TARVARIS ERA ENDING QUICKLY?

[packers11]

PFT.com

POSTED 9:44 p.m. EDT, October 21, 2007

TARVARIS ERA ENDING QUICKLY?

The talk in league circles after yet another subpar performance from Vikings quarterback Tarvaris Jackson is that the franchise plans to target another starting quarterback for 2008.

Per a league source, the Vikings will explore all options -- unrestricted free agency, restricted free agency (Derek Anderson, for example), the draft (including a trade up), and the trade market.

Jackson has struggled badly, despite having a two-headed tailback tandem of Chester Taylor and Adrian Peterson, which should be creating opportunities for Jackson to find open receivers down the field.

Presumably, a dramatic turnaround from Tarvaris would alter those plans.

[b bulldog]

This is stating the obvious

[Carolina_Packer]

I posted this on another first page thread today...

OK, I'm not trying to defend Jackson, and I don't know much about his game. Here's some things I have noticed or are self-evident:

1. He's never started a full season and is very raw.
2. He is very athletic, and can pull the ball down and run, which he seems to probably more than the coaching staff wants him to.
3. He holds the ball too long and does not seem to have that clock in his head that they talk about, which means he takes sacks or throws under pressure too often.
4. As a result of number 3, he is not very accurate.
5. I wonder if Childress and Co. are playing to the kid's weakness instead of his strength. Seems like they have him throwing downfield quite a bit. You would think the longer the throw, the more time and accuracy one would need. Why not go with shorter routes. The WCO has a million wrinkles. Why not use shorter drops, and quicker pass plays? I think if they did that, they could even mix AP into the passing game more.

My point is, perhaps they are asking him to do too much at this point in his young career for as raw as he is. There must be throws this kid can make, plays this kid can execute, and obviously this offense should revolve around AP, but with enough efficient passing from Jackson.

What do other people notice?

[esoxx]

The only thing I notice is he sucks. :lol:

[Carolina_Packer]

But does he suck because of his lack of ability, or is he being put in a position that doesn't play to his abilities? If the coaching staff knows he can't make certain throws or run certain plays, then why call them. If that handcuffs you, then why play him at all when you have a serviceable guy in Holcombe? With that running game, you need not ask much of your QB, but do need to have somewhat of an efficient passing game. I wonder if Childress wants to run the passing game a certain way, but has not accepted the fact that he doesn't have the personnel to do what he wants.

BTW, who handles the personnel duties in MN? Childress? Wasn't TJ a 2nd rounder? Wow, if they had to give up on Jackson this soon, that would make Sherman look like a personnel genius.

[RashanGary]

This is stating the obvious

Yeah, we've been talking about this for a couple weeks.

I can't stand the Vikings, but with how great their defense, offensive line and Peterson are, I acctually feel bad for them having such a shit quarterback.

[b bulldog]

I don't because if they had a QB, they would kick our butts

[RashanGary]

I don't because if they had a QB, they would kick our butts

Yup. If they had a probowl QB, they'd be hands down best in the NFC. If they even had an average QB, they'd be tied with Dallas and us as the best.

[esoxx]

But does he suck because of his lack of ability, or is he being put in a position that doesn't play to his abilities? If the coaching staff knows he can't make certain throws or run certain plays, then why call them.
BTW, who handles the personnel duties in MN? Childress? Wasn't TJ a 2nd rounder?

He looks in over his head. He's indecisive as hell which is likely due to inexperience, but he's also horribly inaccurate. That speaks more to talent. I'm not sure what offense you can run with a QB that off the mark.

What I would do if I were Minnesota is play the veteran Holcombe while they still have a chance to make the playoffs in the watered down NFC. Then, if and when they fall out of it, put TJ back in for the end of the season and give him some more experience and a bit of an audition for '08.

Just b/c he's a 2nd round pick shouldn't matter. If you can't play, you can't play. There are plenty of busts in the 2nd round, 1st round as well. No team is immune. However, the problem comes trying to live with the mistake and trying to make that square peg fit in to that round hole. Especially at the QB position.

[run pMc]

I think MIN will preach patience with him for a few more games...he has less than 8 games starting exp. When you have Kelly Holcomb and Brooks Bollinger as your other QB's, you are probably willing to give the kid a chance. I don't think many people honestly expected MIN to set the world on fire offensively this year. Look at their WRs.
I do agree their run game and their run D are very good. But if you get a double digit lead on this team, they are sunk.
As for TJ, he has a big arm and decent mobility, but I wonder about his touch and accuracy. Plus, he's coming from Alabama State or some small school like that, so it's not like he has 30+ games of starting college experience in a major college conference. He's got potential, but I don't know if MIN will have the patience to see it thru.

Bad game vs. DAL by Ryan Cook...to think they essentially traded Culfumbler away for him...and then TJ turns in a 6-19 72yds performance. Ouch. Must be tough to be a Minny fan.

[Lurker64]

Whether or not he was a reach when initially drafted and without questioning whether or not he has the tools (both mental and physical) to play in this league, he certainly wasn't put in a position to exceed by Childress and co. He played division I-AA in college and didn't have the sort of numbers that make your eyes bug out (2,655 yards and 25 TDs his senior year, which was good but against I-AA competition.)

Given his background, even though it might have been forgivable to toss him into the starter position last year when it was determined that Brad Johnson wasn't the answer and the team wasn't going anywhere, but expecting him to be an NFL starter in his second year given his background was simply a bad decision.

I hate this about the NFL. QBs are drafted, expected to step in and make a difference right away without really being allowed to acclimate to the pro game, and when they inevitably struggle and fail, they're cast aside to try someone new. If the Tavarius Jackson era is over, I put the blame squarely on Childress and whoever's GMing that bunch across the Mississippi.

[Carolina_Packer]

2006 - Quarterbacks
Rd Sel # Player School Team
1 3 Vince Young Texas Tennessee Titans
1 10 Matt Leinart USC Arizona Cardinals
1 11 Jay Cutler Vanderbilt Denver Broncos
2 49 Kellen Clemens Oregon New York Jets
2 64 Tarvaris Jackson Alabama State Minnesota Vikings
3 81 Charlie Whitehurst Clemson San Diego Chargers
3 85 Brodie Croyle Alabama Kansas City Chiefs
5 148 Ingle Martin Furman Green Bay Packers
5 164 Omar Jacobs Bowling Green State Pittsburgh Steelers
6 194 Bruce Gradkowski Toledo Tampa Bay Buccaneers
7 223 D.J. Shockley Georgia Atlanta Falcons

No telling what any of those other available QB's could/would be doing for the Vikings right now. You miss on QB and can lose your job as GM, not that Jackson was their big investment. The fact is, they haven't really given QB the kind of attention it deserves. I'm not sure why they didn't bring Brad Johnson back for another go. Better the devil you know sometimes. He wasn't fantastic, but he also could have managed a game the Vikings would be a lot better off. I know he's stop-gap, but why let him walk if Jackson is still so raw? I don't get it. Then you draft another QB late in the draft who is a project and then have to bring in Holcombe very last minute. Seems like they are taking their chances with QB in MN.

[gbgary]

the vikes are toast for this year so they might as well leave him in there and just try to get better. they'll end the season looking forward to getting a good draft pick. if they take him out they'll just get the race card played against them so leave him in to sink or swim.

[Cheesehead Craig]

He's got a million dollar arm, but a 2 cent head. He's got no feel whatsoever for the QB position. His accuracy is a joke and as many others have said, he's completely over his head. All teams have to do is stack 8 in the box to beat MN now. Nobody respects Jackson or the Vikes WRs.

[Carolina_Packer]

I know the kid has enough to eat, but I feel bad for him professionally. He was drafted by a team that really had no plan at QB, so they had to throw him to the wolves before his time. Only the really special QB's can come in right away in their career and do well or OK. The others have to struggle and develop. He is obviously in the latter group. I'm not saying he would have ever been something, but if you crush a kid's confidence from the get go, who knows if he'll ever get his head back enough to give his natural abilities a chance. As an organization, if you are going to draft a developmental QB in the second round from a 1-AA school, you gotta have a stop-gap plan until he's ready. There were a few options for Childress and the Vikes, but they chose this route and are paying for it. Brad Johnson could have been brought back. Jeff Garcia could have been signed. I'm sure there were a few others. Why wait until the middle to end of training camp to sign Kelly Holcombe as a safety valve? With someone like Brad Johnson and Jeff Garcia with Jackson sitting behind them, learning for a couple of years, the Viking offense would have been in better hands. Then they could have featured AP and Taylor as a 1-2, and shown an efficient passing game that wasn't going to be a liability. If Childress doesn't get some improvement, he might be on a really short leash. If he was the GM (does anyone know?) then he basically fired himself by leaving so much to chance at QB. Gotta get that position right, obviously.

[Lurker64]

the vikes are toast for this year so they might as well leave him in there and just try to get better. they'll end the season looking forward to getting a good draft pick. if they take him out they'll just get the race card played against them so leave him in to sink or swim.

I'm not sure that "leaving in your young impressionable QB to get terrorized" is the best solution to the struggling of a young QB. He might well grow into a heck of a QB in 4 years or so if he doesn't have his confidence completely destroyed in his second season, who knows?

[HarveyWallbangers]

This is stating the obvious

Yeah, we've been talking about this for a couple weeks.

I can't stand the Vikings, but with how great their defense, offensive line and Peterson are, I acctually feel bad for them having such a shit quarterback.

I agree that having a good QB would do them wonders, but they don't have a great OL. Watch them play some time. They OL is average. Hutchinson and Birk are solid. McKinnie is average, and the right-side of their OL is below average. Their defense isn't great. They are good. If you can throw the ball, you can move the ball on them. Peterson is indeed great.

[cpk1994]

This is stating the obvious

Yeah, we've been talking about this for a couple weeks.

I can't stand the Vikings, but with how great their defense, offensive line and Peterson are, I acctually feel bad for them having such a shit quarterback.

I agree that having a good QB would do them wonders, but they don't have a great OL. Watch them play some time. They OL is average. Hutchinson and Birk are solid. McKinnie is average, and the right-side of their OL is below average. Their defense isn't great. They are good. If you can throw the ball, you can move the ball on them. Peterson is indeed great.

TO add to it, they spent $100 million on that OL and they can't pass block.

[Carolina_Packer]

They can't pass block or Jackson holds the ball too long, or both?

[Tarlam!]

Wrong thread...

[mngolf19]

If Jackson and the WR's were able to do anything, the blocking wouldn't be an issue. You get blitzed alot and have 8 guys in the box. That's alot to block. It is all right there for Jackson and the WR's to take advantage of, they just can't right now. I would start Jackson the rest of the season to see if he develops. You have to know before next offseason. If you think he can do it, then QB is not a hole to fill. If you don't, then you are drafting/FA a new QB. Along with bringing in more WR's next year. My expectations are limited for the season so just try to show something for next year. That's when the real pressure is on Childress, Jackson, etc.

[Zool]

Agreed. Its time to see if the kid is going to sink or swim.

He holds the ball way too long. And WTF was that weird jump yesterday? Looks to me like D's have no issue covering their pro-set at all with Williamson and Rice/Wade going out. They can commit to the run with 7 minimum and be comfortable about it..

Here's to hoping that Jackson never figures it out. :glug:

[mngolf19]

So who are the top QB's in the draft next year? :oops:

[Zool]

I bet you could place a call to Major Applewhite. He's probably not doing much.

[Lurker64]

So who are the top QB's in the draft next year? :oops:

André Woodson, Brian Brohm, and Matt Ryan in some order are probably first round picks next year. Someone might take a flyer on Colt Brennan with a late first, but he's a Hawaii QB and it's too early to tell how much of what he's done is based on the system and the competition. Also, we've all seen how the #2 QB drops in the first round over the past three years, I wouldn't expect the #4 QB to really stay up real high.

Ainge, Booty, Brennan, and Henne will probably all be there for a high second. The problem being that none of them are probably ready to step in right now, then again I'm not sure that anybody in this draft is ready to step in right now. Ryan maybe and Brohm if he gets drafted by Atlanta (which, in absence of information, seems probable).

[Carolina_Packer]

How about soon to be UFA's or RFA's ready to become starters? Anyone available?

[wpony]

in the old days they used to say it took 3 to 5 years to get a qb to be a truly top starting quality qb what ever happened to that true there are a few that can come righ in and start even brett took 2 to start but even his second yr he wasnt a top qb LOL alot better than travis but had a lot to learn

[HarveyWallbangers]

Brett made the Pro Bowl his first year in Green Bay in 1992 (64%, 3200 yards in 14 games, 18 TDs, 13 ints). He regressed his second year, and played horrible. His third year in Green Bay, he started playing at MVP level (62%, 3800 yards, 33 TDs, 14 ints). He won his first MVP in 1995 (63%, 4400 yards, 38 TDs, 13 ints). That was back when guys not named Dan Marino didn't put up numbers like that. Even that first year, you could see superstar potential in Favre. It was oozing out of him. He just made dumb mistakes.