Justin Harrell-good bad indifferent?

[ZachMN]

How was his play? I'm not expecting big plays but did he at least hold his own?

Just curious from those who watched him or who will analyze the tape a little more.

[Brohm]

He played less than I thought he would. No glaring mistakes but no huge plays either.

He needs to play to get some game experience as well as get in game shape.

[RashanGary]

I thought he played decent. He kept square and didn't get shoved around any easier than Corey Williams.

That said, he doesn't seem to have the pass rush of Corey Williams and he's just as average in the run game as Williams.

With the the little I saw, I'd say he deserves a C- or D+. I'd say he's comparable to Colin Cole right now.


He's a rookie though and I think he would be the #3 or 4 DT on most NFL teams. He doesn't look out of his league, but he has a ways to go before we can say we're happy to spend the #16 on him. Look at the jump Jolly made though. From not seeing the field to legit starter in one year. We have to hope Harrell comes back next year stronger, better conditioned and more experienced in his technique. There is an obvious high cieling based on how he bitch slapped college OG's and OC's, but he's got to make a big step to do that in the NFL.

[The Leaper]

He was OK.

Stop worrying about Harrell. He isn't going to prove anything this year. We have to wait until camp next year to see if he's going to be worth the draft pick.

[RashanGary]

I think he's made really nice progress since his first preseason game. He has a ways to go though. With Harrell, I think it's pretty clear that "nobody knows". I think the soonest we'll be able to judge him is after 4 preseason games next year. If he starts shoving NFL lineman around like he shoved double teams around in college, we'll be extatic and know we have something. If he stays the same, it's time to call him a bad pick. Right now he's doing what rookies do. He's playinig average to below average football; nothing special, but nothing to panic about either.


EDIT: great minds, leaper :) :)

[Bossman641]

Honesly I didn't even notice him out there. He played less than I expected. I thought Pickett and Williams were on the field a TON.

[oregonpackfan]

Like Bossman, I thought Harrell was a non-factor in the Packers' defense.

I remain very unimpressed by him.

[packrat]

Have any of our DL developed in less than two or three years?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Have any of our DL developed in less than two or three years?

Good point. KGB was on the practice squad the first year. Kampman did very little. Williams did nothing. Jenkins and Cole bounced around the league. Jolly, Hunter, and Montgomery barely played. Maybe Pickett, but that was on another team.

[Bretsky]

Have any of our DL developed in less than two or three years?

Good point. KGB was on the practice squad the first year. Kampman did very little. Williams did nothing. Jenkins and Cole bounced around the league. Jolly, Hunter, and Montgomery barely played. Maybe Pickett, but that was on another team.


Pickett was the only first round draft pick and played decent right off the bat
He was inconsistent though; but positively contributed

KGB, Kampman, Jolly and Montgomery all late round picks
Williams a 4th if I recall correctly
Cole and Jenkins and Hunter undrated projects

Am I saying 1st round picks should be good enough to contribute early ?
Hell Yes :lol:

[Carolina_Packer]

Yeah, it's strange how some guys develop faster than others. Talent evaluation is certainly not exact. Look at the Colts. They lose Anthony McFarland and are forced to play an undrafted rookie FA, Ed Johnson from Penn State, and he's doing great. Not saying Harrell won't develop, it just might not be this year.

[Scott Campbell]

Am I saying 1st round picks should be good enough to contribute early ?
Hell Yes :lol:



Steve Young stunk as a rook. So did lots of players in the HOF.

[Bretsky]

Am I saying 1st round picks should be good enough to contribute early ?
Hell Yes :lol:



Steve Young stunk as a rook. So did lots of players in the HOF.

Jamal Reynolds did too :lol:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Have any of our DL developed in less than two or three years?

Good point. KGB was on the practice squad the first year. Kampman did very little. Williams did nothing. Jenkins and Cole bounced around the league. Jolly, Hunter, and Montgomery barely played. Maybe Pickett, but that was on another team.


Pickett was the only first round draft pick and played decent right off the bat
He was inconsistent though; but positively contributed

KGB, Kampman, Jolly and Montgomery all late round picks
Williams a 4th if I recall correctly
Cole and Jenkins and Hunter undrated projects

Am I saying 1st round picks should be good enough to contribute early ?
Hell Yes :lol:

Should first round picks be good enough? Depends on the position.

Historically, linemen and receivers don't.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Have any of our DL developed in less than two or three years?

Good point. KGB was on the practice squad the first year. Kampman did very little. Williams did nothing. Jenkins and Cole bounced around the league. Jolly, Hunter, and Montgomery barely played. Maybe Pickett, but that was on another team.


Pickett was the only first round draft pick and played decent right off the bat
He was inconsistent though; but positively contributed

KGB, Kampman, Jolly and Montgomery all late round picks
Williams a 4th if I recall correctly
Cole and Jenkins and Hunter undrated projects

Am I saying 1st round picks should be good enough to contribute early ?
Hell Yes :lol:

How many of those guys tore their bicep and couldn't practice since September of the year prior? I suspsect none of us watched closely enough to determine how well Harrell played. Considering Dallas didn't run the ball that well, maybe he did his job when he was in there. Maybe not.

[Scott Campbell]

Am I saying 1st round picks should be good enough to contribute early ?
Hell Yes :lol:



Steve Young stunk as a rook. So did lots of players in the HOF.

Jamal Reynolds did too :lol:


Exactly. And you weren't sure on either of them until a couple of years in.

[StPaulPackFan]

I think last night exemplified how unspectacular our D-line is at getting to the QB. Sure, the D-line had 30+ sacks going into last night's game but IMO, many if not most of those sacks were the result of good secondary coverage. Last night the secondary was breaking down in coverage and Romo was consistently able to get the ball away before the pressure got to him. Other than a few pressures by Kampman the D-line was pretty much nuetralized all night.

I think Kampman has turned into a fine player but I wouldn't consider him dominant. What is special about him is his relentless effort. Because of this he will make plays from the backside that most D-ends wouldn't. KGB can be effective as a speed rusher. But again, he is not dominant. Our interior D-line has shown very little ability to bring quick pressure. Most of Corey Williams' sacks have come late in plays after the play has broken down. I was hoping Jenkins would be the pass rusher that would help solidify this defense. Unfortunately, that has not happened.

Bottom line, GB needs Woodson back. He helps lock down the coverage. When he and Harris are playing well it gives our D-line time to get to the QB.

[HarveyWallbangers]

We have a good DL. Coverage and pass rush go hand in hand. Dallas has a good, big OL. Give them credit. It hurts not to have perhaps your best pass rusher and your best coverage guy--not to mention a guy who might be your best all around DT (Williams is a pass rusher, Pickett is a run stuffer, both likely played more than they are used to).

[MJZiggy]

. Last night the secondary was breaking down in coverage and Romo was consistently able to get the ball away before the pressure got to him. Other than a few pressures by Kampman the D-line was pretty much nuetralized all night.



Are you kidding me? Romo had time for tea and crumpets back in the pocket. He was in no hurry whatsoever to get the ball out. The secondary broke down, but even when they held or he had to wait for his receiver to run 40 yards downfield, he had no problem doing it...I guess this is why I won't be complaining about KGB's salary in relation to the number of snaps he plays.

[StPaulPackFan]

We have a good DL. Coverage and pass rush go hand in hand. Dallas has a good, big OL. Give them credit. It hurts not to have perhaps your best pass rusher and your best coverage guy--not to mention a guy who might be your best all around DT (Williams is a pass rusher, Pickett is a run stuffer, both likely played more than they are used to).

I agree, right now they are GOOD, but not great. They are obviously better when they have the full rotation of healthy players. But this is mostly a function of being less fatigued in the latter stages of the game rather than having dominant players. As far as Dallas' O-line, you're right they do deserve a lot of credit for stifling the pass rush. However, I was pleasantly surprised at how GB played the run. I was expecting Barber to have a big game...

I still go back to Jenkins. In the preseason he was a beast. He looked primed to be a disruptive force on the D-line this year. If that had happened this D-line could've been dominant. As it stands right now he is just "a guy" on a good defense.

I think going into this year many felt like I did that GB could have a really special defense. They have fallen short of really special but they are still pretty good. I look forward to getting back Jolly, Woodson, KGB and Rouse. Hopefully they can get back on the winning track against Oakland.

[b bulldog]

My bet is the Harrell pick will never justify a first rounder.

[Bretsky]

Have any of our DL developed in less than two or three years?

Good point. KGB was on the practice squad the first year. Kampman did very little. Williams did nothing. Jenkins and Cole bounced around the league. Jolly, Hunter, and Montgomery barely played. Maybe Pickett, but that was on another team.


Pickett was the only first round draft pick and played decent right off the bat
He was inconsistent though; but positively contributed

KGB, Kampman, Jolly and Montgomery all late round picks
Williams a 4th if I recall correctly
Cole and Jenkins and Hunter undrated projects

Am I saying 1st round picks should be good enough to contribute early ?
Hell Yes :lol:

How many of those guys tore their bicep and couldn't practice since September of the year prior? I suspsect none of us watched closely enough to determine how well Harrell played. Considering Dallas didn't run the ball that well, maybe he did his job when he was in there. Maybe not.

To be honest I rarely noticed he was on the field.

When I took a five minute drive from the bar to home Larry McCarrein sarcastically commented that he noticed Harrell for a play. One of those meaning stingers announcers really should try to avoid.

I'm done with the bicep apologist stuff; TT drafted this guy and indicated he felt he would contribute to this year's squad. The Packer staff knew of the injury fully; they still picked him and expected him to help. Let's at least admit this.

[b bulldog]

Amen B!

[StPaulPackFan]

. Last night the secondary was breaking down in coverage and Romo was consistently able to get the ball away before the pressure got to him. Other than a few pressures by Kampman the D-line was pretty much nuetralized all night.



Are you kidding me? Romo had time for tea and crumpets back in the pocket. He was in no hurry whatsoever to get the ball out. The secondary broke down, but even when they held or he had to wait for his receiver to run 40 yards downfield, he had no problem doing it...I guess this is why I won't be complaining about KGB's salary in relation to the number of snaps he plays.

That is actually the point that I had originally made. IMO, our D-line has been consistently slow getting to the QB, with the occasional exception of Kampman & KGB. Much of the D-line's pressure comes after the receiver's have been taken out of the play and the QB has run out of options.

[b bulldog]

wOULDN'T A CERTAIN s FROM uf DRAFTED AFTER hARRELL look better in the frren and gold than Harrell does? My typing :x

[HarveyWallbangers]

You're talking about Reggie Nelson. Doom and gloom from bulldog after the second loss of the season. How many rookie DL are kicking ass? Why is so hard to have the same patience with Harrell as you do with Mario? Mario was the #1 pick and didn't have an injury, but we are supposed to give Mario all kinds of time to develop, but we write Harrell off his rookie year?

[KYPack]

Yeah, I think you are wrong Dog.

Harrell always shows some flashes in his play. He's got strong hips and keeps his man at bay most of the time. I definitely think this kid will be an effective NFL player.

Worth a number 1?

Shudda drafted this other guy first?

Those are separate arguments. Harrell will play for us, at least in a roatation. Who knows, with a few seasons under his belt, he may be a star.

Those that say he's a bust ain't watch' him.

[Bretsky]

You're talking about Reggie Nelson. Doom and gloom from bulldog after the second loss of the season. How many rookie DL are kicking ass? Why is so hard to have the same patience with Harrell as you do with Mario? Mario was the #1 pick and didn't have an injury, but we are supposed to give Mario all kinds of time to develop, but we write Harrell off his rookie year?

I'm consistent

Mario sucks too :lol:

[b bulldog]

I've said Mario has been a disappointment, look it up......please. mario for one thing didn't report to camp too fat :lol: and he didn't have trouble finishing the basic Dline drills :lol:

[b bulldog]

Harv, doom and gloom :lol: I thought they would lose by 10 and I thought once Harrell was drafted and reported overweight as a rookie, he was a waste.

[KYPack]

Mario Williams got his ass kicked in his rookie year.

Because he was a ROOKIE. He made mistakes and didn't know the NFL game. His second year has been night and day compared to his first.

Harrell made the mistakes you name. He won't make 'em in his second season. Harrell has talent and will justify the pick. I won't play "I told ya so" games, but I bet I could.

[Lurker64]

I can't remember a rookie DT ever really having a big season, and I remember that most first round DTs disappoint early in their careers only to eventually "get it" and become significant contributors. Can anybody name a DT drafted around 16 in the modern era that really made a notable contribution in his rookie season?

Harrell was a "two or three years from now" pick, not a "right now pick" regardless of what Thompson says. If you're drafting a DT thinking that he'll make significant impact right away, you're probably expecting incredibly awful defensive line play otherwise.

[KYPack]

I can't remember a rookie DT ever really having a big season, and I remember that most first round DTs disappoint early in their careers only to eventually "get it" and become significant contributors. Can anybody name a DT drafted around 16 in the modern era that really made a notable contribution in his rookie season?

Harrell was a "two or three years from now" pick, not a "right now pick" regardless of what Thompson says. If you're drafting a DT thinking that he'll make significant impact right away, you're probably expecting incredibly awful defensive line play otherwise.

Jerome Brown and Warren Sapp. Can't say I know their draft postitions, tho, Joe.

Shaun Rogers wasn't bad his first year for the Lions, he blew my mind in a Pre game his rookie year. Lot of poise for a kid. But generally yer right, it's a tough go for most rooks down in the "maw".

[HarveyWallbangers]

Harrell impresses

Nunn said a bright spot for the line was the play of first-round draft pick Justin Harrell, who was active for the first time since Oct. 14 and played close to 20 snaps, his most extended action in three games this season.

“He didn’t get washed around in there,” Nunn said. “A couple times, held double teams and then come off and separate and make plays, made a tackle and assist, and was running to the ball. He’s got something to build on, and we’re going to. He’s going to get more reps.”

[Carolina_Packer]

I can't remember a rookie DT ever really having a big season, and I remember that most first round DTs disappoint early in their careers only to eventually "get it" and become significant contributors. Can anybody name a DT drafted around 16 in the modern era that really made a notable contribution in his rookie season?

Harrell was a "two or three years from now" pick, not a "right now pick" regardless of what Thompson says. If you're drafting a DT thinking that he'll make significant impact right away, you're probably expecting incredibly awful defensive line play otherwise.

Jerome Brown and Warren Sapp. Can't say I know their draft postitions, tho, Joe.

Shaun Rogers wasn't bad his first year for the Lions, he blew my mind in a Pre game his rookie year. Lot of poise for a kid. But generally yer right, it's a tough go for most rooks down in the "maw".

I'm not ranking this kid with your names, just noting that someone that wasn't even drafted is starting for the Colts at DT (for Booger McFarland) and is playing well. http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=bio&player_id=471 I would guess this is even more unusual than drafting a guy and expecting something in his first year. Penn St. isn't a slouch, but where did this kid come from to not just be a placeholder, but to be productive?

[Bretsky]

I can't remember a rookie DT ever really having a big season, and I remember that most first round DTs disappoint early in their careers only to eventually "get it" and become significant contributors. Can anybody name a DT drafted around 16 in the modern era that really made a notable contribution in his rookie season?

Harrell was a "two or three years from now" pick, not a "right now pick" regardless of what Thompson says. If you're drafting a DT thinking that he'll make significant impact right away, you're probably expecting incredibly awful defensive line play otherwise.

Not sure how you define big season, but as rookies off top of head I can think of Marcus Stroud, John Henderson, and Haynesworth looking solid.

Nobody is asking Harrell to make a "significant" impact. But any impace would be pretty dam cool.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Haynesworth was a disappointment until about his 4th year in the league in 2005. He was good in his 4th and 5th (when he wasn't suspended) in 2005-2006. He's taken it to another level this year. A lot of people thought he was a bust--even in his 3rd year.

Henderson was a beast from the start. Stroud was solid. Of course, they were drafted even higher than Harrell--and they weren't coming off an injury. Why is it so hard to give the rookie a chance? A majority of the rookies aren't even starting, and not many from last year have come close to becoming stars yet.

I think this might be one of those that people will look foolish now in 3 years for being so hard on him. (Like those that were dogging Jennings this preseason.) I like big, athletic DTs that have high character. That's the book on Harrell (team captain, got Reggie's #92, played with the torn biceps vs. Florida) and I have a feeling he's the type that will make himself into a good player.

[esoxx]

I can't remember a rookie DT ever really having a big season, and I remember that most first round DTs disappoint early in their careers only to eventually "get it" and become significant contributors. Can anybody name a DT drafted around 16 in the modern era that really made a notable contribution in his rookie season?



Tommie Harris - drafted 14th in 1st round.

[Partial]

Haynesworth was a disappointment until about his 4th year in the league in 2005. He was good in his 4th and 5th (when he wasn't suspended) in 2005-2006. He's taken it to another level this year. A lot of people thought he was a bust--even in his 3rd year.

Henderson was a beast from the start. Stroud was solid. Of course, they were drafted even higher than Harrell--and they weren't coming off an injury. Why is it so hard to give the rookie a chance? A majority of the rookies aren't even starting, and not many from last year have come close to becoming stars yet.

I think this might be one of those that people will look foolish now in 3 years for being so hard on him. (Like those that were dogging Jennings this preseason.) I like big, athletic DTs that have high character. That's the book on Harrell (team captain, got Reggie's #92, played with the torn biceps vs. Florida) and I have a feeling he's the type that will make himself into a good player.

Glad you're always around to be the voice of reason. When looking at Henderson, keep in mind he had a pro-bowler next to give him single teams. Also, he was a giant of a man. Much taller and longer than Harrell.

Haynesworth was labeled as a bust in the same phrase as Ryan Sims until last year imo. Now he is getting MVP consideration. Sometimes it just takes guys awhile to get it together.

[RashanGary]

(Like those that were dogging Jennings this preseason.)

bulldog was the only one I remember really dogging Jennings. He threw out the "china doll" term every 3 posts for about a month. Every time someone talked about an injury, he threw in the "Jennings is a china doll" even when it had nothing to do with Jennings. Maybe his constant pounding of that point made it seem as if there was a big anti-Jennings crowd, but I didn't think that was the case at all.

There were a bunch of people who were worried because Jennings was knicked up for msot of last year and then all of TC. I was in that group that worried we would not have Jennings (our biggest offensive playmaker), for the beginning of the season. Are you comparing the mass concern of Jennings injuries to the mass concern that Harrell sucks. I really hope not because it's a very different concern and one that was backed by a growing pattern of injuries. This is backed by Harrell not being a stud as a rookie. It's very shallow (when looked at in the context of recent history) and very different. Also, the Jennings thing was brought up a couple times as a slight concern and this is brought up every week as a big concern and a bust before anything is even shown. The situations are very different to me, and since i was one of teh guys who worried that we weren't going to have Jennings 100%, I take offense you you comparting the stupid qualities of these people to the stupid qualities of the Jennings "doggers" when in fact most Jennings doggers were not doggers at all.

[Bretsky]

(Like those that were dogging Jennings this preseason.)

bulldog was the only one I remember really dogging Jennings. He threw out the "china doll" term every 3 posts for about a month. Every time someone talked about an injury, he threw in the "Jennings is a china doll" even when it had nothing to do with Jennings. Maybe his constant pounding of that point made it seem as if there was a big anti-Jennings crowd, but I didn't think that was the case at all.

There were a bunch of people who were worried because Jennings was knicked up for msot of last year and then all of TC. I was in that group that worried we would not have Jennings (our biggest offensive playmaker), for the beginning of the season. Are you comparing the mass concern of Jennings injuries to the mass concern that Harrell sucks. I really hope not because it's a very different concern and one that was backed by a growing pattern of injuries. This is backed by Harrell not being a stud as a rookie. It's very shallow (when looked at in the context of recent history) and very different. Also, the Jennings thing was brought up a couple times as a slight concern and this is brought up every week as a big concern and a bust before anything is even shown. The situations are very different to me, and since i was one of teh guys who worried that we weren't going to have Jennings 100%, I take offense you you comparting the stupid qualities of these people to the stupid qualities of the Jennings "doggers" when in fact most Jennings doggers were not doggers at all.

good rant

[oregonpackfan]

Justin Harrell is a bust--plain and simple. Despite all the smokescreens the Harell apologists claim, he is a #1 draft choice failure and will continue to be through his sophomore season.

Yes, feel free to quote me. By the end of training camp for his third season, Justin Harrell will be cut.

[Lurker64]

Justin Harrell is a bust--plain and simple. Despite all the smokescreens the Harell apologists claim, he is a #1 draft choice failure and will continue to be through his sophomore season.

Yes, feel free to quote me. By the end of training camp for his third season, Justin Harrell will be cut.

I'm impressed that you can see the future. Have any stock tips?

[RashanGary]

Justin Harrell is a bust--plain and simple. Despite all the smokescreens the Harell apologists claim, he is a #1 draft choice failure and will continue to be through his sophomore season.

Yes, feel free to quote me. By the end of training camp for his third season, Justin Harrell will be cut.


Harrell impresses

Nunn said a bright spot for the line was the play of first-round draft pick Justin Harrell, who was active for the first time since Oct. 14 and played close to 20 snaps, his most extended action in three games this season.

“He didn’t get washed around in there,” Nunn said. “A couple times, held double teams and then come off and separate and make plays, made a tackle and assist, and was running to the ball. He’s got something to build on, and we’re going to. He’s going to get more reps.”


Everyone here said he held his own after the game as far as not getting pushed around. Corey Williams was acctually shoved around at will for the whole game. He played a good game, even better in the run aspect than a guy everyone is in love with here. Not only did he play well, but he's only a rookie. Then Robert Nunn comes out and says the same thing we all saw, the guy held his own. He did his job. I just don't see why you make this claim, esspecially now.

DLineman who depend on that quick burst to the QB seem to do well early. Burst is a young mans trait. Lineman that depend on stregth tend to get better with time. Harrell is one of those guys that depends on stregth. Take away his first two preseason games and he's acctually played solid with every chance he's gotten (and that's understandable considering his conditioning). There is a lot of reason to believe he'll grow on his already decent performances. There is very little reason to think he'll get worse or stay the same considering his age and experience.

Him not getting PT over Pickett, Jolly, Williams and Cole in their primes is not really evidence that he sucks. It's evidence that we had some good players developed in front of him. I really don't understand the rush to judgment. Why not just let it develop. Harrell was a dominate college player. Give him a chance to adjust to the NFL and grow into his rare big body.

[cheesner]

Justin Harrell is a bust--plain and simple. Despite all the smokescreens the Harell apologists claim, he is a #1 draft choice failure and will continue to be through his sophomore season.

Yes, feel free to quote me. By the end of training camp for his third season, Justin Harrell will be cut.
Feel free to quote you? Okay. I won't limit myself to your comments above. Here is a nice prophetic quote:


. . . .

When the Packers let go of Antonio Chatman and Andrae Thurman they said they wanted to go with the "Bigger and stronger" prototype of receivers who had the build of a Terrell Owens.

Immediately, I thought to myself, "Well that shoots down the possiblity of the Packers choosing WR Mike Hass of Oregon State. He is only 6' 1" tall, and 208 lbs."

For his many receiving accomplishments this past year, Hass won the Biletnikoff Award as the best receiver in college football.

Then what do the Packers do instead of drafting Hass and a "Bigger and stronger" WR? They draft 5'11" Greg Jennings out of Western Michegan in the third round and 6'0" Cory Rodgers from TCU in the fourth round! They could have had Hass.

The New Orleans Saints took him in the 6th round.

Despite his fine hands, his record achievements, the Packers ignorned Hass because his best 40 yard recorded speed is 4.55 seconds. Hass did record the fifth fastest time in the 20 yard shuffle--which measures explosiveness off the snap and lateral movement.

A lot of pro teams several years from now(including the Packers) are going to be scratching their heads saying, "Why didn't we take this guy when we had the chance?"

Oregonpackfan

Hass was cut. Now with the bears. Career stats?

Mike Hass: 0 rec 0 yds 0 tds
Jennnings : 89 rec 1,344 yds 13 tds


http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=909&highlight=jennings]

[oregonpackfan]

Yep, ok, I was mistaken about Mike Hass. He is still on the Bears' roster as far as I know. Mistakes about successful college players about potential NFL careers are made by many people

Let's talk about another couple of young "Big Bodies" who needed to grow and develop into successful NFL careers.

The Packers made their number one pick a few years ago in Jamaal Reynolds. He is another promising young college player who flopped in the NFL. The Packers hung onto him for at least two years before finally admitting their mistake.

A few years ago, the Packers made a fifth round choice in James Lee, a defensive lineman for Oregon State. If you read the records on my views on him, I was shocked at the selection as well as Oregon State coaches, fans, ans sportswriters! The guy did not even start his senior year in a conference(Pac-10) not known for defense. Had the Packers not drafted him, he likely would have gone undrafted

Lee showed up for training camp out of shape. He was injured the very first day of camp, and sat out the year on IR. The Packers brought him back for another year using the philosophy of his needing to "Grow into his gifted big body." Realizing Lee was a bust in his second year, he was cut.

Move the page ahead to Justin Harrell. Like Lee, he showed up at camp out of shape. Not making the effort and commitment to even be in shape, sends up a huge "Red Flag" for me. Yes, he did have the biceps injury. But he could have done many other alternative forms of exercise to work himself into condition.

If Harrell turns out to have a successful career with the Packers, I will be more than happy to admit my mistake on him. Based on his lack of preparedness in becoming a pro and the lack of play on the field, I for now, do not feel he will make it in the NFL.

[ZachMN]

Well I guess I have a feel for not only how he played but how the board feels about him as well. I am supposedly going to get a tape of the game and will be able to watch him closely. I am optimistic about his upside and am not as bothered by his lack of big plays. DT is a position that takes a lot of skill as well as strength and like some of the bothers have pointed out most of our guys have gotten better with more experience.

Oregon I'm gonna hold you to that date of his geting cut too!! LOL I'm just busting balls now LOL love the attitude and that someone called you out on a past prediction was classic!!!

[RashanGary]

If Harrell turns out to have a successful career with the Packers, I will be more than happy to admit my mistake on him. Based on his lack of preparedness in becoming a pro and the lack of play on the field, I for now, do not feel he will make it in the NFL.

Hahaha, you have no clue how prepared he was. Pickett and Jolly didn't pass the conditioning tests either, does that mean they won't make it?

He's a very big man. Maybe he wasn't training the right way, but he wasn't fat and completely out of shape like you suggest. Harrell was regarded as the ulitmate team player at Tennessee. They gave him Reggie's number for the first time since Reggie left and now that Reggie passed it will be the last time. They claim he honored it with the way he practiced, played and lead his team. The Packers have a high ranking official (Reggie McKenzie) who is very close with the Tennessee program. There are absolutely no red flags about his effort and determination. You are just connecting dots that you think make sense, but by I think are premature, and that is being kind.

As far as his lack of play, he's behind a bunch of good NFL players who are in thier primes (Jolly is just entering his). If Harrell came in as a rookie and outplayed these guys, it would be down right shocking. They are all good NFL players in the best years of their careers. Harrell is just getting started.

The only think Harrell and Reynolds have in common is that they were drafted by the Packers to play DL. Harrell is doing a good job. He's just not seeing the field as much because we had a bunch of good guys already on the roster and his effect doesn't show up as much in the stat line. Pickett never has a big stat line but he plays well. Harrell is the same way. He's good run stopper now with potential to be a distruptive force.

[cheesner]

. . .

Lee showed up for training camp out of shape. He was injured the very first day of camp, and sat out the year on IR. The Packers brought him back for another year using the philosophy of his needing to "Grow into his gifted big body." Realizing Lee was a bust in his second year, he was cut.

Move the page ahead to Justin Harrell. Like Lee, he showed up at camp out of shape. Not making the effort and commitment to even be in shape, sends up a huge "Red Flag" for me. Yes, he did have the biceps injury. But he could have done many other alternative forms of exercise to work himself into condition.
. . .
I think everyone was a bit surprised by the pick of Lee. To compare him to Harrell is ridiculous. As you say, Lee couldn't even start for the Beavers, while Harrell was a fantastic impact player for a major university. You have given up, way to early on a potential difference maker.

[oregonpackfan]

As far as the differing viewpoints on the future of Harrell's success goes, I guess the adage of "Time will tell..." has to apply.

Let us see what his impact on the team will be by the end of his second season.

[Freak Out]

One thing I can say for sure...Harrell was huffing the salts big time right before kick off. Standing right behind M3 just going at it. I've never figured out why some players do it (I've seen Favre do it as well) and others never touch the stuff.

[Bretsky]

Justin Harrell is a bust--plain and simple. Despite all the smokescreens the Harell apologists claim, he is a #1 draft choice failure and will continue to be through his sophomore season.

Yes, feel free to quote me. By the end of training camp for his third season, Justin Harrell will be cut.

Hey Rumor had it you were the politically correct one :!:

[Bretsky]

Justin Harrell is a bust--plain and simple. Despite all the smokescreens the Harell apologists claim, he is a #1 draft choice failure and will continue to be through his sophomore season.

Yes, feel free to quote me. By the end of training camp for his third season, Justin Harrell will be cut.


Harrell impresses

Nunn said a bright spot for the line was the play of first-round draft pick Justin Harrell, who was active for the first time since Oct. 14 and played close to 20 snaps, his most extended action in three games this season.

“He didn’t get washed around in there,” Nunn said. “A couple times, held double teams and then come off and separate and make plays, made a tackle and assist, and was running to the ball. He’s got something to build on, and we’re going to. He’s going to get more reps.”


Everyone here said he held his own after the game as far as not getting pushed around. Corey Williams was acctually shoved around at will for the whole game. He played a good game, even better in the run aspect than a guy everyone is in love with here. Not only did he play well, but he's only a rookie. Then Robert Nunn comes out and says the same thing we all saw, the guy held his own. He did his job. I just don't see why you make this claim, esspecially now.

DLineman who depend on that quick burst to the QB seem to do well early. Burst is a young mans trait. Lineman that depend on stregth tend to get better with time. Harrell is one of those guys that depends on stregth. Take away his first two preseason games and he's acctually played solid with every chance he's gotten (and that's understandable considering his conditioning). There is a lot of reason to believe he'll grow on his already decent performances. There is very little reason to think he'll get worse or stay the same considering his age and experience.

Him not getting PT over Pickett, Jolly, Williams and Cole in their primes is not really evidence that he sucks. It's evidence that we had some good players developed in front of him. I really don't understand the rush to judgment. Why not just let it develop. Harrell was a dominate college player. Give him a chance to adjust to the NFL and grow into his rare big body.

I don't think he played well. McCarrein certainly wasnt' impressed. I didn't tape the game so that was my see it once perception. He was invisible. Besides Pickett there wasn't a lot of good defensive play. Hawk played decent I think.

Nunn, he's just pumping the guy up for the furture. Good coaches do that all the time.

I hope he turns out OK; but as for this year I look forward to getting the starters back so he learns in street clothes

[RashanGary]

He belonged out there. He didn't dominate by any stretch and his pass rush was non existant, but he held his own in the run game. He never got shoved out the way Williams did.

I'd rather have Jolly back too. Jolly, Pickett and Williams are a pretty good threesome. I still think we'll see Harrell in stretches because with Cole gone, someone has to take those 10-15 snaps per game. For now, I'd acctually rather see Harrell start over Williams because Williams is really valuable in his pass rush role and he's not very valuable as a starter because he can't stop the run. It was hard for teams to convert 3rd and 6 or longer becuase they had to get rid of the ball so quickly with KGB and Kamp coming of the edge and Williams coming up the middle. Let's just get back to that. It worked.

[KYPack]

OPF, yer a good poster & all, but you are sucking canal water on this prediction.

Harrell draws a lot of criticism because other would've liked to see others picked instead of him.

So what. Does anybody watch him play?

He's a kid, but a good kid. He might bomb because he gets injured, but he can play. He always gets good push and has great instincts. he didn't show up in shape and had no clue what it takes to be an NFL DLineman, but the kid has talent and will help the team. He won't be cut in '09, barring injury.

[oregonpackfan]

OPF, yer a good poster & all, but you are sucking canal water on this prediction.

Harrell draws a lot of criticism because other would've liked to see others picked instead of him.

So what. Does anybody watch him play?

He's a kid, but a good kid. He might bomb because he gets injured, but he can play. He always gets good push and has great instincts. he didn't show up in shape and had no clue what it takes to be an NFL DLineman, but the kid has talent and will help the team. He won't be cut in '09, barring injury.

KY,

Please let me emphasize I don't have anything personally against this Harrell. From what I have read about him, he seems like a fine young man.
He will probably be successful in whatever endeavor he chooses after his NFL career--be it one year from now or ten years from now.

My main beef is that he is a #1 draft choice who has made minimal contributions to this team. Thus far, his skills are so marginal, he has been placed on the inactive list a number of times this season.

Though the Packers do have solid talent on the D-line ahead of him, they are not outstanding. A rookie D-lineman, worthy of a #1 draft pick, should be making more of a difference with the team than he is now.

[Bretsky]

Justin Harrell is a bust--plain and simple. Despite all the smokescreens the Harell apologists claim, he is a #1 draft choice failure and will continue to be through his sophomore season.

Yes, feel free to quote me. By the end of training camp for his third season, Justin Harrell will be cut.
Feel free to quote you? Okay. I won't limit myself to your comments above. Here is a nice prophetic quote:


. . . .

When the Packers let go of Antonio Chatman and Andrae Thurman they said they wanted to go with the "Bigger and stronger" prototype of receivers who had the build of a Terrell Owens.

Immediately, I thought to myself, "Well that shoots down the possiblity of the Packers choosing WR Mike Hass of Oregon State. He is only 6' 1" tall, and 208 lbs."

For his many receiving accomplishments this past year, Hass won the Biletnikoff Award as the best receiver in college football.

Then what do the Packers do instead of drafting Hass and a "Bigger and stronger" WR? They draft 5'11" Greg Jennings out of Western Michegan in the third round and 6'0" Cory Rodgers from TCU in the fourth round! They could have had Hass.

The New Orleans Saints took him in the 6th round.

Despite his fine hands, his record achievements, the Packers ignorned Hass because his best 40 yard recorded speed is 4.55 seconds. Hass did record the fifth fastest time in the 20 yard shuffle--which measures explosiveness off the snap and lateral movement.

A lot of pro teams several years from now(including the Packers) are going to be scratching their heads saying, "Why didn't we take this guy when we had the chance?"

Oregonpackfan

Hass was cut. Now with the bears. Career stats?

Mike Hass: 0 rec 0 yds 0 tds
Jennnings : 89 rec 1,344 yds 13 tds


http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=909&highlight=jennings]


I commend OPF for voicing an opinion. May not be a popular one, and he may be 100% on or 100% off but that's what forums are for.

OPF thinking Haas was going to be better than he is has absolutely nothing to do with his view of JH. Pretty apparent he was giving anybody the opportunity to quote him about Harrell down the road; not Mike Haas

Those who voice their views will be right or wrong a lot more than those that don't; nothing wrong with doing the mojo either way.

[Bretsky]

If Harrell turns out to have a successful career with the Packers, I will be more than happy to admit my mistake on him. Based on his lack of preparedness in becoming a pro and the lack of play on the field, I for now, do not feel he will make it in the NFL.

Hahaha, you have no clue how prepared he was. Pickett and Jolly didn't pass the conditioning tests either, does that mean they won't make it?

He's a very big man. Maybe he wasn't training the right way, but he wasn't fat and completely out of shape like you suggest. Harrell was regarded as the ulitmate team player at Tennessee. They gave him Reggie's number for the first time since Reggie left and now that Reggie passed it will be the last time. They claim he honored it with the way he practiced, played and lead his team. The Packers have a high ranking official (Reggie McKenzie) who is very close with the Tennessee program. There are absolutely no red flags about his effort and determination. You are just connecting dots that you think make sense, but by I think are premature, and that is being kind.

As far as his lack of play, he's behind a bunch of good NFL players who are in thier primes (Jolly is just entering his). If Harrell came in as a rookie and outplayed these guys, it would be down right shocking. They are all good NFL players in the best years of their careers. Harrell is just getting started.

The only think Harrell and Reynolds have in common is that they were drafted by the Packers to play DL. Harrell is doing a good job. He's just not seeing the field as much because we had a bunch of good guys already on the roster and his effect doesn't show up as much in the stat line. Pickett never has a big stat line but he plays well. Harrell is the same way. He's good run stopper now with potential to be a distruptive force.


It's alright to shift the focus about his current impact......and I agree that he might not be expected to outplay key starters right away

HOWEVER

Can I assume you did expect him to outplay Colin Cole and be on the field before a guy most regard as a end of the roster or last DL player :?:

[Bretsky]

OPF, yer a good poster & all, but you are sucking canal water on this prediction.

Harrell draws a lot of criticism because other would've liked to see others picked instead of him.

So what. Does anybody watch him play?

He's a kid, but a good kid. He might bomb because he gets injured, but he can play. He always gets good push and has great instincts. he didn't show up in shape and had no clue what it takes to be an NFL DLineman, but the kid has talent and will help the team. He won't be cut in '09, barring injury.


I agree that he won't be cut by 2009.