Expiring Contracts and Guys Packers Need to Re-sign

[vince]

Here is the list of Packer players whose contracts expire at the end of this year. Three are potentially significant (in order) if they were to be lost, IMO...

1. Atari Bigby - the single most important individual to re-sign, IMO. Has unique playmaking abilities and has quickly emerged as a leader on this D. Adds significantly to the defense's character and production.

2. Donald Lee - having a top 10 TE season (on pace for 59 receptions and 720 yards). His production could easily accelerate due to Bubba's injury and the type of defense the Packers will be seeing more of... Nice YAC racker for a TE.

3. Corey Williams - strong and flexible contributor to the most important component of the D.

Also in their last year, but should be able to be re-signed for cheap or easily replaced IMO with existing depth, through draft or free agency:
Colin Cole, Vernand Morency, Frank Walker, Rob Davis, Tracey White, Ruvell Martin, John Kuhn, Ryan Grant, Tyson Walter, Torey Humphrey, Noah Herron, and Tony Palmer

[vince]

deleted double post...

[PlantPage55]

Corey Williams, I think, is long overdue.

There were apparently maturity issues with him, but all he has done so far is said all the right things in the media and makes plays EVERY game.

Unique plays.

[Scott Campbell]

Corey Williams, I think, is long overdue.

There were apparently maturity issues with him.......


What have you heard? I haven't heard much of anything on him.

[Pacopete4]

john jolly.. that dudes sick

[Him8123]

jolly is definitely having a great year. he has at least a couple block passes per game and a sack or two. great year for him.

[PlantPage55]

Corey Williams, I think, is long overdue.

There were apparently maturity issues with him.......


What have you heard? I haven't heard much of anything on him.

Oh, it's just rumors drudged up by the media with no real basis, I think. There were articles speculating that that was the reason we drafted Justin AND why we haven't resigned Corey to date.

I think it's all bullshit from our beat reporters - I've seen nothing but business from Corey Williams

[4and12to12and4]

Here is the list of Packer players whose contracts expire at the end of this year. Three are potentially significant (in order) if they were to be lost, IMO...

1. Atari Bigby - the single most important individual to re-sign, IMO. Has unique playmaking abilities and has quickly emerged as a leader on this D. Adds significantly to the defense's character and production.

Totally agree. He looks like he's gonna be a probowl player. And his position is difficult to come in and do well as a rookie. He still needs some work on his positioning, he's sometimes out of place, but, man can he hit.

2. Donald Lee - having a top 10 TE season (on pace for 59 receptions and 720 yards). His production could easily accelerate due to Bubba's injury and the type of defense the Packers will be seeing more of... Nice YAC racker for a TE.

3. Corey Williams - strong and flexible contributor to the most important component of the D.

Also in their last year, but should be able to be re-signed for cheap or easily replaced IMO with existing depth, through draft or free agency:
Colin Cole, Vernand Morency, Frank Walker, Rob Davis, Tracey White, Ruvell Martin, John Kuhn, Ryan Grant, Tyson Walter, Torey Humphrey, Noah Herron, and Tony Palmer

This is my only disagreement, I think we need to feed him the ball and get him much more involved, he is a true talent and has the ability to win the jump ball. Has good speed and seems to have a knack to get open. When JJ was out, he came in and did well. Very seldom drops the ball anymore, very good hands, and can adjust his route when the ball isn't thrown perfectly. I really like this guy.

[CaliforniaCheez]

I like Corey Williams. He has done much this season to raise the value of his next contract. He is not a 3-4 system guy.

However, Andrew Brandt and others will point to the budget and may say that
too much is being spent on the D-line. KGB, Kampmann, Jenkins, Picket, Harrell are all big dollar contracts. Will adding another be wise for the overall good of the team?

I have a suspicion that next year Harrell will replace Williams on the roster and Muir may replace Cole. Williams may command big money in the offseason. If his is not signed before the end of the season he is gone.

Hey, I don't like it but Ted is careful with money.

Bigby should get a contract as should Lee. Both can likely be Green Bay discount contracts. I don't see a player as good or better than Bigby being available at the same price.

With only Bubba and Donald on the roster, I don't see enough TE's coming in to replace one of them. Lee is cheaper than Bubba so even if enough good TE's come in Bubba would be cut first.

Bottom line I think Bigby and Lee can be done by the deadline this season with the cap money available from this season. Williams and Cole are gone.

[RashanGary]

BOLD - Must keep, mainstays for next year
NORMAL TEXT - Guys who should be around because they are showing signs
ITALICS - Hoping to find replacements or see big improvement

2 Mason Crosby K
4 Brett Favre QB (I think he's retiring)
9 Jon Ryan P
12 Aaron Rodgers QB
19 Shaun Bodiford WR
20 Atari Bigby S
21 Charles Woodson CB
24 Jarrett Bush CB
25 Ryan Grant RB
26 Charlie Peprah S
27 Will Blackmon CB
30 John Kuhn FB
31 Al Harris CB
32 Brandon Jackson RB
34 Vernand Morency RB
35 Korey Hall FB
36 Nick Collins S
37 Aaron Rouse S
38 Tramon Williams CB
41 Frank Walker CB
42 DeShawn Wynn RB
50 A.J. Hawk LB
51 Brady Poppinga LB
55 Desmond Bishop LB
56 Nick Barnett LB
57 Jason Hunter DE
59 Tracy White LB
60 Rob Davis LS
62 Junius Coston T/G
63 Scott Wells C
65 Mark Tauscher T
69 Orrin Thompson T
72 Jason Spitz G/C
73 Daryn Colledge G
74 Aaron Kampman DE
75 Tony Moll T
76 Chad Clifton T
77 Cullen Jenkins DE
78 Allen Barbre G
79 Ryan Pickett DT
80 Donald Driver WR
81 Koren Robinson WR
82 Ruvell Martin WR
85 Greg Jennings WR
86 Donald Lee TE
88 Bubba Franks TE
89 James Jones WR
90 Colin Cole DT
91 Justin Harrell DT
94 Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila DE
95 Daniel Muir DT
96 Michael Montgomery DE
97 Johnny Jolly DT
99 Corey Williams DT

[RashanGary]

I disagree that Willams is gone. Ted Thompson is a tightwad when it comes to players who are not worth their salary. Williams is a good player and doesn't look to have a through the roof type salary.

I would suspect that next years DT's are

Pickett/Harrell (hopefully 50/50 at NT) / Muir (in case of injury)
Jolly/Willims/Muir (in case of injury)

With Cole hitting the street. Cole is just the type of player you always want to replace (and we could get a pick for if he is signed by another team via compensatory slotting). Williams is a player that you are happy to have on the field. Muir seems like a guy that could be a gem. I'd rather keep Muir in hopes to be continually developing and replenishing the position instead of growing old with a low ceiling player like Cole.

[retailguy]

Here is the list of Packer players whose contracts expire at the end of this year. Three are potentially significant (in order) if they were to be lost, IMO...

1. Atari Bigby snip.

Do you suppose we could have him play just a few more than 6 games as a starter before we renegotiate/extend/resign him?

On that basis, we should have committed to Marcus Anderson for 15 years after his great rookie season. He kind of stunk after that, no?

[Merlin]

I wonder where all the people are that wanted Bigby cut after the first pre-season game? I think Bigby's contract should be looked at towards the 14th game if he continues to improve. Doing anything now before we know his longevity is premature.

I would be shocked if Favre retired. I think only an injury will keep him from coming back. Also, Harrell is not a a "guy who should be around" because he hasn't done a damn thing yet accept keep the bench warm. If anything, the Packers would do better to trade him for a high pick before someone realizes he was a mistake. Aaron Rodgers is anything but a "mainstay" unless no one else can hold a clipboard. We need to sign a viable QB to challenge Rodgers if Favre retires. Simply handing the team over to him because he rode the bench for 3 years is not a smart move. He hasn't shown that he can lead the team and his skills are questionable at best. Without allowing competition for the starting QB spot if and when Favre retires is bound for disaster. We already have no one challenging Rodgers and no one has been allowed to since he joined the team and that is unacceptable.

[Rastak]

I wonder where all the people are that wanted Bigby cut after the first pre-season game? I think Bigby's contract should be looked at towards the 14th game if he continues to improve. Doing anything now before we know his longevity is premature.

I would be shocked if Favre retired. I think only an injury will keep him from coming back. Also, Harrell is not a a "guy who should be around" because he hasn't done a damn thing yet accept keep the bench warm. If anything, the Packers would do better to trade him for a high pick before someone realizes he was a mistake. Aaron Rodgers is anything but a "mainstay" unless no one else can hold a clipboard. We need to sign a viable QB to challenge Rodgers if Favre retires. Simply handing the team over to him because he rode the bench for 3 years is not a smart move. He hasn't shown that he can lead the team and his skills are questionable at best. Without allowing competition for the starting QB spot if and when Favre retires is bound for disaster. We already have no one challenging Rodgers and no one has been allowed to since he joined the team and that is unacceptable.


So you think NFL GMs are all idiots?

[Patler]

Why do you want to replace Robb Davis???

[Patler]

Why do you want to replace Robb Davis???

[RashanGary]

Why do you want to replace Robb Davis???

He's 38. I just wonder how long the guy can play. I could be wrong, but there is something uneasy about relying on a 38 year old in a violent game like football.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Atari Bigby, Ryan Grant, and some of the other young players listed in the original post aren't UFAs after this season, are they? I didn't think they had enough years of service in the NFL to be UFAs.

[Joemailman]

Why do you want to replace Robb Davis???

He's 38. I just wonder how long the guy can play. I could be wrong, but there is something uneasy about relying on a 38 year old in a violent game like football.

Justin Harrell, meet Brett Favre. :wink:

[Joemailman]

Atari Bigby, Ryan Grant, and some of the other young players listed in the original post aren't UFAs after this season, are they? I didn't think they had enough years of service in the NFL to be UFAs.

I'm pretty sure you're right, although I'm not sure of the details regarding what happens if somebody else makes Bigby an offer. Where's Patler?


By the way, for anyone needing salary cap information:

http://www.packerchatters.com/team_info/salary_cap/

[vince]

Many of these young guys aren't unrestricted, but their contracts expire at the end of this year, so some decision needs to be made on each of them.

I'm not saying I'm advocating getting rid of the guys at the bottom. I'm just saying that I don't think they're terribly strategic components... I hope we re-sign a number of them, but they'll be able to be signed cheaply - if at all...

RG, Bigby must be re-upped after this year or he'll be let go. His contract expires. Your exaggeration of my opinion on Bigby by insinuating that I'd advocate resigning Marques Anderson for 15 years is not only ridiculously wrong, it's implication to my intelligence is extremely offensive.

The fact that a moderator would use such disparaging tactics through exaggeration, sarcasm and simply pulling shit out of your ass about another is a joke.

[Bretsky]

Why do you want to replace Robb Davis???

He's 38. I just wonder how long the guy can play. I could be wrong, but there is something uneasy about relying on a 38 year old in a violent game like football.

He's a long snapper, and still one of the best in the game; he's one of the few guys in the NFL who can consistently snap the laces where he wants most of the time. Some interesting past articles on him.

I could see him playing four more years.

[Patler]

Why do you want to replace Robb Davis???

He's 38. I just wonder how long the guy can play. I could be wrong, but there is something uneasy about relying on a 38 year old in a violent game like football.

He's a long snapper, and still one of the best in the game; he's one of the few guys in the NFL who can consistently snap the laces where he wants most of the time. Some interesting past articles on him.

I could see him playing four more years.

That, and they say his time in getting the ball back to the punter is still among the best. Supposedly he has one of the fastest times to the punter ever clocked. He's sort of the Brett Favre of long snappers!

[retailguy]

Many of these young guys aren't unrestricted, but their contracts expire at the end of this year, so some decision needs to be made on each of them.

I'm not saying I'm advocating getting rid of the guys at the bottom. I'm just saying that I don't think they're terribly strategic components... I hope we re-sign a number of them, but they'll be able to be signed cheaply - if at all...

RG, Bigby must be re-upped after this year or he'll be let go. His contract expires. Your exaggeration of my opinion on Bigby by insinuating that I'd advocate resigning Marques Anderson for 15 years is not only ridiculously wrong, it's implication to my intelligence is extremely offensive.

The fact that a moderator would use such disparaging tactics through exaggeration, sarcasm and simply pulling shit out of your ass about another is a joke.


Good one. You lost the "moral" right to complain after that hack job on Packnut a while back. Right back at ya.... If you can dish it, you can take it. Quit whining.

Bigby will undoubtedly be addressed at some point, but hey, lets just see how the season goes... kind of like Ted typically does, huh?

[vince]

OK RG. Works for me. My response to Packnut was a result of his initiating the attack. His "in your face" personal attacks on me and anyone who disagreed with his impulsive conclusions could only be dealt with one way. And unlike you, I responded with absolute facts about his posts - nothing less.

If you want to initiate that kind of banter between us by spewing lies, idiocy and sarcastic twists of logic, then that's your choice. You take board moderation to new lows RG.

[Bretsky]

Why do you want to replace Robb Davis???

He's 38. I just wonder how long the guy can play. I could be wrong, but there is something uneasy about relying on a 38 year old in a violent game like football.

He's a long snapper, and still one of the best in the game; he's one of the few guys in the NFL who can consistently snap the laces where he wants most of the time. Some interesting past articles on him.

I could see him playing four more years.

That, and they say his time in getting the ball back to the punter is still among the best. Supposedly he has one of the fastest times to the punter ever clocked. He's sort of the Brett Favre of long snappers!


Yes, we are lucky to have the guy. He never gets noticed; that's the best thing to say about snappers

[Patler]

One of the more interesting articles I read about him stated that since becoming a pro, he has never made a snap in practice without his shoulder pads on. He refuses to, because he doesn't ever want to alter the way he snaps at all, and he said his arm motion might be different without shoulder pads. He doesn't want to even experience what it might be like. When the rest of the team practices without pads, if they go to FGs or punts he puts his shoulder pads on.

That is a professional dedicated to his performance.

[retailguy]

OK RG. Works for me. My response to Packnut was a result of his initiating the attack. His "in your face" personal attacks on me and anyone who disagreed with his impulsive conclusions could only be dealt with one way. And unlike you, I responded with absolute facts about his posts - nothing less.

If you want to initiate that kind of banter between us by spewing lies, idiocy and sarcastic twists of logic, then that's your choice. You take board moderation to new lows RG.

What a joke. You really cannot see it can you? I thought you were just an ego maniac. I guess I was wrong. You're really clueless.

You talk about facts and it just slays me. They are only facts IF you adopt your belief system and opinions.

Explain this to me, o wise one - Why is it that when I talk about what I believe, I'm intolerant, unreasonable, and bring the board to new lows, and when you talk about what you believe, you are just "right"? Perhaps you should look at yourself for just a brief moment. You said earlier that you were "offended" by what I said. Why don't you PM Packnut and ask him what he thinks/feels about what you said? Maybe if you used the same rules to to others that you use for yourself, you'll find out that you are just as big of a hypocrite as those you engage with.

Now that you've established why I'm so unreasonable and intolerant, why don't you go back to the original point I made - tell me WHY after six games, Bigby should be the "most important" priority for resigning, and that it is "unreasonable" to wait longer than 6 games? If you can't handle me poking fun at your enthusiasm to "lock up" a guy who has had 6 good (not great) games, then overlook that I guess. You make it sound like he's the next coming of Christ, when in reality, he just replaced a boneheaded idiot who didn't play like he deserved to be on an NFL roster. Bigby is OK, but there is better, and I happen to believe more deserving players on the Packers for an extension/resigning.

I think my comparison to Marcus Anderson is spot on. That guy played lights out his rookie season and was an abject disaster after that. If you can't see that and look past an exaggeration, then friend, you've got other issues. Perhaps you should look at them, instead of preaching to me how I should act, talk and believe.

[retailguy]

As to the mod duties - you ought to see that you refuted your own point however I guess you're not that bright. Your assumption that my "job" is to get along with you and others is shortsighted. I have no agreement/expectation with MTP or ANYONE that I have to "bury" or "overlook" how I feel. Should I? Some say so, and some say no. Whatever.

You have no clue what we do here, and why we do it. Quite honestly, why I am a mod, and why I stay one, is because I don't want to read "viagra" ads everytime I turn around. That's my focus and always has been.

There has been what?, 2 people banned permanently since we've been here. It's not a focus. Me getting along with you, IS NOT A FOCUS. Me being "NICE" to you, IS NOT A FOCUS. Keeping spam out of here, keeping stuff in the correct forum so it's organized, and assisting MTP in keeping this thing up and running is what we all do.

you want to judge me? Fine. Go right ahead. Throwing my mod "duties" in my face just proves you are either stupid or desperate. It's just another "duck" and "dodge" vince.

Quite honestly, you aren't deserving of either the avatar or the name. The real vince is quite probably rolling over in his grave, that such an unarmed communicator is impersonating him.

[Guiness]

One of the more interesting articles I read about him stated that since becoming a pro, he has never made a snap in practice without his shoulder pads on. He refuses to, because he doesn't ever want to alter the way he snaps at all, and he said his arm motion might be different without shoulder pads. He doesn't want to even experience what it might be like. When the rest of the team practices without pads, if they go to FGs or punts he puts his shoulder pads on.

That is a professional dedicated to his performance.

He certainly is the consumate pro, and someone for the kids to look to for and example of how to behave. Plus, he's one of the two man Canadian contingent on the Pack!

Whenever his name comes up in a 'why do we have him' discussion, I have to post the link http://www.longsnap.com/

I'm guessing he has 'lost a step' though. For a couple of years he lead the team in ST tackles, and he doesn't anymore. I guess he doesn't get down the field as quickly?

Any idea who our backup LS is?

[vince]

You talk about facts and it just slays me. They are only facts IF you adopt your belief system and opinions.

Explain this to me, o wise one - Why is it that when I talk about what I believe, I'm intolerant, unreasonable, and bring the board to new lows, and when you talk about what you believe, you are just "right"?
Talk about what you believe all you want RG. It's not about belief systems or opinions. When I disagree iwth someone, I'll say so in a straightforward way.

What this is about is how you wrongly attack other peoples' intelligence through sarcasm, exaggeration and absurdity. Your statements about them are not only offensive, they're quite simply wrong.

And apparently, you should go back and read some of Packnut's attacks on others as well as my response to them. Not only were his attacks without merit (as yours is here) the majority of his assertions behind those attacks have been proven flat out wrong. Go back and read them. Here, I'll give you the link.

http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=170770&highlight=#170770


Now that you've established why I'm so unreasonable and intolerant, why don't you go back to the original point I made - tell me WHY after six games, Bigby should be the "most important" priority for resigning, and that it is "unreasonable" to wait longer than 6 games? If you can't handle me poking fun at your enthusiasm to "lock up" a guy who has had 6 good (not great) games, then overlook that I guess. You make it sound like he's the next coming of Christ, when in reality, he just replaced a boneheaded idiot who didn't play like he deserved to be on an NFL roster. Bigby is OK, but there is better, and I happen to believe more deserving players on the Packers for an extension/resigning.

I think my comparison to Marcus Anderson is spot on. That guy played lights out his rookie season and was an abject disaster after that. If you can't see that and look past an exaggeration, then friend, you've got other issues. Perhaps you should look at them, instead of preaching to me how I should act, talk and believe.Thanks for your concern RG, but I have no issues. Your mischaracterization of my position by insinuating that I'd advocate signing a flash in the pan for 15 years was wrong and offensive. If you believe others are more deserving to be re-signed, then say who they are. Don't make up shit about someone else's post as a dishonest attack. When you do that to me, I take issue with it. Pretty simple.

[Guiness]

Vince - don't feed the trolls. Please.

[Partial]

As to the mod duties - you ought to see that you refuted your own point however I guess you're not that bright. Your assumption that my "job" is to get along with you and others is shortsighted. I have no agreement/expectation with MTP or ANYONE that I have to "bury" or "overlook" how I feel. Should I? Some say so, and some say no. Whatever.

You have no clue what we do here, and why we do it. Quite honestly, why I am a mod, and why I stay one, is because I don't want to read "viagra" ads everytime I turn around. That's my focus and always has been.

There has been what?, 2 people banned permanently since we've been here. It's not a focus. Me getting along with you, IS NOT A FOCUS. Me being "NICE" to you, IS NOT A FOCUS. Keeping spam out of here, keeping stuff in the correct forum so it's organized, and assisting MTP in keeping this thing up and running is what we all do.

you want to judge me? Fine. Go right ahead. Throwing my mod "duties" in my face just proves you are either stupid or desperate. It's just another "duck" and "dodge" vince.

Quite honestly, you aren't deserving of either the avatar or the name. The real vince is quite probably rolling over in his grave, that such an unarmed communicator is impersonating him.

Man I completely agree w/ vince. I recommended you to MTP and you have been an ass. Bretsky doesn't fuel fires, MTP doesn't fuel fires, 007 doesn't fuel fires, etc. There is a right way and a wrong way to handle yourself. I'll leave it at that.

[Partial]

As to Bigby being resigned, I think he and Corey Williams should be the first priorities. Both will get pretty good money on the open market, and it would be best suited to pay them both. I wouldn't throw a ton at Bigby, but I would hope he would sign for slightly less by getting it in advance before an injury could ruin his shot at making the big bucks. I think he'll get slightly more than what Manual got from us, and thats fine. If he ends up being a career backup, then there isn't too much harm done in cutting him.

I say get 'em both done ASAP and give them generous bonuses out of the remainder of our cap this year.

[RashanGary]

Vince - don't feed the trolls. Please.

I second this. Don't let one guy get to you like that. It's just not worth it. You're a great poster here. A lot of people respect you (I've been told so in the sense that I should be more like you :) :) )

[GBRulz]

RG, remind me again how you ever got the name "kool-aid" rat?

[GBRulz]

Also in their last year, but should be able to be re-signed for cheap or easily replaced IMO with existing depth, through draft or free agency:
Colin Cole, Vernand Morency, Frank Walker, Rob Davis, Tracey White, Ruvell Martin, John Kuhn, Ryan Grant, Tyson Walter, Torey Humphrey, Noah Herron, and Tony Palmer

Of your list, I think (hope) we hang on to R Martin. That guy may have a small part in our offense, but all the guy does is catch everything thrown at him. I think he has some decent potential and would like to see him stick around.

[MJZiggy]

Also in their last year, but should be able to be re-signed for cheap or easily replaced IMO with existing depth, through draft or free agency:
Colin Cole, Vernand Morency, Frank Walker, Rob Davis, Tracey White, Ruvell Martin, John Kuhn, Ryan Grant, Tyson Walter, Torey Humphrey, Noah Herron, and Tony Palmer

Of your list, I think (hope) we hang on to R Martin. That guy may have a small part in our offense, but all the guy does is catch everything thrown at him. I think he has some decent potential and would like to see him stick around.

I can totally agree with that. He was one of the ones I was rooting for when we got him and I still am.

[RashanGary]

I'd rather have a #5 WR who can play ST's. Martin is a below average WR with no ST skills.

A #5 WR has to either have some upside that you like or play mad ST's. Martin does neither. I would guess this is his last year in GB because after Driver, Jennings, Jones and Robinson, I think it's going to be easy to find one guy better than Martin.

Ruvell Martin and Colin Cole are two guys that we appreciated after the likes of Cleditus Hunt and Antonio Chatman, but I think the Packers are really close to outgrowing below average talent like these two.

[vince]

While I think Bigby's the real deal and is having a Pro Bowl season thus far, and I think re-signing him should be a priority, he has basically no leverage. He's an exclusive rights free agent at the end of the year, so he either signs with the Packers or sits out. He can't shop his services until the end of his next contract. That said, I'd like to see him locked up for 3 or 4 years. I think he's the most assignment-sure, fundamentally sound, talented and forceful of all the safeties on the roster right now, and without him, there are alot more question marks back there than there are with him back there.

And Guiness, et al. your point is noted. Thanks for bringing this back on track.

[retailguy]

Well vince,

If he's exclusive rights, then why should he be top priority? If he's got no leverage, he's got no leverage...

Bigby has played well for SIX games. Anderson played well for an entire season in relief of someone being injured. At that point, he looked like a GREAT pick. Doesn't look so great now. I think Thompson needs to wait, use the exclusive rights tag to get another "basically trial deal" and THEN give him a long term "top priority" extension.

because, really, right now, Bigby could be exactly what you say Anderson was - a flash in the pan.

as to the whole packnut thing, I got it now. A "tit for a tat" is just fine, as long as you come down on the side of Vince's opinion. It's pretty clear... and pretty sad.

[RashanGary]

With that in mind, I would say let Bigby play this year and next year. He'll be an RFA after next year. That would be a good time to lock him up with a good, fair deal (similar to the way we dealt with Jenkins). There is really no benefit in ripping a player off by signing him too early. It just turns ugly eventually.

Corey Williams is going to be an UFA. The longer we wait, the more his price is going to be driven up. Might as well just get him now for a Jenkins type contract (if he's willing).

Donald Lee is another guy that would be nice to lock up a little early. He seems good enough to keep around.

[retailguy]

With that in mind, I would say let Bigby play this year and next year. He'll be an RFA after next year. That would be a good time to lock him up with a good, fair deal (similar to the way we dealt with Jenkins). There is really no benefit in ripping a player off by signing him too early. It just turns ugly eventually.



I can't believe I'm about to say this but - EXACTLY. Lock him up in 2009 when he's RFA and he's played lights out for two seasons.

Now that I've agreed with you, kiss your family because the earth is about to spin off it's axis. :wink:

Eerily, I even agree about signing too early. It does blow up in your face. There is no reason that the Packers can't pay fair market, for BOTH existing players and Free Agents. I happen to believe that Kampman is underpaid. The saving grace is, most likely, that guy is so much a consumate pro, he'll probably never bitch about it.

[RashanGary]

Just signing a good, fair restricted type deal is good enough. Restricted FA's will never get the kind of dough that unrestricted guys get, but it will be enough where it won't blow up like signing Bigby now likely would.

Barnett has a 6 year deal. In about 3 years, I have a feeling he's going to look incredibly cheap. Jenkins looks cheap already and so does Kamp. It's not so cheap that it's insulting though.

I like the way Thompson is doing things. It's just on the edge of insulting, and if it crosses the line he gets it fixed. NE has sort of balanced on that tight wire for the last few years. They always have a lot of underpaid guys. In order to have more talent with the same $$, you have to be getting a bargain somewhere. It just can't be so bad that it makes for uprisings.

[retailguy]

I like the way Thompson is doing things. It's just on the edge of insulting, and if it crosses the line he gets it fixed. NE has sort of balanced on that tight wire for the last few years. They always have a lot of underpaid guys. In order to have more talent with the same $$, you have to be getting a bargain somewhere. It just can't be so bad that it makes for uprisings.

Well, I agree that is what he appears to be doing, I'm not so sure I'm as "fond" of it as you are. I think that perspective affects you in Free Agency, and probably did this season.

I don't think he should give away the farm, but I think the "perspective" that he's being fair, and not cheap is important too. One day, and I thought that was THIS SEASON, we'll need a few UFA's and it'd be nice if they thought old Ted would be "more" than fair in negotiations.

[vince]

Signing exclusive rights FA's to longer than one-year deals is done all the time, particularly with draft picks. I never once said we should sign him this week, as has been wrongly asserted.

Things could change between now and the offseason when the issue will most likely come up. I don't think they will. We have much more to go on with Bigby than we do with a draft pick. In my opinion, he's a player, and I believe he'll continue to be a player.

Signing talented football players to multi-year deals is how you get value, and signing value is how you ultimately win Super Bowls.

Is it risky? All signings are. But it's better to be wrong with a young up-and-comer that you can sign cheap relative to his talent level than an old free agent that you overpay for even if he performs.

People who don't believe or understand what they see on the field might say it is risky, and why take the risk... People like Ted Thompson who know talent when they see it and understand that you trust your evaluations would say that's how you build a winning franchise. But GMs better be right more often than not, and eventually, they need to hit the jackpot.

I believe Bigby has the potential to be a stalwart contributor to a tough and physical defense that dictates games. That's what I see. There's no reason for me to believe he won't continue to display those skills, short of debilitating injury. He may never be Brett Favre or Reggie White, but he's got jackpot talent.

Bigby could be a flash in the pan. I don't think he will be. His game is very different than Marques Anderson's ever was - even when he had some picks and fumble recoveries that year.

Atari Bigby is fundamentally sound, a punishing tackler, has a nose for the ball, forces the action, and possesses the attitude, will, and intangibles that it takes to be a winner. Time will tell whether I'm right or wrong about that, and we'll see what Thompson's conclusions are most likely during next offseason.

[RashanGary]

Signing talented football players to multi-year deals is how you get value, and signing value is how you ultimately win Super Bowls.



I agree mostly.

You HAVE to get value or your roster will never be better than the next guy. If everyone is paying the same, nobody will be able to afford more talent than anyone else. It's a very simple concept that I'm amazed isn't more widely accepted.

However. The Packers have this year and next year before Bigby is even a restricted FA. If they sign him now, there is a risk that he's not as good as he looks. There is also a risk that he grossly outperforms his deal, at which point he'll get renegotiated anyway. There is no way to completely screw a player because they have just enough weight to make it ugly if you shaft them too bad. There is also something to be said for not treating guys like shit. Thompson has reupped a few guys (nothing over the top), but just enough to have a trusting, happy lockerroom. Shafting guys out of 20 million dollars because they were dumb enough to sign early brings more ugly than it does good IMO. PLayers do have some say and that kind of thing will make players just want to leave (the way Green did after getting shafted for years)

If they wait untill his restricted year, they should still be able to get him at a discount that is good for both the player and the team. Bigby won't get disgusting amounts of money as a restricted FA. He'll get good money, but nothing over the top unless we let him hit UFA.

My opinion of getting value is drafting well, using the fringe markets well, cutting losses early and making sure to use the RFA and "get mine slightly early" markets instead of the UFA market. The UFA market is doom unless it's used sparingly or timed perfectly. Screwing guys over also has a certain level of doom to it. AGain, slightly underpaying is OK. They know it's a buisness, but completely ripping them off (like Green) just makes guys want the quickest ticket out of town or worse, hold outs (which turns to lockerroom turmoil which turns to 2007 Bears).

[Patler]

Screwing guys over also has a certain level of doom to it. AGain, slightly underpaying is OK. They know it's a buisness, but completely ripping them off (like Green) just makes guys want the quickest ticket out of town or worse, hold outs (which turns to lockerroom turmoil which turns to 2007 Bears).

Are you suggesting the Packers treated Green unfairly?
Please explain what you mean.

[RashanGary]

For a 5 year span, I thought Green was maybe the top back in the league. He got 17.5 Mil over 5 years when guys like Favre were getting 10 mil per year.

[Patler]

For a 5 year span, I thought Green was maybe the top back in the league. He got 17.5 Mil over 5 years when guys like Favre were getting 10 mil per year.

Pay for QBs is a bit different than pay for RBs.

In 2002 Green was #13 in pay for RBs.
In 2003 he as #7 among RBs.
In 2004 he was #6 (behind only Faulk, James, Tomlinson, Lewis and Barber)
In 2005 he was #5 (Behind James, Tomlinson, Alexander and Rudi Johnson)

In 2006 they guaranteed about 1.5 and gave him the chance to earn about twice that with incentives. He ended up at about 2.3 coming back from an injury that many thought might be career ending. He tried to shop himself and no one was interested.

Maybe he was worth a little more than he got, but I think it is a huge stretch to suggest the Packers ripped him off.

[RashanGary]

In 2001 he was 27th. Over the course of that 5 year span (of his GB contract) (in which he was the most productive back in the league), his average salary was 11th best. Hardly worthy of his performance.

He ultiamtely got paid by Houston, but he was very close to finishing his career grossly underpaid in relation to RB's of his era. I would have left too, honestly.

[Patler]

In 2001 he was 27th. Over the course of that 5 year span (of his GB contract) (in which he was the most productive back in the league), his average salary was 11th best. Hardly worthy of his performance.

He ultiamtely got paid by Houston, but he was very close to finishing his career grossly underpaid in relation to RB's of his era. I would have left too, honestly.

In 2001 he was still playing under his rookie contract that he signed with Seattle. He did nothing in Seattle in 1998 and 1999 to deserve anything else. He had a nice year in 2000 in GB, but that certainly wasn't going to get him anything special in those days. Teams routinely made players play out their rookie deals. So of course he was a bit underpaid for his 2001 performance. He hadn't really earned anything more yet.

When he signed his GB contract prior to 2002, at the time it was a very good contract for a RB. It had a low first year cap value to help the Packers out, but when he was in the top 7 for all running backs for 3 consecutive years he was certainly treated fairly. And they were more than fair with him in 2006.

[RashanGary]

The 5 mil signing bonus on his 5 year deal came in the 2001 year. That was teh first year of his 5 year deal, 2005 being the last. 2006 was a one year deal and 2007 he was gone.

His average was 11th (over the 5 yr deal), far below how he performed.

[Patler]

The 5 mil signing bonus on his 5 year deal came in the 2001 year. That was teh first year of his 5 year deal, 2005 being the last. 2006 was a one year deal and 2007 he was gone.

His average was 11th (over the 5 yr deal), far below how he performed.

It was really only a four year deal. His salary in 2001 was his salary from his rookie contract, which still had a year to go. The Packer contract he signed added only four years to his existing contract. For those four additional years the Packers gave him 18 million dollars. He was given a $5 million signing bonus and a $1 million roster bonus the next year. That's not a bad deal for those times.

For several years Green was the third highest paid Packer behind only Favre and Sharper. Then he became the second highest paid. He was treated fairly. Not lavishly, but fairly.

[4and12to12and4]

He wasn't treated fairly because he was earning less than what he was accomplishing on the field his last two seasons before his injury and the year before his injury he was QUIETLY asking for a renogotiation and we blew him off, he subsequently got the major injury with no contract left, and was screwed. But, we should've already resigned him for at least three more years by then for approx. 15 million, to be fair to him before his injury as his contract was running out. We didn't and then paid him shit for a year making him prove he still had something left, and then Houston lost their minds. That part is not our fault, but, he should've already had a new contract two years prior. We did it for Al Harris. We didn't for Green or Javon. But they're both injured again anyways, right, so maybe TT knows what he's doing.

[MJZiggy]

Remember, we did it for Harris (and now Driver) a couple years LATER than Ahman's and Walker's situations. TT had not had much time on the job at that point and I think as he went along, he learned a lesson or two and a willingness to work on contracts as a reward for good performance and leadership is something he learned after these two situations occurred. You may want to criticize the initial moves, but at least give him credit for learning a better way to go about things.

[Patler]

He wasn't treated fairly because he was earning less than what he was accomplishing on the field his last two seasons before his injury and the year before his injury he was QUIETLY asking for a renogotiation and we blew him off, he subsequently got the major injury with no contract left, and was screwed. But, we should've already resigned him for at least three more years by then for approx. 15 million, to be fair to him before his injury as his contract was running out. We didn't and then paid him shit for a year making him prove he still had something left, and then Houston lost their minds. That part is not our fault, but, he should've already had a new contract two years prior. We did it for Al Harris. We didn't for Green or Javon. But they're both injured again anyways, right, so maybe TT knows what he's doing.

TT once said he looks at redoing a contract when top performers on the team are not in the top half of pay for players in their positions. Green was paid within the top 7 running backs for the last three years of his contract (#7, #6 and #5). In the second year of his Green Bay contract he was the 7th highest paid running back and went up each year after that. Why would or should the Packers redo that contract? It is hard to argue that most of the ones above him shouldn't have been. He was the 2nd or 3rd highest paid guy on the team during that time. What more should he have expected?

"paid him shit" for one year? You're kidding, right? The guy had an injury that no one knew if he could come back from or not. He tried to shop himself, and reportedly was told he would get a minimum wage contract, perhaps with incentives. The Packers offered him much more than that. So long as he got out of training camp, he was guaranteed $1.5 million, even if he blew-out the surgical repair in week 1. Plus, with incentives they gave him the chance to earn much more. I thought the Packer offer, under the circumstances, was very fair.

Running a football team is a business on a very fixed budget. Anything you give one player is taken away from another player. Through out much of Green's time the Packers were a decent team with other guys that deserved decent pay too. Not everyone can be the top paid at their position.

[Carolina_Packer]

It's a good/bad thing for a GM to not get caught up in sentimentality of previous years' service for a player with an expiring deal. Obviously if they still have it, then it's good to lock them up to a longer-term deal at somewhat of a discount with a little more guaranteed money for the player; win/win.

TT didn't get sentimental with Green, and I think that was a good move. I really enjoyed Ahman as a Packer and he did some incredible things, including being humble and low-key about his contract dealings. He was never a prima-donna, and if he was ever unhappy about his deal, he certainly handled it within his own camp, and that's commendable. Bully for him that he got the deal he did with the Texans. But, TT made a personnel decision that said Ahman was no longer in the core group of players that will make-up the highest percentage of player contacts. I think it was a wise move, going forward.

Green's situation was tricky. He was popular. He worked hard and did some great things for the team and handled himself well professionally. If he would have resigned him to the type of deal that Houston gave him, TT would be getting killed for the relative production we'd be getting from Green over the life of the contract (I'm predicting). He doesn't resign him and certain other people kill him for not having locked him up prior to his injury. Ah the life of a GM. It's not like he said, "Screw you, Ahman. Don't let the door hit you..." He placed a value on his services going forward, but it wasn't the stupid money he got from Houston. Again, good for Green and good for TT. Sometimes you have to part amicably.

[The Leaper]

In 2001 he was 27th. Over the course of that 5 year span (of his GB contract) (in which he was the most productive back in the league), his average salary was 11th best. Hardly worthy of his performance.

I think the questions over his ball security woes are what held back his salary numbers early in his career. He also decided to take the security of a 5 year deal over taking a chance on a shorter deal, and did so before he had proven himself as an elite RB.

I don't see how you can fault the Packers on this one. They gave a guy a deal before he was proven that ultimately made him one of the top 5 or 6 paid RBs in the league a few years down the road. Had Ahman been a free agent in 2004, he would've gotten the moon. That is just how it works in the NFL. To get paid at most positions, you have to be in the right place at the right time.

To blame his pay scale on the Packers is illogical IMO. Both sides worked out a fair deal at the time they made it, and both sides lived up to it. WTF are you whining about?

[Patler]

In 2001 he was 27th. Over the course of that 5 year span (of his GB contract) (in which he was the most productive back in the league), his average salary was 11th best. Hardly worthy of his performance.

I think the questions over his ball security woes are what held back his salary numbers early in his career. He also decided to take the security of a 5 year deal over taking a chance on a shorter deal, and did so before he had proven himself as an elite RB.

I don't see how you can fault the Packers on this one. They gave a guy a deal before he was proven that ultimately made him one of the top 5 or 6 paid RBs in the league a few years down the road. Had Ahman been a free agent in 2004, he would've gotten the moon. That is just how it works in the NFL. To get paid at most positions, you have to be in the right place at the right time.

To blame his pay scale on the Packers is illogical IMO. Both sides worked out a fair deal at the time they made it, and both sides lived up to it. WTF are you whining about?

All good points, Leaper. The comments and concerns at the time, as expressed in the Journal/Sentinel:


As nice as it is for the Packers to lock up a promising performer like Green, 24, there is still considerable risk in handing over a large amount of money to a guy who has been successful for just one season. The Packers had the luxury of waiting to see how Green performed this year before finalizing their strategy, but they chose to act now and purchase at a price they felt would ultimately go up.

The deal Green received doesn't match the seven-year, $41.25 million deal ($10 million signing bonus) Eddie George received from Tennessee last summer or the five-year, $32 million deal ($10.5 million signing bonus) Corey Dillon received from Cincinnati this spring.

But it does come close to the six-year, $25.5 million deal ($7 million signing bonus) Tiki Barber received from the New York Giants in March. Thus, it puts him in the upper tax bracket among NFL running backs.

The risk, of course, is that Green could become the fumbler he was in Seattle before Mike Holmgren jettisoned him to Green Bay in a one-sided trade for cornerback Fred Vinson. The Packers are betting on him holding onto the ball the way he did last season when he only fumbled six times (lost four) in 336 touches.

Green led the team in receptions with 76, but there are still doubts about whether he has the natural ability to be a consistent receiving threat. He must also prove he can carry the burden of being the lead man in the backfield, especially with Levens still around.