Former MVP QB is old and washed up

[the_idle_threat]

So I dunno how long ago "they" started saying Favre is getting old and can't do it anymore on his own, but it seems like it was a long time ago already.

So now, we have Peyton Manning with 7 INTs and one lost fumble in his last 2 games combined---both losses. He'll be 32 years old in 4 months, which means he's past his athletic prime. Is it too early to start saying Manning is getting old and is headed toward being :laugh: washed up?

:satan: :shtf: :bs2:

[The Leaper]

People keep thinking Manning will break Favre's records...but I'm not so sure. Manning is completely immobile and can be harrassed in the pocket. His game is no different than Marino's. While Marino kept putting on knee braces and grimacing through his later years because he wanted another chance at that elusive title, I can't see Manning doing the same. He's had a star studded offensive cast for years...it is rare for a player to get that lucky for an entire career.

In 4-5 years, he'll have a chance to bow out and take a cushy gig behind a microphone. I wouldn't be shocked if he jumps at that. He'll need 6 more years to reach most of Favre's records AFTER Favre retires.

[Deputy Nutz]

Well I don't care who you are when you lose your all-pro receiver, his back up and your starting tight end you fall back, I didn't realize you fall back while throwing 6 INTs, but I guess that just proves that Manning isn't the savior of football.

[3irty1]

I think someday his career as a player will be a small footnote on the long successful career he has as a coach. Yes it will be that long and that successful.

[mraynrand]

Well I don't care who you are when you lose your all-pro receiver, his back up and your starting tight end you fall back, I didn't realize you fall back while throwing 6 INTs, but I guess that just proves that Manning isn't the savior of football.

Sorry, you can't use that to excuse horrible play by Manning. Would anyone forgive Favre for INTs if he was playing without his pro bowl wideout or pro bowl running back, and throwing to the likes of Chatman and Thurman, like in 2005? Of course not. There are no other factors to consider than the QB. Manning was totally at fault last night, and the only significant factor in the loss last night, just as Favre cost the Packers all those victories in 2005. Dungy needs to 'hold Manning accountable' and 'reign him in.' Perhaps he should bench him for several series to 'teach him a lesson' and show him that such play 'won't be tolerated.' But Dungy probably won't do a thing because, like Mike Sherman was with Favre, he's intimidated by Manning.

[mraynrand]

I think someday his career as a player will be a small footnote on the long successful career he has as a coach. Yes it will be that long and that successful.

More likely his career will be a footnote to a long a prolific career as a spokesman. He'll make Arnold Palmer (who never met a product he wouldn't endore) look like a hermit.

[Deputy Nutz]

Well I don't care who you are when you lose your all-pro receiver, his back up and your starting tight end you fall back, I didn't realize you fall back while throwing 6 INTs, but I guess that just proves that Manning isn't the savior of football.

Sorry, you can't use that to excuse horrible play by Manning. Would anyone forgive Favre for INTs if he was playing without his pro bowl wideout or pro bowl running back, and throwing to the likes of Chatman and Thurman, like in 2005? Of course not. There are no other factors to consider than the QB. Manning was totally at fault last night, and the only significant factor in the loss last night, just as Favre cost the Packers all those victories in 2005. Dungy needs to 'hold Manning accountable' and 'reign him in.' Perhaps he should bench him for several series to 'teach him a lesson' and show him that such play 'won't be tolerated.' But Dungy probably won't do a thing because, like Mike Sherman was with Favre, he's intimidated by Manning.

Well Manning has had a nice comfort zone the last several years throwing to all-pro receivers like Harrison and Wayne, not to mention Dallas Clark, and running backs like Addai and James. The guy has had the talent in the world around him, and now that Harrison's career is threatened due to injury, Manning will have to make average receivers look good, ala Favre, I don't think he can do it.

[mraynrand]

You forgot about Stokeley, the 'slot machine' Are you saying that no man is an island, with an exception for 'Favre Island?' Plus, I laid the sarcasm on as thick as I could and that's all I get - that Manning will do worse with average receivers?

[Deputy Nutz]

You forgot about Stokeley, the 'slot machine' Are you saying that no man is an island, with an exception for 'Favre Island?' Plus, I laid the sarcasm on as thick as I could and that's all I get - that Manning will do worse with average receivers?


I guess I am just missing your point. For years everyone claimed that Manning was untouchable in terms of ability and talent, well he threw 6 picks against a defense that Favre dismantled. Manning is only human and when the talent pool around him starts to crumble the question will be if he is talented enough to carry his team by himself? I don't think so, very few QBs are, Favre couldn't do it in 2005 and barely held the team together in other years where the talent was depleted.

[The Leaper]

It is highly unlikely Manning can carry a team on his own. He rarely has put up dominating stats in terms of production despite having one of the most talented supporting casts for a decade. He had one monster year...but rarely has reached the 30 TD mark otherwise despite having a HOF caliber WR and strong running game for the majority of his career.

Manning's value comes from game management and his low INT %...I don't see him as a playmaker in the ilk of Favre or Elway. Without a strong supporting cast, Manning will struggle IMO going forward as he ages due to his lack of mobility. Favre isn't that mobile any more...but compared to Manning he looks like Vick. That is what kept Favre alive the last two years. If Manning was in Green Bay in 05/06, he'd have been killed.

[mraynrand]

You forgot about Stokeley, the 'slot machine' Are you saying that no man is an island, with an exception for 'Favre Island?' Plus, I laid the sarcasm on as thick as I could and that's all I get - that Manning will do worse with average receivers?


I guess I am just missing your point. For years everyone claimed that Manning was untouchable in terms of ability and talent, well he threw 6 picks against a defense that Favre dismantled. Manning is only human and when the talent pool around him starts to crumble the question will be if he is talented enough to carry his team by himself? I don't think so, very few QBs are, Favre couldn't do it in 2005 and barely held the team together in other years where the talent was depleted.

I think I'm in total agreement with your position. What I was being sarcastic about (and my barbs were intended for) was the numbnuts (not directed at you) who blamed losses on Favre's picks in 2005, or tried to pin the Playoff loss in 2001 (Jan 2002) to St. Louis on Favre's 'horrible play.' Detailed analysis of 2005 showed that the Packers had excrement for offensive weapons, including Chatman, Thurman, and Herron. I mean, COME ONE PEOPLE - that's not even arena league material. And in St. Louis Favre actually played pretty well with a team that forgot how to run block, receivers who went the wrong way (Schroeder) or fumbled (Freeman) - Favre was responsible for 1 of 3 INTS before the game was out of hand - and so what if he threw 3 after they were down by four scores?

So to me, it's no damn surprise that Manning can look like crap when he has laughable talent around him. He could be even worse than Favre under those circumstances. But do you think all the same crap will be said about him that was said about Favre under similar circumstances?

[MadtownPacker]

I thought Mannings attempt at a comeback last night was weak. They had time to dink dunk into FG range but he seemed like he had giving up on winning.

[Merlin]

Well I don't care who you are when you lose your all-pro receiver, his back up and your starting tight end you fall back, I didn't realize you fall back while throwing 6 INTs, but I guess that just proves that Manning isn't the savior of football.

Sorry, you can't use that to excuse horrible play by Manning. Would anyone forgive Favre for INTs if he was playing without his pro bowl wideout or pro bowl running back, and throwing to the likes of Chatman and Thurman, like in 2005? Of course not. There are no other factors to consider than the QB. Manning was totally at fault last night, and the only significant factor in the loss last night, just as Favre cost the Packers all those victories in 2005. Dungy needs to 'hold Manning accountable' and 'reign him in.' Perhaps he should bench him for several series to 'teach him a lesson' and show him that such play 'won't be tolerated.' But Dungy probably won't do a thing because, like Mike Sherman was with Favre, he's intimidated by Manning.

What is really amusing is that Buck said that the Unitas record for int's in a game for the Colts was 5. When Manning tied it they mentioned it again, not a WORD when he broke that record from the announcers or the media today. If it was Favre, then it would be front page news and that's the difference between the media infatuation with a QB that isn't all that great and a legend they have been trying to keep down (of course they won't admit that because Favre is all world this season)

[Zool]

Well I don't care who you are when you lose your all-pro receiver, his back up and your starting tight end you fall back, I didn't realize you fall back while throwing 6 INTs, but I guess that just proves that Manning isn't the savior of football.

Sorry, you can't use that to excuse horrible play by Manning. Would anyone forgive Favre for INTs if he was playing without his pro bowl wideout or pro bowl running back, and throwing to the likes of Chatman and Thurman, like in 2005? Of course not. There are no other factors to consider than the QB. Manning was totally at fault last night, and the only significant factor in the loss last night, just as Favre cost the Packers all those victories in 2005. Dungy needs to 'hold Manning accountable' and 'reign him in.' Perhaps he should bench him for several series to 'teach him a lesson' and show him that such play 'won't be tolerated.' But Dungy probably won't do a thing because, like Mike Sherman was with Favre, he's intimidated by Manning.

What is really amusing is that Buck said that the Unitas record for int's in a game for the Colts was 5. When Manning tied it they mentioned it again, not a WORD when he broke that record from the announcers or the media today. If it was Favre, then it would be front page news and that's the difference between the media infatuation with a QB that isn't all that great and a legend they have been trying to keep down (of course they won't admit that because Favre is all world this season)

I cant believe that guy is still riding his dads coat tails. He made the world series unwatchable for me.