With all the discussion on Favre's former WR's.

[chain_gang]

With all the discussion on Favre's former wideouts not being able to make it on a different team I ask you this. Would Donald Driver been able to make it on a different team say about two years ago or maybe even after this past year?

I would have to say yes. Mainly because I think money won't turn him into a slouch and he'd continue to try and improve, like he will now after the extension he received. I really think Walker won't make it, mainly because he is too worried about the almight payday, and usually when that happens you get a cletidus hunt, joe johnson, antonio freeman, and so on. I don't think Walker has it in him to try and improve where money rules. Few actually do. Look at all the big signings or extentions in recent years and look at how many have flopped compared to how many succeed. I feel guys like Aaron Kampman, Donald Driver, Brett Favre, and even dipping into Basketball a little Michael Redd have that Old School Desire that is somewhat lacked in the modern era of sports today, where not earning your paycheck after you sign it is all to common.

Thoughts?

[MadtownPacker]

The only reason why DD wouldn't have made it is that he might have never gotten the chance. 7th rd pick, didnt do much his first couple of season. Who knows. Given the chance and given the ball I believe DD would have still been DD.

[ND72]

DD is like the 1 man american dream...he was given his opportunity and he took off with it. He's a self made star, and self made success. can't help but love the guy.

[Merlin]

It's hard to say with Driver. He may have been good elsewhere, but I think just playing in Green Bay alone made him a better player. I think Favre helped a bit.

[Chubbyhubby]

What made DD so popular besides being a 7th round gem was his Lambeau Leap a few years back. (to this day I have that CD)

PS: as I wrote this I have 84 posts the number Donald Driver wears!

[jack's smirking revenge]

The only reason why DD wouldn't have made it is that he might have never gotten the chance. 7th rd pick, didnt do much his first couple of season. Who knows. Given the chance and given the ball I believe DD would have still been DD.

I agree with Mad. The Pack nutured DD and had patience with him. DD put in the work and the effort and became what he is today. Hard to say whether or not another team would've had that much patience with him, allowed him to flourish.

tyler

[retailguy]

What made DD so popular besides being a 7th round gem was his Lambeau Leap a few years back. (to this day I have that CD)

PS: as I wrote this I have 84 posts the number Donald Driver wears!

Sorry Chubby..... Javon wore 84. Driver wears 80.

[Merlin]

What made DD so popular besides being a 7th round gem was his Lambeau Leap a few years back. (to this day I have that CD)

PS: as I wrote this I have 84 posts the number Donald Driver wears!

Um here wears #80, Walker wore #84

[The Leaper]

I think he would have the chance to succeed anywhere...because of his work ethic and character. Whether or not that chance paid off is anyone's guess, because so many variables are in the equation. Green Bay does have one of the best reputations for giving late draft picks and undrafted rookies chances to make a roster and improve.

He was features in SI last year for the difficult workout regime he puts himself through. It is hard to think a guy willing to put out that kind of effort is going to come up short very often. Having Favre certainly helps...but it is pretty clear at this point that Driver could be a starting receiver for any team in the NFL right now. So there isn't much to argue in terms of his talent or desire...it comes down to whether or not an NFL team would have given him a fair chance. If they would have, I think Driver succeeds wherever he goes.

[RashanGary]

I voted yes. Look at his physical condition every year. He can run, jump and catch. He works hard and understands the game. What the hell else does a WR need. Favre throws for 4,000 yards every year so of course he gives guys the chance to succeed so he probably wouldn't have been as productive. Sterling Sharpe called him a legit #1 WR. I think Sharpe knows more about playing WR than Wist or anyone else on these forums who claim Driver is a #2 at best.

Every team isn't going to have a top 10 talent at WR. Think about it, there are 32 teams and 10 top 10 players to go around....It's pretty easy math. DD is legit, no question in my mind.

[RashanGary]

Even after he got his new payday, he is underpaid in teh long run. The more I look at that contract, the more I think Thompson was fair and wise in that contract signing.

Driver gets the security to support his family for the rest of his life and gets a just under market value pay check and GB gets their #1 weapon in camp and happy for 4 years.

I think the point Thompson was trying to make is that if guys want to get paid early they can but it is going to be just below fair market value. I think that is a good standard to set.

[jack's smirking revenge]

I can't answer the poll. I think its misleading. DD needs more than just BF in order to succeed; I think he's needed the whole Packer organization. It helps that he's got a future HoF'er throwing to him, but he's needed the whole org to have patience with him (which has allowed him the resources to have a crazy offseason program and to give him the confidence to work on bettering himself).

I don't take anything away from DD, because he deserves much praise for what he's done. He'll retire as a Packer--not a Packer HoF'er, but a solid WR that produced year-in and year-out.

tyler

[RashanGary]

All time Packer records:

All time recieving yards

James Lofton - 9,656
Sterling Sharpe - 8,134
Don Hudson - 7,991
Boyd Dowler - 6,918
Antonio Freeman - 6,651
Donald Driver - 4,634

Driver, based on his previous production, will likely pass Dawler and maybe Hudson/Sharpe by the time his current contract expires.

All time receptions

Sterling Sharpe - 595
James Lofton - 530
Don Hutson - 488
Boyd Dowler - 448
Antonio Freeman - 431
Donald Driver - 329

If Driver averages 51 receptions per season over his current contract he will have passed Lofton as the #2 all time reception leader.


Driver could play like Robert Ferguson and make it to #5 or better if he plays 4 more years. It's unlikely he'll play like Ferg so based on past production and his current amazing physical condition and starting role, he will very likely be the #3 reciever in packer history based on production. Driver stands a really good chance to make the Packer HOF. Also, He is clearly a legit #1 WR.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Good info Nick! I wasn't aware that he was so high in the Packer historical ranks. Interesting... With a couple more high-production years, he could rank near the top. Didn't know that...

tyler

[chain_gang]

Yeah thanks for the info Nick I didn't know he was that close to all of those packer records either.

Pretty amazing if you think about it.

[RashanGary]

It will take Driver 11 years to do what Sharpe did in 8 so clearly he was not as dominate as Sharpe or even Freeman, but he has been a very productive player and when it's all said and done, longevity and health count for something. Just ask Brett Favre, Reggie White and Bo Jackson.

[chain_gang]

Yeah especially after that brutal hit he took in the season opener, against the Vikes a couple years back. Guy is mentally tough. Although he didn't seem the same for the rest of that year, but the year after he sure stepped it up. Hmmm, maybe there's hope for Fergie yet.

[No Mo Moss]

Favre definately makes the majority of WRs he plays with better, but it doesn't always work out that way. Terry Glenn really didn't have that great of a year here. He has succeeded in Dallas for the most part. I have no idea why we gave him away for virtually nothing. He is exactly the kind of guy we need on this team right now. Nice Shermy.

[Chubbyhubby]

I think the Pack rewarded Donald Driver based on his performance and what a performer like those records indicate! There are alot of new rookies about and with Packers getting the deal done now shows the rooks that hard work and effort even for the lower draft picks like DD was (7th rounder) it shows charcter on the Packers part. Great work TT on getting this done.

I really like this '06 draft all of them are "Packer People" exactly what we need!

[MadtownPacker]

Great info NC. Does how that DD is undervalued. Now he is around for a few more years he will mentor the youngsters. I see DD being more of a tacher type then any other player on O. Maybe even the whole team. Great that he was shown love by the Polar Bear.

[RashanGary]

2005 NFL Recieving Yards

1 Steve Smith CAR 103 1563 15.2 12 80
2 Santana Moss WAS 84 1483 17.7 9 78
3 Chad Johnson CIN 97 1432 14.8 9 70
4 Larry Fitzgerald ARI 103 1409 13.7 10 47
5 Anquan Boldin ARI 102 1402 13.7 7 54
6 Torry Holt STL 102 1331 13.0 9 44
7 Joey Galloway TB 83 1287 15.5 10 80
8 Donald Driver GB 86 1221 14.2 5 59
9 Plaxico Burress NYG 76 1214 16.0 7 78
10 Marvin Harrison IND 82 1146 14.0 12 80
11 Terry Glenn DAL 62 1136 18.3 7 71
12 Chris Chambers MIA 82 1118 13.6 11 77
13 Rod Smith DEN 85 1105 13.0 6 72
14 Eddie Kennison KC 68 1102 16.2 5 55
15 Antonio Gates SD 89 1101 12.4 10 38
16 Derrick Mason BAL 86 1073 12.5 3 39
17 Reggie Wayne IND 83 1055 12.7 5 66
18 Jimmy Smith JAC 70 1023 14.6 6 45
19 Antonio Bryant CLE 69 1009 14.6 4 54
20 Randy Moss OAK 60 1005 16.8 8 79
21 Deion Branch NE 78 998 12.8 5 51
22 Hines Ward PIT 69 975 14.1 11 85
23 T.J. Houshmandzadeh CIN 78 956 12.3 7 43
24 Donte' Stallworth NO 70 945 13.5 7 43
25 Jerry Porter OAK 76 942 12.4 5 49
26 Keenan McCardell SD 70 917 13.1 9 54
27 Tony Gonzalez KC 78 905 11.6 2 39
28 Jeremy Shockey NYG 65 891 13.7 7 59
29 Alge Crumpler ATL 65 877 13.5 5 48
30 Todd Heap BAL 75 855 11.4 7 48

2004 NFL Recieving Yards

1 Muhsin Muhammad CAR 93 1405 15.1 16 51
2 Joe Horn NO 94 1399 14.9 11 57
3 Javon Walker GB 89 1382 15.5 12 79
4 Torry Holt STL 94 1372 14.6 10 75
5 Isaac Bruce STL 89 1292 14.5 6 56
6 Chad Johnson CIN 95 1274 13.4 9 53
7 Tony Gonzalez KC 102 1258 12.3 7 32
8 Drew Bennett TEN 80 1247 15.6 11 48
9 Reggie Wayne IND 77 1210 15.7 12 71
10 Donald Driver GB 84 1208 14.4 9 50
11 Terrell Owens PHI 77 1200 15.6 14 59
12 Darrell Jackson SEA 87 1199 13.8 7 56
13 Michael Clayton TB 80 1193 14.9 7 75
14 Jimmy Smith JAC 74 1172 15.8 6 65
15 Derrick Mason TEN 96 1168 12.2 7 37
16 Rod Smith DEN 79 1144 14.5 7 85
17 Andre Johnson HOU 79 1142 14.5 6 54
18 Marvin Harrison IND 86 1113 12.9 15 59
19 Eddie Kennison KC 62 1086 17.5 8 70
20 Ashley Lelie DEN 54 1084 20.1 7 58
21 Brandon Stokley IND 68 1077 15.8 10 69
22 Eric Moulds BUF 88 1043 11.9 5 49
23 Nate Burleson MIN 68 1006 14.8 9 68
24 Hines Ward PIT 80 1004 12.6 4 58
25 Jerry Porter OAK 64 998 15.6 9 52
26 Keyshawn Johnson DAL 70 981 14.0 6 39
27 Jason Witten DAL 87 980 11.3 6 42
28 T.J. Houshmandzadeh CIN 73 978 13.4 4 62
29 Antonio Gates SD 81 964 11.9 13 72
30 Laveranues Coles WAS 90 950 10.6 1 45

[RashanGary]

At some point you have to ask yourself "How many #1 WR's are in the game?".

There are 32 teams in the league. With that FACT in mind, a #1 WR is someone who is among the NFL's top 32 players.

Not only is Donald a real #1. He is a real good #1.

[MadtownPacker]

Man, TT got a GREAT deal in a top 10 WRs and cleaned out the trash talking crybaby.

[RashanGary]

He took the security but Driver did not get some big fat gift like Javon was asking for. The more I consider this situation, the more I think Ted did right by the Packers organization.

If you consider the money that Thompson would have had to pay Javon, you would have to add Charles Woodson to the list of players GB got in return for Walker. Had T.T. paid him, we would not have the dough to have gotten Woodson.

We ended up with:

Woodson
Colledge
Blackmon
Martin
Jolly
Culver

For:

Walker and # 139 = Quinn Ojinnaka, OG

The Packers got rid of a head case and added some players with a lot of potential and Charles Woodson with the money they saved.

[RashanGary]

Think about it. Had the Packers given Javon 8 mil + per year like he got in Denver, we would not have the ching to afford Woodson. With that in mind, you can add Woodson to the list of players Thompson got for Walker...

[Bretsky]

Think about it. Had the Packers given Javon 8 mil + per year like he got in Denver, we would not have the ching to afford Woodson. With that in mind, you can add Woodson to the list of players Thompson got for Walker...

Had Ted Thompson kept Walker, he could easily have structured the Woodson deal different to land him. Rather than a huge first year salary he could have made that into a signing bonus. We could have had both if that was what TT orchestrated.

PLUS, look at that Denver deal. Tell me TT would not have jumped at that. IF JW doesn't recover from the injury they can bail after the first year. IF JW excels he gets his payday. TT does that deal in a second if him and JW could have worked out their differences.

[Bretsky]

On this poll, there is no doubt Driver can continue to be successful. He doesn't have to have Favre; the real question is will AROD come through enough post Favre to allow Driver to continue to put up the numbers.

[chain_gang]

On this poll, there is no doubt Driver can continue to be successful. He doesn't have to have Favre; the real question is will AROD come through enough post Favre to allow Driver to continue to put up the numbers.


Good point Bretsky, only time will tell for sure on that one. I would say the best thing that happend for Arod this year was Favre coming back, Rodgers can continue to get the reps in minicamp, training camp, and preseason games. This also gives him an added year at least to continue to learn the system. A lot of times the West coast offense can takes years to learn. The best thing for him right now is to keep working on that and get his confidence during practices and the preseason. Then the following year who knows what can happen, but I think Arod's chances to succeed increased a lot by Favre coming back this year. I think in the end Arod with prove his doubters wrong and become a solid QB, not HOF, but solid.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Didn't somebody report that Walker's deal is full of fluff though? Denver can cut him next year (if they had to) without hurting its future cap.

[RashanGary]

Yeah...

Walker didn't even get a new deal really. Denver is basically picking him up for the remainder of his rookie contract. They have him 1 mil up front but GB covered his pro-rated signing bonus so essentially he is giving Denver the same small cap hit he was giving GB.

I really don't think Walker had any intention of taking a deal like that from GB. After GB said no way to his big demands he refused to play. He went to Denver humbled and was forced into the wait and play it out category. The contract was somethign that was really nothing, but it allowed Walker to save a littel face becuase most don't realize it.

Having said that, people are saying we only got the 3 4 picks for Walker when really we got those 4 picks and all the extra cash that we didn't dole out for Walker to afford Woodson. Even if Thompson could have pushed salaryies into the future and still afforded Woodson, there would have come a day where we had to pay those guys. The way it is, next season is going to be another where we are double digit millions below the cap. If you don't include Woodson as one of the players the Packers recieve you can count some future players becasue the

FACT OF THE MATTER is that not resigning Walker saved the Packers 40 million dollars over 5 or 6 years and that buys you quite a bit in the NFL. Add that extra 40 mil to the draft picks we got and you have a pretty impressive gain in this whole ordeal.

[Scott Campbell]

Didn't somebody report that Walker's deal is full of fluff though? Denver can cut him next year (if they had to) without hurting its future cap.

He's middle aged. He's got character questions. And now he has an injury history. How can any team bet the farm on this guy?

Denver did the right thing. Throw him a few bucks this year. Allow his agent to say he just made Javon the richest receiver in all of football. All while preserving your out if things don't work.

[Scott Campbell]

TT does that deal in a second if him and JW could have worked out their differences.


Except that Javon is now saying that he had real problems with un-named team mates - not Brett. Even Javon is pointing the finger away from Thompson these days.

[RashanGary]

First of all, Walker and Drew were demanding top 5 money. Walker continued to lobby for top dollar. He lost a lot of bargaining power in Denver because of the way he got treated here so he was forced to sign that crappy deal. I don't think he would have signed that same deal here. I think he wanted more up front.

Now having said all that, Walker was going to be a very expensive player. Woodson makes 6 mil per year. Javon is oging to probably make 7 - 9. This is why I add Woodson to the list but I guess you should probably add the next big FA to the list becuase technically Walker wouldn't have gotten really expensive untill a year or two down the road. For the case of perspective though, we should add Woodson because he makes less than what Walker wanted.

[RashanGary]

Acctually, to be really fair we should subtract Colledge, Blackmon and the toher rookies from the 40 mil.

Those guys are probably going to make 25 mil over the next 5 years.

I guess we only saved about 15 in the long run to cut Walker. So it's probably more fair to add Pickett and Driver to that list.

[MadtownPacker]

Except that Javon is now saying that he had real problems with un-named team mates - not Brett. Even Javon is pointing the finger away from Thompson these days.

walker's interview are starting to be like a police interogation. First he starts off saying stuff against Favre, then he jumps to TT, now its his teammates?????

Dont do a crime with javon "traitor" walker, guaranteed he will snitch you off to get a reduced sentence.