If Driver is #1, #2 is...???

[AtlPackFan]

With all the talk about Driver and his being the #1 receiver going into the season, I was just wondering who you all thought was #2? Fergie? Gardner? Jennings? Who is #3?

[billy_oliver880]

With all the talk about Driver and his being the #1 receiver going into the season, I was just wondering who you all thought was #2? Fergie? Gardner? Jennings? Who is #3?

I think gardner will take that spot.

[hurleyfan]

With all the talk about Driver and his being the #1 receiver going into the season, I was just wondering who you all thought was #2? Fergie? Gardner? Jennings? Who is #3?
Gardner steps up, with Boerighter(sp) a pleasant # 3 surprise!

[Joemailman]

Gardner is the like ly #2. Fergy and Jennings will likely battle for #3, with Fergy winning early. Jennings should be more of a factor as the season progresses.

[RashanGary]

I know Rookies don't usually make big impacts but I don't like Gardner at all and we all know what Fergi is/isn't capable of.

I'm gonna say Fergi and as teh season progresses maybe it will be Jennings.

[esoxx]

Ferguson's injured every year in one way or the other. If the guy could stay healthy once he could be semi-productive. I think Gardner, with his size, stands a good chance at #2. The WR position worries me.

[b bulldog]

Gardner

[RashanGary]

I don't like Garner at all.

[Joemailman]

Gardner's career has gone downhill the last couple of years, but he has shown the ability to be productive over an entire season. He is 28 years old, an age when most players should be in their prime. He has a great opportunity to resurrect his career.

[AtlPackFan]

How many receiver's do they keep? Is it 4 or 5? If it is 4, then one of Fergie, Boegriter(sp) or Gardner is gone, right? No way they cut Jennings.

[Joemailman]

At least 5, maybe 6. Driver, Gardner, Jennings and Fergy are probably locks. That leaves Boerichter, Chad Lucas and Bookman fighting for 1 or 2 spots.

[SD GB fan]

dun forget that they will probably keep a WR on practice squad, probably one of the younger, less developed WRs like bookman, martin, or lucas

and there is also rodgers the other draft pick. they will probably keep him for special teams

WR:
driver
gardner
jennings
rodgers
ferguson
boegriter


those are the leading WRs right now. one of the younger WRs cud push for a spot, which means boegriter might be cut. i wudnt be surprised if boegriter gets cut tho. thats why TT only signed him to an one year deal so he can create competition during training camp and help younger players develop.

[Chubbyhubby]

At least 5, maybe 6. Driver, Gardner, Jennings and Fergy are probably locks. That leaves Boerichter, Chad Lucas and Bookman fighting for 1 or 2 spots.

I would agree with youi on that one. for the above mentioned wideouts. Jennings have alot of promise,

The Packers improved their special teams alot through the draft. Picking 3 potential studs for that roll.

I can see Bookman and Chad Lucas on the Practice Squad this year.

[Bretsky]

Gardner has to be #2; what they need for a #2 is a guy with the strength to beat the jam and catch the slant or beat a #2 CB man to man. Groom Jennings to get in there asap. Those 3 need to be reliable for this offense.
Boerighter might add some nice deep opportunities and we know Favre will give him the chances to make plays.

Let Fergy the Fraud WR do the only thing he can do; play special teams.

[BF4MVP]

I predict Fergie. We'll see what happens.

[Bretsky]

I predict Fergie. We'll see what happens.


You are a glutton for punishment. If a WR doesn't beat out Robert Ferguson then our WR'ing cast will have failed. We've made the same mistakes over and over and over and over again with both David Martin and Robert Ferguson. Unrealized potential.

[Iron Mike]

Charles Woodson :cool:

[chain_gang]

I've been debating on this since the draft ended. I've finally made a rational decision and I'm going to stick with it. Gardner needs more time in the offense to make an impact from at starting standpoint. Also he's pretty maxed out on what you're going to get from him. Ferguson, however knows the offense the best, but is too injury prone and to put it bluntly just flat out sucks as a starting wideout. Jennings, however, is an intriguing prospect. I just think this guy has some skill to be the best rookie wideout this year. Think about it every year the draft yields a second round wideout that makes an impact their rookie year. Last year was Reggie Brown from Philly, year before Keary Colbert from Carolina, before that Anquan Boldin Arizona, and so on. Greg Jennings has more talent than Gardner and Ferguson. I think jennings will be ready to make an impact this year. In the amount of 58 recs. for 790 yds. and 6 Tds.


Here are the stats of the last three successful second round picks. Seems the odds are about 1 in 3 in having an impact in your first year as a rookie wideout since 2003.

Anquan Boldin
2003 Arizona Cardinals 101 1377 13.6 71 8

Keary Colbert
2004 Carolina Panthers 47 754 16.0 63 5

Reggie Brown

2005 Philadephia Eagles 43 571 13.3 56 4

Greg Jennings

2006 Green Bay Packers ?? ??? ??.? ?? ?



Guess we'll find out soon enough.

[GrnBay007]

Actually NOT soon enough. I'm ready to watch the Packers now!! :D

[Patler]

I think it is debatable whether Ferguson's "experience" will provide any advantage at all over other NFL vets like Gardner and Boerigter. When you start listing players, Ferguson has his work cut out for him to play a significant role on this team. He may have used up his chances, and someone new may be given the chance.

Driver, Gardner, Jennings - locks to make the team, absent injury.
Boerigter, Rodgers - very likely to make the team.

That leaves Ferguson in a battle with Lucas and one or more FA for maybe one spot, or maybe no spot at all..

[SD GB fan]

i actually think that ferguson is in a safer position than boegriter for a few reasons.

1. his last year of his contract anyways
2. cutting him now wud result in a cap hit (anyone know the number?)
3. TT does not hold his temporary free agent signings with much regard as seen last year (earl little, arturo freeman, that one o lineman, ray thompson). he signed boegriter to a one year offer without much guaranteed money, mainly just to provide competition.

but if it turns out that ferugson sux again and boegriter can make a solid #3 or even #2 then ferguson is probably out.

[RashanGary]

I completely agree. I think Ferg will be around for at least one more year. If both Jennings and Rodger turn into players he will be at a bigger risk next year.

[GrnBay007]

i actually think that ferguson is in a safer position than boegriter for a few reasons.


2. cutting him now wud result in a cap hit (anyone know the number?)


Patler would if he was here. :cry:

[SD GB fan]

hey on the bright side..maybe ferg will finally realize that favre's career is on the ending side. and he will finally become a football player, putting up a walker-like-2004-season before favre goes back to ol' miss for good.

wishful thinking of course :wink: but who knows

[Patler]

hey on the bright side..maybe ferg will finally realize that favre's career is on the ending side. and he will finally become a football player, putting up a walker-like-2004-season before favre goes back to ol' miss for good.

wishful thinking of course :wink: but who knows

There is no big cap hit if Ferguson is cut. He has 3 years remaining on his contract, with his pro-rated signing bonus at $700,000 per year. His salary for 2006 is $1.4 million. He has an additional bonus this year of another $700,000 but it is not clear when it is due, it looks like it could be June 1. The various scenarious look to be:

If he stays he counts $2.8 million against the cap.
Cut before June 1, he counts at least $2.1, maybe $2.8 if the other bonus is due.
Cut after June 1, either $700,000 or $1.4 million this year, and $1.4 million next year.

[GrnBay007]

There is no big cap hit if Ferguson is cut. He has 3 years remaining on his contract, with his pro-rated signing bonus at $700,000 per year. His salary for 2006 is $1.4 million. He has an additional bonus this year of another $700,000 but it is not clear when it is due, it looks like it could be June 1. The various scenarious look to be:

If he stays he counts $2.8 million against the cap.
Cut before June 1, he counts at least $2.1, maybe $2.8 if the other bonus is due.
Cut after June 1, either $700,000 or $1.4 million this year, and $1.4 million next year.

Ever get the feeling some posters are put under pressure to produce? I know I'M not guilty (aka :cry: ) of requesting this. U rock Shamler! .....oops, I mean Shamrockfan..

[Fritz]

The problem for Jennings is that he's a rook; ain't no way he's going to be a starting WR this year. Driver didn't do it. Walker didn't do it. Freeman didn't do it. It's too difficult of a position.

So I'll go with Gardner. He's got the size to run that slant over the middle. Fergy will be fighting for a spot on this team; if he makes it he'll be the #3 guy and special teams ace. And he'd better like it.

I used to be captain of the Fergy fan club. But after last year's Carolina game in which he allowed a little DB to strip the ball out of his arms despite Fergy having position, I have resigned. Now he is, as the anonymous scouts like to say, "just a guy."

[wist43]

The Packers don't have a #1... Driver is a #2, and everybody else is a 3 or 4.

Jennings will eventually turn out to be a good #2, but it's unrealistic to think that he'll play to that level as a rookie.

[RashanGary]

Name the #1's in the league Wist.

[The Leaper]

My honest assessment of NFL WRs better than Driver?

Elite (annual All-Pro)
Chad Johnson
Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Marvin Harrison
Steve Smith

Blue Chip (occasional All-Pro)
Torry Holt
Plaxico Burress
Joe Horn
Rod Smith
Hines Ward

Tainted Blue Chip (occasional All-Pros, but age/injury issues)
Javon Walker
Eric Moulds
Issac Bruce
Joey Galloway

Potential Blue Chip (potential All-Pro talent)
Larry Fitzgerald
Anquan Bolden
Andre Johnson
Roy Williams
Chris Chambers
Santana Moss

Those are 20 guys who I believe have more talent than Driver...and could put up numbers consistently better than Driver if playing in the same offense with the same QB over the long term.

Personally, I consider Driver to be very close to Reggie Wayne in terms of ability...both guys have put up better stats than they would otherwise due to offenses that possessed several elite offensive talents to help. They are blue chip players when you place them with Brett Favre and Peyton Manning. Hell, Bill Schroeder was almost blue chip talent with Brett Favre throwing him the ball.

That said...I can't think of too many other players I would rather have on my team than Driver (just in terms of TALENT, not character/presence) outside of the 20 I listed above. Any other names I am missing off the top of my head???

[HarveyWallbangers]

Elite (annual All-Pro)
Chad Johnson
Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Marvin Harrison
Steve Smith

I can't quibble with those


Blue Chip (occasional All-Pro)
Torry Holt
Plaxico Burress
Joe Horn
Rod Smith
Hines Ward

I believe Driver is as good as Horn and Smith at this stage in their careers. Both are around 35. I'm also not a big fan of Burress. He's had 1 or 2 good years. I wouldn't trade Driver for him.


Tainted Blue Chip (occasional All-Pros, but age/injury issues)
Javon Walker
Eric Moulds
Issac Bruce
Joey Galloway

Galloway had a great rebound last year, but I think Driver is as good. Galloway is much older. Moulds is done. Bruce is not the same receiver he was.


Potential Blue Chip (potential All-Pro talent)
Larry Fitzgerald
Anquan Bolden
Andre Johnson
Roy Williams
Chris Chambers
Santana Moss

I wouldn't take Williams over Driver right now. Moss is iffy. A few of these guys (Boldin, Johnson, Fitzgerald) are already blue chip. Of the 20 you mentioned, I think only 12 of them are clearly better than Driver. That puts Driver in the top half of starting #1 receivers in the league. Yes, he's a legit #1.

[RashanGary]

Great list Leaper.

Driver has been more productive, but something has to be said for potential.

Driver has to be in the top 32. Considering there are 32 teams in the league, a #1 WR would be one of the top 32.

Looking at that list puts it in perspective. Production wise, Driver is a really good #1. Talent wise he is a lower level #1. Average it out and he's an average #1 WR. Not a bluechipper, but more productive than most.

[Bretsky]

The Packers don't have a #1... Driver is a #2, and everybody else is a 3 or 4.

Jennings will eventually turn out to be a good #2, but it's unrealistic to think that he'll play to that level as a rookie.

I respect the view that DD is not a #1, but I will contest it. I've said all along DD is the ideal #2 and an average #1.

I'd challenge you to go through the #1 WR of every team and then list how many are better than Driver. I'd bet Donald Driver would be rated in the 18-25 range of #1 WR's, and to me that makes him a legit #1 WR.

[BooHoo]

The Packers don't have a #1... Driver is a #2, and everybody else is a 3 or 4.

Jennings will eventually turn out to be a good #2, but it's unrealistic to think that he'll play to that level as a rookie.

what he said, except Jennings may be a very, very good #2.

[wist43]

My honest assessment of NFL WRs better than Driver?

Elite (annual All-Pro)
Chad Johnson
Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Marvin Harrison
Steve Smith

Blue Chip (occasional All-Pro)
Torry Holt
Plaxico Burress
Joe Horn
Rod Smith
Hines Ward

Tainted Blue Chip (occasional All-Pros, but age/injury issues)
Javon Walker
Eric Moulds
Issac Bruce
Joey Galloway

Potential Blue Chip (potential All-Pro talent)
Larry Fitzgerald
Anquan Bolden
Andre Johnson
Roy Williams
Chris Chambers
Santana Moss

Those are 20 guys who I believe have more talent than Driver...and could put up numbers consistently better than Driver if playing in the same offense with the same QB over the long term.

Personally, I consider Driver to be very close to Reggie Wayne in terms of ability...both guys have put up better stats than they would otherwise due to offenses that possessed several elite offensive talents to help. They are blue chip players when you place them with Brett Favre and Peyton Manning. Hell, Bill Schroeder was almost blue chip talent with Brett Favre throwing him the ball.

That said...I can't think of too many other players I would rather have on my team than Driver (just in terms of TALENT, not character/presence) outside of the 20 I listed above. Any other names I am missing off the top of my head???

That's a good list Leaper...

I like both Boldin and Fitzgerald in the "elite" catagory though... Arizona easily has best WR tandem in the league. It's rare and unusual that a team would have two WR's that talented on the same team.

The only thing that keeps Walker off the "elite" list is his knee... it'll be interesting to see if he can come all the way back w/in a year.

I also like Wayne better than Driver.

As for the idea that there are 32 teams, therefore 32 #1 WR's, I don't agree that's the case. Are there 32 #1 LT's in the league... obviously no. I'd argue that there are several teams in the league w/o a true #1 WR.

Even NE doesn't have a true #1... Their best WR is Deon Branch, who is a nice receiver, and can put up some very good numbers, but he doesn't strike fear in opposing defenses.

Green Bay really doesn't have a true #1.

[SD GB fan]

a season back i wud have agreed that driver isnt a true #1 cos we had walker, who is younger and more talented. but seeing how he played last season, facing double or triple coverage the whole season since walker went out the first game, donald gave a strong push for #1 WR quality. despite the extra attention he still posted impressive numbers. i wud say he is definitely a number 1 WR, the only thing against him being his age. wist, as for ur definition of no. 1, u seem to interpret no. 1 WR as an elite or scary WR. i respect that but only few WRs can ever achieve that status. in my opinion, the no. 1 WR is the reliable guy that can perform when team need him the most and driver certainly did that quite a few times last season. without him, just imagine the passing game. make it 36 ints and 15 TDs for old #4.

[MJZiggy]

Does anyone have any yards after catch stats for DD and JW?

[SD GB fan]

career wise, DD has 3.8 and JW has 3.9

but JW is based on only three complete seasons with consistent 3.9, 4.0s.
DD meanwhile has 7 seasons and has two seasons where he avg almost 5 YAC.

[Partial]

Driver is a great 2. Now the question is, can we win with a great 2? Teams (Patriots) have done it before many times, but do we have the defense and running game for that?

[Scott Campbell]

[quote=wist43]

what he said, except Jennings may be a very, very good #2.


Outside of Boldin, who was the last rookie to come in a play great right out of the chute.

People are asking an awful lot out of Jennings.

[HarveyWallbangers]

[quote=wist43]

what he said, except Jennings may be a very, very good #2.


Outside of Boldin, who was the last rookie to come in a play great right out of the chute.

People are asking an awful lot out of Jennings.

Michael Clayton, but I agree with you.

The absolute top end that I think we could expect would be ~50 receptions and 700 yards.

[chain_gang]

It seems the most successful wideouts in their rookie years seem to be the ones that have most of the qualitys that jennings has. He has some speed not blazing, but good speed, Good hands, and the most important part run after the catch. Even if you go back to Michael Clayton, Anquan Boldin, Chris Chambers, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, and so on the one similiar trait is the run after the catch ability. I'm not saying Jennings is in Boldin's caliber, but it wouldn't suprise me if he's in Chambers, Williams, and a hell of a lot better than Clayton. A rookie can only make an impact if he earns the trust of the QB. I think that trust is going to grow every practice and camp. At the end of the year we'll be seeing this on the ESPN ticker...

Packers sweep rookie honors. Defensive rookie of the year A.J. Hawk and Offensive Rookie of the year Greg Jennings :smile:

[SD GB fan]

Packers sweep rookie honors. Defensive rookie of the year A.J. Hawk and Offensive Rookie of the year Greg Jennings :smile:

if that happens, chances are, packers will also be deep into the playoffs if not the superbowl, and i think the whole packer nation can die happy

[The Leaper]

People are asking an awful lot out of Jennings.

I doubt Jennings is going to become a starter his rookie year. If he can nail down the #3 spot at some point during the year, it would be a tremendous season for the kid. No Packer rookie WRs have done anything of note since we moved to the WCO with the arrival of Holmgren.

That said, Jennings appears to be one of the more polished WRs in terms of fundamentals that I've seen as a rookie in the last 4-5 years. It isn't impossible for a kid to step in and contribute in the WCO...especially if he understands what is necessary in route running and timing.

If Jennings can put up 35 catches and 450 yards in 2006, it will be a wildly successful year. Those numbers are roughly equal to the best year Ferguson has put up thus far, so for a rookie that would be a great start.