Christl: Driver got ext w/2yrs left, why not Walker?

[motife]

FRIDAY, May 12, 2006, 10:26 a.m.

Driver's new contract
Donald Driver probably can thank Javon Walker for his new contract. It was interesting that Michael Smith of ESPN reported one day that Driver was unhappy with his contract and wanted out if he didn't get more money; and the next day, Driver denied those statements and backed off on any demands. Could it be that the Packers immediately got word to him and promised an extension if he didn't go public and make it appear that he was holding a gun to their head?

After all, Walker gave Driver leverage. To a lesser degree, so did the loss of last year's second-round draft pick Terrence Murphy. The Packers couldn't lose both of their starting receivers and their best prospect at the position and have any expectation of improving on last year's 4-12 record.

Even though the Packers probably didn't want to redo Driver's deal for another year and were worried about the precedent it might set, it's good business in today's NFL to not have any etched in stone rules. During the lean post-Lombardi years and before free agency, the Packers occasonally put themselves in a box with hard and fast rules. That was one reason they lost Ted Hendricks. Ron Wolf changed that. His philosophy was that a team should do what it has to do to keep its best players.

General manager Ted Thompson has succeeded in doing that in this case. He failed to do that with Walker.

McKenzie to Houston
Reggie McKenzie has been groomed by Ron Wolf, one of the most respected personnel people in the history of the game. As head of the Green Bay Packers' pro personnel since 1997, he has run a department that has uncovered such street free agents as Samkon Gado and Colin Cole. He seems to be one of those rare front-office executives who is trusted by both management and players. So it would make sense if he's on the Houston Texans' short list of candidates to fill the position being vacated by general manager Charley Casserly.

But will the position be attractive enough to lure McKenzie if he's interested?

It would be a promotion. But it's unclear how much authority would go with it. And McKenzie would be working with a coach he didn't hire or have any say in hiring.

Those jobs where there seems to be a lot of gray without a clearly defined organizational chart rarely seem to work out. Just recently look at developments in Minnesota and San Francisco.

Moreover, even though the new personnel guy in Houston will have had nothing to say about the Mario Williams pick, it still might cost him his job some day. If Williams turns out to be a huge disappointment and Reggie Bush becomes a superstar, it might set the Texans back to the point where it will be impossible to win there for three to five years or more.

Walker changes stance; Or did he?
The latest word from Javon Walker, based on reports from Denver after he had signed his contract extention, was that his beef wasn't with Brett Favre. It was with general manager Ted Thompson. "I would play with Favre if he went to another team," Walker was quoted as saying. "The thing I liked about him was he gave me a chance to make plays." On the other hand, Walker said he was upset with Thompson for "flat-out" refusing to discuss a new contract.

On the surface, it would seem that Walker has done an about-face here. But has he? His latest comments simply seem to confirm that this spat has been about one thing and one thing only since the start: Money.

Once again all the babble you've heard and read from pundits about all the other parties involved, notably Favre and Drew Rosenhaus, was a waste of time and space. All that talk about Rosenhaus being the culprit, Favre being out of place for what he said, etc., was meaningless.

For future reference: These disputes are almost always about money. Maybe not 100% of the time, but probably somewhere north of 99%

[Iron Mike]

FRIDAY, May 12, 2006, 10:26 a.m.

Driver's new contract
Donald Driver probably can thank Javon Walker for his new contract.

Agreed. Just like Al Harris should've thanked Mike Mackenzie for HIS new contract.

Moral of the story--don't be an ass about your contract, continue to perform and the Packers will take care of you. :roll:

[Joemailman]

Neither Al Harris nor Donald Driver put a gun to the Gm's head, and they eventually got what they deserved. Why is this so hard for people to understand?

[ND72]

yeah, neither driver or harris went to the extreme to get a contract, they just simply asked for it, or mentioned it...they didn't go to espn to get heard.

[Guiness]

Also important to point out that they didn't renegotiate DD's contract, they extended it. Walker wanted to renegotiate the existing years.

Loads of difference, IMO.

[Brohm]

They renegotiated this year and extended it 2 years. I believe he gets about 4 million in signing/roster bonuses this year from the new deal.

[GBRulz]

Driver didn't demand top WR money, either.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Donald Driver probably can thank Javon Walker for his new contract. It was interesting that Michael Smith of ESPN reported one day that Driver was unhappy with his contract and wanted out if he didn't get more money; and the next day, Driver denied those statements and backed off on any demands. Could it be that the Packers immediately got word to him and promised an extension if he didn't go public and make it appear that he was holding a gun to their head?

After all, Walker gave Driver leverage.

Christl is right on. He is looking with clear, objective eyes.

Driver is entering his end game, the Packers did not extend his contract for the joy of locking-him-in when he's 34-years-old. They DESPERATELY need his services the next two seasons, while Driver is still at top of his game.

If Driver really was willing to continue working in 2006 and 2007 under his current contract, of course Thompson would have done nothing! Thompson did not give Driver an extra $8M (or so) for these two years just to reward him for being a good guy, doing things right. That is a fairy tale.

Just because Driver did not make public threats does not tell the whole story of his real bargaining position.

[Scott Campbell]

Christl is speculating just like everyone else.

[Patler]

There are a lot of different factors that go into renegotiations, the most critical I think is the teams evaluation of the liklihood that the player will continue to perform as in the past.

Driver has proven to be a player who will consistently perform at a certain level. He has done it for a number of years. He has proven to be durable, in spite of a relatively small stature.

Once the team decides that they want to secure his services for a given period, in this case four years, it becomes a currently value analysis. How much are they willing to pay now to secure future extended services. It has nothing to do with any "threat" from Driver. Players just do not have that kind of power over the team.

Several factors entered into the Walker situation, the most significant being that he had not shown himself to be a consistent performer over a number of seasons, and had not shown himself to be durable. Even in 2004 he was dinged up and out during a couple games. Had he come in and performed during the first half of 2005 like he did in 2004, there is no doubt in my mind the Packers would have made a great offer before the season ended.

Walker wanted career security before he earned career security. He still has not gotten it, but he might earn it this season, just like he could have in GB last season.

[RashanGary]

Driver used all of his power as a good player to get what he felt he needed at this point in his career. The team did pretty much what they had to do to field what they think could be a winning team. In the end it was a big W for Donald.

There is nothing wrong with any player or any team doing what is best for their side.

The amount of money Walker wanted and the amount of money Driver wanted were so different. Thompson was just starting his first year on the job and I think he wanted to evaluate the roster before spending 40 million. Thompson probably had a few preconcieved ideas of how he was going to opperate. I don't think he envisioned that type of pressure being applied from the players. I can't even begin to list the variables and differences but this is not an exact science like a chemistry lab where you put vile A into vile B and you get the same outcome every time. These are human beings with and unlimited amout of variables and even emotions. Walker was putting public pressure on the team before training camp even began. Sure it's a buisness and supposed to be emotion free but these GM's are warm blooded mammal's and I'm sure a good old fashioned public line drawn in the sand raises anyones blood pressure. You ever play poker? It's a primative feeling when your ready for a showdown.

Technically speaking it is all a leverage game but to directly equate what Javon did to what Donald did is not necessarily the same thing. Similar? Yes. Same? I don't know that. I understand what you're saying H.H. I think you're a little frustrated with all the fans saying "This guy is a good person. He deserved that money. Thompson did the moral thing" You're frustration being expressed in a confrontational way and I think I'm arguing just to argue because of the tone in your voice. Acctually, I agree with the basis of your stand but I find myself defending the team. "emotions". Even the most logical, which I'm not claiming to be, are subseptable to them.

[RashanGary]

Even N.E. extended Seymore early when they have a history of not backing down. It wasn't because Seymore asked when the 7 moons of Saturn aligned and walks dogs on Tuesday afternoons for the humane society. It is because he is one of the leagues most impactfull players and he wanted to get paid like one. Losing Seymore would have had a huge negative effect on the team. It helped Seymore's cause that he didn't manufacture a public showdown and his asking price was reasonalbe for what he can be expected to earn.

Is Javon as important of a player as Richard Seymore? Where Javons demands reasonalbe? Did Thompson make some rookie mistakes? Was it bad timing with Thompson just stepping into a new position. Again there are a lot of variables but like H.H. said, it is not out of kindness. Chatman was a hard worker and good person. The team turned their back on him as soon as possible. It's just not some big happy family helping each other out. It is a buisness and because of the set cap and competition for each others jobs including the GM jobs, it is ruthless and riggid.

Driver used the right tools. He had just enough levarage to get what he wanted. He had reasonable expectations. A lot of things went into Driver getting paid and the unconditional love for a good guy is not one of them. It helps that he doesn't have character question marks but his play and imporatance to the team where probably bigger reasons than is charming smile. Just ask the duece. He was sent packing like one of those whores at 56.

[Patler]

I think Walker made a huge tactical blunder by making his demands when he did, unless that was his intent all along. He backed the Packers into a corner when the team was trying to figure out what to do with Wahle, Rivera and Sharper and/or replacements for them, while making sure they did the right thing with RFAs like Kampman. If Walker had let those situations settle out before making a stink over his contract he would have been much better received. Basically, if he had waited until closer to training camp, when the team knew where it was with its cap for 2005, maybe something could have been worked out. Basically Walker alienated himself by adding a problem at about the worst time that he could have.

I can't believe that was unintentional, which is why I have argued for the last year that Walker/Rosenhaus did not approach this like they wanted to work something out so that Walker could stay in GB. I have always felt that the approach was more like that of a player who really wanted to leave, either sooner or later. Yes, he wanted money, but he preferred to get it from someone other than the Packers, because the approach they took almost guaranteed that it would not come from GB..

[Bretsky]

Even N.E. extended Seymore early when they have a history of not backing down. It wasn't because Seymore asked when the 7 moons of Saturn aligned and walks dogs on Tuesday afternoons for the humane society. It is because he is one of the leagues most impactfull players and he wanted to get paid like one. Losing Seymore would have had a huge negative effect on the team. It helped Seymore's cause that he didn't manufacture a public showdown and his asking price was reasonalbe for what he can be expected to earn.

Is Javon as important of a player as Richard Seymore? Where Javons demands reasonalbe? Did Thompson make some rookie mistakes? Was it bad timing with Thompson just stepping into a new position. Again there are a lot of variables but like H.H. said, it is not out of kindness. Chatman was a hard worker and good person. The team turned their back on him as soon as possible. It's just not some big happy family helping each other out. It is a buisness and because of the set cap and competition for each others jobs including the GM jobs, it is ruthless and riggid.

Driver used the right tools. He had just enough levarage to get what he wanted. He had reasonable expectations. A lot of things went into Driver getting paid and the unconditional love for a good guy is not one of them. It helps that he doesn't have character question marks but his play and imporatance to the team where probably bigger reasons than is charming smile. Just ask the duece. He was sent packing like one of those whores at 56.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Seymour coming out of his first contract. So that too makes it harder to justify rewriting Walker's deal with two years left as opposed to Seymour. But I agree with all your points; Driver did it the right way and Walker did not. But JW wanted instant satisfaction and the route to get that didn't matter to him.

TT made some rookie mistakes; on the other hand Javon had to become a self serving crybaby to achieve what he wanted and that could be used against him sometime down the road. I can't put all the blame on either completely, but I wish the end results were different.

[RashanGary]

I think it was Walker really wanting more money combined with Rosenhaus who has been quoted as saying he wants to change the game.

He was making it a public showdown and his end result was to put the power in the hands of the agent and the player. He was basically on a power crusade to prove he could impact the NFL like no other agent has.

Like you said, they pushed the Packers in a corner at the worste possible time. I don't think the goal was to get out of GB but to prove to everyone that this is how things are going to be done from now on. It was an ego-driven miscalculation in my opinion and it blew up in his face.

Rosenhaus went from having a rockstar like image to being just another guy. Had he succeeded he would be one of the biggest names in the NFL and IMO that is what he set out to do. He came pretty close.

There is no question that some motives where behind the Walker saga. Whether it be your reasonable theory or my conspiracy theory there is little doubt that something was at play other than just getting a re-negotiation. There is absolutely no reason for the way Walker and Drew where hitting the talk radio circuit and ESPN the way they where. Like I said, I truely believe Rosenhaus was trying to change the game and he is a glory hog. It blew up but in his face but it also blew up in ours.

[Rivers Rutherford]

You can't renegotiate a rookie deal--it just isn't done due to salary cap reasons. As a franchise, you need to know you have Player X locked in for X years at X dollars so that you can go about building your team and plan for the cap's future appropriately. What would happen if every damn rookie wanted to renegotiate after 2 or 3 years and pulled the JW bs? Mayhem. You can't redo a rookie deal--espeically when the guy goes about it like JW did. Piss on him.

[pbmax]

You can't renegotiate a rookie deal--it just isn't done due to salary cap reasons. As a franchise, you need to know you have Player X locked in for X years at X dollars so that you can go about building your team and plan for the cap's future appropriately.
Seymour had his rookie deal redone, and it was redone twice. He held out of, or threatened to, minicamps last summer. They gave him a boost last year and promised a new deal this year, which they delivered.

Christl is right, there are no hard and fast rules. But I think he underestimates the role of the agent. Rosenhaus has been reported to be happy to create a media firestorm and get momentum out of declarations, false deadlines and a story a day.

The idea is to create public perception that something must be done, either capitulate and offer more money or deal the player.

[mraynrand]

Even more worrisome than any GB player's extention, is the fact that JSOnline is considering a contract extention for Cliff Cristl. Reportedly, there is no signing bonus.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Once the team decides that they want to secure his services for a given period, in this case four years, it becomes a currently value analysis. How much are they willing to pay now to secure future extended services. It has nothing to do with any "threat" from Driver. Players just do not have that kind of power over the team.


But the team already had Driver secured for the next two years, at a bargain rate. And they have minimal incentive to lock-up Driver for years 3 and 4, why take that risk now on a 31-year-old player who takes a lot of hard hits?
If the team held all the power, as you suggest, they would have just held Driver to his old contract and saved themselves about $10M.

[b bulldog]

Driver is a pro's pro.

[Tarlam!]

Thompson did not give Driver an extra $8M (or so) for these two years just to reward him for being a good guy, doing things right. That is a fairy tale.

Just because Driver did not make public threats does not tell the whole story of his real bargaining position.

Well, as all readers of this forum know, except HH, the above quote is absolute bull dust!

The TRUTH of the matter is, TT is an avid reader of these pages, and he has obviously come to regard my comments highly. As you all know, I have been pleading

ALL OFF-SEASON LONG


for this deal to take shape, and now that it has happened, I feel better nights.

You'all could show me a little appreciation for having driven this.

[Noodle]

F

Christl is right, there are no hard and fast rules. But I think he underestimates the role of the agent. Rosenhaus has been reported to be happy to create a media firestorm and get momentum out of declarations, false deadlines and a story a day.


Exactly right. Negotiations are a human interaction, and the personality of the humans involved can matter a lot.

At the same time, I agree with Christl (and HH) that Driver's rep for being a good guy had just about nothing to do with this deal. Driver's timing was impecable, and he had an agent who was smart enough not to make this a hefty nutsack competition with TT. But to think the Pack did this because DD is a good guy is delusional.

In the end, we we stupid not to do Walker smarter, and we were immature to let Rosenhaus get under our skin. But if TT has learned from this, then I'd have to say we paid a steep, but perhaps necessary, price in learning how to keep a team together in today's market.

And let's hear no more about "you can't do this or that because then the players are running the show." What a load of crap. You do what you need to do to keep your great players at home. The Lombardi days of trading Ringo to the Iggles are over. Too bad it cost us Walker for TT to figure that out.

[Green Bud Packer]

the pack renegotiated old number 65 mark tauscher's rookie contract because he was under paid. the pack re-did driver because he was under paid. the pack did'nt re-do walker cause he was being paid what a guy who was the 20th pick should be paid. thompson's doing fine in my world.

[Scott Campbell]

The Lombardi days of trading Ringo to the Iggles are over.

If that's true, then why is TO playing for the Cowboys this year?

You can't let one or two players dictate the structure of your salary cap, or the culture of your organization. The Eagles get it. The Niners get it. The Packers get it. I'd guess just about everyone in the NFL gets it.

Why can't you get it?

[Noodle]

Um, SC, have you been reading the posts. The Pack re-did Driver's deal. The Pack re-did Tausch's deal. Harris got his deal re-done. Seymore got his deal re-done.

What are you talking about with this "let a few players dictate you cap" bit? Favre counted for over 10% of the cap last year, dictating it greater than any two players combined (not sure, but that sounds cool).

Of course a few players are going to "dictate" your cap, whatever that means. The trick is to make sure that you are only paying the huge money to the guys who are worth it. But if they're worth it, you pay 'em if at all possible.

What are you saving your money for, a box of pez?

[Scott Campbell]

"let a few players dictate you cap" bit?


Why would you chose quote marks when that's not what I said?

[Scott Campbell]

The Pack re-did Driver's deal. The Pack re-did Tausch's deal. Harris got his deal re-done.


Exactly. These are all players that didn't throw hissy fits in the media.

[Scott Campbell]

Most teams get rid of trouble makers at one point or another.

[Scott Campbell]

What are you saving your money for, a box of pez?


And what's wrong with Pez?

[cosimoto]

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g183/cosimoto/SamuraiGB7.jpg I think it is becoming obvious that TT is not simply going to add talented players (or keep talented players) if those talented players come with huge ego problems. He is intrested in building a team, a particular type of team, one with players who are skilled, or who have the potential to become skilled, and who are willing to put the team first. TT has a vision, and he is prepared to make the tough decisions, like getting rid of Javon, in order to realize his vision. I for one applaud his approach. I think we are going to be in for some great years very soon.

[Noodle]

And what's wrong with Pez?

Actually, Pez are kind of tasty. Point well taken.

I'll agree with you on this, too -- DD didn't get money because he's a good guy, but he got the opportunity to get his money because he wasn't an a-hole.

That's why I agreed with some other posters who thought that Rosenhaus's personality and tactics was a big reason they came to loggerheads.

It wasn't the principle, it was the personality.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It was all but inevitable that Driver would get his deal redone. The Packers backs were against the wall.

It's curious that Tarlam and you other "a contract is a contract" types aren't disturbed that Driver's contract was rewritten with two years remaining. The Packer had him locked into a great deal from the team's perspective. Why wouldn't you want Driver to play-out his contract for $2M rather than pay him $10M for those two years? That's money for an aditional quality free agent. According to your theory, Driver's a good soldier who would just honor the contract.

Well, in the bizarre event that Thompson had refused to redo Driver's deal, there would have been some fast scrambling here in the forum. It is unimaginable that Driver would have just turned-the-other cheek, and ended his career with a relatively small pot of retirement gold. He would have been thrown into the "bad guy" pile.

[RashanGary]

So whats the difference H.H.

Why did Walker get turned down and Driver get his deal.

[Harlan Huckleby]

That's a good damn question, NC.

It could be that Walker's specific demands were unreasonable, and he was too quick to make confrontation public. Or Thompson may have miscalculated. I really don't know.

Thompson and Walker should have worked out an extension back in spring of 2005. Don't know who is to blame for that not happening.

The Driver renegotiation was a no-brainer, given all the circumstances.

[Merlin]

You can't renegotiate a rookie deal--it just isn't done due to salary cap reasons. As a franchise, you need to know you have Player X locked in for X years at X dollars so that you can go about building your team and plan for the cap's future appropriately. What would happen if every damn rookie wanted to renegotiate after 2 or 3 years and pulled the JW bs? Mayhem. You can't redo a rookie deal--espeically when the guy goes about it like JW did. Piss on him.

I agree that this shouldn't be done. You also have to look at Walker for this too. He is the one that wanted a long term rookie deal. He got it, played like Fergeson did last year for a few years, had one good year (with a lot of dropped balls) and then wanted T.O. money. Nice try.

[RashanGary]

Do you think maybe he was asking for top 5 WR money after one good year of football and still had 2 years remaining?

I think the magnitude of the request played a part too. I think the timing and way it was approached was pretty confrontational and ultimately helped caused Walker to sign a crap fugazi deal in Denver.

I think Driver was requesting a deal that was worth consideration. Walker was asking for unrealistic expectations. There is a price you pay to get yours early. I don't think Rosenhaus was opperating within the standard procedures of early deals. I think he thought he could get his way by putting on pressure. I think that was a miscalculation right there too.

It is a fact that Driver being a very good player used his weight to get this eeal done. He didn't threaten to hold out, but having an extremely unhappy player and extremely underpaid player is not always good buisness. Walker tried to use his wieght in a different way. I think he thought he could get more than the team was willing to give and that fugazi he signed in Denver is evidence in that regard.

In the end, Driver was being shrewd, but not stupid. I think maybe Walker was asking for too much.

[MJZiggy]

In that ridiculous radio interview posted in another thread, Driver said that he told TT he wanted to retire a Packer and how can we make that happen. I'd be willing to bet Walker walked in asking for lots more money and there's a big difference between the two.