Rayner having troubles in KC

[digitaldean]

For those who were upset with Crosby's misses....

Rayner missed 2 of 3 at Indy indoors.
______
From Herm Edwards press conf. on a variety of topics.....

On the status of place-kicker Dave Rayner, who missed two of three kicks at Indianapolis:

He’s our kicker right now. He’s going to continue to kick, and hopefully he can make some. If we have to get closer for him, we’ll have to get closer to him.

[MadtownPacker]

Well luckily they probably aren't going to the playoffs. The Packers look like they probably are going so they need to be confident in Crosby. He is kinda shaky. He better be relax when his number gets called in a big game.

[Merlin]

Crosby seems to make the same mistake the entire game. If he is hitting right, he continues to hit right. If he is hitting left he continues to hit left. I am sure all that will come with time. I don't think it's been a great week for some very good kickers. Look at Vinitari, he over compensated each time and missed what? 4 in a row?. Crosby seems to be not wanting to make that mistake so I suspect his corrections are under compensating. He will find the right compensation level.

Rayner isn't under performing by any means. But of course those that are all high on Crosby won't see it that way. Anything to bash a former player they don't like.

I like Crosby but I also liked Rayner. I would have been happy either way. I like Crosby's more consistent kick offs and hopefully the other mistakes he has made with correct themselves with time. I feel the same way about Rayner although kicking in KC is a lot different then kicking at Lambeau. I think he needs another season in the same environment to see what he is made of.

Comparison:

Crosby 18/22 82%
Rayner 13/17 76%

Crosby 12/13 20+
Rayner 9/11 20+

Crosby 5/8 40+
Rayner 4/6 40+

Crosby 50 kick offs for 3,129 yards 62.6 ave with 10 touch backs, return average 20 yards, 1 kick out of bounds.

Rayner 32 kick offs for 2,206 yards 68.9 ave with 3 touch backs, return average 22.5 yards, 2 out of bounds kicks.

They both have had a field goal blocked although nfl.com doesn't list Crosby's for whatever reason.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Crosby seems to make the same mistake the entire game. If he is hitting right, he continues to hit right. If he is hitting left he continues to hit left. I am sure all that will come with time. I don't think it's been a great week for some very good kickers. Look at Vinitari, he over compensated each time and missed what? 4 in a row?. Crosby seems to be not wanting to make that mistake so I suspect his corrections are under compensating. He will find the right compensation level.

Rayner isn't under performing by any means. But of course those that are all high on Crosby won't see it that way. Anything to bash a former player they don't like.

I like Crosby but I also liked Rayner. I would have been happy either way. I like Crosby's more consistent kick offs and hopefully the other mistakes he has made with correct themselves with time. I feel the same way about Rayner although kicking in KC is a lot different then kicking at Lambeau. I think he needs another season in the same environment to see what he is made of.

Comparison:

Crosby 18/22 82%
Rayner 13/17 76%

Crosby 12/13 20+
Rayner 9/11 20+

Crosby 5/8 40+
Rayner 4/6 40+

Crosby 50 kick offs for 3,129 yards 62.6 ave with 10 touch backs, return average 20 yards, 1 kick out of bounds.

Rayner 32 kick offs for 2,206 yards 68.9 ave with 3 touch backs, return average 22.5 yards, 2 out of bounds kicks.

They both have had a field goal blocked although nfl.com doesn't list Crosby's for whatever reason.

Well, here is another one of Merlin's fine posts. Except it is flawed as always.

Let's examine. Hmm, Mason seems to make the same mistake throughout the game. In order to make that type of determination one would need some games to evaluate him. Do we have this type of data. Not really.

First, he hasn't even played ONE PROFESSIONAL SEASON.

Ok, but let's just look at the small sample size and go from there.

In the preseason he missed one field goal. He didn't attempt one after that miss, so we can't determine anything from that.

In the regular season he is 19/25 (i don't know why you can't use the most recent data). He missed on against the Giants and didn't attempt another. Nothing can be learned from that. In the washington game he missed two. Against KC he missed one. Against Carolina he missed 2.

Now, i will be honest and say that I don't know about the misses..in other words, were the really long field goals, or did he correct himself in the KC game which would disprove Merlins inane thoughts.

What we do know is that in 2 games he missed 2 field goals. In one of those games, according to NFL.com a fg was blocked. So, we can't examine self correction.

That leaves us with ONE FREAKING GAME to make a determination. That is just asinine.

What we also know is that merlin doesn't use current data.

FG%. Crosby 76%, Rayner 70%.

We also know that Mason has kicked in 10 games vs. 9.

We know that he has had more chances from outside the 30 which will result in lowering your percentage including 1-2 from over 50. Rayner is 0-1. Funny, isn't that what Herm was saying about Rayner...we will have to get closer for him. Is anyone saying that about Mason?

We also know that merlin skews the data as he doesn't break down the kicks, in other words plus 40 is all the same to him. He doesn't want you to know that rayner is 6-8 from 30-39 as opposed to mason at 8-9 from that range.

Nor does he mention that Rayner's longest kick this year is 49 yards, whereas Mason's is 53.

Mason is averaging 62.9 on kickoffs, 56 kickoffs, 11 tb, 43 returns and 19.8 on returns.

Rayner is averaging 68.9 on kickoffs, 35 kickoffs, 3 tb, 30 returns and 22.1 returns.

What does the smart packer fan glean from this. Rayner either has shorter hang time or something mysterious is happening as kick returners are deeper in their own territory yet somehow manage to return it for more yards.

What else does the smart packer fan realize from this? That mason's tb are 19.6 percent. Rayner is at 8.57%.

Or that 85.71 of Rayner's KOs are returned as opposed to 76.78.

Case closed. Any objective football fan could tell you which kicker AT THIS MOMENT is the better player.

[Scott Campbell]

So far it appears that the Packers kept the right guy. But that is subject to change because its still early.

[Tarlam!]

Well, here is another one of Merlin's fine posts. Except it is flawed as always.

Let's examine.

Y'know, I think your post, TB, is crap. You went out of your way to ridicule a fellow poster. That's just cheap. I know, because I am guilty of the same and I am rehabbing!!

Merlin stated his opinion, which I happen to disagree with about 99.9% of the time. I guess he disagrees with my opinion 99.999% of the time. But he never ever went out of his way to make me look like an idiot.

I respect Merlin; I disagree with most of what he writes, but he remains true to his heart and he is a Packer Fan. I should respect Woody non those grounds, but, that would be asking a lot.

Merlin at least is plausible in his inaccuracy!

[the_idle_threat]

2nded.

And after all that bullshit in your post, TB, the bottom line is that neither guy has kicked enough to reasonably compare, so you're just as wrong as you say Merlin is.

It's not that clear who's better until they both have a full season. We can go back to last year's numbers for Rayner, perhaps, but the sample size is too small for Crosby, and he hasn't yet faced the test of truly poor weather.

[GoPackGo]

I think Tyrone sits in his office in Snobbsdale all day long waiting for Merlin to post so he can argue with him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Is it okay for me to say that I agree with the point that Tyrone was making?
:D

[the_idle_threat]

No.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

2nded.

And after all that bullshit in your post, TB, the bottom line is that neither guy has kicked enough to reasonably compare, so you're just as wrong as you say Merlin is.

It's not that clear who's better until they both have a full season. We can go back to last year's numbers for Rayner, perhaps, but the sample size is too small for Crosby, and he hasn't yet faced the test of truly poor weather.

That is why, if you FREAKING read, i said at this moment. I even capitalized it. What more do you want? What part of that don't you understand?

Furthermore, I stated at the beginning he hasn't even played one season. But, to give Merlin the benefit of the doubt I used HIS criteria. THIS SEASON. I wouldn't spout off and give an opinion on a player that doesn't have a track record. That is the reason you dont' see my making asinine statements about whether Arod is good or Harrell is bad.

There is no bullshit in my post. It is completely fair and objective. If the data skewed towards rayner i would be backing merlin's post.

The point i was making wasn't whether Rayner or Mason was better, but that trying to determine how Mason was compensating was impossible.

If there is one thing i can't stand is people commenting on that which has no factual basis. Just taking what they perceive and then telling us it is truth. Perception is reality, but only reality for the perceiver. In other words, it is easy to look at a player and say, "he doesn't try, he looks lazy, etc..therefore he doesn't care," whereas someone else can say, "he is smooth, effortless, he doesn't show emotion but that doesn't mean he doesn't care."

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think Tyrone sits in his office in Snobbsdale all day long waiting for Merlin to post so he can argue with him.

Tyrone has made prolly 3 posts regarding merlin. Hardly basis for you to make the assumption.

Tyrone lives in Snobbsdale, however, tyrone does't work there. Just an FYI so you can be accurate when you make stupid statements like this.

I reviewed and I missed another post. Make that 4. Course it is hard not post a rebuttal when merlin is claiming that mendenhall could be a tight end or wr, when he is a five eleven running back and the 15th rated draftee. But, feel free to defend his idiocy.

[GoPackGo]

Tyrone has made prolly 3 posts regarding merlin. Hardly basis for you to make the assumption.
keep up the crack smoking, cracker

[the_idle_threat]

2nded.

And after all that bullshit in your post, TB, the bottom line is that neither guy has kicked enough to reasonably compare, so you're just as wrong as you say Merlin is.

It's not that clear who's better until they both have a full season. We can go back to last year's numbers for Rayner, perhaps, but the sample size is too small for Crosby, and he hasn't yet faced the test of truly poor weather.

That is why, if you FREAKING read, i said at this moment. I even capitalized it. What more do you want? What part of that don't you understand?

There is no bullshit in my post. It is completely fair and objective. If the data skewed towards rayner i would be backing merlin's post.

The point i was making wasn't whether Rayner or Mason was better, but that trying to determine how Mason was compensating was impossible.

You start by saying there aren't enough stats to make a fair comparison (which is correct) and then you go on to compare them anyway, using the same stats you acknowlegde as insufficient, and draw a conclusion as to which one is better. Your caveat that this is supposedly limited to RIGHT NOW is bullshit by the truckload. I swear, people must absolutely hate being downwind of you.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Tyrone has made prolly 3 posts regarding merlin. Hardly basis for you to make the assumption.
keep up the crack smoking, cracker

Whatever. Find the posts? Otherwise you are just a big talker.

Offhand memory: One post regarding TT and must of that was talking about TT, one post on rayner, one post on cornerbacks.

Till you can show otherwise, STFU.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

2nded.

And after all that bullshit in your post, TB, the bottom line is that neither guy has kicked enough to reasonably compare, so you're just as wrong as you say Merlin is.

It's not that clear who's better until they both have a full season. We can go back to last year's numbers for Rayner, perhaps, but the sample size is too small for Crosby, and he hasn't yet faced the test of truly poor weather.

That is why, if you FREAKING read, i said at this moment. I even capitalized it. What more do you want? What part of that don't you understand?

There is no bullshit in my post. It is completely fair and objective. If the data skewed towards rayner i would be backing merlin's post.

The point i was making wasn't whether Rayner or Mason was better, but that trying to determine how Mason was compensating was impossible.

You start by saying there aren't enough stats to make a fair comparison (which is correct) and then you go on to compare them anyway, using the same stats you acknowlegde as insufficient, and draw a conclusion as to which one is better. Your caveat that this is supposedly limited to RIGHT NOW is bullshit by the truckload. I swear, people must absolutely hate being downwind of you.

Please read my expanded explanation.

Again, what part of the sentence "at this moment" don't you understand.

People love being downwind of me, but for most like yourself, downwind isn't the problem....it is that i tower above them intellectually.

[the_idle_threat]

People love being downwind of me, but for most like yourself, downwind isn't the problem....it is that i tower above them intellectually.

Spoken like a true overcompensater. But because I read it on an Internet message board, it must be true! :lol:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Well, here is another one of Merlin's fine posts. Except it is flawed as always.

Let's examine.

Y'know, I think your post, TB, is crap. You went out of your way to ridicule a fellow poster. That's just cheap. I know, because I am guilty of the same and I am rehabbing!!

Merlin stated his opinion, which I happen to disagree with about 99.9% of the time. I guess he disagrees with my opinion 99.999% of the time. But he never ever went out of his way to make me look like an idiot.

I respect Merlin; I disagree with most of what he writes, but he remains true to his heart and he is a Packer Fan. I should respect Woody non those grounds, but, that would be asking a lot.

Merlin at least is plausible in his inaccuracy!

Post maybe crap, but the facts speak for themselves.

Sorry, but if you want to tolerate stupidity that is your choice. I'm calling game on bullshit. Life is hard enough without having some mouth breather propogate bullshit which only makes it harder to discern the truth.

Ridicule: oh, i'm sorry. I guess i've never seen merlin or woody do the same. You get what you give.

Rehab: That is for quitters. They only rehad i'm interested in is in vegas.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

People love being downwind of me, but for most like yourself, downwind isn't the problem....it is that i tower above them intellectually.

Spoken like a true overcompensater. But because I read it on an Internet message board, it must be true! :lol:

I am overcompensating. My mommy never bought me that pony i wanted and all the girls laugh at my meager 9 inches.

So, I see, you get to make judgements on me based on my posts..i see. Overcompensating, like you would know. Glad to see you are using your AA degree in psych from Tallahasee Juco.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

So far it appears that the Packers kept the right guy. But that is subject to change because its still early.

Ding ding. Mr. Campbell gets it.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Is it okay for me to say that I agree with the point that Tyrone was making?
:D

Don't agree with me. Just agree with the stats. Tyrone didn't make up the stats. The stats speak for themselves.

[GoPackGo]

So far it appears that the Packers kept the right guy. But that is subject to change because its still early.

I also agree with this post.

[the_idle_threat]

People love being downwind of me, but for most like yourself, downwind isn't the problem....it is that i tower above them intellectually.

Spoken like a true overcompensater. But because I read it on an Internet message board, it must be true! :lol:

I am overcompensating. My mommy never bought me that pony i wanted and all the girls laugh at my meager 9 inches.

So, I see, you get to make judgements on me based on my posts..i see. Overcompensating, like you would know. Glad to see you are using your AA degree in psych from Tallahasee Juco.

No different than you judging Merlin. I understand that Merlin sets himself up for it by being so mistaken and yet so certain a lot of the time, but all that makes him is an easy mark. Kicking sand in his face is the act of a bully.

So here you come along, saying you "tower above" people intellectually and you supposedly have a "meager 9 inches" (although I admit that is a pretty small neck size *snicker*) and you wanna say you're not overcompensating?

LOL

Thanks for the laugh, TB. You are an entertaining dude.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

People love being downwind of me, but for most like yourself, downwind isn't the problem....it is that i tower above them intellectually.

Spoken like a true overcompensater. But because I read it on an Internet message board, it must be true! :lol:

I am overcompensating. My mommy never bought me that pony i wanted and all the girls laugh at my meager 9 inches.

So, I see, you get to make judgements on me based on my posts..i see. Overcompensating, like you would know. Glad to see you are using your AA degree in psych from Tallahasee Juco.

No different than you judging Merlin. I understand that Merlin sets himself up for it by being so mistaken and yet so certain a lot of the time, but all that makes him is an easy mark. Kicking sand in his face is the act of a bully.

So here you come along, saying you "tower above" people intellectually and you supposedly have a "meager 9 inches" (although I admit that is a pretty small neck size *snicker*) and you wanna say you're not overcompensating?

LOL

Thanks for the laugh, TB. You are an entertaining dude.

Bully? That would be his role. I have pretty much been silent on these boards. I read and watched. Finally i have had enough of the bs.

I didn't post my opinion. I let the stats speak for themselves. But, if you are going to set yourself up as more knowledgeable than others and make stupid statements I'm going to destroy those arguments. I am not going to give that person an inch. That is why i used this season's stats. If i just said half a season is inconclusive, then that leaves the door open for more interpretation or justifying using the data.

He set the criteria. I merely used it to refute it. If you wanna pussyfoot around, that is your choice. But, as for me....what is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women. :twisted:

Does that mean every post he or others write is going to be analyzed. NO.

But, I didn't judge him. I kept the whole thing in the real of his post.

Lastly, I didn't just "come along, saying you "tower above" people intellectually," that was in jest to your barb at me. If you wanna dish it out, you should be able to take it. If you wanna fight merlin's battles then be prepared.

And, if you can't tell one someone is being sarcastic then you are just proving that I tower above you intellectually.

Btw, 9 inches wasn't my necksize, which i'm sure you knew. It was merely the circumference of my willy. I'm not that well endowed. Just sportin a average 8 inches. :cry:

You keep setting them up, and i keep knockin them down. :P

[Scott Campbell]

I think too many of you guys are starting to behave like me. And no, that's not a good thing.


Peyton Manning would laugh at us arguing over idiot kickers.

[the_idle_threat]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah, it's funny that neither of us is really being serious, and yet---because these things don't translate well in print---it seems we're dead serious. :idea:

Have a happy Thankgiving, Tyrone.

[esoxx]

Rayner doesn't try hard, he's lazy and therefore he doesn't care. That's for sure.

[GoPackGo]

Peyton Manning would laugh at us arguing over idiot kickers.

i think we are argueing over idiot posters.

[the_idle_threat]

Peyton Manning would laugh at us arguing over idiot kickers.

i think we are argueing over idiot posters.

Perhaps, but he's OUR idiot poster. :P

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Peyton Manning would laugh at us arguing over idiot kickers.

i think we are argueing over idiot posters.

Perhaps, but he's OUR idiot poster. :P

You two love Merlin. Get his balls outta your mouth. :oops:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah, it's funny that neither of us is really being serious, and yet---because these things don't translate well in print---it seems we're dead serious. :idea:

Have a happy Thankgiving, Tyrone.

Thank you, and right back at ya.

[Bretsky]

Crosby is better than Rayner.

[Rastak]

Crosby is better than Rayner.


It certainly seems that way.

[MadtownPacker]

Crosby is better than Rayner.My complant against Rayner was how he was almost automatic for a 45 yarder but would always seem to miss the easy 25 yarder. Crosby is kind of making me feel the same about him. He needs to get his shit in gear.

[FritzDontBlitz]

To those who may not be scoring at home, the man living in the cardboard condo just wiped the floor with you bitches. I am fuckin' dyin' over here.

TB, the next bowl's on me.

Happy Thanksgiving, ya'll...

[Rastak]

To those who may not be scoring at home, the man living in the cardboard condo just wiped the floor with you bitches. I am fuckin' dyin' over here.

TB, the next bowl's on me.

Happy Thanksgiving, ya'll...


So is that a vote for Rayner or Crosby?

:wink:

[mission]

To those who may not be scoring at home, the man living in the cardboard condo just wiped the floor with you bitches. I am fuckin' dyin' over here.

TB, the next bowl's on me.

Happy Thanksgiving, ya'll...

bowl... is that like... crack refill?

cardboard condo lol no one will even get that... not a lot of chappelle fans here im guessing :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Spaulding]

Gotta say, the banter on this board is killing me. Whether you agree or disagree with the way things are said (never a fan of knocking a fellow Packer fan), it's hard not to give props to posters that take the time to research things.

[FritzDontBlitz]

To those who may not be scoring at home, the man living in the cardboard condo just wiped the floor with you bitches. I am fuckin' dyin' over here.

TB, the next bowl's on me.

Happy Thanksgiving, ya'll...


So is that a vote for Rayner or Crosby?

:wink:

Can I vote for Longwell?

I like Crosby, he has more leg and a better upside I think. He just needs to adjust to the swirling winds of Lambeau.

I think he'll make Bing very proud someday.... :wink:

[Rastak]

To those who may not be scoring at home, the man living in the cardboard condo just wiped the floor with you bitches. I am fuckin' dyin' over here.

TB, the next bowl's on me.

Happy Thanksgiving, ya'll...


So is that a vote for Rayner or Crosby?

:wink:

Can I vote for Longwell?

I like Crosby, he has more leg and a better upside I think. He just needs to adjust to the swirling winds of Lambeau.

I think he'll make Bing very proud someday.... :wink:


Bing actually has some cool toons. Google "now you has jazz".

I have the mp3 and one of the greatest, shows up to sing on that tune. At least the recording I have.

[4and12to12and4]

Crosby is better than Rayner.


It certainly seems that way.

Well, if we are judging these guys by their last few games, then Vinateiri is one of the worst kickers in the NFL. Timing and luck and confidence plays such a huge factor in kickers. I HATE kickers and wish we would ban them from football. Look at what happened to Dallas in the playoffs last year, they make that field goal, they may go on to win the Superbowl against a very beatable Colts team. At least Crosby, if needed, could win a game for us with a 60 yard field goal, if he hits it right, his leg is ridiculous, and it's nice to see some kickoffs actually make the damn end zone. I agree, Crosby will have a much better career than Rayner, much better and stronger leg. I just wish our Canadien punter could keep the f'n ball out of the end zone on short punts. I'm sick of those midfied punts where we can't pin our oppenents inside the ten, he sucks at that.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Crosby is better than Rayner.My complant against Rayner was how he was almost automatic for a 45 yarder but would always seem to miss the easy 25 yarder. Crosby is kind of making me feel the same about him. He needs to get his shit in gear.

Now this is exactly what i'm talking about. Mad, being the weed smokin mexican has fried his brain.

You have it almost exactly opposite of reality.

For GB, Rayner was 11/12 from 20-29. But, from 30-39 he was 6/9 and from 40-49 he was 8/11.

Crosby is 4/4 from 20-29, 8/9 from 30-39, and 5/9 from 40-49.

I would check your stash. It might be WET.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

To those who may not be scoring at home, the man living in the cardboard condo just wiped the floor with you bitches. I am fuckin' dyin' over here.

TB, the next bowl's on me.

Happy Thanksgiving, ya'll...

Tyrone views the post as a legally binding contract and therefore said bowl must be proferred immediately as "next" bowl is needed NOW.

Tyrone is an easy going guy...willing to pick you up at Sky Harbor. Please advise as to your ETA.

[MadtownPacker]

It doesn't matter if you got your facts right. You are still a cyberbully and I will take your ass out someday soon.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It doesn't matter if you got your facts right. You are still a cyberbully and I will take your ass out someday soon.

Lay off the sherm, Mad. I think it is driving you loco.

U are upset because your hazy memory has been cleared by the truth?

What exactly qualifies me as a cyberbully? You gonna put me in a timeout? :shock:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Anyone who watched the KC/Oakland game and thinks Rayner was the right choice has to have their head examined.

Edwards goes for it on 4th down because he had NO CONFIDENCE in Rayner making a 41 yarder.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Rayner cut.

[Tarlam!]

Anyone who watched the KC/Oakland game and thinks Rayner was the right choice has to have their head examined.

Edwards goes for it on 4th down because he had NO CONFIDENCE in Rayner making a 41 yarder.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Rayner cut.I think you make valid points to support your kicker of choice. If you turn out to be accurate, we are all delighted! We win.

I at least, took issue to you deliberately wanting to ridicule a fellow poster.

I have done it. I am still guilty of it, dammit!

Mad, please start another forum where I can take therapy against my Woody bashing tendencies without disturbing the football posts.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Anyone who watched the KC/Oakland game and thinks Rayner was the right choice has to have their head examined.

Edwards goes for it on 4th down because he had NO CONFIDENCE in Rayner making a 41 yarder.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Rayner cut.I think you make valid points to support your kicker of choice. If you turn out to be accurate, we are all delighted! We win.

I at least, took issue to you deliberately wanting to ridicule a fellow poster.

I have done it. I am still guilty of it, dammit!

Mad, please start another forum where I can take therapy against my Woody bashing tendencies without disturbing the football posts.

I hear you.

I didn't ridicule him. The stats ridiculed him.

More importanty, he argued a point with flawed and misleading info. If he presents the truth w/accurate info then most of my post is not necessary.

I do agree, mad, let's get a woody/merlin area.

[Bossman641]

I do agree, mad, let's get a woody/merlin area.

What would be interesting is if Woody and Merlin got into an argument with each other. How would this end? I cannot even imagine.

Merlin, what are your thoughts on Canada?

Haha, just kidding Woody.

[Partial]

It doesn't matter if you got your facts right. You are still a cyberbully and I will take your ass out someday soon.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It doesn't matter if you got your facts right. You are still a cyberbully and I will take your ass out someday soon.

What is your point? That i will soon be joining you as once being exiled?

[Partial]

No, that attacking someone on the internet just makes you a douche. There is no respect in that.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

No, that attacking someone on the internet just makes you a douche. There is no respect in that.

Really, isn't that what you are doing right now.

Guess it takes one to know one.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Anyone who watched the KC/Oakland game and thinks Rayner was the right choice has to have their head examined.

Edwards goes for it on 4th down because he had NO CONFIDENCE in Rayner making a 41 yarder.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Rayner cut.
That move alone speaks volumes on Rayner. I like the guy and I thought the Packers were going to keep him, but in a 3 pt game and he's not put in for a very makable FG? Damn.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Anyone who watched the KC/Oakland game and thinks Rayner was the right choice has to have their head examined.

Edwards goes for it on 4th down because he had NO CONFIDENCE in Rayner making a 41 yarder.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Rayner cut.
That move alone speaks volumes on Rayner. I like the guy and I thought the Packers were going to keep him, but in a 3 pt game and he's not put in for a very makable FG? Damn.

If you listened to the postgame when the questioned Herm, he said they didn't want to put the pressure on him. This was after missing a 31 (something around that) field goal.

Rayner essentially forced them to go for it on 4th down and they didn't make it. Pretty much game over after their defense couldn't stop Da Raidahs from making one first down.

[The Leaper]

That move alone speaks volumes on Rayner. I like the guy and I thought the Packers were going to keep him, but in a 3 pt game and he's not put in for a very makable FG? Damn.

It seems Rayner lost a lot of confidence after the Packers cut him. From the articles written about it, he seemed blindsided by it...although I'm unsure why that was the case. The Packers DRAFTED another kicker...that is a pretty good sign that they aren't confident in you.

[MadtownPacker]

It doesn't matter if you got your facts right. You are still a cyberbully and I will take your ass out someday soon.

What is your point? That i will soon be joining you as once being exiled?I suggest you watch your cardboard-box-living ass around Partial!

I had to stop Blasta P from beating down some hoe in Green Bay. The boy has ice running thru his veins. A true killa if I ever met one.

[Freak Out]

It doesn't matter if you got your facts right. You are still a cyberbully and I will take your ass out someday soon.

What is your point? That i will soon be joining you as once being exiled?I suggest you watch your cardboard-box-living ass around Partial!

I had to stop Blasta P from beating down some hoe in Green Bay. The boy has ice running thru his veins. A true killa if I ever met one.

Blasta P was going to beat down a ho in GB? Does Sears know about this? :lol:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It doesn't matter if you got your facts right. You are still a cyberbully and I will take your ass out someday soon.

What is your point? That i will soon be joining you as once being exiled?I suggest you watch your cardboard-box-living ass around Partial!

I had to stop Blasta P from beating down some hoe in Green Bay. The boy has ice running thru his veins. A true killa if I ever met one.

After smoking a good rock with some prime AZ meth, i'm no slouch.

[MJZiggy]

It doesn't matter if you got your facts right. You are still a cyberbully and I will take your ass out someday soon.

What is your point? That i will soon be joining you as once being exiled?I suggest you watch your cardboard-box-living ass around Partial!

I had to stop Blasta P from beating down some hoe in Green Bay. The boy has ice running thru his veins. A true killa if I ever met one.

Blasta P was going to beat down a ho in GB? Does Sears know about this? :lol:

I don't think Sears would care much...

[GoPackGo]

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/378160.html

Chiefs plan to sign kicker John Carney
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

Kicker John Carney (right) has been around a while. Carney, 43, is third on the all-time field-goal list. Determined to solve their field-goal problem, the Chiefs turned to one of the NFL’s most prolific kickers for help.

They planned today to sign 43-year-old John Carney, who is third on the NFL’s all-time field-goal list. Carney began his NFL career with Tampa Bay in 1988 and has also kicked for the LA Rams, Chargers, Saints and, earlier this year, Jaguars.

Carney was one of three kickers the Chiefs worked out on Monday to replace Dave Rayner, whom they plan to release. The others were Billy Cundiff, who has kicked in previous seasons with the Cowboys and Saints and went to camp this year with the Falcons, and Nick Novak, who also worked out for the Chiefs in September when they signed Rayner.

Cundiff also remained in Kansas City on Monday night. The Chiefs had discussed signing Cundiff as well and using him to kick off but apparently hadn’t made a final decision.

Kickoffs and field-goal range are concerns teams have had with Carney, but not his accuracy from closer distances. He made nine of his 11 field-goal attempts this season with Jacksonville, where he was an injury replacement.

His longest successful kick was 41 yards. He made a 20-yarder in a game against the Chiefs at Arrowhead Stadium in October but missed a 48-yard try.

Rayner made 15 of 22 field-goal attempts this season after joining the Chiefs for the season’s second game. He missed four of his last six tries, including two in a three-point loss to Indianapolis two weeks ago and a 33-yarder in Sunday’s 20-17 loss to Oakland.

Coach Herm Edwards passed on having Rayner try a potential game-tying, 41-yard field goal in the final minutes.

[GoPackGo]

The decision to keep Crosby is looking better^^^^^^^^^ :jig:

[Him8123]

I like Crosby. He will get better in time. I`m sure he never thought he would get drafted and have to play right away. Especially for a team that so rich in traditions and winning. Thats got to be nerve wrecking in itself, to try and perform the best you can and not screw this one up. But he`ll get better I`m not worried about him.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

To bad about Rayner. But, i'm sure he'll be back in the league soon enough. Kickers rotate in and out all the time.

But, I totally called it in my post when I said i wouldn't be surprised to see him cut. When your coach doesn't wanna put pressure on you to make a 41 yarder....your time on the squad is pretty much over.

[Guiness]

What is happening with Rayner? Doesn't make sense, he didn't have these sorts of problems with us...

Maybe it's the holder :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

What is happening with Rayner? Doesn't make sense, he didn't have these sorts of problems with us...

Maybe it's the holder :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

He wasn't good for us either. He was average from 30 on out.

[packers11]

Rayner waived by Chiefs
By Greg A. Bedard
Tuesday, Nov 27 2007, 01:23 PM
Green Bay - Former Packers kicker Dave Rayner, who lost a training camp battle to rookie Mason Crosby, was released Tuesday by the Kansas City Chiefs.

The Chiefs replaced Rayner with 43-year-old John Carney.

Rayner made 15 of 22 field-goal attempts this season after joining the Chiefs for the season’s second game. He missed two in a three-point loss to Indianapolis two weeks ago and a 33-yarder in Sunday’s 20-17 loss to Oakland.

Edwards passed on having Rayner try a potential game-tying 41-yard field goal in the final minutes.

[Guiness]

I far from agree with everything Thompson has done - but kudos for this decision, it was obviously the correct one.

On second thought, maybe it's Mm who deserves the creit.

[Tarlam!]

I far from agree with everything Thompson has done - but kudos for this decision, it was obviously the correct one.

On second thought, maybe it's Mm who deserves the creit.

Oh for fuck's sake, Guiness! I hope this was sarcasm, BECAUSE TT DRAFTED THE DAMNED KICKER.

TT deserves a BOATLOAD of credit and so does M3 for putting on the kicking comp to sort out the final decision.

Sorry, for my outburst. Every second Tuesday is board meeting. I get grumpy....

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I far from agree with everything Thompson has done - but kudos for this decision, it was obviously the correct one.

On second thought, maybe it's Mm who deserves the creit.

Oh for fuck's sake, Guiness! I hope this was sarcasm, BECAUSE TT DRAFTED THE DAMNED KICKER.

TT deserves a BOATLOAD of credit and so does M3 for putting on the kicking comp to sort out the final decision.

Sorry, for my outburst. Every second Tuesday is board meeting. I get grumpy....

He prolly is joking. But, he does have a point. Doesn't MM make decisions on players getting cut?

[mraynrand]

I far from agree with everything Thompson has done - but kudos for this decision, it was obviously the correct one.

On second thought, maybe it's Mm who deserves the creit.

Oh for fuck's sake, Guiness! I hope this was sarcasm, BECAUSE TT DRAFTED THE DAMNED KICKER.

TT deserves a BOATLOAD of credit and so does M3 for putting on the kicking comp to sort out the final decision.

Sorry, for my outburst. Every second Tuesday is board meeting. I get grumpy....

He prolly is joking. But, he does have a point. Doesn't MM make decisions on players getting cut?

I used to think McCarthy was TT's beeatch, but I'm starting to think the guy has some stones. I bet he has considerable input - but that's a total guess.

[RashanGary]

I'm sorry, but this is an overraction from a coach who wants to blame his dumb decision on the kicker. This reaks of the Donatell firing here in 02 or 04 or whenever that was.

Rayner isn't a great kicker but he wans't that bad here. He deserves a chance to fight through it for the season. If he flops, cut him next year. Now is just he wrong time to switch kickers. Reminds me a little of Denny Green flipping out on his OC after the game. Puhleeze, you don't fire someone after that, it rarely works out.

[Guiness]

I far from agree with everything Thompson has done - but kudos for this decision, it was obviously the correct one.

On second thought, maybe it's Mm who deserves the creit.

Oh for fuck's sake, Guiness! I hope this was sarcasm, BECAUSE TT DRAFTED THE DAMNED KICKER.

TT deserves a BOATLOAD of credit and so does M3 for putting on the kicking comp to sort out the final decision.

Sorry, for my outburst. Every second Tuesday is board meeting. I get grumpy....

He prolly is joking. But, he does have a point. Doesn't MM make decisions on players getting cut?

Well...only half joking. I was just saying someone deserved the credit for picking Crosby over Rayner. It was far from a slam dunk decision, and by all accounts, TT didn't go into the draft looking for one, but couldn't pass on the value when he was there that late in the draft. Certainly no one seemed to see it as an area of need. Yes, TT drafted him, but there doesn't seem to be any indication that he told MM he had to keep him over Rayner.

Hard to tell why Rayner 'grenaded'. Kickers are a strange lot, and I wonder if loosing the camp competition rattled him. As JH pointed out, he was ok here. Certainly never missed 4 of 6 that I can remember.

Anyways Tarlam - I like the spirit!

[Carolina_Packer]

Well, as TT has said, he does talk to MM, and will not force a player on him, but ultimately makes personnel decisions. I'm sure that they talk about decisions like, replacing a kicker. I don't think TT would have drafted him and not have spoken to MM about it first. MM might have said, I'm not sold on this guy, see what you can do.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I'm sorry, but this is an overraction from a coach who wants to blame his dumb decision on the kicker. This reaks of the Donatell firing here in 02 or 04 or whenever that was.

Rayner isn't a great kicker but he wans't that bad here. He deserves a chance to fight through it for the season. If he flops, cut him next year. Now is just he wrong time to switch kickers. Reminds me a little of Denny Green flipping out on his OC after the game. Puhleeze, you don't fire someone after that, it rarely works out.

I hear what you are saying, but have to respectfully disagree.

Not kicking isn't a dumb decision. Rayner had just missed a 30 yarder. HE was one for 3 the previous week. A game they lost by 3 points. He was at that moment 15 of 22. he made 7/10 from 30-39, and 5-8 from 40-49.

That isn't good. If he was on the pack you'd be at least asking who else is out there.

A coach, with his job on the line, and if they won just a game back from leading the division can't just wait and let him work it out. And, if he kicks well the previous game they might be tied for the lead.

Kickers get cut all the time. To show how well it works, think Gramatica in Dallas last year.

A big difference tween a player and a coach. Cutting a player for performance is legitimate. It sends a message to the rest of the team. Cutting him arbitrarily is another thing...because you don't like him, etc.

I totally agree with a coach midseason. I live in AZ. That was a travesty and more importantly did result in any change.

[The Leaper]

Not kicking isn't a dumb decision. Rayner had just missed a 30 yarder. HE was one for 3 the previous week. A game they lost by 3 points. He was at that moment 15 of 22. he made 7/10 from 30-39, and 5-8 from 40-49.

I dunno.

This is the NFL...not college. Your kickers should be reliable inside of 45 yards over half of the time...even if they aren't studs.

Not kicking the FG is pretty dumb IMO. The chances of converting the 4th down probably aren't much better than making the FG. Converting the 4th down doesn't put points on the board. Even if you convert, you still may have to settle for a FG later...and that FG try might not be that much more of a certainty than the one he could've taken in the first place.

If the confidence in Rayner was that reduced...that one miss from 30 yards forced the coach to view anything outside the 10 yard line as a four down situation....then the team should've gone out and gotten another kicker prior to the game.

[Merlin]

Crosby seems to make the same mistake the entire game. If he is hitting right, he continues to hit right. If he is hitting left he continues to hit left. I am sure all that will come with time. I don't think it's been a great week for some very good kickers. Look at Vinitari, he over compensated each time and missed what? 4 in a row?. Crosby seems to be not wanting to make that mistake so I suspect his corrections are under compensating. He will find the right compensation level.

Rayner isn't under performing by any means. But of course those that are all high on Crosby won't see it that way. Anything to bash a former player they don't like.

I like Crosby but I also liked Rayner. I would have been happy either way. I like Crosby's more consistent kick offs and hopefully the other mistakes he has made with correct themselves with time. I feel the same way about Rayner although kicking in KC is a lot different then kicking at Lambeau. I think he needs another season in the same environment to see what he is made of.

Comparison:

Crosby 18/22 82%
Rayner 13/17 76%

Crosby 12/13 20+
Rayner 9/11 20+

Crosby 5/8 40+
Rayner 4/6 40+

Crosby 50 kick offs for 3,129 yards 62.6 ave with 10 touch backs, return average 20 yards, 1 kick out of bounds.

Rayner 32 kick offs for 2,206 yards 68.9 ave with 3 touch backs, return average 22.5 yards, 2 out of bounds kicks.

They both have had a field goal blocked although nfl.com doesn't list Crosby's for whatever reason.

Well, here is another one of Merlin's fine posts. Except it is flawed as always.

Let's examine. Hmm, Mason seems to make the same mistake throughout the game. In order to make that type of determination one would need some games to evaluate him. Do we have this type of data. Not really.

First, he hasn't even played ONE PROFESSIONAL SEASON.

Ok, but let's just look at the small sample size and go from there.

In the preseason he missed one field goal. He didn't attempt one after that miss, so we can't determine anything from that.

In the regular season he is 19/25 (i don't know why you can't use the most recent data). He missed on against the Giants and didn't attempt another. Nothing can be learned from that. In the washington game he missed two. Against KC he missed one. Against Carolina he missed 2.

Now, i will be honest and say that I don't know about the misses..in other words, were the really long field goals, or did he correct himself in the KC game which would disprove Merlins inane thoughts.

What we do know is that in 2 games he missed 2 field goals. In one of those games, according to NFL.com a fg was blocked. So, we can't examine self correction.

That leaves us with ONE FREAKING GAME to make a determination. That is just asinine.

What we also know is that merlin doesn't use current data.

FG%. Crosby 76%, Rayner 70%.

We also know that Mason has kicked in 10 games vs. 9.

We know that he has had more chances from outside the 30 which will result in lowering your percentage including 1-2 from over 50. Rayner is 0-1. Funny, isn't that what Herm was saying about Rayner...we will have to get closer for him. Is anyone saying that about Mason?

We also know that merlin skews the data as he doesn't break down the kicks, in other words plus 40 is all the same to him. He doesn't want you to know that rayner is 6-8 from 30-39 as opposed to mason at 8-9 from that range.

Nor does he mention that Rayner's longest kick this year is 49 yards, whereas Mason's is 53.

Mason is averaging 62.9 on kickoffs, 56 kickoffs, 11 tb, 43 returns and 19.8 on returns.

Rayner is averaging 68.9 on kickoffs, 35 kickoffs, 3 tb, 30 returns and 22.1 returns.

What does the smart packer fan glean from this. Rayner either has shorter hang time or something mysterious is happening as kick returners are deeper in their own territory yet somehow manage to return it for more yards.

What else does the smart packer fan realize from this? That mason's tb are 19.6 percent. Rayner is at 8.57%.

Or that 85.71 of Rayner's KOs are returned as opposed to 76.78.

Case closed. Any objective football fan could tell you which kicker AT THIS MOMENT is the better player.

Now it's my fault that the NFL updated it's website after I posted. WOW. It's also my fault that I posted general stats because I was too lazy to list them in their entirety. Dude, you need to lay off the crack because your post his nothing but made up shit and blind hatred for your fellow man. By the way, since when does it mean I am wrong when in every game Crosby has had a miss, he continues to kick his FG's in that direction? Oh wait, yeah I compared one game, not. Since when did I slam Crosby? In fact, if you bothered to read what I said instead of looking just at who wrote it you would see that I believe he will improve upon this in time. Rayner also is not doing a bad job as the original post implies. The stats are there for you too see but you break them down and analyze them like Crosby was licking your knob.

Do yourself a favor (and the rest of us to), don't respond to what I write because you clearly cannot tell the difference between what was written and your hatred of the person who wrote it.

For those of you who stuck up for me even if you never agree with me, thank you. However anyone who reads this post and goes off about how I am making shit up or that I am wrong, clearly isn't watching Crosby when he has a miss in a game. And anyone who says I am ripping on Crosby and praising Rayner is also, not reading what I wrote.

[Merlin]

Anyone who watched the KC/Oakland game and thinks Rayner was the right choice has to have their head examined.

Edwards goes for it on 4th down because he had NO CONFIDENCE in Rayner making a 41 yarder.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Rayner cut.I think you make valid points to support your kicker of choice. If you turn out to be accurate, we are all delighted! We win.

I at least, took issue to you deliberately wanting to ridicule a fellow poster.

I have done it. I am still guilty of it, dammit!

Mad, please start another forum where I can take therapy against my Woody bashing tendencies without disturbing the football posts.

I hear you.

I didn't ridicule him. The stats ridiculed him.

More importanty, he argued a point with flawed and misleading info. If he presents the truth w/accurate info then most of my post is not necessary.

I do agree, mad, let's get a woody/merlin area.

Do you actually READ? WOW, my stats aren't flawed, your analysis of the entire post is.

Man, get help.

[The Leaper]

Do you actually READ? WOW, my stats aren't flawed, your analysis of the entire post is.

Man, get help.

Bigguns always claims everyone else is dealing with false and misleading information...and demands a thesis to prove your point. That is the easiest way to counter those who disagree with you without doing anything credible yourself to prove what the facts truly are.

[Partial]

Just ignore him. I've never once seen him ever admit any inaccuracies in any of his posts. Nor was he willing to eat any crow in the eat crow thread. Don't waste your time.

[mmmdk]

Crosby is good yet he needs to get better. He's got the tools to do it. In the playoffs Crosby will be testet beyond anything he's ever tried before as a kicker. If he's successful then he gets a boots to his confidence that'll benifit him for the future.

[The Leaper]

Confidence is such a huge part of kicking. If you lose that edge, it is difficult to recover.

[Merlin]

Just ignore him. I've never once seen him ever admit any inaccuracies in any of his posts. Nor was he willing to eat any crow in the eat crow thread. Don't waste your time.

There was one today, one of many. Read.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Not kicking isn't a dumb decision. Rayner had just missed a 30 yarder. HE was one for 3 the previous week. A game they lost by 3 points. He was at that moment 15 of 22. he made 7/10 from 30-39, and 5-8 from 40-49.

I dunno.

This is the NFL...not college. Your kickers should be reliable inside of 45 yards over half of the time...even if they aren't studs.

Not kicking the FG is pretty dumb IMO. The chances of converting the 4th down probably aren't much better than making the FG. Converting the 4th down doesn't put points on the board. Even if you convert, you still may have to settle for a FG later...and that FG try might not be that much more of a certainty than the one he could've taken in the first place.

If the confidence in Rayner was that reduced...that one miss from 30 yards forced the coach to view anything outside the 10 yard line as a four down situation....then the team should've gone out and gotten another kicker prior to the game.

that would be logical. I can agree that is as big a mistake as not kicking.

But, i think sometimes you have to get a temperature of your players..like in basketball or baseball.

either way, his hand was forced by rayner's poor play.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Crosby seems to make the same mistake the entire game. If he is hitting right, he continues to hit right. If he is hitting left he continues to hit left. I am sure all that will come with time. I don't think it's been a great week for some very good kickers. Look at Vinitari, he over compensated each time and missed what? 4 in a row?. Crosby seems to be not wanting to make that mistake so I suspect his corrections are under compensating. He will find the right compensation level.

Rayner isn't under performing by any means. But of course those that are all high on Crosby won't see it that way. Anything to bash a former player they don't like.

I like Crosby but I also liked Rayner. I would have been happy either way. I like Crosby's more consistent kick offs and hopefully the other mistakes he has made with correct themselves with time. I feel the same way about Rayner although kicking in KC is a lot different then kicking at Lambeau. I think he needs another season in the same environment to see what he is made of.

Comparison:

Crosby 18/22 82%
Rayner 13/17 76%

Crosby 12/13 20+
Rayner 9/11 20+

Crosby 5/8 40+
Rayner 4/6 40+

Crosby 50 kick offs for 3,129 yards 62.6 ave with 10 touch backs, return average 20 yards, 1 kick out of bounds.

Rayner 32 kick offs for 2,206 yards 68.9 ave with 3 touch backs, return average 22.5 yards, 2 out of bounds kicks.

They both have had a field goal blocked although nfl.com doesn't list Crosby's for whatever reason.

Well, here is another one of Merlin's fine posts. Except it is flawed as always.

Let's examine. Hmm, Mason seems to make the same mistake throughout the game. In order to make that type of determination one would need some games to evaluate him. Do we have this type of data. Not really.

First, he hasn't even played ONE PROFESSIONAL SEASON.

Ok, but let's just look at the small sample size and go from there.

In the preseason he missed one field goal. He didn't attempt one after that miss, so we can't determine anything from that.

In the regular season he is 19/25 (i don't know why you can't use the most recent data). He missed on against the Giants and didn't attempt another. Nothing can be learned from that. In the washington game he missed two. Against KC he missed one. Against Carolina he missed 2.

Now, i will be honest and say that I don't know about the misses..in other words, were the really long field goals, or did he correct himself in the KC game which would disprove Merlins inane thoughts.

What we do know is that in 2 games he missed 2 field goals. In one of those games, according to NFL.com a fg was blocked. So, we can't examine self correction.

That leaves us with ONE FREAKING GAME to make a determination. That is just asinine.

What we also know is that merlin doesn't use current data.

FG%. Crosby 76%, Rayner 70%.

We also know that Mason has kicked in 10 games vs. 9.

We know that he has had more chances from outside the 30 which will result in lowering your percentage including 1-2 from over 50. Rayner is 0-1. Funny, isn't that what Herm was saying about Rayner...we will have to get closer for him. Is anyone saying that about Mason?

We also know that merlin skews the data as he doesn't break down the kicks, in other words plus 40 is all the same to him. He doesn't want you to know that rayner is 6-8 from 30-39 as opposed to mason at 8-9 from that range.

Nor does he mention that Rayner's longest kick this year is 49 yards, whereas Mason's is 53.

Mason is averaging 62.9 on kickoffs, 56 kickoffs, 11 tb, 43 returns and 19.8 on returns.

Rayner is averaging 68.9 on kickoffs, 35 kickoffs, 3 tb, 30 returns and 22.1 returns.

What does the smart packer fan glean from this. Rayner either has shorter hang time or something mysterious is happening as kick returners are deeper in their own territory yet somehow manage to return it for more yards.

What else does the smart packer fan realize from this? That mason's tb are 19.6 percent. Rayner is at 8.57%.

Or that 85.71 of Rayner's KOs are returned as opposed to 76.78.

Case closed. Any objective football fan could tell you which kicker AT THIS MOMENT is the better player.

Now it's my fault that the NFL updated it's website after I posted. WOW. It's also my fault that I posted general stats because I was too lazy to list them in their entirety. Dude, you need to lay off the crack because your post his nothing but made up shit and blind hatred for your fellow man. By the way, since when does it mean I am wrong when in every game Crosby has had a miss, he continues to kick his FG's in that direction? Oh wait, yeah I compared one game, not. Since when did I slam Crosby? In fact, if you bothered to read what I said instead of looking just at who wrote it you would see that I believe he will improve upon this in time. Rayner also is not doing a bad job as the original post implies. The stats are there for you too see but you break them down and analyze them like Crosby was licking your knob.

Do yourself a favor (and the rest of us to), don't respond to what I write because you clearly cannot tell the difference between what was written and your hatred of the person who wrote it.

For those of you who stuck up for me even if you never agree with me, thank you. However anyone who reads this post and goes off about how I am making shit up or that I am wrong, clearly isn't watching Crosby when he has a miss in a game. And anyone who says I am ripping on Crosby and praising Rayner is also, not reading what I wrote.

That is the whole point. How you can you look at one game and make any sort of determination.

Lazy: Exactly. therefore what you think is true isn't. If i look at general stats that tells me very little. What don't you comprehend.

It is very easy to understand. In baseball we have 300 hitters that hit 200 in the clutch. Yet, your argument would be he is a good hitter.

Made up: Dude i made nothing up. You are an imbecile.

Rayner: he wasn't a good kicker for us. He wasn't for KC.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Just ignore him. I've never once seen him ever admit any inaccuracies in any of his posts. Nor was he willing to eat any crow in the eat crow thread. Don't waste your time.

crow: you mean like you do when you claim AT&T runs the internet. And you were wong. Among all the other wrong things you claim.

If you wanna pile on go ahead, but at least be factual.

[The Leaper]

That...and Herm's clock management skills are terrible. He wasted a time out to challenge a play...which he lost, losing another time out.

Herm seems like a good guy, but he does some crazy stuff.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Anyone who watched the KC/Oakland game and thinks Rayner was the right choice has to have their head examined.

Edwards goes for it on 4th down because he had NO CONFIDENCE in Rayner making a 41 yarder.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Rayner cut.I think you make valid points to support your kicker of choice. If you turn out to be accurate, we are all delighted! We win.

I at least, took issue to you deliberately wanting to ridicule a fellow poster.

I have done it. I am still guilty of it, dammit!

Mad, please start another forum where I can take therapy against my Woody bashing tendencies without disturbing the football posts.

I hear you.

I didn't ridicule him. The stats ridiculed him.

More importanty, he argued a point with flawed and misleading info. If he presents the truth w/accurate info then most of my post is not necessary.

I do agree, mad, let's get a woody/merlin area.

Do you actually READ? WOW, my stats aren't flawed, your analysis of the entire post is.

Man, get help.

Analysis is wrong? Hmm. Which part? Please illuminate us as to what conclusion i've drawn that is wrong.

Get help: LOL. Physician, heal theyself.

[Partial]

Just ignore him. I've never once seen him ever admit any inaccuracies in any of his posts. Nor was he willing to eat any crow in the eat crow thread. Don't waste your time.

crow: you mean like you do when you claim AT&T runs the internet. And you were wong. Among all the other wrong things you claim.

If you wanna pile on go ahead, but at least be factual.

I have encouraged you to do your homework but you won't. Don't go there again unless you're willing to do some reading. I am correct.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Do you actually READ? WOW, my stats aren't flawed, your analysis of the entire post is.

Man, get help.

Bigguns always claims everyone else is dealing with false and misleading information...and demands a thesis to prove your point. That is the easiest way to counter those who disagree with you without doing anything credible yourself to prove what the facts truly are.

No. I rarely claim false. I ask just for some facts. There is a difference.

I never said Merlin's info was false, just not detailed enough to make the case.

The easiest way to make your point is to have some substantive material..otherwise it is all subjective..then, we can just dance forever.

I prefer to narrow it down and be conclusive. I prefer stats and numbers...like mr. bean. As a longtime baseball fan you can draw conclusions from #s.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Just ignore him. I've never once seen him ever admit any inaccuracies in any of his posts. Nor was he willing to eat any crow in the eat crow thread. Don't waste your time.

crow: you mean like you do when you claim AT&T runs the internet. And you were wong. Among all the other wrong things you claim.

If you wanna pile on go ahead, but at least be factual.

I have encouraged you to do your homework but you won't. Don't go there again unless you're willing to do some reading. I am correct.

Right, just like the diagram of the intenet i posted. Clearly showed differently.

I work everyday with bandwith, carriers, and pipe. AT&T isn't a factor. More importantly, the issue is last mile not fiber. You could go out tommorow and buy transport.

Here is the link:
http://advice.cio.com/themes/CIO.com/cache/Internet_map_labels_0.pdf

Or this article from 05...sure, things change, but not even close to a monopoly.
https://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=17635

Go ahead and tell us that AT&T dominates and monopolizes the internet. This should be good.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Confidence is such a huge part of kicking. If you lose that edge, it is difficult to recover.

Or, if you just aren't very good to begin with.

[GoPackGo]

I work everyday with bandwith, carriers, and pipe So you don't have to do much real work huh? Carriers run themselves. :roll:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I work everyday with bandwith, carriers, and pipe So you don't have to do much real work huh? Carriers run themselves. :roll:

Huh? No, i don't work for them. I work with them. I regularly buy bandwidth..Wi-vod, BlueWire, Qwest, Sparkplug, Time Warner, Copperhead, Integra.

Notice that AT&T isn't mentioned. They aren't even a player in Arizona.

This is the slow season for my company. My orders are in...provisioning is the problem. Everyone essentially buys from Qwest or Integra. Order a ptp from "pickem" and FOC is 30 days...right. Getting Qwest to do something is a joke. Sure, we'll extend the demark. Right. 45-60 days later.

Oh, you are having problems? Must be your end. 30 days later..oops, we provisioned PRI. Except they won't ever tell you they are wrong.

Do we even need to discuss the great DSL scam.

[GoPackGo]

Sure, we'll extend the demark. Right. 45-60 days later.

Oh, you are having problems? Must be your end. 30 days later..oops, we provisioned PRI. Except they won't ever tell you they are wrong.

Do we even need to discuss the great DSL scam.

You should have the know how to extend the demarc yourself if you are in the business on bandwidth, carries, and pipe.

ooooooooo. tell me the great dsl scam that you imagined

[BTP]

Sure, we'll extend the demark. Right. 45-60 days later.

Oh, you are having problems? Must be your end. 30 days later..oops, we provisioned PRI. Except they won't ever tell you they are wrong.

Do we even need to discuss the great DSL scam.

You should have the know how to extend the demarc yourself if you are in the business on bandwidth, carries, and pipe.

ooooooooo. tell me the great dsl scam that you imagined

Do you even know what exactly a demarc is?

Hmm long time lurker here and I guess this is as good as any to start. First off I dont know any of you from hell or high water BUT:

As someone who has worked telecommunications field(s) for a very long time now. Tyrone is very correct in what he is saying here. Obviously some of you really dont know what you're talking about when it comes to loops,rings and backbone and exactly who runs and services them.

However,I would love to hear his opinion on the dsl scam also.

[Freak Out]

Just ignore him. I've never once seen him ever admit any inaccuracies in any of his posts. Nor was he willing to eat any crow in the eat crow thread. Don't waste your time.

crow: you mean like you do when you claim AT&T runs the internet. And you were wong. Among all the other wrong things you claim.

If you wanna pile on go ahead, but at least be factual.

I have encouraged you to do your homework but you won't. Don't go there again unless you're willing to do some reading. I am correct.

Right, just like the diagram of the intenet i posted. Clearly showed differently.

I work everyday with bandwith, carriers, and pipe. AT&T isn't a factor. More importantly, the issue is last mile not fiber. You could go out tommorow and buy transport.



No no no there big fella...you work with tubes. A huge series of tubes.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Sure, we'll extend the demark. Right. 45-60 days later.

Oh, you are having problems? Must be your end. 30 days later..oops, we provisioned PRI. Except they won't ever tell you they are wrong.

Do we even need to discuss the great DSL scam.

You should have the know how to extend the demarc yourself if you are in the business on bandwidth, carries, and pipe.

ooooooooo. tell me the great dsl scam that you imagined

dude, we don't do anything with the T1 like that. We are using pipe. I'm not provisioning it. Are you crazy? If i order from TW they have to wait for Qwest circuits. i'm not in that loop. I'm waiting for turn up dates.

When i want a ptp from client to our colo..we do the work in our building..just get it to the telco room on our floor. And, getting them to actually get it to the floor is a huge task for them apparently (heavy sarcasm) as they fuck it up constantly and terminate in the basement which we don't have access to nor should we have to go down there and pull it to the 3rd floor. We can't even use the pipe and yet were charged for 2 months service.

But, we don't provision and we certainly aren't bringing the biscuit into the building. Our job begins and ends at the customer side with the router.

Finally, try getting some answers from qwest as to why the delay.

To me: "Gentlemen: Just in from Qwest: The order has gone held for Inter Office Facilities."

Me: What exactly is the issue.

Them (not qwest): "There is either something wrong with the existing facilities/wiring or there is not enough to cover your service. They are somewhat vague and I'm trying to get more info, but the gist is that we don't have a circuit and they cannot provide one until...sorry for the delay."

DSL: Are you going to tell me that: 1) it doesn't consistently go down 2) that they always deliver the promised upload and download speeds 3) that they don't oversell the bandwidth.

Half the time they don't even know their own service. Case in point. Client is waiting on t1, using dsl. computers/phones aren't working. We say, let us get into the dsl, client calls qwest, qwest tells them no one can get in. We are stunned as we have dsl (among others for redundancy) and can get into ours. Clients business is suffering. Can't determine if we are bsing or qwest. Finally qwest admits that Choice DSL only allow for 4 static ip addresses, but wouldn't admit it before or didn't know. Simple solution of buying linksys until T1 and cisco router.

Hey, if i was in Qwests shoes i would do the same. But, as a customer I wouldn't be thrilled.

[GoPackGo]

Do you even know what exactly a demarc is?
As someone who has worked telecommunications field(s) for a very long time now. Tyrone is very correct in what he is saying here. Obviously some of you really dont know what you're talking about when it comes to loops,rings and backbone and exactly who runs and services them.

However,I would love to hear his opinion on the dsl scam also.

Yeah I know what a demarcs,loops,rings and backbones are. Tyrone is correct that the providers do take along time to come out and extend demarcs and never like to admit if the problem is "thiers" or "yours".

If Tyrone needs ds1's extended, he should learn how to do it himself.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Sure, we'll extend the demark. Right. 45-60 days later.

Oh, you are having problems? Must be your end. 30 days later..oops, we provisioned PRI. Except they won't ever tell you they are wrong.

Do we even need to discuss the great DSL scam.

You should have the know how to extend the demarc yourself if you are in the business on bandwidth, carries, and pipe.

ooooooooo. tell me the great dsl scam that you imagined

Do you even know what exactly a demarc is?

Hmm long time lurker here and I guess this is as good as any to start. First off I dont know any of you from hell or high water BUT:

As someone who has worked telecommunications field(s) for a very long time now. Tyrone is very correct in what he is saying here. Obviously some of you really dont know what you're talking about when it comes to loops,rings and backbone and exactly who runs and services them.

However,I would love to hear his opinion on the dsl scam also.

Scam might be a strong word. But, it certainly doesn't deliver what they promise. At least not in my location. I'd love for people to talk with my clients or potential clients who would tell you that their dsl goes down daily at roughly the same time.

In my small world, i'm concerned with clean bandwidth as much as i'm concerned with pipe size. But, if i could get (and working on that right now) dsl to the client and from there to one of the 4 regional (forget the term) and handed off to the carrier circuit (on phx main) and then to our colo. Great bandwidth, avoid the cloud, low price.

BTP: Thanx for at least ackowledging that i'm not bsing here.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Do you even know what exactly a demarc is?
As someone who has worked telecommunications field(s) for a very long time now. Tyrone is very correct in what he is saying here. Obviously some of you really dont know what you're talking about when it comes to loops,rings and backbone and exactly who runs and services them.

However,I would love to hear his opinion on the dsl scam also.

Yeah I know what a demarcs,loops,rings and backbones are. Tyrone is correct that the providers do take along time to come out and extend demarcs and never like to admit if the problem is "thiers" or "yours".

If Tyrone needs ds1's extended, he should learn how to do it himself.

We use strictly T1s..PTP. Or if, if necessary a tl from the same carrier we are colo'd at. Avoid the cloud.

But, i don't get your problem with my statements. We aren't in that biz. That isn't our role, nor do we want it to be. We aren't a networking company, nor do we want to be one.

As i stated, if it is to our Telco room..we do the work. Doing work at the client side is out of our scope..not OUR KNOWLEDGE. Under your scenario, what exactly is the role of Qwest/TW/Integra.

I guess i should just be happy they provision a t1. Yeah, let me get down and blow them. :roll:

The last thing i/we want to do is solve clients networking issues.

That is what they pay useless certified idiots for. Should I rant about the huge number of certified networking dopes (there are good ones, but TONS of dopes).

Are you in Phx. Do you work for a telco. Do you wanna help? Is there a service you provide. I'm more than willing to talk with ANYBODY.

[BTP]

Sure, we'll extend the demark. Right. 45-60 days later.

Oh, you are having problems? Must be your end. 30 days later..oops, we provisioned PRI. Except they won't ever tell you they are wrong.

Do we even need to discuss the great DSL scam.

You should have the know how to extend the demarc yourself if you are in the business on bandwidth, carries, and pipe.

ooooooooo. tell me the great dsl scam that you imagined

Do you even know what exactly a demarc is?

Hmm long time lurker here and I guess this is as good as any to start. First off I dont know any of you from hell or high water BUT:

As someone who has worked telecommunications field(s) for a very long time now. Tyrone is very correct in what he is saying here. Obviously some of you really dont know what you're talking about when it comes to loops,rings and backbone and exactly who runs and services them.

However,I would love to hear his opinion on the dsl scam also.

Scam might be a strong word. But, it certainly doesn't deliver what they promise. At least not in my location. I'd love for people to talk with my clients or potential clients who would tell you that their dsl goes down daily at roughly the same time.

In my small world, i'm concerned with clean bandwidth as much as i'm concerned with pipe size. But, if i could get (and working on that right now) dsl to the client and from there to one of the 4 regional (forget the term) and handed off to the carrier circuit (on phx main) and then to our colo. Great bandwidth, avoid the cloud, low price.

BTP: Thanx for at least ackowledging that i'm not bsing here.


Well it all depends on who the service provider is and of course how far you are away from the Telco CO. Lot's people dont realize that if your over 10,000 ft from there,yes,you are going to have issues especially the provisioning and speeds. Especially being on copper pairs(yes in Wisconsin and other states they are still updating this)

I am very fortunate enough to be 4000ft from my CO and my DSL provisioning of 6mb down/768. I actually get that (constant at that). Even on a VOD line. Companies have pretty much done away unbundled loops for DSL(in which was freaking silly).

That were the whole DSL/Cable pissing match people get into cracks me up because most of them dont even understand what they are talking about.

[BTP]

We use strictly T1s..PTP. Or if, if necessary a tl from the same carrier we are colo'd at. Avoid the cloud.

But, i don't get your problem with my statements. We aren't in that biz. That isn't our role, nor do we want it to be. We aren't a networking company, nor do we want to be one.

As i stated, if it is to our Telco room..we do the work. Doing work at the client side is out of our scope..not OUR KNOWLEDGE. Under your scenario, what exactly is the role of Qwest/TW/Integra.

I guess i should just be happy they provision a t1. Yeah, let me get down and blow them. :roll:

The last thing i/we want to do is solve clients networking issues.

That is what they pay useless certified idiots for. Should I rant about the huge number of certified networking dopes (there are good ones, but TONS of dopes).

Are you in Phx. Do you work for a telco. Do you wanna help? Is there a service you provide. I'm more than willing to talk with ANYBODY.

HAHAH I dont even want to hear your sad story,you just deal with them on the phone. I am the field engineer that has to go deal with them in person. Some of these clowns have four years of college yet couldnt make a RJ45 jack/cable let alone punch down on a 66 blocks.

[Freak Out]

That were the whole DSL/Cable pissing match people get into cracks me up because most of them dont even understand what they are talking about.

Good stuff in a thread about a PK that was cut by the Chiefs.

So what is the best way to determine (cost is not a factor) if the cable hook up or DSL is better if both are available in your area? The local DSL company claims there service is better because your not "sharing" all your bandwidth with everyone else on with a cable modem? I have the cable modem now and it is pretty reliable but I never get the speeds they advertise...and I pay for.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

We use strictly T1s..PTP. Or if, if necessary a tl from the same carrier we are colo'd at. Avoid the cloud.

But, i don't get your problem with my statements. We aren't in that biz. That isn't our role, nor do we want it to be. We aren't a networking company, nor do we want to be one.

As i stated, if it is to our Telco room..we do the work. Doing work at the client side is out of our scope..not OUR KNOWLEDGE. Under your scenario, what exactly is the role of Qwest/TW/Integra.

I guess i should just be happy they provision a t1. Yeah, let me get down and blow them. :roll:

The last thing i/we want to do is solve clients networking issues.

That is what they pay useless certified idiots for. Should I rant about the huge number of certified networking dopes (there are good ones, but TONS of dopes).

Are you in Phx. Do you work for a telco. Do you wanna help? Is there a service you provide. I'm more than willing to talk with ANYBODY.

HAHAH I dont even want to hear your sad story,you just deal with them on the phone. I am the field engineer that has to go deal with them in person. Some of these clowns have four years of college yet couldnt make a RJ45 jack/cable let alone punch down on a 66 blocks.

Unfortunately I don't just deal with them on the phone.

The idea that a voip phone has switch in it, that a computer can daisy chain off the phone and require only one jack is almost incomprensible to some of these folks. I love it when they tell me it can't be done.

Or when they say, no once the biscuit is there, i'll take over. Must be to try and fool their employer. I had a guy actually call me up and tell me that his phone was working...idiot plugged directly into the biscuit. :roll:

Or, the guys who don't understand the relationship tween the patch panel and the switch. Yikes.

The biggest problems are new buildings. Half the owners and IT guys have no idea what they are doing.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Sure, we'll extend the demark. Right. 45-60 days later.

Oh, you are having problems? Must be your end. 30 days later..oops, we provisioned PRI. Except they won't ever tell you they are wrong.

Do we even need to discuss the great DSL scam.

You should have the know how to extend the demarc yourself if you are in the business on bandwidth, carries, and pipe.

ooooooooo. tell me the great dsl scam that you imagined

Do you even know what exactly a demarc is?

Hmm long time lurker here and I guess this is as good as any to start. First off I dont know any of you from hell or high water BUT:

As someone who has worked telecommunications field(s) for a very long time now. Tyrone is very correct in what he is saying here. Obviously some of you really dont know what you're talking about when it comes to loops,rings and backbone and exactly who runs and services them.

However,I would love to hear his opinion on the dsl scam also.

Scam might be a strong word. But, it certainly doesn't deliver what they promise. At least not in my location. I'd love for people to talk with my clients or potential clients who would tell you that their dsl goes down daily at roughly the same time.

In my small world, i'm concerned with clean bandwidth as much as i'm concerned with pipe size. But, if i could get (and working on that right now) dsl to the client and from there to one of the 4 regional (forget the term) and handed off to the carrier circuit (on phx main) and then to our colo. Great bandwidth, avoid the cloud, low price.

BTP: Thanx for at least ackowledging that i'm not bsing here.


Well it all depends on who the service provider is and of course how far you are away from the Telco CO. Lot's people dont realize that if your over 10,000 ft from there,yes,you are going to have issues especially the provisioning and speeds. Especially being on copper pairs(yes in Wisconsin and other states they are still updating this)

I am very fortunate enough to be 4000ft from my CO and my DSL provisioning of 6mb down/768. I actually get that (constant at that). Even on a VOD line. Companies have pretty much done away unbundled loops for DSL(in which was freaking silly).

That were the whole DSL/Cable pissing match people get into cracks me up because most of them dont even understand what they are talking about.

Course distance is a factor. That is what is even more frustrating here as DSL goes down and it is freakin close to the CO. Qwest really oversells.

Best part of AZ...when it gets really hot in the summer and the copper starts melting in mesa. LOL Every year it is the same as internet goes down.

My buddies at the wireless provider are making a killing providing redundancy.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

That were the whole DSL/Cable pissing match people get into cracks me up because most of them dont even understand what they are talking about.

Good stuff in a thread about a PK that was cut by the Chiefs.

So what is the best way to determine (cost is not a factor) if the cable hook up or DSL is better if both are available in your area? The local DSL company claims there service is better because your not "sharing" all your bandwidth with everyone else on with a cable modem? I have the cable modem now and it is pretty reliable but I never get the speeds they advertise...and I pay for.

I'll leave it to BTP.

It really depends as he says on distance and your carrier for DSL. Here we also have 2 "levels" of dsl.

Plenty here pay for speed they never get as well.

But, as a rule, i say go with cable.

[BTP]

So what is the best way to determine (cost is not a factor) if the cable hook up or DSL is better if both are available in your area? The local DSL company claims there service is better because your not "sharing" all your bandwidth with everyone else on with a cable modem? I have the cable modem now and it is pretty reliable but I never get the speeds they advertise...and I pay for.

ask around your area,looking at stuff like www.dslreports.com with an open mind and read reviews. Remember now when reading those reports . Some are just basic jo-blows giving reports. So some are not that accurate.

The bottom line with the cable/Dsl argument is this. Some areas cable might be your better choice,and in some areas DSL may be your better choice.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

[quote=BTP]

So what is the best way to determine (cost is not a factor) if the cable hook up or DSL is better if both are available in your area? The local DSL company claims there service is better because your not "sharing" all your bandwidth with everyone else on with a cable modem? I have the cable modem now and it is pretty reliable but I never get the speeds they advertise...and I pay for.

ask around your area,looking at stuff like www.dslreports.com with an open mind and read reviews. Remember now when reading those reports . Some are just basic jo-blows giving reports. So some are not that accurate.

The bottom line with the cable/Dsl argument is this. Some areas cable might be your better choice,and in some areas DSL may be your better choice.

You are a telco stooge!!! :evil:

[BTP]

You are a telco stooge!!! :evil:


Uh what?

[Freak Out]

So what is the best way to determine (cost is not a factor) if the cable hook up or DSL is better if both are available in your area? The local DSL company claims there service is better because your not "sharing" all your bandwidth with everyone else on with a cable modem? I have the cable modem now and it is pretty reliable but I never get the speeds they advertise...and I pay for.

ask around your area,looking at stuff like www.dslreports.com with an open mind and read reviews. Remember now when reading those reports . Some are just basic jo-blows giving reports. So some are not that accurate.

The bottom line with the cable/Dsl argument is this. Some areas cable might be your better choice,and in some areas DSL may be your better choice.

I have not done much research lately using things like dslreports and speedtest...in the past Alaska was always slow as hell. Probably too lengthy a question as to the pros and cons of both types of service....there is a new fiber optic run heading from here to Oregon which should help but my I was always under the impression that once it hit the copper here it would always be speed limited.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You are a telco stooge!!! :evil:


Uh what?

Just a joke.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

So what is the best way to determine (cost is not a factor) if the cable hook up or DSL is better if both are available in your area? The local DSL company claims there service is better because your not "sharing" all your bandwidth with everyone else on with a cable modem? I have the cable modem now and it is pretty reliable but I never get the speeds they advertise...and I pay for.

ask around your area,looking at stuff like www.dslreports.com with an open mind and read reviews. Remember now when reading those reports . Some are just basic jo-blows giving reports. So some are not that accurate.

The bottom line with the cable/Dsl argument is this. Some areas cable might be your better choice,and in some areas DSL may be your better choice.

I have not done much research lately using things like dslreports and speedtest...in the past Alaska was always slow as hell. Probably too lengthy a question as to the pros and cons of both types of service....there is a new fiber optic run heading from here to Oregon which should help but my I was always under the impression that once it hit the copper here it would always be speed limited.

Just wire up some of the nearby igloos and get a T1. :P

[Freak Out]

So what is the best way to determine (cost is not a factor) if the cable hook up or DSL is better if both are available in your area? The local DSL company claims there service is better because your not "sharing" all your bandwidth with everyone else on with a cable modem? I have the cable modem now and it is pretty reliable but I never get the speeds they advertise...and I pay for.

ask around your area,looking at stuff like www.dslreports.com with an open mind and read reviews. Remember now when reading those reports . Some are just basic jo-blows giving reports. So some are not that accurate.

The bottom line with the cable/Dsl argument is this. Some areas cable might be your better choice,and in some areas DSL may be your better choice.

I have not done much research lately using things like dslreports and speedtest...in the past Alaska was always slow as hell. Probably too lengthy a question as to the pros and cons of both types of service....there is a new fiber optic run heading from here to Oregon which should help but my I was always under the impression that once it hit the copper here it would always be speed limited.

Just wire up some of the nearby igloos and get a T1. :P

I may have to try that...but right now I'm still working on getting mobile broadband for my dogsled.

[Fritz]

Yup, that Dave Rayner, he sure did have some troubles in KC.

[Merlin]

That is the whole point. How you can you look at one game and make any sort of determination.

Lazy: Exactly. therefore what you think is true isn't. If i look at general stats that tells me very little. What don't you comprehend.

It is very easy to understand. In baseball we have 300 hitters that hit 200 in the clutch. Yet, your argument would be he is a good hitter.

Made up: Dude i made nothing up. You are an imbecile.

Rayner: he wasn't a good kicker for us. He wasn't for KC.

Once again, your true IQ shines through. The one game argument was yours and yours alone. Never once did I use a one game comparison. But for whatever reason you keep hammering away at it.

The statement about being lazy it that my point didn't require microscopic analysis because it wasn't based on one game, it was based on the season so far.

So now there are two made up statements by you.

Rayner wasn't a good kicker for us? And you base that upon? OH, you base it upon the WHOLE season he played for us. His numbers were average, not below so he wasn't a bad kicker but you are too too too stupid to see that. But Crosby, hell he is king of the earth because of your mid season belief. Even if Crosby ends up with the same numbers Rayner dis last year, your opinion won't change.

Why? You can't fix stupid.

[Merlin]

Analysis is wrong? Hmm. Which part? Please illuminate us as to what conclusion i've drawn that is wrong.

Get help: LOL. Physician, heal theyself.

1) You have slammed me for posting the stats as they were when I made the post. Real mature of you.

2) You have hammered away at some mythical one game theory.

3) You have purposely made up shit that just can't be found anywhere in my posts.

4) Your numbers don't add up. Rayner was an average kicker when he was here. You claim he sucked and although you are entitled to that opinion, it isn't fact based.

5) Crosby's numbers aren't anything to write home about and you use them as leverage in what argument?

4) Most of your conclusions in this argument are wrong because they are based upon statements that were never made, inferred or otherwise.

FACT: When Crosby misses a FG in a game, kicks go that way the entire game (right or left). Since when did Crosby only miss a FG in one game?

FACT: He will get better with adjustments in time.

FACT: Rayner at the time of my post did not have "bad" numbers.

FACT: Crosby is doing a hell of a job on kickoffs.

FACT: Anything you have posted in regards to these original points has nothing to do wtih the original points. It's all made up in your head. You actually went out of your way to create a hostile situation by making things up. Oh yeah, and the proverbial name calling because you can't handle reality.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

That is the whole point. How you can you look at one game and make any sort of determination.

Lazy: Exactly. therefore what you think is true isn't. If i look at general stats that tells me very little. What don't you comprehend.

It is very easy to understand. In baseball we have 300 hitters that hit 200 in the clutch. Yet, your argument would be he is a good hitter.

Made up: Dude i made nothing up. You are an imbecile.

Rayner: he wasn't a good kicker for us. He wasn't for KC.

Once again, your true IQ shines through. The one game argument was yours and yours alone. Never once did I use a one game comparison. But for whatever reason you keep hammering away at it.

The statement about being lazy it that my point didn't require microscopic analysis because it wasn't based on one game, it was based on the season so far.

So now there are two made up statements by you.

Rayner wasn't a good kicker for us? And you base that upon? OH, you base it upon the WHOLE season he played for us. His numbers were average, not below so he wasn't a bad kicker but you are too too too stupid to see that. But Crosby, hell he is king of the earth because of your mid season belief. Even if Crosby ends up with the same numbers Rayner dis last year, your opinion won't change.

Why? You can't fix stupid.

You are so slow. There was only one game in which me missed multiple kicks. That is the point you idiot. You are claiming the season, but there isn't a season.

Show me the multiple kick games in which he didnt' corret himself. Man, it is blindingly obvious to everyone but you.

Rayner: I based it on looking at his stats from different yardage areas.

Game, Set, Match.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Analysis is wrong? Hmm. Which part? Please illuminate us as to what conclusion i've drawn that is wrong.

Get help: LOL. Physician, heal theyself.

1) You have slammed me for posting the stats as they were when I made the post. Real mature of you.

2) You have hammered away at some mythical one game theory.

3) You have purposely made up shit that just can't be found anywhere in my posts.

4) Your numbers don't add up. Rayner was an average kicker when he was here. You claim he sucked and although you are entitled to that opinion, it isn't fact based.

5) Crosby's numbers aren't anything to write home about and you use them as leverage in what argument?

4) Most of your conclusions in this argument are wrong because they are based upon statements that were never made, inferred or otherwise.

FACT: When Crosby misses a FG in a game, kicks go that way the entire game (right or left). Since when did Crosby only miss a FG in one game?

FACT: He will get better with adjustments in time.

FACT: Rayner at the time of my post did not have "bad" numbers.

FACT: Crosby is doing a hell of a job on kickoffs.

FACT: Anything you have posted in regards to these original points has nothing to do wtih the original points. It's all made up in your head. You actually went out of your way to create a hostile situation by making things up. Oh yeah, and the proverbial name calling because you can't handle reality.

Proof is in the pudding. Rayner cut from packers, rayner cut from kc.

Just like your absurd tt rants, etc. you just can't comprehend what is right in front of your face.