1000 yards for Grant?

[Patler]

Interesting possibility:

In the last six games he has 115 carries for 561 yards, giving him a season total of 588 yards. Can he get 412 yards in the next four games? With Favre nicked up, Rogers out, and two of the next four games at Lambeau in December he could get a few more carries each game.

Six weeks ago some questioned whether the Packers could get 1000 yards rushing as a team.

[RashanGary]

Early in the season, I thought it would be hard for a player to be a better suprise than Bigby. Turns out Grant is the best suprise of this season.

[Bretsky]

Early in the season, I thought it would be hard for a player to be a better suprise than Bigby. Turns out Grant is the best suprise of this season.

I'm still undecided on Bigby; I'm not sure how much of a surprise he's been. Dude can hit though

[RashanGary]

Bigby's luster has warn off. I like his toughness too, but he's got to get a little more consistant in the pass game.

Grant has really come on though. Grant is have a very impressive year.

[Bretsky]

Bigby's luster has warn off. I like his toughness too, but he's got to get a little more consistant in the pass game.

Grant has really come on though. Grant is have a very impressive year.


Bigby's ball skills are not quite as bad, but Carroll like. We still may need to address that position. Haven't seen enough of Rouse but in limited action he does look like he has ball skills

I love Grant; after his first start as a Packer I traded Kevin Curtis for him in the $2500 Fantasy Football League in New York I'm in with a partner and he's helped us get a 60 point lead in a total points league. Hopefully we don't choke it away in the last four weeks. Grant is starting for us this week as well.

[hoosier]

Interesting possibility:

In the last six games he has 115 carries for 561 yards, giving him a season total of 588 yards. Can he get 412 yards in the next four games? With Favre nicked up, Rogers out, and two of the next four games at Lambeau in December he could get a few more carries each game.

Six weeks ago some questioned whether the Packers could get 1000 yards rushing as a team.

Two of the remaining four games are against teams with bad to awful run defenses (Oak: 148/game, Chi: 131/game) and two against mediocre run defenses (StL: 109, Det: 106). Three of the four will be outdoors in presumably inclement weather. I wouldn't be surprised to see Grant top 1000.

[HarveyWallbangers]

St. Louis' run defense has really picked up late in the year. They haven't allowed a 100 yard rusher since week 1. St. Louis really scares me. With Bulger and Jackson healthy, they will be tough to beat in their dome.

[RashanGary]

Bigby's luster has warn off. I like his toughness too, but he's got to get a little more consistant in the pass game.

Grant has really come on though. Grant is have a very impressive year.


Bigby's ball skills are not quite as bad, but Carroll like. We still may need to address that position. Haven't seen enough of Rouse but in limited action he does look like he has ball skills

I love Grant; after his first start as a Packer I traded Kevin Curtis for him in the $2500 Fantasy Football League in New York I'm in with a partner and he's helped us get a 60 point lead in a total points league. Hopefully we don't choke it away in the last four weeks. Grant is starting for us this week as well.

Wow, congrats. I'm going to start playing fantasy sports next year. I've been too busy to learn, but it sounds like a lot fun.

[FritzDontBlitz]

Early in the season, I thought it would be hard for a player to be a better suprise than Bigby. Turns out Grant is the best suprise of this season.

Bigby still surprises me, but its not the fact that he's the starter its the weird assortment of penalties he manages to get called for.

The good news is Aaron Rouse should play this week, so there's help on the horizon. It may be time to pair Collins and Rouse. Collins and Bigby are both notorious for getting burned because they stare in the backfield too long, at least Having Rouse back there gives them a little more balance.

[SkinBasket]

I love Grant; after his first start as a Packer I traded Kevin Curtis for him in the $2500 Fantasy Football League in New York I'm in with a partner and he's helped us get a 60 point lead in a total points league. Hopefully we don't choke it away in the last four weeks. Grant is starting for us this week as well.

B, for all the talk we had of booby bars, I didn't know you were gay.

[SkinBasket]

Early in the season, I thought it would be hard for a player to be a better suprise than Bigby.

A flaming pile of shit would be a bigger surprise than Bigby's unintelligent, nonathletic, ineffectual play. WTF? The only surprise Bigby's brought to the table is how fucking slow he is.

[KYPack]

Easy Skin.

OC's have tape on Bigby. They are taking advantage of his coverage deficiencies. He's a peeker. Peekers start fast, but they don't last.

Safeties must get their keys down cold and learn to trust 'em.

Bigby peeks when he panics. Then he gets burned. If he doesn't make the adjustment, he'll be history.

[Bretsky]

I love Grant; after his first start as a Packer I traded Kevin Curtis for him in the $2500 Fantasy Football League in New York I'm in with a partner and he's helped us get a 60 point lead in a total points league. Hopefully we don't choke it away in the last four weeks. Grant is starting for us this week as well.

B, for all the talk we had of booby bars, I didn't know you were gay.


You were too loaded to remember talking about da booby bars anyways :lol:

[Deputy Nutz]

Bigby's luster has warn off. I like his toughness too, but he's got to get a little more consistant in the pass game.

Grant has really come on though. Grant is have a very impressive year.


Bigby's ball skills are not quite as bad, but Carroll like. We still may need to address that position. Haven't seen enough of Rouse but in limited action he does look like he has ball skills

I love Grant; after his first start as a Packer I traded Kevin Curtis for him in the $2500 Fantasy Football League in New York I'm in with a partner and he's helped us get a 60 point lead in a total points league. Hopefully we don't choke it away in the last four weeks. Grant is starting for us this week as well.

Ball Skills? He hasn't been close enough to the fucking receiver to even test those ball skills you speak of. Maybe the ball skills you mention have to do with sexual content I am not aware of, but shit those are the only balls he has been sniffing the past couple of weeks.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kind of interesting that Bigby is third among NFC safeties in tackles with 77. Michael Lewis, SF has 82. LaRon Landry, WAS has 78. His 3 forced fumbles ranks second among NFC safeties. Chris Harris, CHI has 5. He's 10th among the 32 starting safeties in the NFC with 5 pass deflections. Of course, he only has 1 interception.

[The Leaper]

Kind of interesting that Bigby is third among NFC safeties in tackles with 77.

How is it interesting? That is why he is always peeking in the backfield. The guy has the mentality of a LB. He's a liability in coverage, and as a DB...especially in our scheme...that isn't good.

[HarveyWallbangers]

He's had some bad games, but I think he's played better overall than most people give him credit for. The last two guys that played his spot were liabilities in coverage and run support. Now, I don't think he's shown that he's the long-term answer, but I love how Packer fans are always all over their safeties. I bet there were Packer fans that hated LeRoy Butler his first couple of years in the league. Probably said the team should make him a corner.
:D

[Bretsky]

He's had some bad games, but I think he's played better overall than most people give him credit for. The last two guys that played his spot were liabilities in coverage and run support. Now, I don't think he's shown that he's the long-term answer, but I love how Packer fans are always all over their safeties. I bet there were Packer fans that hated LeRoy Butler his first couple of years in the league. Probably said the team should make him a corner.
:D

I don't buy the all over your safeties theory. Well, maybe the un intelligent ones

I always liked Butler
I'm a Sharper Defender.
I see potential in Nick Collins and think he's an average starter
Undecided on Rouse

Bigby lacks coverage skills and the ability to play the ball. He's an adequate backup but doesn't belong in a starting lineup.

If I'm an OC I scheme to take advantage of his weaknesses.

[MadtownPacker]

Harvey backing Bigby is reminding me of his backing of darren "gives up huge plays" sharper.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Sharper was a good player for us. Even very good for a 2-3 year stretch.

[Tarlam!]

Easy Skin.

OC's have tape on Bigby. They are taking advantage of his coverage deficiencies. He's a peeker. Peekers start fast, but they don't last.

Safeties must get their keys down cold and learn to trust 'em.

Bigby peeks when he panics. Then he gets burned. If he doesn't make the adjustment, he'll be history.

These posts from KY are like a drug. I am addicted to this shit, cause KY really should be a coach somewhere. Maybe he is!

[Bretsky]

Jones was TT's best draft pick last year

Grant may turn out to be TT's best draft pick used next year

He's a keeper

We can still draft a RB high as a complement to Grant...aka...two headed monster....but it's no longer a need.

Kudos to TT for recognizing the need for another quality back and watching the Giants situation well enough to know when to make a deal happen.

In retrospect TT was going to go get either Derrick Ward or Ryan Grant, whoever cost less

Both backs look pretty dam good

[Joemailman]

Glad we didn't end up with Ward since he is now out for the year.

[deake]

Aren't we jumping the gun a little on Bigby, sure like the way he hits, seems it takes a while for safetys to develop, Sharper for instance, bad, bad in his first years even with Leroy to coach him. One big thing Bigby has going for him is that the other guys back there like him.

[Bretsky]

Aren't we jumping the gun a little on Bigby, sure like the way he hits, seems it takes a while for safetys to develop, Sharper for instance, bad, bad in his first years even with Leroy to coach him. One big thing Bigby has going for him is that the other guys back there like him.


To me Sharper was pretty good in his rookie year. In year two he got beat on a couple long plays and had a terrible time with tackling and taking bad angles to make the tackle. He improved on that and IMO was always solid when healthy after that.

Bigby was on the practice squad all of last year and this is his first full year of playing.

I just don't think he possesses the talent of a starting safety or of guys like Sharper, Collins, or even Rouse. Solid against the run, and has nice aggression on the blitzes. But when the ball is up in the air I hope Bigby is not the defender.

He still might be OK, but the ball skills are just not nearly there yet. If I was an offensive coordinator, I'd be going to whoever he's covering.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Sharper was in the right spot at the right time his rookie year a couple of times, but he wasn't a standout. Kind of like Marques Anderson in his rookie year. He was horrible his second year. He didn't have a sack, interception, or forced fumble--and he missed a ton of tackles. He was bad the first half of his third year, but turned it around a bit the second half. His fourth year he became a Pro Bowl caliber safety.

As far as Bigby, I don't think talent is his problem. He's big enough. He's a force in run support. He has a knack for causing fumbles. He's fast. Of course, a lot of talented guys haven't done squat.

[4and12to12and4]

I was suprised that Bigby had three forced fumbles. I didn't realize that. Makes sense though, the way he hits. However, the 77 tackles is not a good stat. If you're guy doesn't catch the ball, you don't have to tackle him. In his defense, I'm sure at least half of those are on running plays. We are basically running a 4-4-3 defense with him out there. He's just another backer, and hits harder than any of our other backers, in fact, maybe he should be converted to a backer, we could get a pretty good trade for Hawk, and just have Bigby put on about 15 more pounds of muscle. Hawks overrated anyways, and we'd probably get a 1st and 3rd round pick for him. Or a first rounder, and a better safety than Bigby. Maybe we're jumping the gun, he is young, very inexperienced. We should give him at least until midway through next season, safeties is one of the most mentally challenging positions on defense. And he's a rookie. It's not like Collins is doing anything special out there either. We are all high on Rouse because of his two interceptions in two starts, but he does seem to have great instinct and quickness, good recovery speed, and seems MUCH more intelligent than Bigby in interviews.

It would be unbelievable is Grant pulled off 1000 yards this year. He will do it if he stays healthy and we run him at least 20 times each remaining game. But, the that Bears game scares me, this is a reverse of last year, and this will be their playoff game. He'll be lucky to get 50 yards in that game. If we game plan to run, I think Grant could have a huge game against Oakland, especially if we use 3 and 4 receiver sets and spread 'em out, and use the pitch and draw a lot. That pitch play is perfect for Grant, because that extra couple of yards he gets has him going full steam right through the line, and it allows him to see the gaps better and make the proper cuts. Is Sapp still playing for Oakland, or is he injured, he's probably a liability out there, he hasn't been very good for the past three seasons.

[Him8123]

that would be very impressive if Grant could pull off a 1000 yards. Not bad for not starting til week 9 in the first year of actually playing. Hopefully he keeps up the good work. But hey even Gado and Morency looked great the year Green was hurt.

[HarveyWallbangers]

However, the 77 tackles is not a good stat. If you're guy doesn't catch the ball, you don't have to tackle him.

For corners, it's usually a bad thing. Not necessarily for safeties. Usually a safety that gets a ton of tackles is a guy that is pretty damn good in run support. A lot of times it doesn't really say anything about his coverage skills. Depends on each individual. Some corners get a lot of tackles because they are excellent in run support (Antoine Winfield comes to mind). With Bigby, it's easy to see by watching him that he's much better in run support than coverage though.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I expect Grant to get a buck 50 today.

[RashanGary]

I'm not that down on Bigby yet. I think he tackles with more impact than any of our LBs. If Bigby gets his paws on a RB, the RB is not going forward. It's strange, the guy is what? 215? but he stops RB's in their tracks and usually pushes them back. He also crushes WR's coming over the middle, twice taking them out of the game in the first quarter. He's a little pit bull and he's young. There is nothing wrong with going through a few growing pains with him. He's essentially a rookie. He has to start showing signs of consistancy though. He's getting beat too often on deep balls.

Ultimately, if Rouse develops into the instinctive zone cover safety that he looks to be and Bigby gets some consistancy in his pass coverage responsibilities (even if he's just average), I could be happy with our young safeties. This is a position that usually takes a couple years to develop. Let's see how he progresses in the other parts of his game because he brings impact in the run game and with his hard hits. He might be the biggest impact player (not named Woodson or Kamp) on this team. Barnett is solid and more consistant, but Bigby crushes guys and forces fumbles.

[Sparkey]

I expect Grant to get a buck 50 today.

good call! 156

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I expect Grant to get a buck 50 today.

good call! 156

:thank: :thank: :D

[The Leaper]

He's just another backer, and hits harder than any of our other backers, in fact, maybe he should be converted to a backer, we could get a pretty good trade for Hawk, and just have Bigby put on about 15 more pounds of muscle. Hawks overrated anyways, and we'd probably get a 1st and 3rd round pick for him. Or a first rounder, and a better safety than Bigby.

Bigby is way too small to be a LB. He would get demolished by an OL or FB. Bigby and Collins can make big hits because they play in space where they can get momentum prior to a tackle. That is harder to do closer to the LOS. Making a big hit on a stationary receiver catching a curl is not the same as making a big hit on a RB who is adept at making you miss.

Bigby is a liability in coverage...Collins is merely adequate in coverage. I have no problem with Bigby being a safety if the other guy is a great coverage guy...provided he plays smart football and stops with the stupid penalties. However, I think having 2 safeties...neither of which are any better than adequate as coverage guys...is a problem in our defensive scheme that leaves the CBs out on an island quite a bit.

[Carolina_Packer]

I think that's the risk/reward of having a having a number of first year or second year starters. We need them to grow up now and not be too big of a liability, and that could be asking a lot for a player who is learning on the job. We have been rewarded by some of the risk taken by TT and MM (Ryan Grant), and have struggled with others. They could have gone out and gotten a stop-gap strong safety, but they wanted Bigby to play his way into the role. He was on the PS last year, and starting this year. That's a huge jump. I have no clue what his upside is, if he's peaked or if he can become even better, especially in coverage. That remains to be seen. But, I don't think that you can write a guy off with such a small sampling, given where he has come from. Why put him there and give him a chance in the first place unless he has upside? Then you just have a young stop-gap measure instead of an old one. There's something to be said for giving someone enough of a chance to grow and catch on. We've given more known/experienced guys more time in previous years (Mark Roman), so I think you have to have some patience with a first year starter like Bigby.

Hey, people keep talking about the name for a Ryan Grant fanclub. How about "Carry Grant"?

[The Leaper]

Why put him there and give him a chance in the first place unless he has upside? Then you just have a young stop-gap measure instead of an old one. There's something to be said for giving someone enough of a chance to grow and catch on. We've given more known/experienced guys more time in previous years (Mark Roman), so I think you have to have some patience with a first year starter like Bigby.

I can see what you are saying. I just feel like...and I've felt this way for a LONG time...the Packers seem to place too much value on PHYSICAL safeties. Ever since Butler retired, we've only had one safety with any coverage skills...and that was our BEST safety in that time, Sharper. He put up pretty good numbers...and he didn't play on too many defenses as good as our current one.

I can't recall any other safeties that were clearly great coverage guys. Roman? Well, he wasn't good at much of anything. Manuel? He certainly was more of an in-the-box guy than a coverage guy. Collins? Again, more of an in-the-box guy. Rouse? Bigby? Again, more physical than ball hawk.

In our scheme, ball-hawking safeties can make a ton of plays. Look at how many balls we've seen doink off the hands of Collins or Bigby this year. I think you have to have at least one great coverage safety back there if you are running the defensive scheme Green Bay does. That was why I desperately wanted Reggie Nelson in the draft last year...he was that coverage guy who could've made some big plays for our defense.

I have no problem with Collins or Bigby on their own...they are what they are. I just don't know why we feel the need to keep getting the same kind of guys...especially when it still hasn't really worked out great for us with our current approach.

[Carolina_Packer]

Do you think there is an abiding belief that they draft football players first and think, let's put you in our system and we'll make you xyz (insert attribute here)...a great cover guy, a ballhawk, etc.? Rouse may end up being a ballhawk, Leaper. His two interceptions so far were fairly athletic. Bigby's interception was pretty athletic, as was his return. Now if he could just stop thinking out there so much and just be able to have formation memory and just do it and use his abilities, that would be great. That's obviously where he needs to get to and still the biggest question mark with him. You see guys who aren't as physically gifted make up for it with smarts. Anticipation, ability to read formations, and know what is going to open up and where from a particular formation. All "muscle" memory (especially the brain muscle) that Bigby just doesn't have right now, but may at some point.

I would have liked to have Reggie Nelson too, but I guess you just have to take TT at his word that he believed that Harrell was the BPA when the Packers picked. Obviously not right at this moment in time comparing their careers to date, but if it's harder to find good talent at DT, and Harrell can become something special, then Harrell might have the last laugh vs. Reggie Nelson.