helluva a talent and they wanted Roman to show some leadership and have a consistent level of play as an example for the young guy. Instead, Roman did his usual "one good game, an average one, then a stinker" type of play he always shows.

You can't count on the guy in any area. Roman played so poorly, they went out and got a veteran safety to compete for his job. And they should have. Roaman's play was a disgrace for a vet of his experience.

As far as Roman's whiny complaints about communication...

To quote the late, great Joe Don Looney,

"You wanna send a message, call Western Union"

Pro Football is a cold blooded business. If you can't do the job, they will find someone who can.

[Patler]

KY, I both agree and disagree (how's that for taking a stand!)

I think Roman was better in 2005 than 2004, but improving the safety play (both spots) is certainly a legitimate team goal. Improvement won't come from Roman, he is what he is. Collins has potential to improve.

Roman missed a few tackles, all DBs do, but actually he had a decent year tackling and missed a lot fewer tackles than Nick Collins did while making more tackles than Collins. For some reason people want to ignore a relatively poor tackling performance by Collins while emphasizing Roman's misses. I think it is probably because we are jaded by Roman's 2004 performance, and Collins did enough to impress that we emphasize the negative of Roman and the positive from Collins.

Collins missed 19 tackles in 2005, second on the club to Barnett who had 20. Sharper never had more than 18 missed tackles. Roman had 12 misses in 2005. Roman had 90 tackles, Collins 84. If you look at the number of missed tackles relative to the number of tackling opportunities, Collins has a long way to go.

Roman had 2 interceptions, Collins 1 with several drops. Passes defensed were Roman 6, Collins 7.

I know everyone is high on Collins and down on Roman. In my opinion, Roman isn't awful, but you would like better, and Collins still has a chance to be a bust or a very good DB. That is the difference between the two. We know what Roman is. We hope Collins fulfills the potential that Roman has not, but Collins could turnout to be no better than Roman. The jury is still out.

Just for the record, so I am not misinterpretted, I like Collins as a player. He showed significant improvement last year during the season. I think he has a good chance to be a very good DB. But he is not there yet. This year will be important for him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I agree that Roman was somewhere close to serviceable last year after a poor 2004, but a genius once said that statistics are for losers.

Unless you look at the film closely, nobody knows just how egregious the missed tackles were. What got classified as a missed tackle for Roman and what got classified as a missed tackle for Collins? The stats can say otherwise, but I felt more comfortable with Collins as a tackler than Roman.

The statistics say Derek Jeter is one of the worst defensive shortstops in baseball, but if you watch, I doubt he could be classified that poorly. He's probably somewhere close to average with a penchant for making big defensive plays in crunch time.

And I'm not a big Jeter backer/fan.

[Patler]

I agree that Roman was somewhere close to serviceable last year after a poor 2004, but a genius once said that statistics are for losers.

Unless you look at the film closely, nobody knows just how egregious the missed tackles were. What got classified as a missed tackle for Roman and what got classified as a missed tackle for Collins? The stats can say otherwise, but I felt more comfortable with Collins as a tackler than Roman.

The statistics say Derek Jeter is one of the worst defensive shortstops in baseball, but if you watch, I doubt he could be classified that poorly. He's probably somewhere close to average with a penchant for making big defensive plays in crunch time.

And I'm not a big Jeter backer/fan.

You are of course right Harvey. I should never have posted stats in support of an analysis, as they are totally meaningless. What you think you saw is of immensely more value than the statistics that are generated from a review of the tapes.

As you hinted, I am sure the statisticians were much more severe on Collins than on Roman, what they considered to be a missed tackle for Collins would have been ignored for Roman, because that is the way statisticians are.

:wink:

[theeaterofshades]

I don't like what Roman said, but I do believe he played better overall last year than 2004. I believe our whole group of DBs (and the LBs for that matter) will look a whole lot better, have fewer penalties, and gather in more picks when we somehow have a pass rush. Without pressure, most starting QBs in the league will pick apart any DB squad (especially with the new rules which favor the receivers over the DBs). The key to our D will be pressure at minimum, sacks as the optimum!

[Tarlam!]

Stas aside, Collins is a hitter and Roman is not. I only get to listen to the games via the net, so, I only know what the commentators say. They quite often say Collins hit someone hard. They never say anything more than, "Tackled by Roman".

[HarveyWallbangers]

As you hinted, I am sure the statisticians were much more severe on Collins than on Roman, what they considered to be a missed tackle for Collins would have been ignored for Roman, because that is the way statisticians are.

I didn't say they DID judge Collins harder, but they could have. It could be that Collins had the bad luck of being in the position of making difficult tackles more often. I trust stats, but they aren't the only way to judge. If I were a GM, I'd be a cross between an old school scout and a stats guy. I felt Collins was a better tackler after watching him for 16 games.

Let me ask you a question (if you follow baseball): what's your opinion on the defensive prowess of Derek Jeter?

[MadtownPacker]

Stas aside, Collins is a hitter and Roman is not. I only get to listen to the games via the net, so, I only know what the commentators say. They quite often say Collins hit someone hard. They never say anything more than, "Tackled by Roman".
No, Roman laid some hard hits too. Collins was just being reckless with his body, crazy bastard. Still love the hit he put on Chad Johnson. My only regret is that he didnt get a piece of moss.

[KYPack]

KY, I both agree and disagree (how's that for taking a stand!)

I think Roman was better in 2005 than 2004, but improving the safety play (both spots) is certainly a legitimate team goal. Improvement won't come from Roman, he is what he is. Collins has potential to improve.

Roman missed a few tackles, all DBs do, but actually he had a decent year tackling and missed a lot fewer tackles than Nick Collins did while making more tackles than Collins. For some reason people want to ignore a relatively poor tackling performance by Collins while emphasizing Roman's misses. I think it is probably because we are jaded by Roman's 2004 performance, and Collins did enough to impress that we emphasize the negative of Roman and the positive from Collins.

Collins missed 19 tackles in 2005, second on the club to Barnett who had 20. Sharper never had more than 18 missed tackles. Roman had 12 misses in 2005. Roman had 90 tackles, Collins 84. If you look at the number of missed tackles relative to the number of tackling opportunities, Collins has a long way to go.

Roman had 2 interceptions, Collins 1 with several drops. Passes defensed were Roman 6, Collins 7.

I know everyone is high on Collins and down on Roman. In my opinion, Roman isn't awful, but you would like better, and Collins still has a chance to be a bust or a very good DB. That is the difference between the two. We know what Roman is. We hope Collins fulfills the potential that Roman has not, but Collins could turnout to be no better than Roman. The jury is still out.

Just for the record, so I am not misinterpretted, I like Collins as a player. He showed significant improvement last year during the season. I think he has a good chance to be a very good DB. But he is not there yet. This year will be important for him.

You agree & disagree?

That's ballsy of ya, PatRock!

We will never agree on this one. I'm a Packer fan, but I live in the Cincy area. I know all about Mark Roman. In fact, I even felt sorry for him early in his career. The Bengals tried to make him into a corner, and the guy was just shattered. In fact, it's my theory that his early experiences at corner ruined him for his career. No matter how well he performs, he always has the idea in his head that he can totally collapse.

And collapse he does. This last year was my own last chance for Roman. And he showed me that he will never make it. His blown plays this year were bad for a rookie, but a 5 year vet should never fall apart like that.

When a safety lets his team down, he screws up the whole defense. The D just can't play with any confidence. The new staff had to look at film from this season and reach the conclusion that they need a new safety.

Nick Collins? I'm not undecided about him. I love the kid, he will be a fixture in our defense for years to come. He absolutely blossomed the end of last year and he will be a star in our secondary.

Mark Roman? He'll not be with the Pack by next season. When he gets cut, I dunno, but gone he will be.

[Badgepack]

Every year new players are brought in at almost all positions, they go through training camp and the pre-season, and the best player gets to start.
Either win the job quit bitching.

[Patler]

Let me ask you a question (if you follow baseball): what's your opinion on the defensive prowess of Derek Jeter?

I haven't seen him play enough to have an opinion. Highlights on ESPN certainly don't provide a sufficient basis, and that is all I ever see of Jeter, highlights.

[MadtownPacker]

Every year new players are brought in at almost all positions, they go through training camp and the pre-season, and the best player gets to start.
Either win the job quit bitching.
The straight up truth!!!!

[Bossman641]

McCarthy could have called Roman right after the Manuel signing and he admits as much in this article. Still, IMO, Roman is taking this way too far. It's like he's afraid of a little competiton.

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Roman rants: Mark Roman remains miffed about the signing of fellow safety Marquand Manuel.

“Business is business, and I respect that, but there’s ways to do good business and ways to do bad business,” Roman said. “There was no communication, and that was really the most important thing.”

Roman said he learned of Manuel’s signing “from the media,” and said a week passed before he was contacted by the team.

“I thought I deserved the respect of a phone call,” Roman said. “There was just no communication. At least I would have known about it, and it wouldn’t be a total shock.”

Shortly after Manuel was signed away from the Seattle Seahawks in March, Roman asked to be released. That request was denied.

McCarthy agreed Manuel’s signing wasn’t handled well, and said the team has no plans to release Roman.

“Just the situation, the way the signing of Manuel went down, I could have probably done a better job of communicating (it) sooner to Mark,” McCarthy said. “So we’ve had a conversation. I thought his participation this weekend was excellent. It’s not an issue from my viewpoint.”

Roman lined up at his usual spot with the starting defense during minicamp, but that was with Manuel on the sideline nursing a groin injury sustained in the Super Bowl. Roman said McCarthy has indicated he expects him to battle Manuel for the starting safety job, but Roman presumes the starting job will go to Manuel once he’s healthy.

“I haven’t been told that, but that’s my feeling,” Roman said. “They signed him for a reason.”

Roman said he hasn’t decided whether he will attend Green Bay’s next minicamp (May 19-21).

“Weââ� �€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ll see,“ Roman said. “Iââ⠀šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢m here now. I’m trying to put my best foot forward. I don’t know where we go from here. This whole thing just has been handled very badly.”

[MadtownPacker]

“Weââ� �€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ll see,“ Roman said. “Iââ⠀šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢m here now. I’m trying to put my best foot forward. I don’t know where we go from here. This whole thing just has been handled very badly.”

He's only being handling worse. Roman better get his shit in gear or he is gonna get Polarized by TT.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I didn't read the first post in this thread carefully. I see now that Roman was acting more pissy than just making the one comment. I can't excuse his behavior, but still not gonna write him off.

I hope the competition between Roman & Manuel is fair, it is not clear which of the guys is better.

[Little Whiskey]

I didn't read the first post in this thread carefully. I see now that Roman was acting more pissy than just making the one comment. I can't excuse his behavior, but still not gonna write him off.

I hope the competition between Roman & Manuel is fair, it is not clear which of the guys is better.

if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

[Badgepack]

Two more thoughts,

1 - I didn't know management was required to consult players if competion is brought in.

2- Other than elite players(which Roman is not), who would complain about being a back-up in the NFL. The moneys great, he will play some, and may be starting if injuries occur.

[KYPack]

I didn't read the first post in this thread carefully. I see now that Roman was acting more pissy than just making the one comment. I can't excuse his behavior, but still not gonna write him off.

I hope the competition between Roman & Manuel is fair, it is not clear which of the guys is better.

Roman has no room to moan, after his '05 season.

That said, he's pretty much a lock to make the team. The JSO depth chart shows him as Manuel's back-up. He's really the only safety with experience in reserve. I'd like to see Underwood come on. I didn't realize Underwood is only 5'10".

[Harlan Huckleby]

Underwood has shown me nothing, biggest dissappointment of last year's draft. Roman made a lot of fine tackles in 2005.

I'm looking forward to the competition this summer.

[Fritz]

Not even a peep about Underwood in the mini-camps. I too found him to be a big disappointment. Is he the fourth-round version of Marques Anderson?

[Patler]

I agree, Underwood was something of a disappointment, although my expectations were not real high.. He was reputed to be a savy safety who read and reacted well. Sure didn't show that last year. A big hitter, I expected more of a ST contribution. He contributed very little.

Oh well. maybe there will be a big second year turn around!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Two more thoughts,

1 - I didn't know management was required to consult players if competion is brought in.

2- Other than elite players(which Roman is not), who would complain about being a back-up in the NFL. The moneys great, he will play some, and may be starting if injuries occur.

How you can continue to miss the point is beyond me.

Roman learned of the signing from the media. That is poor communication on the part of GB.

He isn't complaining about competition, just that no one from the team told him they were signing a player.

How would you feel if you found out that you lost your job by reading it in the paper?. That is poor management.

And, if you don't think those kind of things get talked about between players and that it can influence which teams they sign with than you are really naive.

[Badgepack]

So every player we sign or draft, all players on the team at those positions must first be contacted?

[Rastak]

So every player we sign or draft, all players on the team at those positions must first be contacted?


I have no idea if Roman is full of crap or not but he said he recieved signals indicating he was the guy....then they traded for someone else.
Now I have no idea what the heck "recieved signals" means, but he has been in the league a while now and should understand how it works.
Almost nobody is promised a job.

[Scott Campbell]

The communication from the front office has gotten so bad that Donnel Washington was not informed that he needed to report to camp in football shape.

These stupid Packer executives are so damned forgetful.

[Guiness]

How would you feel if you found out that you lost your job by reading it in the paper?. That is poor management.


I think this part of the statment is what gets me. As I said in my previous post, I find it most interesting that he assumes he's been replaced. There's no fight in that boy.

An attitude of 'they think he's better? HA! No chance he gets my job' would be better.

You're right that players who've been around a while probably deserve a head's up so they don't get blindsided by a reporter asking them what it feels like to be replaced. I'm just not sure how the team goes about it. I honestly don't know how that communication would go, i.e. what the Pack could've said to Roman if they had called him.

"Hello, Roman? TT here. We've signed a younger safety to a deal for more money that you make. Ok? bye" <- I'm thinking that wouldn't work.

[Joemailman]

The communication from the front office has gotten so bad that Donnel Washington was not informed that he needed to report to camp in football shape.

These stupid Packer executives are so damned forgetful.

I heard that during the off-season Donnell purchased that new Cletidus Hunt work-out video.

[Tarlam!]

How would you feel if you found out that you lost your job by reading it in the paper?. That is poor management.


....An attitude of 'they think he's better? HA! No chance he gets my job' would be better.

You're right that players who've been around a while probably deserve a head's up so they don't get blindsided by a reporter asking them what it feels like to be replaced. I'm just not sure how the team goes about it. I honestly don't know how that communication would go, i.e. what the Pack could've said to Roman if they had called him.

"Hello, Roman? TT here. We've signed a younger safety to a deal for more money that you make. Ok? bye"

Guiness, TB has this correct. Just like in his post on page 1 (which I messed, and repeated! Sorry), this deal is about communication. Most companies have a notice board. Ours does. Anyway, one day, one of my direct colleagues and I were reading that board, and there was an announcement that my colleague had been transferred to another department.

Except, nobody had told him first! It was a shitty feeling. In effect, this is what has happened to Roman. It is not very nice.

Now, Roman is a big boy. From the press, it would appear M3 has acknowledged mistakes and, I am guessing, has apologized. Roman should accept this and moe on. He can use his anger as motivation. He should be out to prove TT wasted money on a superfluous free agent signing.

[RashanGary]

Yeah...At my crappy company we just got a new TL. now we can't go on teh internet.....I'm looking over my shoulder right now...

That fucker. I'm ready to quit.

[GrnBay007]

I heard that during the off-season Donnell purchased that new Cletidus Hunt work-out video.

C'mon.......where is Greenday to post one of his Hunt- Fat Albert - dope smokin pics??? It was Greenday, right?

[Tarlam!]

Yeah...At my crappy company we just got a new TL. now we can't go on teh internet.....I'm looking over my shoulder right now...

That fucker. I'm ready to quit.

Gee, you don't think your company can expect you not to loafing on these here pages and instead contributing to their profit and growth? :lol:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

[quote="Guiness"][quote=Tyrone Bigguns]

Guiness, TB has this correct. Just like in his post on page 1 (which I messed, and repeated! Sorry), this deal is about communication. Most companies have a notice board. Ours does. Anyway, one day, one of my direct colleagues and I were reading that board, and there was an announcement that my colleague had been transferred to another department.

Except, nobody had told him first! It was a shitty feeling. In effect, this is what has happened to Roman. It is not very nice.

Now, Roman is a big boy. From the press, it would appear M3 has acknowledged mistakes and, I am guessing, has apologized. Roman should accept this and moe on. He can use his anger as motivation. He should be out to prove TT wasted money on a superfluous free agent signing.

Thank you. Finally someone acknowledges my genius. :mrgreen:

I don't know poster's respective education or what they do for work, but in the white collar world (which at the pay pro athletes make, makes them closer to white than blue) this lack of communication leads to poor attitudes and employees leaving.

For example, a major engineering firm is restructuring. They pushed out a branch manager and brought in a new manager without ever holding any "all hands meeting." What this did was make all senior personnel question their roles and future with the company. And, if they are thinking about this, then they aren't being productive.

Conclusion: A referral from a previous employee of said company allowed me to swoop in a steal one of their senior members (and I guarantee it won't be the last one). A key loss that could have been prevented by COMMUNICATION. A competitor was strengthened and I got PAID.

[Badgepack]

Appreciate your questioning my education. I'll bet that Al Harris was not upset that Woodson was brought in. Tauscher or Clifton also would not have a fit it other tackles were signed. An employee knows when they are not doing their job well and should not be suprised when the are replaced or re-assigned.


A true team player would welcome any improvements made to the team, would welcome the challenge, and bust ass and try to make the starting line up.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Appreciate your questioning my education. I'll bet that Al Harris was not upset that Woodson was brought in. Tauscher or Clifton also would not have a fit it other tackles were signed. An employee knows when they are not doing their job well and should not be suprised when the are replaced or re-assigned.


A true team player would welcome any improvements made to the team, would welcome the challenge, and bust ass and try to make the starting line up.

Who is questioning your education?

The point is not about competition. It is about communication. Roman, lest we forget, was wooed here. To sign another player, who will compete with him, and not let him know he was signed is just poor management. Roman shouldn't find out about it through reporters.

Woodson wasn't brought in to take Harris' job, so that isn't a valid point. And, don't speak about Clifton or Tausch until that situation happens. We do know that Tausch was willing to move to guard, but he wasn't thrilled about it and expressed that his pref was to stay at tackle.

Employees: Hardly true. Most employees don't have an objective view of their skills and abilities. I deal with it daily, believe me, most people are way deluded.

Team players: You are being a bit naive. These are world class athletes with enormous egos. Huge egos that they need in order to compete.

[Badgepack]

Uncle, Uncle, I give.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Uncle, Uncle, I give.

What is your avatar?

No winners or losers. Just opinions. As a packer fan, I would hope Roman competes and makes the team better. From a corporate drone perspective, I look at it differently.

[Badgepack]

Madison Muskies, mid 80's class A team i think, I remember Jose Conseco playing for them and his brother Ozzie too. This was pre-steroids, he was pretty skinny kid then.