Post game chat with Cleft Crusty (Bears)

[Cleft Crusty]

Hi Folks,

Well the Packers finally met up with a better team and lost their first game. Ask Crusty all about it, in my post-game chat. If you're too sore to ask questions, just read my new book "24 most memorable Packer collapses at Lambeau" available on Amazon - just in time. Remember, I wrote 'Bloodbaths in a Mudbath', the history of the Bears Packer rivalry. And although I claim not to be a fan of any team (I'm totally objective), there were many more Bears pics in my book and as a kid I loved the Bears. But I'm objective. Fire away.

[b bulldog]

Do you think Collins will ever have the smarts to go with his athleticism?

[Cleft Crusty]

Do you think Collins will ever have the smarts to go with his athleticism?

He had a Wunderlich score of 14 - that's a little above room temperature. But you need to have more savvy than book learning at safety. Poppinga gave Clark a free release on the play in question, so it wasn't just Collins stinkin' it up.

[b bulldog]

Agree but CVollins is on the bad end of these plays way to often

[BallHawk]

Cleft, what team do you think won tonight?

The more talented team

OR

The team that executed better

Or do you think both?

[Cleft Crusty]

Cleft, what team do you think won tonight?

The more talented team

OR

The team that executed better

Or do you think both?


The better team won. Forcing two fumbles and getting a tough pick showed why the Bears Defense is considered elite even when missing starters. They played well enough to win in a must win game. Bears are the better team. Period.

[Cleft Crusty]

Agree but CVollins is on the bad end of these plays way to often

Like the tipped pass for an interception? Collins isn't a threat to make anyone forget LeRoy Butler, but it's laughable if anyone wants to focus on Collins as the reason for this loss.

[BallHawk]

Cleft, elite defenses don't give up 34 points to the Lions.

[Cleft Crusty]

Cleft, elite defenses don't give up 34 points to the Lions.

They didn't. Perhaps you didn't watch the game or read the accounts, but some NFL observers did and they saw a Lions return for a TD and an onside kick for a TD. The defense wasn't on the field for those plays.

[b bulldog]

he isn't the reason but part of the whole problem. He misses too many tackles and usually drops many pics. Tonight was a first, he actually make a decent play. He is a bust and his play demonstrates this.

[OS PA]

Is the play calling in the second half excusable? As far as I know, if something isn't broken, don't fix it.

[Cleft Crusty]

he isn't the reason but part of the whole problem. He misses too many tackles and usually drops many pics. Tonight was a first, he actually make a decent play. He is a bust and his play demonstrates this.

Busts usually don't start in the NFL after three seasons. The Packers have plenty of options at safety and Collins is the best. Not much of a game changer and not a pro bowler, but not a bust. Joey Thomas and Joey Jamison are busts. Try to separate your emotions from your evaluations and you may find a more satisfying answer. The Packers got beat by a better team with an elite playmaking defense and a better coach.

[Cleft Crusty]

Is the play calling in the second half excusable? As far as I know, if something isn't broken, don't fix it.

Several Packers suffered injuries and Favre threw a pick right to Urlacher. McCarthy apparently chose that time to pull in the reins on Favre. Often on these boards and in my e-mails sent to the JS, I see all kinds of fans wanting Favre to be 'held accountable' for his mistakes. The only two ways to do that are to 1) bench a QB, or 2) change the playcalling so he can't kill you with terrible decisions. It appears McCarthy was responding to Favre's bad judgment and the injuries in going 'conservative' in the second half.

[woodbuck27]

Is the play calling in the second half excusable? As far as I know, if something isn't broken, don't fix it.

That was an obvious error that stole our momentum.

Favre was on fire. The receiving Corps. were in great sync.

Why hose him (them) down in such a criticle game. . .

MM is a young coach and goes to shool two weeks in a row.

He is mighty sharp on the red flag calls though. At least his spoters are.

[The Leaper]

What is the poorer strategy from GB tonight?

Chili-dip kickoffs to the 35 yard line, where you may as well just kick the ball out of bounds and eliminate the chances of a return entirely.

OR

Allowing refs into the stadium to do your game without subjecting them to a simple first grade math test first to determine if they can count anything other than the Benjamins Lovie floated their way before the game?

[Pacopete4]

Cleft Crusty... are you kidding me? pull in the reigns on a guy that had 3 imcompletions (2 spikes) in the first half and then he throws one bad pass and we change everything we do when the only reason we are moving the ball this season is because #4 is playing so well... totally rediculous

[Cleft Crusty]

What is the poorer strategy from GB tonight?

Chili-dip kickoffs to the 35 yard line, where you may as well just kick the ball out of bounds and eliminate the chances of a return entirely.

OR

Allowing refs into the stadium to do your game without subjecting them to a simple first grade math test first to determine if they can count anything other than the Benjamins Lovie floated their way before the game?


You at least have to somewhat question the strategy of the pooch kicks - if for no other reason than the fact that you kept your draft pick because he can tattoo the ball. Perhaps at least let him line drive kick it out the end of the endzone once? Even a pathetic offense like Chicago's can score given great field position.

[woodbuck27]

Is the play calling in the second half excusable? As far as I know, if something isn't broken, don't fix it.

Several Packers suffered injuries and Favre threw a pick right to Urlacher. McCarthy apparently chose that time to pull in the reins on Favre. Often on these boards and in my e-mails sent to the JS, I see all kinds of fans wanting Favre to be 'held accountable' for his mistakes. The only two ways to do that are to 1) bench a QB, or 2) change the playcalling so he can't kill you with terrible decisions. It appears McCarthy was responding to Favre's bad judgment and the injuries in going 'conservative' in the second half.

Yup Cleft Crusty.

Favre looked terrible on that play (toss it down tighter) than that lobe and later Brett got way too loose.

A lot went wrong with our team and coaching in that second half.

Really a shock considering a marvelous opening.

GO PACK GO !

[Cleft Crusty]

Cleft Crusty... are you kidding me? pull in the reigns on a guy that had 3 imcompletions (2 spikes) in the first half and then he throws one bad pass and we change everything we do when the only reason we are moving the ball this season is because #4 is playing so well... totally rediculous

If you read my response I gave two reasons. A third reason for McCarthy's playcalling was field position. a fourth would be the fact that the Packer defense was playing fairly well and they were facing a limited offense.

[woodbuck27]

What is the poorer strategy from GB tonight?

Chili-dip kickoffs to the 35 yard line, where you may as well just kick the ball out of bounds and eliminate the chances of a return entirely.

OR

Allowing refs into the stadium to do your game without subjecting them to a simple first grade math test first to determine if they can count anything other than the Benjamins Lovie floated their way before the game?

NFL refereeing is just ridiculous. The worst in PRO Sports.

I have never seen anyting like that early challenge by MM on the decided incomplete pass TO or what in H was that. . . and the Bears gained posssession.

That play call was really weird for me.

[Cleft Crusty]

Is the play calling in the second half excusable? As far as I know, if something isn't broken, don't fix it.

Several Packers suffered injuries and Favre threw a pick right to Urlacher. McCarthy apparently chose that time to pull in the reins on Favre. Often on these boards and in my e-mails sent to the JS, I see all kinds of fans wanting Favre to be 'held accountable' for his mistakes. The only two ways to do that are to 1) bench a QB, or 2) change the playcalling so he can't kill you with terrible decisions. It appears McCarthy was responding to Favre's bad judgment and the injuries in going 'conservative' in the second half.

Yup Cleft Crusty.

Favre looked terrible on that play (toss it down tighter) than that lobe and later Brett got way too loose.

A lot went wrong with our team and coaching in that second half.

Really a shock considering a marvelous opening.

GO PACK GO !

Yes, but you have to come to grips with the fact that Chicago is the better team, because of it's defense. They didn't get lucky, they forced turnovers. That's what elite players do. Woodson forced no turnovers and gave up one - Charles Tillman forced two and saved points. Who had the better game?

[Pacopete4]

your other reason was bench which i just chose not to mention cuz its insane.. and the whole thing about field postion?.. the only way you change it is your offense, the one thats WORKED for 4 weeks in a row, to move the ball like they are capable of doing

and NOT going into a shell and trying to play smash mouth football when the team we are playin are probably the best at playing that. We are spread ya out, let favre pick and choose matchups and get yards after the catch.. McCarthy listened to too many analysts and dumb people on this forum telling him that he cant win without a running game... well we ran this week, pretty well too... oh ya, its our first loss of the season... STICK TO WHAT WORKS MY GOD!

[woodbuck27]

Cleft Crusty... are you kidding me? pull in the reigns on a guy that had 3 imcompletions (2 spikes) in the first half and then he throws one bad pass and we change everything we do when the only reason we are moving the ball this season is because #4 is playing so well... totally rediculous

If you read my response I gave two reasons. A third reason for McCarthy's playcalling was field position. a fourth would be the fact that the Packer defense was playing fairly well and they were facing a limited offense.

Yes field position was a factor in his play calling.

[Cleft Crusty]

your other reason was bench which i just chose not to mention cuz its insane.. and the whole thing about field postion?.. the only way you change it is your offense, the one thats WORKED for 4 weeks in a row, to move the ball like they are capable of doing

But the Packers couldn't do it in the second half, because the Bear's defense stepped up their play also. The Packers weren't playing against mannequins, but one of the best defenses in all of football. Chicago was able to play field position with their offense, because they knew their defense would force turnovers and be the difference in the game. Plus, they knew all they had to do was wait for Favre to implode - and he did.

[Pacopete4]

implode? he threw one bad pass that shouldnt of been the difference maker in the game even. You talk about the bears defense like its amazing but yet gave up 340 yards against them in ONE HALF... the only.. and i mean only reason they didnt give that up in the 2nd half was the brutal play calling by mccarthy.. but your right slant passes only work when your across your own 20 yard line.. most rediculous thing ive heard

[Cleft Crusty]

implode? he threw one bad pass that shouldnt of been the difference maker in the game even. You talk about the bears defense like its amazing but yet gave up 340 yards against them in ONE HALF... the only.. and i mean only reason they didnt give that up in the 2nd half was the brutal play calling by mccarthy.. but your right slant passes only work when your across your own 20 yard line.. most rediculous thing ive heard

Who caused more turnovers? Who made the big plays? Who won the game? I'll give you a challenge. Go to your newspaper tomorrow morning or go online and look at the QBs who put up big numbers. Often times they do because they had to keep throwing to stay in games or catch up. Stats are meaningless if the opponent makes more plays. Chicago couldn't care less if Favre threw for 500 yards - they just had to keep making plays. Eilite defenses and players do that - like a Tillman or Urlcher for example. Poor players get called for facemasking when they try to tackle from out of position.

[Pacopete4]

can you name me one QB that had a huge stat day today and lost?... all i see is brady, manning, rivers, shaub that lit it up and won.. only one that didnt win is favre and only because his coach wet himself in the 2nd half

[Cleft Crusty]

can you name me one QB that had a huge stat day today and lost?... all i see is brady, manning, rivers, shaub that lit it up and won.. only one that didnt win is favre and only because his coach wet himself in the 2nd half

Anderson, CLE, 287
Brees, NO, 252
Frerrote STL, 262
Favre, GB 322

Schaub, Rivers, Manning, and Campbell had 294, 270, 253, and 248 respectively. Young and Roethlisberger had 157 and 206 respectively in wins,.

Desperate teams relying only on the pass or trying to catch up often put up big empty worthless passing stats.

[Pacopete4]

last week in the dome.. favre threw for over 350 when we were winning the whole game... week before pretty much the same... this week shoulda been the same.. shoulda ended up about 350, 2 td's, 1 int and about a 10 point win if mccarthy didnt blow it

[Harlan Huckleby]

Cleft,

I thought older, retired gentlemen like yourself ate dinner at the early bird special, then settled into bed around 8:30.

How you holding up tonight?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Cleft,

I thought the final two-minute office was lame. Pacing way too slow, too many dump-off passes, ended up with long desperation pass.

Doesn't some of this poor execuction fall on the field general, Brett Fahrvrah?

edit: evidently Cleft just fell asleep in his puffy easy chair, droil rolling down his chin.

[Cleft Crusty]

last week in the dome.. favre threw for over 350 when we were winning the whole game... week before pretty much the same... this week shoulda been the same.. shoulda ended up about 350, 2 td's, 1 int and about a 10 point win if mccarthy didnt blow it

Would Coulda Shoulda. These are the buzz words of losers. Favres yardage was empty because the Bears vastly superior playmakers made plays. At corner back, the Packers were -3 in turnovers. At LB, Urlacher made a shoestring INT resulting in a TD, and shut down the Packers TEs all night. Brady Poppinga gave a free release on a critical third down and Barnett got a 15 yard facemask on another. Great Players make great plays for Elite teams. Chicago was missing multiple starters and was playing with a stumblebum at QB. The Packers were so terrified of the BEars D line, they wouldn't even pass in the second half until the Bears were playing prevent. They were so terrified of Hester they gave Chicago great field position all night. Face reality - the Bears are a vastly superior team.

[Cleft Crusty]

Cleft,

I thought older, retired gentlemen like yourself ate dinner at the early bird special, then settled into bed around 8:30.

How you holding up tonight?

I took several naps during the day. I was responsible for watching the Lions Redskins game. Nothing much there to keep me awake.

[Cleft Crusty]

Cleft,

I thought the final two-minute office was lame. Pacing way too slow, too many dump-off passes, ended up with long desperation pass.

Doesn't some of this poor execuction fall on the field general, Brett Fahrvrah?

edit: evidently Cleft just fell asleep in his puffy easy chair, droil rolling down his chin.

Sorry Mr. Harlan,

My Lipitor makes me queasy - but at least my Cholesterol level is down to 37.

The Packers final drive was just fine, considering the Bears were playing back and keeping everything in front of them and also watching the sidelines. But you're right, the Packers let too many seconds tick off. They shouldn't have had to settle for such a long final pass.

[Pacopete4]

boy.. you musta put in a game tape of the first game last year to think the bears were the better team on that field last night..

i agree with you that real players make plays when they need to but man.. the packers had the most talent on that field by far and we're talking special teams too.. we covered when we had to and had some nice run backs.. yes woodson coughed up the ball but thats all apart of the game if youre gonna tell me thats cuz the bears are so much better i wanna know why they have 3 loses already..

[Cleft Crusty]

boy.. you musta put in a game tape of the first game last year to think the bears were the better team on that field last night..

i agree with you that real players make plays when they need to but man.. the packers had the most talent on that field by far and we're talking special teams too.. we covered when we had to and had some nice run backs.. yes woodson coughed up the ball but thats all apart of the game if youre gonna tell me thats cuz the bears are so much better i wanna know why they have 3 loses already..

The Bears started the game missing 3 starters and lost two more during the game. Their biggest two problems all season long have been injuries and the play of their QB. Last night their QB was OK. Their defense totally shut out the Packer offense in the second half, when it mattered and they collectively MADE PLAYS. Don't you understand - all the yards in the world mean nothing if you can make plays, cause turnovers and win, even with 5 starters out. The fact that Griese played better than Favre in the second half and the fact that the Bears will get some of their starters back and at full strength should worry the Packers. The Bears are still clearly an Elite team and the team to beat in the NFC north. They were clearly better than the Packers last night.

[Pacopete4]

out of all the analysts and non bear fans.. youre the only person to say that i think.. it was clear the packers were the better TEAM and just fell flat.. i'd bet you the bears wont sniff the NFC north crown... oh, and talk about coulda woulda shoulda.. u throw injuries at me? they are apart of the game my friend.. the pack had a few themself

[Deputy Nutz]

I am not going to sit here and bitch to about play calling, the fact is McCarthy thought he could do something and he couldn't in the second half, but do you drastically change your game plan based on what the other team does?

You make valid points about the unnecessary penalties and turnovers. What I saw though was a better talented team crack under the pressure and a team that has gotten breaks in the past due to their lack of concentration.

[esoxx]

Yes, but you have to come to grips with the fact that Chicago is the better team, because of it's defense.

The fact that the Packers are 4-1 and the Bears are 2-3 would seem to contradict your "fact" that Chicago is the better team.

[Rastak]

Yes, but you have to come to grips with the fact that Chicago is the better team, because of it's defense.

The fact that the Packers are 4-1 and the Bears are 2-3 would seem to contradict your "fact" that Chicago is the better team.



So the team with the best record is always the better team? Not so fast my friend as Lee Corso would say. I'm not saying the Bears are better either, just that a two game lead early in the year is hardly a definitive statement.

[Deputy Nutz]

Yes, but you have to come to grips with the fact that Chicago is the better team, because of it's defense.

The fact that the Packers are 4-1 and the Bears are 2-3 would seem to contradict your "fact" that Chicago is the better team.



So the team with the best record is always the better team? Not so fast my friend as Lee Corso would say. I'm not saying the Bears are better either, just that a two game lead early in the year is hardly a definitive statement.

Its like in the UFC, it is the guy who is the better fighter that night, The Bears played an overall better football game than the Packers. That is the only truth about last nights game.

[BEARMAN]

Who's better then whom... who won the last 4 meetings at your house, who cares ! Who won last night is all that matters !

[Rastak]

Who's better then whom... who won the last 4 meetings at your house, who cares ! Who won last night is all that matters !



You just wait until next week BEARMAN......the Vikes will open a family size can of whoopass on your ass to the tune of 6-3. Wait until you see the kickass offense! You think the Packers were tough?


:shock:

[Scott Campbell]

Who's better then whom... who won the last 4 meetings at your house, who cares ! Who won last night is all that matters !



You just wait until next week BEARMAN......the Vikes will open a family size can of whoopass on your ass to the tune of 6-3. Wait until you see the kickass offense! You think the Packers were tough?


:shock:


Twice yearly I root for the Vikings.

[Joemailman]

Adrian Peterson has a chance to cause the Bears real problems...if Childress sticks with him in the second half.

[Rastak]

Adrian Peterson has a chance to cause the Bears real problems...if Childress sticks with him in the second half.



Hey, it's Adrian Peterson vs Adrian Peterson....may the best Peterson win!

[Harlan Huckleby]

Adrian Peterson has a chance to cause the Bears real problems

Both of them!

[esoxx]

Yes, but you have to come to grips with the fact that Chicago is the better team, because of it's defense.

The fact that the Packers are 4-1 and the Bears are 2-3 would seem to contradict your "fact" that Chicago is the better team.



So the team with the best record is always the better team?

Yes, that's typically how it works.

I guess I have a problem with having "to come to grips with the fact that Chicago is the better team". They certainly were last year. This year, that is hardly a fact, and quite possibly the Packers have the better club.

[Rastak]

Yes, but you have to come to grips with the fact that Chicago is the better team, because of it's defense.

The fact that the Packers are 4-1 and the Bears are 2-3 would seem to contradict your "fact" that Chicago is the better team.



So the team with the best record is always the better team?

Yes, that's typically how it works.

I guess I have a problem with having "to come to grips with the fact that Chicago is the better team". They certainly were last year. This year, that is hardly a fact, and quite possibly the Packers have the better club.


Actually, I'm with ya Essox. The Bears are NOT dominant this year. But I never say the team with the best record is the best team....too many variables.

[Cleft Crusty]

Yes, but you have to come to grips with the fact that Chicago is the better team, because of it's defense.

The fact that the Packers are 4-1 and the Bears are 2-3 would seem to contradict your "fact" that Chicago is the better team.



So the team with the best record is always the better team?

Yes, that's typically how it works.

I guess I have a problem with having "to come to grips with the fact that Chicago is the better team". They certainly were last year. This year, that is hardly a fact, and quite possibly the Packers have the better club.


Actually, I'm with ya Essox. The Bears are NOT dominant this year. But I never say the team with the best record is the best team....too many variables.


The Bears don't have to be dominant to be the better team. They just have to make more plays and win. They have more game changers on their roster than the Packers, which allowed them to 1) cause turnovers 2) capitalize on them in crucial situations (the Bear's rookie TE is far better than any TE GB can trot on the field) and 3) Step up with three starters out and completely shut down the Packers' offense for an entire half. Clearly they are better. It's not even close in fact. Packer fans want to celebrate all of Favre's empty yards in the first half but so what? What did it get them? Not enough points to win. Even worse for Packer fans is that they have to live with the fact that Griese completely outplayed Favre in the second half.

[Pacopete4]

the more and more i read from this guy, the more and more a joke he becomes... why the hell does anyone sit and ask him questions after a game.. I'd rather listen to John Clayton or Mel Kiper

[Harlan Huckleby]

the more and more i read from this guy, the more and more a joke he becomes... why the hell does anyone sit and ask him questions after a game.. I'd rather listen to John Clayton or Mel Kiper

Rack him! Huge call! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

With apologies to W.C. Fields, anybody who hates dogs, children and crusty old men can't be all bad.

[MJZiggy]

the more and more i read from this guy, the more and more a joke he becomes... why the hell does anyone sit and ask him questions after a game.. I'd rather listen to John Clayton or Mel Kiper

Don't tell him this because he'll need a nitro patch and quite possibly minor surgery if you do...but Cleft IS a joke. A parody. Actually, I guess the same could be said for Clayton and Kiper. Fire up your sense of humor and join in...(and once his liver function returns to normal, he might answer)

[Harlan Huckleby]

Cleft IS a joke.

Way to pile-on, Ziggy.

Cleft is a slight embarassment to PAckerRats, but so what? We'll all be old and daffy like Cleft and Shadow someday. Show a little respect.

[Deputy Nutz]

You all leave Cleft alone, sure the humor isn't there after a loss to the Bear but so what, I call it insightful.