Drafting RBs

[HarveyWallbangers]

From Peter King:


I think I don't care how good Darren McFadden looked last Friday, and if you saw how he steamrolled LSU in Baton Rouge, you know he looked like a future star in the NFL. Probably. I wouldn't use a high first-round pick on him. Of the top 50 running backs in the NFL entering this weekend (ranked by rushing yards), 30 were not first-round picks. In my team rankings this week, I've got New England, Indianapolis, Dallas, Green Bay and Pittsburgh as my top five. The Patriots (11-0) have a running game by committee. Tony Dungy of the 9-2 Colts has given CFL refugee Kenton Keith 9.0 carries a game. The 10-1 Packers have had rushing efforts of 104, 55, 119, 88 and 101 yards from Ryan Grant in the last month. Grant, an undrafted free-agent by the Giants in 2005, entered camp fifth on the Giants' depth chart this summer, then was traded to Green Bay for a sixth-round draft choice. Dallas (10-1) has Julius Jones and Marion Barber III manning the running game. Jones was the 43rd player picked in the draft when he came out, Barber the 109th. Undrafted college free-agent Willie Parker -- who couldn't get consistent playing time at North Carolina -- has 3,624 yards over the last two years and 10 games for the 7-3 Steelers. More than any position in football, running back is the one you can find players from the most disparate sources.

[3irty1]

Stupid. McFadden is a once in a decade prospect.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Stupid. McFadden is a once in a decade prospect.

Dang, must be a new decade since I thought AD was a once in a decade prospect. :roll:

More importantly, do you need a once in a decade runner to win the Superbowl? Methinks no.

[Lurker64]

Stupid. McFadden is a once in a decade prospect.

Dang, must be a new decade since I thought AD was a once in a decade prospect. :roll:

More importantly, do you need a once in a decade runner to win the Superbowl? Methinks no.

Don't forget, Reggie Bush was also a once in a decade prospect. He was drawing comparisons to every hall of fame running back out there before he was even drafted.

Likewise, don't forget that Tony Mandarich wasn't only supposed to be a "once in a decade prospect" he was supposed to be "the best prospect of all time" (at his position).

Being a "rare prospect" doesn't amount to a damn thing in this league.

[3irty1]

Pretty sure that being a good prospect matters. Once in a while good prospects end up being good players in the NFL.... more often that bad prospects even.

McFadden is bigger than Bush and faster and more versatile than AP. Not saying he'll be better in the NFL than either one but I am saying that he's not someone you should pass on in the draft just because he's a running back.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Pretty sure that being a good prospect matters. Once in a while good prospects end up being good players in the NFL.... more often that bad prospects even.

McFadden is bigger than Bush and faster and more versatile than AP. Not saying he'll be better in the NFL than either one but I am saying that he's not someone you should pass on in the draft just because he's a running back.

Sure, no doubt we could use him. But, can we use him more than another once in a decade CB, QB, etc.

And, with our offense is he the right back or get the use that a traditional running team would?

Good to great RBs are found all the time. History shows you can win the superbowl without having the greatest back. Infact, great backs often don't win the superbowl, Dickerson, OJ, Payton didn't win till he was long gone from being a great back, etc.

NE wins without a great back..Dillon long gone from that role. GB wins with Dorsey. Ravens with Lewis. Bucs win with Pittman. Steelers win without great back. Colts as well.

I understand and acknowlege what you are saying. This is a difference in drafting philosophy. Same as others saying don't draft a linemen in the first round.

Funny, but i recall a similar thread around draft time last year.

[Fritz]

At this point, barring a collapse of both the Packers and McFadden, it looks as if Green Bay won't have the opportunity to draft him anyway. They probably won't even have a chance to draft Felix Jones, either.

[Partial]

Stupid. McFadden is a once in a decade prospect.

Are you crazy? There is a Darren McFadden every year. Hell, there was one out of Cal last year.

[Partial]

Pretty sure that being a good prospect matters. Once in a while good prospects end up being good players in the NFL.... more often that bad prospects even.

McFadden is bigger than Bush and faster and more versatile than AP. Not saying he'll be better in the NFL than either one but I am saying that he's not someone you should pass on in the draft just because he's a running back.

He is not as fast, as powerful, as strong, or as versatile. What's in your OJ this morning. I'm not a huge McFadden fan but if you were around here last year I was screaming for a trade up for Peterson from the rooftops.

[Partial]

Reggie Bush, Calvin Johnson, Darren McFadden, Eli Manning, Charles Rodgers, Julius Peppers (ok, this one worked out :lol: ), Mike Vick, Courtney Brown

Hmmmm... Can't miss prospects eh...

We won't be drafting high enough to get DM but I could see us around the time of Ray Rice or Jonathan Stewart. Likewise, I liked what I saw out of that Arizona corner who forced the big time fumble in the Oregon game by laying the wood. He's a low first round prospect as well and seemed to embrace contact at least in that game.

[The Leaper]

He is not as fast, as powerful, as strong, or as versatile. What's in your OJ this morning. I'm not a huge McFadden fan but if you were around here last year I was screaming for a trade up for Peterson from the rooftops.

You could have screamed all you want...it was next to impossible for Green Bay to move up that far without giving up a ridiculous price. The only way teams move up into the top 6 or 8 picks is to have an additional first round pick to work with.

There was no realistic chance at AP last year for Green Bay. Our 4 game win streak to end the season eliminated that chance. Moving up to get Lynch was more realistic.

[Partial]

I realize that. I thought he'd fall further down.

[cheesner]

Selective memories.

I really think King is rather low on the football IQ amongst writers. What about RBs drafted high like Barry Sanders, LT, Edge, etc? All made huge impacts on their teams.

The simple fact remains, the higher you draft the MORE likely you will get a player. Doesn't guarrantee it, but it makes it more likely. King needs to make a list of all the RBs drafted in the last 3 years that have made no impact in the NFL to understand this point.

[Cheesehead Craig]

McFadden is not worth trading that far up for. He won't be a Packer. There are a good number of very good backs available next year.

[hoosier]

Selective memories.

I really think King is rather low on the football IQ amongst writers. What about RBs drafted high like Barry Sanders, LT, Edge, etc? All made huge impacts on their teams.

The simple fact remains, the higher you draft the MORE likely you will get a player. Doesn't guarrantee it, but it makes it more likely. King needs to make a list of all the RBs drafted in the last 3 years that have made no impact in the NFL to understand this point.

I think his point is that none of the backs you name led their teams to a SB win. They may be great backs, but that in itself doesn't make for a great team, and on the other hand it is very possible to put together a great team without having an elite running back. The Colts and Pats are prime examples today. The Lions were perenially mediocre with Sanders, the Colts showed that they can win with or without James, and LT....well, if you have Norv Turner as your head coach you're pretty much screwed no matter how good your running backs are.

[jramsey495]

pay michael turner... draft a corner.

we're getting old at cb and ot. the only place we're old (except brett) but bad places to be old at...

[Carolina_Packer]

Well, one thing's for sure, we have to keep rooting for the 49'ers to win this year to keep NE from being able to get McFadden. That would just be an embarrassment of riches for them to get a talent like him to go with Brady and Moss. Go Niners!

The mock drafts that I've seen have Green Bay drafting either RB Jonathan Stewart from Oregon or RB Steve Slaton from WV.

So, if either was available or Felix Jones was still available, would you go for any of them, or would you pass on all and go different position?

Is it possible that Steve Slaton could turn into the next Trung Candidate?

[Partial]

Pass, i'd look at Cason from Arizona

[Carolina_Packer]

Pass, i'd look at Cason from Arizona

If Cason is gone by the time the Pack drafts would you consider Mike Jenkins, CB South Florida or Jack Ikegwuonu, CB Wisconsin? Are either of them 1st round talent worthy? Mock drafts are fun, but they seem so slanted toward drafting for need, even though I think drafting for need and best player available is a sliding scale continuum, not an either/or. You're still drafting who you think is a great talent, and most likely are drafting someone you need; when do you not need talent? Would they pass on a QB if they were the best player on their board when their pick came up? Hmm...

[The Leaper]

Personally, I think CB is a greater need than RB. If a good physical CB is available at our pick, we'll take a good look at him.

[run pMc]

I think if given the chance, you draft a guy like AD, Lynch, or McFadden. But if (as was the case last year & likely this year as well) there isn't anyone at RB who fits the BPA for where you're drafting, you look either trading down or drafting a RB later. You can find good RBs at any point in the draft...but I think that you have a better chance of doing that if you draft them early and pick someone who fits your system.

The ZBS allegedly lets you get away with using lower round draft picks at RB. GB gave up a R6 for Grant, but I'll bet TT looks for more RB depth next offseason. I doubt it will be with a R1 pick though.

[Partial]

You tend to get players that are a better body type and faster in the first round. IE if there is a 5'11" 220 lbs who runs a 4.3 odds are he's going to go early, even if his college production doesn't justify it.

Give me Rice or Stewart any day of the week.

[SkinBasket]

but I'll bet TT looks for more RB depth next offseason. I doubt it will be with a R1 pick though.

Not a terribly big bet since we've only got two decent backs on the roster, Grant and Jackson. Wynn and Morency are easily replaceable.

If Wynn learns how to work out in the off-season, he might have a shot at a back-up spot next year, but I'm not convinced that'll happen given his complaining about being put on IR.

Morency is a place holder until we find someone with more upside to develop and play ST.

[3irty1]

He is not as fast, as powerful, as strong, or as versatile. What's in your OJ this morning. I'm not a huge McFadden fan but if you were around here last year I was screaming for a trade up for Peterson from the rooftops.

Every draft has a Darren McFadden? Not as versatile as AP? What the hell are you talking about? McFadden can catch and run routes like a WR and even pass. That's a pretty versatile weapon. McFadden was the best back in the country last year in college and is again this year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

What little I've seen of McFadden, he's not even close to Peterson in ability.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think if given the chance, you draft a guy like AD, Lynch, or McFadden.

AD? Yes. McFadden? Possibly. Lynch? Nah. He's overrated. These are the types of guys you can easily find. I think that was King's point. Ryan Grant has been as impressive as Lynch. He just doesn't have the first round label, so people want to question his ability. Of course, if you get a chance at an Adrian Peterson-like talent, you take him.

[3irty1]

Reggie Bush, Calvin Johnson, Darren McFadden, Eli Manning, Charles Rodgers, Julius Peppers (ok, this one worked out :lol: ), Mike Vick, Courtney Brown

Hmmmm... Can't miss prospects eh...

We won't be drafting high enough to get DM but I could see us around the time of Ray Rice or Jonathan Stewart. Likewise, I liked what I saw out of that Arizona corner who forced the big time fumble in the Oregon game by laying the wood. He's a low first round prospect as well and seemed to embrace contact at least in that game.

Are you calling Bush and Johnson busts? Carson Palmer was. Peyton Manning was. Mike Vick defiantly was too and he was spectacular. I don't get what you're trying to say here? Don't draft "can't miss" prospects because they could bust?

I thought you were an Eli Manning fan by the way.

[3irty1]

You tend to get players that are a better body type and faster in the first round. IE if there is a 5'11" 220 lbs who runs a 4.3 odds are he's going to go early, even if his college production doesn't justify it.

Give me Rice or Stewart any day of the week.

I like those guys too.

McFadden is one of the guys whose college numbers justify it though. What do you have against him?

[3irty1]

I agree with all of you by the way. With our late 1st round pick we'll be in a good spot for one of the many great CB this year. I wouldn't complain about scooping up a guy like Stewart or Rice or even Slaton though. I just hope we get someone who plays :roll:

[TennesseePackerBacker]

What little I've seen of McFadden, he's not even close to Peterson in ability.


Like I say in every other post referring to college football. Get your head out of big 11 country and watch some real football.

McFadden is a game-changer, period. Arkansas is a mediocre team at best without McFadden(Jones keeping him fresh is key as well.). McFadden has single-handidly won games for his team this year, and he isn't even a QB(well sometimes). Not to mention he has kept a pretty good bill of health the past 3 years, he never seems to take the big hit either. I could go on and on about why McFadden will be such a good player in the NFL but it's really just too easy at this point.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Peterson is truly a unique talent. It's no disservice to say McFadden isn't that good.

Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk, LaDainian Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson

Guys like them don't come along often.

[SkinBasket]

I could go on and on about why McFadden will be such a good player in the NFL but it's really just too easy at this point.

It would be too easy because he hasn't played in the NFL yet. I believe a guy is a "game changer" or a "once in a decade back" when he proves it, not before. There are simply too many players that were supposed to do this and that - change the NFL, change the world, explode the very conception of the way the position is played, yadda, yadda, yadda, and ended up in India chasing their next smoke, or as a Dolphin nickel back, or as an average player with a lot of college trophies and honors on his mantle, or as a grocery bagger.

So it's all well and nice to get excited about a guy playing at the next level, but just don't go getting that McFadden Rules! tattoo just yet.

[Freak Out]

I could go on and on about why McFadden will be such a good player in the NFL but it's really just too easy at this point.

It would be too easy because he hasn't played in the NFL yet. I believe a guy is a "game changer" or a "once in a decade back" when he proves it, not before. There are simply too many players that were supposed to do this and that - change the NFL, change the world, explode the very conception of the way the position is played, yadda, yadda, yadda, and ended up in India chasing their next smoke, or as a Dolphin nickel back, or as an average player with a lot of college trophies and honors on his mantle, or as a grocery bagger.

So it's all well and nice to get excited about a guy playing at the next level, but just don't go getting that McFadden Rules! tattoo just yet.

I think McFadden will be a great NFL RB and dancer....he does have those "Nureyev" legs you look for.

[Carolina_Packer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ-bTAHYCxo&feature=related

I love watching him run, but the first run in this video is particularly stunning. His footwork is incredible.

I don't know...when you start getting into discussions about who's best...Reggie Bush, Adrian Peterson, Darren McFadden, it's like arguing who is the better guitarist. Obviously there are factors beyond their control. Reggie Bush was dominant at USC, but he is yet to show such dominance at New Orleans. AP was dominant at Oklahoma and has shown a lot of that dominance at Minnesota, with a few games being the exception. Darren McFadden looks every bit as explosive as the other two guys, but you never know what might happen. It is impressive how he makes things happen on a lot of individual effort. There are a lot of big runs where the DB's are staring at the back of his uniform and he's still finding another gear. Wow!

But, like Skin said, let's see what he does when he gets to the NFL. Again, I really hope the Patriots have no shot to draft him, because that would just suck if they got him.

[packers11]

There is no way in hell we get McFadden :( ...

The packers will prob get the #25 pick or higher and there is no way he is dropping that far down and there is no way T.T. will trade up...

To bad we didn't trade with SF and their first round pick :lol:

[Carolina_Packer]

It's all the 49ers fault. I knew it! Just look at this:

http://www.49erswebzone.com/content/commentary/view.php?id=548

The table shows what they did with draft day trades last year. I wasn't aware that the Patriots parlayed the 4th received in trade from the Niners last year and used to trade to Oakland to get Randy Moss. That was at Pick 110 (which incidentally was used by Oakland to pick CB John Bowie from the Bearcats of Cincinnati). The Pack picked Allen Barbre at 119.

So, not only did New England take advantage of the Niners desperation, they parlayed one of the given picks to scoop TT for Randy Moss and now might end up picking high enough to get Darren McFadden. They're good! You gotta give them that! They won't even miss the pick lost for Spygate.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Pass, i'd look at Cason from Arizona

If Cason is gone by the time the Pack drafts would you consider Mike Jenkins, CB South Florida or Jack Ikegwuonu, CB Wisconsin? Are either of them 1st round talent worthy? Mock drafts are fun, but they seem so slanted toward drafting for need, even though I think drafting for need and best player available is a sliding scale continuum, not an either/or. You're still drafting who you think is a great talent, and most likely are drafting someone you need; when do you not need talent? Would they pass on a QB if they were the best player on their board when their pick came up? Hmm...

According to JSonline, Ike prolly coming back as chance to be #1 corner.

I pray that he and beckum return. I'd settle for one of two.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

He is not as fast, as powerful, as strong, or as versatile. What's in your OJ this morning. I'm not a huge McFadden fan but if you were around here last year I was screaming for a trade up for Peterson from the rooftops.

Every draft has a Darren McFadden? Not as versatile as AP? What the hell are you talking about? McFadden can catch and run routes like a WR and even pass. That's a pretty versatile weapon. McFadden was the best back in the country last year in college and is again this year.

I agree. I just didn't want to say it or partial would say i'm being argumentatvie.

AD is a great runner, but can't catch worth a lick.

Mcfadden can do it all. Not saying he is a better runner, but definitely more versatile. Can you imagine if they split favre wide like they did but with Mcfadden at Qb/RB. Yikes.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

What little I've seen of McFadden, he's not even close to Peterson in ability.


Like I say in every other post referring to college football. Get your head out of big 11 country and watch some real football.

McFadden is a game-changer, period. Arkansas is a mediocre team at best without McFadden(Jones keeping him fresh is key as well.). McFadden has single-handidly won games for his team this year, and he isn't even a QB(well sometimes). Not to mention he has kept a pretty good bill of health the past 3 years, he never seems to take the big hit either. I could go on and on about why McFadden will be such a good player in the NFL but it's really just too easy at this point.

I respect Mr. Wallbanger, but on this one i'm squarely in Mc's camp.

Arkansas last year had a qb who made Donovan look like...well, Leinart. Dick was terrible, yet that team contended for the SEC title.

This year, dick is better, and Mc still carries that team. Man, he has over 300 carries and he hasn't been hurt. 284 last year. AD couldn't make it thru a season without getting dinged up pretty good. AD is way more physical and so that takes a toll.

AD could be a great but shortlived back like the tyler rose. If he doesn't learn to avoid hitting people he won't play more than 7 years.

I'm sold on Mc. I'm not sold on a first round pick of a rb for the pack. But, if they took him or got him some how, i'd be very happy.

[superfan]

Not a terribly big bet since we've only got two decent backs on the roster, Grant and Jackson. Wynn and Morency are easily replaceable.

If Wynn learns how to work out in the off-season, he might have a shot at a back-up spot next year, but I'm not convinced that'll happen given his complaining about being put on IR.

Morency is a place holder until we find someone with more upside to develop and play ST.

You missed Noah "The Franchise" Herron. Like the new Chevy Malibu, you can't miss Noah Herron.

Herron is the Chevy Malibu of running backs.

[superfan]

Sure, no doubt we could use him. But, can we use him more than another once in a decade CB, QB, etc.

And, with our offense is he the right back or get the use that a traditional running team would?

Good to great RBs are found all the time. History shows you can win the superbowl without having the greatest back. Infact, great backs often don't win the superbowl, Dickerson, OJ, Payton didn't win till he was long gone from being a great back, etc.

NE wins without a great back..Dillon long gone from that role. GB wins with Dorsey. Ravens with Lewis. Bucs win with Pittman. Steelers win without great back. Colts as well.

I understand and acknowlege what you are saying. This is a difference in drafting philosophy. Same as others saying don't draft a linemen in the first round.

Funny, but i recall a similar thread around draft time last year.

Agree with everything here except the part about Payton. Payton was still a very good back when the Bears won the Superbowl. He was third in rushing yards and yards from scrimmage that year, and it was the 4th best season of his career in terms of rushing yards.

[superfan]

According to JSonline, Ike prolly coming back as chance to be #1 corner.

I pray that he and beckum return. I'd settle for one of two.

Ike has not been very impressive this year at all, nothing like Scott Starks or Jamar Fletcher when they were at UW. Maybe because of injuries or the overall poor play of the defense, who knows. I think it would be wise for him to stay another year.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Sure, no doubt we could use him. But, can we use him more than another once in a decade CB, QB, etc.

And, with our offense is he the right back or get the use that a traditional running team would?

Good to great RBs are found all the time. History shows you can win the superbowl without having the greatest back. Infact, great backs often don't win the superbowl, Dickerson, OJ, Payton didn't win till he was long gone from being a great back, etc.

NE wins without a great back..Dillon long gone from that role. GB wins with Dorsey. Ravens with Lewis. Bucs win with Pittman. Steelers win without great back. Colts as well.

I understand and acknowlege what you are saying. This is a difference in drafting philosophy. Same as others saying don't draft a linemen in the first round.

Funny, but i recall a similar thread around draft time last year.

Agree with everything here except the part about Payton. Payton was still a very good back when the Bears won the Superbowl. He was third in rushing yards and yards from scrimmage that year, and it was the 4th best season of his career in terms of rushing yards.

Payton: You may be right. My memory is that the ran a lot, therefore a lot of yards. He didn't seem as dynamic. But, that was a long time ago.

We can take him out.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

According to JSonline, Ike prolly coming back as chance to be #1 corner.

I pray that he and beckum return. I'd settle for one of two.

Ike has not been very impressive this year at all, nothing like Scott Starks or Jamar Fletcher when they were at UW. Maybe because of injuries or the overall poor play of the defense, who knows. I think it would be wise for him to stay another year.

Lucky for ike, GMs are desperate for CBs. I read on some site (espn, etc.) that he was still viewed as a first rounder.

If Ahmad is a 1st, then Ike is top ten. :lol:

He was pretty impressive shutting down Manningham!!

[b bulldog]

Ike runs a 4.28 and has size! NFL GM's will covet him.

[Chubbyhubby]

Should the Packers pick a running back in the first round in 2008? If so who would they pick?

[SkinBasket]

Not a terribly big bet since we've only got two decent backs on the roster, Grant and Jackson. Wynn and Morency are easily replaceable.

If Wynn learns how to work out in the off-season, he might have a shot at a back-up spot next year, but I'm not convinced that'll happen given his complaining about being put on IR.

Morency is a place holder until we find someone with more upside to develop and play ST.

You missed Noah "The Franchise" Herron. Like the new Chevy Malibu, you can't miss Noah Herron.

Herron is the Chevy Malibu of running backs.

Where have you been you big slut?

If Herron is even in camp next year, I'm going to puke on my shoes again. If he somehow makes the team, I'm siding with Merlin in regards to Ted.

[superfan]

Where have you been you big slut?

Simply lying in the weeds waiting for you to screw up. Took a while, but inevitably, it happened.

[Deputy Nutz]

The Packers need to take the best player available.

To weigh in on the McFadden Peterson debate, I believe McFadden is a more durable and dependable player, at least at the college ranks than Peterson. McFadden certainly doesn't have the talent surrounding him at Arkansas that Peterson had at Oklahoma. Peterson's production in the NFL speaks for itself, he is an unbelievable talent in the NFL.

[the_idle_threat]

I've never seen McFadden before today, but just watching the youtube vid above, I notice two things:

1) The guy is blazing fast. On several runs, he's through the middle and pulling away from defensive backs in a flash.

2) He's very tall and slightly built for a running back, and runs very upright. I'm surprised that he hasn't been more injury prone given those facts, and the way running backs get hit.

If it's true that he's not as physical as AP, which makes sense given the circumstances, then I'd suspect he's more like a Reggie Bush---a guy who has top talent but will be less successful at the pro level unless the team can open those big holes for him. He's not gonna gain yards on his own.

Of course, this is just from watching a few minutes of tape, so it might be total :bs2: