What is wrong with Nick???

[packers11]

I didn't see him anywhere last night... Only once on that tackle when T.O. got 34 yards... He always seems to be out of position...

He has so much athleticism, but he seems to be lost...

Thoughts???

[Sparkey]

I didn't see him anywhere last night... Only once on that tackle when T.O. got 34 yards... He always seems to be out of position...

He has so much athleticism, but he seems to be lost...

Thoughts???

I was just going to ask the same question......
I can see him struggling in run D, with how poorly the Dline payed at times, but he was non-existant in pass coverage......

[Carolina_Packer]

Yeah, there was plenty of blame to go around in that effort in the secondary. They looked like a wholly different unit, with the lack of pressure having something to do with it, but they didn't seem assignment sure much. The T.O. popcorn touchdown, Nick was like 5-10 yards off of him, looking out of position. When he and Al were coming to the sideline, Al was kind of looking at him like, what was that? In a players third season, you kind of expect him to know where he's supposed to be and reading/reacting to the play and I'm not sure that anticipation/recognition is there as much as it needs to be.

[AtlPackFan]

Yeah, there was plenty of blame to go around in that effort in the secondary. They looked like a wholly different unit, with the lack of pressure having something to do with it, but they didn't seem assignment sure much. The T.O. popcorn touchdown, Nick was like 5-10 yards off of him, looking out of position. When he and Al were coming to the sideline, Al was kind of looking at him like, what was that? In a players third season, you kind of expect him to know where he's supposed to be and reading/reacting to the play and I'm not sure that anticipation/recognition is there as much as it needs to be.


Don't want to beat a dead horse...not too much anyway...but how much of this is coaching???

[Tarlam!]

That stadium must be one hell hole. If our HOFer QB can't win there, that place must be filled with voodoo.

Anyway, I hope if we go back there, they will have found a way to produce anti bodies, or something!

[woodbuck27]

Favre went in there losing 8 straight.

Did anyone here seriously believe we could do it esp. with Charles Woodson and KGB out?

Also our 'D' is playing too soft and have to pick it up a lot.

We will not go deep into the playoffs unless something huge happens.

[MJZiggy]

Did anyone here seriously believe we could do it esp. with Charles Woodson and KGB out?

Yes.

[b bulldog]

Our S's are the worst tandem in the league

[Scott Campbell]

We will not go deep into the playoffs unless something huge happens.



Wow - Woody ready to wave the white flag after a tough loss. :shock:

[b bulldog]

Bigby and Collins are liabilities on D

[packrat]

This game would have been won if Favre had taken the short completions under the coverage, moved the ball, ate up time, stymied the rush with quick passes. In other words, if Favre had started off playing like Rodgers ended up, we'd have had more points, we'd have rested our defense, and we'd have kept the Cowboy's offense off the field. The defense wasn't great, but it was good enough, if only Favre had delivered for the offense instead of throwing repeated off target, bombs to receivers who were covered. I love Brett, but facts is facts and I am sure he will be kicking himself when he looks at the film, if he is able to do so.

[Bretsky]

Our S's are the worst tandem in the league

I doubt this would be true, but it would be interesting to examine

If we were now given the choice of whether we'd want Justin Harrell or Reggie Nelson out there, my gut tells me anybody who's honest about it would grab the safety.

Leaper was probably right before the draft. :clap:

[b bulldog]

I bet we would be close.

[cpk1994]

We will not go deep into the playoffs unless something huge happens.



Wow - Woody ready to wave the white flag after a tough loss. :shock:Come on now. You should know by now that Woody will hang on to anything that will allow him to resume his "TT sucks and should be fired" insanity.

[mraynrand]

Collins is finished with the Packers. The only reason he's out there is that they have no one else. He will be one of the first to be replaced in the off season. It's even likely that he will not be starting when Rouse comes back. He's lacking in the mental/instinctual part of the game. He's a liability in man coverage. He's a lost cause.

[RashanGary]

Harris looked like a CFL scrub last game too. Romo has a funny way of doing that to guys when he gets zero pressure for 60 minutes. I agree that both Collins and Bigby seem to be making the same mistakes though. Collins has had a solid year as far as not giving up many, but he hasn't made any big ones either. I'd give him a C- for being consistanly average. Bigby probably deserves the same, a C-. He's getting beat far too often. His physical play is nice, but he has to bring some consistancy to his game. Rouse is probably in a similar boat. He made some nice plays be he gave up some monster runs by taking bad angles and not tackling.

Rouse is really starting to grow on me. It's starting to look like neither Collins nor Bigby are the final answer. I don't think either of them really kill you because our defense has been giving up 15 pts per game coming into this game, but both could be upgraded. If we go into next year iwth Collins and Rouse or Bigby and Rouse, I wouldn't panic. I think all three of our safety's are a lot better than grabby smurf was at CB but they could be better too, so it's not a bad thing to find replacements.

[Merlin]

When you are playing a zone and you are not getting a pass rush, your secondary is going to look like crap. On plays where we actually got pressure on Romo, he was off target on his throws. Mind you that wasn't very often.

Our defense relies on the pass rush to help out a bump and run man to man type coverage. We didn't run that much, we ran zone. I don't know why we changed our strategy from what worked to something else. Dallas did not impress me at all. We were out coached for sure on defense.

One other interesting thing:

Anyone who taped the game, look at #75 for the Cowboy's. Every time Kampman lined up across from him, he moved early on passing downs. They only called it twice in the game and that was later on. The first drive of the game, he moved three times in a row early with no flag. I don't like blaming a game on the ref's but it was clear to me that the refs were not on the same page and at least two of them didn't want Green Bay to win and 1-2 of them made the right calls but were over-ruled by the ones who made shitty calls.

It's hard enough to go on the road and play in a hostile stadium, it's 10 times as hard when the zebras look like ringling bros.

[RashanGary]

Good observations, Merlin. I saw the same thing. Muir got pressure on the 2nd or 3rd drive on a 3rd down and the ball was thrown early into coverage. If he had time, he would have waited until he crossed into a gray area of the zone and let it go. That's what happens when your pass rush sucks.

I do think Collins has been disappointing in big plays on a consistant basis though. It would not be a bad thing to replace him, but I think it's a bit of an overreaction to say he's done and is horrible considering how bad the pass rush and how dependent the secondary is on the pressure. Bigby is the same way. He keeps getting beat on those sail routes. They do take a long time to develop. Maybe the defense is giving that up a little and counting on the pass rush.

In the end, I think most people here are jumping the gun on how bad the secondary is. As far as Colliins placement in the endzone, that was just bad but it was only one play. He hasn't had many of those.

I'd be happy to find better players, but it's not like we're dealing with two grabby smurfs here. They have done a decent job for most of the season. They have their stregnths and weaknesses but so does every player.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Collins is finished with the Packers. The only reason he's out there is that they have no one else. He will be one of the first to be replaced in the off season. It's even likely that he will not be starting when Rouse comes back. He's lacking in the mental/instinctual part of the game. He's a liability in man coverage. He's a lost cause.

This is rich!

You're the guy who called me mentally defective for suggesting that the Packers would be well-served if Rouse could upgrade the position. An argument you cemented with a statistical proof that Nick Collins is not so far in the shadow of ... who was it, Brian Dawkins. :lol: :lol:

What a difference a week makes!

A week ... sometimes an hour does the trick. You called me a know-nothing for saying Leoroy Butler declined sharply at end of his career, then an hour later argued he couldn't run anymore in his twilight.

I'm starting to think you are just a guy with a bad temper who holds grudges and throw around insults. But perhaps your alternate explanation that I am "bereft of intellectual heft" and can't follow your reasoning is the correct one.

[RashanGary]

I laughed at that too, HH. I'm not mister consistancy so maybe I should stay out of this but I found it funny how quickly he turned on Collins after one bad game where a pretty impressive QB had all day to throw the ball.

[Harlan Huckleby]

actually JH, maybe Ayn made a tongue-in-cheek post to arouse passions. Something fishy about it, it's a little too perfect.

[RashanGary]

actually JH, maybe Ayn made a tongue-in-cheek post to arouse passions. Something fishy about it, it's a little too perfect.

Very good point. I know bulldog is the master of this.

I, personally, am above this type of devious, scandelous prying.

[mraynrand]

But perhaps your alternate explanation that I am "bereft of intellectual heft" and can't follow your reasoning is the correct one.

I agree with this.

[mraynrand]

actually JH, maybe Ayn made a tongue-in-cheek post to arouse passions. Something fishy about it, it's a little too perfect.

I agree with this.

[mraynrand]

All joking aside, Collins really struggles with man coverage (but he's not required to do it all that often) and his downfall is his lack of instincts and/or mental aspects of the game. And HH, if you check back, what I blasted you for was not having anything but 'gut feelings' to go on regarding Rouse. Since then, we've actually seen the guy play some. I was at the Detroit game, and I liked what I saw of him pre-snap and reacting to plays. I would have liked to have seen him play more to get a better sense of how good he is. Who knows, maybe your gut was right. (BTW, I don't know if it made it on TV, but after Rouse hurt his knee, he was writhing on the gournd and when Peprah ran in to replace him, Rouse sprang to his feet and ran over to the defensive huddle. Peprah ran off the field. It was really strange).