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Freak Out
11-01-2007, 05:32 PM
Right here at home.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:1:./temp/~c110SEG4G7:e51894:

Kiwon
11-01-2007, 08:02 PM
Right here at home.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:1:./temp/~c110SEG4G7:e51894:

The link didn't work. What was the problem?

Freak Out
11-02-2007, 07:15 AM
WTF? How dare they do that....

Freak Out
11-02-2007, 07:19 AM
They better not move this one.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:5:./temp/~c110eJHQq1:e51894:

hoosier
11-02-2007, 09:01 AM
I think all LOC database searches are set to expire after five minutes of inactivity. You would probably need to cut and paste or copy image.

MJZiggy
11-02-2007, 09:06 AM
S.2248
FISA Amendments Act of 2007 (Placed on Calendar in Senate)

TITLE II--PROTECTIONS FOR ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION SERVICE PROVIDERS

SEC. 201. DEFINITIONS.

In this title:

(1) ASSISTANCE- The term `assistance' means the provision of, or the provision of access to, information (including communication contents, communications records, or other information relating to a customer or communication), facilities, or another form of assistance.

(2) CONTENTS- The term `contents' has the meaning given that term in section 101(n) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1801(n)).

(3) COVERED CIVIL ACTION- The term `covered civil action' means a civil action filed in a Federal or State court that--

(A) alleges that an electronic communication service provider furnished assistance to an element of the intelligence community; and

(B) seeks monetary or other relief from the electronic communication service provider related to the provision of such assistance.

(4) ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION SERVICE PROVIDER- The term `electronic communication service provider' means--

(A) a telecommunications carrier, as that term is defined in section 3 of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 153);

(B) a provider of an electronic communication service, as that term is defined in section 2510 of title 18, United States Code;

(C) a provider of a remote computing service, as that term is defined in section 2711 of title 18, United States Code;

(D) any other communication service provider who has access to wire or electronic communications either as such communications are transmitted or as such communications are stored;

(E) a parent, subsidiary, affiliate, successor, or assignee of an entity described in subparagraph (A), (B), (C), or (D); or

(F) an officer, employee, or agent of an entity described in subparagraph (A), (B), (C), (D), or (E).

(5) ELEMENT OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY- The term `element of the intelligence community' means an element of the intelligence community specified in or designated under section 3(4) of the National Security Act of 1947 (50 U.S.C. 401a(4)).

SEC. 202. LIMITATIONS ON CIVIL ACTIONS FOR ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION SERVICE PROVIDERS.

(a) Limitations-

(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a covered civil action shall not lie or be maintained in a Federal or State court, and shall be promptly dismissed, if the Attorney General certifies to the court that--

(A) the assistance alleged to have been provided by the electronic communication service provider was--

(i) in connection with an intelligence activity involving communications that was--

(I) authorized by the President during the period beginning on September 11, 2001, and ending on January 17, 2007; and

(II) designed to detect or prevent a terrorist attack, or activities in preparation for a terrorist attack, against the United States; and

(ii) described in a written request or directive from the Attorney General or the head of an element of the intelligence community (or the deputy of such person) to the electronic communication service provider indicating that the activity was--

(I) authorized by the President; and

(II) determined to be lawful; or

(B) the electronic communication service provider did not provide the alleged assistance.

(2) REVIEW- A certification made pursuant to paragraph (1) shall be subject to review by a court for abuse of discretion.

(b) Review of Certifications- If the Attorney General files a declaration under section 1746 of title 28, United States Code, that disclosure of a certification made pursuant to subsection (a) would harm the national security of the United States, the court shall--

(1) review such certification in camera and ex parte; and

(2) limit any public disclosure concerning such certification, including any public order following such an ex parte review, to a statement that the conditions of subsection (a) have been met, without disclosing the subparagraph of subsection (a)(1) that is the basis for the certification.

(c) Nondelegation- The authority and duties of the Attorney General under this section shall be performed by the Attorney General (or Acting Attorney General) or a designee in a position not lower than the Deputy Attorney General.

(d) Civil Actions in State Court- A covered civil action that is brought in a State court shall be deemed to arise under the Constitution and laws of the United States and shall be removable under section 1441 of title 28, United States Code.

(e) Rule of Construction- Nothing in this section may be construed to limit any otherwise available immunity, privilege, or defense under any other provision of law.

(f) Effective Date and Application- This section shall apply to any covered civil action that is pending on or filed after the date of enactment of this Act.

SEC. 203. PROCEDURES FOR IMPLEMENTING STATUTORY DEFENSES UNDER THE FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE ACT OF 1978.

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.), as amended by section 101, is further amended by adding after title VII the following new title:

`TITLE VIII--PROTECTION OF PERSONS ASSISTING THE GOVERNMENT

`SEC. 801. DEFINITIONS.

`In this title:

`(1) ASSISTANCE- The term `assistance' means the provision of, or the provision of access to, information (including communication contents, communications records, or other information relating to a customer or communication), facilities, or another form of assistance.

`(2) ATTORNEY GENERAL- The term `Attorney General' has the meaning give that term in section 101(g).

`(3) CONTENTS- The term `contents' has the meaning given that term in section 101(n).

`(4) ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION SERVICE PROVIDER- The term `electronic communication service provider' means--

`(A) a telecommunications carrier, as that term is defined in section 3 of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 153);

`(B) a provider of electronic communications service, as that term is defined in section 2510 of title 18, United States Code;

`(C) a provider of a remote computing service, as that term is defined in section 2711 of title 18, United States Code;

`(D) any other communication service provider who has access to wire or electronic communications either as such communications are transmitted or as such communications are stored;

`(E) a parent, subsidiary, affiliate, successor, or assignee of an entity described in subparagraph (A), (B), (C), or (D); or

`(F) an officer, employee, or agent of an entity described in subparagraph (A), (B), (C), (D), or (E).

`(5) ELEMENT OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY- The term `element of the intelligence community' means an element of the intelligence community as specified or designated under section 3(4) of the National Security Act of 1947 (50 U.S.C. 401a(4)).

`(6) PERSON- The term `person' means--

`(A) an electronic communication service provider; or

`(B) a landlord, custodian, or other person who may be authorized or required to furnish assistance pursuant to--

`(i) an order of the court established under section 103(a) directing such assistance;

`(ii) a certification in writing under section 2511(2)(a)(ii)(B) or 2709(b) of title 18, United States Code; or

`(iii) a directive under section 102(a)(4), 105B(e), as in effect on the day before the date of the enactment of the FISA Amendments Act of 2007 or 703(h).

`(7) STATE- The term `State' means any State, political subdivision of a State, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the District of Columbia, and any territory or possession of the United States, and includes any officer, public utility commission, or other body authorized to regulate an electronic communication service provider.

`SEC. 802. PROCEDURES FOR IMPLEMENTING STATUTORY DEFENSES.

`(a) Requirement for Certification-

`(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no civil action may lie or be maintained in a Federal or State court against any person for providing assistance to an element of the intelligence community, and shall be promptly dismissed, if the Attorney General certifies to the court that--

`(A) any assistance by that person was provided pursuant to an order of the court established under section 103(a) directing such assistance;

`(B) any assistance by that person was provided pursuant to a certification in writing under section 2511(2)(a)(ii)(B) or 2709(b) of title 18, United States Code;

`(C) any assistance by that person was provided pursuant to a directive under sections 102(a)(4), 105B(e), as in effect on the day before the date of the enactment of the FISA Amendments Act of 2007, or 703(h) directing such assistance; or

`(D) the person did not provide the alleged assistance.

`(2) REVIEW- A certification made pursuant to paragraph (1) shall be subject to review by a court for abuse of discretion.

`(b) Limitations on Disclosure- If the Attorney General files a declaration under section 1746 of title 28, United States Code, that disclosure of a certification made pursuant to subsection (a) would harm the national security of the United States, the court shall--

`(1) review such certification in camera and ex parte; and

`(2) limit any public disclosure concerning such certification, including any public order following such an ex parte review, to a statement that the conditions of subsection (a) have been met, without disclosing the subparagraph of subsection (a)(1) that is the basis for the certification.

`(c) Removal- A civil action against a person for providing assistance to an element of the intelligence community that is brought in a State court shall be deemed to arise under the Constitution and laws of the United States and shall be removable under section 1441 of title 28, United States Code.

`(d) Relationship to Other Laws- Nothing in this section may be construed to limit any otherwise available immunity, privilege, or defense under any other provision of law.

`(e) Applicability- This section shall apply to a civil action pending on or filed after the date of enactment of the FISA Amendments Act of 2007.'.

SEC. 204. PREEMPTION OF STATE INVESTIGATIONS.

Title VIII of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.), as added by section 203 of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following new section:

`SEC. 803. PREEMPTION.

`(a) In General- No State shall have authority to--

`(1) conduct an investigation into an electronic communication service provider's alleged assistance to an element of the intelligence community;

`(2) require through regulation or any other means the disclosure of information about an electronic communication service provider's alleged assistance to an element of the intelligence community;

`(3) impose any administrative sanction on an electronic communication service provider for assistance to an element of the intelligence community; or

`(4) commence or maintain a civil action or other proceeding to enforce a requirement that an electronic communication service provider disclose information concerning alleged assistance to an element of the intelligence community.

`(b) Suits by the United States- The United States may bring suit to enforce the provisions of this section.

`(c) Jurisdiction- The district courts of the United States shall have jurisdiction over any civil action brought by the United States to enforce the provisions of this section.

`(d) Application- This section shall apply to any investigation, action, or proceeding that is pending on or filed after the date of enactment of the FISA Amendments Act of 2007.'.

SEC. 205. TECHNICAL AMENDMENTS.

The table of contents in the first section of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.), as amended by section 101(b), is further amended by adding at the end the following:

`TITLE VIII--PROTECTION OF PERSONS ASSISTING THE GOVERNMENT

`Sec. 801. Definitions.

`Sec. 802. Procedures for implementing statutory defenses.

`Sec. 803. Preemption.'.

TITLE III--OTHER PROVISIONS

SEC. 301. SEVERABILITY.

If any provision of this Act, any amendment made by this Act, or the application thereof to any person or circumstances is held invalid, the validity of the remainder of the Act, any such amendments, and of the application of such provisions to other persons and circumstances shall not be affected thereby.

SEC. 302. EFFECTIVE DATE; REPEAL; TRANSITION PROCEDURES.

(a) In General- Except as provided in subsection (c), the amendments made by this Act shall take effect on the date of the enactment of this Act.

(b) Repeal-

(1) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in subsection (c), sections 105A, 105B, and 105C of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1805a, 1805b, and 1805c) are repealed.

(2) TABLE OF CONTENTS- The table of contents in the first section of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.) is amended by striking the items relating to sections 105A, 105B, and 105C.

(c) Transitions Procedures-

(1) PROTECTION FROM LIABILITY- Notwithstanding subsection (b)(1), subsection (l) of section 105B of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 shall remain in effect with respect to any directives issued pursuant to such section 105B for information, facilities, or assistance provided during the period such directive was or is in effect.

(2) ORDERS IN EFFECT-

(A) ORDERS IN EFFECT ON DATE OF ENACTMENT- Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act or of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978--

(i) any order in effect on the date of enactment of this Act issued pursuant to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 or section 6(b) of the Protect America Act of 2007 (Public Law 110-55; 121 Stat. 556) shall remain in effect until the date of expiration of such order; and

(ii) at the request of the applicant, the court established under section 103(a) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1803(a)) shall reauthorize such order if the facts and circumstances continue to justify issuance of such order under the provisions of such Act, as in effect on the day before the date of the enactment of the Protect America Act of 2007, except as amended by sections 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, and 109 of this Act.

(B) ORDERS IN EFFECT ON DECEMBER 31, 2013- Any order issued under title VII of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, as amended by section 101 of this Act, in effect on December 31, 2013, shall continue in effect until the date of the expiration of such order. Any such order shall be governed by the applicable provisions of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, as so amended.

(3) AUTHORIZATIONS AND DIRECTIVES IN EFFECT-

(A) AUTHORIZATIONS AND DIRECTIVES IN EFFECT ON DATE OF ENACTMENT- Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act or of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, any authorization or directive in effect on the date of the enactment of this Act issued pursuant to the Protect America Act of 2007, or any amendment made by that Act, shall remain in effect until the date of expiration of such authorization or directive. Any such authorization or directive shall be governed by the applicable provisions of the Protect America Act of 2007 (121 Stat. 552), and the amendment made by that Act, and, except as provided in paragraph (4) of this subsection, any acquisition pursuant to such authorization or directive shall be deemed not to constitute electronic surveillance (as that term is defined in section 101(f) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1801(f)), as construed in accordance with section 105A of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1805a)).

(B) AUTHORIZATIONS AND DIRECTIVES IN EFFECT ON DECEMBER 31, 2013- Any authorization or directive issued under title VII of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, as amended by section 101 of this Act, in effect on December 31, 2013, shall continue in effect until the date of the expiration of such authorization or directive. Any such authorization or directive shall be governed by the applicable provisions of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, as so amended, and, except as provided in section 704 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, as so amended, any acquisition pursuant to such authorization or directive shall be deemed not to constitute electronic surveillance (as that term is defined in section 101(f) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, to the extent that such section 101(f) is limited by section 701 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, as so amended).

(4) USE OF INFORMATION ACQUIRED UNDER PROTECT AMERICA ACT- Information acquired from an acquisition conducted under the Protect America Act of 2007, and the amendments made by that Act, shall be deemed to be information acquired from an electronic surveillance pursuant to title I of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.) for purposes of section 106 of that Act (50 U.S.C. 1806), except for purposes of subsection (j) of such section.

(5) NEW ORDERS- Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act or of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978--

(A) the government may file an application for an order under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, as in effect on the day before the date of the enactment of the Protect America Act of 2007, except as amended by sections 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, and 109 of this Act; and

(B) the court established under section 103(a) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 shall enter an order granting such an application if the application meets the requirements of such Act, as in effect on the day before the date of the enactment of the Protect America Act of 2007, except as amended by sections 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, and 109 of this Act.

(6) EXTANT AUTHORIZATIONS- At the request of the applicant, the court established under section 103(a) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 shall extinguish any extant authorization to conduct electronic surveillance or physical search entered pursuant to such Act.

(7) APPLICABLE PROVISIONS- Any surveillance conducted pursuant to an order entered pursuant to this subsection shall be subject to the provisions of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, as in effect on the day before the date of the enactment of the Protect America Act of 2007, except as amended by sections 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, and 109 of this Act.

Freak Out
11-02-2007, 09:31 AM
Thanks Ziggy....I had no idea they were expiring.

the_idle_threat
11-03-2007, 12:12 AM
Sorry, Freak Out, but it's not fascism for the government to protect people and companies from civil liability when those people or companies provide information to intelligence services per specific government requests, directives or court orders.

Do you think it would be better for people and companies to face civil lawsuits for complying with government requests, directives and court orders? Talk about being between a rock and a hard place ... let's see ... it's a choice between possibly going to jail or being sued. This legislation eliminates that conundrum.

And note the fact that the civil lawsuits are only dismissed when the Attorney General of the U.S. certifies to the court that the info was provided per request and for national security reasons. Also note that the court has the discretion to review the Attorney General's certification, which means that it does not have to be taken at face value.

How is this "fascist"?

Freak Out
11-03-2007, 11:35 AM
Sorry, Freak Out, but it's not fascism for the government to protect people and companies from civil liability when those people or companies provide information to intelligence services per specific government requests, directives or court orders.

Do you think it would be better for people and companies to face civil lawsuits for complying with government requests, directives and court orders? Talk about being between a rock and a hard place ... let's see ... it's a choice between possibly going to jail or being sued. This legislation eliminates that conundrum.

And note the fact that the civil lawsuits are only dismissed when the Attorney General of the U.S. certifies to the court that the info was provided per request and for national security reasons. Also note that the court has the discretion to review the Attorney General's certification, which means that it does not have to be taken at face value.

How is this "fascist"?

When the government starts to enlist corporations to spy on it's citizens and then grants them immunity from any legal action I would call that fascism.

Joemailman
11-03-2007, 04:23 PM
What happened in this case was the very definition of fascism. Fascism is combining the power of government and corporations in order to control the overall population. Unfortunately, we now live in a country that is fearful enough to let a little fascism seep into their government feeling it will give them security.

Qwest was the one major telecom company that refused to take part in the program. They wanted the NSA to get clearance from FISA first, and the NSA refused. I think we know why.

the_idle_threat
11-04-2007, 01:05 AM
Sorry, Freak Out, but it's not fascism for the government to protect people and companies from civil liability when those people or companies provide information to intelligence services per specific government requests, directives or court orders.

Do you think it would be better for people and companies to face civil lawsuits for complying with government requests, directives and court orders? Talk about being between a rock and a hard place ... let's see ... it's a choice between possibly going to jail or being sued. This legislation eliminates that conundrum.

And note the fact that the civil lawsuits are only dismissed when the Attorney General of the U.S. certifies to the court that the info was provided per request and for national security reasons. Also note that the court has the discretion to review the Attorney General's certification, which means that it does not have to be taken at face value.

How is this "fascist"?

When the government starts to enlist corporations to spy on it's citizens and then grants them immunity from any legal action I would call that fascism.

That's one way to spin it, I guess.

Do you really think this is something new? I know that JH is that naive, but I thought you and Joe were smarter.

Corporations and individuals have always been subpoenaed for information---this is nothing unique to the current Administration---and they give the info because they have to. This law simply disallows people to "kill the messenger" by going after the company which was complying with a request or order, when they should go after the government for making the request in the first place if they think they have a claim.

the_idle_threat
11-04-2007, 01:20 AM
What happened in this case was the very definition of fascism. Fascism is combining the power of government and corporations in order to control the overall population. Unfortunately, we now live in a country that is fearful enough to let a little fascism seep into their government feeling it will give them security.

Qwest was the one major telecom company that refused to take part in the program. They wanted the NSA to get clearance from FISA first, and the NSA refused. I think we know why.

Perhaps it would be instructive to review the actual definition of fascsim:




Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: \ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date: 1921
1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality — J. W. Aldridge>

Seems a bit extreme to deem the sharing of intelligence information "fascism," no? Maybe a LOT extreme.

There really doesn't seem to be such a thing as "a little fascism." And even if you want to say there is, then I don't see how this law applies to your complaint.

This law is not the one you want to target, because it's not the one that authorizes the intelligence agencies to compel the information from companies and individuals. This is the law that disallows parties whose information was shared from directing lawsuits at who is essentially the messenger, when they should be directing their lawsuits at the government itself for compelling the information.

And on another note, what do you guys think our intelligience services do, if not this kind of stuff? Crossword puzzles and word jumble?

Do you think we should disband our intelligence services entirely? :crazy:

Kiwon
11-04-2007, 05:11 AM
What's interesting to note about fascism is that when's there's a real fascist, Hugo Chavez, for example, the number of Hollywood characters (Kevin Spacey. Sean Penn, Danny Glover) that admire the guy and are eager for a photo-op. Singer Harry Belafonte is his biggest fan and even British model Naomi Campbell went to see him last week.

Let's not forget that Castro has a fan in Michael Moore.

I don't quite get why these people who are proud liberals are nuts over an Anti-American dictator that is systematically expanding government control over the media, the country's legislature and judiciary, private businesses, etc.

The disturbing implication is that they would be supportive of this kind of government in the USA if the right leader comes along to right every wrong via the government. Chavez is a menace to basic human rights but to these folks he's a grassroots hero.

Freak Out
11-06-2007, 09:49 PM
What's interesting to note about fascism is that when's there's a real fascist, Hugo Chavez, for example, the number of Hollywood characters (Kevin Spacey. Sean Penn, Danny Glover) that admire the guy and are eager for a photo-op. Singer Harry Belafonte is his biggest fan and even British model Naomi Campbell went to see him last week.

Let's not forget that Castro has a fan in Michael Moore.

I don't quite get why these people who are proud liberals are nuts over an Anti-American dictator that is systematically expanding government control over the media, the country's legislature and judiciary, private businesses, etc.

The disturbing implication is that they would be supportive of this kind of government in the USA if the right leader comes along to right every wrong via the government. Chavez is a menace to basic human rights but to these folks he's a grassroots hero.

I'm a liberal and think Castro is a fucking traitor and Chavez is no better.

Freak Out
11-06-2007, 09:51 PM
Castro told his people that he would give them freedom and democracy and he gave them neither.

Kiwon
11-07-2007, 06:45 PM
What's interesting to note about fascism is that when's there's a real fascist, Hugo Chavez, for example, the number of Hollywood characters (Kevin Spacey. Sean Penn, Danny Glover) that admire the guy and are eager for a photo-op. Singer Harry Belafonte is his biggest fan and even British model Naomi Campbell went to see him last week.

Let's not forget that Castro has a fan in Michael Moore.

I don't quite get why these people who are proud liberals are nuts over an Anti-American dictator that is systematically expanding government control over the media, the country's legislature and judiciary, private businesses, etc.

The disturbing implication is that they would be supportive of this kind of government in the USA if the right leader comes along to right every wrong via the government. Chavez is a menace to basic human rights but to these folks he's a grassroots hero.

I'm a liberal and think Castro is a fucking traitor and Chavez is no better.

http://img.breitbart.com/images/2007/11/7/D8SP4FF00/D8SP4FF00.jpg

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - Gunmen opened fire on students returning from a march Wednesday in which 80,000 people denounced President Hugo Chavez's attempts to expand his power. At least eight people were injured, including one by gunfire, officials said.

Photographers for The Associated Press saw at least two gunmen—one wearing a ski mask and another covering his face with a T-shirt—firing handguns at the anti-Chavez crowd. Terrified students ran through the campus as ambulances arrived.

National Guard troops gathered outside the Central University of Venezuela, the nation's largest and a center for opposition to Chavez's government. Venezuelan law bars state security forces from entering the campus, but Luis Acuna, the minister of higher education, said they could be called in if the university requests them.

Antonio Rivero, director of Venezuela's Civil Defense agency, told local Union Radio that at least eight people were injured, including one by gunfire, and that no one had been killed. Earlier, Rivero said he had been informed that one person had died in the violence.

The violence broke out after anti-Chavez demonstrators—led by university students—marched peacefully to the Supreme Court to protest constitutional changes that Venezuelans will consider in a December referendum.

The amendments would abolish presidential term limits, give the president control over the Central Bank and let him create new provinces governed by handpicked officials.

<edit - end>
.................................................. .................................

Now, do you think we'll hear from Sean Penn and company condemning the suppression of freedoms in Venezuela or are actions such as these acceptable "means to an end?"