Why they lost

[RashanGary]

1. The Dline did not get any pass rush. The Packers relied on 4 like they usually and the front four just did not do their job. Romo sat back, waiting for is WR's to break into the 2nd and 3rd windows in the zone and he just picked us apart. The secondary got beat, but the blame has to go to the front four, first and foremost for not getting any pressure on Romo. With that kind of pass rush, the Cowoboys would pick any secondary apart. It was just way too easy for the Cowboys to do whatever they watnted.

2. The kick coverage was abysmal. Every time they kicked, Dallas was starting at the 35-40 yard line. You just can't give Dallas that kind of edge in the field position game and expect to get out unscathed.

3. Favre and McCarthy seemed to have it in their heads to go deep. It didn't work from the onset, but the Packers kept at it, ruining drives, tossing picks and deflating the whole team. Rodgers came in, calmed the team and did what GB does best but it was too litte, to late to overcome the mistakes that had already happened and the poor defense that continued through the whole game.



The bright side is that much of this can be fixed. MM and Favre can go back to taking what is given and only taking shots only when the defense gives it. I think it's a different defense with Jolly, KGB and Woodson, so that can be fixed with a little health. The ST's has been really good all year. Hopefully they get that cleaned up. They are the biggest concern, because there is no real reason for it. They just got beat, badly.

[Ballboy]

The special teams just kills me.

I'm sure I just don't get it, but answer me why a team wouldn't kick the ball in the endzone everytime? This kid can kick a 56 yard FG but can't kick the ball 70+ yards with a running start?

You kick it into the endzone, they other team gets it at the 20. You have less chance of getting a big return, less chance of any of your players getting injured, and finally your players remain fresh from not having to run up and down the field after guys.


What do I konw anyway?

[LL2]

The special teams sucked and so did Harris. The others in the secondary were not any better, but TO really to it to Harris. We need Woodson back and he makes Harris better. These two are getting older so I hope the younger guys can develop into good corners.

I also think Harris had full posession of that ball in bounds when he stripped it from TO. It might have been to close for the refs to overturn.

[Deputy Nutz]

Special teams was terrible other than the kickers. The Packers coverage on kickoffs was poor, and their return game was poor as well. If the guys on special teams are putting forth that kind of effort I really have to question how fired up the team was to play this game.

Another reason the Packers lost was the fact that this secondary can't operate effectively without Woodson. Bush is an ok nickel back but he is not a starter, this team has two good corners and then a bunch of nonstarters at this point. The Packers front office is goigng to have to do a better job finding depth in the secondary in 2008. Bigby is a young player, but his mental mistakes and then his knack for committing game changing penalties is a killer. No need for either one of those personal fouls on face masks.

Favre seemed to blow his wad again in the first quarter during a big game on the road, he seemed to get too hyped up and forget things like reading the defense,finding the open route, finding the receiver that had single coverage, finding the blitz before the snap of the ball. Favre has issues when pressure is coming up the middle on him before he has time to set his feet, common for most QBs, but Favre feels he has to force the ball and get it out quick.

[Carolina_Packer]

Favre seemed to blow his wad again in the first quarter during a big game on the road, he seemed to get too hyped up and forget things like reading the defense,finding the open route, finding the receiver that had single coverage, finding the blitz before the snap of the ball. Favre has issues when pressure is coming up the middle on him before he has time to set his feet, common for most QBs, but Favre feels he has to force the ball and get it out quick.

Good job on Dallas' part to get pressure consistently. I think both interceptions were ill-advised throws. Just because you can start your throwing motion and get most of the way through it, doesn't mean you will end up getting much on your throw if a defender is bearing down. The downside to his ultra-competetive, I can make any throw nature is that sometimes he takes risks that end up with costly mistakes. But, if he didn't have those big stones, he wouldn't be as great as he is. You have to take the good/great, which there is much more of, with the occasional bad. I was also surprised by their caution to the wind attitude about hitting a big one last night. What is it that got you to this point? Carving up defenses, not a vertical passing game. I think the precision, short passing game and enough of a running game sets up the vertical shots, depending on whether the DB's are playing inside or outside leverage. I'm not sure what that strategy was all about in the biggest game of the year, but that easily was the margin of victory for Dallas because we did score enough to beat most teams. Our best defense last night was to be a ball control (running or passing) offense and eat up the clock, and keep our defense off the field. That did happen a couple of times when Rodgers led them on drives, but then you kind of thought, "Oh crap, here comes the defense back on the field" We could have won the shootout if we had just played ball control from the outset, treating each possession as if it were our last.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'd agree with JH.

1) Favre (and possibly McCarthy with game-planning) had a bad start to the game.
2) No pass rush.
3) Special teams were horrible.
4) Injuries.

We can beat them if we get a chance to play them, but we'll have to play very well. Favre has to stay controlled. McCarthy has to stick with what got them here. Pass rush has to be better. Hopefully, KGB will help. Chuck has to be healthy. Special teams (which went into last week's game in the top 3 in kickoff and punt coverage) has to play better.

[RashanGary]

Nuts,

The Packers have counted on their deep, talented Dline to get pressure all year and for the most part, they have stepped up. Down to only 4 good lineman and missing some of their biggest punch in the run game and pass game, it was just a whole different animal.

I blame the secondary (on a lesser level like the refs), but more than that I think it was the Dlines poor play that trickled through the whole defense.

[RIPackerFan]

I think this was the case where our D-Coordinators played conservatively and got burnt.

Knowing that KGB, Jolly and some of our DT depth was out, they probably realized that they could not get pressure with the front four.

They had a choice to either blitz or play more zone coverage. Probably due to the injury to Woodson and the fear of the big play, they decided to play zone, hoping that our D-line would eventually get to Romo.

This played into Dallas' playbook. Romo wasn't pressured at all and had all day to pick apart the zone.

As an option, the D-Coordinators could have blitzed as much as the Cowboys did and took a chance playing man with our backups - but they decided not to.

Hindsight is 50/50, but I don't see how they expected to cover the Dallas threats in a zone, when they knew full well they weren't going to get pressure on Romo.

It was disappointing to see Kampman applying pressure and Romo just moving to the side where KGB usually is caving in the pocket.

[Fosco33]

I can't believe we blame Favre as much as we are.... there were a number of drops and fluke plays that turned the wrong way.

The play calling should be to blame - when ARod played in the system that got them 10 wins - we were successful. When the receivers caught the ball and got extra yards - we were successful. When the Oline began to give the QB some protection - we were successful.

Without Woodson - the Pack didn't play a lot of man-man which allowed Romo to pick apart the zones and find the mismatches (Hawk/Bigby on TO.... come on). Injuries are part of the game - losing one guy shouldn't force you to change your entire D plan (especially as it was a game time decision).

Kickoff coverage was terrible - and the momentum swing plays were the real killer (onside kick, non-fumble, PI calls, 3rd&19 plus a PF, etc, etc...).

Simple fact - the team (coaches/players) didn't do enough to beat a very good team at home. Time to put this one to bed and focus on the next game.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm glad we got to play them. Maybe we'll learn what schemes don't work. Basically, they kind of went away from what they do best on offense early and on defense much of the game. On offense, go with what got you here. On defense, stay with man-to-man. I'd put Woodson on Owens. He seems to do better when he doesn't get a bump at the line. Harris is nowhere near as affective when he can't press a guy at the line. Also, they have to blitz a little bit early to make a QB feel like he has to get the ball out quick.

[RashanGary]

Bedard said it pretty well in his chat. Favre has multiple options on every play and the ability to chance plays at the line. Favre decided to take the shots and they were poor ones.

Rodgers came in and MM said he did not change his game plan at all. The decisions might have been different, but the plays were the same. If you noticed, Rodgers did take one deep shot, but his wasn't into triple coverage, he threw it to Jennings and Jennings had half a step and the safety was out of position to help. It was a good decision, just a little over thrown.

Favre on the other hadn threw into triple coverage over and over. I was partly blaming MM, but listening to Bedard, I agree with him. Favre just made really bad decisions. On the flea flicker, he had Jennings wide open. Favre just decided to let it rip into triple coverage. That's all Favre's fault.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Justin,

I pretty much agree. A couple of questions to consider:

1) When the d-line is healthy (assuming it will be), can the Packers beat the Cowgirls next time relying only on their front four for pressure? I think not. They need to blitz even when healthy against the Cowgirls.

2) What happened to Crosby's vaunted leg strength? If you can't kick it 7 yards deep in the end zone at Dallas stadium, you can't do it anywhere. On one kickoff they directionally kicked to the right sideline and Austin still ran it back to the 40. Why not just kick it as deep as Crosby supposedly can?

3) Listen to Greg Jennings' post game interview on Packers.com. A reporter asked him directly if the game plan was to get away from the dink and dunk and go deep, especially in the 1st quarter. Jennings said "no, it was Favre seeing guys downfield that he decided he could hit." In McCarthy's post game press conference he was kind of vague in his response to the same question but he implied (I think) that the downfield tosses were Favre's decisions and it sort of sounded like he thought a few of them were ill-advised throws. I'm just wondering if this is the same ole story of Favre in Dallas trying to make too much happen too quickly. If not, then McCarthy should take the blame. This needs to be sorted out before any rematch in the playoffs.

4) The flea flicker and the trick on-side kick were cute ideas, but I don't believe the Packers needed "cute" to win. They just needed to play the offense that got them here: the west coast dink and dunk. They got greedy and they got burned.

[RashanGary]

Maxie, I think with KGB and Jolly that the Packers will be better equipped to handle the Cowboys with just the front 4. The Cowboys are good though, they might need to mix it up and be a little less predictable.


I agree with your view on Crosby. His leg strength is overrated. I always thought Rayner did a better job on kickoffs.


As far as your quote of Jennings, I just listened to Bedard and changed my opinion. That was all Favre. He just did what he does in big games; choked.

[packers11]

yea some of the blame goes to Favre BUTTTTTT the o-line did no favors... He had no time, it was the worse i've seen it all year...

I know the packers have struggled against the 3-4 in the past couple of years, but once they held SD Defensive blitzes in check, I thought they turned a corner... Guess not, the packers need to practice more against the 3-4...

[Fosco33]

Bedard said it pretty well in his chat. Favre has multiple options on every play and the ability to chance plays at the line. Favre decided to take the shots and they were poor ones.

Rodgers came in and MM said he did not change his game plan at all. The decisions might have been different, but the plays were the same. If you noticed, Rodgers did take one deep shot, but his wasn't into triple coverage, he threw it to Jennings and Jennings had half a step and the safety was out of position to help. It was a good decision, just a little over thrown.

Favre on the other hadn threw into triple coverage over and over. I was partly blaming MM, but listening to Bedard, I agree with him. Favre just made really bad decisions. On the flea flicker, he had Jennings wide open. Favre just decided to let it rip into triple coverage. That's all Favre's fault.

True - Favre made some bad decisions. No doubt.

But 3rd and 1 driving.... you take the bomb when Grant has been running well. Had to settle for 3 instead of a possible 1st down.... 47 yd attempt

A few plays were designed outside pitches - where the DEs were killing us.

We certainly took our shots - and if Favre would've connected, we'd all be singing his praise (again).

[RashanGary]

yea some of the blame goes to Favre BUTTTTTT the o-line did no favors... He had no time, it was the worse i've seen it all year...

I know the packers have struggled against the 3-4 in the past couple of years, but once they held SD Defensive blitzes in check, I thought they turned a corner... Guess not, the packers need to practice more against the 3-4...

Protection or not, Favre was bombing into triple coverage. No excuse. Rodgers had the same protection and played much better than Favre. That is Favre's problem; he (and his fans) always have an excuse. If he'd jsut man up and accept responsibility maybe he'd stop having the worst games of his career in the biggest games of his career.

[RashanGary]

I hope Favre comes back and clear it up but he's had a lot of bad games in big games. It's a part of his legacy (not in GB but around teh country). It's a pattern. I hope it goes away because we look to have between 1 and 3 big games this year.

I think the best thing that could have happened was Rodgers coming in and out playing him. Favre needs to chill out and play within the system.

[packers11]

JH I do blame Favre on half of it... But comparing Favre and Rodgers in not fair, they play two different ways...

Vick had a shitty O-line but he could make things happen with his feet... Like Rodgers... he was moving around the pocket and running for the first downs...

Favre can not do that, if the O-line doesn't block, he is a sitting duck...

[Fosco33]

yea some of the blame goes to Favre BUTTTTTT the o-line did no favors... He had no time, it was the worse i've seen it all year...

I know the packers have struggled against the 3-4 in the past couple of years, but once they held SD Defensive blitzes in check, I thought they turned a corner... Guess not, the packers need to practice more against the 3-4...

Protection or not, Favre was bombing into triple coverage. No excuse. Rodgers had the same protection and played much better than Favre. That is Favre's problem he (and his fans) always have an excuse. If he'd jsut man up and accept responsibility maybe he'd stop having the worst games of his career in the biggest games of his career.

Rodgers through in double coverage (underthrow) - and a near INT. He had a few overthrows. He had a few ducks as well. But he did scramble alright and gave us an opp to win.

GJ made those drives. Grant getting that 1st down late for 1st and goal - made those drives. Grant and the Oline (and Kuhn) making some blocks - made those drives. I say Rodgers played alright - but nothing special.

[RashanGary]

JH I do blame Favre on half of it... But comparing Favre and Rodgers in not fair, they play two different ways...

Vick had a shitty O-line but he could make things happen with his feet... Like Rodgers... he was moving around the pocket and running for the first downs...

Favre can not do that, if the O-line doesn't block, he is a sitting duck...

Part of being a good QB is being able to capitalize on that. Favre is very good. He's having a great year but he layed another stinker in a big game and with Rodgers coming in and doing better it's hard to give him excuse after excuse. Just don't toss it into triple coverage and everything would have been better.

[The Leaper]

Protection or not, Favre was bombing into triple coverage. No excuse. Rodgers had the same protection and played much better than Favre. That is Favre's problem he (and his fans) always have an excuse. If he'd jsut man up and accept responsibility maybe he'd stop having the worst games of his career in the biggest games of his career.

There was no excuse for Favre's decision making.

There also is no excuse for the playcalling. Running multiple play-action passes was stupid. The Cowboys did not respect the run once on any of those plays...but McCarthy continued to call them. He was running these plays out of 2 WR sets. He abandoned the 4 and 5 WR sets that have been successful recently...and that worked on the first drive of the game.

I don't get the reporters who want to lay the blame entirely on Favre. Sure, he deserves to be blamed for making poor decisions on those plays...but the playcalling was foolish regardless.

When Rodgers got into the game, we stopped seeing stupid play-action passes. We started seeing more 3+ WR sets. We went back to the offense we should have been running the entire game.

I said it before the game. McCarthy had to follow the exact plan the Patriots used...he should have come out with 10 straight passes out of 4 and 5 WR sets. Play action should never have been used once. Favre could've torn apart this defense if you flooded the secondary with receivers. Instead, we tried to be smart and pull a fast one, thinking the Cowboys would be looking for the run. What a pathetically stupid strategy.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers through in double coverage (underthrow) - and a near INT. He had a few overthrows. He had a few ducks as well. But he did scramble alright and gave us an opp to win.

GJ made those drives. Grant getting that 1st down late for 1st and goal - made those drives. Grant and the Oline (and Kuhn) making some blocks - made those drives. I say Rodgers played alright - but nothing special.


If Favre would have gotten the ball to hsi playmakers instead of trying to wing it into triple coverage he could have benefited from teh Packers talented team too. He wanted to do it all himself. That is his M.O., esspecially in big games. YOu have to blame Favre for the bad game. Obviously the defense was just as bad, but Favre should not get any type of a pass on this. Does it mean he sucks? No, it probably doesn't but you have to be worried about how he's goign to play in his next big game. He's done this too often not to.

[Fosco33]

Protection or not, Favre was bombing into triple coverage. No excuse. Rodgers had the same protection and played much better than Favre. That is Favre's problem he (and his fans) always have an excuse. If he'd jsut man up and accept responsibility maybe he'd stop having the worst games of his career in the biggest games of his career.

There was no excuse for Favre's decision making.

There also is no excuse for the playcalling. Running multiple play-action passes was stupid. The Cowboys did not respect the run once on any of those plays...but McCarthy continued to call them. He was running these plays out of 2 WR sets. He abandoned the 4 and 5 WR sets that have been successful recently...and that worked on the first drive of the game.

I don't get the reporters who want to lay the blame entirely on Favre. Sure, he deserves to be blamed for making poor decisions on those plays...but the playcalling was foolish regardless.

When Rodgers got into the game, we stopped seeing stupid play-action passes. We started seeing more 3+ WR sets. We went back to the offense we should have been running the entire game.

I said it before the game. McCarthy had to follow the exact plan the Patriots used...he should have come out with 10 straight passes out of 4 and 5 WR sets. Play action should never have been used once. Favre could've torn apart this defense if you flooded the secondary with receivers. Instead, we tried to be smart and pull a fast one, thinking the Cowboys would be looking for the run. What a pathetically stupid strategy.

Leaper - I said nearly the same thing while watching the game. I guess you and I think alike.

[Fosco33]

Rodgers through in double coverage (underthrow) - and a near INT. He had a few overthrows. He had a few ducks as well. But he did scramble alright and gave us an opp to win.

GJ made those drives. Grant getting that 1st down late for 1st and goal - made those drives. Grant and the Oline (and Kuhn) making some blocks - made those drives. I say Rodgers played alright - but nothing special.


If Favre would have gotten the ball to hsi playmakers instead of trying to wing it into triple coverage he could have benefited from teh Packers talented team too. He wanted to do it all himself. That is his M.O., esspecially in big games. YOu have to blame Favre for the bad game. Obviously the defense was just as bad, but Favre should not get any type of a pass on this. Does it mean he sucks? No, it probably doesn't but you have to be worried about how he's goign to play in his next big game. He's done this too often not to.

I agreed before that he deserves some blame - but just some. The 2 INTs leading to 2 TDs... that's just bad (and some bad luck). Very tough to overcome that and the multiple hits he took (heck, he didn't realize he separated his shoulder until post game because his right arm hurt so much).

You keep mentioning the triple coverage - yes, that was ill advised and a low % chance shot. Tough to ridicule him when he's played that way for a decade and a half and made some great plays too. Wasn't his best game - but wasnt' M3's either.

[RashanGary]

Well guys, I'm off to work. I understand where you guys are coming from, but there is no pass for Favre on this. They were running well. there is no reason not to mix some play action into your run looks. It's something you need to do so every time you like up with a running back, they don't know it's a run.

The playaction wasn't the problem. It was the decisions of Favre. Rodgers ran playaction too and didn't bomb it into triple coverage.

I have a problem with Favre's play in big games. I hope he learned from this. He has to play within the system and make the right decisions to win. Even when we did get bombs this year, it was never into triple coverage. It was within the flow of the game at the right time. He forced it, it's that simple.

[RashanGary]

- but wasnt' M3's either.

bullshit excuse. I wanted to give it too, but the more that comes out, the more it's obvious that Brett had options. He decided to go deep, not McCArthy. Every couple plays have a seam. The QB doesn't have to bomb it every time. I couldn't believe he was doing it and thought it had to be the game plan to keep going deep. I was wrong, the more that comes out from Jennings and MM, the more it's obvous that Brett is really that dumb sometiems. He just tossed it up for grabs because he thinks he can do that in big games. Funny, he hasn't had any good plays in triple coverage all year but he thinks he'll do it in big games.

People can't give criticism to Favre without throwing an excuse at the end. Just say it, he played a shit game. Funny how every big game he plays in, it's always teh offensive coordinator. :roll: Favre is the only constant. Different players, different coaches, same result (bombs into triple coverage in big games)

Thats what Favre does. I hope Rodgers gave him a lesson yesterday. Favre is a better QB, but he beats himself with his poor aproach to big games.

[Bossman641]

Just because MM was calling play action does not mean you have to throw it deep. There were plenty of other options both short and intermediate. Favre played like shit, no excuses people.

[RashanGary]

Just because MM was calling play action does not mean you have to throw it deep. There were plenty of other options both short and intermediate. Favre played like shit, no excuses people.

Exactly, on the flea flicker, Jennings was wide open. He looked deflated after Favre bombed it into coverage. That was all Favre. McCarthy called a play taht got Jennings wide open. Favre screwed it up with a bad decsions. That is how they all went down. Favre just wanted to go deep, even if the defense wasn't giving it.

[MadtownPacker]

I have to wonder if Favre was having flashbacks or some shit. He was out of control. If the offense had played up to it's potential we might have been singing a different tune today.

I blame M3 also because he didn't do anything about it. He needed to do his job at that point. He also looked kind of lost until him and ARod got into a rhythm.

[Fosco33]

- but wasnt' M3's either.

bullshit excuse. I wanted to give it too, but the more that comes out, the more it's obvious that Brett had options. He decided to go deep, not McCArthy. Every couple plays have a seam. The QB doesn't have to bomb it ever time.

People can't give criticism to Favre without throwing an excuse at the end. Just say it, he played a shit game. Funny how every big game he plays in, it's always teh offensive coordinator. :roll: Favre is the only constant. Different players, different coaches, same result (bombs into triple coverage in big games)

Thats what Favre does.

I guess I'm a part apologist. 4th and 1. 3rd and 1. Cute plays - Favre or not. A few bad drives should get a Mike Holmgren like ass chewing.

[Fosco33]

For the third time, I say Favre deserves some blame - not his best game. Just funny when he makes those decisions and it works out - people ignore it because of the outcome.

[Carolina_Packer]

If our receivers have one of the best RAC's or YAC's in the league, they needed to concentrate on the C part of that, or what leads up to the C. I too was surprised they didn't play to their strength as a first strategy instead of "surprising" Dallas with vertical passing. Surprise, it didn't work!

To the person who said, Favre laid an egg, let's move on...probably the best thing to do. Brett has always seemed to play fine in his career after an injury, sometimes very well. We'll see. We're still in great shape. I'd be happier to be gelling at the exact right time (like in January), because most seasons have ebb and flow.

[Scott Campbell]

I'm glad we got to play them.



Exactly. Like boxers feeling eachother out. We'll find out what kind of game plan genius McCarthy is during the NFC title game - hopefully.

[The Leaper]

Just because MM was calling play action does not mean you have to throw it deep. There were plenty of other options both short and intermediate. Favre played like shit, no excuses people.

Most of the play-action plays I remember came out of 2 WR sets. There weren't a ton of options to throw to. There was probably a deep option and an intermediate option...then maybe the RB or a blocker would release into the flat after the fake.

You can't make a play look like a run and have 4 and 5 different receiving options. Considering the Cowboys did not respect the run one bit, it was unlikely that any of the routes were open.

Then you run a damn flea-flicker? An on-side kick? Did the entire first quarter not have the feeling to you that McCarthy was calling this game as if they only way we could win was through trickery and catching the Cowboys napping?

I'm sorry. Our offense is good enough to TORCH the damn Cowboys straight up. Stop with the trickery and just use what brought you to the damn dance.

[FritzDontBlitz]

For the third time, I say Favre deserves some blame - not his best game. Just funny when he makes those decisions and it works out - people ignore it because of the outcome.

Considering the fact the first 15 plays of every game in the WCO are scripted, you do have to wonder what M3 drew up. Favre wasn't in for more than 20 plays was he?

But yeah, I think he let the "0 and 8 at Texas Stadium" thing go to his head. And M3 should have benched him for a series if that was the case.

Yes. He should have benched Brett Favre.

I'm a serious Favre fanatic, but at the very least M3 should have been in his face on a "WTF was that??" tirade. Something. Anything.

Funny thing is, M3 was probably afraid to pull him because he might have expected A-Rod to do worse. I know I sure did. But, A-Rod rose to the challenge and at least made a game of it. Rodgers' inspiring play also showed that if M3 was sticking to the same gameplan he gave Brett at the outset it obviously wasn't a strategy issue, which puts the first quarter debacle squarely in Favre's lap.

I hope A-Rod's play last night at least gives M3 enough guts to pull Brett the next time he loses it, ignores the plan and starts throwing it up for grabs like he used to do prior to McCarthy's arrival. Rest assured, other teams will be trying to duplicate what Dallas did last night; M3 better be ready to make a move if Favre falls back on his old bad habits again.

I don't really see any shame in benching him myself. I would rather see Favre benched than see him self-destruct, because its very painful for any fan to watch when he does...

[b bulldog]

Nick by what your posting you'd think KGB was the next coming of 92. our D, the last three games, has been playing at a lesser level.

[Bossman641]

Just because MM was calling play action does not mean you have to throw it deep. There were plenty of other options both short and intermediate. Favre played like shit, no excuses people.

Most of the play-action plays I remember came out of 2 WR sets. There weren't a ton of options to throw to. There was probably a deep option and an intermediate option...then maybe the RB or a blocker would release into the flat after the fake.

You can't make a play look like a run and have 4 and 5 different receiving options. Considering the Cowboys did not respect the run one bit, it was unlikely that any of the routes were open.

Then you run a damn flea-flicker? An on-side kick? Did the entire first quarter not have the feeling to you that McCarthy was calling this game as if they only way we could win was through trickery and catching the Cowboys napping?

I'm sorry. Our offense is good enough to TORCH the damn Cowboys straight up. Stop with the trickery and just use what brought you to the damn dance.

Jennings was wide open on the flea flicker.

You want to call the onside kick cute, I'll call it gutsy. If they saw something on the returns they thought they could exploit, why not give it a chance? It's like the fake punt they ran earlier this year. If it works the coach is a genius, if it fails he is an idiot. 99% of the time it's that black and white. For us it was neither, only a 5 yard penalty. The thing is, that play WOULD have worked too. There was nobody near the ball. If the ball didn't bounce up and hit Kuhn in the arm we would have recovered no question. Unfortunately, he was concentrating too hard on taking out his man.

[b bulldog]

tHE PLAY WAS TOTALLY THERE, PERIOD, END OF DISCUSSION :lol:

[Joemailman]

The deep throws made no sense especially when you consider the injury situation on defense. If ever there was a night where the Packers needed to play ball-control, it was last night. Scoring touchdowns is obviously important, but keeping the Dallas offense off the field was nearly as important. There are lessons to be learned from this game, and my observation has been that McCarthy doesn't keep repeating mistakes. Therefore, I'm frustrated about last night, but still optimistic about the rest of the season.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I have to wonder if Favre was having flashbacks or some shit. He was out of control. If the offense had played up to it's potential we might have been singing a different tune today.

I blame M3 also because he didn't do anything about it. He needed to do his job at that point. He also looked kind of lost until him and ARod got into a rhythm.

Madtown, I was having flashbacks! God I hate Dallas! That's what makes this so tough. That bunch of cowgirls is nothing but arrogance personified. After the game TO talked like he was God's gift to football. Never once credited the Packers for anything.

And did you catch their head coach in the locker room after the game? About as inspiring as constipation. These girls will get their comeuppance before the season ends. Somebody's going to knock them off. Let's see what they do when the injury bug hits them.

One year the NFL will schedule them to play in Green Bay and we'll wipe the smirk off of TO and "America's team."

(Sorry, this post got away from me! :) )

[Freak Out]

I have to wonder if Favre was having flashbacks or some shit. He was out of control. If the offense had played up to it's potential we might have been singing a different tune today.

I blame M3 also because he didn't do anything about it. He needed to do his job at that point. He also looked kind of lost until him and ARod got into a rhythm.

Madtown, I was having flashbacks! God I hate Dallas! That's what makes this so tough. That bunch of cowgirls is nothing but arrogance personified. After the game TO talked like he was God's gift to football. Never once credited the Packers for anything.

And did you catch their head coach in the locker room after the game? About as inspiring as constipation. These girls will get their comeuppance before the season ends. Somebody's going to knock them off. Let's see what they do when the injury bug hits them.

One year the NFL will schedule them to play in Green Bay and we'll wipe the smirk off of TO and "America's team."

(Sorry, this post got away from me! :) )

Winners get to talk trash....Witten getting in Hawks face talking trash...TO..and Romo in a press conference making wise ass comments about Favre not finishing the game. They've been beat before and they will get beat again. Did anyone ask TO about Harris taking the ball away from him? I missed him holding court after the game.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Freak Out, better you didn't see Eldorado holding court. The guy's a classless prick.

[RashanGary]

For the third time, I say Favre deserves some blame - not his best game. Just funny when he makes those decisions and it works out - people ignore it because of the outcome.

Do you realize that Favre hasn't made many of these bone headed plays. Think back to all of the bombs.

- Jennings in SD got behind a 1 safety look on the sideline
- Jones got behind Bailey in a one safety look down the sideline
- Jennings bot behind Bly on a one safety look on the sideline
- I don't remember the defense on Drivers, but he was behind it

I can only think of a couple throws in coverage that were fantastic in coverage, and they was over the corner, under the safety on sail routes or outroutes from the slot reciever. Pay attn. Favre hasn't been doing stupid shit this year and they are winning. In fact, it's a bit of a myth that Favre does to stupid shit. When he was young the threw it in tight windows, but Favre has never made a living being an idiot. He's mostly tarnished his big game legacy by it.

[b bulldog]

he made all kinds of those throws against the Skins but other than that he has been pretty patient.

[RashanGary]

Yep, and you listen to the post game, Jennings said that was Brett deciding to go deep. He said it wasn't the game plan.

Favre deserves all the credit for doing what he's done in big games over the last 10 years. The bigger the game, the more INT's and the more choking you can expect. I really hope he plays like he plays in the regular games in the big ones, but it seems like he just panics and can't control himself in a big game.

[b bulldog]

Brett does do stupid things witht he ball, everyone who watches football realizes this but he also does some real good things with the ball. You don't get the pic record by being smart with the ball.

[RashanGary]

Brett does do stupid things witht he ball, everyone who watches football realizes this but he also does some real good things with the ball. You don't get the pic record by being smart with the ball.

haha, good point. His best years (the SB years and this year) he was safe with the ball.

[b bulldog]

Even if the gameplan is to test a team deep, it by no way mean you throw it into triple coverage. brett's injury allowed him out of one of his 3-5 interception games but hopefully that will be his last bad game of the year. He has played well this point so I'm not going to go nuts over last night. If he does this in the playoffs again, that is another story.

[RashanGary]

Even if the gameplan is to test a team deep, it by no way mean you throw it into triple coverage. brett's injury allowed him out of one of his 3-5 interception games but hopefully that will be his last bad game of the year. He has played well this point so I'm not going to go nuts over last night. If he does this in the playoffs again, that is another story.

That's exactly where I stand. I've been very happy with his play this year and I execpt it to continue. I am waiting and seeing in the playoffs htough. He's been nothing short of horrible over the last 10 years in teh playoffs. I want him to show he is able to win the big game, even if it is just one playoff game.

[The Shadow]

An 8.9 passer rating is not going to win you too many games....

[RashanGary]

Uh Oh. Shadow has arrived. . . . It's about to blow up :) :)

No, Bretts had a great year. He just laid an egg and with the way the playoff games have gone recently, the bad memories are hard to erase.

I'm not condemning Favre at all. I'm just really disappointed the way he handled the pressure of that big game. He was just not himself.

[packers11]

I think as the game goes on Favre gets better... I remember the Giants/KC game the packers were off to such a slow start...

He came back in the 2nd half to throw 2-3 td's to seal the win...

I remember clearly in the KC game when he threw 2 int's in the first half I was so pissed off, but then they made half time adjustments and he came out just torching their secondary...

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm just really disappointed the way he handled the pressure of that big game. He was just not himself.

Unfortunately, if you look at past Texas Stadium games, he was exactly himself. He has these stinker games, especially when the team as a whole is getting man-handled. He tries to turn things around with risky throws.

Maybe the real culprit for the first-half fiasco was the offensive coordinator. Should have stuck with short passes until they got the pass rush figured out.

[wist43]

Brett sometimes comes out of the tunnel and is committed to just flingin the damn thing all over the place.

Hasn't done it much during McCarthy's time here, but he used to do it all the time during Sherman's tenure. I love Favre, but if it's early in the game, and he's just chuckin around the field w/o regard for the game plan, or what the defense is willing to give - then just bench him for a series. If that doesn't work, bench him for the rest of the game.

As for the defense? That had to be one of the dumbest gameplans I've ever seen... Don't even know where to begin. Sanders and his staff were completely outcoached.

[Partial]

Brett sometimes comes out of the tunnel and is committed to just flingin the damn thing all over the place.

Hasn't done it much during McCarthy's time here, but he used to do it all the time during Sherman's tenure. I love Favre, but if it's early in the game, and he's just chuckin around the field w/o regard for the game plan, or what the defense is willing to give - then just bench him for a series. If that doesn't work, bench him for the rest of the game.

As for the defense? That had to be one of the dumbest gameplans I've ever seen... Don't even know where to begin. Sanders and his staff were completely outcoached.

Agreed. Was very evident when AJ was running down the field covering TO.

[Tarlam!]

As for the defense? That had to be one of the dumbest gameplans I've ever seen... Don't even know where to begin. Sanders and his staff were completely outcoached.

Agreed. Was very evident when AJ was running down the field covering TO.

Yeah, it was painful to watch. I think our safeties were outclassed, though. Al Harris, and I have a man-crush on him, was aweful. Plain aweful.

Al should have smashed TO in the mouth on the first play. I bet, if by the Grace of God, we make the NFC title game, he does exactly that next time around.

[Bretsky]

As for the defense? That had to be one of the dumbest gameplans I've ever seen... Don't even know where to begin. Sanders and his staff were completely outcoached.

Agreed. Was very evident when AJ was running down the field covering TO.

Yeah, it was painful to watch. I think our safeties were outclassed, though. Al Harris, and I have a man-crush on him, was aweful. Plain aweful.

Al should have smashed TO in the mouth on the first play. I bet, if by the Grace of God, we make the NFC title game, he does exactly that next time around.


Our safeties were just lost; Bigby is a great hitter but just isn't a cover guy yet. Collins has the talent; just not there yet

[wist43]

Defending a WR like TO, or Moss, or CJ isn't all that complicated. Where it gets dicey is in the execution - AND, the degree to which the other team is able to hurt you with their other weapons.

That said, defending any one of those three when you're playing their teams has to be priority #1 when fleshing out your game plan.

And, as I said, that part of your game plan shouldn't be all that complicated, i.e. Harris clued to him on every play, with safety awareness over the top. If they show that they're going to try to scrub Harris off out certain formations, and put TO in motion in attempts to free him up either from Harris off the line, or the Saftey on the second level, then simply make the proper adjustment to what their doing with formations and movement, keep TO bottled up underneath, and go from there.

Crayton had two TD's, that doesn't bother me. I think the front 6 can keep Barber bottled up fairly consistently. Witten is a little bit more of a problem - Bigby gotten taken to task.

Any way you slice it Dallas is going to move the ball, and they're going to score some pts... but their defense can be had, so if you can limit them to a few FG attempt's instead of TD's and force a few more punts you've got a chance.

Dallas is very beatable, and I do believe our defense is better than theirs. We were very banged up, and Sanders laid a monstrous egg with that debacle of a gameplan he came up with. If they can get healthy and learn from their mistakes, I'd like our chances in a rematch.

[Harlan Huckleby]

As for the defense? That had to be one of the dumbest gameplans I've ever seen... Don't even know where to begin. Sanders and his staff were completely outcoached.

How do you coach around wall-like pass protection? Followed by a secondary that has never played together? How do you scheme around Jarrett Bush?

Actually, you might be correct that they could have done things better. But packers played shorthanded (woodson, KGB, Rouse, Jolly, Cole ) against a superior team. No defensive coordinator is gonna look brilliant.

[RashanGary]

As for the defense? That had to be one of the dumbest gameplans I've ever seen... Don't even know where to begin. Sanders and his staff were completely outcoached.

How do you coach around wall-like pass protection? Followed by a secondary that has never played together? How do you scheme around Jarrett Bush?

Actually, you might be correct that they could have done things better. But packers played shorthanded (woodson, KGB, Rouse, Jolly, Cole ) against a superior team. No defensive coordinator is gonna look brilliant.

I agree, HH. Maybe they should have brought some pressure in the 3rd quarter when it was abundantly clear that the front 4 was just not going to get there. I probably would have brought Poppinga on Kamps side, forcing them to take Kamp with one guy. It's tough though. It's always easy to act like we were smarter after the fact. I agree with you that they were more overmatched than overcoached but I'm sure there is some combination of the two that is the true answer.

[Fred's Slacks]

I can't stress enough how big of a mistake Harris made on the 3rd and 18. That was the turning point. We had just scored to pull within 3 and were about to force a 3 and out and would have gotten the ball back at mid-field with our offense rolling.

Then Al decides to watch Romo and cover nobody.

Its almost comical to watch the throw sail over his head and see him standing there and nobody is within 20 yards of him. Dallas gains 38 yards and continues on with the drive. Sure TO bailed us out with the turnover in the endzone but by that time our momentum was lost and we had to start over at the 20. Our defense was dog tired and we didn't get our offense back in sync.

Harris has been really good again this season but for a veteran to make a mistake like that (don't have a clue what he was thinking) in a game like that in that situation is inexcusable. He needs to be smarter than that.

[Fred's Slacks]

If we play them again, the biggest key is that we need to be prepared for the blitz. Dallas was going to do whatever they needed to get pressure. That's why Favre kept throwing deep. They starting getting to him and his first read was down field. He wasn't getting to the underneath man because he started to feel the pressure, so he heaved it down field.

If they're going to blitz, we have to read it better. Be prepared to leave backs and TE's in or go to the hot routes. I know it sucks to have less guys out in routes, but our receivers are good enough that we only need 2 or 3 of them out. The most important part is to give Brett time so he makes the right read. That's the part that was missing in the first half.

[4and12to12and4]

If we play them again, the biggest key is that we need to be prepared for the blitz. Dallas was going to do whatever they needed to get pressure. That's why Favre kept throwing deep. They starting getting to him and his first read was down field. He wasn't getting to the underneath man because he started to feel the pressure, so he heaved it down field.

If they're going to blitz, we have to read it better. Be prepared to leave backs and TE's in or go to the hot routes. I know it sucks to have less guys out in routes, but our receivers are good enough that we only need 2 or 3 of them out. The most important part is to give Brett time so he makes the right read. That's the part that was missing in the first half.

Our oline played good enough to win. That wasn't the problem. We were outmatched a bit in the trenches, but not enough that we can blame that on the loss. The zebras ref a fair game and a few plays that we needed back, and we get the win. I thought we played pretty damn good considering the injuries. And I'm kinda glad Brett changed his offensive approach, if we play them again, and he goes back to how he's been playing, they'll be less prepared for it.

[Fred's Slacks]

If we play them again, the biggest key is that we need to be prepared for the blitz. Dallas was going to do whatever they needed to get pressure. That's why Favre kept throwing deep. They starting getting to him and his first read was down field. He wasn't getting to the underneath man because he started to feel the pressure, so he heaved it down field.

If they're going to blitz, we have to read it better. Be prepared to leave backs and TE's in or go to the hot routes. I know it sucks to have less guys out in routes, but our receivers are good enough that we only need 2 or 3 of them out. The most important part is to give Brett time so he makes the right read. That's the part that was missing in the first half.

Our oline played good enough to win. That wasn't the problem. We were outmatched a bit in the trenches, but not enough that we can blame that on the loss. The zebras ref a fair game and a few plays that we needed back, and we get the win. I thought we played pretty damn good considering the injuries. And I'm kinda glad Brett changed his offensive approach, if we play them again, and he goes back to how he's been playing, they'll be less prepared for it.

You seriously think Favre had enough time to make his reads?

Colledge certainly didn't play well enough for us to win. Besides him, the rest of the OLine did play well enough to win, but I didn't say they needed to play better. I said we need to be better prepared for the blitz. Its not about how they played, its the game plan. Be better prepared to keep guys in on protection.

Everyone likes to talk about how stupid Brett played, but the problem was he didn't have time to make his reads. He felt the pressure and threw to his first read, which according to M3 and Brett was to attack down the field. He's still partially at fault for not reading the blitz at the line, but again, next time we need to be better prepared for it.

Yes their were a lot of factors that contributed to the lose. But if we move the ball effectively and don't turn the ball over, we never go down by 17 and its a different game.