View Full Version : Mac or PC for 11yr old?
Guiness
11-04-2007, 11:26 AM
Ok, open the debate that's been going on since the 80's 8-)
I'm getting my 11 yr old son a laptop for Xmas, and am debating getting him a Macbook.
We have a Windows box at home that he uses, and is fairly proficient on. They have both Windows and Macs (?why?) at his school...Macs in the library, but the have a trolley of Windows machines that they bring around to the classrooms. So school wise, I don't think it matters.
I'm leaning towards the Mac, because I've used them on occasion over the years, and have always enjoyed them. Haven't touched one since they went to the Unix/Linux based OS though.
Price wise, there's a fair amount of difference - I can get a used 2Gig Macbook for about $1000, or a brand new Dell for $600. Honestly, that's not going to affect my decision too much.
Anyone want to offer some guidance?
Tx!
GBRulz
11-04-2007, 11:43 AM
Sure. don't buy a Dell.
I'd go the mac route though. Don't have to worry about the kid picking up viruses from anywhere, either. The new OS will be on the new Macs, too. Sure Mac's cost a bit more, but what some don't realize is that alot of the necessary software that is commonly used (a good photo editing program, for example) is already included. Where as with PC's, I find myself having to buy more software. Plus they get outdated quickly. In the long run, are PC's really cheaper.... I don't think so.
I just sold my imac, only because I'm going the Macbook Pro route myself. Anyone want to buy a Vaio laptop? :wink:
]{ilr]3
11-04-2007, 11:47 AM
Get a PC.
There cheaper and far more upgradable and they are more likely to learn something usefull from it. The buisness world is not going to change to use Macs, EVER! Let them learn the most marketable things that they can take with them to the job place.
Buying a Mac is like learning a dead language.... Whats the point....? :?:
digitaldean
11-04-2007, 12:09 PM
Macs a dead end?? Then please explain their growth in the market over the last 2 years, please? :?:
Get the MacBook and get VMWare Fusion to run a copy of Windows Vista? Parallels is another one that allows you to run the Mac OS and the Windows OS. You also can get the free software from Apple called Boot Camp. (a little less versatile but otherwise OK option).
As for the business world not switching to Macs ever, I doubt that. More and more businesses are switching to Macs. Even more business colleges are switching to Macs because of their overall lower cost to maintain and prevent viruses, malware, spyware, etc.)
I admit it, I am biased. I have worked on Macs since 1987. I have a Dell desktop as well as testing my website development work and for my wife's schoolwork (she's going back to college to get her HR degree). But everytime I work on a PC it's the most frustrating bunch of clap trap there is.
]{ilr]3
11-04-2007, 01:26 PM
Macs a dead end?? Then please explain their growth in the market over the last 2 years, please? :?:
Get the MacBook and get VMWare Fusion to run a copy of Windows Vista? Parallels is another one that allows you to run the Mac OS and the Windows OS. You also can get the free software from Apple called Boot Camp. (a little less versatile but otherwise OK option).
As for the business world not switching to Macs ever, I doubt that. More and more businesses are switching to Macs. Even more business colleges are switching to Macs because of their overall lower cost to maintain and prevent viruses, malware, spyware, etc.)
I admit it, I am biased. I have worked on Macs since 1987. I have a Dell desktop as well as testing my website development work and for my wife's schoolwork (she's going back to college to get her HR degree). But everytime I work on a PC it's the most frustrating bunch of clap trap there is.
Are you kidding? :shock:
They have a 4% market share even after this so called growth and thats only because of Ipod users.
Macs are generally fluff pieces. And the idea that they are more secure from viruses only proves my point. Even hackers ignor them because they dont want to waste there time going after such a small market :lol:
Mac's are far from a dead language, but their % of market is still under 10%. A Macbook is a good option if you want to spend $1400, but if you want a functional system for much less get a PC. Mac OS is better than windows functionally and visually, but they will not penetrate the business market anytime soon if ever.
And the argument that running them both is the answer is patently false. Why spend the extra money for Mac hardware that is not upgradable? I own both a PC (homebuilt) and a Mac (Dual G5 2G) and can honestly say that I prefer the Mac OS, but the hardware prices are too much for the average person.
Get a PC, unless you need something Mac specfic or money is no object.
Partial
11-04-2007, 02:10 PM
{ilr]3]Get a PC.
There cheaper and far more upgradable and they are more likely to learn something usefull from it. The buisness world is not going to change to use Macs, EVER! Let them learn the most marketable things that they can take with them to the job place.
Buying a Mac is like learning a dead language.... Whats the point....? :?:
Disagree completely. The child is going to learn how to use a PC in school and in most life situations on their own. I would get them an Apple computer and let them be ahead of the game and have experience with both operating systems.
By the time an 11 year old is 25, it is very likely that Linux and Unix will be much more relevant in business usage beyond simply networking and programming. I would not be surprised at all to see a linux workstation 14-15 years from now with all the free software available. OS X will give a good introduction to this
Partial
11-04-2007, 02:13 PM
Mac's are far from a dead language, but their % of market is still under 10%. A Macbook is a good option if you want to spend $1400, but if you want a functional system for much less get a PC. Mac OS is better than windows functionally and visually, but they will not penetrate the business market anytime soon if ever.
And the argument that running them both is the answer is patently false. Why spend the extra money for Mac hardware that is not upgradable? I own both a PC (homebuilt) and a Mac (Dual G5 2G) and can honestly say that I prefer the Mac OS, but the hardware prices are too much for the average person.
Get a PC, unless you need something Mac specfic or money is no object.
How many Windows-based laptops are upgradable? If anything, the MacBook is more easy to upgrade with the ability to add ram (4 gb max) and a tool-less hard drive upgrade (which doesn't void the warranty). You cannot upgrade the hard drive on very many other laptops without voiding your warranty.
It is ridiculous that the intro-level MacBook doesn't have a DVD-burner.
While they're more expensive, you get superior build quality, a luxury product in OS X (you can use it right outta the box, you don't need to spend hours removing gigabyte after gigabyte of junk software).
Get a PC, unless you need something Mac specfic or money is no object.
Partial
11-04-2007, 03:50 PM
Get a PC, unless you need something Mac specfic or money is no object.
Why? I completely disagree.
Guiness
11-04-2007, 03:59 PM
Some interesting positions...maybe I should go with the third option, put Slackware and KDE on a laptop!
Anyways, some interesting perspectives. I hear you GBR, I don't think Dell makes a very good business class laptop anymore (their D series sucked ass) but this machine doesn't have to be reliable - it's essentially a toy. Although I'd be interested in hearing who you'd recommend? I've got an IBM IBM, but don't think I'll replace it with a Lenovo IBM.
On the software side, I guess you can save a bit of money with the Mac, because, for example, the imaging software they bundle isn't Microsoft Paint. But I don't generally have to pay for PC software because my company buys me licenses.
I'll be honest, I'm also thinking of getting this 'cause I'm interested in it myself!
Keep the comments coming!
]{ilr]3
11-04-2007, 04:10 PM
Mac's are far from a dead language, but their % of market is still under 10%. A Macbook is a good option if you want to spend $1400, but if you want a functional system for much less get a PC. Mac OS is better than windows functionally and visually, but they will not penetrate the business market anytime soon if ever.
And the argument that running them both is the answer is patently false. Why spend the extra money for Mac hardware that is not upgradable? I own both a PC (homebuilt) and a Mac (Dual G5 2G) and can honestly say that I prefer the Mac OS, but the hardware prices are too much for the average person.
Get a PC, unless you need something Mac specfic or money is no object.
How many Windows-based laptops are upgradable? If anything, the MacBook is more easy to upgrade with the ability to add ram (4 gb max) and a tool-less hard drive upgrade (which doesn't void the warranty). You cannot upgrade the hard drive on very many other laptops without voiding your warranty.
It is ridiculous that the intro-level MacBook doesn't have a DVD-burner.
While they're more expensive, you get superior build quality, a luxury product in OS X (you can use it right outta the box, you don't need to spend hours removing gigabyte after gigabyte of junk software).
They are not uust more expensive, they are twice as expensive.
You can get a really nice Windows based laptop with a DVD burner and a gig of RAM and a nice graphics processor for under $600!
Use that $500 to buy all the software they will use until they graduate. Or better yet, save that moeny for there college fees and they can learn on a system they will actually be using someday.
Partial
11-04-2007, 05:17 PM
BS. They are not twice as expensive. Maybe 10%. And that is all put right back into your pocket in bundled software, quality of user-experience, and build quality.
Who would want to spend 1000 on a 2" thick machine with a lower dpi display, less intelligently laid out ports, crappy keyboard, etc. when they can spend an extra 100 bucks and get a far superior product?
You could drive a new kia or a 3 year old honda civic for the same price. Which would you choose?
Charles Woodson
11-04-2007, 05:22 PM
Get a PC, unless you need something Mac specfic or money is no object.
Why? I completely disagree.
you disagree cause your an apple bitch,
My siblings all have dell laptops and they all love them, they range in age from 20-26... my parents and i have dell desktops, and have since forever, ive never had a problem with them..
So i agree with zool, unless hes going into editing or something specific, get him a dell
Charles Woodson
11-04-2007, 05:23 PM
BS. They are not twice as expensive. Maybe 10%. And that is all put right back into your pocket in bundled software, quality of user-experience, and build quality.
Who would want to spend 1000 on a 2" thick machine with a lower dpi display, less intelligently laid out ports, crappy keyboard, etc. when they can spend an extra 100 bucks and get a far superior product?
You could drive a new kia or a 3 year old honda civic for the same price. Which would you choose?
well in this case, the mac would be used so it would be the civic, and the pc would be the new kia... id go with the new kia
Get a PC, unless you need something Mac specfic or money is no object.
Why? I completely disagree.
I could find you 10 Core2 PC's right now with more ram that are $600 less.
Again, if money is no object get the Mac.
Do you even read what I write or skim for something thats an apparent slight against Apple Almighty or his son Steven Jobs? Mac zealots are easily riled up.
FYI you can run OS 10.4 on a Core2 PC if you have an ATI card.
]{ilr]3
11-04-2007, 05:50 PM
BS. They are not twice as expensive. Maybe 10%. And that is all put right back into your pocket in bundled software, quality of user-experience, and build quality.
Who would want to spend 1000 on a 2" thick machine with a lower dpi display, less intelligently laid out ports, crappy keyboard, etc. when they can spend an extra 100 bucks and get a far superior product?
You could drive a new kia or a 3 year old honda civic for the same price. Which would you choose?
I dont know where you can buy Mac Books, but I imagine they are all relatively priced
Starting at $1100
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=browse&mco=7B723640&node=home/shop_mac/family/macbook
Just over $600 for a dang nice laptop
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834107003
I get kinda pissed at my school system when I see all the Macs in the Elementary building. But it turns out they are basically dontated. Kinda like the tobacco industry handing out smokes in the cafeteria. All PCs in the High School thank god. If you want something to keep track of your IPOD songs I am sure a Mac is great. But I would prefer that they teach kids how to work in the real world.
Yes, I realize I am being a buthole about this, :P
GBRulz
11-04-2007, 05:51 PM
The company I work for has gone 100% mac about 2 years ago. Slowly, they are finally getting them to us out in the field, but I'm looking for a macbook pro for myself.
Why I don't like Dell is because of their lousy service and "support". I guess that's just my philosophy in general though...if I get bad service from somewhere, they will never get a penny of my business ever again.
ya know Guiness, there are pros and cons to each decision, but i'd go the mac route. On their website, say you are a teacher or a student and you'll get $200 off. Not that I've ever done that or anything.... :oops:
Partial
11-04-2007, 07:49 PM
Get a PC, unless you need something Mac specfic or money is no object.
Why? I completely disagree.
I could find you 10 Core2 PC's right now with more ram that are $600 less.
Again, if money is no object get the Mac.
Do you even read what I write or skim for something thats an apparent slight against Apple Almighty or his son Steven Jobs? Mac zealots are easily riled up.
FYI you can run OS 10.4 on a Core2 PC if you have an ATI card.
Illegally for one. Secondly, yes, if you want a piece of shit computer than spend the 600 dollars. Again, I could buy a kia or a honda civic. I may pay more for the Civic but I am making a much better decision in terms of resale value, total cost of ownership, and enjoying the experience much, much more.
You get what you pay for.
]{ilr]3
11-04-2007, 08:13 PM
Get a PC, unless you need something Mac specfic or money is no object.
Why? I completely disagree.
I could find you 10 Core2 PC's right now with more ram that are $600 less.
Again, if money is no object get the Mac.
Do you even read what I write or skim for something thats an apparent slight against Apple Almighty or his son Steven Jobs? Mac zealots are easily riled up.
FYI you can run OS 10.4 on a Core2 PC if you have an ATI card.
Illegally for one. Secondly, yes, if you want a piece of shit computer than spend the 600 dollars. Again, I could buy a kia or a honda civic. I may pay more for the Civic but I am making a much better decision in terms of resale value, total cost of ownership, and enjoying the experience much, much more.
You get what you pay for.
I love my $600 laptop. Its great and It well worth the money.
I recently passed on buying a used 2003 Honda civic, Toyota corolla and bought a Chevy cavilver all with 50000 miles on them. I paid 7000 less for the chevy. I know the others would last longer and are better quality. But I by far got the beter deal on the chevy. For now and in the long run. By far a better deal. I could by anouther car just like it and still spend less money.
Just because your paying a lot of money doenst mean your getting the best deal
MJZiggy
11-04-2007, 08:22 PM
I spent not much more than I would have otherwise, shopped hard and came up with a car that I absolutely LOVE, will keep until it croaks (which will be a long time) and wouldn't trade for anything. If there is a comparable way to go about computer buying, then that's clearly what you should do. Get what you're gonna love looking at every day.
Guiness
11-05-2007, 05:41 AM
Lots of thoughts here - and nerves have been touched, as expected 8-)
Here's my take:
BS. They are not twice as expensive. Maybe 10%. And that is all put right back into your pocket in bundled software, quality of user-experience, and build quality.
Sorry Partial, but Killer and CW are right here. Even comparing a new Windows machine to a used Macbook, I'm looking at $600 vs $1000. Having said that, I'm not concerned about that much money - I just want what's best for him. And it doesn't bother me to buy used - case in point, I drive a 6yr old VW as opposed to a new Chevy I could've gotten for the same money :P
Which brings me to Zool's comment - it's not that money is no object, but this much money doesn't matter. Looks like you're saying you'd go with the Mac.
Guiness
11-05-2007, 06:57 AM
Geez, you shouldn't have mentioned the educational discount! Now I'm annoyed.
At the US store, with an educational discount, the entry level Macbook is $999. Canadian store, no educational discount available, $1249!!! With our dollar higher, the difference is pretty close to $300. What a crock.
Hmmmmm, I'm thinking $300 pays for a chunk of a trip to GB. Maybe I need to drive down and pick one up from some friendly PR'er 8-)
Get a PC, unless you need something Mac specfic or money is no object.
Why? I completely disagree.
I could find you 10 Core2 PC's right now with more ram that are $600 less.
Again, if money is no object get the Mac.
Do you even read what I write or skim for something thats an apparent slight against Apple Almighty or his son Steven Jobs? Mac zealots are easily riled up.
FYI you can run OS 10.4 on a Core2 PC if you have an ATI card.
Illegally for one. Secondly, yes, if you want a piece of shit computer than spend the 600 dollars. Again, I could buy a kia or a honda civic. I may pay more for the Civic but I am making a much better decision in terms of resale value, total cost of ownership, and enjoying the experience much, much more.
You get what you pay for.
It is of course sacrilege to speak bad about the All Mighty Fruit-tastic, but here goes.
My first 2 Mac's were SHIT. I had a G3 tower and then a mirror-door G4. Both had hardware issues, but I'm sure you can explain that away too. I've had just as many hardware issues with my Macs and PC's.
And no you dont always get what you pay for. My G5 has been rock solid, but the G3 and G4 were far from it.
Give up Partial, I know of what I speak as much as you do, except I'm old, crotchety and have a ton of time on my hands.
Guiness
11-05-2007, 10:55 AM
Ok, if I decide to go the used Mac route, what's acceptable hardware? I've seen a couple of 933Mhz G4's running 10.4 for around $500. Is this still a useable platform, or would you stay away from it because of the architecture change?
My G4 1Ghz is kinda slow with 10.4 and 2g of RAM. Its usable, but not like i want it to be.
10.2 ran pretty well on it, but thats pretty outdated now.
1.6 would be my recommendation, but if you can afford the Core2's, they run light years faster than the G4's and G5's.
Partial
11-05-2007, 11:16 AM
Ok, if I decide to go the used Mac route, what's acceptable hardware? I've seen a couple of 933Mhz G4's running 10.4 for around $500. Is this still a useable platform, or would you stay away from it because of the architecture change?
I'd stick with a MacBook. If it has 512 ram in it, put in an additional 1gb stick.
Check craigslist.com
3irty1
11-05-2007, 11:17 AM
Partial can attest that I am not a Mac fan by any means but I'd too recommend a Macintosh for any kids first computer. They do hold their value quite well, are durable for the most part and there is value in learning the OS even though calling it a marketable skill is a stretch. From my experience kids tend to trash Windows PC's in a matter of days with spyware and viruses. This is a bullet you definitely want to dodge.
Partial
11-05-2007, 11:57 AM
Partial can attest that I am not a Mac fan by any means but I'd too recommend a Macintosh for any kids first computer. They do hold their value quite well, are durable for the most part and there is value in learning the OS even though calling it a marketable skill is a stretch. From my experience kids tend to trash Windows PC's in a matter of days with spyware and viruses. This is a bullet you definitely want to dodge.
Not to mention if you were to get a PC, I would recommend locating an OS disc an doing a clean install. Too much junk comes pre-installed and boots up with the machine, making them slow as can be often times.
Keep in mind, on the new MacBooks they just increased the amount of ram that is shared with the integrated graphics from 64mb to 255mb. That means you might want to get some more ram.
Partial can attest that I am not a Mac fan by any means but I'd too recommend a Macintosh for any kids first computer. They do hold their value quite well, are durable for the most part and there is value in learning the OS even though calling it a marketable skill is a stretch. From my experience kids tend to trash Windows PC's in a matter of days with spyware and viruses. This is a bullet you definitely want to dodge.
Not to mention if you were to get a PC, I would recommend locating an OS disc an doing a clean install. Too much junk comes pre-installed and boots up with the machine, making them slow as can be often times.
Keep in mind, on the new MacBooks they just increased the amount of ram that is shared with the integrated graphics from 64mb to 255mb. That means you might want to get some more ram.
I still say 2g is what you should have for 10.4 and especially for 10.5. My friend got a McBook Core2 and its fast, tho it runs too warm to really use on your lap. Its faster than my Dual G5 by quite a bit, but a few apps still dont run right yet. The Intel extensions just arent finished. A year from now the G5 will be a dinosaur.
Freak Out
11-05-2007, 12:07 PM
The answer is here....
http://www.laptopmag.com/Review/Exclusive-First-Review-Asus-Eee-PC-701.htm
Partial
11-05-2007, 12:10 PM
The answer is here....
http://www.laptopmag.com/Review/Exclusive-First-Review-Asus-Eee-PC-701.htm
Yeah. I actually want to pick one of those up. I don't have a laptop and often find myself sick of sitting at my desk/table. 250 is kinda steep for the features, but I guess they'll hold their value for awhile.
3irty1
11-05-2007, 01:40 PM
The answer is here....
http://www.laptopmag.com/Review/Exclusive-First-Review-Asus-Eee-PC-701.htm
Anyone actually have one of these? Seems a little too dumbed down for anyone but old folks.
Freak Out
11-05-2007, 04:53 PM
The answer is here....
http://www.laptopmag.com/Review/Exclusive-First-Review-Asus-Eee-PC-701.htm
Anyone actually have one of these? Seems a little too dumbed down for anyone but old folks.
I believe it was intended for children/education...I love the fact that it runs another Linux variation.
3irty1
11-05-2007, 07:00 PM
The answer is here....
http://www.laptopmag.com/Review/Exclusive-First-Review-Asus-Eee-PC-701.htm
Anyone actually have one of these? Seems a little too dumbed down for anyone but old folks.
I believe it was intended for children/education...I love the fact that it runs another Linux variation.
Everything runs linux.
Freak Out
11-05-2007, 07:13 PM
The answer is here....
http://www.laptopmag.com/Review/Exclusive-First-Review-Asus-Eee-PC-701.htm
Anyone actually have one of these? Seems a little too dumbed down for anyone but old folks.
I believe it was intended for children/education...I love the fact that it runs another Linux variation.
Everything runs linux.
Ok...let me rephrase that last statement. I comes with an Asus/linux OS.
superfan
11-05-2007, 08:14 PM
Ok, if I decide to go the used Mac route, what's acceptable hardware? I've seen a couple of 933Mhz G4's running 10.4 for around $500. Is this still a useable platform, or would you stay away from it because of the architecture change?
Guiness, since you stated earlier that you were OK with spending for a new MacBook, I would pass on the PowerBook G4. The G4 should run Mac OS 10.4 (Tiger) just fine, but it barely meets the minimum specs for the latest OS, 10.5 Leopard, which was just released a couple weeks ago. Usually when systems barely meet the minimum specs, they are very underwhelming in real world use.
The benefit of the MacBook over the PowerBook is that you will likely extend the usefulness of the system by 2-3 years, which can save you money over the long run. And you can run the Mac OS now but switch to Windows (or even run both) later if you wish by using the methods described previously. You can't run Windows on a PowerBook.
As far as Mac vs. PC, of course there are pros and cons with both. Less virus risk is a nice benefit of the Mac OS, especially considering this is intended for an 11 year old who will likely be spending a lot of time online. However, there are still many less games available for Mac OS than Windows, if that is a consideration.
Some claim that Macs are generally more durable than PCs, and I have found this to not be the case. While Macs are widely viewed to be better designed, we (my company) have found the build quality to deteriorate more rapidly over time than Dells, resulting in more hardware repairs than the Dells. The MacBook line has been more durable to date than the previous Apple lines, but still less durable than Dell and Lenovo.
Since you stated that you already have a Windows system that your 11 year old has been using, I would go with a MacBook. This will give your kid exposure to both operating systems, and since Macs ARE making inroads in many businesses (sorry Killer, but that is the case in some industries) I think it is a smart move to be well versed in both.
superfan
11-05-2007, 08:19 PM
and a tool-less hard drive upgrade (which doesn't void the warranty). You cannot upgrade the hard drive on very many other laptops without voiding your warranty.
Thank God. The previous generation iBooks required a complete disassembly of the system to remove the hard drive. Over 100 screws, and took the better part of a day. And that's assuming you were lucky enough to put everything back together without any screwups. Apple listened to their tech community on this one.
I question the statement about swapping hard drives with other laptops voiding the warranty. I haven't run into that. But then again, I haven't worked with many consumer class laptops, so that could be the case with those lines.
superfan
11-05-2007, 08:21 PM
FYI you can run OS 10.4 on a Core2 PC if you have an ATI card.
Seriously? Didn't know anybody had cracked OS 10 to run on third party hardware yet. Link?
Rastak
11-05-2007, 08:25 PM
FYI you can run OS 10.4 on a Core2 PC if you have an ATI card.
Seriously? Didn't know anybody had cracked OS 10 to run on third party hardware yet. Link?
Yea, that would be interesting...although I doubt I'd use it being a gamer.....
Partial
11-05-2007, 10:25 PM
10.5 got cracked the first day it came out for use on a core 2 system. It's still illegal, however.
Freak Out
11-05-2007, 11:03 PM
Hmmmm..
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/2007/11/02/mac_osx/
10.5 got cracked the first day it came out for use on a core 2 system. It's still illegal, however.
And I would never condone such a thing.
Although all you need is an Intel MB(765 chipset i believe?) with a Core2 and an ATI video card. I haven't researched it all that much as I'm still running an AMD.
Merlin
11-06-2007, 01:10 PM
Here we go again with this ridiculous debate.
Exposure to MAC is a good thing, however not the end all. MAC will NOT be over taking the market nor will Linux/Unix. Not 10-15 years down the road, not now not ever. 10-15 years from now you will see a large change in PC/MAC, the idea of a home computer won't exist.
PC's are what most companies and a lot of schools mandate to use. Unless your child is going to be working in IT, then their PC knowledge is much more important at this age then who can piss the farthest. I am not saying surrender to almighty Microsoft but I am saying be smart with your kid and let them be educated on what is the standard today. They can learn MAC, Linux, etc when the time is right if need be. It isn't a stretch for any GUI OS anymore anyway.
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