Good, Bad, Ugly, Harrell

[Partial]

Who did Good? Who did bad? Who did Ugly? Who did OK?

What did Harrell do?

[cpk1994]

He committed a personal foul. Otherwise nothing really.

[vince]

Harrell had 3 tackles and a tipped pass on the play he followed through and hit the qb in the head. It was one of those iffy calls that the qb's get these days - an inexperience error that is correctable.

He held his own against the run when he was in there. Better than Williams did.

[Farley Face]

I saw good push from Harrell today. He has the awareness of a typical rookie learning the NFL game but he showed good effort. Plus he didn't get hurt which is no given.

[vince]

Good
Ryan Grant was a beast.

Nick Barnett was all over the field and made an early big tackle on fourth down

Greg Jennings made another big play

Donald Lee was his consistent self and also had some great YAC on his TD.

Will Blackmon showed his burst and elusiveness on punts.

Bad
Crosby missed two make-able FG's and his kickoffs were short.

[The Leaper]

Harrell looked OK most of the times I was watching him. He held the point well against the run and was able to get some push to collapse the pocket. He's certainly not an All-Pro yet, but he showed why he was a first-round pick today. The kid has some tremendous physical ability. Hopefully he can some things together and stay healthy this offseason.

[]{ilr]3]

Was Jenkins called for the PF on Mcown on that return for a TD that was called back. They didnt give too many views of it but it looked like a clean shot to me. He was on defense and got on a block. Or does this go back to the protect the pretty QB BS the league is doing to protect Tom Brady's pretty face or the up and coming cant handle temps under 50deg Jamarcus Russel? :roll:

[The Leaper]

Will Blackmon showed his burst and elusiveness on punts.


Does Woodson see another punt return after today? I hope not.

[cpk1994]

{ilr]3]Was Jenkins called for the PF on Mcown on that return for a TD that was called back. They didnt give too many views of it but it looked like a clean shot to me. He was on defense and got on a block. Or does this go back to the protect the pretty QB BS the league is doing to protect Tom Brady's pretty face or the up and coming cant handle temps under 50deg Jamarcus Russel? :roll:The way it was explained, Jenkins was flagged for hitting the QB because he was away from the play. It wasn't that he hit him, it was where he hit him.

[The Leaper]

{ilr]3]Or does this go back to the protect the pretty QB BS the league is doing to protect Tom Brady's pretty face or the up and coming cant handle temps under 50deg Jamarcus Russel? :roll:

Ding, ding, ding!

Stupid rule. The guy was on the same side of the field as the interception return, so he could've made a play on the returner.

[b bulldog]

I think Hawk played well today.

[Lurker64]

Harrell looked like an NFL player today. He was moving forward more than he was moving backward, he held the point fairly well, and he was able to get some penetration.

He wasn't great, but he did a serviceable job at playing DT, which is probably more than a lot of us thought we'd see this season. He definitely plays the run better than Williams does.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Harrell looked good. Not spectacular, but good.

The Jenkins personal foul was a good one. No reason at all to go after a QB like that. I realize it's football and guys get hit, but the refs protect QBs and Jenkins should have known that.

As usual do the turnaround test. If Favre got blasted like that, we'd all be screaming bloody murder.

[Freak Out]

How did Woodson look? Any lingering effects that you could see? What about #4? I saw he only had to throw about 20 balls which is always nice.

[VegasPackFan]

Woodson was solid.. Even on a catch he gave up he was right there with tight coverage.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Collins played a real nice game today. Didn't get beat deep and came up huge on that 4th down run early on. Showed some real speed there.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Collins played a real nice game today. Didn't get beat deep and came up huge on that 4th down run early on. Showed some real speed there.

He also made the play on Bigby's interception. Terrific play there. He made about 3 or 4 outstanding plays. Bigby blitzed more and was effective. Harrell was solid.

As for Crosby, I'm not sure a 52 yarder into the wind at Lambeau in December is that makeable. If it is, any attempt is makeable. I thought that was a poor decision by McCarthy there.

[BallHawk]

As for Crosby, I'm not sure a 52 yarder into the wind at Lambeau in December is that makeable. If it is, any attempt is makeable. I thought that was a poor decision by McCarthy there.

Agreed. That'd be a questionable playcall if you had Robbie Gould as your kicker, yet alone a rookie.

[Joemailman]

Collins played a real nice game today. Didn't get beat deep and came up huge on that 4th down run early on. Showed some real speed there.

That was an unbelievable play. Looked like Hawk was going to get the tackle, and then Collins came flying into the picture. I think next year a safety combo of Collins and Rouse could be special.

[pbmax]

Harrell looked fine, made a nice play moving down the line to his left, squeezing the hole and hitting the RB. Went for four, but as there was space, if he doesn't get there, the RB could cut and go long.

I saw him walk the guard backward during one rush. Needs to be on the field more so he can learn how to be consistent.

Unnecessary roughness is a true judgment call. If Jenkins was for Hochuli's crew, I don't know how Sapp's Clifton hit wasn't. Unless its just a protect the QB thing.

[MJZiggy]

I thought they said today that the rule got tweaked after Sapp hit Clifton...

[The Leaper]

As for Crosby, I'm not sure a 52 yarder into the wind at Lambeau in December is that makeable. If it is, any attempt is makeable. I thought that was a poor decision by McCarthy there.

I don't think it was a poor decision. Crosby has the leg to get it there...and had enough distance on that kick and only missed by a couple of feet.

I agree that is certainly wasn't a given...maybe Crosby hits that kick 4 out of 10 times. However, I think it was worth taking the chance rather than try to convert a 4th down that I think had 3 or 4 yards left. The chances of converting that aren't much better than 4 out of 10 either...and you don't get 3 points for it.

[The Leaper]

The Jenkins personal foul was a good one. No reason at all to go after a QB like that. I realize it's football and guys get hit, but the refs protect QBs and Jenkins should have known that.

I agree...but it is still a stupid rule. The last time I checked, the QB was still a football player. If they throw an INT, and are wandering around in the general vicinity of a runback in la-la land, they deserve to get blasted.

Did Jenkins give him a good lick? Yeah. It did not seem over-the-top though. Jenkins could've laid the kid out for 12 months like Sapp did to Clifton if he had wanted to. That was where I took issue with the Sapp hit...he was clearly looking to hurt Clifton by launching through him. I didn't see that in the Jenkins block. He leveled the guy, but he didn't drive through him in a way that would lead to a major injury.

However, you are correct that with the current rules, the defensive guys have to know the QB is virtually off-limits after an INT in terms of knocking them to the ground.

[chain_gang]

As for Crosby, I'm not sure a 52 yarder into the wind at Lambeau in December is that makeable. If it is, any attempt is makeable. I thought that was a poor decision by McCarthy there.

I don't think it was a poor decision. Crosby has the leg to get it there...and had enough distance on that kick and only missed by a couple of feet.

I agree that is certainly wasn't a given...maybe Crosby hits that kick 4 out of 10 times. However, I think it was worth taking the chance rather than try to convert a 4th down that I think had 3 or 4 yards left. The chances of converting that aren't much better than 4 out of 10 either...and you don't get 3 points for it.


I agree take a chance on a long field goal. We were already up big, Oakland hadn't done much on O all day, and it gives our rookie kicker some experience trying to boot a long fg in the cold, during game situations to prepare him for later down the road, when we may need one. Only way he gets used to kicking in lambeau is by doing it.

Question?
Are they doing like Crosby's Fg kicking outside during the week, or is he kicking inside? I know longwell used to practice Fg's outside once the weather turned cold. If they're not, maybe they should, and they kickoffs also.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I just felt that the FG wasn't needed. Crosby had missed a makeable FG earlier, but rebounded and made his second. I felt there was a good chance he'd miss. Confidence in a kicker is fragile. I thought it'd be better to leave him with good vibes after his make. Now, he has to wonder why he missed 2 of 3--even though both were long kicks in tough conditions.

[The Leaper]

Now, he has to wonder why he missed 2 of 3--even though both were long kicks in tough conditions.

He won't question the second miss. He hit the ball well on that one...just missed by a couple feet on a 52 yarder. Outdoors, in 20 degree weather, into the wind...missing by a couple feet from 52 isn't going to shake your confidence if you are worth a damn.

The first miss was ugly. He needed to make another kick into the wind just to get that first one off his mind. The second one, even if missed, will give Crosby confidence that he has plenty of leg and doesn't need to overkick it.

[Merlin]

I didn't see anything out of Harrell today that made me go "wow". He looked average to below average. I would expect a lot more from a #1 pick who has basically had all season to learn and get stronger (2 seasons to get stronger). I am seeing a Jamal Reynold's type of player right now. Looks good for a few snaps, then looks below average. And then, gets injured. The only blessing is that Harrell didn't get injured. But he has also pretty much been injured the past two years.

I will give him another season to get it together but I am not holding my breath on this one.

[Partial]

2 seasons to get stronger?!??!??

What on earth are you talking about? He couldn't lift until right before the combine and even then he was held out by McCarthy out of off-season lifting workouts.

[Zool]

2 seasons to get stronger?!??!??

What on earth are you talking about? He couldn't lift until right before the combine and even then he was held out by McCarthy out of off-season lifting workouts.

P, just let it go man. Stop playing the game, unless you like the game. Then by all means keep going. Keeps the forum interesting.

[Merlin]

I wish I cared enough to bring up the "Rayner is horrible" threads from last season after he missed some FG's ugly in the cold. I guarantee what was said about him was way worse then what has been said about Crosby to this point.

And that in a nutshell is the only issue I have with the posters here. They get all high and mighty with their drivel and then when something like this happens, not a one of them will step up and say "I was wrong".

Face it, Crosby had almost no wind and missed one FG horribly and then on a kickoff from the 45, he dropped the ball on what? The 5 yard line? Why wasn't the ball kicked into the stands?

He didn't look good yesterday (and not the first game he didn't look good either) and for those of you who are sitting there going "but but but but" and were all over Rayner for the same thing, it's time to grow up.

Or are you going to go back to the first game of the season and his game winning field goal and hang onto that? It doesn't matter the excuse you want to pull out of your ass, these problems are eerily familiar...

[Merlin]

2 seasons to get stronger?!??!??

What on earth are you talking about? He couldn't lift until right before the combine and even then he was held out by McCarthy out of off-season lifting workouts.

Yeah his legs were broken right? His other arm didn't work right? He couldn't run right?

Use your head for something besides a hat rack.

[Merlin]

2 seasons to get stronger?!??!??

What on earth are you talking about? He couldn't lift until right before the combine and even then he was held out by McCarthy out of off-season lifting workouts.

P, just let it go man. Stop playing the game, unless you like the game. Then by all means keep going. Keeps the forum interesting.

I wish my shit didn't stink like yours. Oh wait , yours does. Nice to see you think you know everything. I think I rest my case on the "part of the problem" when it comes to you.

[pbmax]

If walking a pro guard backward doesn't make you at least go "Nice above average job" then I am not sure what you expect. With that move alone and then moving down to line to squeeze a hole against a good running team, Harrell might have, in 15 snaps, showed more than Jamal Reynolds did in 4 years.

Doesn't mean he can do it consistently, but he can do it. Time will tell.


I didn't see anything out of Harrell today that made me go "wow". He looked average to below average. I would expect a lot more from a #1 pick who has basically had all season to learn and get stronger (2 seasons to get stronger). I am seeing a Jamal Reynold's type of player right now. Looks good for a few snaps, then looks below average. And then, gets injured. The only blessing is that Harrell didn't get injured. But he has also pretty much been injured the past two years.

I will give him another season to get it together but I am not holding my breath on this one.

[Zool]

2 seasons to get stronger?!??!??

What on earth are you talking about? He couldn't lift until right before the combine and even then he was held out by McCarthy out of off-season lifting workouts.

P, just let it go man. Stop playing the game, unless you like the game. Then by all means keep going. Keeps the forum interesting.

I wish my shit didn't stink like yours. Oh wait , yours does. Nice to see you think you know everything. I think I rest my case on the "part of the problem" when it comes to you.

If you're part of the 'solution', God help us all.

[retailguy]

Face it, Crosby had almost no wind and missed one FG horribly and then on a kickoff from the 45, he dropped the ball on what? The 5 yard line? Why wasn't the ball kicked into the stands?



No wind? :shock:

I was at the game in row 1 on the home side. My 9 year old was with me. Should I post the "wind burn" pics of me and her? In the second quarter I almost took her back to the car because she was so cold from the wind hitting her in the face. Wind was very deceptive in lambeau yesterday... Trust me. I was there.

He totally blew the 1st field goal before half time. Couple of the kicks were short, otherwise he had a good day.

Merlin, sometimes you're just out to lunch. Today is one of those days.

[Partial]

2 seasons to get stronger?!??!??

What on earth are you talking about? He couldn't lift until right before the combine and even then he was held out by McCarthy out of off-season lifting workouts.

Yeah his legs were broken right? His other arm didn't work right? He couldn't run right?

Use your head for something besides a hat rack.

Have you ever lifted weights? You do understand the concept of compound movements, etc that require your whole body to do them, right?

Football lifts are squats, deads, cleans. Those movements should be the focus of any successful lifting routine because they focus on big movements that require the largest muscles in your body. Try dead lifting (the movement that makes your entire body big and strong) with one arm. Not possible. Try doing a clean. Hell, for how big these guys are and how much they're lifting it wouldn't necessarily be safe to even do a squat with one bad arm. In addition to that, how can you do any presses, or rows to make your body grow?!? You need to work all of your muscles if you want to get big because it increases your testosterone. That is why there are so many scrawny guys at the gym who only lift with their upper body.

Naturally, immediately after you have surgery you return to the weight room too. The muscle doesn't need any time to actually heal before you strengthen it. Clearly the way to fix a torn muscle is to tear more muscle fibers. :crazy:

[MJZiggy]

I wish I cared enough to bring up the "Rayner is horrible" threads from last season after he missed some FG's ugly in the cold. I guarantee what was said about him was way worse then what has been said about Crosby to this point.

And that in a nutshell is the only issue I have with the posters here. They get all high and mighty with their drivel and then when something like this happens, not a one of them will step up and say "I was wrong".

Face it, Crosby had almost no wind and missed one FG horribly and then on a kickoff from the 45, he dropped the ball on what? The 5 yard line? Why wasn't the ball kicked into the stands?

He didn't look good yesterday (and not the first game he didn't look good either) and for those of you who are sitting there going "but but but but" and were all over Rayner for the same thing, it's time to grow up.

Or are you going to go back to the first game of the season and his game winning field goal and hang onto that? It doesn't matter the excuse you want to pull out of your ass, these problems are eerily familiar...

Don't hand me "but, but, but" crap. Mason Crosby is tied as the leading scorer in the NFL. I was not all over Rayner about anything. I do think he missed too many late in the season, but I don't now, nor did I ever, think that choosing Crosby was a mistake. It was a choice that had to be made. It was made and if TT changes his mind, Rayner is unemployed. I don't see TT changing his mind. Time to get over it.

[The Leaper]

I didn't see anything out of Harrell today that made me go "wow". He looked average to below average. I would expect a lot more from a #1 pick who has basically had all season to learn and get stronger (2 seasons to get stronger).

All season? The guy has been injured and on the sidelines most of the season. He certainly did not look below average, either. He was reliable at holding the point for the most part when I was looking at him, and he made a couple of nice plays...although the penalty took away one of them.

I will go on record to say that I believe Harrell is going to be a guy who takes a big step forward this offseason. He's not at all like Reynolds...a one-trick pony who was undersized for the next level. Harrell has the physical stature and ability of an NFL DT. He should be much more effective next year if he follows the coaching advice he receives this offseason.

[The Leaper]

I wish I cared enough to bring up the "Rayner is horrible" threads from last season after he missed some FG's ugly in the cold. I guarantee what was said about him was way worse then what has been said about Crosby to this point.

Do you even remember those kicks from last year Merlin? Rayner wasn't missing 45 or 50 yarders...he was missing 30 yarders.

He missed a 28 yarder against the Seahawks.
He missed a 34 and 38 yarder against the Vikings.
He missed a 32 yarder against the Bears.

There is a big difference IMO between missing a 45+ yard field goal and a 28 or 32 or 34 yard field goal. A HUGE difference.

Crosby inside of 40 yards this year is 15 of 16.

That is why the outcry isn't as loud, Merlin. Rayner missed kicks that NFL kickers SHOULD make 90%+ of the time. Perhaps you should do a little more digging into the cause of these issues rather than speculate about things you clearly have no real knowledge of.

[shammye06]

Just a question for the football minds out there. Do you think Harrell could eventually become like Albert Haynesworth for the Titans? I really didn't hear too much about him prior to this year and now he is an awesome defensive tackle. Just wondering.

[woodbuck27]

Good
Ryan Grant was a beast.

Nick Barnett was all over the field and made an early big tackle on fourth down

Greg Jennings made another big play

Donald Lee was his consistent self and also had some great YAC on his TD.

Will Blackmon showed his burst and elusiveness on punts.

Bad
Crosby missed two make-able FG's and his kickoffs were short.

Great to see Nick Barnett get back on track with a solid game at the Mary. As in ' HOLY Mary we need him to play very well '.

I'm really impressed with WR Greg Jennings

(11 TD's). Just super !!

Who in here would have predicted that performance fr. our sophmore WR?

Noone? :)

Jennings is playing relaxed and looks like a seasoned Vet with leadership to boot.

Donald Driver is playing a huge role in Greg Jennings showing Stat wise. What a solid team player D is. A great Packer ranking up there as a TOP ALL TIME Packer WR now.

YUP !

TE Donald Lee has been all we could have hoped for. A real stop gap option and those yards after the catch we have hungered for fr. our TE.

and of course:

FAVRE. Some great results fr. this LEGEND this season and another good outing. Rebounding after a down outing in the previous game.

All he needs through the air VS St. Louis is 184 yards to surpass Dan Marino as the ALL TIME LEADER in Yard's passing.

I never expected that Favre would strike that one from the record books looking back 4-6 season's ago.

Well here he is, despite all the BS and lack of obvious support he's received for years.

FAVRE just gets better and just gets it done.

Just get out of his way. :)

Some people in here can't wait till he's gone.

How sick is that?

PACKERS FOREVER!

[The Leaper]

Just a question for the football minds out there. Do you think Harrell could eventually become like Albert Haynesworth for the Titans? I really didn't hear too much about him prior to this year and now he is an awesome defensive tackle. Just wondering.

I don't think Harrell has the ability of Haynesworth, although many associated with the Vols do feel Harrell was worthy of comparison to Haynesworth...even if he wasn't quite as good.

Tennessee has produced a lot of great talent at DT...really the SEC in general. Since 1995, 11 DTs have been taken in the first 2 rounds from SEC schools. Only 3 were failures, while the other 8 are all at least capable starters in the league...and 3 or 4 are/were legitimate Pro Bowl caliber talent at some point.

Harrell is a huge man who is only going to get better as he gets accustomed to the NFL and what he needs to do to succeed. The jump from college to the NFL is big for any position, but probably more so at DT than any other position other than QB. These guys could simply rely on their athleticism alone in college most of the time. In the NFL, they need to refine their techniques and learn to play fundamentally sound football, because the OL players in the NFL are so much stronger and smarter than what they see in college.

[The Leaper]

I'm really impressed with WR Greg Jennings


I am as well...but the kid does need to work on his hands this offseason. He still drops way too many catchable balls.

Other than that, he's been incredible this year. Driver and Jennings are quite possibly the 2 most elusive WRs in the NFL. They really rack up yards after the catch, mostly from sheer athleticism.

[SkinBasket]

I will give him another season to get it together but I am not holding my breath on this one.

Or what? You'll send him a strongly worded, poorly written letter laden with the same retarded idiocy you post here? I'm sure he cares. Just as much as we do.

[Bossman641]

Some people in here can't wait till he's gone.

How sick is that?

Who are these people?

Yea, some people actually have the balls to criticize him. Some also said he was out of line with his wavering back and forth on retirement.

I don't think anyone in here is sitting in a corner counting down the days til Favre is gone.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Just a question for the football minds out there. Do you think Harrell could eventually become like Albert Haynesworth for the Titans? I really didn't hear too much about him prior to this year and now he is an awesome defensive tackle. Just wondering.

I don't think it would be shocking. It took Haynesworth at least 3 years to become a good player, and he wasn't injured his rookie year. I would just about end the anti-Thompson arguments. He looks VERY smart not taking the trade offer from Cleveland. He looks VERY smart for letting Ahman walk. The only thing he doesn't look smart about is Moss and Harrell, and if people were fair, they'd admit that there's no guarantee that Moss would have worked out in Green Bay.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I wish I cared enough to bring up the "Rayner is horrible" threads from last season after he missed some FG's ugly in the cold. I guarantee what was said about him was way worse then what has been said about Crosby to this point.

Do you even remember those kicks from last year Merlin? Rayner wasn't missing 45 or 50 yarders...he was missing 30 yarders.

He missed a 28 yarder against the Seahawks.
He missed a 34 and 38 yarder against the Vikings.
He missed a 32 yarder against the Bears.

There is a big difference IMO between missing a 45+ yard field goal and a 28 or 32 or 34 yard field goal. A HUGE difference.

Crosby inside of 40 yards this year is 15 of 16.

That is why the outcry isn't as loud, Merlin. Rayner missed kicks that NFL kickers SHOULD make 90%+ of the time. Perhaps you should do a little more digging into the cause of these issues rather than speculate about things you clearly have no real knowledge of.

Look, I did a detailed analysis of Rayner vs. Crosby. It wasn't even close.

But, it was WAY to complicated for Merlin to comprehend..or it is just a case of him wanting to see the world as he chooses.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I will give him another season to get it together but I am not holding my breath on this one.

Or what? You'll send him a strongly worded, poorly written letter laden with the same retarded idiocy you post here? I'm sure he cares. Just as much as we do.

LEGITIMATE ROTFL.

[FritzDontBlitz]

{ilr]3]Was Jenkins called for the PF on Mcown on that return for a TD that was called back. They didnt give too many views of it but it looked like a clean shot to me. He was on defense and got on a block. Or does this go back to the protect the pretty QB BS the league is doing to protect Tom Brady's pretty face or the up and coming cant handle temps under 50deg Jamarcus Russel? :roll:The way it was explained, Jenkins was flagged for hitting the QB because he was away from the play. It wasn't that he hit him, it was where he hit him.

He wasn't away from the play, he was within 10 yards of where Bigby was passing by AND he turned toward Bigby like he was about to pursue him.

[FritzDontBlitz]

Harrell looked good. Not spectacular, but good.

The Jenkins personal foul was a good one. No reason at all to go after a QB like that. I realize it's football and guys get hit, but the refs protect QBs and Jenkins should have known that.

As usual do the turnaround test. If Favre got blasted like that, we'd all be screaming bloody murder.

Please. Favre would've made the tackle.

Besides, when Brett takes himself out of a play he runs out of bounds, NOT upfield toward the action like McCown did. It was a bullshit call.

[KYPack]

Just a question for the football minds out there. Do you think Harrell could eventually become like Albert Haynesworth for the Titans? I really didn't hear too much about him prior to this year and now he is an awesome defensive tackle. Just wondering.

I don't think Harrell has the ability of Haynesworth, although many associated with the Vols do feel Harrell was worthy of comparison to Haynesworth...even if he wasn't quite as good.

Tennessee has produced a lot of great talent at DT...really the SEC in general. Since 1995, 11 DTs have been taken in the first 2 rounds from SEC schools. Only 3 were failures, while the other 8 are all at least capable starters in the league...and 3 or 4 are/were legitimate Pro Bowl caliber talent at some point.

Harrell is a huge man who is only going to get better as he gets accustomed to the NFL and what he needs to do to succeed. The jump from college to the NFL is big for any position, but probably more so at DT than any other position other than QB. These guys could simply rely on their athleticism alone in college most of the time. In the NFL, they need to refine their techniques and learn to play fundamentally sound football, because the OL players in the NFL are so much stronger and smarter than what they see in college.

You got it, Leap.

The criticism of Harrell on this Forum seems to be by those posters who wanted somebody else drafted @ #1.

They either don't watch Harrell play or they don't know what they are looking at.

This is a good kid. He's strong, quick, with good feet and long arms. He will get way better after a year in an NFL weight room & the coaches teaching him all the tricks. Baring injury, he could be a big thing for us in the future.

[run pMc]

I didn't watch Harrell as much as I meant to, but I heard his name called a few times and it looked like he was active and getting some push. For a rookie with relatively few snaps under his belt, not bad.

As for drafting Harrell -- I think GB knew this season would be something of a growing season for him, coming off the injury. The kid has an NFL DT-size body with good athleticism, plus a history of being a hard worker who will play hurt. With the injuries to the DL (Cole, Jolly, KGB, Jenkins) and C.Williams' likely departure, I have no problem with TT drafting him. It's way too early to put him in the same category as Jamal Reynolds, and I wouldn't give up on him unless he shows zilch after 3 seasons.

I'm with those who think he'll make a big jump next year, once he's had a healthy offseason to get stronger and learn.

As for Crosby, seems like another good pick...he's among the leaders in scoring as a rookie K. I'm going to guess that over the last 10 years there haven't been many rookies that became a NFL team's K, much less become a scoring leader.
His kickoffs are better than Longwell's and his accuracy is better than the now-unemployed Rayner. Long-term, he's (IMO) an upgrade over either one. I've been disappointed and concerned about his misses lately, but they seem to be from 40+ yds out. He needs to figure out how to kick in Lambeau, but I don't see him lacking confidence or leg strength. I think he'll only get better, but I'd hate to see GB lose a close game in Jan because of a missed FG.
As for the 50+ yard miss vs. OAK, my first thought was M3 wanted to test him under those conditions. A 50 yarder in good conditions is no gimme, much less at Lambeau in Dec. I would have felt better had he made it, but I think he'll learn from it.

[PackerBlues]

The Bad: ]{ilr]3 stealin my damned avatar :evil: . Otherwise, at 11-2, its all Good!!! :P

[PackerBlues]

{ilr]3]Was Jenkins called for the PF on Mcown on that return for a TD that was called back. They didnt give too many views of it but it looked like a clean shot to me. He was on defense and got on a block. Or does this go back to the protect the pretty QB BS the league is doing to protect Tom Brady's pretty face or the up and coming cant handle temps under 50deg Jamarcus Russel? :roll: If that hit had been against Favre, I would have been pissed if no flag had been thrown. Since it was against the opposing QB......screw him, lol.

Reminded me of the Sapp hit on Clifton though, in the sense that Mcown didnt see it coming.

[Harlan Huckleby]

{ilr]3]Was Jenkins called for the PF on Mcown on that return for a TD that was called back. They didnt give too many views of it but it looked like a clean shot to me. He was on defense and got on a block. Or does this go back to the protect the pretty QB BS the league is doing to protect Tom Brady's pretty face or the up and coming cant handle temps under 50deg Jamarcus Russel? :roll: If that hit had been against Favre, I would have been pissed if no flag had been thrown. Since it was against the opposing QB......screw him, lol.

Reminded me of the Sapp hit on Clifton though, in the sense that Mcown didnt see it coming.

I thought about the Sapp hit, but that was more of a violent, blindside shot. IT was dirty and borderline legal.
Jenkins blocked McCown in the chest.

the important detail to note is that McCown was not a QB. He was one of 11 defenders attempting to tackle on an interception return.

If Jenkins had made that block on any other player, it would not have drawn any attention, it really wasn't particularly brutal, certainly not even close to being dirty.

I think if it is illegal to block QBs after an interception, it should be illegal for QBs to make tackles.

[The Leaper]

I think if it is illegal to block QBs after an interception, it should be illegal for QBs to make tackles.

I agree. I'm not sure where it states in the rule book of the NFL that a defensive player can't block an offensive player...regardless of position...on an INT return.

Sapp's hit on Clifton was excessive...he launched THROUGH Clifton.

Jenkins just shoved the guy in the chest. He did not launch through him. It is ridiculous that it drew a flag, especially when the guy was turning TOWARD the player returning the ball when he was blocked.