The Second Coming of Dorsey Levens

[FritzDontBlitz]

They have been saying all along that Ryan Grant reminds them of Dorse the horse, so much so that its scary.

They were right.

I had picked Deshawn Wynn to be the every down back but after all his cramping up and now a shoulder injury its obvious he's not in proper physical shape. Denver's run defense is worst in the league but you still need a back that can last more than one quarter without pulling up lame.

I am therefore passing the torch to Grant. I just hope he doesnt fumble it.... :oops:

[Harlan Huckleby]

I had picked Deshawn Wynn to be the every down back but after all his cramping up and now a shoulder injury its obvious he's not in proper physical shape.

I bet the "shoulder" injury was a reaggravation of the neck injury from this past week. That was no giant collision he got hurt on.

And I also wonder if he is not in great shape. Or needs weight training.


Denver's run defense is worst in the league but you still need a back that can last more than one quarter without pulling up lame.

I am therefore passing the torch to Grant. I just hope he doesnt fumble it.... :oops:

I think the poll we've run several times predicting the break-out RB is instructive. Brandon JAckson was the OVERWHELMING choice early in season. Then Wynn was clear choice. Now everybody expects the world from Grant.

I will join you on the Grant bandwagon, but am not at all sure he will be the fan favorite in one month. Those running lanes were huge last night.

[Scott Campbell]

I will join you on the Grant bandwagon, but am not at all sure he will be the fan favorite in one month. Those running lanes were huge last night.

I don't think I saw what you saw. I saw small holes, and Grant hitting them really quickly. I also saw a guy that was getting yards after getting hit a couple of times.

[MJZiggy]

I like whoever M3 happens to be high on at the moment. So Grant it is.

[FritzDontBlitz]

I think the poll we've run several times predicting the break-out RB is instructive. Brandon JAckson was the OVERWHELMING choice early in season. Then Wynn was clear choice. Now everybody expects the world from Grant.

I will join you on the Grant bandwagon, but am not at all sure he will be the fan favorite in one month. Those running lanes were huge last night.

Agreed. But that game could serve as a confidence builder for the offensive linemen, Grant and maybe even the coaches themselves. You gotta admit, it looked good when it was clicking - and you gotta love the fact that it was done against the team synonymous with the phrase "zone blocking scheme."

Here's a thought: maybe TT should let other teams draft running backs, observe how they do in preseason, then either trade for his backfield or pluck them from the roster cuts based on what he's seen in them against NFL competition. Seems to be working well so far...

(By the way. I had to edit this to clarify who I was agreeing with.)

[Harlan Huckleby]

I like whoever M3 happens to be high on at the moment. So Grant it is.

I like whoever you like, Ziggy. So I'm a Grant man all the way. Well, all the way up to the time that you like somebody else better.

Mad was giving me shit last night about being a Wynner and not seeing Grant's greatness. I asked Mad what his Grant Fan credentials were, and he said with a straight keyboard, "I had him picked as second best."

When it comes to running back, we are all bandwagon jumpers. Except for JustinHarrell and 4thand12 who remain loyal to their man Jackson.

[MJZiggy]

In my own opinion, I do believe he was worth that 6th round pick.

[Scott Campbell]

The 6th round pick Ted gave up doesn't look to bad at the moment.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I like that they have four running backs. Those guys seem to get hurt all the time.

[Carolina_Packer]

I wonder if TT had any interest in Selvin Young, post draft last year. I'd take him over Jackson, and we could have had that second rounder for Moss, which still would have been a steal as it's turning out. Ah well.

[FritzDontBlitz]

I wonder if TT had any interest in Selvin Young, post draft last year. I'd take him over Jackson, and we could have had that second rounder for Moss, which still would have been a steal as it's turning out. Ah well.

I was raving about Young before the final cuts were announced. Shanahan wisely kept him as their 4th rb, maybe even their 5th. It should be obvious why he did.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think I was the first on the Ryan Grant bandwagon. It's been a roller-coaster, but the kid has a future in the NFL. He has size, some speed, he's decisive, and he looks like he has good hands.

[LL2]

In my own opinion, I do believe he was worth that 6th round pick.

Definitely worth a 6th rd pick. I sure hope one of the rb become THE GUY. The team needs that as it heads into the second half of the season.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I will join you on the Grant bandwagon, but am not at all sure he will be the fan favorite in one month. Those running lanes were huge last night.

I don't think I saw what you saw. I saw small holes, and Grant hitting them really quickly. I also saw a guy that was getting yards after getting hit a couple of times.
+1

He hit the holes with speed and authority. Very decisive and went pedal to the floor when he made his move. He's much quicker than I thought he was.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I've liked Grant since they picked him up. If McCarthy doesn't name him THE starting running back from here on out, I'll be disappointed. He runs with power like Levens but seems quicker and faster to me. Dorsey never fumbled, so hopefully Wynn will resemble Levens in that way too.

There was a reason Deshawn Wynn wasn't THE running back at Florida his last couple years. He had a reputation for dogging it and milking injuries. No surprise he's doing the same in Green Bay. He's another Najeh.

By the way, Selvin Young was on my draft board too, but I took him off. The guy had a serious injury at Texas Tech (?) which many scouts thought would dog him in his pro career. We'll see.

[Bub]

Grant did show something today, but I wouldn't be so quick to call him Dorsey. Denver did shut down the running game the second half, and we didn't score at all.

[MJZiggy]

Grant did show something today, but I wouldn't be so quick to call him Dorsey. Denver did shut down the running game the second half, and we didn't score at all.

They've been calling him that since he got here.

[Brohm]

I like how he delivers a blow. Lanes or no, just hit someone. Get that 1-2 minimum by smacking someone and falling forward. I know our OL has had some problems. Having a back that dances in the backfield accentuates it (unless it's Barry Sanders :shock: ).

That's what I liked about him last night, running room or not, someone was getting hit :D

[Bub]

Grant did show something today, but I wouldn't be so quick to call him Dorsey. Denver did shut down the running game the second half, and we didn't score at all.

They've been calling him that since he got here.

I don't care what they've been calling him, I just think calling an undrafted rookie who hasn't started a game Dorsey is a bit premature.

[Green Bud Packer]

how bout calling him John Dorsey til he gets a ring.

[mraynrand]

I wonder if Grant were wearing #42, would people be labeling him the next LeShon Johnson, instead of the next Dorsey Levens.

[Harlan Huckleby]

There was a reason Deshawn Wynn wasn't THE running back at Florida his last couple years. He had a reputation for dogging it and milking injuries. No surprise he's doing the same in Green Bay. He's another Najeh.

Najeh was not a guy who dogged it. He had a lot of injuries in Green Bay, so GB rolled the dice and let him go. Davenport has held-up well for Pittsburgh, he's having a solid career.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't care what they've been calling him, I just think calling an undrafted rookie who hasn't started a game Dorsey is a bit premature.

Dorsey Levens was a late pick as a FB. He didn't do much his first 2-3 years. Then, he blossomed. I see many of the same things I saw in Levens at a young age in Grant. Never too early to make a comparison. Levens was good, but we aren't comparing him to Gale Sayers.

[Bub]

Heck, lets call him Terrell Davis. A late pick, one cut, zone blocking back that delivered a blow.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I got a question for the growing Grant Gang:

If Grant is such an instinctive runner, why was Wynn ahead of Grant on the depth chart? McCArthy came out of the blue just a few days ago and said Wynn is the man.

Grant at least was in the NFL last year, when Wynn was a part time player in college. Wynn has been very unreliable, in a couple different ways, hardly a safety blanket guy for the coaches.

I'm NOT arguing that Wynn should be ahead of Grant on the depth chart. Just suggesting a little caution. Wynn had moments when he looked like a tiger. If you think Grant is significantly better than Wynn, keep in mind that the coaches saw something different. Why? Last night may not have been a good test.

[MJZiggy]

Wynn may look better than Grant when he's on the field, but Grant looks a helluva lot better when Wynn is on the sidelines nursing yet another injury...

[Harlan Huckleby]

Grant is the only running back of the four that hasn't had significant injury problems. OK, one point in his favor.

Of course its easier to stay healthy when you aren't playing.

[Zool]

I got a question for the growing Grant Gang:

If Grant is such an instinctive runner, why was Wynn ahead of Grant on the depth chart? McCArthy came out of the blue just a few days ago and said Wynn is the man.

Grant at least was in the NFL last year, when Wynn was a part time player in college. Wynn has been very unreliable, in a couple different ways, hardly a safety blanket guy for the coaches.

I'm NOT arguing that Wynn should be ahead of Grant on the depth chart. Just suggesting a little caution. Wynn had moments when he looked like a tiger. If you think Grant is significantly better than Wynn, keep in mind that the coaches saw something different. Why? Last night may not have been a good test.

This is based on pure conjecture but...

Grant wasnt in until after the final pre-season game so he had to learn the O.

Protecting Favre is job #1 with RB's here this season. Maybe Wynn is better at blitz pickup.

Maybe all things being equal they are neck and neck for talent, but they finally tired of Wynn being hurt/injured.

[Harlan Huckleby]

This is based on pure conjecture but...

Grant wasnt in until after the final pre-season game so he had to learn the O.

Protecting Favre is job #1 with RB's here this season. Maybe Wynn is better at blitz pickup.

Maybe all things being equal they are neck and neck for talent, but they finally tired of Wynn being hurt/injured.

I think this is about right.

I still say the running back derby isn't over.

[Green Bud Packer]

When we are talking Grant as a featured back I know things have to improve.

Running back is one area Thomps has failed. He'll just keep picking em til he hits it.

Thank God Ted wasn't able to run Favre outta town. :bs:

6-1

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't think Grant is a fluke. Now, our run blocking is poor enough that he'll have poor games, but he's looked better to me than any of our RBs. Wynn dances around too much and can't catch. He's not somebody you can count on to be there, game in and game out. Jackson can catch a bit and has shown some cutting ability in the open field, but he looks horribly indecisive. Morency has some nice qualities, but Grant looks a lot stronger and it appears that he can hold up better as a featured RB. That's not saying much, but I like the kid.

Grant was traded for at the end of preseason. More than anything else, I'm guessing that's why the other RBs were ahead of him. The fumble at Minnesota might have put him in the doghouse for awhile also.

The team is 6-1, and people still complain that every position on the team isn't stoked with studs. I'd say the rebuilding project is coming along rather nicely, and ahead of schedule.

[woodbuck27]

The 6th round pick Ted gave up doesn't look to bad at the moment.

Lets give that some more time but it sure appears that TT pulled one out of the hat in Ryan Grant. He had an impressive Pre-Season as well but was set in as the Giants #4 RB.

The Pack !

[woodbuck27]

I got a question for the growing Grant Gang:

If Grant is such an instinctive runner, why was Wynn ahead of Grant on the depth chart? McCArthy came out of the blue just a few days ago and said Wynn is the man.

Grant at least was in the NFL last year, when Wynn was a part time player in college. Wynn has been very unreliable, in a couple different ways, hardly a safety blanket guy for the coaches.

I'm NOT arguing that Wynn should be ahead of Grant on the depth chart. Just suggesting a little caution. Wynn had moments when he looked like a tiger. If you think Grant is significantly better than Wynn, keep in mind that the coaches saw something different. Why? Last night may not have been a good test.

I still like the Blue Collar guy Wynn but Grant came to us late and had to pick up a lot.

Maybe MM will ride him out there a lot more now so he will get some timing down.

Also, I felt at times our OL looked very solid but that was against a team that is sinking before it swims. Favre got good protection last night for a change. Was it the OL or a weak pass rush.

The loss of Henry,Walker and last night Lynch really helped us to that win.

[The Leaper]

If Grant is such an instinctive runner, why was Wynn ahead of Grant on the depth chart?

Grant did not go through training camp with the team, so he was behind the rest of the guys in terms of knowing the offense. Even if some of the other guys were hurt in camp, they still sat on the sidelines and watched the plays run. Grant came in with no knowledge whatsoever, and had little league experience to fall back on.

[FritzDontBlitz]

I wonder if Grant were wearing #42, would people be labeling him the next LeShon Johnson, instead of the next Dorsey Levens.

I think the reason they gave him #25 is because he reminded them so much of Dorsey. They were saying that after his first practice in a Packer uniform.

Wait a friggin minute.

Did I actually start a real live thread today?

heh. 8-)

[Bretsky]

I think I was the first on the Ryan Grant bandwagon. It's been a roller-coaster, but the kid has a future in the NFL. He has size, some speed, he's decisive, and he looks like he has good hands.

We just may have to fight for the patent on this one;
:duel:

I detested our RB's so much I was on his wagon the day TT made the trade.

I even praised TT.

And I did see a couple moves in his first game and jumped on right then

[FritzDontBlitz]

Just heard in another thread that Wynn was placed on IR today to make room for K-Rob.

I like the news, and Wynn was my sleeper pick of the 2007 draft....

[Harlan Huckleby]

Just heard in another thread that Wynn was placed on IR today to make room for K-Rob.

I like the news, and Wynn was my sleeper pick of the 2007 draft....

well, he'll have plenty of time for sleep now.

[BallHawk]

I think I was the first on the Ryan Grant bandwagon. It's been a roller-coaster, but the kid has a future in the NFL. He has size, some speed, he's decisive, and he looks like he has good hands.

We just may have to fight for the patent on this one;
:duel:

I detested our RB's so much I was on his wagon the day TT made the trade.

I even praised TT.

And I did see a couple moves in his first game and jumped on right then

Looking back at the threads, you, Harv, and ND72 look to of been the first to jump on the bandwagon.

[4and12to12and4]

I don't think Grant is a fluke. Now, our run blocking is poor enough that he'll have poor games, but he's looked better to me than any of our RBs. Wynn dances around too much and can't catch. He's not somebody you can count on to be there, game in and game out. Jackson can catch a bit and has shown some cutting ability in the open field, but he looks horribly indecisive. Morency has some nice qualities, but Grant looks a lot stronger and it appears that he can hold up better as a featured RB. That's not saying much, but I like the kid.

Grant was traded for at the end of preseason. More than anything else, I'm guessing that's why the other RBs were ahead of him. The fumble at Minnesota might have put him in the doghouse for awhile also.

The team is 6-1, and people still complain that every position on the team isn't stoked with studs. I'd say the rebuilding project is coming along rather nicely, and ahead of schedule.

OK, Jackson has shown some indecision, I'll give you that. EVERY rookie shows indecision. Is he Adrian Peterson? Doubtful. But, if given a chance, I think he will prove that his strength and cutting ability will make him the best back for us. Morency is a freakin' joke. If you breathe on him, he falls down. I don't even want him in the game unless he's blocking. Brandon, once he gets the feel for this offensive line scheme, will shine if he stays healthy. Grant just had a day in the sun like Herron did a couple times last year, that's all. Jackson's our man.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Grant just had a day in the sun like Herron did a couple times last year, that's all. Jackson's our man.

I agree that Grant proved no more yesterday than Herron did on occasion last year.

Its going to take a few more games.

[Bretsky]

I think I was the first on the Ryan Grant bandwagon. It's been a roller-coaster, but the kid has a future in the NFL. He has size, some speed, he's decisive, and he looks like he has good hands.

We just may have to fight for the patent on this one;
:duel:

I detested our RB's so much I was on his wagon the day TT made the trade.

I even praised TT.

And I did see a couple moves in his first game and jumped on right then

Looking back at the threads, you, Harv, and ND72 look to of been the first to jump on the bandwagon.

ND; who in the heck added ND into the party ? Harv and I are in the process of a marketing partnership focusing solely on Gang Grant. ND, well, we're greedy ones so he's not invited :lol:

[esoxx]

I think I was the first on the Ryan Grant bandwagon. It's been a roller-coaster, but the kid has a future in the NFL. He has size, some speed, he's decisive, and he looks like he has good hands.

We just may have to fight for the patent on this one;
:duel:

I detested our RB's so much I was on his wagon the day TT made the trade.

I even praised TT.

And I did see a couple moves in his first game and jumped on right then

You did praise the move but both you guys thought Jackson was the answer, then Grant. It's all in the "RB poll question" thread.

Meanwhile, I wrote:

"I have a gut feeling that Ryan Grant turns out to be the saving grace of the Packers run game this year.

Get ready to be pleasantly surprised."

Still, it's only one game and against the worst rated run defense in the league at that. Consistency is the key in this league. Wynn even looked good for a quarter against the Bears until he bruised his vagina. :lol:

[Maxie the Taxi]

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm going out on a limb...of the four mentioned I'm gonna say Grant, even though I've never seen him play.

Morency is a good back, but can't stay healthy.

Jackson is next best, but way, way too green.

Wynn has promise but he's got to prove he has heart and the right attitude.

Grant (according to everything I've heard and read) is smart, fast, big and a hardworking, solid character. Plus, if Edgar sees Dorsey in him, that's good enough for me.



I think this proves I was the first to have a good reason to jump on the Grant bandwagon. :wink:

[esoxx]

Yeah, so there. Me and Maxi are the real front runners here. We also are one of the few with an "x" in our name so we have to stick together.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Yeah, so there. Me and Maxi are the real front runners here. We also are one of the few with an "x" in our name so we have to stick together.

I'm with ya, esoxx. Now let's talk about our marketing ideas and a more creative name for the Grant gang. :)

[esoxx]

Yeah, so there. Me and Maxi are the real front runners here. We also are one of the few with an "x" in our name so we have to stick together.

I'm with ya, esoxx. Now let's talk about our marketing ideas and a more creative name for the Grant gang. :)

Agreed. The Grant Gang sounds like the Brady Bunch only not as fun and further down in the alphabet.

The General Grant's somethin' or others might do.

Grant's Gestapo could be offensive so need to stay away from that.

Ah hell The Ryan Grant Fan Club might be the ticket. I'm more old school, it may not be flashy but it's dependable and to the point. Much like his running style. :D

[Maxie the Taxi]

Yeah, so there. Me and Maxi are the real front runners here. We also are one of the few with an "x" in our name so we have to stick together.

I'm with ya, esoxx. Now let's talk about our marketing ideas and a more creative name for the Grant gang. :)

Agreed. The Grant Gang sounds like the Brady Bunch only not as fun and further down in the alphabet.

The General Grant's somethin' or others might do.

Grant's Gestapo could be offensive so need to stay away from that.

Ah hell The Ryan Grant Fan Club might be the ticket. I'm more old school, it may not be flashy but it's dependable and to the point. Much like his running style. :D

You got me with "old school." That's my middle name. "The Ryan Grant Fan Club" it is.

[Bretsky]

Yeah, so there. Me and Maxi are the real front runners here. We also are one of the few with an "x" in our name so we have to stick together.

I'm with ya, esoxx. Now let's talk about our marketing ideas and a more creative name for the Grant gang. :)

Agreed. The Grant Gang sounds like the Brady Bunch only not as fun and further down in the alphabet.

The General Grant's somethin' or others might do.

Grant's Gestapo could be offensive so need to stay away from that.

Ah hell The Ryan Grant Fan Club might be the ticket. I'm more old school, it may not be flashy but it's dependable and to the point. Much like his running style. :D

Are you guys reading challenged; it's "Gang Grant"

I'm suing your @sses :lol: :lol:

[FritzDontBlitz]

How about "Roster Grant?"

Yeah I know. Lame....

[Maxie the Taxi]

Yeah, so there. Me and Maxi are the real front runners here. We also are one of the few with an "x" in our name so we have to stick together.

I'm with ya, esoxx. Now let's talk about our marketing ideas and a more creative name for the Grant gang. :)

Agreed. The Grant Gang sounds like the Brady Bunch only not as fun and further down in the alphabet.

The General Grant's somethin' or others might do.

Grant's Gestapo could be offensive so need to stay away from that.

Ah hell The Ryan Grant Fan Club might be the ticket. I'm more old school, it may not be flashy but it's dependable and to the point. Much like his running style. :D

Are you guys reading challenged; it's "Gang Grant"

I'm suing your @sses :lol: :lol:

Next thing you're gonna tell me is that the guy's real name is Grant Ryan.

[Green Bud Packer]

The Grantastics

[MJZiggy]

I like it.

[FritzDontBlitz]

Yeah, so there. Me and Maxi are the real front runners here. We also are one of the few with an "x" in our name so we have to stick together.

I'm with ya, esoxx. Now let's talk about our marketing ideas and a more creative name for the Grant gang. :)

Agreed. The Grant Gang sounds like the Brady Bunch only not as fun and further down in the alphabet.

The General Grant's somethin' or others might do.

Grant's Gestapo could be offensive so need to stay away from that.

Ah hell The Ryan Grant Fan Club might be the ticket. I'm more old school, it may not be flashy but it's dependable and to the point. Much like his running style. :D

Are you guys reading challenged; it's "Gang Grant"

I'm suing your @sses :lol: :lol:

Next thing you're gonna tell me is that the guy's real name is Grant Ryan.

Just be glad his name isnt "Grant Goodeve."

Although, now that I think of it, "Grant Goodheave" would be a great name for a franchise QB.

or a bulimic male..... :mrgreen:

[RashanGary]

Grant seems OK. He doesn't have a lot of shake. I feel like Wynn (if healthy and with an off season of hard work) can be a better player. Wynn is a big back with good speed, good instincts and deceptive shake in once he gets in the secondary, allowing him to break big runs. I think Wynn is out of shape and his health is suffering because of it. IF, and this is a big if, he can put in a good year of hard work through this offseason and into next year, I think he can be a good running back; better than Grant. Grant can hit the hole and be a somewhat productive player, but I don't see him breaking big runs unless there is nobody in his way. He's just a straight ahead player with no wiggle. It works fine going through the hole, it just stops him from doing anything special. I like big, downhill guys who happen to also have just enough shake in the secondary to make one guy miss. I don't know if Grant has latter. Maybe he has the power to run through people and the balance to keep going. That works too. I just don't see a very good RB. I see a below average starter, but a good backup.


If we're hearing from McCarthy next off season about how Wynn is a different player and how hard he worked in the off season, I will jump on the Wynn band wagon. If not, I hope we find someone else.

[RashanGary]

Ideal for me is:

Wynn busts his hump and comes in looking like a re-encarnation of Frank Gore.

Jackson gains 5 lbs, weighing 210. He runs more down hill, only using his cutting in the secondary or in the flat. (the Packers use his skills to attack the edge and in the passing game)


Wynn (starter)
Grant (short yardage / any injury he starts)
Jackson (3rd down back)

The big IF here is Wynn having a great off season. I'll feel that out going into next years TC. If that doesn't happen, I think we're in big need of a RB still because Morency sucks and I don't like Jackson or Grant as the long term starter. Grant can get us through this year. I just hope we're not married to him.

[Bretsky]

Grant seems OK. He doesn't have a lot of shake. I feel like Wynn (if healthy and with an off season of hard work) can be a better player. Wynn is a big back with good speed, good instincts and deceptive shake in once he gets in the secondary, allowing him to break big runs. I think Wynn is out of shape and his health is suffering because of it. IF, and this is a big if, he can put in a good year of hard work through this offseason and into next year, I think he can be a good running back; better than Grant. Grant can hit the hole and be a somewhat productive player, but I don't see him breaking big runs unless there is nobody in his way. He's just a straight ahead player with no wiggle. It works fine going through the hole, it just stops him from doing anything special. I like big, downhill guys who happen to also have just enough shake in the secondary to make one guy miss. I don't know if Grant has latter. Maybe he has the power to run through people and the balance to keep going. That works too. I just don't see a very good RB. I see a below average starter, but a good backup.


If we're hearing from McCarthy next off season about how Wynn is a different player and how hard he worked in the off season, I will jump on the Wynn band wagon. If not, I hope we find someone else.


IMO Wynn is a head case with a bad attitude

That's probably why he never lived up to his bill at Florida and why GM's avoided him for six straight rounds

He's nobody I'd ever dream of counting on and I'd doubt he accomplishes much in GB

From what I've seen and heard of Grant he is the opposite; if our RB of the future is on this roster I think we saw him star Monday

[Bretsky]

If we're hearing from McCarthy next off season about how Wynn is a different player and how hard he worked in the off season, I will jump on the Wynn band wagon. If not, I hope we find someone else.


Remember one thing

Many in here believed MM on how Underwood was way ahead of his injury schedule and how he was working his arse off during the offseason. All that dribble is offseason coach talk. None of it is reliable. I think Wynn will have to come back a different person to really make it.

[RashanGary]

I never had the impression Underwood was one of those guys who was doing great. Harvey thought so, but he wasn't one of the guys MM went out of his way to hype up. I think a couple people here made that up. MM was asked directly a couple times about Underwood to my recollection and he said he's doing good (he says that about any player if asked). MM went out of his way to praise others when asked "who" is doing best.

Donald Lee and Vernand Morency were the two big ones. Morency is just a bad runner, and Lee has made big gains. Moll, Spitz and Colledge also made pretty big gains from what I understand and based on the pass pro, it really paid off. I blame the run game more on the RB's, playcalling and coaching instability.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think Wynn will have to come back a different person to really make it.

Nobody here knows what kind of person Wynn is.

[BallHawk]

The Grant Plant?

If Grant can't nobody Can?

[Joemailman]

I've liked Grant since they picked him up. If McCarthy doesn't name him THE starting running back from here on out, I'll be disappointed. He runs with power like Levens but seems quicker and faster to me.

MM said in his press conference last night that it's safe to assume that Grant will be the starter next week. It's his job to lose.

[RashanGary]

"That was probably about as big a decision that was made all night, Greg Jennings calling heads on the coin toss," McCarthy said. "I think you should go tails, and he told me he was going heads, and I'm glad I didn't say what I wanted to say."

This isn't the place for this, but it's pretty funny. MM and GJ fighting over heads or tails. I like how MM let's the players be themselves. He seems like a big softy to me. Everyone loves him, even introverts like Woodson.

[MJZiggy]

Softy? You obviously missed the training camp report on him.

[RashanGary]

"I think he has a very bright future," McCarthy said. "It's unfortunate that he has to go down on IR, but we're excited about DeShawn's future here. Because he has all the ability. He can be as good as he wants to be."


IF Wynn works hard, I have a feeling he'll be serving up a lot of crow next year. He is a very talented player. He's big, fast, strong (and has room to get bigger faster and stronger). For how big he is, he has really good moves. I hate to borrow McCarthy's comments, but he has very quick feet, esspcially for a big guy. He goes down hill, but he can avoid tacklers in the open field too. He has everything you look for and a very high ceiling.

I'm reserving the right to jump off the wagon if he has a bad off season, but IF he has a good off season, I think this guy can be a 1,000 yard back.

[b bulldog]

Big guy with good feet but no heart

[Harlan Huckleby]

Big guy with good feet but no heart

how do you know he has no heart?

did he have some injuries that he should have played with?

[Bretsky]

I think Wynn will have to come back a different person to really make it.

Nobody here knows what kind of person Wynn is.


Nope we don't

But we know he was a huge underachiever at Florida and fell out of favor with the staff

We know he had very good talent and for some reason he went undrafted for six rounds when talent wise he was suppose to be much better

We know MM made references about him needing to play through the niks and bruises

You do the Math
:wink:

[Bretsky]

I never had the impression Underwood was one of those guys who was doing great. Harvey thought so, but he wasn't one of the guys MM went out of his way to hype up. I think a couple people here made that up. MM was asked directly a couple times about Underwood to my recollection and he said he's doing good (he says that about any player if asked). MM went out of his way to praise others when asked "who" is doing best.

Donald Lee and Vernand Morency were the two big ones. Morency is just a bad runner, and Lee has made big gains. Moll, Spitz and Colledge also made pretty big gains from what I understand and based on the pass pro, it really paid off. I blame the run game more on the RB's, playcalling and coaching instability.

Playcalling and RB's have to chance when the DL is in the backfield before the RB hits stride. That's the OL. That's what has occured too much this year. And with average at best RB's they don't make the OL look better than they are either

We saw hope against Denver, but they also have the worst run D in the NFL
Hopefully we see some more good blocking against decent run defenses as well.

[Partial]

I never had the impression Underwood was one of those guys who was doing great. Harvey thought so, but he wasn't one of the guys MM went out of his way to hype up. I think a couple people here made that up. MM was asked directly a couple times about Underwood to my recollection and he said he's doing good (he says that about any player if asked). MM went out of his way to praise others when asked "who" is doing best.

Donald Lee and Vernand Morency were the two big ones. Morency is just a bad runner, and Lee has made big gains. Moll, Spitz and Colledge also made pretty big gains from what I understand and based on the pass pro, it really paid off. I blame the run game more on the RB's, playcalling and coaching instability.

I disagree with every sentiment in this post. Every single one. Morency is not as good as I had hoped, but I am also not convinced he is healthy. He is there best big play back and will definitely have a roster spot next year.

Most teams have a blend of players that excel at both run and pass blocking, or one or the other. We seem to be pass blocking heavy. I'm not convinced we'd be rushing for 100 yds/game w/ LT and Turner as our #1 and #2.


Bretsky, to be fair, Meyer still doesn't use a running back even without Wynn. That team clearly has talent at every position. I think its more of a system thing than a lack of talent thing. I went back and looked up 2004 in Utah, where he had 3 guys very close in rushing with 600 yards. Alex Smith was one of them. My guess is with the weak defenses of whatever conference Utah is in they could use a back more effectively while keeping the mobile QB offense in use.

[Harlan Huckleby]

But we know he was a huge underachiever at Florida and fell out of favor with the staff

We know he had very good talent and for some reason he went undrafted for six rounds when talent wise he was suppose to be much better

I don't care. IF he is not progressing here in GB, then he's a problem.

Coaches seemed satisfied with him. They could have EASILY moved Grant ahead of him at the bye week if he was not performing.


We know MM made references about him needing to play through the niks and bruises

Maybe he said this. Most of the "quotes" I've seen have been people making stuff up.

The fans LOVE to have a player they can call a pussy, it is fun. Barnett has been called a pussy. Clifton. Sharper. Often defensive backs like T-Buck. It's just a lot of nonsense that takes on a life of its own.

[The Shadow]

I was very impressed with Grant.
Wynn? Can't win a job in the training room.

[RashanGary]

Playcalling and RB's have to chance when the DL is in the backfield before the RB hits stride. That's the OL. That's what has occured too much this year. And with average at best RB's they don't make the OL look better than they are either
.

Coaching tells OG's to let a guy go and get to the 2nd level. If you rewatch those plays, Colledge let his guy go on purpose and went right to the LB. It could be colledge, but I find it funny that he didn't do that last year, but now with Jags gone he is all of a sudden just letting guys run free. That is coaching IMO. Last year the got rag-dolled and beat physically. That was teh lineman for sure. This year the regressed in their assignments and I blame that on the only thing that changed; the coaching.

[RashanGary]

For as bad as Harry Sydney is at projecting college talent and predicting the future, he is a pretty good evaluator of RB's.

L. Syd says Morency cuts on the wrong foot all of the time and can't stay on his feet. I started looking for it, and low and behold, the guy trips over his own feet, trying to cut off his inside foot all of the time.

You don't teach a guy how not to trip over his feet at age 27. You either have that skill or you don't. So much of skill in football or basketball or any sport is natural. Look at that little kid (cody paul on youtube). You telling me some coach taught him all of his moves? The kid knows how to keep his feet under himself. Nobody taught him how not to trip over his feet when he cut, he just sort of knew how as a small kid. Jennings and Jones are natural WR's. Wynn is a natural runner IMO. Morency is a stumble bum who trips over his feet. He's gone.

[Bretsky]

But we know he was a huge underachiever at Florida and fell out of favor with the staff

We know he had very good talent and for some reason he went undrafted for six rounds when talent wise he was suppose to be much better

I don't care. IF he is not progressing here in GB, then he's a problem.

Coaches seemed satisfied with him. They could have EASILY moved Grant ahead of him at the bye week if he was not performing.


We know MM made references about him needing to play through the niks and bruises

Maybe he said this. Most of the "quotes" I've seen have been people making stuff up.

The fans LOVE to have a player they can call a pussy, it is fun. Barnett has been called a pussy. Clifton. Sharper. Often defensive backs like T-Buck. It's just a lot of nonsense that takes on a life of its own.


Hey, you were the one that said nobody knows what kind of person Wynn is.
So I give you facts, and then you don't care. Flippin apologist :lol: :lol:

[Bretsky]

Playcalling and RB's have to chance when the DL is in the backfield before the RB hits stride. That's the OL. That's what has occured too much this year. And with average at best RB's they don't make the OL look better than they are either
.

Coaching tells OG's to let a guy go and get to the 2nd level. If you rewatch those plays, Colledge let his guy go on purpose and went right to the LB. It could be colledge, but I find it funny that he didn't do that last year, but now with Jags gone he is all of a sudden just letting guys run free. That is coaching IMO. Last year the got rag-dolled and beat physically. That was teh lineman for sure. This year the regressed in their assignments and I blame that on the only thing that changed; the coaching.


I see it both ways

OL is not good enough to make the below average RB's look better
and
RB's are not good enough to make a below average run blocking OL look better

DANG, if we could just play Denver every week :!:

[Harlan Huckleby]

Morency is a stumble bum who trips over his feet. He's gone.

Unfortunately he's not gone, he's a key cog in the wheel.

I think people should be worried that Wynn went down. As bad as Morency may be, Jackson has been unable to unseat him. That ain't good.

[Bretsky]

Morency is a stumble bum who trips over his feet. He's gone.

Unfortunately he's not gone, he's a key cog in the wheel.

I think people should be worried that Wynn went down. As bad as Morency may be, Jackson has been unable to unseat him. That ain't good.


Jackson has been a disappointment. At first I didn't like the draft pick, but with my dislike for Morency I convinced myself he had to be the man and TT would not have used a #2 unless he was the real deal

As for Wynn, He is what I thought he was........lol..lil Denny Green Stuff there

[Zool]

I swear HH is related to Wynn or something.

[Joemailman]

Wynn and Justin Harrell are 2 rookies who came to camp in less than great shape and have paid the price. MM is very big on off-season conditioning. We'll find out a lot about their attitudes by what kind of shape they show up in next spring.

[RashanGary]

Wynn and Justin Harrell are 2 rookies who came to camp in less than great shape and have paid the price. MM is very big on off-season conditioning. We'll find out a lot about their attitudes by what kind of shape they show up in next spring.

I agree. Some college guys are ready. Some take a year or two to really turn it on.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Hey, you were the one that said nobody knows what kind of person Wynn is.
So I give you facts, and then you don't care. Flippin apologist :lol: :lol:

I accept Wynn was a risk. ANY 7th rounder is a long shot. I just give players a clean slate. The only facts I care about are how he does in GB.

Davenport was a dissappointment in GB. Pittsburgh didn't hold that against him, and it worked out.

Wynn could be a nogoodnick. I still havn't seen anything that leads me to believe that Wynn won't be a player. I trust the coaches judgement first on questions of attitude, they are close to the situation. Actions speak louder than words/rumors, and the coaches kept him as a starter. If the coaches cut him next year, then you were right.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Wynn and Justin Harrell are 2 rookies who came to camp in less than great shape and have paid the price.

this is likely true.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Wynn will have to come back a different person to really make it.

Nobody here knows what kind of person Wynn is.

His college coaches didn't think much of him. Basically, the negatives about him in college have stayed with him in the pros. Get over it, Harlan.

[Harlan Huckleby]

His college coaches didn't think much of him. Basically, the negatives about him in college have stayed with him in the pros. Get over it, Harlan.

What negatives?

Why did the coaches move him ahead of the other three guys if he was a bum?

This is speculation.

[Bretsky]

His college coaches didn't think much of him. Basically, the negatives about him in college have stayed with him in the pros. Get over it, Harlan.

What negatives?

Why did the coaches move him ahead of the other three guys if he was a bum?

This is speculation.


Out of curiosity, how closely did you follow Wynn's career for the Gators ?? Of course no facts are ever facts because we don't know for 100% why he fell out of favor; but.........Sometimes I wonder if you are arguing just to argue.

[Carolina_Packer]

This is based on pure conjecture but...

Grant wasnt in until after the final pre-season game so he had to learn the O.

Protecting Favre is job #1 with RB's here this season. Maybe Wynn is better at blitz pickup.

Maybe all things being equal they are neck and neck for talent, but they finally tired of Wynn being hurt/injured.

I think this is about right.

I still say the running back derby isn't over.

To your points here about Wynn vs. Grant...I heard MM during his post game presser say that Grant was on their minds and they had confidence in him, he just came in a little later in the process and has had to play catch-up. I'd be ecstatic if Grant would just take that thing and run with it. Wynn can get some carries to spell Grant and Morency can get some third down plays; kinda like when we had Ahman as our primary (Grant), Najeh as our short-yardage/spell Ahman guy (Wynn) and Fisher (Morency) as our third down back. OK, Grant is not Green, but he could be a diamond in the rough. I don't know where that leaves our 2nd round pick Jackson.

[Patler]

From a pre-draft scouting report on Wynn:



Is thought to be as a third-round talent but a questionable pick at that round because of inconsistent play and practice habits and a chronic shoulder problem.

[Bretsky]

From a pre-draft scouting report on Wynn:



Is thought to be as a third-round talent but a questionable pick at that round because of inconsistent play and practice habits and a chronic shoulder problem.


Gosh, I've been waiting for you to show up and come up with some of the facts for me :lol: :lol:

[HarveyWallbangers]

His college coaches didn't think much of him. Basically, the negatives about him in college have stayed with him in the pros. Get over it, Harlan.

What negatives?

Why did the coaches move him ahead of the other three guys if he was a bum?

This is speculation.

Negatives? Basically, he's soft and he had numerous incidents at Florida. Nothing criminal, but a primadonna that gave them problems numerous times.

Morency got hurt. Jackson sucked. Grant didn't get acquired until after the preseason. Not hard to figure out.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Weaknesses: According to Pro Football Weekly scouting reports: Runs almost like he's afraid. Plays too soft and tends to bounce everything outside. Goes down far too easily on contact. Should break more tackles. Makes himself small instead of dropping his shoulder. Hears footsteps. Not tough mentally or physically. Often lands in the doghouse. Textbook underachiever.

Noteworthy: Was suspended for 2005 opener at Florida for a team rules violation involving a parking decal. Has had other character issues, but running backs coach Edgar Bennett said Wynn has the right frame of mind.

[Patler]

Another pre-draft report:


Wynn's biggest issue is a perceived lack of intensity and work ethic, and that seems to limit his upside. He certainly has the talent to be a good NFL tailback, but needs to prove he's committed to making it happen

His suspension:


Suspended by coach Urban Meyer for the '06 opener for what Wynn described as "a little parking decal incident." . . .

The Florida's coaching staff feelings, per JSO:


DeShawn Wynn was the leading rusher for the national champion Florida Gators in 2006. He's a big, strong, gifted player who can play both running back and fullback.

But make no mistake about it, no one at Florida was sad to see Wynn go.

A headache from the day he walked onto the Gainesville campus, Wynn constantly pushed the envelope. And he repeatedly raised the blood pressure of his coaches.

In 2005, Urban Meyer's first season as the Gators' boss, the coaches were looking for Wynn to run a play during spring drills. Wynn didn't exactly endear himself to his new staff, though, when they saw him standing on the sideline, talking on his cell phone.

[Patler]

From a pre-draft scouting report on Wynn:



Is thought to be as a third-round talent but a questionable pick at that round because of inconsistent play and practice habits and a chronic shoulder problem.


Gosh, I've been waiting for you to show up and come up with some of the facts for me :lol: :lol:

Where do I send the bill???? :D :D

[Harlan Huckleby]

Another pre-draft report:

I haven't questioned that he had problems in college. Despite his 7th round pedigree and reputation, he rose to top of the heap in GB.

Many talk today like they knew Wynn would fail. But there's a lot of chance involved. If Wynn doesn't get the shoulder injury last night, he quite likely would have had a big night. (The coaches rated him a better runner than Grant, after all.)

If Wynn clocks in with 120 yards, how many people are here today saying they just know he is a bum? None. Harvey might even repeat his praise from a couple weeks ago, ( I paraphrase), " I saw something special in that kid last summer."

It's fun to dog a player, particularly when saying he is weak/lazy/lacking heart, etc. And the opportunity arose when he got put on IR. Cheap.

[Bretsky]

Another pre-draft report:

I haven't questioned that he had problems in college. Despite his 7th round pedigree and reputation, he rose to top of the heap in GB.

Many talk today like they knew Wynn would fail. But there's a lot of chance involved. If Wynn doesn't get the shoulder injury last night, he quite likely would have had a big night. (The coach's rated him a better runner than Grant, after all.)

If Wynn clocks in with 120 yards, how many people are here today saying they just know he is a bum? None. Harvey might even repeat his praise from a couple weeks ago, ( I paraphrase), " I saw something special in that kid last summer."

It's fun to dog a player, particularly when saying he is weak/lazy/lacking heart, etc. And the opportunity arose when he got put on IR. Cheap.


I think being thrown to the top due to multiple injures would be more accurate.

Grant practiced with the first team much of last weak; him passing Wynn was more of a when than an if IMO. TT liked Grant well enough to give up a future draft pick and that was also an indicator of how sold he was on our current RB's.

How do you know the coaches rated him above Grant ? Wynn had the whole pre season to learn our system; Grant has only been here for a few weeks and getting use to how things work in GB.

I don't recall HW saying he saw something special in Wynn; maybe I'm wrong.

Anything we can get out of him is a plus for a 7th rounder. He is what I thought he was

A talented guy I'd never want to rely on

[Patler]

Another pre-draft report:

I haven't questioned that he had problems in college. Despite his 7th round pedigree and reputation, he rose to top of the heap in GB.

Many talk today like they knew Wynn would fail. But there's a lot of chance involved. If Wynn doesn't get the shoulder injury last night, he quite likely would have had a big night. (The coaches rated him a better runner than Grant, after all.)

If Wynn clocks in with 120 yards, how many people are here today saying they just know he is a bum? None. Harvey might even repeat his praise from a couple weeks ago, ( I paraphrase), " I saw something special in that kid last summer."

It's fun to dog a player, particularly when saying he is weak/lazy/lacking heart, etc. And the opportunity arose when he got put on IR. Cheap.

Nice sermon, but not very accurate, in my opinion. It seems to me people are only again stating the same concerns they have had about Wynn ever since he essentially missed all of training camp. There were plenty of complaints when he made the team by default, almost. There were complaints then, and later about a few minor nicks, and then his cramping problem after one drive. Ragging on him is not something new. Its simply more of the same.

Wynn did not rise to the top of the heap. The heap sort of slid away from around him, leaving him at the top of a pretty small bump. He did nothing to grab the job and "run with it". At one point he was the healthiest back they had, as even Grant had a hamstring issue for a couple weeks.

As far as Grant, they seemed to be working him in a little more for several games until his untimely fumble. Then he sat. Now it looks like he will have a chance to grab the job. We'll see if he does. Nothing was proven by one game against Denver.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think being thrown to the top due to multiple injures would be more accurate.

nah. He looked better than the other guys. Grant hasn't been injured.


TT liked Grant well enough to give up a future draft pick

Grant cost a 6th round pick, Wynn a 7th. Whoopie Dooo - they are both bargain basement guys.



Grant has only been here for a few weeks and getting use to how things work in GB.

He came to GB Sept 1. We're in week 9.


I don't recall HW saying he saw something special in Wynn; maybe I'm wrong.

If necessary, I'll ask the librarian, Scott Campbell, to dig through the archives and find it.

We were arguing about whether stats alone told the story of Wynn's abilities, I said I based my opinion on what I saw qualitatively from the preseason game. Harvey thrust out his chest and said he too recognized a diamond in the rough, or words to that effect.

[Patler]

I haven't questioned that he had problems in college.

You didn't??? What did you mean by this:



HarveyWallbangers wrote:
His college coaches didn't think much of him. Basically, the negatives about him in college have stayed with him in the pros. Get over it, Harlan.


What negatives?

[Bretsky]

Another pre-draft report:

I haven't questioned that he had problems in college. Despite his 7th round pedigree and reputation, he rose to top of the heap in GB.

Many talk today like they knew Wynn would fail. But there's a lot of chance involved. If Wynn doesn't get the shoulder injury last night, he quite likely would have had a big night. (The coaches rated him a better runner than Grant, after all.)

If Wynn clocks in with 120 yards, how many people are here today saying they just know he is a bum? None. Harvey might even repeat his praise from a couple weeks ago, ( I paraphrase), " I saw something special in that kid last summer."

It's fun to dog a player, particularly when saying he is weak/lazy/lacking heart, etc. And the opportunity arose when he got put on IR. Cheap.

Nice sermon, but not very accurate, in my opinion. It seems to me people are only again stating the same concerns they have had about Wynn ever since he essentially missed all of training camp. There were plenty of complaints when he made the team by default, almost. There were complaints then, and later about a few minor nicks, and then his cramping problem after one drive. Ragging on him is not something new. Its simply more of the same.

Wynn did not rise to the top of the heap. The heap sort of slid away from around him, leaving him at the top of a pretty small bump. He did nothing to grab the job and "run with it". At one point he was the healthiest back they had, as even Grant had a hamstring issue for a couple weeks.

As far as Grant, they seemed to be working him in a little more for several games until his untimely fumble. Then he sat. Now it looks like he will have a chance to grab the job. We'll see if he does. Nothing was proven by one game against Denver.


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Harlan Huckleby]

and then his cramping problem after one drive.

Ahh yes, the cramping!!! :lol: "definitely a result of dehydration" you sez. "Could be poor conditioning", I sez

How the worm has turned.


Ragging on him is not something new. Its simply more of the same.

The constant injuries were exhausting. IF people are just fed-up with that, fine. But the other stuff, statements about his heart, etc., are just blood sport.



Wynn did not rise to the top of the heap. The heap sort of slid away from around him

They had PLENTY of opportunity to move Morency, Grant or Jackson ahead of him. Last week, MM made a definitive statement that Wynn is numero uno.

[HarveyWallbangers]

We were arguing about whether stats alone told the story of Wynn's abilities, I said I based my opinion on what I saw qualitatively from the preseason game. Harvey thrust out his chest and said he too recognized a diamond in the rough, or words to that effect.

Wrong. This is what I stated:

1) I wasn't impressed with him early. I think it was the intrasquad scrimmage.
2) When everybody thought he should be cut after the last preseason game (when he had a bunch of carries, but not a lot of production), I stated that he actually looked good enough to keep on the roster.
3) When people were tooting his torn a bit during the season, I stated that I wasn't impressed. That he was getting better blocking than other players. I said that I didn't think he was special. I did give him credit for his long TD run against the Giants. He's looked pretty ordinary to me. He's also a terrible receiver. On the plus side, form most accounts, he's been a pretty good pass protector.
4) I stated early that Grant flashed more than any other RB in his limited appearances. I thought he was more intriguing than the others, and that coming from a guy who actually thought Brandon Jackson would be a good player.

I'm not always right, but I haven't wavered on Wynn.

[Harlan Huckleby]

You didn't??? What did you mean by this:

I'm asking for negatives from his days in Green Bay.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm not always right, but I haven't wavered on Wynn.

you were perched on the fence. wouldn't have taken much of a breeze from either direction.

[Patler]

I think being thrown to the top due to multiple injures would be more accurate.

nah. He looked better than the other guys. Grant hasn't been injured.



Yes, Grant was injured for a while when he first came to GB.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Yes, Grant was injured for a while when he first came to GB.

ya, I remember that now. (It was SO LONG ago I forgot - damn he's been riding the pines a long time. :) ) But he needed a couple weeks to learn the plays, that was no biggy.

[Patler]

and then his cramping problem after one drive.

Ahh yes, the cramping!!! :lol: "definitely a result of dehydration" you sez. "Could be poor conditioning", I sez

How the worm has turned.


Ragging on him is not something new. Its simply more of the same.

The constant injuries were exhausting. IF people are just fed-up with that, fine. But the other stuff, statements about his heart, etc., are just blood sport.



Wynn did not rise to the top of the heap. The heap sort of slid away from around him

They had PLENTY of opportunity to move Morency, Grant or Jackson ahead of him. Last week, MM made a definitive statement that Wynn is numero uno.

All I did was supply the quotes from scouting reports that you seemed to be asking for. I made no comments about Wynn before that in this thread, and after all I have done is try to inject some reality in opposition to your comments about what he has achieved this year. I actually sort of like Wynn, but he has not earned anything this year. None of the backs have yet..

[Harlan Huckleby]

I have done is try to inject some reality in opposition to your comments about what he has achieved this year.

What do quotes about his college career have to do with this season?



I actually sort of like Wynn, but he has not earned anything this year.

He DID earn the starting job in a fair competition. It wasn't injuries. He did not earn the kick in the ass that people are giving him as exits to IR.

Except, as I said before, if people are sick of his constants injuries, don't blame them for saying "enough!"

[Patler]

I only heard MM's comments "commiting" to Wynn once, and it seemed to be less a commitment to him, and more of a commitment to using one primary back and others situationally only. Wyn just happened to be the guy, because he has been the starter a couple weeks.

Even with that, Grant got a lot of practice with the first string according to the reporters practice blogs. Some of that was because Wynn was hurt from weightlifting.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not always right, but I haven't wavered on Wynn.

you were perched on the fence. wouldn't have taken much of a breeze from either direction.

After the last preseason game:


I didn't think Wynn looked that bad, and I haven't been a fan of his AT ALL. The blocking was horsecrap. Hard to gauge somebody when it's 2nd stringers and soon to be cut players against starters.

After the Giants game:


Am I the only one that wasn't that impressed with Wynn's run on the Favre play? It wasn't that special to me. He had an open field and a blocker in front of him. He had room on his other run too. It was a 3rd and 11 play, and he got 8 yards. He also had a false start. I thought he looked decent in the last preseason, but most people felt he should be cut after that game. He dropped a couple of balls and his stats were miserable. People are jumping on the Wynn bandwagon, but right now I still like Jackson a little more. I don't care who it is though, let's just hope one of these four RBs starts playing well...

I agree with ND. Wynn has had a few nice runs, but Jackson hasn't had the blocking that Wynn had on those two TD runs. Right now, both guys are below average. If I had to pick who will be the best long-term player in the NFL, I'd probably still choose Jackson. Neither look as good as Morency did last year. I wouldn't count Grant out either. Apparently, if you get a huge holes on a couple of runs, the dropped passes, false starts, and the unimpressive running for the rest of the three games are forgotten. Right now, I'd say it's still a crapshoot on who rises to the top...

I'll take back my comment on the second Wynn TD. The middle was stuffed, and he showed good awareness to take it outside and did well with it. I'd like to see what Jackson (and Grant) can do if he got a little blocking.

After the Washington game:


Morency hasn't been that bad--especially in the passing game. He had a couple of cuts he missed in this game. Wynn is such a plodder. He reminds me of Najeh. He's got some power and some speed, but he isn't good when he has to try to cut in the backfield. He's good when he gets a head of steam. Wynn is a good pass protector, but he has terrible hands, so it's kind of catch-22 to have him in on passing plays.

That's about the jist of my takes on Wynn.

[Patler]

I have done is try to inject some reality in opposition to your comments about what he has achieved this year.

What do quotes about his college career have to do with this season?



I thought you were questioning the negative reports from his college days. In response to others' statements about those, you asked what basis they had. I thought I was supplying it. Bretsky seemed to have the same impression of your statements, if I understand him correctly.

Now you suggest what you really want are things from this year.

[Harlan Huckleby]

patler, i conceded that Wynn was a fuck-up in college.

Harvey: I would say that your comments towards Wynn are relatively positive. And you also said something very encouraging about the preseason game that I recall.

[Patler]

He DID earn the starting job in a fair competition. It wasn't injuries.

No, he ascended to the role of starter when Jackson was injured. Jackson started the first three games, was injured against San Diego, and hasn't played since although he is now better, apparently. He was physically "out" for at least the first two games that Wynn started. Morrency hasn't been healthy all year.

[Harlan Huckleby]

injured against San Diego, and hasn't played since although he is now better

Jackson has been playing in practice for some time. And counting preseason, he has had more carries by far than the other backs (besides morency the lame.) Wynn beat him out fair and square.

Jackson couldn't get on the field ahead of Morency!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Harvey: I would say that your comments towards Wynn are relatively positive. And you also said something very encouraging about the preseason game that I recall.

Not really. I ripped him after Family Night. I thought he looked okay in the last preseason game. When others were on the Wynn bandwagon, I didn't jump on. I jumped on the Grant bandwagon pretty much from the get-go.

[Patler]

injured against San Diego, and hasn't played since although he is now better

Jackson has been playing in practice for some time. And counting preseason, he has had more carries by far than the other backs (besides morency the lame.) Wynn beat him out fair and square.

Jackson couldn't get on the field ahead of Morency!

I think the first game they said Jackson could have played was Washington. I'm not sure Wynn really beat him out. He took over when Jackson got hurt and there was no reason to make a change back to Jackson. Jackson certainly had earned nothing.

They really seem to be more committed to Morrency than almost anyone. He practices very little, yet they keep him active and give him opportunities. I think they are still hoping for him to be something the others aren't.

[FritzDontBlitz]

Wow. Does the night shift always bicker like this? :oops:

Anyway, there's a great writeup on Grant on the JSO site:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=680133

here's a notable excerpt from the article:


Finally earning back the trust he fumbled away on the artificial surface of the Metrodome in the fourth game of the season against Minnesota, Grant more than filled in for injured DeShawn Wynn to show folks back in Cheeseville as well as across the nation that rumors of the demise of the Green Bay running game were greatly exaggerated.

Since nearly costing his club a victory in Minnesota with his fourth-quarter fumble, Grant had been placed in the running back protection program. He entered the night with a grand total of 27 yards rushing for the season in six carries.

But with Wynn out of the game, Grant showed why the Packers were so high on him in the first place. Displaying an aggressive, slashing style of running, he carried the ball 22 times for 104 yards, eclipsing the entire Denver running game by 16 yards.

Now.

Here is a post from the Packers Blog, also hosted by JSO:


Thompson not giving up on Wynn
By Tom Silverstein
Tuesday, Oct 30 2007, 04:24 PM
Despite the fact that rookie running back DeShawn Wynn can't stay healthy and will spend the rest of the year on injured reserve, Green Bay Packers general manager Ted Thompson said he still has faith in him.

Wynn suffered shoulder and neck injuries on his first carry of the game in the Packers' 19-13 victory over the Broncos and probably would miss a good portion of the rest of the season, according to coach Mike McCarthy. The worst part of Wynn's injury was to a nerve in his neck, which is commonly referred to as a "stinger," although Thompson said there was also an injury to his shoulder joint.

"DeShawn Wynn did a nice job for us," Thompson said. "We thing he's going to be a good player for us. It's unfortunate that he got hurt. This is not a career-threatening thing. It's just something that's going to take time."

Thompson said he wasn't surprised by the performance of Ryan Grant, who rushed 22 times for 104 yards. He said the coaches have been preparing him every week for playing time because of the uncertainty of the team's various runners and that Grant has been progressing nicely.

"We like our guys," Thompson said. "We also like what DeShawn did for us and what he'll do in the future."

McCarthy also said that he still thinks Wynn has a promising future in Green Bay, but he acknowledged he will have to stay healthy.

It sounds like BOTH young guys have a promising future in Green Bay. I suspect the IR thing is an attempt to give Wynn an entire year of conditioning, playbook study and evaluation under TT's watchful eyes to further develop him because the see a huge upside in him.

Sorta how they brought Brady Poppinga along.

Any questions? :roll:

[Scott Campbell]

If necessary, I'll ask the librarian, Scott Campbell, to dig through the archives and find it.


Turn in your library card Harlan. Your mouth is too big for any library.

[Scott Campbell]

He DID earn the starting job in a fair competition. It wasn't injuries.


Put your crack pipe away Harlan. He became the starter by default. Nobody on this roster has stepped up and earned that job. The guys who are starting are getting a shot because everybody else has sucked.

[cpk1994]

His college coaches didn't think much of him. Basically, the negatives about him in college have stayed with him in the pros. Get over it, Harlan.

What negatives?

Why did the coaches move him ahead of the other three guys if he was a bum?

This is speculation.


Out of curiosity, how closely did you follow Wynn's career for the Gators ?? Of course no facts are ever facts because we don't know for 100% why he fell out of favor; but.........Sometimes I wonder if you are arguing just to argue.People you are aware that Urban Meyer came in halfway through Wynns 4 years, don't you? A change in schemes probably had a good bit to do with it if he couldn't adapt, especially into the spread that Meyer runs. I mean he went from playing for Ron Zook to Urban Meyer. He played for Zook and then when Meyer came in he dropped. Thats my theory anyway.

[Carolina_Packer]

This may have been found and posted when Grant first came to the Packers, but it's interesting. Many of the Giant's forum posters seemed to like Grant, but the last one was interesting...will never be a starting running back in the NFL. How things develop!

http://blog.nj.com/ledgergiants/2007/09/giants_trade_rb_grant_to_packe/print.html

I know you guys have been clarifying opinions about Wynn and others, but I've got a question. What do you think a player like Brandon Jackson thinks when a lesser regarded (at least by draft position) running back is now being given the chance ahead of him?

Here is an article from 3 years ago when Grant was at ND...it's interesting.

http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2004/11/12/IrishInsider/Ryan-Grant.Picking.Up.Where.He.Left.Off-803467.shtml

Another article talking about Grant signing with the Giants and some background info:

http://www.uhnd.com/articles/2005/nfl-irish/ryan-grant-signs-deal-with-giants-palmer-to-redskins/

Funny, here is the reaction of Giants fans after Grant's 100 yard performance: http://boards.giants.com/forums/1/503627/ShowThread.aspx

Something I'm trying to look up; perhaps one of you knows already. Grant was signed after the 2005 draft by the Giants as an undrafted rookie free agent. What was his roster status in 2005? Did he make the final roster? When you look him up, it only lists 2006 with the Giants, not 2005. On some web sites they only list him for 2007 with the Packers.

Here is a funny blog entry from "The Blue Screen", a NY Daily News blog about Grant in one of their practices in August:

August 6, 2007
New mystery: Who hit Ryan Grant?
There is a suddenly a bigger mystery at Giants camp than “Where is Michael Strahan?”

It’s “Who hit Ryan Grant?”

During the last series of goal-line drills at the evening practice, Grant – a Don Bosco product and Ramsey, NJ native – took a handoff from quarterback Jared Lorenzen, took a step towards the line of scrimmage and …

POW! All we heard from the sidelines was a loud, sickening thud.

Remarkably, the 6-1, 218-pound Grant kept going and his second effort nearly resulted in a touchdown. But it was hard to ignore the powerful hit.
Unfortunately, from our vantage point on the sidelines, we couldn’t tell who delivered the blow.

On the way off the field, DT Jonas Seawright took credit for the deed. But rookie LB Zak DeOssie gave credit to rookie S Michael Johnson. For what it's worth, defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo said “I just hope it was a defensive guy that delivered the hit.”

I expect that tomorrow the perpetrator will have a little chalk outline of Grant across his chest. Maybe if we’re lucky he’ll take credit for the blow in a well-crafted “Letter to the fans.”

[HarveyWallbangers]

I know you guys have been clarifying opinions about Wynn and others, but I've got a question. What do you think a player like Brandon Jackson thinks when a lesser regarded (at least by draft position) running back is now being given the chance ahead of him?

Who cares? I really liked Jackson coming out of college, but he had his chance as the starter. He failed--although the blocking didn't help him out. He's going to have to work hard in practice and show that he deserves another shot.

[Patler]

I know you guys have been clarifying opinions about Wynn and others, but I've got a question. What do you think a player like Brandon Jackson thinks when a lesser regarded (at least by draft position) running back is now being given the chance ahead of him?

Who cares? I really liked Jackson coming out of college, but he had his chance as the starter. He failed--although the blocking didn't help him out. He's going to have to work hard in practice and show that he deserves another shot.

Exactly. And with 3 running backs left he will have his chances again.

[Carolina_Packer]

I know you guys have been clarifying opinions about Wynn and others, but I've got a question. What do you think a player like Brandon Jackson thinks when a lesser regarded (at least by draft position) running back is now being given the chance ahead of him?

Who cares? I really liked Jackson coming out of college, but he had his chance as the starter. He failed--although the blocking didn't help him out. He's going to have to work hard in practice and show that he deserves another shot.

Exactly. And with 3 running backs left he will have his chances again.

I wasn't really getting at that he'd be "offended" or have a bad attitude like he was more deserving since he was a 2nd rounder, but that he might be like, "what the hell happened?" or "whoa, I'd better get my shit together" Really more of a what's he feeling inside in terms of his pride and what is that doing to him inside and how is it motivating him. Is he going to fight for carries and to prove he wasn't a bad pick, or will he resign himself to the fact that Grant is now the number 1?

To me, it doesn't matter where you came from, but what you do when you have the opportunity. There are many notable stories about guys who flew in from under the radar and became household names. Terell Davis comes to mind. What does that do to the more highly touted talent? Do they get motivated or do they fall by the way side?

Drafts are simply best measurements at the time they are taken. Sometimes what you think is cream is not and does not rise to the top, and sometimes a guy comes out of nowhere, works his arse off and comes at the right time. That may be Ryan Grant. We'll see. Let's hope. No sense in being dismissive of any talent, as long as they can be developed and improve their game, and are willing to work hard, and that can be translated to the field.

[mraynrand]

I know you guys have been clarifying opinions about Wynn and others, but I've got a question. What do you think a player like Brandon Jackson thinks when a lesser regarded (at least by draft position) running back is now being given the chance ahead of him?

Who cares? I really liked Jackson coming out of college, but he had his chance as the starter. He failed--although the blocking didn't help him out. He's going to have to work hard in practice and show that he deserves another shot.

Exactly. And with 3 running backs left he will have his chances again.

Wasn't the knock on BJ the fact that he sucked in pass pro? I have some notes from the preseason games that he looked awful picking up the rush. I thought that was the reason he was being platooned with other RBs when he was active. I know the camp notes from the JS said he sucked in pass pro. I think he's pretty good catching the ball, though.

[Patler]

Wasn't the knock on BJ the fact that he sucked in pass pro? I have some notes from the preseason games that he looked awful picking up the rush. I thought that was the reason he was being platooned with other RBs when he was active. I know the camp notes from the JS said he sucked in pass pro. I think he's pretty good catching the ball, though.

I remember it the same way. I also remember seeing him whiff completely on some blocks in the preseason. By the start of the season I seem to recall them referring to him as improved, but still a work-in-progress for pass protection.

[Carolina_Packer]

I had emailed a sports reporter from the NY Daily News to find out some info on Ryan Grant since he had the nice game vs. Denver and then got the start vs. KC. I asked him if he knew what happened with Grant the year he was signed with the Giants; whether he made the team or not. Here is his informative response.

>>Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Between the London trip and the bye week, I've been a little delinquent in reading my e-mail.

I'm not sure how well this trade is going to work out for the Giants, but it's definitely an under-the-radar deal that will pay dividends for the Packers, especially given their situation at RB right now. I believe the deal was for a low-round pick and it might be conditional on how much Grant plays. The Giants loved Grant, to tell you the truth. The problem is they were stacked at RB. Brandon Jacobs is their No. 1 and they believe they had a gem of a No. 2 in Derrick Ward. Plus they traded in the offseason for Reuben Droughns, who provided some veteran insurance so they certainly weren't going to give up on him. Barring a series of injuries, Grant was just never going to get an opportunity in New York. So they gave him away.

Anyway, to answer your questions ... The Giants signed Grant as a rookie free agent a few days after the 2005 draft and he was cut at the end of training camp on the day they cut down to the 53-man roster. The next day he was signed to the practice squad where he spent the entire 2005 season. Then, as you know, he hurt his hand which cost him all of '06.

Hope that helps. Let me know if you need anything else.

Ralph Vacchiano
New York Daily News<<

[Rastak]

Very nice of the guy to answer your email so completely.

I like to see that.

[falco]

Very nice of the guy to answer your email so completely.

I like to see that.

cliff christl was awesome at replying to readers e-mails. he reponsed to every one of mine thoroughly.

[HarveyWallbangers]

cliff christl was awesome at replying to readers e-mails. he reponsed to every one of mine thoroughly.

Indeed. Almost every time I emailed Uncle Cliffy, I got a response. He even answered my question in a few chats.

[FritzDontBlitz]

I had emailed a sports reporter from the NY Daily News to find out some info on Ryan Grant since he had the nice game vs. Denver and then got the start vs. KC. I asked him if he knew what happened with Grant the year he was signed with the Giants; whether he made the team or not. Here is his informative response.

>>Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Between the London trip and the bye week, I've been a little delinquent in reading my e-mail.

I'm not sure how well this trade is going to work out for the Giants, but it's definitely an under-the-radar deal that will pay dividends for the Packers, especially given their situation at RB right now. I believe the deal was for a low-round pick and it might be conditional on how much Grant plays. The Giants loved Grant, to tell you the truth. The problem is they were stacked at RB. Brandon Jacobs is their No. 1 and they believe they had a gem of a No. 2 in Derrick Ward. Plus they traded in the offseason for Reuben Droughns, who provided some veteran insurance so they certainly weren't going to give up on him. Barring a series of injuries, Grant was just never going to get an opportunity in New York. So they gave him away.

Anyway, to answer your questions ... The Giants signed Grant as a rookie free agent a few days after the 2005 draft and he was cut at the end of training camp on the day they cut down to the 53-man roster. The next day he was signed to the practice squad where he spent the entire 2005 season. Then, as you know, he hurt his hand which cost him all of '06.

Hope that helps. Let me know if you need anything else.

Ralph Vacchiano
New York Daily News<<

If I'm not mistaken, Grant actually sliced his hand open so bad that it cost him the entire rookie season, although I'm not exactly sure how it happened.

Thanks for the research.

By the way, Grant sustained a concussion in the KC game, any word on how he's coming along with that?

Thanks again.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm going out on a limb...of the four mentioned I'm gonna say Grant, even though I've never seen him play.

Morency is a good back, but can't stay healthy.

Jackson is next best, but way, way too green.

Wynn has promise but he's got to prove he has heart and the right attitude.

Grant (according to everything I've heard and read) is smart, fast, big and a hardworking, solid character. Plus, if Edgar sees Dorsey in him, that's good enough for me.



I think this proves I was the first to have a good reason to jump on the Grant bandwagon. :wink:

Above is posted for Bretsky's benefit. It's a settled question. Esoxx and I not only were the first on the Grant bandwagon. We built the damn thing. :)

[BlueBrewer]

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm going out on a limb...of the four mentioned I'm gonna say Grant, even though I've never seen him play.

Morency is a good back, but can't stay healthy.

Jackson is next best, but way, way too green.

Wynn has promise but he's got to prove he has heart and the right attitude.

Grant (according to everything I've heard and read) is smart, fast, big and a hardworking, solid character. Plus, if Edgar sees Dorsey in him, that's good enough for me.



I think this proves I was the first to have a good reason to jump on the Grant bandwagon. :wink:

Above is posted for Bretsky's benefit. It's a settled question. Esoxx and I not only were the first on the Grant bandwagon. We built the damn thing. :)

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:44 am Post subject: Ryan Grant

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know he only had one significant touch in the game but it was a sweet run after catch. I think he needs to be considered for the 3rd down back if he can block that is. That spin move was sweet.


I was also in at the start. Only 4 days behind you.

[SkinBasket]

I masturbated to thoughts of Grant on the evening of September 9th.

[FritzDontBlitz]

Actually, this was the first thread I could find devoted to Ryan Grant, blue:

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=8367&highlight=grant

Its the one you started. I never participated in the trade thread.

I appreciate you guys digging up mine, though: it was fun reading the posts from people who insisted Grant was just a fluke.