Packers Placing "bounties"

[Ballboy]

From PFT.com

POSTED 11:55 a.m. EST, November 19, 2007

LEAGUE LOOKING AT WHETHER PACKERS ARE VIOLATING BOUNTY RULES

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello tells us that the league is looking into the question of whether members of the Green Bay Packers have violated the league's rules against bounties.

On Sunday, Bob Holtzmann of ESPN reported during Sunday NFL Countdown that a couple of Packers defensive backs had promised to pay each of the team's defensive linemen $500 if there were able to hold Vikings running back Adrian Peterson under 100 yards rushing in Week Ten.

They succeeded.

For Week Eleven, another $500 per lineman was promised if the Packers held the Panthers to under 60 yards rushing.

They failed.

We asked Aiello whether these extra payments counted against the salary cap, given that they were coming from teammates and not from the team. Aiello said that it's not a cap issue, but he explained that the league is looking at whether such promises are impermissible bounties.

The classic bounty is an offer of money or other benefits in exchange for injuring a player. But to the extent that limiting a player's production can be satisfied in part by, for example, tearing the player's LCL, it's probably not a good idea for incentives of this nature to be dangled in front of NFL players.

Stay tuned.



This is pretty funny!!!

[Scott Campbell]

That doesn't fit my definition of a bounty. A bounty is when you pay somebody to take a player out.


Though maybe this violates some part of the CBA.

[Brohm]

Seems a bit petty to me. It's not like they are paying a DL to have a QB slammed into the ground and his shoulder separated....

I see it as more along the lines of a QB taking his OL out to dinner after a good performance.

[Scott Campbell]

Seems a bit petty to me. It's not like they are paying a DL to have a QB slammed into the ground and his shoulder separated....

I see it as more along the lines of a QB taking his OL out to dinner after a good performance.


It seems far more like paying a player a bonus for making it to the Pro Bowl than it equates to a bounty.

[FritzDontBlitz]

I always thought bounty was the quicker picker upper.

Or some cheesy Charles Laughton movie.

[SkinBasket]

Does this mean Marino's watches and Isotoner gloves for his linemen should have been considered bounties for protecting his ass from getting sacked?

[gbpackfan]

This report is so stupid. I am of the belief that every team has players that make friendly bets with each other. And Florio should have written that it was Al Harris' tackle that injured AP, not a D-linemen. Al didn't "earn" any money by taking him out. Cheap shot by Florio that will have Vikings fans going nuts.

[RashanGary]

:bs:

[Harlan Huckleby]

This is impressively stupid. You could read this on Saturday Night Live's fake news show and it would fit right in.

[Carolina_Packer]

This just in...who cares? Much ado about doo doo. What's next? The NFL investigates locker room card games?

[Scott Campbell]

This does give me an idea.

I've got $100 for anybody who can take out Harlan's computer.

[hoosier]

This does give me an idea.

I've got $100 for anybody who can take out Harlan's computer.

If I could do that I wouldn't need your lousy $100.

[Scott Campbell]

ROFL

[mraynrand]

I wonder if this 'controversy' will last longer in the consciousness of the NFL league office than 'spygate.'

[Scott Campbell]

I wonder if this 'controversy' will last longer in the consciousness of the NFL league office than 'spygate.'



First it would have to get legs - meaning it would have to be picked up by some more credible news sources than PFT.

[mraynrand]

Are you telling me PFT isn't credible? I guess that's another reference I'll have to remove from my cv.

[Lurker64]

I'll pay every defender $100 who scores a defensive touchdown against Dallas. I'm not violating league rules, am I?

[Scott Campbell]

Are you telling me PFT isn't credible? I guess that's another reference I'll have to remove from my cv.


I think they've got more cred than they had. But unless some other sources start to run with the story, it'll die.

[Ballboy]

In MM news release, he was asked by a reporter about this story only he cited ESPN as the source.

[Brohm]

Bounty is such a loaded word. Just a headline grabber.

[RashanGary]

In MM news release, he was asked by a reporter about this story only he cited ESPN as the source.

Maybe the reporter was embarassed to cite PFT in the press conference. Seriously, if I was a reporter, I'd feel like silly running with a PFT story.

[The Leaper]

ESPN was the source.

It was a snipet from one of the on-site reporters during the pregame show, talking about how the DBs offered money to the DL for stopping the run. I remember hearing it in the background now, but didn't pay much attention to it at the time.

[AtlPackFan]

http://blogs.jsonline.com/packers/archive/2007/11/19/how-the-packers-should-handle-this.aspx

How the Packers should handle this
By Greg A. Bedard
Monday, Nov 19 2007, 02:12 PM
Green Bay - I can already hear the machine turning.

Since there are only so many times you can talk about the Cleveland Browns' field goal, or whether the New England Patriots once again ran up the score, this Green Bay Packers "bounty" story is going to get some traction -- if the Packers don't come out right away and stop it.

You combine a slow news day, even the slightest apperance that Adrian Peterson's injury had something to do with this and the Packers' 9-1 start to the season, and this story is served up on a platter to sports talk radio and, even worse, ESPN's and the NFL Network's abundance of talking head shows that need to be filled with hot air. They absolutely love this kind of stuff and are going to beat it to death.

But there's still time for the Packers to halt this "story" from becoming fodder for the masses.

The Packers are somewhat hamstrung by the fact that coach Mike McCarthy has already talked to the media, general manager Ted Thompson hasn't been heard from yet, and the players are off.

But here's what the Packers need to do right now:

1) Whichever players were involved, find them and make them available to the media. All they have to do is explain how this was just done in good fun, they weren't aware of the rules at the time, and now that they are, they are very sorry and it will never happen again. Maybe they could donate the money to charity;

2) McCarthy needs to speak again -- in an informal setting, not a press conference -- and come out strong against it.

The more time you give something like this time to breathe -- by not talking -- the worse it becomes. Without fail.

Most of us know what happened here. It's been done in locker rooms before and probably will be again. This isn't Buddy Ryan putting bounties on the heads of Luis Zendajas and Troy Aikman for the purpose of hurting them. Or harkening back to some ugly times in the Packers-Bears rivalry when Forrest Gregg was coach. These Packers seem to have been just making things interesting in the locker room.

It's not a crime, but it is against the rules.

And the longer the Packers go without making amends, the louder the talking heads are going to get. And all that will give anyone is a headache.

[gbpackfan]

http://blogs.jsonline.com/packers/archive/2007/11/19/how-the-packers-should-handle-this.aspx

How the Packers should handle this
By Greg A. Bedard
Monday, Nov 19 2007, 02:12 PM
Green Bay - I can already hear the machine turning.

Since there are only so many times you can talk about the Cleveland Browns' field goal, or whether the New England Patriots once again ran up the score, this Green Bay Packers "bounty" story is going to get some traction -- if the Packers don't come out right away and stop it.

You combine a slow news day, even the slightest apperance that Adrian Peterson's injury had something to do with this and the Packers' 9-1 start to the season, and this story is served up on a platter to sports talk radio and, even worse, ESPN's and the NFL Network's abundance of talking head shows that need to be filled with hot air. They absolutely love this kind of stuff and are going to beat it to death.

But there's still time for the Packers to halt this "story" from becoming fodder for the masses.

The Packers are somewhat hamstrung by the fact that coach Mike McCarthy has already talked to the media, general manager Ted Thompson hasn't been heard from yet, and the players are off.

But here's what the Packers need to do right now:

1) Whichever players were involved, find them and make them available to the media. All they have to do is explain how this was just done in good fun, they weren't aware of the rules at the time, and now that they are, they are very sorry and it will never happen again. Maybe they could donate the money to charity;

2) McCarthy needs to speak again -- in an informal setting, not a press conference -- and come out strong against it.

The more time you give something like this time to breathe -- by not talking -- the worse it becomes. Without fail.

Most of us know what happened here. It's been done in locker rooms before and probably will be again. This isn't Buddy Ryan putting bounties on the heads of Luis Zendajas and Troy Aikman for the purpose of hurting them. Or harkening back to some ugly times in the Packers-Bears rivalry when Forrest Gregg was coach. These Packers seem to have been just making things interesting in the locker room.

It's not a crime, but it is against the rules.

And the longer the Packers go without making amends, the louder the talking heads are going to get. And all that will give anyone is a headache.


The more I read Bedard, the more I hate him. Thanks for the input but I am sure the Packers can take care of the situation themselves.

[Rastak]

This report is so stupid. I am of the belief that every team has players that make friendly bets with each other. And Florio should have written that it was Al Harris' tackle that injured AP, not a D-linemen. Al didn't "earn" any money by taking him out. Cheap shot by Florio that will have Vikings fans going nuts.


I don't think it was Florio taking shots.

ESPN
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3119097



Packers' in-house incentives draw NFL's attention
Associated Press

Updated: November 19, 2007, 2:58 PM ET

GREEN BAY, Wis. -- NFL officials are investigating whether Green Bay Packers players offered payments to teammates for achieving specific defensive goals.

League rules prohibit teams and players "from offering or accepting bonuses to a player for his or his team's performance against a particular team, a particular opposing player or players, or a particular group of an opposing team."

League spokesman Greg Aiello confirmed the investigation Monday.
ESPN reported that Packers defensive backs offered to pay the team's defensive linemen $500 each if they were able to hold Minnesota running back Adrian Peterson under 100 yards rushing two weeks ago, and another $500 for holding Carolina to under 60 yards rushing as a team on Sunday.

Peterson was held to 45 yards rushing before he left the Vikings' Nov. 11 loss to the Packers with an injury. But the Panthers rushed for 131 yards in Sunday's loss to Green Bay.

Packers coach Mike McCarthy said Monday morning he was not aware of the situation, but had not yet spoken to general manager Ted Thompson.

"I have no knowledge of that," McCarthy said. "I have not been made aware of that. I haven't talked to Ted today, so if it's something that happened this morning, we have not spoken."

Packers players were not available to the media on Monday after their 31-17 victory over Carolina.

[Scott Campbell]

Well I hope this is one of those wearing your socks too high kind of rules infractions where the penalty won't be too stiff. It looks like the story might have legs.

[digitaldean]

Good Lord, it's not Buddy Ryan with a bounty on the kicker's head (done in the Philly-Dallas rivalry in the 90s).

Issue a reprimand and be done with it.

:roll:

[the_idle_threat]

http://blogs.jsonline.com/packers/archive/2007/11/19/how-the-packers-should-handle-this.aspx

How the Packers should handle this
By Greg A. Bedard
Monday, Nov 19 2007, 02:12 PM
Green Bay - I can already hear the machine turning.

Since there are only so many times you can talk about the Cleveland Browns' field goal, or whether the New England Patriots once again ran up the score, this Green Bay Packers "bounty" story is going to get some traction -- if the Packers don't come out right away and stop it.

You combine a slow news day, even the slightest apperance that Adrian Peterson's injury had something to do with this and the Packers' 9-1 start to the season, and this story is served up on a platter to sports talk radio and, even worse, ESPN's and the NFL Network's abundance of talking head shows that need to be filled with hot air. They absolutely love this kind of stuff and are going to beat it to death.

But there's still time for the Packers to halt this "story" from becoming fodder for the masses.

The Packers are somewhat hamstrung by the fact that coach Mike McCarthy has already talked to the media, general manager Ted Thompson hasn't been heard from yet, and the players are off.

But here's what the Packers need to do right now:

1) Whichever players were involved, find them and make them available to the media. All they have to do is explain how this was just done in good fun, they weren't aware of the rules at the time, and now that they are, they are very sorry and it will never happen again. Maybe they could donate the money to charity;

2) McCarthy needs to speak again -- in an informal setting, not a press conference -- and come out strong against it.

The more time you give something like this time to breathe -- by not talking -- the worse it becomes. Without fail.

Most of us know what happened here. It's been done in locker rooms before and probably will be again. This isn't Buddy Ryan putting bounties on the heads of Luis Zendajas and Troy Aikman for the purpose of hurting them. Or harkening back to some ugly times in the Packers-Bears rivalry when Forrest Gregg was coach. These Packers seem to have been just making things interesting in the locker room.

It's not a crime, but it is against the rules.

And the longer the Packers go without making amends, the louder the talking heads are going to get. And all that will give anyone is a headache.


The more I read Bedard, the more I hate him. Thanks for the input but I am sure the Packers can take care of the situation themselves.

*Bedard runs to his bedroom and buries his head in a pillow, sobbing*

[falco]

http://blogs.jsonline.com/packers/archive/2007/11/19/how-the-packers-should-handle-this.aspx

How the Packers should handle this
By Greg A. Bedard
Monday, Nov 19 2007, 02:12 PM
Green Bay - I can already hear the machine turning.

Since there are only so many times you can talk about the Cleveland Browns' field goal, or whether the New England Patriots once again ran up the score, this Green Bay Packers "bounty" story is going to get some traction -- if the Packers don't come out right away and stop it.

You combine a slow news day, even the slightest apperance that Adrian Peterson's injury had something to do with this and the Packers' 9-1 start to the season, and this story is served up on a platter to sports talk radio and, even worse, ESPN's and the NFL Network's abundance of talking head shows that need to be filled with hot air. They absolutely love this kind of stuff and are going to beat it to death.

But there's still time for the Packers to halt this "story" from becoming fodder for the masses.

The Packers are somewhat hamstrung by the fact that coach Mike McCarthy has already talked to the media, general manager Ted Thompson hasn't been heard from yet, and the players are off.

But here's what the Packers need to do right now:

1) Whichever players were involved, find them and make them available to the media. All they have to do is explain how this was just done in good fun, they weren't aware of the rules at the time, and now that they are, they are very sorry and it will never happen again. Maybe they could donate the money to charity;

2) McCarthy needs to speak again -- in an informal setting, not a press conference -- and come out strong against it.

The more time you give something like this time to breathe -- by not talking -- the worse it becomes. Without fail.

Most of us know what happened here. It's been done in locker rooms before and probably will be again. This isn't Buddy Ryan putting bounties on the heads of Luis Zendajas and Troy Aikman for the purpose of hurting them. Or harkening back to some ugly times in the Packers-Bears rivalry when Forrest Gregg was coach. These Packers seem to have been just making things interesting in the locker room.

It's not a crime, but it is against the rules.

And the longer the Packers go without making amends, the louder the talking heads are going to get. And all that will give anyone is a headache.


The more I read Bedard, the more I hate him. Thanks for the input but I am sure the Packers can take care of the situation themselves.

*Bedard runs to his bedroom and buries his head in a pillow, sobbing*

Like him or not, Bedard makes a good point. Better to deal with it and put it behind you, than let it spiral out of control.

[Iron Mike]

http://www.slap-shot.com/killercarlson.jpg

[Reggie is trying to get his pre-game nap]
McGrath: Are you crazy? We could all end up in the clinker for this. You can't put a bounty on a man's head.
Reggie Dunlop: I just did.
[Hangs up, Phone rings again]
Dave 'Killer' Carlson: Coach, I want that hundred dollars.
Reggie Dunlop: Ya gotta earn it, Killer.
Dave 'Killer' Carlson: My attitude's right.

[the_idle_threat]

I think this is a non-story based upon a mistaken interpretation of the rules. Keep in mind, the league has not said they think any rule was broken; they are just investigating.

It's media idiots who are spinning it like there have been actual rule violations.

I think the Packers would be very premature to admit wrongdoing when there really wasn't any. They should let the league investigate, argue their case in front of investigators as to why these weren't "bounties," and then let the league conclude its investigation with an announcement that there was no wrongdoing.

[BradStrand]

Couldn't care less. This is yellow shoes.

[the_idle_threat]

I think this is a non-story based upon a mistaken interpretation of the rules. Keep in mind, the league has not said they think any rule was broken; they are just investigating.

It's media idiots who are spinning it like there have been actual rule violations.

I think the Packers would be very premature to admit wrongdoing when there really wasn't any. They should let the league investigate, argue their case in front of investigators as to why these weren't "bounties," and then let the league conclude its investigation with an announcement that there was no wrongdoing.

:oops: Okay, I hadn't read this yet (from the ESPN article above):


League rules prohibit teams and players "from offering or accepting bonuses to a player for his or his team's performance against a particular team, a particular opposing player or players, or a particular group of an opposing team."

If these are actually the league rules, then it looks like there was a violation after all, although I agree with BradStrand that it's of the "yellow shoes" variety. Kind of a ticky-tacky rule, as it seems to conflate performance incentives with bounties.

[swede]

http://blogs.jsonline.com/packers/archive/2007/11/19/how-the-packers-should-handle-this.aspx

How the Packers should handle this
By Greg A. Bedard
Monday, Nov 19 2007, 02:12 PM

Green Bay - I can already hear the machine turning...

...this Green Bay Packers "bounty" story is going to get some traction -- if the Packers don't come out right away and stop it.

I don't believe this. Green Bay should respond to league inquiries--not media blather.


...But here's what the Packers need to do right now:

1) Whichever players were involved, find them and make them available to the media...

No. All communications go through MM--period!


2) McCarthy needs to speak again -- in an informal setting, not a press conference -- and come out strong against it.

Wait for the press conference. He'll be asked. He can respond fully then, at a time when he's answering any other questions the press may have. And I fully expect him to defend his players--not throw them under the bus.


The more time you give something like this time to breathe -- by not talking -- the worse it becomes. Without fail.

Sez you.



It's not a crime, but it is against the rules.

It may be, but please quote the precise rule and let's see if the rule has actually been broken before you convict the players--asshole!


And the longer the Packers go without making amends, the louder the talking heads are going to get.

Sez you!

Bedard had been doing okay with me, but this was East Coast bullshit journalism/

[gbpackfan]

Leroy Butler was asked about the so called "bounties."

Q. It has been reported that some of the Packers' defensive backs have set up incentives for their defensive line in which they'll pay cash or gift certificates if they'll keep the opponent from rushing for a specific number of yards. Did this happen when you were a player and is it ethical?

A. Oh yeah, we did that all the time. It was fun. We would put money in a pot and whoever got the interception would win the pot. If we held Barry Sanders, that one time we held him to negative yards, some of our offensive guys were giving us money. It's different if I get $100 bucks from like Brett Favre or Al Harris or Reggie White than getting 100 grand from the team. It's different. The guys are showing you how much they appreciate what you've done. I loved that. It's almost like you're playing a game within itself. There's more incentive when it comes from your teammate. It's like him saying, 'I need you this week. Every week I need you but this week is special. We have a guy who's coming in and has been destroying every team. We'll put some money in the pot and whoever gets a big hit or whoever stops him, great. Here's some cash.' When your teammates do something like that it makes you feel good. I think it's an awesome gesture

[FritzDontBlitz]

The NFL is the ultimate micromanaging monopoly.

Next there will be fines for using a toothpaste not endorsed by the NFL and then smiling during a game.

Big Brother, thy name is Roger Goodell.

[MadtownPacker]

When your teammates do something like that it makes you feel good. I think it's an awesome gestureIf Leroy thinks it's great I think it is too!

[BF4MVP]

This is a load of crap. Nothing wrong with giving your teammates a little extra incentive..It's not like they want them to hurt the opponent, they just want them to stop them...

[CaliforniaCheez]

http://www.slap-shot.com/killercarlson.jpg

[Reggie is trying to get his pre-game nap]
McGrath: Are you crazy? We could all end up in the clinker for this. You can't put a bounty on a man's head.
Reggie Dunlop: I just did.
[Hangs up, Phone rings again]
Dave 'Killer' Carlson: Coach, I want that hundred dollars.
Reggie Dunlop: Ya gotta earn it, Killer.
Dave 'Killer' Carlson: My attitude's right.

"A hundred bucks of my own money to to the first of my guys that really nails Tim McKracken."


This is very similar to what the Giants D-line has done this year except their money was pooled among themselves. The Packers have one position group pooling money for another group.

The word bounty was used to inflame the small brains of viking customers.
The D-line did not injure Peterson or Johnson.

[pbmax]

OK, somebody owes the DBs big time for blabbing big time.

And everyone needs to stop being so defensive. Your talking points are as follows:

1. "Players have been doing this for decades. Even before Brett Favre."

2. "Neither the team nor the players had any intention of injuring anyone. The goal was performance based, not Injured Reserve based."

3. "Neither the team nor the coaches condone breaking the rules, and this rule will be clarified to the entire team this week."

And when the injury question rears its head:

4. "Al Harris is a seasoned pro. He has no incentive to cost himself additional money AND risk a penalty and suspension that might cost him game checks in the hundreds of thousands."

5. "I think you heard our team speak with respect for Adrian Peterson after the game. Several mentions were made that the team wanted to face his best and see if they could stop him."

[4and12to12and4]

Betting on games you are involved in is a no-no in my book. See: Pete Rose

[The Leaper]

This is a big bunch of nothing.

Every team does this. It has gone on for years. It simply should remain hush-hush and on the down low.

Yawn.

[CaliforniaCheez]

OK, somebody owes the DBs big time for blabbing big time.

And everyone needs to stop being so defensive. Your talking points are as follows:

1. "Players have been doing this for decades. Even before Brett Favre."

2. "Neither the team nor the players had any intention of injuring anyone. The goal was performance based, not Injured Reserve based."

3. "Neither the team nor the coaches condone breaking the rules, and this rule will be clarified to the entire team this week."

And when the injury question rears its head:

4. "Al Harris is a seasoned pro. He has no incentive to cost himself additional money AND risk a penalty and suspension that might cost him game checks in the hundreds of thousands."

5. "I think you heard our team speak with respect for Adrian Peterson after the game. Several mentions were made that the team wanted to face his best and see if they could stop him."

The Packer Radio Network guys discussed this during the pregame show.

They thought it was a nice thing and talked for awhile about it. A QB doing something nice for the O-line is a tradition.

I think the NFL will tell the Packers to not be so open about such things.

At worst the players involved will be fined.

[Merlin]

My understanding is that the CB's offered the "bounty" and the DL did limit Peterson under the century mark. But it was a CB that made the hit on Peterson so how could this be construed as a Bounty? Wouldn't Harris be better off missing that tackle? I mean it probably cost him 2K for the DL payment.

I don't think it would have been an issue if AP didn't get injured. I am sure this type of thing happens all the time. QB's take their OL out to dinner, and those boys can eat. I am sure the price tage for that well exceeds %00 per player!

[FritzDontBlitz]

OK, somebody owes the DBs big time for blabbing big time.

And everyone needs to stop being so defensive. Your talking points are as follows:

1. "Players have been doing this for decades. Even before Brett Favre."

2. "Neither the team nor the players had any intention of injuring anyone. The goal was performance based, not Injured Reserve based."

3. "Neither the team nor the coaches condone breaking the rules, and this rule will be clarified to the entire team this week."

And when the injury question rears its head:

4. "Al Harris is a seasoned pro. He has no incentive to cost himself additional money AND risk a penalty and suspension that might cost him game checks in the hundreds of thousands."

5. "I think you heard our team speak with respect for Adrian Peterson after the game. Several mentions were made that the team wanted to face his best and see if they could stop him."

Talking points are for people who can't think for themselves.

Or politicians.

Same difference I guess....

[SkinBasket]

ATH has got the bounty "story" up next, taglined with "Did some packers earn some extra cheese stopping AP?" Can't wait to see how they treat this.

[swede]

Mike and Mike were blabbing about it on Wednesday morning.

They recapped the situation fairly accurately in ten seconds, and, since the accurate version is a non-story, they completely misrepresented the situation for the rest of the time by creating spurious analogies involving the deliberate injury of opposing players.

Blah, blah, blah...American journalism.

[MJZiggy]

Between this and the pregame dancing...welcome to the No Fun League.

[Jimx29]

This story wouldn't even be news if AP hadn't been hurt in the game.