Kurt Schotenheimer.. why is he still here?

[Pacopete4]

His stats make me wonder why the hell this guy still has a job..


KC: 99 D-coordinator
22 tds allowed, 13th ranked
15 int's, 8th ranked
3409 yds allowed, 23 ranked

KC: 2000, D-coordinator
25 tds allowed, 23rd ranked
15 ints, 21st ranked
3737 yds allowed, 22 ranked

WAS: 2001, D-coordinator
19 tds allowed, 13th ranked
23 ints, 5th ranked
3116 yds allowed, 3rd ranked

DET: 2002, D-coordinator
27 tds allowed, 29th ranked
10 ints, 29th ranked
4404 yds, 31st ranked

DET: 2003, D-coordinator
26 tds allowed, 29th ranked
15 ints, 17th ranked
3760, 29th ranked

GB: 2004, D-Backs coach
33 tds allowed, 32nd ranked
8 ints, 31st ranked
3943 yds allowed, 25th ranked

STL: 2005, Secondary coach
26 tds, 30th ranked
13 ints, 24th ranked
3619 yds, 22nd ranked

GB: 2006, Secondary coach
25 tds, 27th ranked
23 ints, 3rd ranked
3646 yds, 23rd ranked

SO FAR
GB: 2007, Secondary coach
12 tds, 19th ranked
8 ints, 15th ranked
1900 yds, 19th ranked



where ever this guy is.. there is not a good pass defense.. please can we cut the ties with this guy because whatever he is teaching, philosophy or technique is NOT WORKING... ANYWHERE

[The Leaper]

I've been wanting the worthless turd to be dismissed from day one. He's incompetant...and Bigby and Collins won't develop into anything as long as he is around.

[CaliforniaCheez]

McCarthy was once hired by his brother and Kurt was his immediate boss.

There is some loyalty issues that would have coveniently for all been fixed if Marty had hired Kurt to replace Wade Phillips.

It got Marty fired.

We are stuck until Marty gets a job.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Hiring Kurt got Mike McKenzie upset and led to his leaving and the arrival of Ahmad Carroll.

Kurt is well known in the league for the wrong reasons.

I have sympathy for McKenzie getting upset. It could have been handled better but Kurt was fired by the Packers after one year for a reason.

[Carolina_Packer]

McCarthy was once hired by his brother and Kurt was his immediate boss.

There is some loyalty issues that would have coveniently for all been fixed if Marty had hired Kurt to replace Wade Phillips.

It got Marty fired.

We are stuck until Marty gets a job.

So, you really think it was cronyism that made McCarthy hire Schottenheimer? If he stunk on ice, wouldn't McCarthy know that?

As for the overall records of the teams he has coached for:

In 1999 and 2000 the Chiefs were 9-7 and 7-9 respectively. That's pretty average. You never know if it was just average players. They were in the first of two years of Gunther ball there, and that experiment didn't really work out.

In 2001, Marty Schottenheimer's only season in DC, they were 8-8; again, average. Marty was not really given much of a chance, so by default Kurt was not either.

Detroit 2002 and 2003, Mornhinweg and Mariucci as respective coaches. Both teams sucked mightily.

Green Bay 2004, Mike Sherman was in the middle of his revolving door of D-Coordinators, because you can't fire all the players after all. The D wasn't really any good until Bates came in 2005, but the offense was decimated.

Rams 2005, the Rams were 8-8 in 2004 and slipping in defense and 2005 was disaster as they had Martz out and Vitt in sometimes as coach and a terrible defense. Did they have anything on defense?

Packers 2006, Marquand Manuel, Ahmad Carroll...do I have to go on?

Packers 2007, 5th in points allowed, 9th in yards allowed, so there's some improvement.

This guy has probably never owned much property since he was always moving. Such is the life of an assistant coach in the NFL. He certainly wasn't in control of the situations he was hired into, many of them sucky. If you were decent at what you did for a living, but were never able to prove it because of a series of bad job opportunities, you'd call it bad luck. If the guy stunk on ice, why did he keep getting hired? I love my brother, but if he couldn't coach and I was the head coach, I wouldn't hire him just to keep him from being hurt. Gunther Cunningham didn't have to hire him. Marty Mornhinweg didn't have to hire him and Mariucci didn't have to keep him, but they did. Sherman mis-handled the D-Coordinator situation after Donatell was let go, hiring Slowik (yuck). Now that he's back with the Packers, he's getting time to do what he needs to do, and has some better talent to work with. It's gotta be hard to walk into a bunch of short-term situations, sometimes being flushed out with the coaching staff when they get turned over and then having to scramble to find a job wherever you can. Sometimes beggers can't be choosers. No coach is going to be able to do jack if they don't get time to show what they can do. He's in his second year in GB and there has been defensive improvement. If there was complete mutiny against Schottenheimer, why wouldn't that show on the field? I give McCarthy the benefit of the doubt since he's 7-1 and pressing the right buttons.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I've wanted Kurt gone, but to say we don't have a good pass defense this year is pretty silly.

We allow only 57.6 completion %--which is third best in the NFL. 12/8 TD/int rate isn't bad. We don't blitz much, so the fact we are in the top 7 in sacks speaks to the coverage we are getting. They go hand in hand, but we've seen a lot of coverage sacks. Personally, I don't really care about pass yards/game? We've given up the 13th most yards, but only 8 teams have had as many pass attempts on them. Our yards/attempt is solid. Our 3rd down defense is 2nd best in the NFL--which means we are playing exceptional pass defense on 3rd downs.

[Rastak]

I've wanted Kurt gone, but to say we don't have a good pass defense this year is pretty silly.

We allow only 57.6 completion %--which is third best in the NFL. 12/8 TD/int rate isn't bad. We don't blitz much, so the fact we are in the top 7 in sacks speaks to the coverage we are getting. They go hand in hand, but we've seen a lot of coverage sacks. Personally, I don't really care about pass yards/game? We've given up the 13th most yards, but only 8 teams have had as many pass attempts on them. Our yards/attempt is solid. Our 3rd down defense is 2nd best in the NFL--which means we are playing exceptional pass defense on 3rd downs.


You sound like me last year talking about the Vikes.

Yards do not tell all.......

I really like Harris and Woodson.

edit: Not comparing the two!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ras,

And I've been consistent on that. I've stated many times that I didn't think the Vikings pass defense was bad as people thought last year. I thought until the Chargers game they had REALLY regressed this year though.

[Rastak]

Ras,

And I've been consistent on that. I've stated many times that I didn't think the Vikings pass defense was bad as people thought last year. I thought until the Chargers game they had REALLY regressed this year though.


I agree with you too. It's been bad until last week.

[Merlin]

Schottenheimer has never had any success at any level. I don't know why he is still with the team but I would speculate it has to do with some kind of payback. Last year, Lionel Washington was given a larger role with the secondary about mid-season and Kurt was relegated to the sky box. I don't know what the arrangement is this year but I do know that Lionel Washington is a very good DB coach and I suspect he is spending his time working with our young second string secondary while our veterans take care of themselves. I am also almost certain someone has told Kurt to leave Harris, Woodson, Bigby, and Collins alone. They started last season playing like KS was coaching them, since then they seem to be playing much better. As far as Manual goes, from the rumors I heard over the past year and some since he was let go, none of the DB's trusted him back there.

[The Leaper]

I've wanted Kurt gone, but to say we don't have a good pass defense this year is pretty silly.

The evidence of Kurt's destructive abilities lies in the fact that Bigby continues to make boneheaded decision after boneheaded decision in coverage, with little improvement. Kurt is worthless...and the proof is in the lack of improvement in the young DBs across the board in recent years (Bush, Dendy, Carroll, Underwood, Collins, etc.)

Kurt isn't going to impact established vets like Harris or Woodson, who know what they are doing already. That is why our pass defense this year doesn't look horrific.

[Tarlam!]

I think we need to distinguish between developing youngsters and teaching the type of secondary to play our type of defense. We play "man", and we do that as one of the very few teams left in the league.

It seems we do it pretty good, too. In fact, USA Today had two pages on it week 6. Is Schottie the "Guy" for bump'n'run? Experts on this forum may wanna comment.

I have to agree with anyone who senses our developing DBs are "hitting the wall". From what I read, TT has acquired some pretty special physical talents in the secondary. Young and hungry, but they don't seem to be peaking.

Just an observation from a sports idiot.

[Zool]

Its very clear to me at this point that Shittenheimer has compromising pics of Harlan that he's using as blackmail. Once Harlan retires, his replacement will let the axe fall.

[Creepy]

KS has stunk from first day. He has players playing off the ball. He can't tell Harris or Woodson this because they were brought in to be contact DBs. Now look at before GB had Woodson. CBs played off the ball and receivers were open before DL could get near a QB.

Now the CBs play up and they challeneg atthe line, so where do the QBs throw? In the middle. How many time did Gonzales come off the line clean on Sunday. He was never bumped atthe line by a DL, LB or a safety, he was allowed toi run free and mnake catches.

This is the KS way of playing DB. he knows he can't touch Woodson or harris so that leaves the safeties and LBs. Maybe if he would allow the LBs & Safeties to smack the slot receiver or TE, they wouldn't ge open before the DL got to them. The soft play by the safeties and LBs is a direct rersult of KS approach to pass defense.

KS should go and let washington take over. IMHO, he has waited long eneough and the DBs need to be more aggressive.

watch this week while the safeties will be playing off the TE and the slot receiver and the Vikings will get soem easy 1st downs. Against the Vikes this may not be much of a problem, but when GB goes to Detroit, they are going to have to do more than sit back and wait for them to run by or near them.

[Carolina_Packer]

KS has stunk from first day. He has players playing off the ball. He can't tell Harris or Woodson this because they were brought in to be contact DBs. Now look at before GB had Woodson. CBs played off the ball and receivers were open before DL could get near a QB.

Now the CBs play up and they challeneg atthe line, so where do the QBs throw? In the middle. How many time did Gonzales come off the line clean on Sunday. He was never bumped atthe line by a DL, LB or a safety, he was allowed toi run free and mnake catches.

This is the KS way of playing DB. he knows he can't touch Woodson or harris so that leaves the safeties and LBs. Maybe if he would allow the LBs & Safeties to smack the slot receiver or TE, they wouldn't ge open before the DL got to them. The soft play by the safeties and LBs is a direct rersult of KS approach to pass defense.

KS should go and let washington take over. IMHO, he has waited long eneough and the DBs need to be more aggressive.

watch this week while the safeties will be playing off the TE and the slot receiver and the Vikings will get soem easy 1st downs. Against the Vikes this may not be much of a problem, but when GB goes to Detroit, they are going to have to do more than sit back and wait for them to run by or near them.

Doesn't Pop have initial responsibility for jamming the TE at the line?

[3irty1]

I say give him the boot if it means Leroy Butler gets his spot :)

[Creepy]

That's tehe problem, it doesn't matter which side the TE or slot receiver lines up on, they are allowed to come off without a single bump. You can't hit on every play, but when the TE is killing you and you need to give the DL an extra .5 seconds, hit the friggin TE.

The Packers haven't hit a TE all year and the reality is it has been TEs killing them in each game. This goes back to last year and any year that KS is DB coach. His philosophy and id doen't work.

Go back and look at 3d and 7+, the LBs are nowhere nearthe line. If only somebody would pretend to be Wayne Simmons and nail a TE coming off the line.

[Carolina_Packer]

That's tehe problem, it doesn't matter which side the TE or slot receiver lines up on, they are allowed to come off without a single bump. You can't hit on every play, but when the TE is killing you and you need to give the DL an extra .5 seconds, hit the friggin TE.

The Packers haven't hit a TE all year and the reality is it has been TEs killing them in each game. This goes back to last year and any year that KS is DB coach. His philosophy and id doen't work.

Go back and look at 3d and 7+, the LBs are nowhere nearthe line. If only somebody would pretend to be Wayne Simmons and nail a TE coming off the line.

Is this too black and white? MM who would certainly have spotted this trend as you have would either recognize this as a coaching defficiency on KS's part and talk to him about it, OR as something they constantly harp on the players about, but somehow the players just keep messing up. Which one is it? Again, help my lack of understanding of schemes...isn't the SAM linebacker supposed to put the jam on the TE coming off the line and not let him release cleanly? If that is the case, then how is that KS's fault? I'm not challenging, just wondering. So, if the SAM is not getting into the TE at the line, and he releases, then I assume the Strong Safety then has responsiblity and I think we've seen what's happened to Bigby getting toasted several times.

So, is this indeed the case where Pop is not getting a jam on the TE and then TE is getting cleanly into an open spot and sitting down? Or, is Pop getting his jam but Bigby is still getting beat? I don't get to see games in that kind of detail.

[Pacopete4]

hawk has been on a lot of the TE's as well.. the whole SAM LB is out the door.. its the system that is being used, not the players.. Kurt has to go