Ahman Green vs DeShawn Wynn

[Patler]

Green - 35 carries, 149 yards, 4.3/carry
Wynn - 36 carries, 165 yards, 4.6/carry

I'm not in any way suggesting that Wynn will ever be as good as Green, or that he will out perform Green this season. Green might come back and play well. But there is a time to let the past go and move on to the future. Green might be there.

I wonder how Wynn and the Packers would have done if he had lasted more then one series against the Bears?! :lol:

[BallHawk]

DeShawn has talent, he just needs to get himself in shape.

No matter how raw you are, going out with cramps after the 1st drive is just inexcusable. I'm sure that they worked on his endurance in camp.

[RashanGary]

Yeah, most here weren't jumping off any cliffs after Green left. There are always a few who are extreme in every arguement, but I recall the majority opinion was pretty OK with Green's departure. Turns out the majority wasn't so far off base.

[Patler]

DeShawn has talent, he just needs to get himself in shape.

No matter how raw you are, going out with cramps after the 1st drive is just inexcusable. I'm sure that they worked on his endurance in camp.

It's not a conditioning issue. It was dehydration. Even supremely conditioned athletes can dehydrate. An article this week said that Wynn is being given a special mix and will have private bottles to drink from during the game. The medical staff determined that their standard "Gatorade" mix used by the other players does not adequately replenish some things Wynn loses when he sweats, apparently. He was drinking abundant volumes of the stuff this week and will during the game, too.

[BallHawk]

Yeah, most here weren't jumping off any cliffs after Green left. There are always a few who are extreme in every arguement, but I recall the majority opinion was pretty OK with Green's departure. Turns out tha the majority wasn't so far off base.

I recall that the majority really wanted Green back and were upset when he left, but realized that the contract that he received wouldn't of been a good deal on the Packers' part.

[BallHawk]

DeShawn has talent, he just needs to get himself in shape.

No matter how raw you are, going out with cramps after the 1st drive is just inexcusable. I'm sure that they worked on his endurance in camp.

It's not a conditioning issue. It was dehydration. Even supremely conditioned athletes can dehydrate. An article this week said that Wynn is being given a special mix and will have private bottles to drink from during the game. The medical staff determined that their standard "Gatorade" mix used by the other players does not adequately replenish some things Wynn loses when he sweats, apparently. He was drinking abundant volumes of the stuff this week and will during the game, too.

Wow, I didn't know that.

I'd love to know what type of concoction he's going to be chugging down on Sunday.

[RashanGary]

That's pretty much what I said. It was a loss, but not a huge one. OVERALL most seemed pretty OK with it. There were a couple who wrote the season off and called for TT's head. Most thought it was a borderline move and wanted to see it play out.

[Patler]

Makes you wonder how much influence Sherman had in getting the Texans to fork over for Green. Could turn out like the Joe Johnson signing if Green can't stay healthy. Huge contract for a player who was woth it a few years ago, but maybe not now.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It's not a conditioning issue. It was dehydration. Even supremely conditioned athletes can dehydrate.

Supremely conditioned athletes are particularly vulnerable to cramps.
And poorly conditioned athletes have cramp problems too.

Wynn is a chunky lad, I place my money on him being in the latter camp.

I think poor conditioning is part of the mix. But I don't know, and either do you.

Dehydrated in the opening drive!?

[GBRulz]

Yeah, most here weren't jumping off any cliffs after Green left. There are always a few who are extreme in every arguement, but I recall the majority opinion was pretty OK with Green's departure. Turns out the majority wasn't so far off base.

The majority here did not want to see Green go, but agreed that he wasn't worth the contract that Texas gave him. The reason many got upset was because there wasn't anyone with experience to replace him.

[Patler]

It's not a conditioning issue. It was dehydration. Even supremely conditioned athletes can dehydrate.

Supremely conditioned athletes are particularly vulnerable to cramps.
And poorly conditioned athletes have cramp problems too.

Wynn is a chunky lad, I place my money on him being in the latter camp.

I think poor conditioning is part of the mix. But I don't know, and either do you.

Dehydrated in the opening drive!?

Never said I did know, but I do know the GB medical staff believes he loses an unusually large amount of somethings when he sweats, which they believe caused his cramping. Thats why he has a special brew to drink, and has private water bottles not to be used by the other players.

It's not unusual for sprinters to cramp up running a 100 yard dash. How is that any different than Wynn cramping up after the first series?

[Patler]

Wynn is a chunky lad, I place my money on him being in the latter camp.


Chunky? You know this how? He's larger than some of the other backs, but I've never heard him referred to as "chunky", which generally carries the implication of being overweight and out of condition.

[RashanGary]

Wynn is better now than I thought he would be. The more I see of him, the more excited I get about how good he really can be once he gets his body in tip top shape (I buy into the theory that he's not in great shape. He's somewhat admitted it to a couple of the 107.5 guys and it was a knock on him comming out of college).


Jackson doesn't seem like an every down running back, but he does have some redeeming skills. I've been impressed with his decision making in space. He doesn't leave any yards on the field when he's in open space. I'm not as impressed with his initial decisions though. He seems much better in space.

Overall, Wynn looks like the base down player and Jackson seems like the 3rd down / situational back. I could see a 60% 40% split with Wynn/Jackson next year.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I was watching him ride the exercise bike during the close-up shots during the game. HE's got a bit of a gut on him. Not enough for Ziggy to kick him out of bed, but he doesn't look in top shape to me.

Jerome Bettis played with a monster belly. It's not impossible..

[RashanGary]

I was watching him ride the exercise bike during the close-up shots during the game. HE's got a bit of a gut on him. Not enough for Ziggy to kick him out of bed, but he doesn't look in top shape to me.

I've seen that too. You can see it when he's leaning forward in pictures too. Most top RB's are solid.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It's not unusual for sprinters to cramp up running a 100 yard dash. How is that any different than Wynn cramping up after the first series?

Those sprinters are not claiming they are cramping due to dehydration.

Anything is possible: conditioning, dehydration, act of God

[GBRulz]

I was watching him ride the exercise bike during the close-up shots during the game. HE's got a bit of a gut on him. Not enough for Ziggy to kick him out of bed, but he doesn't look in top shape to me.

Jerome Bettis played with a monster belly. It's not impossible..

ut oh, I'm sure Zig will be on that comment soon.....

[MJZiggy]

I was watching him ride the exercise bike during the close-up shots during the game. HE's got a bit of a gut on him. Not enough for Ziggy to kick him out of bed, but he doesn't look in top shape to me.

Jerome Bettis played with a monster belly. It's not impossible..

What did I ever do to you????

[Bretsky]

I don't think our full time RB in two years is on this year's roster

[Harlan Huckleby]

What did I ever do to you????

Exactly. Hell hath no fury like a man scorned.

[retailguy]

I don't think our full time RB in two years is on this year's roster

I would venture to say that NEXT years starting running back is not currently on the roster.

[RashanGary]

I don't think our full time RB in two years is on this year's roster

What's wrong with Wynn? ? ?

[retailguy]

I don't think our full time RB in two years is on this year's roster

What's wrong with Wynn? ? ?

Nothing, really. But there is better out there, and guys with motivation reputations typically don't change their spots. He's a work in progress, and has the talent to be "good enough", but special? I'm not yet convinced, though I like him better than Morency, PJ Pope, and "Cement Shoes" Herron.

I think he might develop into a really good 3rd down back, with the upside of being a Marion Barber clone, which, when you think about it, isn't bad for a 7th round pick.

I want the next Ahman Green...

[Patler]

I was watching him ride the exercise bike during the close-up shots during the game. HE's got a bit of a gut on him. Not enough for Ziggy to kick him out of bed, but he doesn't look in top shape to me.

Jerome Bettis played with a monster belly. It's not impossible..

Do you know if he wears a rib vest?

[Patler]

Anything is possible: conditioning, dehydration, act of God

Funny, I was commenting based on what the GB medical staff said occurred, and the extra steps they are taking to correct it. But I guess you know more about it than they do.

[RashanGary]

I want the next Ahman Green...

He's in Minnesota.

I find it much more realistic to set goals like "having a playoff competitive football team" rather than goals like "I want the next Ahman Green".

Did we charge Sherman with the responsiblity of finding the next Leroy Butler or next Reggie White? That is just not realistic. It's a great goal for someone who wants to set a guy up for failure because you think he's the antichrist and a lying prick. It's a bad goal if you have any ground in reality.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Funny, I was commenting based on what the GB medical staff said occurred, and the extra steps they are taking to correct it. But I guess you know more about it than they do.

bullshit. They talked about better hydration as a preventative measure. But they don't know that is what caused his cramping, and they never stated this.

[Bretsky]

I don't think our full time RB in two years is on this year's roster

What's wrong with Wynn? ? ?

Nothing wrong with him, I just don't see him as being reliable enough to carry the loan. I see Wynn as a Najeh Davenport kind of back; possibly the guy to get the ball into the end zone. Hope I'm wrong though

[retailguy]

I want the next Ahman Green...

He's in Minnesota.

I find it much more realistic to set goals like "having a playoff competitive football team" rather than goals like "I want the next Ahman Green".

Did we charge Sherman with the responsiblity of finding the next Leroy Butler or next Reggie White? That is just not realistic. It's a great goal for someone who wants to set a guy up for failure because you think he's the antichrist and a lying prick. It's a bad goal if you have any ground in reality.

You must be desperate with all the Sherman references lately...

Sherman was charged with replacing a defensive line that was under performing and failed at that task. As a result, he failed getting the Packers back to the Super Bowl and as a result, lost his job.

The current GM is charged with doing similar things, at different positions, and will eventually lose his job if he has similar results. He is a lying prick, and would probably admit to that, and is keeping Wynn around, until one of two things happen - A. He abandons his "lazy" reputation and becomes an elite back, or B. someone else comes along that's better.

we'll see which one comes first. My bet is on the latter, but hey if I'm "not grounded in reality" which you claim, then hop a flight to Vegas and bet on the former. I'd be only too happy to help you lose your money.

[retailguy]

Nothing wrong with him, I just don't see him as being reliable enough to carry the loan.

:?: does everything have to have a mortgage reference for you? :wink:

[Harlan Huckleby]

I see Wynn as a Najeh Davenport kind of back; possibly the guy to get the ball into the end zone. Hope I'm wrong though

Hope you are right! That would be plenty good. We can find Walter Payton in the next draft.

[MJZiggy]

What did I ever do to you????

Exactly. Hell hath no fury like a man scorned.

And how exactly did I "scorn" you?

[RashanGary]

I want the next Ahman Green...

He's in Minnesota.

I find it much more realistic to set goals like "having a playoff competitive football team" rather than goals like "I want the next Ahman Green".

Did we charge Sherman with the responsiblity of finding the next Leroy Butler or next Reggie White? That is just not realistic. It's a great goal for someone who wants to set a guy up for failure because you think he's the antichrist and a lying prick. It's a bad goal if you have any ground in reality.

You must be desperate with all the Sherman references lately...

Sherman was charged with replacing a defensive line that was under performing and failed at that task. As a result, he failed getting the Packers back to the Super Bowl and as a result, lost his job.

The current GM is charged with doing similar things, at different positions, and will eventually lose his job if he has similar results. He is a lying prick, and would probably admit to that, and is keeping Wynn around, until one of two things happen - A. He abandons his "lazy" reputation and becomes an elite back, or B. someone else comes along that's better.

we'll see which one comes first. My bet is on the latter, but hey if I'm "not grounded in reality" which you claim, then hop a flight to Vegas and bet on the former. I'd be only too happy to help you lose your money.

Once again, you are twisting and skewing my words to fit your arguemnt. I said Thompsons goal is to first get the team back to the playoffs and then win the SB. I agree if he does not do those things he will be fired and deservedly so. However, finding an elite RB is not a must in his crusade. The Patriots, Packers, Bucaneers and Steelers have proved you can win a SB without a probowl RB. It's the overall strenght of the team that counts. If the Packers make the playoffs this year, they are meeting reasonable expectations, and maybe even exceeding them considering the surrounding circumstances. From the playoffs, they need to take the next step. The only way you can possibly win this conversation is by twisting it into a very tight, meaningless corner of Wynn becoming Green. I'm not willing to get into that type of a debate as I don't think Wynn will ever be as good as Green was. I think he can be good enough, similar to LEvens though. I'm not even hitching my wagon to that though. The success of Wynn and Jackson are a part of the whole, but not the only thing that will factor into the short and long term success of this team.

[Harlan Huckleby]

What did I ever do to you????

Exactly. Hell hath no fury like a man scorned.

And how exactly did I "scorn" you?

ziggy, my jokes are just barely funny. when you make me explain them, i really become a hack.

you scorned me by not doing anything to me. get it. nudge nudge, wink wink.

[retailguy]

What did I ever do to you????

Exactly. Hell hath no fury like a man scorned.

And how exactly did I "scorn" you?

It's too late for that, if you don't know, you DESERVE this treatment. And, by the way, do you really think he wants an apology if he has to ask for one? What good would that be? What kind of a woman are you if you don't know these things?

[retailguy]

Once again, you are twisting and skewing my words to fit your arguemnt. I said blah, blah blah, blah blah.

I'm not in an "argument". I think that's what you meant, anyhow....

I'm just responding to an immature, overreaching, paranoid hack, who's hero is a lying prick. :P

Just my idea of fun on a Saturday morning. :wink:

[MJZiggy]

What did I ever do to you????

Exactly. Hell hath no fury like a man scorned.

And how exactly did I "scorn" you?

ziggy, my jokes are just barely funny. when you make me explain them, i really become a hack.

you scorned me by not doing anything to me. get it. nudge nudge, wink wink.

If that's what you wanted, the least you could have done was show up...

[Harlan Huckleby]

ya, what is that old saying, "you don't ask, you don't get."

[cpk1994]

2 pages and not one post by Woodbuck? Id figured this would attract him like flies on a rib roast.

[Patler]

Funny, I was commenting based on what the GB medical staff said occurred, and the extra steps they are taking to correct it. But I guess you know more about it than they do.

bullshit. They talked about better hydration as a preventative measure. But they don't know that is what caused his cramping, and they never stated this.

Ah, yes they did. There was an article that discussed the special brew he would be drinking and that he would have his own personal watter bottles with it, even during the game.

So bullshit yourself, asshole.

[esoxx]

But there is a time to let the past go and move on to the future.


Agreed.

Although starting a thread comparing Green to Wynn would seem to contradict moving on.

[Patler]

But there is a time to let the past go and move on to the future.


Agreed.

Although starting a thread comparing Green to Wynn would seem to contradict moving on.

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Although I did mean with players, not opinions!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Bretsky]

But there is a time to let the past go and move on to the future.


Agreed.

Although starting a thread comparing Green to Wynn would seem to contradict moving on.

Yes, that thought passed through my mind as well; that dang trouble maker :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Harlan Huckleby]

Funny, I was commenting based on what the GB medical staff said occurred, and the extra steps they are taking to correct it. But I guess you know more about it than they do.

bullshit. They talked about better hydration as a preventative measure. But they don't know that is what caused his cramping, and they never stated this.

Ah, yes they did. There was an article that discussed the special brew he would be drinking and that he would have his own personal watter bottles with it, even during the game.

So bullshit yourself, asshole.

so what, asshole. :lol: My statement is accurate.

You sure don't like being wrong. :P

[Patler]

Funny, I was commenting based on what the GB medical staff said occurred, and the extra steps they are taking to correct it. But I guess you know more about it than they do.

bullshit. They talked about better hydration as a preventative measure. But they don't know that is what caused his cramping, and they never stated this.

Ah, yes they did. There was an article that discussed the special brew he would be drinking and that he would have his own personal watter bottles with it, even during the game.

So bullshit yourself, asshole.

so what, asshole. :lol: My statement is accurate.

You sure don't like being wrong. :P

So why was my statement "bullshit"?
You must be very comfortable being wrong, because most of the time you are. :twisted:

[superfan]

An article this week said that Wynn is being given a special mix and will have private bottles to drink from during the game. The medical staff determined that their standard "Gatorade" mix used by the other players does not adequately replenish some things Wynn loses when he sweats, apparently. He was drinking abundant volumes of the stuff this week and will during the game, too.

So instead of having a RB who needs to take plays off because of an asthma condition, we now have one who needs to take plays off to find a urinal. :D

[superfan]

He is a lying prick, and would probably admit to that

Nah. If he is a lying prick, then to admit to it would be a true statement. Basic logic. :!: :idea: :thank:

[retailguy]

He is a lying prick, and would probably admit to that

Nah. If he is a lying prick, then to admit to it would be a true statement. Basic logic. :!: :idea: :thank:

Good one. Very good one. :wink:

[4and12to12and4]

Jeez, lots of bad blood in here, I didn't sift through this post, in fact I only read the last three, but, according to the thread title, all I can say is :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

TT f****d up.

[MJZiggy]

Green - 35 carries, 149 yards, 4.3/carry
Wynn - 36 carries, 165 yards, 4.6/carry

I'm not in any way suggesting that Wynn will ever be as good as Green, or that he will out perform Green this season. Green might come back and play well. But there is a time to let the past go and move on to the future. Green might be there.

I wonder how Wynn and the Packers would have done if he had lasted more then one series against the Bears?! :lol:

4and12, when Patler starts a thread, always start with the FIRST three, not the last...

(and I think a lot of this is good hearted teasing...)

[HarveyWallbangers]

Sadly, Ahman is out again this week. Broken down RB who got paid $6.5M/year this offseason.

Ahman - 70 for 260, 3.7 avg, 2 TDs
Grant - 72 for 305, 4.2 avg, 1 TD
Wynn - 50 for 203, 4.1 avg, 4 TDs

[BradStrand]

Sadly, Ahman is out again this week. Broken down RB who got paid $6.5M/year this offseason.


Not so sad. Everybody wins in this situation. Ahman got paid, GB didn't need to waste money/roster spot/developmental playing time on him, TT didn't have to be the bad guy and cut a former great (ala William Henderson), and Mike Sherman got to collect another GB has-been.

The only loser here is the Texans, and I think they dont mind that much, they are comfortable with the role.

[Scott Campbell]

.......TT didn't have to be the bad guy and cut a former great.........



Maybe you weren't around here this summer. Ted caught a TON of crap over Ahman leaving. It was brutal and merciless.