Mason Crosby

[Merlin]

So far this season I am not convinced he was the one to keep. His first poor weather performance in Lambeau and he misses two of three. His kick offs were shaky as well. All I heard before the kicker decision was made is that he is a cold weather kicker and how much better then Rayner he is and that he was younger and youth is the better way to go. It wasn't proven in camp that he was the better kicker, it was a tie. His first cold weather game he chokes, and he is only a year younger then Rayner. So before I get all of the "sky is falling" bs from the people who support 3T and think we are all that and a bag of chips (basically those of you who like to take shit out of context), does anyone else have the same concerns?

He didn't look confident at all out there to me and that is a regression as far as I am concerned. I am not looking for anyone to jump off their bandwagon here but if your kicker in a close game at Lambeau in the weather chokes, that isn't a good thing.

[b bulldog]

I still think he will be fine.

[Joemailman]

I thought he may have slipped a bit on the first miss, and he slipped noticeably on one kickoff. Perhaps he wasn't wearing the right cleats for a wet field.

[Lurker64]

This was his first bad weather game in his first NFL season. No matter how bad he did today, it's too early to really be down on him longterm. If he keeps it up in bad weather, I'll be concerned, but I suspect he'll work on whatever he thinks happened today.

[GBRulz]

I think Crosby will be fine, so let's not write him off after one bad game.

If he continues to struggle in the cold weather, well then I guess we'll be bringing another kicker into camp next year.

[oregonpackfan]

I agree with the posters who feel Crosby will be fine. If you look at this 3 field goal attempts, he hooked all three of them. The one that was good just barely made it inside the left upright. He may have just had an off game.

Crosby passed his pro test, IMO, his very first pro game. Not only did he make all his field goal atttemps. He kicked the winning field goal with just seconds to go in the game. How many rookie kickers would be that successful in their first NFL game?

[gbpackfan]

Crosby will be fine. I was at the game, and not that Crosby can use this excuse forever BUT, the winds and mist rain were doing some strange things today to the football. The kick-offs were short, the punts were almost all ducks and the field goals, even in warm-ups, were inaccurate. Crosby has to get the swirling winds down and then he will be fine. I am not worried.

[Brandon494]

Just like any rookie you not going to be perfect your first season. Cut him some slack. BTW so far he is kicking a high % then Rayner.

[Partial]

Predictable. 10-13 for a rookie kicker who had a terrible game this week is still great. He will only get better.

[Deputy Nutz]

I wasn't impressed with the way the field played in wet weather, like an ice rink out there.

[MJZiggy]

Firstly, I don't remember people saying how much better he was than Rayner. I think TT made a difficult decision that could have gone either way. I don't think Crosby had great footing as has been mentioned before, but let's see what happens in his second crappy-weather game before we decide he sucks. Part of the reason he got this gig in the first place was because Rayner had his own issues in the nasty weather.

[3irty1]

I'm glad he got to see these conditions and his bad performance didn't cost us a loss.

[Patler]

It's hard to be real confident in any kicker until they come out and earn it. I didn't worry about Rayner last year, but I was not real confident in him either. It's much the same with Crosby now. I feel he can do it, I just don't know if he will until he gets through a couple seasons.

One thing should help him in Lambeau, he has a short-legged kick without huge follow-through. It's sort of a short, hard punch. That is what they try to teach kickers to do on bad fields, and its his natural style. He may have 50 yard range even on bad fields.

One thing he has proven already is an ability to tackle. Apparently, he was a very hard-nosed safety in high school. He made a saving tackle in the first game this year, and did again today on the short kick-off when he fell down. He came over and made a very aggressive sideline tackle. He's a football player.

[Little Whiskey]

from now on he never sees the inside of the Hudson Center during practice and he kicks with the sprinklers running!

[cpk1994]

Just like any rookie you not going to be perfect your first season. Cut him some slack. BTW so far he is kicking a high % then Rayner.

I don't take too much stock in what this clown posts. Anybody who has a bad day is a "bust" in this guys opinion. His routine is getting very old oand tired.

[Noodle]

I wonder if he's a guy who relies on a lot of body torque for his kicks. Patler says he has a punchy swing, and that that's good, but it seemed to me his style relies on a rock solid plant with lots of body twist.

I like the idea of him practicing for the rest of the year outside on a filed soaked in 10W-40. If he's going to play here, he's got to get a style that will work with the footing problems we always have, especially late in the year. I'm a little surprised the coaches haven't already exposed him to that.

And Patler is dead on about the kid being a player. He can cut an angle and bring some wood. The kid never got the props he deserved in the Philly game for his hit that caused the fumble on Philly's last possession. Kid's a baller. I just hope he's not a twister.

[CaliforniaCheez]

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/9d/fullj.getty-75557901ms018_washington_re.jpg


I can see why his kicks were aimed left.

[The Leaper]

So far this season I am not convinced he was the one to keep.

So what has Rayner done so far this year? Did he win a game on the opening weekend? Is he 12 for 12 somewhere?

The guy missed one FG by about 5 feet...and doinks another one off the upright...and you are ready to label him a failure?

He has all the tools to be a very good kicker in the NFL for a long time. If you can't see that, you aren't looking.

[Patler]

I didn't see the first miss, I had to take a phone call :x and they didn't replay it. The second hit the upright. It had plenty of height, plenty of distance, just a little bit off line. Six inches over and no one even raises a question about Crosby.

He's 10 of 13, with crucial kicks having been made. Yes, he still has to prove himself, but I don't think we should be concerned yet.

[MJZiggy]

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/9d/fullj.getty-75557901ms018_washington_re.jpg


I can see why his kicks were aimed left.

Maybe he can make that adjustment for the next game...

[Sparkey]

Brave guy to not wear a cup whilst on the gridiron.......


BTW, part of him knew he would miss it left..... lol

[MJZiggy]

Ryan doesn't either. Must get in the way or something.

[Little Whiskey]

talk about a tough player. the guy has made a few tackles on SP and wears no pads or cup.

[Merlin]

Does anyone else have the same concerns?

That is the question.

If anyone can show me where I said we should dump they guy, he sucks, and all of that, please feel free to show me.

Also, if anyone can show me where I deserved to be called a "clown" for stating my opinion I would like to see that to.

Like I have always said, when people don't read or don't have a valid argument, they resort to distorting what was written and name calling.

[MJZiggy]

My concerns lead more toward the idea that he is exactly like Rayner than that he might be worse than Rayner.

[run pMc]

Well, I'm not saying you're a clown.

Long-term I have no concerns. He seems to have the right demeanor and a strong leg for a K. I think he'll put this game behind him and he'll be fine.
Short-term I do have some concerns, if only because the next time he lines up in bad weather I'll be holding my breath. The weather at Lambeau is nasty for kickers...that's a big reason why Longwell, Bidwell, etc., left.
(insert your favorite Appleby's joke here)
Once he gets thru a full season I think he'll have a better idea for what he has to deal with. In the meantime I hope the coaches prep him as much as they can and that he does well.

[Merlin]

My concerns lead more toward the idea that he is exactly like Rayner than that he might be worse than Rayner.

Interesting thought, Rayner and Crosby are similar kickers. Normally with a strong leg you lose accuracy to some degree. Crosby seemed to be a better kicker from farther out then Rayner but Rayner looked better closer in. Kick off -wise I don't think Rayner put his whole body into it like Crosby does so I am sure that is why he was slipping on some kick offs. When Rayner would miss, it would be all over the place. That's what my concern was with him. With Crosby, he was pulling them to the left and it didn't look like he was making an adjustment to change it. I wouldn't have wanted to make the decision between the two but I would have liked to see how Rayner would do for us after a season under his belt.

[Patler]

Does anyone else have the same concerns?

That is the question.

If anyone can show me where I said we should dump they guy, he sucks, and all of that, please feel free to show me.

Also, if anyone can show me where I deserved to be called a "clown" for stating my opinion I would like to see that to.

Like I have always said, when people don't read or don't have a valid argument, they resort to distorting what was written and name calling.

Of all the responses to your post, it appears all but one simply respectfully disagreed with your concern. I wouldn't worry too much about the one response.

That being said, your initial post didn't come right out and say it, but there was a confrontational overtone seemingly indicating a strongly negative feeling on your part about Crosby. It seemed more than just a "concern".

You wrote:


So far this season I am not convinced he was the one to keep. His first poor weather performance in Lambeau and he misses two of three. His kick offs were shaky as well. All I heard before the kicker decision was made is that he is a cold weather kicker and how much better then Rayner he is and that he was younger and youth is the better way to go. It wasn't proven in camp that he was the better kicker, it was a tie. His first cold weather game he chokes, and he is only a year younger then Rayner. So before I get all of the "sky is falling" bs from the people who support 3T and think we are all that and a bag of chips (basically those of you who like to take shit out of context), does anyone else have the same concerns?

He didn't look confident at all out there to me and that is a regression as far as I am concerned. I am not looking for anyone to jump off their bandwagon here but if your kicker in a close game at Lambeau in the weather chokes, that isn't a good thing.

So you are upset because one poster referred to you as a "clown"
But you pre-emptively categorized others opinions as "bs"?
I think you could have anticipated one or two strong reactions.

Personally, I think you over-reacted to one game. Maybe it will be a pattern and he will not be suited for GB. I won't be concerned until it is repeated.

[The Leaper]

Also, if anyone can show me where I deserved to be called a "clown" for stating my opinion I would like to see that to.

You are a clown for suggesting a rookie kicker, who was 9-for-10 coming into the game including a game winner, should be viewed as not having much potential after one game where he wasn't quite on.

Where's your diatribe about Jones? His mistakes actually contributed to a loss.

If Crosby was taking out fans sitting on the goal line with duck hooks, I could see your concern. The fact of the matter was that both of his misses were damn close to being makes. It was the first poor footing game he had in Lambeau. He'll make adjustments and move on. Maybe you'll have reason to yap about your concern if he continues to struggle. Until that point, you are most certainly a clown...the kid won our opener, which helped give this team a lot of confidence.

The kid's leg is too strong and his technique too sound to worry about his potential at this point. Rayner couldn't even get on the field to kick as a rookie, so Crosby is clearly way ahead of Rayner at similar points in their careers.

[Patler]

With Crosby, he was pulling them to the left and it didn't look like he was making an adjustment to change it.

But he did, didn't he? As I said I did not see the first miss, as I was called to the phone. I heard it was wide left by some amount. The second miss hit the upright, so he did bring it back right, just not quite enough. Six inches more and it goes through and we probably aren't even having this discussion.

Many kickers have said that wind in Lambeau is very tricky to deal with. Crosby will likely be learning about it for several years before fully understanding it.

[Merlin]

Also, if anyone can show me where I deserved to be called a "clown" for stating my opinion I would like to see that to.

You are a clown for suggesting a rookie kicker, who was 9-for-10 coming into the game including a game winner, should be viewed as not having much potential after one game where he wasn't quite on.

If Crosby was taking out fans sitting on the goal line with duck hooks, I could see your concern. The fact of the matter was that both of his misses were damn close to being makes. It was the first poor footing game he had in Lambeau. He'll make adjustments and move on. The kid's leg is too strong and his technique too sound to worry about his potential at this point. Rayner couldn't even get on the field to kick as a rookie, so Crosby is clearly way ahead of Rayner at similar points in their careers.

Okay once again READ.....Where did I say he didn't have potential? In fact, when have I ever said that? Where'd I say we need to get rid of him? Where'd I say he sucks? Oh I see, I am not allowed to have concerns after watching a kicker with plenty of potential have bad games like this last year. I get it, you think you are the only one allowed to post an opinion and ask questions. And if anyone disagrees with you, you resort to name calling and distorting what was said. AND I AM THE CLOWN?

Oh and by the way, who was Rayner backing up? Hrmmmm? Just because you didn't like him and doesn't mean the guy didn't have potential and won't be a great kicker in the NFL. It's too early to judge either of them in that respect but then again, what do I know. <Insert words in my mouth here>.

Do I need to post the question a 3rd time or do you want to continue to ramble on incoherently?

[Patler]

Merlin;

Why in your first post, did you categorize contrary opinions as "bs" before anyone even responded? Did you expect that would promote a reasoned discussion?

You can call other's opinions "bs", but you take offense if someone refers to you as a "clown"?

[Merlin]

It's intent was to ward of the usual "The Sky is falling" BS, just as it states. I would think that was obvious. Maybe I need to type it bigger and slower next time. Can you show me where it says that all other opinions are BS? It was an attempt to facilitate a reasonable discussion and avoid the usual bullshit that almost always ends up in the conversation. Now I see that no matter what is written, the bullshit will continue. Make sure you show me where I said all other opinions are bullshit to. Or do we need to continue this bullshit of <Insert words into my mouth>.?

[Carolina_Packer]

To paraphrase Allen Iverson..."We're talkin' 'bout kickers!" :)

The embedded picture showing Crosby's kicking "compass"...classic! Perhaps they need to make banana hammocks for kickers and punters.

[MJZiggy]

To paraphrase Allen Iverson..."We're talkin' 'bout kickers!" :)

The embedded picture showing Crosby's kicking "compass"...classic! Perhaps they need to make banana hammocks for kickers and punters.

I think they're fine the way they are. :whist:

[Patler]

It's intent was to ward of the usual "The Sky is falling" BS, just as it states. I would think that was obvious. Maybe I need to type it bigger and slower next time. Can you show me where it says that all other opinions are BS? It was an attempt to facilitate a reasonable discussion and avoid the usual bullshit that almost always ends up in the conversation. Now I see that no matter what is written, the bullshit will continue. Make sure you show me where I said all other opinions are bullshit to. Or do we need to continue this bullshit of <Insert words into my mouth>.?

OK, if you want to play that game, show me where I said that you called ALL other opinions "bs"? Did you not refer to opinions of others, (I guess for YOU to understand I should have written "SOME others") as "bs"?

I responded to your post with several legitimate opinions, as did all but one other post. Of 22 responses before your initial response, 21 discussed Crosby (not all seriously) and one criticized you. Yet you elected to rant and rave about that one other post..

Are most interested in acting like the persecuted maverick of the forum, or discussing Crosby?

[HarveyWallbangers]

From the Press Gazette:


Thumbs down

At least rookie kicker Mason Crosby's misses didn't cost the Packers the game, but his footing problems were reminiscent of former kicker Ryan Longwell's missteps during his first season as the Packers kicker in 1997.

In his second game as a pro, Longwell missed a game-winning kick on a rainy day in Philadelphia and blamed it on not having the right shoes for the slippery surface.

In his sixth career game, Crosby struggled to find the right spikes on a rainy day and had the worst game of his brief pro career. He missed field goals of 46 and 38 yards and slipped on a kickoff in the second half that prompted special teams coach Mike Stock to order Crosby to change his cleats. Crosby did manage a 37-yard field goal to go 1-for-3.

His misses could have proven costly in a tight game. His first one cost the Packers a chance to grab some momentum going into the locker room at halftime and cut into Washington's 14-7 lead. He hooked a 46-yarder wide left. His miss from 38 yards in the fourth quarter hit the left upright.

Crosby had been solid in the first five games. He went 3-for-3 in his regular-season debut, including the game-winner from 42 yards with 2 seconds left against Philadelphia, and came into Sunday's game having made nine of 10 field goals. His only previous miss was a 42-yarder in Week 2 against the New York Giants.

[The Leaper]

Okay once again READ.....Where did I say he didn't have potential?

You did not directly say it. You never do, simply so you can use this rhetorical BS to make yourself feel good.

You DID indirectly say it...by claiming we should've kept Rayner, a guy who miserably faltered down the stretch last season with some rather awful looking kicks, over Crosby based on yesterday's performance. Your "see I told you so" routine is boring and tired. Where were you claiming that you were wrong about Crosby when he was 9 for 10?

You conveniently decide to post items regarding your opinions only when circumstances are favorable to your line of reasoning.


Oh I see, I am not allowed to have concerns after watching a kicker with plenty of potential have bad games like this last year. I get it, you think you are the only one allowed to post an opinion and ask questions. And if anyone disagrees with you, you resort to name calling and distorting what was said. AND I AM THE CLOWN?

Yes, you are the clown. You can have all the concern you want to. We've gone over this during preseason, and your opinion has been duly noted. Now, we have to wait for the season to progress through to completion to find out whether you are right or wrong. We can't sit here and wave our hands in air after every week...the kid will have his ups and downs, and we need to let him play all year through all types of weather in order to evaluate him.

Starting up a thread on Crosby a day after he had a less than stellar outing is hardly evidence that your opinion is right. I believe Crosby is the better choice over Rayner...did you see me start up a thread telling you where to stick it after week one?


It's too early to judge either of them in that respect but then again, what do I know.

So why is this thread even here then? We know your opinion...all you have to do is search previous threads on the topic to figure that out.

Clearly, you started this thread simply because you wanted to pick a fight with someone...which is why, as Patler pointed out, you ignored 20+ reasonable replies to focus on the one negative one.

Therefore, you are a clown.

[Joemailman]

I interrupt this little spat for some information that may, in part explain Crosby's problems on Sunday.

Notebook: Crosby's accuracy goes slip-sliding away

By Rob Demovsky and Pete Dougherty
rdemovsk@greenbaypressgazette.com and pdougher@greenbaypressgazette.com

Rookie kicker Mason Crosby changed shoes twice before finding the right ones to combat the slippery turf at Lambeau Field on Sunday afternoon, but by that time, it was too late.

He already had missed two field goals and badly mis-hit one kickoff.

Crosby had problems with his footing during the Green Bay Packers' 17-14 win over the Washington Redskins. He changed to longer spikes early in the second half and did so again later in the half before getting comfortable. The poor footing was at least partially to blame for Crosby's missed field goals from 46 yards (wide left) and 38 yards (off the left upright).

"The surface started getting slick, and you have to try and keep your footing," Crosby said. "I thought I hit those balls well, but they just kind of drifted on me."

Crosby said without being sure of his footing, he didn't plant as firmly as he normally would.

"You don't attack it as much and some of that causes a problem," said Crosby, who made a 37-yard field goal in the third quarter. "You turn your hips before you swing the leg through, and I just had a little draw on them, so they drifted a little bit too much at the end."

Equipment manager Red Batty helped Crosby change to half-inch spikes after he slipped on a third-quarter kickoff, and Batty found a different shoe for Crosby.

"I thought the footing was good, but we've just got to wear the right shoes and wear the right cleats," special-teams coach Mike Stock said. "He came out and practiced before the second half. That's where you decide whether the footing is going to be OK with the shoes you have. When he came out, it appeared to be OK, but when he slipped on that approach, I said, 'You better change your shoes now.'"

Crosby missed only one field goal during his first five games.

[cpk1994]

It's intent was to ward of the usual "The Sky is falling" BS, just as it states. I would think that was obvious. Maybe I need to type it bigger and slower next time. Can you show me where it says that all other opinions are BS? It was an attempt to facilitate a reasonable discussion and avoid the usual bullshit that almost always ends up in the conversation. Now I see that no matter what is written, the bullshit will continue. Make sure you show me where I said all other opinions are bullshit to. Or do we need to continue this bullshit of <Insert words into my mouth>.?

OK, if you want to play that game, show me where I said that you called ALL other opinions "bs"? Did you not refer to opinions of others, (I guess for YOU to understand I should have written "SOME others") as "bs"?

I responded to your post with several legitimate opinions, as did all but one other post. Of 22 responses before your initial response, 21 discussed Crosby (not all seriously) and one criticized you. Yet you elected to rant and rave about that one other post..

Are most interested in acting like the persecuted maverick of the forum, or discussing Crosby?Go easy on him, It just his stupidity on Aaron Rodgers seems to have seeped onto Crosby.

[Merlin]

It's intent was to ward of the usual "The Sky is falling" BS, just as it states. I would think that was obvious. Maybe I need to type it bigger and slower next time. Can you show me where it says that all other opinions are BS? It was an attempt to facilitate a reasonable discussion and avoid the usual bullshit that almost always ends up in the conversation. Now I see that no matter what is written, the bullshit will continue. Make sure you show me where I said all other opinions are bullshit to. Or do we need to continue this bullshit of <Insert words into my mouth>.?

OK, if you want to play that game, show me where I said that you called ALL other opinions "bs"? Did you not refer to opinions of others, (I guess for YOU to understand I should have written "SOME others") as "bs"?

I responded to your post with several legitimate opinions, as did all but one other post. Of 22 responses before your initial response, 21 discussed Crosby (not all seriously) and one criticized you. Yet you elected to rant and rave about that one other post..

Are most interested in acting like the persecuted maverick of the forum, or discussing Crosby?

"Why in your first post, did you categorize contrary opinions as "bs" before anyone even responded? "

Sorry Mr semantic, "contrary", "all". I was addressing one specific opinion that is dismiss able on it's face.

And there was only one rant and rave about one specific post?

Really, there were at least three I addressed. Is your name eyeore? I know mine isn't. I don't give a rats ass what you or anyone else thinks about me. I do find it very entertaining to see how my words are twisted and the name calling just because I asked a question you didn't like. I get it, you have a hard on for Crosby.

[Partial]

So far Rayner is 8/10, and Crosby is 10/13. Not a huge difference. 80% versus 76%. Crosby will get his numbers back up, no need to worry.

[Merlin]

Does anyone else have the same concerns?

That is the question.

If anyone can show me where I said we should dump they guy, he sucks, and all of that, please feel free to show me.

Also, if anyone can show me where I deserved to be called a "clown" for stating my opinion I would like to see that to.

Like I have always said, when people don't read or don't have a valid argument, they resort to distorting what was written and name calling.

Of all the responses to your post, it appears all but one simply respectfully disagreed with your concern. I wouldn't worry too much about the one response.

That being said, your initial post didn't come right out and say it, but there was a confrontational overtone seemingly indicating a strongly negative feeling on your part about Crosby. It seemed more than just a "concern".

You wrote:


So far this season I am not convinced he was the one to keep. His first poor weather performance in Lambeau and he misses two of three. His kick offs were shaky as well. All I heard before the kicker decision was made is that he is a cold weather kicker and how much better then Rayner he is and that he was younger and youth is the better way to go. It wasn't proven in camp that he was the better kicker, it was a tie. His first cold weather game he chokes, and he is only a year younger then Rayner. So before I get all of the "sky is falling" bs from the people who support 3T and think we are all that and a bag of chips (basically those of you who like to take shit out of context), does anyone else have the same concerns?

He didn't look confident at all out there to me and that is a regression as far as I am concerned. I am not looking for anyone to jump off their bandwagon here but if your kicker in a close game at Lambeau in the weather chokes, that isn't a good thing.

So you are upset because one poster referred to you as a "clown"
But you pre-emptively categorized others opinions as "bs"?
I think you could have anticipated one or two strong reactions.

Personally, I think you over-reacted to one game. Maybe it will be a pattern and he will not be suited for GB. I won't be concerned until it is repeated.

Let's see where to start:

A) When you disagree with someone, call them a name. Don't back up your argument

B) I have already put your blanket "other opinions" are BS to rest because you can't read.

C) I over-reacted to one game. Yeah okay that's it. I asked a question because it was eerily familiar. Let me guess, after Rayner had a shitty game, your first reaction was "oh well". RIGHT. I am an over-reactor yet you are the one <Insert words into my mouth>. Seems to me you take yourself WAY too seriously.

Give me a break. You didn't like what I said, twisted it until it met your needs and posted inaccurate statements. I respond you continue the same false argument. Do you need a Kotex or something?

[Merlin]

It's intent was to ward of the usual "The Sky is falling" BS, just as it states. I would think that was obvious. Maybe I need to type it bigger and slower next time. Can you show me where it says that all other opinions are BS? It was an attempt to facilitate a reasonable discussion and avoid the usual bullshit that almost always ends up in the conversation. Now I see that no matter what is written, the bullshit will continue. Make sure you show me where I said all other opinions are bullshit to. Or do we need to continue this bullshit of <Insert words into my mouth>.?

OK, if you want to play that game, show me where I said that you called ALL other opinions "bs"? Did you not refer to opinions of others, (I guess for YOU to understand I should have written "SOME others") as "bs"?

I responded to your post with several legitimate opinions, as did all but one other post. Of 22 responses before your initial response, 21 discussed Crosby (not all seriously) and one criticized you. Yet you elected to rant and rave about that one other post..

Are most interested in acting like the persecuted maverick of the forum, or discussing Crosby?Go easy on him, It just his stupidity on Aaron Rodgers seems to have seeped onto Crosby.

Now it's my stupidity? Did your mother not breast feed you or something? Do you need a hug? Did someone not tell you that you were special growing up?
Interesting that I am the stupid clown who uses opinion and facts to back up arguments and all you can do is call me a name. So tell me, how does it feel to have no friends?

[Merlin]

So far Rayner is 8/10, and Crosby is 10/13. Not a huge difference. 80% versus 76%. Crosby will get his numbers back up, no need to worry.

It's funny, but I never even looked at what Rayner was doing. I am only concerned about how this looks eerily like last season in the kicking department. I too hope he works out. But then again, you know I said Crosby sucks, he should be cut and he is a horrible kicker. And you know, I based all of that off of one game too!

No wait, that's what I was told I said. And no not by you Partial.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Crosby is going to be a great kicker in this league...whether he struggles this year or not. His leg is powerful and his kicking stroke is picture perfect. It's compact and it's consistent.

[Partial]

I think Crosby is going to be a great kicker in this league...whether he struggles this year or not. His leg is powerful and his kicking stroke is picture perfect. It's compact and it's consistent.

2nded. He just looks like a natural

[Patler]

Does anyone else have the same concerns?

That is the question.

If anyone can show me where I said we should dump they guy, he sucks, and all of that, please feel free to show me.

Also, if anyone can show me where I deserved to be called a "clown" for stating my opinion I would like to see that to.

Like I have always said, when people don't read or don't have a valid argument, they resort to distorting what was written and name calling.

Of all the responses to your post, it appears all but one simply respectfully disagreed with your concern. I wouldn't worry too much about the one response.

That being said, your initial post didn't come right out and say it, but there was a confrontational overtone seemingly indicating a strongly negative feeling on your part about Crosby. It seemed more than just a "concern".

You wrote:


So far this season I am not convinced he was the one to keep. His first poor weather performance in Lambeau and he misses two of three. His kick offs were shaky as well. All I heard before the kicker decision was made is that he is a cold weather kicker and how much better then Rayner he is and that he was younger and youth is the better way to go. It wasn't proven in camp that he was the better kicker, it was a tie. His first cold weather game he chokes, and he is only a year younger then Rayner. So before I get all of the "sky is falling" bs from the people who support 3T and think we are all that and a bag of chips (basically those of you who like to take shit out of context), does anyone else have the same concerns?

He didn't look confident at all out there to me and that is a regression as far as I am concerned. I am not looking for anyone to jump off their bandwagon here but if your kicker in a close game at Lambeau in the weather chokes, that isn't a good thing.

So you are upset because one poster referred to you as a "clown"
But you pre-emptively categorized others opinions as "bs"?
I think you could have anticipated one or two strong reactions.

Personally, I think you over-reacted to one game. Maybe it will be a pattern and he will not be suited for GB. I won't be concerned until it is repeated.

Let's see where to start:

A) When you disagree with someone, call them a name. Don't back up your argument

B) I have already put your blanket "other opinions" are BS to rest because you can't read.

C) I over-reacted to one game. Yeah okay that's it. I asked a question because it was eerily familiar. Let me guess, after Rayner had a shitty game, your first reaction was "oh well". RIGHT. I am an over-reactor yet you are the one <Insert words into my mouth>. Seems to me you take yourself WAY too seriously.

Give me a break. You didn't like what I said, twisted it until it met your needs and posted inaccurate statements. I respond you continue the same false argument. Do you need a Kotex or something?

I believe you have me and my posts confused with someone else. Read my first response. I said I'm not concerned, but am not confident either, because kickers have to earn confidence by performance over time. I half agreed with your point, except I'm willing to let it play out over time without worrying about it.

1. When did I call you a name?
2. When have I not backed up my opinions with at least some reasoning?

Why do you make the above comments in a reply to my post?

Regarding your other remarks:

3. You have put nothing to bed regarding your FIRST post starting this thread in which you referenced at least some contrary opinions to come as "bs". You started this with a confrontational approach, which I completely ignored until you came back with the "Woe is me, I'm so persecuted" type of response, totally ignoring legitimate responses to your thread in favor of one (not me) who barked back at you.

4. Actually, I did not get overly concerned about Rayner's misses last year, nor am I overly concerned about Crosby's misses this year. I don't expect new kickers to come in and understand Lambeau as well as Longwell did before he left. Both are young kickers who I hope will get better. I would have been happy with either one of them.

5. I never questioned your right to start this thread. I think it is a good topic. I simply expressed MY opinion that I think your concern is an over-reaction at this point. Am I not allowed to disagree with you? Crosby was pretty darn good through the first 5 games, and until a trend is shown in bad weather I think it isn't something to worry about. You asked for opinions, all I did is give you mine.

6. Show me one twisted or false statement I made about your comments. If you do not see your initial post as being confrontational, I would suggest YOU are the one who needs to learn how to read your own writing. Incidentally, the ability to read and interpret your own writing in the way that others will, which may be entirely different than what you intended to convey, is a learned skill. Many arguments on bulletin boards are started because of a reader not interpreting a writing as the writer intended. It isn't always the readers fault. More often it is the writer's inability to capture accurately in written words the true thought he intends to convey. Might we have that problem here???

Now, how about commenting on my responses about Crosby, if that really is what you want to discuss. I raised all of these before I made any reference to your specific language about which you now seem so concerned:

1. Why do you think we should be concerned about this game, when Crosby has performed admirably in the first 5 games? (New comment - I am willing to give Crosby a "pass" for his first rainy game performance on the "plastic" enhanced sod of Lambeau. I am also willing to give Jones some leeway for learning a rookie lesson from the Bears last week.)

2. What about his style of kicking? I'm hopefully it will be a positive for him in bad weather.

3. Are you impressed with his hardnosed kick-coverage efforts? I am. (Better than the kickers who run to the sideline, although Longwell never ran away either.)

4. Weren't his misses "near misses", that if only a very small bit different would have eliminated any discussion at this point. ( New point of clarification - I see these different than a couple of Rayner's last year, which he missed very badly).

I will gladly discuss Crosby, if you really want to.

[Patler]

I think Crosby is going to be a great kicker in this league...whether he struggles this year or not. His leg is powerful and his kicking stroke is picture perfect. It's compact and it's consistent.

2nded. He just looks like a natural

What do the two of you think about Rayner compared to Crosby? I think Rayner will be a good, solid kicker, but never "one of the best".

I'm not exactly sure why I feel that way, probably because he really mis-hit several last year. at least one that was blocked if memory serves correctly, and one that was way, way left from the time it cleared the line of scrimmage. There just seemed something missing in consistency in the way he kicked.

[Partial]

Seems like he took a much longer, slower stroke had a lot less balance and body control while doing it.

Crosby just looks like a robot the way he kicks.

[HarveyWallbangers]

What do the two of you think about Rayner compared to Crosby? I think Rayner will be a good, solid kicker, but never "one of the best".

He has good potential. He could very well develop into a great kicker. The two things I like about him are his leg strength and his mentality. Last year, he had some games where he missed a kick, but came back and nailed a FG in tough conditions later. In the Minnesota game, there were terrible conditions and he missed two kicks early, but then he came back and kicked the game winner. That says a lot to me. However, he looks like he has a loose kicking stroke to me. He's inconsistent with it. Almost like he doesn't have a set routine. To me, he'll always struggle with consistency--unless he tightens that up.

[Carolina_Packer]

OK, now how about between Merlin and Patler? Who would be the better kicker? :-)

[Patler]

What do the two of you think about Rayner compared to Crosby? I think Rayner will be a good, solid kicker, but never "one of the best".

He has good potential. He could very well develop into a great kicker. The two things I like about him are his leg strength and his mentality. Last year, he had some games where he missed a kick, but came back and nailed a FG in tough conditions later. In the Minnesota game, there were terrible conditions and he missed two kicks early, but then he came back and kicked the game winner. That says a lot to me. However, he looks like he has a loose kicking stroke to me. He's inconsistent with it. Almost like he doesn't have a set routine. To me, he'll always struggle with consistency--unless he tightens that up.

I agree about Rayner's mental toughness. He showed it several times last year, including when he nailed two 50+ yarders at the end of the first half in one game, neither of which counted first because of a penalty on the defense that could not be declined, and the second due to a penalty on the Packers that ended the half. As I recall, the first was a new Packer record (or tied the recors) for length, and he still came back and nailed the second one immediately after the disappointment of the first kick not counting.

[Patler]

Seems like he took a much longer, slower stroke had a lot less balance and body control while doing it.

Crosby just looks like a robot the way he kicks.

That's why Longwell is good. Every time he kicks looks like every other time he kicks.

Did you see his game winner at Soldier Field yesterday? A new personal record for distance, and he did it outside in Chicago.

[cpk1994]

It's intent was to ward of the usual "The Sky is falling" BS, just as it states. I would think that was obvious. Maybe I need to type it bigger and slower next time. Can you show me where it says that all other opinions are BS? It was an attempt to facilitate a reasonable discussion and avoid the usual bullshit that almost always ends up in the conversation. Now I see that no matter what is written, the bullshit will continue. Make sure you show me where I said all other opinions are bullshit to. Or do we need to continue this bullshit of <Insert words into my mouth>.?

OK, if you want to play that game, show me where I said that you called ALL other opinions "bs"? Did you not refer to opinions of others, (I guess for YOU to understand I should have written "SOME others") as "bs"?

I responded to your post with several legitimate opinions, as did all but one other post. Of 22 responses before your initial response, 21 discussed Crosby (not all seriously) and one criticized you. Yet you elected to rant and rave about that one other post..

Are most interested in acting like the persecuted maverick of the forum, or discussing Crosby?Go easy on him, It just his stupidity on Aaron Rodgers seems to have seeped onto Crosby.

Now it's my stupidity? Did your mother not breast feed you or something? Do you need a hug? Did someone not tell you that you were special growing up?
Interesting that I am the stupid clown who uses opinion and facts to back up arguments and all you can do is call me a name. So tell me, how does it feel to have no friends?So you respond with chidish insults.Pot calling kettle..............

[Partial]

Seems like he took a much longer, slower stroke had a lot less balance and body control while doing it.

Crosby just looks like a robot the way he kicks.

That's why Longwell is good. Every time he kicks looks like every other time he kicks.

Did you see his game winner at Soldier Field yesterday? A new personal record for distance, and he did it outside in Chicago.

I did not see the kick, but I agree, Longwell looked equally consistent and that is a good thing for Crosby. If he can come close to Longwell's accuracy while keeping his stroke as powerful as it is, he could be a very special kicker.

[The Leaper]

It's funny, but I never even looked at what Rayner was doing. I am only concerned about how this looks eerily like last season in the kicking department.

How so? Rayner had some UGLY looking kicks last year. Crosby's weren't ugly on Sunday. He missed...every kicker has bad days. The ultimate test is how a kicker bounces back. Rayner couldn't get off the mat last year toward year end. Why not give Crosby a chance to do so?

[Zool]

It's funny, but I never even looked at what Rayner was doing. I am only concerned about how this looks eerily like last season in the kicking department.

How so? Rayner had some UGLY looking kicks last year. Crosby's weren't ugly on Sunday. He missed...every kicker has bad days. The ultimate test is how a kicker bounces back. Rayner couldn't get off the mat last year toward year end. Why not give Crosby a chance to do so?

Cause its more fun to play 'I told you so' on a message board and stir up the locals. Its flagrantly obvious to me now that Merlin specifically waits for anything to back up his position because he finds all this fun. Cant believe I didnt see it before.

[cpk1994]

It's funny, but I never even looked at what Rayner was doing. I am only concerned about how this looks eerily like last season in the kicking department.

How so? Rayner had some UGLY looking kicks last year. Crosby's weren't ugly on Sunday. He missed...every kicker has bad days. The ultimate test is how a kicker bounces back. Rayner couldn't get off the mat last year toward year end. Why not give Crosby a chance to do so?

Cause its more fun to play 'I told you so' on a message board and stir up the locals. Its flagrantly obvious to me now that Merlin specifically waits for anything to back up his position because he finds all this fun. Cant believe I didnt see it before.And becuase he failed so spectacularly with Arron Rodgers, he needed to find a new target, Crosby.

[Merlin]

So let me get this straight for future reference:

1) Don't be specific in what you say because people will take bits and pieces and roll it into their own off base agenda.

2) With that off base agenda they will insert words into your mouth and turn everything around so much that it doesn't make sense anymore.

3) Anything you say is a set up for "I told you so".

4) Never ask a question, only agree with everyone.

5) Accept the name calling because that's just what people do when they have no argument.

6) Never express concern with a rookie because they are untouchable.

Okay, have I got all of the rules down now?

I just have a small question, can we have some version of perestroika so we can move from socialism in here towards freedom of speech? I mean really, are peoples lives so lame that they have to make things up and call people names in order to feel better about their own lives?

Man, can anyone say OPRAH Show?

[Zool]

It's funny, but I never even looked at what Rayner was doing. I am only concerned about how this looks eerily like last season in the kicking department.

How so? Rayner had some UGLY looking kicks last year. Crosby's weren't ugly on Sunday. He missed...every kicker has bad days. The ultimate test is how a kicker bounces back. Rayner couldn't get off the mat last year toward year end. Why not give Crosby a chance to do so?

Cause its more fun to play 'I told you so' on a message board and stir up the locals. Its flagrantly obvious to me now that Merlin specifically waits for anything to back up his position because he finds all this fun. Cant believe I didnt see it before.And becuase he failed so spectacularly with Arron Rodgers, he needed to find a new target, Crosby.

Nah its not even about that. Its about the game.

[Merlin]

See #3 in my previous post. I will amend the rules so I have it straight.

[run pMc]

I know this is way off topic, but I recall reading an article (by Dr. Z of all people) where he actually said that most NFL players don't wear cups anymore because it affects their running too much. Apparently when someone "gets the wind knocked out of them", there's a reason why. Personally, I'm a little surprised by this -- I'd think with all the specialized equipment, they have SOMETHING to protect that area, if not a cup.

(pause)

So now I'm wondering why I wrote this, and if I actually want to submit this. LOL A need to share random trivia, I guess...I personally don't care if someone wears a cup, but I wouldn't want my junk getting punched by some punk on the DL.