Let's Play Spot That Upgrade!: Wolf 2001 vs. Sherman 2004

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2001
Frank Winters C
Mike Flanagan C

2004
Scott Wells C
Grey Ruegamer C
Mike Flanagan* C

Well Frankie was getting old but he easily rates above Ruegs. As for Wells, we hope he succeeds in the new system, but in the old, wouldn't you take 'ol Bag a Doughnuts?

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Tackle

2001
Earl Dotson T
Chad Clifton T
Barry Stokes T
Kevin Jordan* T
Mark Tauscher T

2004
Chad Clifton LT
Brad Bedell OL
Mark Tauscher RT
Kevin Barry T
Brennan Curtin* T

Curtain showed promise and Barry was great in U-71, but he was never given even backup status at guard. Stokes went to start for another team and backed up Wahle. And while Earl was hard of hearing and his back was going out, he was better than everyone on this list other than Tauscher and Clifton.

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Guards

2001
Marco Rivera G
Bill Ferrario G
Ed Kehl* T/G
Mike Wahle OT

2004
Atlas Herrion* G
Mike Wahle LG
Steve Morley LG
Marco Rivera RG

Stokes was the backup left guard in 2001. Ferrario and Kehl never got to do much. Morely wasn't even on the depth chart at the end of 2004. And Atlas justs shrugged... his way off the roster. Stokes might be the only thing here that is interesting and give 2001 a slight edge.

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More to follow, actual work to do.

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Tight End

2001
Tyrone Davis TE
David Martin TE
Bubba Franks TE

2004
Ben Steele TE
Sean McHugh TE
Bubba Franks TE
David Martin* TE

Eh, call it even. Davis and Martin weren't healthy enough to be a consistent help and while Steele clearly had some route running ability, he dropped more passes than Rickey Dudley.

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Wide Receiver

2001
Donald Driver WR
Charles Lee WR
Bill Schroeder WR
Corey Bradford WR
Antonio Freeman WR
Robert Ferguson WR
Mike Horacek* WR

2004
Donald Driver WR
Andrae Thurman WR
Antonio Chatman WR
Javon Walker WR
Robert Ferguson WR
Jamal Jones* WR
Mike Marker* WR

This epitomizs the highlight of Sherman's tenure as GM. Walker is a clear upgrade in starting talent. However, if I told you you were going to lose significant player time at this position, wouldn't you consider taking the 2001 lineup? Bradford, Freeman, Lee and Ferguson are far better 3-6 than the 2004 backups, even if this is before Driver's breakout. But Walker gives your starting lineup a third playmaker and is huge. Edge 2001. [edit: should be Edge 2004]

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Fullbacks

2001
Chris Gall* FB
Rondell Mealey* ??
William Henderson RB

2004
Nicolas Luchey FB
William Henderson FB
Vonta Leach FB

I memory serves, Mealy did double duty as Henderson's backup in 2001, at least on an emergency basis. I prefer the younger Henderson to older model, but the backups in 2004, a rarity for GM Sherman, had clearly improved here. Call it even.

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Quarterbacks

2001
Brett Favre QB
Doug Pederson QB
Henry Burris* QB

2004
Brett Favre QB
J.T. O'Sullivan QB
Craig Nall QB
Doug Pederson* QB

Younger and healthier Favre and Pederson versus Sherman's second great accomplishment, a competent third string QB, Nall. I'll give Sherman an edge here. I liked Nall when he was here and I think there is a decent chance his career will hew closer to Brunell's more than Detmer's.

[mraynrand]

I can't believe you'd give the edge to the 2001 rec. corps. Driver didn't emerge until the 2001 playoff game, and Freeman, except for one decent game against Baltimore, was pretty worthless. Walker was tremendous until the playoff game (was he really hurt?) and Driver had an outstanding year. Two wideouts over 1200 yards in 2004 versus the dreck on the field in 2001. Wasn't even close.

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Running Backs

2001
Dorsey Levens RB
Herbert Goodman RB
Ahman Green RB
Rondell Mealey* RB


Ahman Green RB
Tony Fisher RB
Najeh Davenport RB
Walter Williams* RB
Chris Robertson* RB

Davenport's great and unavailable. Fisher is not the equal of Levens, and Levens went on to be effective for the Eagles after Green took over. I like young Green/Levens over Green/Davenport and Fisher.

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I can't believe you'd give the edge to the 2001 rec. corps. Driver didn't emerge until the 2001 playoff game, and Freeman, except for one decent game against Baltimore, was pretty worthless. Walker was tremendous until the playoff game (was he really hurt?) and Driver had an outstanding year. Two wideouts over 1200 yards in 2004 versus the dreck on the field in 2001. Wasn't even close.
Typo; the last line about Walker was meant as a transition to give the edge to 2004 despite depth of 2001, sorry for the confusion.

[mraynrand]

OK. About the RB comparison - It may just be that Green peaked in 2003/2004. That guy ran a lot of plays and even though he was in great shape, it's got to wear on you. Wasn't he the leading rusher and receiver in his first two seasons with the Pack? (Another piece of evidence showing how pathetic the rec. corps were in 2000 and 2001). So I guess I agree that Green and Levens in 2000 was better overall than Green/Davenport in 2004.

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2001
Darren Sharper CB/S
Billy Jenkins S
Matt Bowen S
Scott Frost S
LeRoy Butler* S
Keith Thibodeaux

2004
Mark Roman S
Darren Sharper S
Wendell Williams* S
Julius Curry* S
Bhawoh Jue CB/S

Aside from Sharper on both teams, Butler was next best, but he was injured and didn't finish this season. While Nick Collins just might do it, Butler has been sorely missed. Bowen went to start for the Redskins after replacing Butler as a starter. Jue played some safety after Butler was gone but never established himself and had Sharper's sixth sense about how to get out of position. Bowen is the only player here that stands out beside the starters and given that he started the season as a backup, edge goes to 2001.

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2001
K.D. Williams LB
Torrance Marshall LB
Nate Wayne LB
Bernardo Harris LB
Rob Holmberg LB
Na'il Diggs LB
Chris Gizzi* LB
Paris Lenon* LB

2004
Hannibal Navies LB
Paris Lenon LB
Steve Josue LB
Nick Barnett LB
Na'il Diggs LB
Torrance Marshall* LB
Ike Emodi* LB
Nick McNeil* LB

Woof. I thought Diggs played the Shurmur SAM position well, better, I think, than he later played the WILL. And Harris was adequate as a run stuffer. Nate Wayne was good enough to attract an offer to start from the Eagles. Barnett is the most physically talented here and obviously can get anywhere to make a tackle, not enough TFL to call him dominant, but then he wasn't getting any help. I like Navies less than Diggs at the position, though he was servicable. Barnett over Harris and Wayne over Diggs at Will. As for backups, Lenon/Williams/Marshall/Holmberg vs. Lenon/Josue/Marshall. Do you like KD over Steve? I'll take the 2001 starters and try to forget the backup for each year. The depth chart here and at DB is what keeps wist43 up at night.

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2001
Allen Rossum CB
Bhawoh Jue CB
Tod McBride CB
Mike McKenzie CB
Tyrone Williams CB
Antuan Edwards* CB
Keith Thibodeaux CB/S


2004
Bhawoh Jue CB
Joey Thomas CB
Jason Horton CB
Michael Hawthorne CB
Ahmad Carroll CB
Al Harris CB
Chris Johnson CB
Erwin Swiney* CB
Art Smith* CB

Rossum was a fine dime CB and did a nice job in specialty coverage, usually on speedy smurfs or RBs. McKenzie and Willimas were solid starters and in 2001 some of us thought there might still be hope for Edwards and/or Jue. Harris played well in 2004, the other corner was a catastrophe all year. And they never found anyone on the bench to stop the bleeding. I don't think Christl will ever forgive this coaching staff for starting Hawthorne. I will never forget how to spell Bhawoh. Edge 2001.

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2001
Jared Tomich DE
Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila DE
Billy Lyon DE
Jamal Reynolds DE
John Thierry* DE
Vonnie Holliday DT

2004
Aaron Kampman DE
R-Kal Truluck DE
Kab. Gbaja-Biamila DE
Corey Williams DE
Donnell Washington* DE

Thierry, a reclamation project/bust from the Bears, was drafted as the next Dent/Haley. But by the time he was with the Packers, he was only good enough to hold up in run support and KGB and Reynolds were used as the pass rushers. I believe Lyon moved to DE after Thierry was hurt. Holliday was fine as the Power end but never generated much pass rush except opposite Reggie. 2004 found KGB a starter opposite Kampman who bests everyone on this list with the possible exception of Holliday. But there is dreck behind them. Both teams had similar results versus the run, although in 2004 that might have been becuse offenses were passing their way down the field. KGB is miscast as a starter and sacks for the years 52 for 2001 and 40 in 2004 with approx 20 of those coming from Carolina in week one. Edge 2001.

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2001
Santana Dotson DT
Jim Flanigan DT
Gilbert Brown DT
Cletidus Hunt DT
Steve Warren* DT
Rod Walker NT

2004
Cullen Jenkins DL
Colin Cole DT
Cletidus Hunt DT
Kenny Peterson DT
Grady Jackson NT
James Lee* NT

Flanigan and Hunt backing up Dotson and Walker backing up Gilbert, it ain't pretty and three players were at the tail end of their careers, but there is depth. Bates corrctly drove off Hunt in 2005, and I am convinced Grady made it only because there wasn't a replacement (a constant theme of the Sherman GM tenure). Jenkins has shown he has something to offer on passing downs. I'll reserve judgement on Cole for ND or bulldog as I haven't seens anything that stands out about Cole, but I haven't seen him washed out of the play like Lee. Edge 2001.

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2001
Ryan Longwell K
Rob Davis LS
Josh Bidwell P

2004
Ryan Longwell K
Rob Davis LS
Bryan Barker P
B.J. Sander P

Enough said. 2001.

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So, in conclusion, APBs assertion that Sherman handed over the same roster quality (plus upgrades) to Thompson as Wolf did to Sherman is a joke, especially on defense, where the beginning of the collapse was evident even in 2002.

There was a near complete lack of depth everywhere on the roster and that was exposed during the 2005 medical-fest.

On offense, he upgraded the receiver position with Walker, but he lost ground elsewhere save thrid string QB. And everyone on the line was older and more expensive without any help on the roster.

And one question, non-rhetorical, why did Wahle resign with the $6 million roster bonus in his second GB contract? Why was this provision here? If he wanted one more big payday, which seems the likeliest explanation, why didn't Sherman give it to him in the 2nd contract? Why short term it?

Did Sherman not have the cap room to do a bigger deal? Is that why his second contract was short?

Defense was in a free fall and McKenzie is only part of the story. Harris was a very nice addition, but they still hadn't found a second safety. And because of a lack of talent and depth. there was no one to cover for McKenzie's absence.

LB had been losing talent since Simmons was traded. His replacement, Joyner, wasn't well suited to Shurmur's scheme and he was gone shortly. Wolf found Diggs and Wayne, but this unit wasn't a strength and it got worse under Sherman.

Kampman, like Barnett and Harris was a nice pickup. But at best (Harris, Barnett) they adequately replaced people who were gone, but didn't make up for the holes next to them (or the problem of depth).

Sherman's main approach to FA, to spend next year's money on this year's player, meant he was always losing his depth because he couldn't resign everybody next year. And with his tageting of players in the draft, and even a normal failure rate, meant that this roster was spending maximum dollars and losing talent.

After allowing several good players to leave, Thompson at least has the cap room to sign rent-a-players to front loaded contracts. Which means next year, he'll have room again to chase FAs and sign his own. This should solve the depth issue.

The question that can't be answered is whether he'll find enough playmakers to remake the top of the roster.