Just for fun

[b bulldog]

Hawk had a pretty good day yesterday, so I thought I'd bring back the Super Sophs numbers

Ryans
73 tackles,2 sacks, 1 forced fumble,1 interception
Sims
71 tackles,1 sack,1 forced fumble, 1 interception
Rocky McIntosh
67 tackles, 3 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 0 interceptions
Chad Greenway
50 tackles, 1 forced fumble
Hawk
50 tackles, 1 forced fumble, 1 interception

I was surprised how many plays McIntosh has made, wow :shock:

[Deputy Nutz]

I just wish Hawk was the featured linebacker in this over scheme that the Packers run, then these stats wouldn't even be close. Although I have to agree that Hawk has been a slight underperformer this year, but he isn't attacking the ball like he did so well at Ohio St. Grant it, the NFL isn't Ohio St, but Hawk was a really special player at Ohio St and he has shown that same ability in small stretches.

[RashanGary]

I just wish Hawk was the featured linebacker in this over scheme that the Packers run, then these stats wouldn't even be close. Although I have to agree that Hawk has been a slight underperformer this year, but he isn't attacking the ball like he did so well at Ohio St. Grant it, the NFL isn't Ohio St, but Hawk was a really special player at Ohio St and he has shown that same ability in small stretches.

I was listening to McCarthy's press conference. He said what we all sort of saw for ourselves. He said Hawk has done a very good job and what people don't realize is he's in coverage a lot and his name not being called is acctually a good thing.

[b bulldog]

Bob McGinn on Hawk, "he is so so" . McGin has an article on Hawk in the Packers insider. "After 24 games in the NFL, THE BEST WAY TO LABEL Hawk is an average LB"," hAWK IS SOLID BUT HE IS NO DIFFERENCE MAKER", He still seems to be thinking too much and that takes away his fliudness and natural athleticism""his tackling is no better than adequate and he doesn't seem as intense as in college" Mc Ginn ended it with this, "We do know this about Hawk, he's durable, he's humble,he's committed and he isn't going to settle for just being an average starter, but for now at least, that is what he is"

[b bulldog]

yeah, we really don't want our 5th overall pick making big plays :oops: You really don't actually believe that do you?? There is coach speak along with GM speak.

[HarveyWallbangers]

That was before this last game, and you are an @ss. How are Mario and Vince Young?

[oregonpackfan]

I just wish Hawk was the featured linebacker in this over scheme that the Packers run, then these stats wouldn't even be close. Although I have to agree that Hawk has been a slight underperformer this year, but he isn't attacking the ball like he did so well at Ohio St. Grant it, the NFL isn't Ohio St, but Hawk was a really special player at Ohio St and he has shown that same ability in small stretches.

We also have to remember that Hawk played middle linebacker at OSU where he was in a position to be more of an impact player. His stats would be higher if he was at the MLB position, IMO.

[HarveyWallbangers]

We get your point, bulldog. You are jealous of Ohio State, but is it really necessary to start a Hawk is a disappointment thread every couple of weeks?

Why don't you start up a thread talking about how much Mario Williams and Vince Young suck?

It's even more assinine after Hawk had a great game against Kansas City.

[b bulldog]

Mario sucks but Young is a winner and that is what matters. Last time I checked he has won about 75% of his games that he has started. How is your Cutler and Liney doing ?? One more thing, I also stated that Hawk isn't any better than the rest of a group of upper echelon LB's and I guess I really hit that on the head , right??? Most NFL ready defensive player? I admit I was wrong about Mario but I also take credit for what I said about Hawk and Reggie Bush :lol: Harv, did I touch a nerve?

[b bulldog]

5TH overall pick, 1 pic, 4 tackles=great game :oops: Sims by that standard is basicly having a great game every other week and Rocky must be all pro already :oops:

[b bulldog]

Jealous of the Bucks, not really. I liked many Bucks in the past but like Larrinitas? Hawk will never be what the lovers of O St want him to be.

[Bretsky]

That was before this last game, and you are an @ss. How are Mario and Vince Young?


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: SUPERMARIO

[Bretsky]

We get your point, bulldog. You are jealous of Ohio State, but is it really necessary to start a Hawk is a disappointment thread every couple of weeks?

It's even more assinine after Hawk had a great game against Kansas City.


Yes, it appears that it is necessary

[Bretsky]

Jealous of the Bucks, not really. I liked many Bucks in the past but like Larrinitas? Hawk will never be what the lovers of O St want him to be.


You should be jealous of OSU; I am. What about that Rob Carpenter ?

[b bulldog]

Anthoney Schlegel was the MLB with Carpenter and Hawk outside as O St.

[Rastak]

Jealous of the Bucks, not really. I liked many Bucks in the past but like Larrinitas? Hawk will never be what the lovers of O St want him to be.


You should be jealous of OSU; I am. What about that Rob Carpenter ?


Most OSU guys have to take a pay cut to go to the NFL......

[b bulldog]

Good point, I was wrong on him also. I thought he would make a good SLB. Way off with that one. I guess when I stated that Hawk wasn't the best LB on his college team I was wrong, my bad.

[b bulldog]

Unlike the masses who does include Harv, Nick and B (who all thought that AJ WAS THE 2ND COMING) I can admit when I am wrong. What about the MLB who went to Cinncy since we are now pointing out bad calls or what about the WR from UT who was drafted by the Saints? Ron Wolf along with Parcells both have stated that Mario was #1 on their boards but like me, dead wrong. At least the Lions knew what they were doing when they drafted Sims.

[Bretsky]

Unlike the masses who does include Harv, Nick and B (who all thought that AJ WAS THE 2ND COMING) I can admit when I am wrong. What about the MLB who went to Cinncy since we are now pointing out bad calls or what about the WR from UT who was drafted by the Saints? Ron Wolf along with Parcells both have stated that Mario was #1 on their boards but like me, dead wrong. At least the Lions knew what they were doing when they drafted Sims.


If there was an emoticon with a big yawn on it this thread would be very deserving

I guess you feel the need to fill space in between the next Favre should retire to let AROD play thread

[Deputy Nutz]

Bulldog what makes you ridiculous is that you quote a fucking journalist that interviewed one scout on the whole thing. The scout wasn't all that flattering of Hawk and I sure haven't been this year.

But the only thing you care to do is look up stats, and say, "Hey look at the stats!" Well sometimes you have to say, "Fuck the stats" Who the fuck else makes tackles for the Lions defense? Bailey???? Sorry the bottom line is that the Packers play a certain scheme and it isn't one that show cases AJ Hawk, at least at this point.

Hawk needs to be let loose, let him run at the snap of the ball, I guarantee he makes more tackles then plays that he over runs.

[b bulldog]

Good one, I'd expect more but when you have nothing else that you can throw in my face about Hawk, oh well :lol: Brett does deserve his backers for what he has done but why does Hawk get the same treatment? He has done nothing to this point. Maybe you could go on and on about how bad TT is :lol:

[b bulldog]

Sorry Nutz but Mc Ginn is an excellent reporter and when he isn't picking on AJ, most people in here would agree with that.

[Bretsky]

Good one, I'd expect more but when you have nothing else that you can throw in my face about Hawk, oh well :lol: Brett does deserve his backers for what he has done but why does Hawk get the same treatment? He has done nothing to this point. Maybe you could go on and on about how bad TT is :lol:


You are clearly one of those kind of guys who always has to have the last word regardless of the topic.

So feel free to craftily throw out your I told you so mojo once more so you feel good about yourself and bash whatever you want to bash while you are at it.

Whatever it is I'll pledge to let you have the last word this time

Cheers,
B

[Deputy Nutz]

Sorry Nutz but Mc Ginn is an excellent reporter and when he isn't picking on AJ, most people in here would agree with that.

I think he knows what he is doing, but I kind of think he is blowing a little hard on this one, that is my point. This defense as a whole as been lights out all year and Hawk has been a big part of that, if he was having a poor season I think you would see it more in other defensive numbers other than just AJ's individual numbers.

[b bulldog]

nEVER SAID POOR, JUST AVERAGE AND not more than that. B, you seem to be the same way in regards to having the last word. I know you will read this and probably won't respond but my biweekly rants about Hawk fail in comparison to everything you said about TT and your sig that shows up on every post. Somebody posts some numbers and opinions by some people in the know and he gets blasted. Very thin skin people.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Bulldog what makes you ridiculous is that you quote a fucking journalist that interviewed one scout on the whole thing. The scout wasn't all that flattering of Hawk and I sure haven't been this year.

What's more ridiculous is posting an article that was written before the Chiefs game--a game in which Hawk played very well. Thanks for trying to rain on A.J.' parade. I'm very happy to have him at WLB. He's a good player. You can take your OSU jealousy elsewhere. Here's hoping the Buckeyes kick the Wolverines ass for about the 9th year in a row.

[b bulldog]

With all due repect, they probably will and I'll be here after the loss so you can rub it in. I don't have this jealousy thing for the Bucks, I was rooting for them on Saturday as I was last season against UF. O St is a level above UM and they are in a class with UT, USC, Oklahoma, LSU and Florida. Michigan now is not in that group but please don't let my comments on one player from O St make you think I'm jealous. UW will beat UM if Hart isn't close to 100% and it looks as though he won't be. UM's better days are ahead, Carr is our HC that can't win the rivalry game and always underachieves.

[The Leaper]

Hawk is better than an average LB. McGinn should know that and not write stupid shit. What average LB posts the amount of tackles Hawk had last year? The guy is fairly good in coverage...compared to Poppinga, he looks like Woodson. In fact, because Poppinga is such a liability in coverage, McCarthy is absolutely correct in saying that Hawk is in coverage much of the time. Hawk was on TG several times on Sunday, and didn't give up much when TG was his responsibilty.

Has he played like a #5 overall pick yet? No, he hasn't. However, that draft was pretty weak overall. None of the top 15 picks really blow up anyone's skirt with production at this point.

Vince Young? Please. Don't insult our intelligence by pointing to Young as an example of success.

The guy has a QB rating of 61 and tosses for about a 125 yards a game. He's hardly the reason the Titans are winning. 3 TDs vs. 8 INTs? In the 5 wins Young has played in this year, the Titans defense has given up exactly 10, 14, 13, 9 and 7 points.

In other words...it sure as fucking hell isn't Vince Young that is winning games for the Titans. They are winning IN SPITE of Young.

[Zool]

Who the fuck else makes tackles for the Lions defense? Bailey????

Uhh Paris Lenon? We'll always have Paris, Nutz.

[mmmdk]

Hawk is better than an average LB. McGinn should know that and not write stupid shit. What average LB posts the amount of tackles Hawk had last year? The guy is fairly good in coverage...compared to Poppinga, he looks like Woodson. In fact, because Poppinga is such a liability in coverage, McCarthy is absolutely correct in saying that Hawk is in coverage much of the time. Hawk was on TG several times on Sunday, and didn't give up much when TG was his responsibilty.

Has he played like a #5 overall pick yet? No, he hasn't. However, that draft was pretty weak overall. None of the top 15 picks really blow up anyone's skirt with production at this point.

Vince Young? Please. Don't insult our intelligence by pointing to Young as an example of success.

The guy has a QB rating of 61 and tosses for about a 125 yards a game. He's hardly the reason the Titans are winning. 3 TDs vs. 8 INTs? In the 5 wins Young has played in this year, the Titans defense has given up exactly 10, 14, 13, 9 and 7 points.

In other words...it sure as fucking hell isn't Vince Young that is winning games for the Titans. They are winning IN SPITE of Young.

I agree...not with McGinn though.

Hawk is a fine player and he brings a lot to this Packer team as he's so professional, doesn't quit and doesn't whine - Hawk makes plays. Hawk is what Packers need. I do wish Hawk could be unleashed but apart from Barnett & Hawk; then Packers are toast are LB. Poppinga brings professionalism too but he's, at times, a liability. I like Popps though; not a McKenzie or Walker personality.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hawk was on TG several times on Sunday, and didn't give up much when TG was his responsibilty.

According to the JSO, Hawk covered Gonzalez quite a bit, and was only responsible for 1 reception for 5 yards. He also had a pass deflection late on a good play and the interception. Our run defense was stout again. You can't ask for much more--considering he seldom blitzed.

[Carolina_Packer]

Strongside linebacker
The strongside linebacker (SLB) is often nicknamed "Sam" for purposes of calling a blitz. Since the strong side of the offensive team is the side on which the tight end lines up, the strongside linebacker usually lines up across from the tight end. Oftentimes the strongside linebacker will be called upon to tackle the running back on a play, because the back will be following the tight end's block. He is most often the strongest linebacker: mostly rushing the quarterback or stopping runs, allowing the weakside linebacker to drop into pass coverage. One linebacker who is currently on the high school varsity level has been brilliantly displaying these skills. He goes by the name of the great Doctor Wachter. Killing backs left and right as they come his way.


Weakside linebacker
The weakside linebacker (WLB), or "Will", must be the fastest of the three, because he is often the one called into pass coverage. He is also usually chasing the play from the backside, so the ability to maneuver through traffic is a necessity for Will. Will usually aligns off the line of scrimmage at the same depth as Mike. Due to his position on the weakside, Will does not often have to face large interior linemen one on one unless one is pulling. In coverage, Will often covers the back that attacks his side of the field first in man coverage, while covering the weak flat or hook/curl areas in zone coverage.


Middle/Inside linebacker
Typically the middle linebacker (MLB), or "Mike", is responsible for calling the defensive play and communicating with the coach. The middle linebacker's primary responsibility is to be the lead tackler and shut down the opposition's running attack. In some defenses Mike is responsible for a specific gap, in others he's given more freedom. Due to his position directly over the ball, Mike must be able to effectively shed blocks coming from interior linemen but must also possess the range and speed to cover backs and shut down wide runs. Intense aggressiveness is often a desirable characteristic in a middle linebacker as hesitation of any duration can be fatal at this position. In the 3-4 defense, there are 2 different inside linebackers that occupy the middle spot, therefore the one closer to the strong side is called the "Mike", while the weak side is called "Buck" (BLB) and less often "Jack".

I basically knew the info above, but not in as much detail as it gives. So, in light of what is written above about the positions 1) If the coaches thought that A.J. was out of place (given our existing players), don't you think they would have moved him, or had him play another LB position? 2) The SAM would seem to fit Poppinga best. Can you imagine if he and Hawk were to switch? If Poppinga can't cover, then why would you do it? 3) If the WILL is indeed responsible for coverage, you may be away from the play a good bit, unless the ball comes to your zone or the back runs to your side.

If A.J.'s responsibilities and his game was different at OSU, then he is learning still and is not a finished product. Plus, if he's playing a "less glamourous/high profile" position, then he's not going to get noticed as much, and may seem to disappear. Is that right or wrong?

[Deputy Nutz]

Outside of screen passes and such, Hawk is usually in coverage with the running back. The only running back I can remember making any significant catches out of the backfield was Westbrook in the first game of the season.

[b bulldog]

You all are entitled to think that he is above average but like the NFL personel man, McGinn and myself, we don't agree. He is an average player at the moment and is the 4th or 5th best lb out of that class. McIntosh or Sims is the best imo but Ryans is pretty good also. Greenway and Hawk are very close. Hawk is stuill young and can improve as 56 has done but as of now, that is the way some see it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Who the fuck else makes tackles for the Lions defense? Bailey????

Uhh Paris Lenon? We'll always have Paris, Nutz.

Paris Lenon was a good player in Green Bay, and he's been very good for Detroit. (I don't know his stats, but have heard good things about him.)
Very underrated guy.

[Zool]

Who the fuck else makes tackles for the Lions defense? Bailey????

Uhh Paris Lenon? We'll always have Paris, Nutz.

Paris Lenon was a good player in Green Bay, and he's been very good for Detroit. (I don't know his stats, but have heard good things about him.)
Very underrated guy.

Stole my movie quote thunder.

[The Leaper]

He is an average player at the moment and is the 4th or 5th best lb out of that class.

An average LB doesn't cover Gonzalez the way Hawk did yesterday. An average LB doesn't lead the team in tackles as a rookie.

George Koonce is an average LB. If you think Hawk is average, you aren't a good judge of talent.

I have no problem with people getting on Hawk compared to his aggressiveness in college or that he isn't living up to being a #5 overall pick. Pick on his blitzing skills or ability to shed blocks. Fab...I'm on board with you.

However, to label him "an average LB" is ridiculous, and there is absolutely no evidence that can support that tag IMO.

Ernie Sims? The guy has exactly ONE interception and ONE sack in his entire career to this point. You are going to say he makes a larger impact? You are an idiot if you do.

Chad Greenway? The guy has 50 career tackles...no INTs...no sacks...yet he's clearly better than Hawk to bulldog.

I like Ryans. He's a good player. He's probably similar to Hawk IMO. I wouldn't say he's clearly better.

You are off your nut bulldog. You are writing checks your football IQ can't cash.

[The Leaper]

Paris Lenon was a good player in Green Bay, and he's been very good for Detroit.

Lenon is another you could adequately identify as an average LB. He's assignment reliable, but undersized and doesn't make anything resembling a big play at any point. He's fine behind the wide load that is the Detroit DL...he would be wiped out consistently behind a smaller and less effective DL.

That's average.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't know exactly how he rates relative to other starters. He's a better player than Poppinga. He made a hell of a lot of plays his last season with GB.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't know exactly how he rates relative to other starters. He's a better player than Poppinga. He made a hell of a lot of plays his last season with GB.

Lenon and Poppinga are the poster children for average starting LBs.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Stole my movie quote thunder.

the laughter had already died-down.

[The Leaper]

I don't know exactly how he rates relative to other starters. He's a better player than Poppinga. He made a hell of a lot of plays his last season with GB.

If you consider that there are 32 teams...and each team has 11 starting defenders...that means there are 352 starting defensive positions.

Hawk is currently tied for 44th in the number of tackles on the year according to NFL.com.

Claiming he is "average" means you don't know shit. McGinn knows better, and his article was shoddy journalism.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't know exactly how he rates relative to other starters. He's a better player than Poppinga. He made a hell of a lot of plays his last season with GB.

Lenon and Poppinga are the poster children for average starting LBs.

OK, this is slightly silly (since stats only tell you so much) but FOX Sports sez average unassisted tackles for linebackers is 18, league leader has 64.

Poppinga has 16 unassisted tackles, Lenon has 40.

Guess it is hard to compare SSLB to MLB. I have heard that Lenon is doing really well for Lions (from TV analysts), don't know for sure myself.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't know exactly how he rates relative to other starters. He's a better player than Poppinga. He made a hell of a lot of plays his last season with GB.

If you consider that there are 32 teams...and each team has 11 starting defenders...that means there are 352 starting defensive positions.

Hawk is currently tied for 44th in the number of tackles on the year according to NFL.com.

Claiming he is "average" means you don't know shit. McGinn knows better, and his article was shoddy journalism.

Leaper, I don't have any idea what you are talking about. I have never mentioned Hawk, I was just talking about Lenon. And I can't tell whether you are refering to McGinn or Me. Why, its chaos, out of control.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Guess it is hard to compare SSLB to MLB. I have heard that Lenon is doing really well for Lions (from TV analysts), don't know for sure myself.

You said it yourself. You know what they say about stats being for losers. It would be more fair to compare Poppinga to the Lions SLB, Boss Bailey.

Bailey = 18 tackles
Poppinga = 19 tackles

This is according to Yahoo. Even this doesn't tell the story. Scheme plays a part. The Bates scheme is really catered to the MLB. I think the Tampa 2 is also. Also, if you play on a good defense, you'll likely be on the field for less plays. If you have good players around you, it might hurt or help your stats. If you are always ahead and aren't much of a coverage LB, then you won't be on the field much. A lot of things come into play. I have no opinion on Lenon at this point. I know most scouts thought he was ordinary last year, and the Lions were looking to replace him (Teddy Lehman is never healthy for long either.) I think Poppinga is pretty ordinary. I think Hawk is a good player.

[b bulldog]

LEAPER, i HAD sIMS AND rOCKY AS THE 2 BEST lb'S IN THEIR CLASS, Ryans would be 3 and Hawk or Greenway would be 4 and the other would be 5. The top 3 are clearly better than the other 2 at this point, no room to argue that and if you disagree, your football IQ may need to be checked. :lol: Hawk is great, makes one pic and gets one passed defensed and now he is an allpro caliber player, wink, wink

[b bulldog]

On the positive side, Hawk started slowly last year and turned it on during the second half of the season and maybe he is turning the corner and will do the same this year.

[The Leaper]

LEAPER, i HAD sIMS AND rOCKY AS THE 2 BEST lb'S IN THEIR CLASS, Ryans would be 3 and Hawk or Greenway would be 4 and the other would be 5. The top 3 are clearly better than the other 2 at this point, no room to argue that and if you disagree, your football IQ may need to be checked. :lol: Hawk is great, makes one pic and gets one passed defensed and now he is an allpro caliber player, wink, wink

Again bulldog...HOW SO?

How is Sims a better LB when he produces no turnovers? It would be nice to see him even get ONE pic or pass defensed before you claim he is better than Hawk. He doesn't.

Back up your shit, or admit that you are clueless. Just pointing to McGinn's column and saying "look, someone agrees" is hardly proof that you are right. Sims has ONE INT and ONE SACK in a year and a half. How is that elite? How is that better than Hawk? Explain.

[The Leaper]

Leaper, I don't have any idea what you are talking about. I have never mentioned Hawk, I was just talking about Lenon. And I can't tell whether you are refering to McGinn or Me. Why, its chaos, out of control.

I wasn't really replying to you Harlan...just wanted to give your post a repeat I guess.

[The Leaper]

Guess it is hard to compare SSLB to MLB. I have heard that Lenon is doing really well for Lions (from TV analysts), don't know for sure myself.

He is...because he is protected by one of the biggest DLs in football. Lenon is assignment sure and reliable, but isn't very big and can get pushed around very easily by blockers if they get to him. He's a good fit in Detroit behind that huge DL.

[b bulldog]

leaper, Sims has one forced fumble,one pic this year and 1 sack!!!!! I count that as 2 turnovers and a hell of a lot more tackles, Who is clueless :oops: We'll see at years end when Sims is in Hawaii and Hawk is in his sleep tent in his bedroom. Yeah, Hawk is better than Sims, Ryans and Rocky :oops: Take your Hawk colored glasses off please.

[The Leaper]

leaper, Sims has one forced fumble,one pic this year and 1 sack!!!!! I count that as 2 turnovers and a hell of a lot more tackles, Who is clueless :oops:

So what did he do last year? Hawk was clearly better than Sims last year.

Tackles are overrated. Where did the tackles happen? 10 yards down field? How many times have teams run on Detroit compared to Green Bay? Anyone who gets close to 100 tackles is going a damn good job regardless in my book. Unless Sims gets 3-4 more tackles a game and puts up Ray Lewis type tackle numbers, I don't see how a tackle here or there makes Sims better. The Lions use him as a centerpiece...the Packers don't use Hawk as a centerpiece. Refusing to look at all of the factors...merely reducing it to a couple black and white numbers...isn't a good analysis IMO.

Hawk also has an INT and a forced fumble this year, BTW

[b bulldog]

I know he does but he has 0 sacks and much less tackles and no TFL's. I'm done, the facts won't change your mind so no use of going on with this. Sims will be a probowler before Hawk, enough said.

[HarveyWallbangers]

LEAPER, i HAD sIMS AND rOCKY AS THE 2 BEST lb'S IN THEIR CLASS, Ryans would be 3 and Hawk or Greenway would be 4 and the other would be 5.

Laughable.

Hawk was as good as Ryans last year, and WAY better than Sims. I'll see where Ryans and his defense and Sims and his defense are at at the end of this defense--compared to Hawk and his defense. I know Sims isn't the player Hawk is. Ryans may be. McIntosh is going to be a good one. Greenway isn't in the conversation yet.

I hope you had your fun. Ready for a Buckeye beatdown again? I know, you want it to happen--because getting rid of Carr will cure all of Michigan's ills.

[b bulldog]

Didn't getting rid of your last coach cure most of O St's :lol:

[b bulldog]

Laughable is correct, your crimson and gray colored glasses clouds your vision. Sims is much better than Hawk along with Ryans and Rocky. Greenway and Hawk are pretty close. Both players don't stand out when watching them play but they usually don't make the big mistake also. Hey Harv, we'll see what LB from this crop goes to Hawaii first and we can leave it at that :lol:

[The Leaper]

Sims will be a probowler before Hawk, enough said.

Again, proof of nothing.

Charles Woodson wasn't a Pro Bowler last year even though he deserved it.

[RashanGary]

I like Willis better than any of the young bunch. After that, Hawk is right there with the best of them. He's playing the 8th best scoring defense (probably top 6 after this week) and playing at a very high level.

Tom Brady wasn't putting up monster stats his first few years, he was just doing a great job within the system and winning games yet you never once laid into him for not putting up the numbers of Manning, Culpepper or Palmer.

Hawk is doing a damn fine job. Is it showing up in the box score? Not really, but it's showing up on the score board and that is all we care about. He almost never makes mistakes and he makes his team mates better. He's a winner and one of the best parts of one of the NFL's best defenses.

[b bulldog]

gOOD POINT nICK BUT i NEVER STATED THAT bRADY WAS THE BEST offensive player in that draft or that he is the most NFL ready or that he will be a probowler for the next 10 years or that some NFL personel men thought he was average at best at that moment, can't compare the two at all. Brady was a late round pick, Hawk was 5th overall. I like Beason better than Willis, the LB's from the U are just plain awesome.

[b bulldog]

bRADY HAS DONE WAY MORE THAN ENOUGH to even have to ay anything about him. You said ealier this year that if Brady gets another ring you will give him all the props he deserves,.....

[4and12to12and4]

Why don't we all agree on the fact that the Dolphins made one of the worst picks ever with Ginn when Brady was there, oh, wait, even worse, Adrian Peterson was there. At least we got an above average LB who could still end up being a great LB in time. The Dolphins REALLY fucked up, lets just pick on them for a while and enjoy how good our defense is so far this year.

Where's the love?? 8-)

[RashanGary]

No, the point is very relevant. Sometimes the greatest players do the most to help their team by being unsung. Hawk is doing a really good job, he brings accountablity and disapline to the whole defense. There is no measure for some things. You don't want to see it, you never did, but Hawk is a damn fine player and I still believe he'll be a probowl linebacker multiple times.

Willis is a beast though. The only beast of the young LB's you listed. I'd take Willis over any of them.

[b bulldog]

Nick your wrong and your totally biased as some could say likewise for me but Hawk is an average player at this time. I'd take Beason, Willis, Rocky, Ryans, Sims and Wembly over Hawk. Hawk can show me on the field, hopefully I won't have to wait to long. :lol:

[RashanGary]

Nick your wrong and your totally biased as some could say likewise for me but Hawk is an average player at this time. I'd take Beason, Willis, Rocky, Ryans, Sims and Wembly over Hawk. Hawk can show me on the field, hopefully I won't have to wait to long. :lol:

Just like you being wrong on just about everything else you say, you'll be proven wrong on this over time too. Enjoy your moment in the sun though, you don't get many of them.

[retailguy]

Why don't we all agree on the fact that the Dolphins made one of the worst picks ever with Ginn when Brady was there, oh, wait, even worse, Adrian Peterson was there. At least we got an above average LB who could still end up being a great LB in time. The Dolphins REALLY fucked up, lets just pick on them for a while and enjoy how good our defense is so far this year.

Where's the love?? 8-)


Off the top of my head.... Ginn was the 9th pick and peterson went 7th. I don't think Miami was wrong by passing on Brady Quinn. Ginn has good potential and Beck could also be special... Poor Brady.... Where the hell did Derek Anderson come from? :shock: Wow.

[4and12to12and4]

Why don't we all agree on the fact that the Dolphins made one of the worst picks ever with Ginn when Brady was there, oh, wait, even worse, Adrian Peterson was there. At least we got an above average LB who could still end up being a great LB in time. The Dolphins REALLY fucked up, lets just pick on them for a while and enjoy how good our defense is so far this year.

Where's the love?? 8-)

Did you hear me? Chill out, we're 7-1 and have a very good LB group. Hawk and Poppinga are underrated if you ask me. Reread my earlier post and cheer the fuck up, or go drink some Captain. :P

[esoxx]

Hawk's a decent player but he's woefully miscast in this over scheme. If he were at MLB he would be a much better player, turning loose his nastiness, speed and desire.
My biggest gripe is why the hell would you draft only the 2nd top 5 pick at LB since 1996 to have him be a roleplayer and not the focal point of the D??? That's my beef.
I expect bigger and better things from Hawk going forward. But until Barnett or this over scheme changes (and I see neither happening soon), not much will with his game. And that's a shame and somewhat of a waste.

[b bulldog]

Nick, your better than that :lol:

[Freak Out]

Hawk's a decent player but he's woefully miscast in this over scheme. If he were at MLB he would be a much better player, turning loose his nastiness, speed and desire.
My biggest gripe is why the hell would you draft only the 2nd top 5 pick at LB since 1996 to have him be a roleplayer and not the focal point of the D??? That's my beef.
I expect bigger and better things from Hawk going forward. But until Barnett or this over scheme changes (and I see neither happening soon), not much will with his game. And that's a shame and somewhat of a waste.

This is spot on....he is miscast and undoubtedly would show a lot more if he was playing the middle but we may never see that happen. It could be worse though...

[Noodle]

I'm not sure I buy the miscast bit. Hawk was a Will LB at OSU, and he's a Will at GB. Will's get lots of opportunities to make plays, if they can get off blocks, flow to the play, and explode through gaps, especially given all the backside cut running that RBs do.

No doubt the Packer D is designed to have the Mike be the major stat getter, but a strong and talented Will is going to have lots of chances. And the miscast tag doesn't explain why Hawk hasn't been more effective with his blitzing/pass rushing.

In the end, he's a second year player. I think he's doing fine, and I think he's going to play even better with more experience. I say we're lucky to have him and Barnett on the field at the same time. Remember, it's about winning, not about getting Hawk some damn stats.

[b bulldog]

Good post noodle

[Carolina_Packer]

Why don't we all agree on the fact that the Dolphins made one of the worst picks ever with Ginn when Brady was there, oh, wait, even worse, Adrian Peterson was there. At least we got an above average LB who could still end up being a great LB in time. The Dolphins REALLY fucked up, lets just pick on them for a while and enjoy how good our defense is so far this year.

Where's the love?? 8-)


Off the top of my head.... Ginn was the 9th pick and peterson went 7th. I don't think Miami was wrong by passing on Brady Quinn. Ginn has good potential and Beck could also be special... Poor Brady.... Where the hell did Derek Anderson come from? :shock: Wow.

Baltimore Ravens waived him and tried to stash him on their practice squad, and Phil Savage, the GM of the Cleveland Browns, who helped bring Anderson to Baltimore when he was in the front office as an assistant, got him for a $100 waiver fee! Oregon Packer Fan had some good inside info on Anderson since he played college ball there (can't recall the post).

I just happened to meet Phil Savage when he was with Brian Billick and Ozzie Newsome at the Oakland Airport. I was in Phoenix in March 2003 catching some Spring Training baseball and flew from there to Oakland to meet my wife in San Fran for a vacation. I saw Billick and Co. in First Class and recognized him right away, but didn't say anything. I met Savage at the baggage claim (didn't know who he was then), but when I found out he was with the Ravens, I asked him what they were doing in Oakland. He said they were there to scout Kyle Boller. He was a really nice guy, very personable, and was willing to talk football. It was cool. It's kinda fun to see him become an NFL GM. I wish him well in Cleveland. I bet it's a difficult, demanding, fun job.

[Partial]

Phil Savage is the best talent recruiter in the NFL. Has been for years. He was the brains that got Ozzie Newsome a lot of credit.

[b bulldog]

Agree but Savage and management don't see I to I and if the they would have faltered this season, he most likely would have been gone. Scott Pioli in Pat land is very good also.

[cpk1994]

I just wish Hawk was the featured linebacker in this over scheme that the Packers run, then these stats wouldn't even be close. Although I have to agree that Hawk has been a slight underperformer this year, but he isn't attacking the ball like he did so well at Ohio St. Grant it, the NFL isn't Ohio St, but Hawk was a really special player at Ohio St and he has shown that same ability in small stretches.Considering what Ohio State pays their players, they are more like the NFL than you think. :lol:

[the_idle_threat]

[I]t's about winning, not about getting Hawk some damn stats.

QFT

It really doesn't matter whether Hawk has the most tackles or a Pro Bowl berth. It matters whether he is contributing to a good and successful defense.

At the halfway point, according to NFL.com, the Packers are ranked 11th in total defense (yards per game) and 7th in scoring defense (points per game). Even if Hawk has been quiet about it, he's contributed to that achievement.

Only Rocky McIntosh's Washington defense is close to these rankings: it's 10th in total defense and 15th in scoring defense.

Chad Greenway's Vikings are adequate, ranking 22nd in total defense, and 10th in scoring defense.

Demeco Ryans' Texans are below average: 15th in total defense, and 26th in scoring defense.

Ernie Sims' Lions are simply woeful: 28th in total defense and 23rd in scoring defense.

Go ahead and tell me, bulldog, that these guys are better than Hawk, but I'll take Hawk and the results he has brought over any of them.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Mario Williams has 18 measly tackles and 4 sacks on the 26th ranked scoring defense in the NFL. Vince Young has been miserable in year two. He averages 139 passing yards/game with 4 TDs and 10 interceptions. The Titans are winning despite him. Talk about sophomore disappointments.