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View Full Version : Can't believe I'm agreeing with Dr. Z



packinpatland
10-31-2007, 04:23 PM
I normally never agree with much Z writes, but wow, he sure nailed this one.




http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/dr_z/10/30/running.up/index.html



In 1991 I was covering Atlanta-Washington in the playoffs. I talked to the Falcons' defensive end, Tim Green, and he said, "Ask Glanville about Joe Gibbs throwing the out and up in the fourth quarter when they were ahead, 42-17. He's been using that as a motivational tool all week."

The Redskins' out and up went for 64 yards and a touchdown to Art Monk in that November meeting and moved the score to 49-17. It ended up 56-17. So when I talked to Falcons coach Jerry Glanville that evening in his hotel suite I asked him about it. His eyes narrowed.

"That's just football," he said. Then he flashed rage.

"You came in here to stir things up, didn't you, didn't you?" he said. I told him I heard he'd been bothered by it.

"Get the hell out of here," he said, and next thing I knew my notebook and I were out in the hall.

Ten years later I met Glanville at a party at the league meetings in March. He didn't remember me. I asked him, casually, about Gibbs throwing the out and up, leading 42-17. Rage once again, only this time it wasn't directed at me.

"That son of a bitch," he said. "I'll never forget it. Someday I'll get even."

All the coaches have formed a solid blue line of defense for Bill Belichick's going deep with 38 points on the board against the Redskins, for piling on more scores until the count reached 52. They sound like the police department when one of their own is called to task. Hey, that's just football. You run your offense. You take care of your own team. You want to prevent it, then stop them. Blah blah blah.

It's all lies, of course. They hate it when it's done to them and they never forget. But to whine about it, to go public, uh uh. It shows weakness. It's un-American. Your players might start to wonder.

Who can guess why Belichick failed to call off the hounds against Washington? Maybe he was so wired to details that he didn't quite notice the score. Do you believe that one? Nah, me neither, but it is an explanation. Personally I think he was trying to send a message of fear throughout the league. If you slip just one little bit against us, you could be looking at the wrong end of 52-7. That might be a bit too psychological, but who knows what drives someone who's driven?

Coaches, of course, have a very high threshold for other peoples' pain, and some players who are out on the field performing these hijinks might have other ideas about how safe they are.

"We were playing, I think it was Buffalo, my first year under Hank Stram," said the Chiefs' Hall of Fame quarterback, Len Dawson. "Now Henry was a guy who loved running up the score. We had 34 points late in the fourth quarter and we were calling time outs and still trying to score more. The Bills had a plane they were trying to catch back home, and we're slowing the game and trying to humiliate them.

"I mean they were really pissed. They were yelling across the line at me, 'Hey Dawson, we'll see you at our place. We won't forget this, Dawson.'

"I told Henry, 'It's enough. We have to play these guys again.' He said, 'Nah, we're gonna score all we can.' Sure enough, when we played them up there, they had smoke coming out of their noses. They beat us and I got hurt in the game. Ribs or something."

Leave your starters in. Score as many as you can. Sure, it's good, sound football. Until it backfires.

Partial
10-31-2007, 04:44 PM
I don't remember what show it was on WSSP but they were taking about somebody getting pissed, snapping and really laying the wood for a 15 yarder on Brady or Moss.

BB should really shape up or it is going to happen. You don't think Joey Porter is willing to take a 50k fine and 15 yards for his pride? I could definitely foresee him or one of those nasty Steeler linebackers slamming Brady into the turf head first.

My theory is if they want to keep throwing at the end of the game, I am going to start playing nasty and blitzing every play and hitting late play after play.

I have a hunch you'll see some teams start doing that as well.

3irty1
10-31-2007, 05:36 PM
Agreed.

oregonpackfan
10-31-2007, 05:51 PM
Heck, even I agree with Dr. Z.

When Bart Starr was coach, he made it a point not to run up the score--for the few games the Packers were way ahead during his tenure. :)

FritzDontBlitz
10-31-2007, 07:03 PM
Yup. I agree with Z.

CaliforniaCheez
10-31-2007, 08:09 PM
Some of you may remember 1996 and the game at Dallas. Late in the game the Dallas coach wanted their kicker to get a franchise record 5 field goals in one game.

It was late in the game and it was the most angry I ever saw Reggie White.

A less disciplined team would have roughed up the kicker. As it was the kicker did not celebrate but got off the field immediately.

The next year at Lambeau the Packers ran up 45 points on Dallas in one of Dorsey Levens best games.

Things do get remembered.

GrnBay007
10-31-2007, 08:17 PM
On one of the pre-game shows they asked if they felt the Pats ran up the score and I think it was the Miami game they were talking about. Only one said he felt they ran up the score. Others said it's the NFL and you can never have enough points. They pointed out the Houston game a couple weeks ago when they scored 29 (pretty sure it was 29) points in the 4th quarter.

HarveyWallbangers
10-31-2007, 08:55 PM
Come on now. They were up 38-0 in the 4th quarter... with the ball. Washington had no chance of coming back. It was dumb. LeRoy Butler said it best. If you are the other team, don't complain. Just start coming after them with all-out blitzes and try to hit their players hard. Give them something to think about. He said do it within the rules, but then said maybe even get a 15-yard penalty. I'm assuming he meant go after Brady. Don't try to get cheap, but if you catch him a little late, so be it.

Bretsky
10-31-2007, 09:00 PM
Come on now. They were up 38-0 in the 4th quarter... with the ball. Washington had no chance of coming back. It was dumb. LeRoy Butler said it best. If you are the other team, don't complain. Just start coming after them with all-out blitzes and try to hit their players hard. Give them something to think about. He said do it within the rules, but then said maybe even get a 15-yard penalty. I'm assuming he meant go after Brady. Don't try to get cheap, but if you catch him a little late, so be it.


The temptation would be there to go after their best player and take him out when they run the score up. BB may be messing with fire.

Good think they aren't the Bears and Forrest Gregg is not the coach; maybe somebody will bring back Kenny Stills to do some more dirty work

Carolina_Packer
10-31-2007, 09:23 PM
Come on now. They were up 38-0 in the 4th quarter... with the ball. Washington had no chance of coming back. It was dumb. LeRoy Butler said it best. If you are the other team, don't complain. Just start coming after them with all-out blitzes and try to hit their players hard. Give them something to think about. He said do it within the rules, but then said maybe even get a 15-yard penalty. I'm assuming he meant go after Brady. Don't try to get cheap, but if you catch him a little late, so be it.


The temptation would be there to go after their best player and take him out when they run the score up. BB may be messing with fire.

Good think they aren't the Bears and Forrest Gregg is not the coach; maybe somebody will bring back Kenny Stills to do some more dirty work

Hockey has it's justice on ice. If you go after our goalie in any way shape or form, the gloves will be dropped and it is on. In baseball you buzz people to get them off the plate, so they don't crowd the plate. If you hit them, you just expect that one of their pitchers is going to retaliate.

Does football have that kind of justice or self-policing? I don't know. Like others have said, you don't want to be dirty or reckless, but you do want to show the other team what you think of their tactics. It's funny, in the most physical collision sport there is, there really isn't that kind of justice as compared with hockey fights and beanballs. But, that said, I think there is a place for it within the rules, even if you have to take a penalty to prove a point. See if Mr. Brady likes his shoulder driven into the turf or a helmet in his ribs as he is being tackled hard. You show us up, we're not going to stand there and take it. We'll show you what we think of it.

mraynrand
10-31-2007, 09:27 PM
The reality is that the only teams who see the Pats twice all really suck - Bills, Jets, Fins. What a terrible division. Still, as I noted in the Charles Martin thread - and Butler is on the same wavelength as me - someone is gonna get pissed and is gonna lay the lumber extra hard and perhaps a little late. And if someone either loses it or gets egged on by a pissed off coach, you could get a Charles Martin type move and whooosh - thus endeth Brady's career. Very stupid moves by Belicheat - his rep is sullied and nothing will repair it. GO TONY DUNGY. I hope you and the Colts kick the living shit outta those guys Sunday.

MJZiggy
10-31-2007, 09:30 PM
The reality is that the only teams who see the Pats twice all really suck - Bills, Jets, Fins. What a terrible division. Still, as I noted in the Charles Martin thread - and Butler is on the same wavelength as me - someone is gonna get pissed and is gonna lay the lumber extra hard and perhaps a little late. And if someone either loses it or gets egged on by a pissed off coach, you could get a Charles Martin type move and whooosh - thus endeth Brady's career. Very stupid moves by Belicheat - his rep is sullied and nothing will repair it. GO TONY DUNGY. I hope you and the Colts kick the living shit outta those guys Sunday.

:bclap:

Jimx29
10-31-2007, 10:04 PM
Karma is a bitch

Cheesehead Craig
10-31-2007, 11:20 PM
This past week on an ESPN show with Ditka on it, the host asked Ditka if the Pats were running up the score. He kept responding "What's the problem?" Finally, he said that they weren't. Then he continued that if teams have a problem with it, do something about it. When asked to elaborate, he just said do something about it.

You know damn well that if he was still coaching and this was happening to him, he'd send some backup LB out and take a 15 yd late hit penalty on Brady or have a safety go head hunting on a WR. If this keeps up, someone is going to take exception to it and then the shit is going to fly.

oregonpackfan
10-31-2007, 11:34 PM
I am still waiting for the Packers to get back at Warren Sapp and his cheap block on our offensive tackle after the interception! At least Sherman had the gonads to verbally confront Sapp after the game. :x

Guiness
11-01-2007, 04:33 AM
I also think BB's players will end up paying for it. I'm actually surprised the way he's going about it as well - it just doesn't make sense. For instance, he seems to be exposing Brady unnecessarily, and if he loses him, it'll be bad news.

For instance, what was with sending Brady on the sneak for the TD. An LB plugs that hole, leading with hishelmet and good night Irene.

I would think he'd be interested in the future a little more, and getting his 2nd string QB in there for some very important development.

run pMc
11-01-2007, 08:53 AM
Agree with Z. BB is playing with fire. What goes around comes around.

I agree with Butler and Ditka. If I was the DC and my squad was getting trounced for 38+, I'd send the house on a blitz and just crush the QB. If that wasn't clear enough, I'd start going after the receivers. Not to end their season or career, but to send a message.

There is no mercy rule, but there is karma.

packinpatland
11-01-2007, 09:05 AM
I hope Brady will be telling a story similar to Len Dawson's.

fan4life
11-01-2007, 09:30 AM
Like I said in the Charles Martin thread, I predict the end of the AFC Championship game will get nasty. Especially if the Pats are winning...

packinpatland
11-01-2007, 11:36 AM
Cowher: Brady could be target of cheap shot
Wednesday, Oct 31, 2007 4:13 pm EDT


As the New England Patriots pour it on opponents, fans have to be wondering about it and Tuesday former Pittsburgh Steelers coach Bill Cowher said it: If the Patriots keep running up the score, will someone like Tom Brady will be the victim of a retaliatory hit?

The subject of the Pats' late-game tactics is causing a lot of buzz around the NFL, particularly after Sunday's 52-7 victory over the Washington Redskins. On a CBS conference call with reporters Tuesday. Cowher noted the Patriots could be playing a dangerous game.

"At some point if this continues, someone's going to take a cheap shot,'' Cowher said. "Is that worth subjecting your players to if it comes to that?''

Source: Boston Herald