Walker: Thompson drove me from Green Bay

[GBRulz]

Will this kid ever learn to keep his mouth shut?

http://greenbaypressgazette.packersnews.com/archives/news/pack_25973043.shtml

[MJZiggy]

I don't know that he'll ever learn. I do sense that eventually his mouth will come 'round and bite him in the butt...

[Chubbyhubby]

Walker is just a spoiled brat! Trying to bribe the player from MFLE to get his jersey 84 how ridiculous. He stated he didn't like the policy that management doesn't renegociate (sp) until he has 1 year remaining. He knew that and he choose to be a baby about it. PATHETIC!

[Chubbyhubby]

I don't know that he'll ever learn. I do sense that eventually his mouth will come 'round and bite him in the butt...

agreed.. If Walker has a bad year or if he re injuries himself look for Denver to cut ties with him... Sooner than later.

[billy_oliver880]

You know what...I am glad TT said no. You can't cave into every little need from a player. Otherwise everyone will be wanting a new contract. Walker is a huge pain in the ass.

[Guiness]

Wow - he had to use what has become my most hated word. Respect Why do football player insist on trotting that word out, when they seem to have little clue as to its meaning. It makes me cringe every time I hear it, and tells me the player is a baby.

You never claim or demand respect. It is given to you.

I wonder what happens as the season progresses, and he's not getting the long balls, and is doing a lot of blocking.

Denver likes their running attack, and doesn't go vertical often. Will JW give a 'get me the damn ball' tirade?

[wist43]

In general, I agree with Walker... TT did drive him out of Green Bay.

As most of you know, I've advocated from the last off season that TT should have approached Walker and his agent and been proactive in getting Walker locked up long term.

Shanahan realized his worth, and Walker got his contract... it should been with the Packers.

Regardless of how you guys feel about how Walker has handled the situation, the fact remains that he is a top flight talent, who is now a FORMER PACKER.

I have a lot of respect for Mike Shanahan... he sees what I see. To me, TT's attitude toward Walker was inexplicable.

[RashanGary]

I disagree. You have to consider what the ramifications that go along with paying guys before their contracts are up.

BTW, Denver did not pay him before his contract is up. He has to play one more year just like he would have in GB to get his big payday. He has to prove he's worth it. Just like in GB, Walker is playing his last year for peanuts. The difference is, Walker thought he could get away with it here and he realizes that it just doens't work now so he's taking it like a champ in the next town.

Thompson made the right choice IMO. I don't think you can give money before contracts are up. Denver is smart, they didn't either.

[The Leaper]

I have a lot of respect for Mike Shanahan... he sees what I see. To me, TT's attitude toward Walker was inexplicable.

Maybe he sees the talent...but Shanahan is taking a massive risk. Walker likely will not be at 100% this season, and will be trying to integrate himself with a new team and system. It is going to be hard to determine exactly whether or not Walker is worth the massive contract he just signed that is due to reward Walker after 2006. But that is exactly the corner Shanahan has painted himself into. Very few WRs maintain an elite level of play over the long haul...so Walker has a lot to prove, and a short time to do it.

I think Thompson came out much better in this deal overall. Sure, I would have wished he had been more proactive toward keeping an elite WR talent in Green Bay. However...considering all the factors involved at this point, Denver gave us a pretty fat draft choice in a deep draft for a guy who remains a bit of an enigma and was busting the door down to get out of Green Bay. Walker may be an elite talent in terms of athleticism, but he isn't a 5 tool receiver. There are 8-10 guys I would easily put ahead of Walker on my wish list...and another 6-8 guys who probably are on the same level as Walker. You don't NEED an elite WR to win a Super Bowl...so losing Walker isn't a massive setback as long as we got reasonable value in return. If he had walked via free agency and we got a supplemental 5th round pick for losing him, then I would be far less happy with the outcome.

[MateoInMex]

I'm too lazy to come up with another point of view, so I will just paste what I posted in another forum:

Take whatever Javon Walker said with a a grain of salt. This is the same guy who tried to hide the fact he crashed a jetski in Ft. Lauderdale because of clauses in his contract.

I am supposed to take this guy's word on how the tone of "NO" came out of a GM's mouth?

Yea, I really believe Javon nonchalantly walked up to TT after smearing his contract campaign through the media... and said, "let's just talk about it."

Wolverines also make good house pets.


Guiness makes a good point; cringing everytime athletes use the word "respect". Using that word in a sentence: I respectfully think Javon Walker is a moron.

He blasted soldiers in Iraq who make $18,000, and Walker compared how a WR risks his life while making 7.5 million for 1 good year in the process. How is this TT's fault again?

What you are hearing from Javon is basic PR clean-up after a disatrous endorsement year for him in Green Bay. Pointing the blame at someone like a 3-year old isn't good PR in my opinion, but then again Javon is the sharpest tool in the shed.

Denver Bronco fans aren't stupid, and this guy's act will tire in Colorado very quickly. He hasn't even thrown on his jersey and he's already blaming other people!!! I'm sure the o-line and Plummer can't wait to have this character's character in the huddle.

[swede]

Leaper,

I am so psyched to see you join us on PR!

It's posts like this that always made me a big fan of yours.

When you read the fine print on JWalk's deal he has to earn every penny along the way. No free cash just to show we love you. I would bet that if JW could have shut up, gotten healthy and played in 2006 like he did in 2004 he would have gotten more money from GB than he will end up getting from Denver.

[swede]

Props to you also Mateo.

It's not hating for hating's sake. You just have to throw up your hands about what a screw-up Javon seems to be. I will say that he's lucky to have landed with a good team anyway.

[MadtownPacker]

The traitor is only a few more dumbass remarks away from owens-like status.

Oh walker why are you testing the balance of Kharma? You got what you wanted, why not just be happy?

[mraynrand]

Just be thankful Walker is no longer the Packer's problem. The real concern is that, although his kind are in the minority of NFL players, they are becoming more common. It's likely this pattern will repeat itself more frequently than we care to see. The real miserable thing about Walker and a lot of other NFL prima donnas is that people keep shoving microphones in their faces. These guys are concrete block stupid - of the 300,000,000 people in the United States, probably about 4 or 5 are less intelligent and intelligible than Javon Wonderlic.

[Guiness]

I disagree. You have to consider what the ramifications that go along with paying guys before their contracts are up.

BTW, Denver did not pay him before his contract is up. He has to play one more year just like he would have in GB to get his big payday. He has to prove he's worth it. Just like in GB, Walker is playing his last year for peanuts. The difference is, Walker thought he could get away with it here and he realizes that it just doens't work now so he's taking it like a champ in the next town.

Thompson made the right choice IMO. I don't think you can give money before contracts are up. Denver is smart, they didn't either.

I haven't seen good details on his contract yet. How much will he take home in year 1? I saw one thing that said he will still get $2.5mil this year!

If what you are saying is correct (that he has to get through this year to get big money) then you're probably right. JW realized he wouldn't get it anywhere this year, but wanted to leave GB in order to save face after lipping off.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

After reading the article, all I can say is:

FUCK YOU THOMPSON!!! YOU MOTHERFUCKING GAY GM. WALKER MERELY WANTED TO TALK BUT BECAUSE HE ISNT A GUY YOU DRAFTED YOU SAID FUCK NO! MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU KNOW THAT SHERMAN THE GREAT HAD TO TRADE UP TO GET JWALK, TO UPGRADE a RECIEVER CROP THAT WAS FUCKING PEDESTAL WITH FREEMAN AND SCHROEDER? DO YOU KNOW THAT WALKER WAS THE BEST DAMN WR IN THE FUCKING NFC NORTH NOW THAT MOSS IS GONE. DO YOU KNOW THAT WALKER IS AN ELITE WR?

FUCK YOU, YOU HAVE GONE AND DONE DISMANTLED A TOP 3 OFFENSE. YOU ARE IN LOVE WITH WITH MEDIOCRE; IN LOVE WITH 4-12; IN LOVE WITH TOP 5 DRAFT PICKS; IN LOVE WITH ARTURO FREEMAN. I HOPE YOU ARE HAPPY, MOTHERFUCKER. FUCK YOU!!!!!

:evil: :evil: :evil:

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Now that ive claimed down, please accept my sincere apology in the event that the above post offended you. I was so mad, after learning that thompson fucked up once again (also with Mike Wahle, Sharper, Rivera, etc remember) i had relieve my anger through here.

[mraynrand]

APB gets his bear.


http://ak.imgfarm.com/images/ap/HYBRID_BEAR.sff_NY121_20060510210104.jpg

[jack's smirking revenge]

Just be thankful Walker is no longer the Packer's problem. The real concern is that, although his kind are in the minority of NFL players, they are becoming more common. It's likely this pattern will repeat itself more frequently than we care to see. The real miserable thing about Walker and a lot of other NFL prima donnas is that people keep shoving microphones in their faces. These guys are concrete block stupid - of the 300,000,000 people in the United States, probably about 4 or 5 are less intelligent and intelligible than Javon Wonderlic.

I agree with you mraynrand. My worry isn't so much about Javon, but the pattern than is beginning to emerge. Javon is a talented player. A risk, for sure because of his injuries, but talented. The Packers called his bet and decided to go with fresh legs. But, this isn't the last time we'll see this scenario--contracts requsted to be torn up because of one year of performance. At this rate, every Pro Bowl player can ask for a renegotiation every time they reach that mark.

Javon had ONE good year. Just one. And he was asking for a new contract on the heels of a major injury. I give props to TT for gambling. It may not pay off, but at least he took a stand and the Packers got some decent players out of the deal. Who knows? Two or three years from now we may have a couple Pro Bowl players out of that one Javon Walker deal...

tyler

[BooHoo]

Let's see how Walker does over the next two years before we say he is a super star.

[pbmax]

The details on his contract are that his last year of the rookie deal is left intact. He already had a $1 million roster bonus due in the orig contract, so it is unclear if he gets any new money this year.

He is due an option bonus of $10 mil in 2007 and $5 mil in 2008. It is entirely possible he will never see this money.

There is a salary cap webpage that tracks current figures and I'd be curious to know what the Broncos situation is for next year.

Option and roster bonuses are how the Redskins keep signing fake mega-deals and then miraculously get back under the cap. This might be real money but it could easily be a face saving extension that will never come to pass.

[wist43]

Shanahan isn't going to give up a 2nd round pick, and then watch Walker walk (no pun intended) after one year... If they have to restructure the contract after this year or next, I'm sure they'll get it done.

Walker may not be 100% this year, but his injury is healing well according to reports, and he is a very talented player; so, I expect him to be back among the elite in the league in short period of time... Denver is also an excellent place for him to land - Cutler to Walker could be a potent combo for many years to come.

I think too many of you are allowing emotion to cloud your view of the Walker situation. If you guys want to be bitter about something, you should be bitter that TT all but ran the guy out of town. Walker is a hell of a talent - and now that talent is going to work for another team. It could be a very long time before the Packers land another WR with Walkers talent.

[Rastak]

Shanahan isn't going to give up a 2nd round pick, and then watch Walker walk (no pun intended) after one year...

Probably not but he was willing to completely throw away a 3rd rounder last year on that knucklehead Maurice Clarett.

[jack's smirking revenge]

I think too many of you are allowing emotion to cloud your view of the Walker situation. If you guys want to be bitter about something, you should be bitter that TT all but ran the guy out of town. Walker is a hell of a talent - and now that talent is going to work for another team. It could be a very long time before the Packers land another WR with Walkers talent.

I typically agree with you wist, but I have to disagree here. One Pro Bowl does not a "hell of a talent" make. Didn't Desmond Howard made it to the Pro Bowl once as a Packer? I'll agree that JWalk has potential to be great, but he's far from there after one awesome year.

Who knows? The QB shuffling--between Plummer and Culter--and a focus on the run in Brocoland could make for a frustrating scenario for Walk.

DD has been a solid 1,000 yd receiver year-in and year-out, without the frills and attitude of self-important JWalk. Jennings could easily be the next JWalk--we just have to see him perform on the field. It took JWalk years to live up to his 1st round draft pick potential.

tyler

[GBRulz]

Leaper, you were one of JW's biggest supporters for a new contract in GB. What happened that you changed your mind?

[RashanGary]

Walker was pissed because TT wouldn't pay him up front. Now he's in Denver adn they're not paying him up front either.

I think it boils down to Walker thinking T.T. didn't respect him when really T.T. was doign what all G.M.'s do.

Maybe Sherman told him he would get paid I don't know...Whatever the case, I think it will be better now that Thompson set a good precidnet.

I think Javon is a great talent but the salary cap is the great equalizer and by giving Walker more money, Thompson would have been opening the door for serious trouble. There are more underpaid players than Walker. If we paid them all, we woudln't have anything left over for anyone else.

While I understand losing Walker was a major blow becuase I considered him one of the top 5 WR's in the game, I also recognize the irreparable damage that would haunt GB for years to come had he paid him ahead of schedule.

In the end, a player like Walker or T.O. who think they can force the $$ as opposed to living out their contract are best let go. Sure we woudl be better with him but we would be worse when Driver, Tauscher, Barnett and others came kncokign on the door for an early payday. If we pay all those guys what they are worth do you think we'd have extra $$ for Woodson, Kamp, ect.....In the end it was a major loss but considering teh alternative ti was a pretty cheap price to pay.

On the bright side, only a slight few agents and players aer crazy enough to think they can do this type of thing and it's pretty unlikely that they will try agina with GB. I think everyone saw what happened. While GB lost, Walker did not really win. He's still not getting paid like he wanted and now he probably cost himself quite a bit of money. He might make top 5 salary but with the new higher cap top 5 will look like top 20 in a couple of years. Had Walker stayed in GB and done right he would have made more.

Any player who's self destructive enough to do what Walker just did is probably best off on another team anyway. Talent wise it is a loss but when you weigh out the options it really wasn't much of a choice.

[GBRulz]

and who says the Wonderlich scores don't mean anything?? :mrgreen:

I applaud the way TT handled the situation. I am happy with a 2nd round pick from it, along with getting the cancer out of the locker room.

[Cobra Kai]

Found TT's response to JW's comment's in an CNNSI article about McKenzie possibly headed to the Texans. Its pretty generic, though I have a feeling he held back a little in what he really thought of JW....


Thompson also said he was aware of recent comments from former Packers wide receiver Javon Walker, whom Thompson traded for a second-round pick in the NFL draft April 29.

"He seems to be happy in Denver," Thompson said. "Wasn't too complimentary of me, though."

Walker told reporters Wednesday he didn't ask to be traded out of Green Bay because of past criticism from Brett Favre. Instead, Walker said his bigger problem was with Thompson, who refused to renegotiate his contract because he had two years left on the deal.

"I said, 'Let's just talk about it,"' Walker said. "It was just a flat-out, disrespectful 'No."'

Thompson said he didn't take Walker's comments personally.

"For whatever reason, it didn't work out here like he wanted it to," Thompson said.

For an NFL general manager, disagreements with players are part of the job.

"Everybody wants everybody to like them. That's just the nature of the beast," Thompson said. "At the same time, situations are going to come up."

[jack's smirking revenge]

Interesting comments Cobra! Welcome to Packer Rats!

tyler

[MJZiggy]

Thanks, Cobra. TT is looking like the bigger man here, unwilling to bash someone who went on the attack.

[Bossman641]

TO UPGRADE a RECIEVER CROP THAT WAS FUCKING PEDESTAL WITH FREEMAN AND SCHROEDER?


Do you mean pedestrian?

[Guiness]

Looks more and more like JW shot his mouth off, and left town to save face.

He didn't get a renegotiation, he got an extension. He still plays for the $2.5mil he had said was unacceptable. Did he get ANY more guaranteed money?

I guess he found out that every GM in the league was going to 'disrespect' him

[Scott Campbell]

I'm in Denver today, and listened to a live 20 minute radio interview with Javon. He again brought up problems he had with other team members besides Favre, even joking that he wasn't aware that those guys had desk jobs.

He said he understood the business side of not wanting to pay him more money at the time, and made it sound more like the bad chemistry between him and his team mates was the primary reason behind his position. He used the word disrespect a lot.

[MadtownPacker]

walker talking about Favre giving him a chance to make plays sounds like a hint to Plummer. Good luck Jake, better give the crybaby his ball or he will hold out.

[mraynrand]

Mateo had it correct about Walker - Walker's comments, in particular the one about Iraq and soldiers (not to mention his association with the pseudo anti-christ Rosenhaus), doomed his endorsement coin. He needed to get out because he flushed his money making prospects down the toilet. And it helps your own psyche if you can assign the blame elsewhere rather than to the reflection in the mirror.

[Kiwon]

Given JW's current entitlement attitude, his departure is okay with me. I don't like losing the talent, but I'd take more Samkon Gados than Javon Walkers anytime.

[MJZiggy]

Mornin' Kiwon. Don't forget Donald Drivers!

[Fritz]

I'm in Denver today, and listened to a live 20 minute radio interview with Javon. He again brought up problems he had with other team members besides Favre, even joking that he wasn't aware that those guys had desk jobs.

He said he understood the business side of not wanting to pay him more money at the time, and made it sound more like the bad chemistry between him and his team mates was the primary reason behind his position. He used the word disrespect a lot.

WTF??? First he said he wanted out because he wasn't being "respected" by being paid like a pro bowl receiver. Then he said he couldn't stand Brett Favre and his comments. Then he slammed TT for "disrespecting" him. Now it's "other" teammates?

Make up your mind, Javon.

Second note - it's interesting to me that when in GB Walker wanted to restructure his contract - he wanted big money NOW. Apparently though he will now have to honor that last year of his original contract - he's only gotten an extension.

Wist, I was all for giving Walker an extension when this stuff first surfaced. Now, having heard Walker blaming everybody but the trainer for his unhappiness, I wonder if maybe TT saw some things about JWalk that we did not.

Time will tell. If he has a huge year, then another, then we can say the Packers were wrong to let him go. If he gets hurt or starts whining after a season or so, then we can say the Pack was right.

[The Leaper]

Leaper, you were one of JW's biggest supporters for a new contract in GB. What happened that you changed your mind?

I never supported giving him top 5 money at WR. I advocated for Thompson to put a fair deal on the table considering all factors involved...including having 2 years left under his current contract and being relatively unproven compared to other elite WRs like Owens, Moss, Harrison, etc. I thought after 2004, Walker deserved a deal making him the 20-25th highest paid WR in the league over the next 3 years. That would've given Walker the pay raise he wanted and deserved based on his talent...as well as giving him the ability to cash in another big payday within 2-3 seasons if he continued to produce at the level of an elite WR.

Whether or not Walker would've taken that, I don't know. But Thompson should've put the deal on the table and showed a willingness to bargain with a blue chip player. You don't ignore someone with Walker's talent until they are desperate enough to force their way out of town. That is foolishness IMO.

As far as the deal Denver gave Walker...I think it is ridiculous considering Walker is coming off of a rather major injury and really won't have the time to prove himself worthy of that massive deal in one year with a new team. Basically, Shanahan has painted himself in a corner. Rod Smith is on the decline, and has one or two years left in the tank tops. Lelie now is massively pissed off Shanahan went out and got Walker, and he isn't likely to stay in Denver very long. That means regardless of what Walker does this year, Shanahan is going to have to eat a monster contract for him...or look like a real fool. Unless Walker puts up another 1250 yards and 12 TDs, which I think is unlikely working on a new team with a less talented QB at the helm, it is going to be real hard to justify giving him the kind of money Denver is slotted to give him after 2006.

[The Leaper]

Wist, I was all for giving Walker an extension when this stuff first surfaced. Now, having heard Walker blaming everybody but the trainer for his unhappiness, I wonder if maybe TT saw some things about JWalk that we did not.

I don't know. I'd be pretty pissed off if I was Javon...and saw Robert Ferguson get a fat new deal after doing NOTHING to prove he was worthy of it. I'd also be pissed to see that Bubba Franks basically had to force the Packer's hand to get a new deal...after being a consistent, reliable player for a number of seasons. The Packers do not have a good track record of being proactive in rewarding players for good performance. Even Driver...one of the classiest guys and most consistent performers in the last 5 years...had to wait a hell of a long time to get what he deserved.

I'm not advocating that I agree with Javon's tactics...but I can understand why he'd feel a little upset about what happened last year.

[Noodle]

I read the article (good post, thanks) and I don't think Walker comes off badly at all. He's gracious about Favre, he's funny about how he wants to wear 84, and he says the right things about wanting to learn from his new teammates.

I'm with Wist and Leaper on this one. We don't know the real story, but if it is anything like Walker said, then TT blew it. He should not have given a flat no. He should have explored some options with Walker and kept the conversation going. Instead, he played hardball, which got us nowhere.

This was a bad outcome, and it has cost the Packers their best offensive weapon. And don't tell me he had only one good season. His rookie season was a wash (not surprising for a receiver), but in his second season he led the team in receiving yards, and his third season was huge.

Christl noted that no one on the current receiving corps can match Walker. He was special. He's gone. And I blame it on TT for not being more flexible.

[Tony Oday]

Walker reminds me of Rod Tidwell

[mraynrand]

Tidewell is much more articulate than Walker. Walker got a 'D' in his English as a second language class.

[Noodle]

I have great Quan for Walker. And for Tidwell.

But Walker is way bigger than Tidwell. Tidwell is more Steve Smith sized.

[Tony Oday]

lol but Tidwell goes over the middle!!!! hehe

I can just see walker biatching like Tidwell in the locker room on that little tirade and I could TOTALLY see CLifton and TAuch just walk by him and push him into his locker ;)

[Scott Campbell]

The Packers do not have a good track record of being proactive in rewarding players for good performance.


With the possible exceptions of Clifton, Tauscher, Harris, Driver, Fergeson (etc., etc., etc.....), I'd have to agree.

[Bretsky]

The Packers do not have a good track record of being proactive in rewarding players for good performance.


With the possible exceptions of Clifton, Tauscher, Harris, Driver, Fergeson (etc., etc., etc.....), I'd have to agree.

Did Ferguson ever even show the good performance to earn the contract he received ?

[Scott Campbell]

The Packers do not have a good track record of being proactive in rewarding players for good performance.


With the possible exceptions of Clifton, Tauscher, Harris, Driver, Fergeson (etc., etc., etc.....), I'd have to agree.

Did Ferguson ever even show the good performance to earn the contract he received ?

I think he hinted at it, and that's all it took for ole Shermy to open up the checkbook.

[chain_gang]

Anyone know how Fergie's contract compares to Driver's?

[The Leaper]

With the possible exceptions of Clifton, Tauscher, Harris, Driver, Fergeson (etc., etc., etc.....), I'd have to agree.

Ferguson never showed production worthy of the contract he received. Driver and Harris probably got their upgrades as much because they were a slap in the face to whiners who departed Green Bay, rather than because management expected to make the contract upgrade all along.

The list of players Green Bay strung along on below market contracts or until the last minute is long in recent years...Franks, Kampman, Diggs, KGB, Wahle, Walker, McKenzie. This caused us to have to overpay much of the time to retain talent, and also opened the potential for us to lose some of these players.

[Bretsky]

Anyone know how Fergie's contract compares to Driver's?

Before the renegotiation I think Fergy's cap figure was higher than Drivers.

[Scott Campbell]

The list of players Green Bay strung along on below market contracts or until the last minute is long in recent years...Franks, Kampman, Diggs, KGB, Wahle, Walker, McKenzie. This caused us to have to overpay much of the time to retain talent, and also opened the potential for us to lose some of these players.

Disagree. KGB and Kampman were 5th round picks. They got paid like 5th round picks - just like on every other team in the NFL.

Wahle was not underpaid. The only reason we had to overpay to keep Diggs is because Shermy tried to get cute with the tag he placed on him. Franks got a relatively modest pay increase, and padded the total value of his deal with a couple of years of salary that he'll likely never see.

Every team has a handful of players that are overpaid, and some that are underpaid. Green Bay is no different. Every team loses players to free agency. Green Bay is no different. Every team has disgruntled players. Green Bay is no different.

[Bretsky]

I read the article (good post, thanks) and I don't think Walker comes off badly at all. He's gracious about Favre, he's funny about how he wants to wear 84, and he says the right things about wanting to learn from his new teammates.

I'm with Wist and Leaper on this one. We don't know the real story, but if it is anything like Walker said, then TT blew it. He should not have given a flat no. He should have explored some options with Walker and kept the conversation going. Instead, he played hardball, which got us nowhere.

This was a bad outcome, and it has cost the Packers their best offensive weapon. And don't tell me he had only one good season. His rookie season was a wash (not surprising for a receiver), but in his second season he led the team in receiving yards, and his third season was huge.

Christl noted that no one on the current receiving corps can match Walker. He was special. He's gone. And I blame it on TT for not being more flexible.

Noodle,

I couldn't agree with all of this more.

[MadtownPacker]

I read the article (good post, thanks) and I don't think Walker comes off badly at all. He's gracious about Favre, he's funny about how he wants to wear 84, and he says the right things about wanting to learn from his new teammates.
Along with being a traitor yes walker was the best WR. But where was he gracious? You need to end your ban on ESPN noodleman!
walker is NOW saying that but I saw a couple of different ones where he wasnt. Talked about not having no respect for Favre and saying he wanted out. Now he is saying some of his teammates are why he left.

walker, I'll say it slow m a k e u p y o u r m i n d! Who do we blame cuz it obviously wasnt your fault?

As for his new teammates, let's ask Lelie about it. :D

[RashanGary]

Chris Chambers got a 5 yr 30 mil deal. Driver got 4 year 17 mil. I don't think he got full market value.

[Bretsky]

Chris Chambers got a 5 yr 30 mil deal. Driver got 4 year 17 mil. I don't think he got full market value.


Hate to start a new fight after just a year ago brawling with many in here that Chambers was heads and heals better than Ferguson...........but........
ahoh.................I'm going to say it.


Chris Chambers is better than Driver


He's also younger than Driver and has a higher upside so he should be getting more.

[chain_gang]

Hate to start a new fight after just a year ago brawling with many in here that Chambers was heads and heals better than Ferguson...........but........
ahoh.................I'm going to say it.


Chris Chambers is better than Driver


He's also younger than Driver and has a higher upside so he should be getting more.


I really can't argue with that Bretsky, as much as I want too. I would have to agree that Chambers is a better wideout than Driver. Don't forget to take into consideration though that Driver was the man they have been looking to replace for years, and no one has stepped up enough to do so. If I remember right they wanted to try and replace him after his breakout year in 2002, then again in 2003, and so on. Just went you think he realized his whole potential he suprises you again.

[RashanGary]

I don't watch a lot of Wisconsin football or Dolphins ball but I just looked up his stats and he's amazingly productive and consistant.

He does appear to be better than DD.

[RashanGary]

How in the hell did they take FERG??? AHHHHHH it just hit me.

[chain_gang]

Yeah Chamber's is a player, no doubt. Especially when you consider he has really had a great even good QB around him yet.

[pbmax]

The list of players Green Bay strung along on below market contracts or until the last minute is long in recent years...Franks, Kampman, Diggs, KGB, Wahle, Walker, McKenzie. This caused us to have to overpay much of the time to retain talent, and also opened the potential for us to lose some of these players.
Disagree. KGB and Diggs were mid-round picks who Sherman tendered incorrectly. Tendered correctly, their leverage would have been reduced and more reasonable contracts signed.

How much money would you have offered Franks? He got paid quite well for a man who is more of a threat as a blocker than receiver. He also spent the spring and summer off the Packer campus because he refused to sign the transition offer, in order to communicate his distaste for a one year deal. He wasn't being strung along, he was negotiating.

Wahle was on his SECOND contract. How this can be defined as being strung along is beyond me. He and the team knew that 2005 was either renegotiate or head back to FA.

McKenzie was on his SECOND deal. He and his agent miscalculated and he took a deal that was below market 3 months later. Singing a guy early is exactly what you are suggesting, and McKenzie is example #1 of how this can go bad.

Kampman signed a good deal for both player and team after negotiating for 4 months, while under contract. This is stringing along?

And for Chambers and his deal, you can't compare the total package and total years, he may never see any of the back end money. With Driver's deal, at least you know the numbers are realistic, even if tha Pack could cut him loose without a significant cap hit after 2 year.

[Bretsky]

How in the hell did they take FERG??? AHHHHHH it just hit me.

Nick,

In all honesty the passing of Chris Chambers was the lowest point I've had in watching all the NFL drafts. Scouts identified the 7 top WR's and Chambers was generally in the 3-6 range. The Browns goofed up by taking Quincy Morgan, who seemed to be rated #8 by most, ahead of Chambers. I was hoping Green Bay would select Chris Chambers at pick #17, and then Green Bay traded that pick (ended up being Steve Hutchinson) along with Matt Hasslebeck to get pick #10 (Jamal Raynolds) and a 3rd rounder (Torrence Marshall).

As I was watching that 2nd round wind down, I was absolutely positive when Green Bay moved up in round two they did so to draft Chris Chambers. Four year starter at the UW, great hands, below a 4.4, and great leaper. Pro Ready to step in from day one.

That was a great year from WR's and he was considered to be one of the big 7 that were in the top tier of wideouts. When we traded up I thought he was a lock to be a Packer. Selecting Ferguson over Chambers had to send about 25 teams laughing. I will always argue that was the worst selection I have ever witnessed by Green Bay because unlike there other bad picks, that one was so glaringly obvious it was amazing.

B

[RashanGary]

He sounds an awfull lot like Greg Jennings.

[Iron Mike]

APB gets his bear.


http://ak.imgfarm.com/images/ap/HYBRID_BEAR.sff_NY121_20060510210104.jpg

Hah hah hah!!!!!

http://www.f4g.net/vb/images/smilies/bongsmi.gif

[Anti-Polar Bear]

APB gets his bear.


http://ak.imgfarm.com/images/ap/HYBRID_BEAR.sff_NY121_20060510210104.jpg

Hah hah hah!!!!!

http://www.f4g.net/vb/images/smilies/bongsmi.gif

Unless that's a mixed race Polar Bear (thanks to st. lou at jsonline, I've learned that scientists now have discovered a biracial polar bear who is part polar bear,part grizzly bear), there's is nothing funny about the picture. Last I checked Polar Bears are protected under international laws. I believe it is a crime to hunt polar bears.

But what do I care? I am a liberal but a liberal who is more concerned with human welfare than animals that human have no use for; not even as pet. Millions of dollars are being wasted to protect useless endangered spices while millions of people around the world are starving. That to me is injustice.

[Iron Mike]

Unless that's a mixed race Polar Bear (thanks to st. lou at jsonline, I've learned that scientists now have discovered a biracial polar bear who is part polar bear,part grizzly bear), there's is nothing funny about the picture. Last I checked Polar Bears are protected under international laws. I believe it is a crime to hunt polar bears.

But what do I care? I am a liberal but a liberal who is more concerned with human welfare than animals that human have no use for; not even as pet. Millions of dollars are being wasted to protect useless endangered spices while millions of people around the world are starving. That to me is injustice.

Geez, Tank--I just quoted that post so that you'd have a new emoticon to use...........http://www.f4g.net/vb/images/smilies/bongsmi.gif

[Anti-Polar Bear]

[quote=Anti-Polar Bear]

Geez, Tank--I just quoted that post so that you'd have a new emoticon to use...........http://www.f4g.net/vb/images/smilies/bongsmi.gif

Oh yeah. That's a good one. :mrgreen: I may have failed to notice it at first due to me being distracted by the dead polar bear.

[GBRulz]

Leaper, you were one of JW's biggest supporters for a new contract in GB. What happened that you changed your mind?

I never supported giving him top 5 money at WR. I advocated for Thompson to put a fair deal on the table considering all factors involved...including having 2 years left under his current contract and being relatively unproven compared to other elite WRs like Owens, Moss, Harrison, etc. I thought after 2004, Walker deserved a deal making him the 20-25th highest paid WR in the league over the next 3 years. That would've given Walker the pay raise he wanted and deserved based on his talent...as well as giving him the ability to cash in another big payday within 2-3 seasons if he continued to produce at the level of an elite WR.

Whether or not Walker would've taken that, I don't know. But Thompson should've put the deal on the table and showed a willingness to bargain with a blue chip player. You don't ignore someone with Walker's talent until they are desperate enough to force their way out of town. That is foolishness IMO.

As far as the deal Denver gave Walker...I think it is ridiculous considering Walker is coming off of a rather major injury and really won't have the time to prove himself worthy of that massive deal in one year with a new team. Basically, Shanahan has painted himself in a corner. Rod Smith is on the decline, and has one or two years left in the tank tops. Lelie now is massively pissed off Shanahan went out and got Walker, and he isn't likely to stay in Denver very long. That means regardless of what Walker does this year, Shanahan is going to have to eat a monster contract for him...or look like a real fool. Unless Walker puts up another 1250 yards and 12 TDs, which I think is unlikely working on a new team with a less talented QB at the helm, it is going to be real hard to justify giving him the kind of money Denver is slotted to give him after 2006.

I could have sworn you were an advocate for giving JWalk the money, because I remember you saying something about him sitting on a 25 million dollar lottery ticket signing bonus. Don't remember exactly. Posting on JSO seems like forever ago :smile:

[Bretsky]

He sounds an awfull lot like Greg Jennings.

This does't mean Jennings can't be as good or better, but coming out of college Chambers was faster, a better leaper, and stronger than Jennings. I'd give Jennings the edge for ability to create yards after the catch, but only a slight edge. We'll be walking on water with happiness if Jennings turns out to be as good as Chris Chambers.

[b bulldog]

Chambers is good but he really has only had one very good season. With that being said, I think he will cement himself as a top 8 WR this season.

[Bretsky]

Chambers is good but he really has only had one very good season. With that being said, I think he will cement himself as a top 8 WR this season.

Kind of interesting reading that; I could plug in Javon Walker into the above phrase and it would fit perfectly as well.

Chambers has been playing with bad QBing his whole career though and has still put up a decent amount of TD's and yards per season. Last year was his first breakout season, but he showed flashes of tremendous ability from day one. It'd be scary if GB had drafted him and he'd have had Favre throwing to him the past few years.

Going forward if Javon Walker gets healthy, it should be interesting to see who puts up better career numbers because they are very very similar players in ability.

[The Leaper]

I could have sworn you were an advocate for giving JWalk the money, because I remember you saying something about him sitting on a 25 million dollar lottery ticket signing bonus. Don't remember exactly. Posting on JSO seems like forever ago :smile:

He was...if he hadn't gotten hurt. That was why he was trying to get a deal done last season with 2 years left on his rookie deal. He was trying to avoid exactly what happened to him.

However, he went about it all wrong...then Thompson refused to negotiate...and Walker basically had no choice but to return to camp and hope he didn't blow out his knee, unless he was punk enough to pull a McKenzie.

He was sitting on a $25 million lottery ticket. Guys like Peerless Price and Laverneus Coles cashed in pretty big off one good season...and they don't represent anything close to the physical talent that Javon Walker has. That is why I don't really hold anything against Walker in wanting to get a new deal last season...precisely because what did happen could happen.

[The Leaper]

KGB and Diggs were mid-round picks who Sherman tendered incorrectly. Tendered correctly, their leverage would have been reduced and more reasonable contracts signed.

So you admit that Green Bay tendered them incorrectly. Why did they do this? Because they were HOPING to get them relatively cheap if no other NFL teams showed interest. This is EXACTLY the kind of crap I am talking about...not paying guys what they are worth up front and being done with it.


How much money would you have offered Franks? He got paid quite well for a man who is more of a threat as a blocker than receiver.

Yes he did...mainly because Green Bay REFUSED to put together a deal earlier and wrap him up before mega-stars like Antonio Gates started raising the ceiling on TE salaries. To some extent, I don't begrudge the Packers in this instance...however, it is still a valid point to bring up from a player's persepective. That is my point. Franks was a solid player and a good presence in the locker room...and had to fight tooth and nail to get a contract hammered out that gave him some level of security long term. A guy like Walker is going to view that and have doubts about how the team will treat him.


Wahle was on his SECOND contract. How this can be defined as being strung along is beyond me. He and the team knew that 2005 was either renegotiate or head back to FA. McKenzie was on his SECOND deal. He and his agent miscalculated and he took a deal that was below market 3 months later. Singing a guy early is exactly what you are suggesting, and McKenzie is example #1 of how this can go bad.

I don't care if it is a FIRST, SECOND, or EIGHTH contract. The point isn't signing a guy early...it is treating guys fairly when it is in the best interest of the team.

McKenzie was treated unfairly. It is entirely his fault...he had incompetent advisors...but Green Bay should not have taken advantage of the situation as they did. It sends a dangerous message to the players that the team doesn't really give a crap about them...and will screw them over any chance they get. I don't condone that one bit. That again is part of my point. I want Green Bay to RESPECT the players on the roster...and try to do the RIGHT thing. Mike McKenzie was a valuable player for this franchise...screwing him over was the wrong thing to do, regardless of the IQ of his agent. The Packers knew his value...they should've tried to craft a deal that was fair, because in the end an unfair deal will typically bite you in the ass.

I would admit that "stringing along" might not be the correct wording for some of these situations. However, I think it is pretty clear that Green Bay hasn't always been honorable when it comes to dealing with player salaries. That causes guys like Walker...who are staring a potential monster contract in the face...to doubt that Green Bay is going to deal fairly with them. It sets a bad precident...and one that I hope the franchise earnestly seeks to stamp out. Otherwise, others will follow the lead of McKenzie and Walker.

[Patler]

How much money would you have offered Franks? He got paid quite well for a man who is more of a threat as a blocker than receiver.

Yes he did...mainly because Green Bay REFUSED to put together a deal earlier and wrap him up before mega-stars like Antonio Gates started raising the ceiling on TE salaries. To some extent, I don't begrudge the Packers in this instance...however, it is still a valid point to bring up from a player's persepective. That is my point. Franks was a solid player and a good presence in the locker room...and had to fight tooth and nail to get a contract hammered out that gave him some level of security long term. A guy like Walker is going to view that and have doubts about how the team will treat him.


I think it is at least as likely, and probably MORE likely that the delay in signing Franks was caused by Franks and his agent, not the Packers. From the bits and pieces of comments in articles over the summer, I am fairly well convinced that with the tender from the tag in his pocket, Franks simply decided to wait as long as he could, and see if the market would develop for him to sign a blockbuster deal, either with GB or someone else. There was no reason for him not to do that. As training camps neared, if a team developed a drastic need for a tight end, his value may have escalated.

Delays in signing free agents are not always caused by the team, and in this instance I am convinced that Franks was more than happy to string things along and see how it played out. It was the smart thing to do on his part.

[Patler]

Wahle was on his SECOND contract. How this can be defined as being strung along is beyond me. He and the team knew that 2005 was either renegotiate or head back to FA. McKenzie was on his SECOND deal. He and his agent miscalculated and he took a deal that was below market 3 months later. Singing a guy early is exactly what you are suggesting, and McKenzie is example #1 of how this can go bad.

I don't care if it is a FIRST, SECOND, or EIGHTH contract. The point isn't signing a guy early...it is treating guys fairly when it is in the best interest of the team.

McKenzie was treated unfairly. It is entirely his fault...he had incompetent advisors...but Green Bay should not have taken advantage of the situation as they did. It sends a dangerous message to the players that the team doesn't really give a crap about them...and will screw them over any chance they get. I don't condone that one bit. That again is part of my point. I want Green Bay to RESPECT the players on the roster...and try to do the RIGHT thing. Mike McKenzie was a valuable player for this franchise...screwing him over was the wrong thing to do, regardless of the IQ of his agent. The Packers knew his value...they should've tried to craft a deal that was fair, because in the end an unfair deal will typically bite you in the ass.

Explain to me how Wahle was treated unfairly? Wahle's last contract from GB was a great contract for an up and coming player. Two things could have happened in 2005, both of which were excellent for Wahle:

1. GB could have paid a huge bonus to him, and a year later he would have become a free agent, but with the possibility of GB tagging him.

2. GB could decline to pay the bonus, and Wahle would immediately become an UFA, without the encumberance of GB being able to put a tag on him.

Wahle was actually paid quite well under his last contract in GB. He got a $2.250 million signing bonus in 2002, roster bonuses totaling about $750,000 in 2003 and 2004 and salaries of $525,000; $1,875,000 and $2,100,000 in '02, '03 and '04. He was paid a total of $7.5 million by GB for the three seasons of '02, 03 and '04. With an average of $2.5 million for the 3 years, he was actually one of the better paid guards in the league. On average, he was not far behind Rivera who signed a 4 year deal in 2001 and collected just under $11 million. Plus, absent injury or declining play Wahle was guaranteed a blockbuster income in 2005, as I explained above.

Suggesting that GB was cheap with Wahle, or treated him poorly is just flat out incorrect.

[Patler]

Wahle was on his SECOND contract. How this can be defined as being strung along is beyond me. He and the team knew that 2005 was either renegotiate or head back to FA. McKenzie was on his SECOND deal. He and his agent miscalculated and he took a deal that was below market 3 months later. Singing a guy early is exactly what you are suggesting, and McKenzie is example #1 of how this can go bad.

I don't care if it is a FIRST, SECOND, or EIGHTH contract. The point isn't signing a guy early...it is treating guys fairly when it is in the best interest of the team.

McKenzie was treated unfairly. It is entirely his fault...he had incompetent advisors...but Green Bay should not have taken advantage of the situation as they did. It sends a dangerous message to the players that the team doesn't really give a crap about them...and will screw them over any chance they get. I don't condone that one bit. That again is part of my point. I want Green Bay to RESPECT the players on the roster...and try to do the RIGHT thing. Mike McKenzie was a valuable player for this franchise...screwing him over was the wrong thing to do, regardless of the IQ of his agent. The Packers knew his value...they should've tried to craft a deal that was fair, because in the end an unfair deal will typically bite you in the ass.

I also disagree with the notion that McKenzie was treated unfairly. He signed a somewhat undervalued contract in 2002, but it was worth more than $17 million over 5 years. Plus, he was signed a full year in advance of the expiration of his existing contract, and that should earn somewhat of a discount. What made it look worse was that shortly after McKenzie signed, cornerback salaries went up a lot. McKenzie went from being extremely happy in January 2002, to be a disgruntled malcontent in January 2004.

[Scott Campbell]

Yeah. What Shamrock said.

[The Leaper]

Delays in signing free agents are not always caused by the team, and in this instance I am convinced that Franks was more than happy to string things along and see how it played out. It was the smart thing to do on his part.

I did not suggest that Franks wasn't smart in taking a wait and see approach once he hit the free agent market. If you want to maximize your value, you typically don't jump at the first offer you see. That is why it was clear that Thompson had no chance of keeping Wahle in town last year. It wasn't about maximizing his value...he jumped at the first offer he got from a solid team a couple hours into free agency. Wahle easily could've upped his value even more...he was a marquee free agent and would've had a lot of interest.

All of these points I bring up relate to how players view the team in regard to negotiations. My point is that Green Bay is starting to get a reputation for being cheap and hard to deal with. That needs to be nipped in the bud. Green Bay isn't exactly the greatest town to call home for an NFL player. Negative items relating to the team are not a good way to attract potential free agents...now or in the future.

That is why I have supported reworking Driver's deal since last season. He deserved to be paid more. It wasn't something that Green Bay HAD to do...but it was something they SHOULD do. It makes a statement to the players that hard work and character are rewarded in Green Bay.

[The Leaper]

I also disagree with the notion that McKenzie was treated unfairly. He signed a somewhat undervalued contract in 2002, but it was worth more than $17 million over 5 years. Plus, he was signed a full year in advance of the expiration of his existing contract, and that should earn somewhat of a discount. What made it look worse was that shortly after McKenzie signed, cornerback salaries went up a lot. McKenzie went from being extremely happy in January 2002, to be a disgruntled malcontent in January 2004.

I'm sorry, but it was pretty clear that CB salaries were going to increase greatly in the near future when McKenzie resigned...numerous high profile CBs were nearing the end of their deals. Did Green Bay expect these high profile guys to not drive up the pay scale at the position enormously?

You simply can't look at whether or not a guy is fairly paid RIGHT NOW...but 2-3 years down the road. Otherwise, an underpaid player is going to pull the same stunts we've seen from McKenzie and Walker...because that is just how business is in the NFL these days. If a team SEES that a valuable player isn't being paid fairly, they should take steps to see if it can be corrected. Green Bay failed twice in that regard with both McKenzie and Walker...and were fortunate to get the value they did in return for those guys. Next time, it might not be as pretty.

I'm not suggesting Green Bay roll over whenever someone gripes. However, you can't always take a hard line stance either. You also need to be consistent in your approach. In the last 4-5 years, Green Bay has been all over the map. I would like to see Thompson bring some consistency and fairness to the equation.

[Patler]

All of these points I bring up relate to how players view the team in regard to negotiations. My point is that Green Bay is starting to get a reputation for being cheap and hard to deal with.

But that is exactly where I disagree with you. The examples fans keep bringing up to illustrate GB being cheap or hard to deal with are wrong, completely wrong.

McKenzie is not an example, he got a very nice deal for a player that would still have been a restricted free agent and could have been kept around for at least another year very cheaply.

Wahle is not an example. He was paid very well, and had a very advantageous position in 2005.
Franks is not an example, as explained earlier. He has been paid fairly.
Tauscher is not an example, he was paid while still injured.
Clifton got a very nice deal for his time.
Harris got a very nice contract, well before his expired.
Kampman has been given a very good contract.

Green has been paid well previously, and now has been given an opportunity to come back from an injury and still be paid quite well if he does.

Manuel, Pickett and Woodson have all received very good and very fair free agent contract.

Driver was paid fairly last time, and has now been upgraded significantly.

Where is all this unfairness, or difficulty in dealing with? McKenzie because in 24 months he went from being very happy to be disgruntled while earning $3+ million per year on a 5 year contract? Walker because he had one very good year in 3 and had been paid about $6 million dollars for those three years? Basically you have had two examples of players who did very abrupt about-faces because of extenuating circumstances, and showed very little willingness to work with the team in correcting any "injustice" that may have been done to them. Sometimes you have to wait your turn, and neither one was being treated that horrendously.

As far as "cheapness" in tenders to RFAs like Diggs and KGB, as a successful team with quite a few very highly compensated players, until this offseason the Packers have been skirting cap limitations for years. That means several deserving players will be offered less for a time. Eventually, it becomes "their turn" and the money shows up. With a salary cap, someone is always underpaid.

[Patler]

I'm sorry, but it was pretty clear that CB salaries were going to increase greatly in the near future when McKenzie resigned...numerous high profile CBs were nearing the end of their deals. Did Green Bay expect these high profile guys to not drive up the pay scale at the position enormously?


The point that everyone always forgets with McKenzie is that GB negotiated the deal, gave him a $3.5 million bonus on a $17+ million contract when he still had a full season remaining as a restricted free agent. Basically, in 2002 GB could have kept him around for something like $500,000. Instead, GB gave him a nice chunck of cash for that time, took on the risk that he would be injured, and pushed out his window to free agency by 4 years from what it was. Rather than a 5 year $17+ million dollar contract, it was really a 4 year $16.5 million contract, because GB was assured a year at a half million anyway. They paid just under $17 million for the additional four years. McKenzies contract was not out of line. You can't directly compare with contracts signed by unrestricted free agents.

It's kind of funny, because the Packers are criticitzed for mishandling both McKenzie and Walker, as if they made the same mistake twice. In actuality they handled them just about opposite. One time they renegotiated early, the other time they refused to.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't think McKenzie's issue was about money, he just wanted out.

[Patler]

I don't think McKenzie's issue was about money, he just wanted out.

I agree.

I think Walker preferred to leave too, but may have been less set on it than McKenzie was. Walker's approach did not have the feeling of a player who wanted to work out something and stay in GB, even last year.

[The Leaper]

The point that everyone always forgets with McKenzie is that GB negotiated the deal, gave him a $3.5 million bonus on a $17+ million contract when he still had a full season remaining as a restricted free agent.

I had forgotten that he was a restricted FA...that point does have a lot of bearing on that deal. I also agree he left Green Bay for issues other than just money.