Roster rehab, creative coaching lead to Packers' turnaround

[woodbuck27]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Atyq2Y1LgbSC2wFvN2kar5GG2bYF?slug=ap-packersprogress&prov=ap&type=lgns

Roster rehab, creative coaching lead to Packers' turnaround

By CHRIS JENKINS, AP Sports Writer
December 13, 2007

woodbuck27:

So there you go.

A really honest analysis and statement on the 2007 Green Bay Packers.

I'm with Favre.

It's to me simply a huge surprize that it's gone so well this season for OUR team . . .but hey !!

Isn't LIFE as a Packer fan grrrreeeeaaaat this season compared to the last two and especially the pain of 2005.


I'm reminded now of a member here.

4and12to12and4.

I hope I got that right Packer fan. :)


Now today, I have to concentrate on that 2007 Pick'em Championship.

Number two may as well be number ten!??

Uhhh well . . .not really once you get past the ego push :) . . .

IT'S GOT A LOT TO DO WITH HOW YOU PLAY AND ENJOY :) PLAYING THE GAME.

I'm a tad like ' the MAN ' Brett Favre and I really like to win it all. Then reality sets in AND THEN THERE'S JUST THIS!!

All the time:

It's NOT ALL. . . in how YOU finish BUT THAT YOU GET THERE. :)

TOO MANY PEOPLE JUST GIVE UP WAY TOO SOON AND MISS OUT ON THE EXPERIENCE.

PACKERS FOREVER !

[HarveyWallbangers]

Linebacker Robert Thomas, who played for the Packers during the dismal 2005 season that cost coach Mike Sherman his job, returned to Lambeau Field with Oakland last Sunday and barely recognized his old team in a 38-7 Packers victory.

"There isn't a single position where they aren't significantly better," Thomas said. "We knew they were good, but that's the best team we've faced this season. I know we've lost a lot of games, but no team has taken it to us like that."

Nice.

[privatepacker]

Linebacker Robert Thomas, who played for the Packers during the dismal 2005 season that cost coach Mike Sherman his job, returned to Lambeau Field with Oakland last Sunday and barely recognized his old team in a 38-7 Packers victory.

"There isn't a single position where they aren't significantly better," Thomas said. "We knew they were good, but that's the best team we've faced this season. I know we've lost a lot of games, but no team has taken it to us like that."

Nice.

That may be the best compliment that I have seen about the Packers this year.

[swede]

Great Post Woody.

Mike McCarthy really deserves a lot of credit for the things that have happened. I often feel that I'm watching a game plan unfold, on both offense and defense, when the Packers play well. A coach really builds the confidence of the players when he puts them in position to win at every position on every play. And confident players play harder and quicker and smarter than their opponents.

I wonder if McCarthy has been doing similar things with his coaching staff. Is he finding a way to support some of the coaches that we suspect to be weaker, less talented, or less experienced? I wonder if Schottenheimer and Campen are being helped by some structure/support that MM has put into place.

Anyway, coaching deserves a real shout out.

(I suspect that NFC coach of the year either goes to McCarthy or Wade Phillips, and I think that people may remember that GB wasn't expected to do much this year--advantage McCarthy.)

[woodbuck27]

Great Post Woody.

Mike McCarthy really deserves a lot of credit for the things that have happened. I often feel that I'm watching a game plan unfold, on both offense and defense, when the Packers play well. A coach really builds the confidence of the players when he puts them in position to win at every position on every play. And confident players play harder and quicker and smarter than their opponents.

I wonder if McCarthy has been doing similar things with his coaching staff. Is he finding a way to support some of the coaches that we suspect to be weaker, less talented, or less experienced? I wonder if Schottenheimer and Campen are being helped by some structure/support that MM has put into place.

Anyway, coaching deserves a real shout out.

(I suspect that NFC coach of the year either goes to McCarthy or Wade Phillips, and I think that people may remember that GB wasn't expected to do much this year--advantage McCarthy.)

Yup.

I give a lot of credit to Mike McCarthy. Especially his nose to the grindstone attitude; and this YOU gotta believe thing that he's built into the team through a lot of repetition.

At the same time not overburdening his players with too much drilling.

Mike McCarthy seem very down to earth in his coaching style to me.

He may well be our MVP?

But Brett Favre = SWEET !! He's a killing machine once he believes in his tools. :)

PACKERS FOREVER.

[Tarlam!]

Favre was grumbling about the team's inactivity in free agency as recently as May.

Now the Packers will take an 11-2 record into Sunday's game in St. Louis, with the NFC North title already in hand. They can talk about the Super Bowl without anybody snickering

Yeah, good post 'buck. Is this, like, your "mea culpa" post, or are you still the lone TT antagonist in the world?

I hope you will take Favre's lead here and become sensible towars the great Packers GM.

[4and12to12and4]

Great Post Woody.

Mike McCarthy really deserves a lot of credit for the things that have happened. I often feel that I'm watching a game plan unfold, on both offense and defense, when the Packers play well. A coach really builds the confidence of the players when he puts them in position to win at every position on every play. And confident players play harder and quicker and smarter than their opponents.

I wonder if McCarthy has been doing similar things with his coaching staff. Is he finding a way to support some of the coaches that we suspect to be weaker, less talented, or less experienced? I wonder if Schottenheimer and Campen are being helped by some structure/support that MM has put into place.

Anyway, coaching deserves a real shout out.

(I suspect that NFC coach of the year either goes to McCarthy or Wade Phillips, and I think that people may remember that GB wasn't expected to do much this year--advantage McCarthy.)





Agreed, Swede. What I love about this offense he has in place is that I almost never can quess what we are going to do from play to play. I always could with Sherman, he was so predictable, and still is with Houston, lucky they have a GREAT receiver and very good defense. But, M3 suprises me consistently. Just when I think he's gonna run a draw, he throws a slant, and when I think an obvious slant or quick out is coming, he runs a screen pass. He puts in these four and five receiver sets that are so refreshing to see, and we have to give the line a lot of credit, because last year, everyone had to stay in to block except Favre, so that shows you how far they've come, they still have a lot of improving to do, but that's what I love about M3, he runs plays that only require a couple of seconds of protection, for the most part, unless it's 2nd and 3 or less, and he knows he's got one or two extra protectors and will have time to throw it deep. He just gets it, and has done a wonderful job of creating an offensive scheme around the talent he has. That is why he deserves coach of the year, he has, in one year's time completely changed how our offense operates due to it's personnel and his excellent knowledge of it. M3 is a great head coach, and he also has that "it" factor about him, he just has that "football guy, tough guy mentality" and I think that swagger trickles down to his players including Favre, and that is why Favre is better now than he ever has been. M3 -Coach of the year. He's got my vote.

[RashanGary]

Nice.

These guys don't know what they are talking about. Ask bulldog, the Packers don't stand a chance against great teams like the Cowboys

[Merlin]

Thompson hired McCarthy so he gets ALL the credit right?

[Jimx29]

This year, Thompson spent a third-round pick on Jones, another receiver from a non-BCS school, San Jose State. Jones didn't wow scouts with his speed or size, but he catches nearly everything thrown his way and is the Packers' No. 3 receiver.


Almost......as in if he hadn't dropped two easy passes in the red zone against the bears.......

[Merlin]

This year, Thompson spent a third-round pick on Jones, another receiver from a non-BCS school, San Jose State. Jones didn't wow scouts with his speed or size, but he catches nearly everything thrown his way and is the Packers' No. 3 receiver.


Almost......as in if he hadn't dropped two easy passes in the red zone against the bears.......

Weren't those fumbles? No one said he secures the ball after the catch!

[MJZiggy]

This year, Thompson spent a third-round pick on Jones, another receiver from a non-BCS school, San Jose State. Jones didn't wow scouts with his speed or size, but he catches nearly everything thrown his way and is the Packers' No. 3 receiver.


Almost......as in if he hadn't dropped two easy passes in the red zone against the bears.......

Weren't those fumbles? No one said he secures the ball after the catch!

No, the fumbles were how Grant got benched...

[Merlin]

Grant had one, against the Vikings in a key situation. Jones fumbled away two drives. Although short of the red zone, definitely within scoring position.

[MJZiggy]

Grant had one, against the Vikings in a key situation. Jones fumbled away two drives. Although short of the red zone, definitely within scoring position.

My bad. You're right on that one.

[Joemailman]

Thompson hired McCarthy so he gets ALL the credit right?

Well he obviously gets a good deal of credit. It's not like hiring McCarthy was a no-brainer. McCarthy was hardly at the top of a lot of people's list of coaching candidates. Thompson stuck his neck out when he hired McCarthy and it has paid off.

Actually, arguing about which one should get the most credit is a bit foolish. McCarthy was hired, I believe, at least in part because he and Thompson share the same vision of how to put together a championship team. They are in essence a two-headed monster. You can't really separate the two. It's Thompson/McCarthy, not Thompson and McCarthy.

[b bulldog]

Nick, kind of a smart comment after losing the first bet and the Cowboys are better imo, the Raiders never played them this season.

[b bulldog]

TT and MM should get all the credit. TT has put some very good talent together and MM reigned in Favre and has coached a young team to do some wonderful things.

[Scott Campbell]

Thompson hired McCarthy so he gets ALL the credit right?



Show me where anyone has said that Thompson gets ALL the credit.

[RashanGary]

Nick, kind of a smart comment after losing the first bet and the Cowboys are better imo, the Raiders never played them this season.

I found out Jolly was out long term, KGB went down and so did Woodson all after the Carolina Sunday that I gave you the 10 point spread. I would have been more cautious iwth three of the players that I consider impact players on our defense out. Favre also had his worst half of football and I think the Oline can do a better job.

Yeah, it's a little cocky after losing a bet, but I still think you give the Cowobys more credit than they deserve and the Packers less than they deserve. We'll find out though.

[b bulldog]

hopefully you will be correct. If you are, the masses will be ecstatic!

[woodbuck27]

Favre was grumbling about the team's inactivity in free agency as recently as May.

Now the Packers will take an 11-2 record into Sunday's game in St. Louis, with the NFC North title already in hand. They can talk about the Super Bowl without anybody snickering

Yeah, good post 'buck. Is this, like, your "mea culpa" post, or are you still the lone TT antagonist in the world?

I hope you will take Favre's lead here and become sensible towars the great Packers GM.

Tarlam!

TT has to come up a long ways in my sight before I'd ever annoit him with the impressive accolade as GREAT PACKER GM.

Dam what has he won Tarlam?

I'm not the lone TT critic here either.

Maybe the rest of them just won't stand beside what they see.They are playing the passive - aggressive card.

I see it and tell it as I do.

I'm not into BS. . . PR. I'm not into being accepted or desiring to be seen as anyone other than what I am.

That's here. A really solid Packer and NFL fan Tarlam!. You'll never get the knife in the back from a man like me Tarlam!. I'll come down on ya head on and announced with previews.

I don't like TT's style of managing our team. I can't see it any other way than I have. He sucks out loud when it comes to being an opportunist.

Tarlam! Just two examples of TT's failure to get it done.

SEE RANDY MOSS !

SEE TERRELL OWENS !

SEE NEW ENGLAND VS DALLAS in this upcoming Super Bowl!

Take Randy Moss away fr. New England and add him to our side and what do you see?? TT failed to give us that. He as usual went to sleep at the wheel. Not acquiring Randy Moss and allowing him to go to New England alre4ady a stron team is not excusable.Especially given that we needed that man's obvious talent in the Green and Gold.

Ted Thompson either must change or go with what he is and never see us to the top as he sleeps away in his dreamy world of Thompson Ozzzzzz !!

PACKERS FOREVER!

[Tarlam!]

Well 'buck, he seems to be good enough for Favre. I just thought you'd be a man and step forward and admit you had erred on your judgement of TT.

It seems I was wrong and you still want to hold out hope that you are right. Of course, if you are right, the Pack need to go down the toilette.

But then, you will have poven the whole world wrong. That should make you feel great.

[Partial]

Woody I reckon if we had Randy Moss or Terrell Owens we'd be 11-2 or WORSE. We have the best receiving corps in the NFL imo. We have had plenty of success moving the ball without either of those two, so what difference would they really make other than taking them off another team?

That would be like signing a player to sit on the bench simply so he cannot play on another team. That is simply ridiculous.

Also, with one or both of those guys starting (TO is 34, Moss is 30), we would be missing out on the chance to develop young talent. That would leave the cabinets bear in a year or two. I am much happier with 22 and 23 year old Greg Jennings and James Jones doing an equally impressive job.

[woodbuck27]

Well 'buck, he seems to be good enough for Favre. I just thought you'd be a man and step forward and admit you had erred on your judgement of TT.

It seems I was wrong and you still want to hold out hope that you are right. Of course, if you are right, the Pack need to go down the toilette.

But then, you will have poven the whole world wrong. That should make you feel great.

No man!!

Get the proper perspective on this argument.

It's not . . . ALL about. . . Ted Thompson but moreso Brett Favre.

Where would we be (really man . . try to get here. .; it's too easy) without Brett Favre's season?

Get to real Packer fan. NOT Geee. . . TT is just the BEST.

That is beyond Juvenile thinking.

Because that's very difficult to support to any Packer fan that is really on the watch. Even half awake to Ted Thompson's. . . Duhhhhh. . . ways.

I suspect even you could do a better job than that ' doe in the headlites ' Tarlam!

Lots of Packer fans here could exceed Ted Thompson's nothing much attitude and work sleepy ethic.

You'd simply have to try a wee bit.

Do . . . . some. . . . work.

Because he's terrible. A total SHAM !

[MJZiggy]

You sharing?

[SkinBasket]

Because he's terrible. A total SHAM !


And we're all figments of your imagination...

[woodbuck27]

Woody I reckon if we had Randy Moss or Terrell Owens we'd be 11-2 or WORSE. We have the best receiving corps in the NFL imo. We have had plenty of success moving the ball without either of those two, so what difference would they really make other than taking them off another team?

That would be like signing a player to sit on the bench simply so he cannot play on another team. That is simply ridiculous.

Also, with one or both of those guys starting (TO is 34, Moss is 30), we would be missing out on the chance to develop young talent. That would leave the cabinets bear in a year or two. I am much happier with 22 and 23 year old Greg Jennings and James Jones doing an equally impressive job.

I would agree with that side of the argument but I look at this fr. a standpoint of wanting Favre to win again.

Win now.

That would have been more obvious as a chance fr. the start of the season if TT had denied NE, Randy Moss. The cost was very decent for us and the upside HUGE!!!

To have the very best opportunity for that to be a reality or a Super Bowl apearance.

Randy Moss with Brett Favre exceeds Brett Favre and James Jones.

Is there any argument on that one?

We are smart and reasonable people here arn't we as a whole?

Then the answer is easy.

Nooooooo !!

It's always for me about Favre and what he deserves for all he's given to us as Packer fans.

He's managed to get there again this season. His dedication to us the fans again.

With his operation and outstanding off field workout regime, to get ready as BEST he could for us to see another Super Bowl game, with him behind center.

Favre tears ass Partial and that's a huge contrast to the HOhhhhhh Hummmm attitude that our lacadasial GM demonstrates clearly to us fans.

TT is in our faces slow, pondering and not prepared to take a chance.

He should be improving our team as best he can right now. NOT sitting back admiring his scenery.

He's not on the ball folks.

It would be very difficult for me to see it other than I surely do.

I must call a spade a spade.

I regret that TT is as he is because we are going to hurt for that.

Count on it.

[woodbuck27]

Because he's terrible. A total SHAM !


And we're all figments of your imagination...

Debate.

Don't just slam me.

Please.

I'm ready. :)

[SkinBasket]

He should be improving our team as best he can right now. NOT sitting back admiring his scenery.

He's not on the ball folks.



You're right. This team is a complete disaster with no shot at the play-offs.

[MJZiggy]

Woodbuck, just one quick little question if I may? What makes you think that Randy freakin' Moss would be willing to settle for being a 3rd string wideout?

Thx.

[SkinBasket]

Debate.

Don't just slam me.

Please.

I'm ready. :)





“I am Teh roboot. I can reboot. REBOAT! Oh ya! I rok!”

~ Teh roboot on Teh roboot

“Just... No...”

~ Salad Fork on Teh roboot

“I'm evil!”

~ Teh roboot's leg on Teh roboot

“Is there even a point to this? Oh, and I like feesh.”

~ Coolguy92 on Teh roboot

“Did someone call me?”

~ Feesh on Feesh

“I quit school to go to Star Wars!”

~ The Retard on um... Star Wars, I guess...

“OBJECTION! IT'S FUN TO SAY OBJECTION!”

~ Phoenix Wrong on The Retard

“SPLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE E!!!!!!!!!!!! heheh.... spleeeeee....”

~ BlackRavenSasuke on Teh roboot

“Apparently the Elite Beat Agents are looking for him. They say they want their dance back.”

~ Lyrrad on ... actually, what the hell AM I on?

“I am the robot! I can still load! Reboot! Oh yes, I most definitely rock.”

~ The robot on Teh roboot

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/9/93/TEHROBOOT.JPG/350px-TEHROBOOT.JPG

[Brohm]

:?: :shock:

[OS PA]

Because he's terrible. A total SHAM !


And we're all figments of your imagination...

Debate.

Don't just slam me.

Please.

I'm ready. :)


My Only problem with Woodbuck

Is that his posts are too long.

And that he writes in simple sentences.

That he always puts an enter after.

It's almost as if he doesn't know what a paragraph is!

But, I don't hate him.

I often read what he writes.

And sometimes

sometimes I agree with him.

More often than not, I feel that he's wrong.

But we're all wrong at times

If the man could just learn how to format a post correctly.

I would really see

nothing wrong

with him

at all.

:lol: :lol:

[run pMc]

TT deserves some credit for this team's success, as do the coaches and the players. If this team was 2-12 we'd be heaping blame on them, so I think it's fair they share the accolades when they're doing well. It's a team game.

As for TT being slow and ponderous, it's past the trade deadline -- what should he be doing? Like most GMs and scouts, he's been scouting for the draft while his team plays. I have no problem with that. If this team wasn't better since he took over the job, I'd be more skeptical of his methods. Don't always agree with everything he does, but when your team goes from 4-12 to 12-2 in 3 seasons it's hard to argue with the results.

While we're at it, why not give a kudo to Harlan for yanking Sherman as GM and hiring TT, and then staying out of TT's way for the M3 hire?

[Tarlam!]

My Only problem with Woodbuck

Is that his posts are too long.

And that he writes in simple sentences.

That he always puts an enter after.

It's almost as if he doesn't know what a paragraph is!

But, I don't hate him.

I often read what he writes.

And sometimes

sometimes I agree with him.

More often than not, I feel that he's wrong.

But we're all wrong at times

If the man could just learn how to format a post correctly.

I would really see

nothing wrong

with him

at all.

:lol: :lol:

My nomination for post of the year.

Content, tact, accuracy, imitation - all perfect 10's.

Give the man an award!!!

[woodbuck27]

He should be improving our team as best he can right now. NOT sitting back admiring his scenery.

He's not on the ball folks.



You're right. This team is a complete disaster with no shot at the play-offs.

Just playoff's is what this is all about.Favre and I waant a Super Bowl.

We've had just playoff's since 1997.

[Tarlam!]

Favre and I watr a Super Bowl.



Do you have any idea how conceited this makes you sound?

You are a fan. Favre is the solution.

[Deputy Nutz]

Terrell Owens? Randy Moss? The two biggest locker room cancers in professional sports and you wanted to bring them on the youngest team in the national football league with the hopes the General Favre could manage them by himself? Moss is looking good because he gets the ball, and scores 19 touchdown passes, things are going great for him. Owens no so much right now that his team has lost a whopping two games and he is talking "imaginary" smack about his QB and his personal life.

It sounds to me, that you are more of a fan of these two than you are of the Packers.

As much as I love Favre, he ain't the Packers, when he retires with or without going to another Super Bowl his legacy will still be intact, he will still be remembered as the Greatest, but life in Green Bay will go on, The "G" will still be on gold helmets, the jerseys will still be green, and the Packers will still play their games at Lambeau Field.

News flash Woody, this team is one of the top two teams in the NFC, a place they haven't been in 10 years, in those ten years, Ron Wolf has been GM, Mike Sherman has been GM and Ted Thompson as well. This team is still made up of decisions by all three men, they all deserve credit for this organization and the 12-2 record, but Thompson has rebuilt this franchise from a 4-12 disaster to a team that has a first round bye, and is in contention for home field advantage all in less than 3 years, that takes some talent as a GM, certainly not luck. This team has the depth and talent to make it to the Super Bowl, but on top of that, they have a heck of a Head Coach, that very few had faith in when he was hired, Ted Thompson did, and he made one of the most important decisions and choices in franchise history.

Final word, Favre hasn't done this on his own, and only a fool would think so, sure Favre is playing at the pinnacle of his ability, but his ability hasn't fluctuated over the past 10 years, the talent around him has, his decision making has, his coaching staff has, but Favre is one man, and get this, he doesn't even play defense, and on offense he still only plays QB. Favre didn't hire Mike McCarthy, in fact he didn't even have his opinion asked for. He didn't sit there in the draft war room and rebuild this franchise with young talent. Last time I checked Brett Favre was still, and only the QB of the Green Bay Packers, as fantastic and legendary as he is he is only one player in the long storied history of the Green Bay Packers.

[Badgepack]

Best post ever in reguards to the Moss and TT arguments.

[cheesner]

Thompson hired McCarthy so he gets ALL the credit right?



Show me where anyone has said that Thompson gets ALL the credit.
As posted above, MM and TT are a team. If either of these guys doesn't do their job, the Packers suffer. You can't assign a % of credit to the success of the Packers. However, everything begins and ends at the desk of Thompson. i was his vision of the Packers that led to the hiring of MM. Despite the continued assertions of the lingering remnants of the anti-TT crowd, the Packers are successful because of the moves and decisions of TT.

[Fred's Slacks]

I agree that TT made a mistake when he wasn't aggressive enough to acquire Moss. Despite the fact that we are the youngest team in the league, I think we have enough veteran leadership on this team that we don't have to worry about Moss becoming a cancer. I could be wrong but that's my opinion.

With that said, I don't hold this against TT because I can see why it happened. It's because TT doesn't waiver from his principles. He doesn't make a move unless he feels it is truly in the best interest of this football team. He doesn't take high risks. He only make a move if he feels the team is getting value for what their giving. Its because of those principles that we have the young talented roster that we have now.

So, maybe if TT was more of a risk taker, we'd have Moss on our Roster right now and him and Favre might be having a great season. However, if that were the case, I don't see us having as much young talent on the roster and I don't see us having the cap situation that we have because if TT were a risk taker he'd certainly have a number of other risky moves that didn't work out. Maybe we win another SB for Favre but then again maybe not. Then when he retires, we have more rebuilding to do because of the risks we took.

[MJZiggy]

I'm curious...what more should he have done? Which risk should he have taken?

[RashanGary]

I disagree that Ted Thompson isn't willing to take risks. He was one of two teams who pursued Randy Moss and in the end, Moss chose the Patriots. Reggie McKenzie said it was close, but "randy wanted to be a Patriot". Ted Thompson would have chosen Moss. Moss wasn't willing to choose the Packers if you believe Reggie McKenzie (Thompson highest ranking assistant).

Another risk was signing Woodson and giving him 10 million up front after he had been injured for 2 years in a row and nobody else was willing to give him another big pay day. It was Ted's biggest UFA move, and turns out Woodson is a hell of a corner back. He knew what he was doing. I don't think there are many UFAs that are as good as Woodson is (probowl level), but most of them get paid like probowlers. That's not Ted refusing to take risks. That's Ted refusing to take big recources away from the rest of his roster on average players.


The "Ted Thompson won't take risk" sentiment is nothing but a myth. I'd say a more accurate statement is "Ted Thompson doesn't take big risk unless he feels there is a big reward oppertunity attached and in this case, it's not even worth stating because all it really says is "TEd Thompson is an effective GM who knows how and when to use each market".

[Bretsky]

I disagree that Ted Thompson isn't willing to take risks. He was one of two teams who pursued Randy Moss and in the end, Moss chose the Patriots. Reggie McKenzie said it was close, but "randy wanted to be a Patriot". Ted Thompson would have chosen Moss. Moss wasn't willing to choose the Packers.

Another risk was signing Woodson and giving him 10 million up front after he had been injured for 2 years in a row and nobody else was willing to give him another big pay day. It was Ted's biggest UFA move, and turns out Woodson is a hell of a corner back. He knew what he was doing. I don't think there are many UFAs that are as good as Woodson is, but most of them get paid like probowlers. That's not Ted refusing to take risks. That's Ted refusing to take big recources away from the rest of his roster on an average player.


The "Ted Thompson won't take risk" sentiment is nothing but a myth. I'd say a more accurate statement is "Ted Thompson doesn't take big risk unless he feels there is a big reward oppertunity attached and in this case, it's not even worth stating because all it really says is "TEd Thompson is an effective GM who knows how to build a team".

You could also argue TT took a tremendous risk in offering Lavar Arrington a huge contract. He decided to play for less money somewhere else.

In retrospect, thank goodness he did

TT used the funds Arrington turned down to sign Woodson.

Had Arrington accpted the deal TT....or the Packers for that manner might not be looking quite as good right now.

[Oscar]

I'd like to see Thompson keep his hire from within method in tact.. Wait out the big spenders in the free agent market and continue to draft for depth. A lil good luck helps out too.. :)

[RashanGary]

Yes Bretsky, that's part of the risk we talk about. Moss's knees/ankles held up. Even if they didn't, it was a good, calculated risk to give up a 3rd rounder for him. I think Arrington was such a physically strong player that he was worth an investment as well. Woodson the same. Hindsight tells us that two were good and one bad. With that in mind it's probably not good to run around dumping dough on the UFA market. It just doesn't seem to be as reliable as signing your own (knowing their health history), drafting and using more low risk UFA moves (although some big ones do work out).

It's a complex risk/reward balance. It's something I think I have a feel for, but I don't have enough of a grasp of it to really explain it in a post (obvioulsy because I can't make you see what I see). There are a lot of variables and ultimately you have to balance it all out and put a number on what the player is worht. He might flop, but the reward potential has to be big enough to take that risk. With the way UFA is used by some desperate GM's, I don't think it's a very good way to build a team unless you have a winning team and older, good players want to be on yoru team. NE is benefiting by this.

[Scott Campbell]

I find Woody's posts to read a lot like ransom notes, only not nearly as well organized and much less coherent.




http://wehaveyourmonkey.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/note.jpg

[woodbuck27]

I find Woody's posts to read a lot like ransom notes, only not nearly as well organized and much less coherent.




http://wehaveyourmonkey.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/note.jpg

I find that YOUR maturity's challenged :) most of the time Scott.

Your so challenged in life to be taken seriously as a judge of other's Scott. You need to clean up your own act, sonny.

Your 'in fact' pathetic, but I'm not your judge.

I never liked YOU sonny. Respect is out of the question.

I just got tired of making a fool out of you.

We certainly don't want to go there again Scott?

I don't think so, Eh?

Debating you is like taking candy fr. a baby. Hardly challenging. Hardly fair to you.

Your strength to debate = weak.

Your psychosis alarming!

whoops:

Not to be undone by another members criticism of me and my inability to formulate a paragraph I'll try to do that:

So, taking the above:

I find that YOUR maturity challenged. :) most of the time Scott. Your so challenged in life to be taken seriously as a judge of other's Scott. You need to clean up your own act. Your ' in fact ' pathetic Scott, but I'm not your judge. I'm prejudiced also Scott as I've never liked YOU, so respect is certainly out of the question.

Debating one - one with you Scott. I just got tired of making a fool of you, as you'd get so pissed and get on your psychocycle. Good grief those days, a hoot. NO! We don't want to go there again Scott for many reason's? Mostly, it's not healthy for our Forum.

Thinking. . . no. . .I don't think so Eh?

Anyway Scott. Debating you is like taking candy fr. a baby. Hardly challenging. Hardly fair to you Sonny. Your strength to debate = weak. Worse, your psychosis, alarming!

PACKERS FOREVER.

[woodbuck27]

I'm curious...what more should he have done? Which risk should he have taken?

He screwed up on missing out on Randy Moss.Try harder to get off that horse for once and simply show the parts to admit that is a fact mj.

Ted Thompson blew the Randy Moss (possible signingù); because he made an assumption that he had that deal set in place, without the proper follow-up. The importance of closing that deal meant, for our team and it's future was obviously underrated by Ted Thompson as otherwise wouldn't he have secured the Moss deal?

Ted Thompson went to sleep on that one.

Every week that Randy Moss demonstrates to us his outstanding skills and leadership and his creditable attitude towords winning for the NE Patriots. Places more emphasis on the fact that Ted Thompson blew that one BIG TIME.


YOU of all people know he blew that one. So it's simple mj. JUST simply ADMIT IT mj. Be honest. :)

It has to be difficult for you to come to the TRUTH. Especially given that I oppose Ted Thompson with a passion based in my close observation of his incompetence mj.

Still mj:

DID TT BLOW or NOT BLOW on the Randy Moss to Green Bay deal, that you and I and many other's here; and especially Brett Favre we're so passionate about?

YES or NO.

It's not an essay question mj.

PACKERS FOREVER.

[MJZiggy]

I'm curious...what more should he have done? Which risk should he have taken?

He screwed up on missing out on Randy Moss.Try harder to get off that horse for once and simply show the parts to admit that is a fact mj.

Ted Thompson blew the Randy Moss (possible signingù); because he made an assumption that he had that deal set in place, without the proper follow-up. The importance of closing that deal meant, for our team and it's future was obviously underrated by Ted Thompson as otherwise wouldn't he have secured the Moss deal?

Ted Thompson went to sleep on that one.

Every week that Randy Moss demonstrates to us his outstanding skills and leadership and his creditable attitude towords winning for the NE Patriots. Places more emphasis on the fact that Ted Thompson blew that one BIG TIME.


YOU of all people know he blew that one. So it's simple mj. JUST simply ADMIT IT mj. Be honest. :)

It has to be difficult for you to come to the TRUTH. Especially given that I oppose Ted Thompson with a passion based in my close observation of his incompetence mj.

Still mj:

DID TT BLOW or NOT BLOW on the Randy Moss to Green Bay deal, that you and I and many other's here; and especially Brett Favre we're so passionate about?

YES or NO.

It's not an essay question mj.

PACKERS FOREVER.

What is the "proper follow-up?" Follow up to say what?

[Joemailman]

Just wondering...If the Packers shut down Randy Moss in the Super Bowl, and James Jones catches the winning TD pass, was TT still wrong?

[Scott Campbell]

We certainly don't want to go there again Scott?


Sure. Why not. I really enjoyed the last beating you administered.

Like the time when you sent Harlan letter after letter after letter.........

And then you went away for a while.

:lol:

[Fred's Slacks]

OK, Thompson takes risks but no bigger risk than any other GM in the NFL. As a GM every move you make has some risk involved. But when you think about it, how much risk was he really taking with the Moss and Woodson deals? I mean we were offering a 5th for Moss. A 5th round choice for one of the most talented receivers in the league. And it was contingent on him tearing up his contract and signing a new one. Where's the risk? If he pans out, you're golden. If not, you let him walk the following year. With Woodson we signed him to a front loaded contract (like the deal we offered Arrington). If he flops, we cut him with little salary cap ramifications. We had plenty of cap room in the first year to absorb the hit. These were not high risk moves.

I am definitely not attacking him for not taking risks. I think he's doing a fantastic job. He seems slow, but only because he trusts his skill as a talent evaluator and knows he's going to fill the roster with talent. He doesn't need to rush to grab the next hot free agent because he knows that when you rush, you make mistakes.

[Partial]

Why do we need Moss? I don't get it? Our receiving corps is the BEST in the NFL and nothing short of dynamic. Moss would just take up more of our cap room and stunt the development of our youngsters.

Instead of Jennings having 12 TDs, Moss would have 12. That is the only difference imo. We might have a better record but does it really matter at this point? We're a good team.

[MJZiggy]

I think the difference between Woodson and Moss was that Woodson wanted to come here. We were willing to let him play corner (and what a boneheaded decision that turned out to be...) and he had a chip on his shoulder. The contract itself was brilliantly worked and everybody's happy.

Moss wanted to be in NE. He was unwilling to rework the deal for us from what I've read and the minute he got the chance to go where he wanted to, he jumped at it. I wonder if in hindsight, it would still make that much difference to him. Not like we're that far behind the Pats and it seems to me like our guys are having a LOT more fun.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Just wondering...If the Packers shut down Randy Moss in the Super Bowl, and James Jones catches the winning TD pass, was TT still wrong?

Yes. What don't you understand?

[Carolina_Packer]

Who cares at this point what happened with Moss? That ship has sailed, so whining about it won't get it back. Move on. If you want to play gotcha on moves that a GM should have made, go ahead, but it's not very convincing when the team we all pull for is 12-2, despite not having closed the deal you want to keep talking about.

TT doesn't deserve ALL the credit, just what is due to him. What he can and does control he's had way more hits than misses. If the guys he's put on and kept on the roster couldn't play, even a good coach like McCarthy probably wouldn't be coaching them to a 12-2 record.

[woodbuck27]

I'm curious...what more should he have done? Which risk should he have taken?

He screwed up on missing out on Randy Moss.Try harder to get off that horse for once and simply show the parts to admit that is a fact mj.

Ted Thompson blew the Randy Moss (possible signingù); because he made an assumption that he had that deal set in place, without the proper follow-up. The importance of closing that deal meant, for our team and it's future was obviously underrated by Ted Thompson as otherwise wouldn't he have secured the Moss deal?

Ted Thompson went to sleep on that one.

Every week that Randy Moss demonstrates to us his outstanding skills and leadership and his creditable attitude towords winning for the NE Patriots. Places more emphasis on the fact that Ted Thompson blew that one BIG TIME.


YOU of all people know he blew that one. So it's simple mj. JUST simply ADMIT IT mj. Be honest. :)

It has to be difficult for you to come to the TRUTH. Especially given that I oppose Ted Thompson with a passion based in my close observation of his incompetence mj.

Still mj:

DID TT BLOW or NOT BLOW on the Randy Moss to Green Bay deal, that you and I and many other's here; and especially Brett Favre we're so passionate about?

YES or NO.

It's not an essay question mj.

PACKERS FOREVER.

What is the "proper follow -up?" Follow up to say what?

CVCan't you simply admit that Ted Thompson blew on that weak attempt to acquire Randy Moss.

It's baqck to that Poker game analogy mj.

Sometimes a decent poker player has to go all in when the value is in the hand and the pot will reward.

Ted Thompson wasn't in the game on that hand mj. A goo0d GM can,t be3 that and half heartedly go about his business.

People here still want to make Moss out to be the bad boy and he,s obviously the best WR in the NFL.

I won't even debate with these types that are so Redneckish in their attitude's about certain noteable stars in the NFL that it's just ridiculous to bother trying to convince them otherwise.

I'll adopt the stance as a rule for me on this suspiscion (ONLY).

A Redneck. Always a Redneck.

Maybe they are just in denial. Randy Moss is awesome.

We could have had him and not New England if Ted Thompson wa half into his job.

If I wanted to take the time to really show all here just how ordinary at best he is as a GM it would be too embarassing for a lot of very solid people here except for their fairy dust eyes for Ted Thompson. :)

Your one of them mj.

One of the blind?

Why do I see it so differently than a lot of other's here mj. In really pay attention to all things Packer.I've watched this man,s every NOT move since his arrival.

I have little use for him. I don't TRUST him. I think he could have drafted a lot better than he's demonstrated.

Especially given theat wonderful resume.

Clearly Randy Moss could have helped us and not made NE as strong as we now see them.

What . . . I believe yesterday it was 1-8 favourites to win the Super Bowl. Bet 8 dollars to win 1 dollar. That's just sick.

Did TT blow it on Moss?

[Bretsky]

Just wondering...If the Packers shut down Randy Moss in the Super Bowl, and James Jones catches the winning TD pass, was TT still wrong?

I guess that might be a good compromise if you will admit he was wrong by not signing him if NE does win it all and Moss catches the winning TD pass :lol:

Seriously, overall TT has done a very good job of rebuilding this roster. Every GM will make mistakes. It's part of the game.


If somebody asks me on the street where TT erred, it would be my view that the two mistakes I see were not securing Moss and drafting Harrell. But I liked Meachem....although it appears there might be character flaws on him that I could not see since I'm just a fan and don't get to look at his personality...etc.

Just my view, and I certainly will entertain the possibility that Harrell can still develop and be a very good pick.

IMO Leaper was the guy who had this pegged from the start. He liked Reggie Nelson as our pick well before the draft. If I could do it again I'd make Reggie Nelson a Packer.


Cheers,
B

[Bretsky]

Who cares at this point what happened with Moss? That ship has sailed, so whining about it won't get it back. Move on. If you want to play gotcha on moves that a GM should have made, go ahead, but it's not very convincing when the team we all pull for is 12-2, despite not having closed the deal you want to keep talking about.

TT doesn't deserve ALL the credit, just what is due to him. What he can and does control he's had way more hits than misses. If the guys he's put on and kept on the roster couldn't play, even a good coach like McCarthy probably wouldn't be coaching them to a 12-2 record.

BINGO

[Scott Campbell]

I hope my golden years aren't spent in the fog of bewilderment - like Woody's.

[Scott Campbell]

I just got tired of making a fool out of you.

We certainly don't want to go there again Scott?

I don't think so, Eh?




Woody has that Canadian Mounty bluster, but he was hurt very badly.



Yeah, you really got the best of me last time.

:roll:

[MJZiggy]

CVCan't you simply admit that Ted Thompson blew on that weak attempt to acquire Randy Moss.

It's baqck to that Poker game analogy mj.

Sometimes a decent poker player has to go all in when the value is in the hand and the pot will reward.

Ted Thompson wasn't in the game on that hand mj. A goo0d GM can,t be3 that and half heartedly go about his business.



Define "all in." If you wanna convince me TT made a mistake, you're gonna have to convince me of what mistake he made, not make poker analogies. I don't want "shoulda got him," You think he made a mistake, I want you to tell me EXACTLY what he did wrong. So define it for me.

[Deputy Nutz]

CVCan't you simply admit that Ted Thompson blew on that weak attempt to acquire Randy Moss.

It's baqck to that Poker game analogy mj.

Sometimes a decent poker player has to go all in when the value is in the hand and the pot will reward.

Ted Thompson wasn't in the game on that hand mj. A goo0d GM can,t be3 that and half heartedly go about his business.



Define "all in." If you wanna convince me TT made a mistake, you're gonna have to convince me of what mistake he made, not make poker analogies. I don't want "shoulda got him," You think he made a mistake, I want you to tell me EXACTLY what he did wrong. So define it for me.

Two teams were actively bidding on Moss, two, the Pats, and the Pack. I guess along with the Packers there were 30 other teams out their that had GMs that blew it with Randy Moss. Even considering bringing Randy Moss in to Green Bay was a huge step, Randy Moss isn't the most liked player that has ever graced Lambeau Field, and image the media outcry if Randy Moss proved to be a jack off in Green Bay? Thompson would have been hanged in effigy.

But you don't want to see that side, do you Woody? You simply want to be an attention whore by keeping up the same argument over and over again. Like I said if you're so much of a fucking idiot that you can't see past Randy fucking Moss, then you better question what kind of fucking Packer fan you are.

[b bulldog]

Nutz, you sure like the F word, don't you? :no:

[Deputy Nutz]

Nutz, you sure like the F word, don't you? :no:

I only used it three times, and I never use it in articles.

[Tarlam!]

I never understand why Nutz holds back with his opinions. For such a knowledgeable fan, I can't but help feeling he sits on the fence far too often.

:bclap: Great post, Nutz!

[packrat]

TT does get ALL the credit. Sure, MM has done a great job, but if it was up to me we'd have taken Bates and other posters might even have taken Childress. Sure Jennings and Jones have done a great job, and Grant has contributed, but without TT who would we have? Green and Walker, like other posters pounded the table for? The buck stops on TT's desk--screw up and he gets the blame. 14-2 and he gets the credit. A team is the sum of its players and coaches and only one person decides who they are, so only one person gets the credit for the sum of the parts.

[woodbuck27]

I hope my golden years aren't spent in the fog of bewilderment - like Woody's.

Scott. Got any friends? :) By the way Merry Christmas Scott.

You must have caught me on a really bad day earlier this week, as I don't allow chumps like you to ever get to me. You are one regular bite in the arse AO though sonny. :)

I'd loved to have come across you in the old neighborhood. I re-call what we did to straighten people like you out before they got to what you have become Scott.

SADLY - a mess.

[woodbuck27]

I just got tired of making a fool out of you.

We certainly don't want to go there again Scott?

I don't think so, Eh?




Woody has that Canadian Mounty bluster, but he was hurt very badly.



Yeah, you really got the best of me last time.

:roll:

NO SCOTT YOU GOT THE BEST of YOUR DELUDED SELF.

YOU exposed just what YOU are to Harlan and I.

The rest of the Forum was kept away fr. the facts through OUR pity for YOU Scott; our compassion and grace spared you any reputation of decency you may need to preserve here. NOT deserve to maintain.

As a matter of fact you allowed your click here to believe that Harlan was the bad guy and that realy burned me. Harlan stayed strong through all of that bullshit and you go away with your crap ways Scott free. Pardon the pun.

I'm so sick of you Scott. This won't be done behind the scenes anymore if you call it. It will be right out in the open. YOU CAN't HANDLE THAT Scott.

YOUR absolutely corrupt. NO GOOD !! SCOTT CAMPBELL. WEAK.

So piss off sonny or I'll take it right at YOU.Right in full view of all here to see. The thread count for this one will really grow if you want it to Scott.

TRUST just this .YOU won't like it Scott. NOT IN YOUR PSYCHE. You'll explode all over yourself. You always have once your backed into a corner.

It's entirely YOUR call - your poison Scott. I'm really tired of your crap. I place YOU in the worst category of all people Scott Campbell.

So bring it on small man if you desire to play the fool again. I've had it with your stupidity. 8-)

[woodbuck27]

CVCan't you simply admit that Ted Thompson blew on that weak attempt to acquire Randy Moss.

It's baqck to that Poker game analogy mj.

Sometimes a decent poker player has to go all in when the value is in the hand and the pot will reward.

Ted Thompson wasn't in the game on that hand mj. A goo0d GM can,t be3 that and half heartedly go about his business.



Define "all in." If you wanna convince me TT made a mistake, you're gonna have to convince me of what mistake he made, not make poker analogies. I don't want "shoulda got him," You think he made a mistake, I want you to tell me EXACTLY what he did wrong. So define it for me.

Two teams were actively bidding on Moss, two, the Pats, and the Pack. I guess along with the Packers there were 30 other teams out their that had GMs that blew it with Randy Moss. Even considering bringing Randy Moss in to Green Bay was a huge step, Randy Moss isn't the most liked player that has ever graced Lambeau Field, and image the media outcry if Randy Moss proved to be a jack off in Green Bay? Thompson would have been hanged in effigy.

But you don't want to see that side, do you Woody? You simply want to be an attention whore by keeping up the same argument over and over again. Like I said if you're so much of a fucking idiot that you can't see past Randy fucking Moss, then you better question what kind of fucking Packer fan you are.

Hey Nutz.

Don't lay your heavy handed weak ass BS on me. Who in hell do you think you are? Were you into the sauce when you made that post. Your certainly not goin to challenge me successfully Nutz with your onipotence that is tired.

I'll take my position with OUR GM just as I see it Nutz.

You are over the top too prejudiced on the likes of Randy Moss and Terrell Owens to possible question whether or not your a bigot and a Redneck? Don't ever imagine that your tactics and I have to take stock of my Packer fanism will ever shake with me.

I'm as solid a Packer fan as you are mister, and just as qualified to use whatever I see as proof that Ted Thompson isn't the best slice of cheese so far in his tenure as our GM.

Maybe we should take a really close lookat all those terrific draft picks.ealy examine him for what is deemed noteable about his skills as a GM.

What a joke that will make of the delusion Ted Thompson and Master of the Draft that exists and deludes so many on this forum except those of us that have no fear to express the facts.

Nutz.You have never intimadated me Man. Get that and straighten up. :)

PACKERS FOREVER!

[woodbuck27]

Why does it always seem to get here? :

Woodbuck27

Vs

Tarlam! and Nutz and Scott Campbell. Almost the three Amigo's ??
No. Not nearly as much fun, and only half a scary.

So. . what's that I see? Ohhh Noooo ! NOT the Packerrat mafia now ? Heaven's sake I'd better duck, Haha.

I'm trembling in my boots. :)

[MJZiggy]

Why does it always seem to get here? :

Woodbuck27

Vs

Tarlam! and Nutz and Scott Campbell. Almost the three Amigo's ??
No. Not nearly as mich fun, only half a scary. :D

So. . what's that I see? Ohhh Noooo ! NOT the Packerrat mafia now ? Heaven's sake I'd better duck, Haha.

I'm trembling in my boots. :) :) :)

Ok, forget those 3 for a minute. You still haven't answered my question. If you want me to buy your schtick you're going to have to answer it and questioning my intelligence if I don't see what you do on its face is not gonna cut it this time. Answer it and be specific. What exactly should TT have done to be more aggressive. No analogies, no generalizations, no telling me "he should have gotten it done." Rumor has it he went to bed thinking he had a deal in place so what should he have done before shutting off that light?

[woodbuck27]

Why does it always seem to get here? :

Woodbuck27

Vs

Tarlam! and Nutz and Scott Campbell. Almost the three Amigo's ??
No. Not nearly as mich fun, only half a scary. :D

So. . what's that I see? Ohhh Noooo ! NOT the Packerrat mafia now ? Heaven's sake I'd better duck, Haha.

I'm trembling in my boots. :) :) :)

Ok, forget those 3 for a minute. You still haven't answered my question. If you want me to buy your schtick you're going to have to answer it and questioning my intelligence if I don't see what you do on its face is not gonna cut it this time. Answer it and be specific. What exactly should TT have done to be more aggressive. No analogies, no generalizations, no telling me "he should have gotten it done." Rumor has it he went to bed thinking he had a deal in place so what should he have done before shutting off that light?

Easy one mj. This isn't at all even brialliant. Just simple common sense.

Secure the DAM deal not assume he had it done and hit the sack. I feel like Im repeating myself. :)

Ted Thompson makes and offer and it's simply a matter of informing the man in Oakland (wasn't it Al Davis mj?) to get back to him with all effort if any other team better's his (TT's offer).

Getting it mj??

Straight talk - straight action should follow that.

No Ted Thompson just decides to asume that he had a deal done for Randy Moss. He must have wanted him or he wouldn't have benin the market place for him.

NOT GOOD MANAGING by any means mj.

A clear screw-up.

It's not evenn debateable or is it mj?

Still having a problem here mj.Maybe it's time you slam me for being a Canadian or not really a Packer fan.

Jeeeee who's in second place in the Pickem this season (Ohhh Hank Bosch or woodbuck27) and the incumbant Champion. How can that be explained?

Let's see.

woodbuck27 - a Canadian (mmmmm pretty bright people generally) and woodbuck27 knowing the NFL and a Packer fan for at least 49 year's.

Ahhh . . .

There's the answer. It's called experience as a dedicated fan and backing myself up when I have to. I'm a fan with a sight for the facts. imagine that.

I seldom fail to back myself up mj.

[Scott Campbell]

Why does it always seem to get here? :

Woodbuck27

Vs

Tarlam! and Nutz and Scott Campbell. Almost the three Amigo's ??
No. Not nearly as much fun, and only half a scary.

So. . what's that I see? Ohhh Noooo ! NOT the Packerrat mafia now ? Heaven's sake I'd better duck, Haha.

I'm trembling in my boots. :)



Woody, it's pretty much you against yourself. I don't think you really need to worry about anybody else.

[MJZiggy]

Ted Thompson makes and offer and it's simply a matter of informing the man in Oakland (wasn't it Al Davis mj?) to get back to him with all effort if any other team better's his (TT's offer).

And you know he didn't do that how? You know that Al Davis didn't just decide not to inform him that another offer had been made exactly how? I wouldn't deem Al Davis to be the most trustworthy man in America, Buck. And you know better to think that I'd slam you for either your nationality or any other reason that didn't have anything to do with this discussion. Not my style and kind of a low shot to suggest it, don't you think? So far you've failed to back yourself up enough to convince me, though. It's gonna take better than an assumption.

[Scott Campbell]

I'm so sick of you Scott.



I LOVE you Woody.

:lol:

[packrat]

I've been in negotiations where a deal has been put on the table upon condition it be accepted NOW, without informing the other bidder, or the deal is off the table. If I was NE, that is exactly how I'd have made my offer to avoid being outbid. Does anyone have any evidence that NE said, "Here's our offer, we'll keep it open until you've shopped it around."?

[MJZiggy]

I've been in negotiations where a deal has been put on the table upon condition it be accepted NOW, without informing the other bidder, or the deal is off the table. If I was NE, that is exactly how I'd have made my offer to avoid being outbid. Does anyone have any evidence that NE said, "Here's our offer, we'll keep it open until you've shopped it around."?

Woodbuck knows what happened. He has hard proof. He's gonna share it with us any moment now.

[Bretsky]

I've been in negotiations where a deal has been put on the table upon condition it be accepted NOW, without informing the other bidder, or the deal is off the table. If I was NE, that is exactly how I'd have made my offer to avoid being outbid. Does anyone have any evidence that NE said, "Here's our offer, we'll keep it open until you've shopped it around."?


Are you saying TT should have considered doing this to avoid being New England'ed ?? :wink:

It's over; we're much better record wise then any of us thought we would be.

It's been a nice run and hopefully it'll continue for a while.

[Bretsky]

I've been in negotiations where a deal has been put on the table upon condition it be accepted NOW, without informing the other bidder, or the deal is off the table. If I was NE, that is exactly how I'd have made my offer to avoid being outbid. Does anyone have any evidence that NE said, "Here's our offer, we'll keep it open until you've shopped it around."?

Woodbuck knows what happened. He has hard proof. He's gonna share it with us any moment now.


It's all done. You don't know the exact details and neither does Woody.

But the facts show that NE got it done and GB did not.

If Woody wants to criticize TT for that fact he certainly can.

[MJZiggy]

Yes he can, but he cannot call me stupid for having a differing opinion. What you just said is exactly the point I want him to understand. He has no idea what happened any more than anyone else. Criticize if he wants, but don't call those who disagree on the same information ignorant because if he does, I for one will want to be enlightened.

[Scott Campbell]

What you just said is exactly the point I want him to understand.


What is it about Woody that makes you think he's capable of understanding anything?

[GrnBay007]

Yes he can, but he cannot call me stupid for having a differing opinion. What you just said is exactly the point I want him to understand. He has no idea what happened any more than anyone else. Criticize if he wants, but don't call those who disagree on the same information ignorant because if he does, I for one will want to be enlightened.

....and nobody has called him stupid for his views?? It has gone both ways for months and months and months.....maybe time to let it go. Why continue this battle? We are all Packer fans obviously....some people have different opinions.......and that's ok....even in real life....really!!

[Deputy Nutz]

CVCan't you simply admit that Ted Thompson blew on that weak attempt to acquire Randy Moss.

It's baqck to that Poker game analogy mj.

Sometimes a decent poker player has to go all in when the value is in the hand and the pot will reward.

Ted Thompson wasn't in the game on that hand mj. A goo0d GM can,t be3 that and half heartedly go about his business.



Define "all in." If you wanna convince me TT made a mistake, you're gonna have to convince me of what mistake he made, not make poker analogies. I don't want "shoulda got him," You think he made a mistake, I want you to tell me EXACTLY what he did wrong. So define it for me.

Two teams were actively bidding on Moss, two, the Pats, and the Pack. I guess along with the Packers there were 30 other teams out their that had GMs that blew it with Randy Moss. Even considering bringing Randy Moss in to Green Bay was a huge step, Randy Moss isn't the most liked player that has ever graced Lambeau Field, and image the media outcry if Randy Moss proved to be a jack off in Green Bay? Thompson would have been hanged in effigy.

But you don't want to see that side, do you Woody? You simply want to be an attention whore by keeping up the same argument over and over again. Like I said if you're so much of a fucking idiot that you can't see past Randy fucking Moss, then you better question what kind of fucking Packer fan you are.

Hey Nutz.

Don't lay your heavy handed weak ass BS on me. Who in hell do you think you are? Were you into the sauce when you made that post. Your certainly not goin to challenge me successfully Nutz with your onipotence that is tired.

I'll take my position with OUR GM just as I see it Nutz.

You are over the top too prejudiced on the likes of Randy Moss and Terrell Owens to possible question whether or not your a bigot and a Redneck? Don't ever imagine that your tactics and I have to take stock of my Packer fanism will ever shake with me.

I'm as solid a Packer fan as you are mister, and just as qualified to use whatever I see as proof that Ted Thompson isn't the best slice of cheese so far in his tenure as our GM.

Maybe we should take a really close lookat all those terrific draft picks.ealy examine him for what is deemed noteable about his skills as a GM.

What a joke that will make of the delusion Ted Thompson and Master of the Draft that exists and deludes so many on this forum except those of us that have no fear to express the facts.

Nutz.You have never intimadated me Man. Get that and straighten up. :)

PACKERS FOREVER!

Take your emoticons and shove them, I look to intimidate nobody on a fucking fan forum you delusional retard. Don't tell me what to look like and don't question if I am redneck or a bigot because I see reason why Ted Thompson didn't trade or sign a black player, that is as ridiculous as all the other Bull shit you attempt.

Seriously you are a fucking joke around here, nobody takes you seriously anymore because you turn every conversation into a hate filled speech about Ted Thompson, not unlike Tank, sad is you, actually thinking you make sense.

What makes sense to me is 12-3, bottom line look at the numbers, I guess you let other things cloud your vision as you attempt to look intelligent by side stepping the obvious turn around of this franchise.

I never tried to convince you, I just wanted to make sure nobody else around he bought into your heretical nonsense. Seems the support I have gotten previously in this thread for my responses have been nothing but positive, not that I need anyone to tell me, but I don't see anyone jumping to your side of things, maybe you should find a smarter Packer Forum, I believe Tank is still running around JSO, you could hook up with him, and each of you could post everyday this misgivings of Ted Thompson.

I suppose you got what you wanted, another loss to prove your point that Ted Thomson is the joke you believe he is to be. Thanks for rooting against the Pack for your own selfish reasons.

[packinpatland]

Can you believe we're in the supposed 'season of joy'? :roll:

[Deputy Nutz]

Can you believe we're in the supposed 'season of joy'? :roll:

Are you talking about the Packers season of joy? Or the holiday season of joy?

[RashanGary]

Woodbuck, you have always had the decency to treat people directly rather than in sneaky backhanded ways. Whether I disagree or agree with you, I have absolutely no need to fight back because I don't feel like you've ever treated me with disrespect and I'm the biggest Thompson lover of them all so I think I have credibility when it comes to relevant criticism.


I didn't liek the quality christian remark because I knew it was meant to stir shit but other than that, I've always felt you make the forum more fun and interesting.


In defense of the attacks on you, I think people get rolling with the mob mentality or they feel they need to redeem themselves so they might be harder on you than you deserve. I don't think you should feel defensive, but I know how you would. There are some posters who's personalites just urk me. Anything they say to me bothers the piss out of me :) Don't let a couple people get to you Woody. They aren't even really attacking you. I know I'll say things that are jabs but I don't even really want to jab at the person, I'm just wanting to prove an old point and maybe rub it in a little :). That's probably what everyone is doing to you.

[GrnBay007]

Can you believe we're in the supposed 'season of joy'? :roll:

Unreal, huh?


What makes sense to me is 12-3

That's all that should make sense to all Packer fans. Why argue the silly BS?

The TT argument has become similar to religion and politics......after 94 months it's time to agree to disagree.

[Bretsky]

Yes he can, but he cannot call me stupid for having a differing opinion. What you just said is exactly the point I want him to understand. He has no idea what happened any more than anyone else. Criticize if he wants, but don't call those who disagree on the same information ignorant because if he does, I for one will want to be enlightened.

....and nobody has called him stupid for his views?? It has gone both ways for months and months and months.....maybe time to let it go. Why continue this battle? We are all Packer fans obviously....some people have different opinions.......and that's ok....even in real life....really!!
\

:bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap:

[Deputy Nutz]

Yes he can, but he cannot call me stupid for having a differing opinion. What you just said is exactly the point I want him to understand. He has no idea what happened any more than anyone else. Criticize if he wants, but don't call those who disagree on the same information ignorant because if he does, I for one will want to be enlightened.

....and nobody has called him stupid for his views?? It has gone both ways for months and months and months.....maybe time to let it go. Why continue this battle? We are all Packer fans obviously....some people have different opinions.......and that's ok....even in real life....really!!
\

:bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap:

I know you Bret, and this isn't how you really feel.

[b bulldog]

What the hell ios going on with all of you???? We lose a game and all of this breaks out. I love to stir things up some and I try to be very relistic on the Pack but we are all on the same side here.

[Bretsky]

Yes he can, but he cannot call me stupid for having a differing opinion. What you just said is exactly the point I want him to understand. He has no idea what happened any more than anyone else. Criticize if he wants, but don't call those who disagree on the same information ignorant because if he does, I for one will want to be enlightened.

....and nobody has called him stupid for his views?? It has gone both ways for months and months and months.....maybe time to let it go. Why continue this battle? We are all Packer fans obviously....some people have different opinions.......and that's ok....even in real life....really!!
\

:bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap:

I know you Bret, and this isn't how you really feel.


I think it is Xmas and we should all let the bad thoughts go. It's gone both ways over and over. Regardless of who was right or wrong, I've noticed JH and RG seems to have put things behind and show no ill will on the forum. They serve as a good example.

[Deputy Nutz]

JustinHarrell Will never be a good example on this forum.

[b bulldog]

What about me, I'm a good example :lol:

[Deputy Nutz]

What about me, I'm a good example :lol:

watch yourself....

[b bulldog]

You curse too much but I enjoy your posts

[Deputy Nutz]

You curse too much but I enjoy your posts

I have actually gotten better with the cursing!!! I swear that I have!

[Bretsky]

You curse too much but I enjoy your posts

I have actually gotten better with the cursing!!! I swear that I have!



I think you have as well; Nuts is a really cool sh@t if you meet him in person.
Dude can drink too.

Cheers,
B

[Deputy Nutz]

Ok, the sad thing is I read JH's post, I was disgusted mostly, but anyways. It got me thinking, I usually think Woodbuck is off the wall, but a nice enough guy, so he refuses to see or understand the effects of Ted Thompson, so what.

I am done with the bullshit.

[MJZiggy]

Yes he can, but he cannot call me stupid for having a differing opinion. What you just said is exactly the point I want him to understand. He has no idea what happened any more than anyone else. Criticize if he wants, but don't call those who disagree on the same information ignorant because if he does, I for one will want to be enlightened.

....and nobody has called him stupid for his views?? It has gone both ways for months and months and months.....maybe time to let it go. Why continue this battle? We are all Packer fans obviously....some people have different opinions.......and that's ok....even in real life....really!!
\

:bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap:

Just for the record, while you're clapping and applauding that somebody has called Woody stupid in the past, I'd like to point out that it wasn't me--even though our friend on quite a number of occasions including in this thread has suggested that I personally lack intelligence because I questioned his take on the facts. I haven't called him stupid, nor do I call anyone else around here names and I don't feel I should be criticized for defending myself against his attacks on my intelligence. I'm with Nutz. I'm done with this crap. And for the record, he still hasn't answered my question. The one that in no way ever questioned his intelligence or suggested that he wise up to anything I tell him to believe.

[Carolina_Packer]

If you want to pick nits with the GM at 12-3, go ahead. You might be on a small island by yourself. Having Randy Moss on our team may not have brought one more win than we already have to date, and that's the bottom line...wins.

Is making this argument so constantly and with such animosity so important to you and your position? A few months ago there was a discussion about someone here not acting very Christian-like. How does carrying on like this look for being Christian, Mr. Woodbuck?

When do you just let bygones be bygones and not carry on your arguments ad nauseum? The Pack is 12-3, going to the playoffs as a #2 seed, and probably would have anyway, as our chances of being #1 were slim anyway. Why can't you just show some happiness about where the team is, and give credit to those who made that possible? Instead, you just have to maintain an argument for argument's sake. Where is that getting you? How does that make you look like a positive fan?

[FritzDontBlitz]

Fascinating stuff, kids. I've let a few responses get under my skin from time to time as well, so I kinda understand. I also think some of the hostility brewing in this thread is due to the way the Packers lost to their most hated rival today. But, having said all that I do agree that its a dead issue wasting time arguing the "what ifs" about Randy Moss. I was hot for Moss too. We wanted him. We didn't get him. End of story.

There is plenty of evidence on display to show TT is doing a good job as GM and deserves a little credit for the direction the team is heading in. 4-12 to 8-8 to 12-3 records. A no-nonsense head coach who turns the youngest team in the league into the 2nd best team in the NFC in just his second year. Ryan Grant. Greg Jennings. AJ Hawk. Charles Woodson. James Jones. The resurgence of Brett Favre. Hanging on to Blackmon when other GM's might have given up on him. Keeping 11 defensive linemen on the roster on opening day. The way he uses the IR list to rehab young, promising players like Brady Poppinga and Deshawn Wynn to give them more time to grow into the players he brought them in to be. These are the moves from someone who has a good idea how he wants his team to look, and although its still a work in progress it does seem that the plan is working, at least to me. None of us were expecting a playoff team in 2007, much less a team that was 2 games away from a possible #1 seed come Christmas time.

I am satisfied with the job TT is doing, even though some refuse to give him any credit for anything. I won't waste time debating the "should haves" and "what ifs." I will just savor the hope he has brought for the future of this franchise as we come to the close of a totally unexpected thrill ride of a season.

Merry Christmas, kids. And play nice, OK?

[RashanGary]

Not to turn this into a Woodbuck love fest, but I really like his confidence to stand up for his opinions. I esspecially liek that he does it without really jabbing hard at people. He has his ways, but until tonight, they are mostly fun and acctually quite observant and clever at times. There were times where he called me out in Woodbuck fashion, calling me sunny or telling me to get off my high horse and I just read it and laughed because he hit the nail right on the head and it was funny because the quality, whatever it was (I forget) was very human and things that are stereotypical are funny to me. They're even funnier when I'm caught doing them because I'm supposed to be aware. I didn't get all pissed, I just laughed because I know he knew and he knew I knew he knew.

Seems like this thread was just people trying to get (what seems obvious) pounded into Woody's head and in the process Woodbuck got offended and then started tossing some of his first pissed off come backs that acctually were a little edged. That's not typical Woodbuck though. I do think that some of the aggressiveness that people use toward Woodbuck is misplaced (meant for other TT haters who were rude ass holes for months and months). Woodbuck is one of the few Anti Ted guys left, but he wasn't one of the belittling, insulting ones and I think sometimes that is forgotten and all of the bad qualities that came from the anti TT crowd get bunched on one of the decent members who's still standing.

[Tarlam!]

So if I held a mirror up to you by attacking you back, you needn't have been shocked or surprised. But, this is the last post I will direct at you or anything you post. You are cyber-dead to me, Woody.

I am through with you.


EDITED: The original post, though honest, was likely offensive to other posters. Out of respect to those posters, I withdraw those comments and leave it this. My apologies to those posters that might have been offended by my original post.

[RashanGary]

Well, I'm off. I personally think Woodbuck just likes to have a little fun. It seems like his attacks are satire more than real attacks. The tone isn't mean spirited (untill tonight. He really seems offended now). I think he's just having fun because the things he says and some of the things he prys at are too meaningfull for it to just be an accident. I think he finds humor in real people being real.

[SkinBasket]

I think he's just having fun because the things he says and some of the things he prys at are too meaningfull for it to just be an accident.

Dumbest fucking thing I've heard all hear, and it's almost the end of the year.

[Scott Campbell]

EDITED: The original post, though honest, was likely offensive to other posters. Out of respect to those posters, I withdraw those comments and leave it this.




Tease.

[RashanGary]

I think he's just having fun because the things he says and some of the things he prys at are too meaningfull for it to just be an accident.

Dumbest fucking thing I've heard all hear, and it's almost the end of the year.

Skinbasket, do you see the "I think" in my post? I don't think my opinion was sharp, pointed, arrogant, or anything remotely offensive. Because I havn't offended you in anyway, I wonder why you attack me like this?

I see Woodbuck differently than you. I know what it's like to be misunderstood, so I see Woodbuck as a guy who is sometimes misunderstood as well. Peoples thoughts, actions or intentions can vary greatly from the perceived norm. I don't see how it's possible for you to know the answers to this, and you didn't even give an opinion. All you did was throw out an unprovoked attack.

I feel offended. As hard as I am when I feel someon is being belitting, jugemental, sarcastic or arrogant, I like to think I'm decent to those who are decent to me. Woodbuck is one of those people, so it bothers me to see him getting beat up a little (even thought people aren't really trying to beat him up, they are probably jsut frustrated with him, but it's coming accross differently than that the way I see it) I think it's going a little far for a guy who I think is decent.

[Deputy Nutz]

You curse too much but I enjoy your posts

I have actually gotten better with the cursing!!! I swear that I have!



I think you have as well; Nuts is a really cool sh@t if you meet him in person.
Dude can drink too.

Cheers,
B

You forgot to mention how attractive I am to hot Asian chicks. They can't resist me.

[SkinBasket]

I think he's just having fun because the things he says and some of the things he prys at are too meaningfull for it to just be an accident.

Dumbest fucking thing I've heard all hear, and it's almost the end of the year.

Skinbasket, do you see the "I think" in my post? I don't think my opinion was sharp, pointed, arrogant, or anything remotely offensive. Because I havn't offended you in anyway, I wonder why you attack me like this?

I see Woodbuck differently than you. I know what it's like to be misunderstood, so I see Woodbuck as a guy who is sometimes misunderstood as well. Peoples thoughts, actions or intentions can vary greatly from the perceived norm. I don't see how it's possible for you to know the answers to this, and you didn't even give an opinion. All you did was throw out an unprovoked attack.

I feel offended. As hard as I am when I feel someon is being belitting, jugemental, sarcastic or arrogant, I like to think I'm decent to those who are decent to me. Woodbuck is one of those people, so it bothers me to see him getting beat up a little (even thought people aren't really trying to beat him up, they are probably jsut frustrated with him, but it's coming accross differently than that the way I see it) I think it's going a little far for a guy who I think is decent.

Oh enough with the "poor misunderstood me" bit. You both say stupid shit to provoke a reaction, then you cry when the reaction isn't what you were fishing for.

In the spirit of Christmas how about I amend my statement? I think what you said was dumbest fucking thing I've heard all hear, and it's almost the end of the year. You feel less "offended" by my opinion now?

[RashanGary]

Skin, the way you talk, you must think you're the smartest person you've ever met. Think about that, skinbasket. Think about how much you think you know and most of the things you think you know, I think neither of us knows. I don't think your loud, aggressive attitude shows what you think it shows. I think it shows quite the opposite, but I'm not about to get in a spitting match with you. I'm offended that you would attack me when it was unprovoked. Ultimately, I think it's not based in any level of knowledge or reasonable deduction, but I still have enough testosterone to want to slap the grin off your face from time to time.

EDIT: Merry Christmas A hole :)

[b bulldog]

It's Christmas fella's :lol:

[Joemailman]

Yeah, come on guys. Peace On Earth. Good will towards men (and women). :D

[KYPack]

Yeah.

This is where the cool kids are hanging out, eh?

Really, Merry Christmas to everybody, Skin & Woody included.

Have a Holiday shot on me, Nutz.

I'm goin' to Lambeau, Sunday. I'll try to bring home a winnah!

[SkinBasket]

Skin, the way you talk, you must think you're the smartest person you've ever met.... blah blah blah

No. Just smarter than you. But that doesn't make me feel any better about myself.



EDIT: Merry Christmas A hole :)

Samesies.

[MJZiggy]

Geez, even the Red Baron and Snoopy gave it a rest on Christmas...! :P

In case you guys didn't read it, here's something I though was really cool.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3166921

[Deputy Nutz]

Skin, the way you talk, you must think you're the smartest person you've ever met. Think about that, skinbasket. Think about how much you think you know and most of the things you think you know, I think neither of us knows. I don't think your loud, aggressive attitude shows what you think it shows. I think it shows quite the opposite, but I'm not about to get in a spitting match with you. I'm offended that you would attack me when it was unprovoked. Ultimately, I think it's not based in any level of knowledge or reasonable deduction, but I still have enough testosterone to want to slap the grin off your face from time to time.

EDIT: Merry Christmas A hole :)


9 "thinks" in there. I think you think too much.

[Joemailman]

Geez, even the Red Baron and Snoopy gave it a rest on Christmas...! :P

Which reminds me of one of my favorite stories:

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=247

[coolman3]

Just read this whole thread.

Damn. Tank must have done a good job with his Anti-Polar Bear stuff. Thompson proponents seem to be saying that you are not a Packer fan if you criticize TT.

I think TT has done a nice job, but he isn't by any mean flawless.

[MJZiggy]

Just read this whole thread.

Damn. Tank must have done a good job with his Anti-Polar Bear stuff. Thompson proponents seem to be saying that you are not a Packer fan if you criticize TT.


Not sure I'd go quite that far, Tank's been gone for a while, but there was a bit of, shall we say, heated debate over the summer and sometimes things just sort of carry over...

[4and12to12and4]

Holy Shnickeys, I also just read this whole thread. Didn't realize this was going on. I stopped going to a certain forum because this shit happened constantly, and when I started coming here I loved the great sense of humor everyone had, and how nobody took themselves seriously. How about getting back to that? :cry: Merry Christmas you guys!! Hey, we're going to the playoffs, and we don't even have to play in the first week!! Isn't that awesome????!!!!

Anyways, I love you guys, and you all love each other, so quit pretending you're mad at each other, you know how you REALLY feel. :oops:

[4and12to12and4]

I think some here are just mad because they have to see their family this week!! :lol:

Take it out on your in-laws, not you're Packer family!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bretsky]

Just read this whole thread.

Damn. Tank must have done a good job with his Anti-Polar Bear stuff. Thompson proponents seem to be saying that you are not a Packer fan if you criticize TT.

I think TT has done a nice job, but he isn't by any mean flawless.

No he is not; everybody makes mistakes and when they hit they get credit and if they miss they get blame

[SkinBasket]

Just read this whole thread.

Damn. Tank must have done a good job with his Anti-Polar Bear stuff. Thompson proponents seem to be saying that you are not a Packer fan if you criticize TT.

I think TT has done a nice job, but he isn't by any mean flawless.

What are you talking about? This thread isn't about TT. This thread is about Woody. TT just happens to be a convenient backdrop for him right now.

[Tarlam!]

Damn. Tank must have done a good job with his Anti-Polar Bear stuff. Thompson proponents seem to be saying that you are not a Packer fan if you criticize TT.

I think TT has done a nice job, but he isn't by any mean flawless.

You mention Tank a lot in your posts. :?:

[Scott Campbell]

Coldplay sucks.

[Zool]

Its nice to get daddy's cash sometimes though, and pretend you're going to pay it back.

[Scott Campbell]

So. . what's that I see? Ohhh Noooo ! NOT the Packerrat mafia now ?



Hey Woody - heard the one about the Maritimes Godfather?


He made them an offer they couldn't understand.

[Joemailman]

Just read this whole thread.

Damn. Tank must have done a good job with his Anti-Polar Bear stuff. Thompson proponents seem to be saying that you are not a Packer fan if you criticize TT.

I think TT has done a nice job, but he isn't by any mean flawless.

What are you talking about? This thread isn't about TT. This thread is about Woody. TT just happens to be a convenient backdrop for him right now.

Actually, I think Woody is TT. He just stirs things up to see how much support he has in Forumland.

[woodbuck27]

CVCan't you simply admit that Ted Thompson blew on that weak attempt to acquire Randy Moss.

It's baqck to that Poker game analogy mj.

Sometimes a decent poker player has to go all in when the value is in the hand and the pot will reward.

Ted Thompson wasn't in the game on that hand mj. A goo0d GM can,t be3 that and half heartedly go about his business.



Define "all in." If you wanna convince me TT made a mistake, you're gonna have to convince me of what mistake he made, not make poker analogies. I don't want "shoulda got him," You think he made a mistake, I want you to tell me EXACTLY what he did wrong. So define it for me.

Two teams were actively bidding on Moss, two, the Pats, and the Pack. I guess along with the Packers there were 30 other teams out their that had GMs that blew it with Randy Moss. Even considering bringing Randy Moss in to Green Bay was a huge step, Randy Moss isn't the most liked player that has ever graced Lambeau Field, and image the media outcry if Randy Moss proved to be a jack off in Green Bay? Thompson would have been hanged in effigy.

But you don't want to see that side, do you Woody? You simply want to be an attention whore by keeping up the same argument over and over again. Like I said if you're so much of a fucking idiot that you can't see past Randy fucking Moss, then you better question what kind of fucking Packer fan you are.

Hey Nutz.

Don't lay your heavy handed weak ass BS on me. Who in hell do you think you are? Were you into the sauce when you made that post. Your certainly not goin to challenge me successfully Nutz with your onipotence that is tired.

I'll take my position with OUR GM just as I see it Nutz.

You are over the top too prejudiced on the likes of Randy Moss and Terrell Owens to possible question whether or not your a bigot and a Redneck? Don't ever imagine that your tactics and I have to take stock of my Packer fanism will ever shake with me.

I'm as solid a Packer fan as you are mister, and just as qualified to use whatever I see as proof that Ted Thompson isn't the best slice of cheese so far in his tenure as our GM.

Maybe we should take a really close lookat all those terrific draft picks.ealy examine him for what is deemed noteable about his skills as a GM.

What a joke that will make of the delusion Ted Thompson and Master of the Draft that exists and deludes so many on this forum except those of us that have no fear to express the facts.

Nutz.You have never intimadated me Man. Get that and straighten up. :)

PACKERS FOREVER!

Take your emoticons and shove them, I look to intimidate nobody on a fucking fan forum you delusional retard. Don't tell me what to look like and don't question if I am redneck or a bigot because I see reason why Ted Thompson didn't trade or sign a black player, that is as ridiculous as all the other Bull shit you attempt.

Seriously you are a fucking joke around here, nobody takes you seriously anymore because you turn every conversation into a hate filled speech about Ted Thompson, not unlike Tank, sad is you, actually thinking you make sense.

What makes sense to me is 12-3, bottom line look at the numbers, I guess you let other things cloud your vision as you attempt to look intelligent by side stepping the obvious turn around of this franchise.

I never tried to convince you, I just wanted to make sure nobody else around he bought into your heretical nonsense. Seems the support I have gotten previously in this thread for my responses have been nothing but positive, not that I need anyone to tell me, but I don't see anyone jumping to your side of things, maybe you should find a smarter Packer Forum, I believe Tank is still running around JSO, you could hook up with him, and each of you could post everyday this misgivings of Ted Thompson.

I suppose you got what you wanted, another loss to prove your point that Ted Thomson is the joke you believe he is to be. Thanks for rooting against the Pack for your own selfish reasons.

Yup Nutz your ' the pseudo heavy' around here and I'm supposed to quake when your intimidation sets the pace in any argument that you find disfavour with? I'm not biting on that Nutz.

I'm too cool for you young man.

Nutz.

I'm a solid Packer fan and been that long before you even attempted to wipe your ass. To imply that I should leave this Packer home for another forum demonstrates some lack of maturity on your behalf Nutz and an obvious inability to cope with what I stand for.

Get a grip Nutz. Your folding up with your prejudices.

Your words are getting in the way of your reputation as a Packer fan here that is held in some esteem and deserves respect. Go all the way with that Nutz.

Just a suggestion young fella.

The heavy handedness and overt arrogance you demonstrate in your prejudices cast a cloud over you man. I have every right to be a Ted Thompson critic and It will not stop till I see this man get it a lot better than he's done to date.

Any argument that 12-3 raises the ''It's all alright with TT FLAG '' is nonsence in my view. He hasn,t demonstratesd to me the ability to get us in a position to go to the Super Bowl with some agressiveness that suits my view of what we deserve as Packer fans. What the Vet players on our team deserve.

I have been consistant and supported with just the fact in my analysis and criticisms of TT Nutz.

He's too idle. He's too non-committal in what his objectives (long and short term) are. He hasn,t the natural gift of knowing when to make a deal that obviously strengthens our team.

I canTt help but be amazed that more here don't openly support my side. I do appreciate that the world spins on more than my views and observations and hopes for change.It's just so obvious to anyone who has an open mind that he totally blew the Randy Moss venture as he is as usual only half in Nutz.

Oh. . . by the way Nutz.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Am46JjwEVEamUYFPxhqGzjWG2bYF?slug=cr-excitingfinales122707&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

'' Randy Moss, gone from dastardly devil to league darling, is two scoring catches shy of breaking Jerry Rice's single-season touchdown reception record.''

Pretty nice season Eh? Nutz. :)

I'm a NFL fan Nutz. Not just a long time dedicated as you packer fan.I love the Packers Nutz. Totally. Being an NFL fan as well assists me in being objective and open minded. I watch carefully the way other GM's and Coach's in the NFL operate.

I have to to be able to compete for the pickEm Championship.

The NFL is a major hobby of mine Nutz.

There are other members of this Forum that also deserve the same credit.

Maybe you might consider demonstrating the same talent of understanding the NFL as a whole Nutz and come on with us in the Pro PickEm?

I'd enjoy competing with you.

Would it be fair to you to imply that you we'er discusted. You may have to get used to only that man.

[Deputy Nutz]

I made my points to you Woody, and I told you and everyone else that I was finished discussing this issue with you because frankly, I can't beat stupid, now discuss whatever else you would like with me and I will be more than pleasant, but I am done discussing this issue with you because the only other way of dealing with the blind is to make fun of them and ridicule them. Now leave it alone before you alienate yourself anymore.

[The Shadow]

We win the NFC North title.
We are headed for the playoffs.
Thompson has been "too idle"??????????????????????????????????

[Deputy Nutz]

...

[woodbuck27]

Yes he can, but he cannot call me stupid for having a differing opinion. What you just said is exactly the point I want him to understand. He has no idea what happened any more than anyone else. Criticize if he wants, but don't call those who disagree on the same information ignorant because if he does, I for one will want to be enlightened.

....and nobody has called him stupid for his views?? It has gone both ways for months and months and months.....maybe time to let it go. Why continue this battle? We are all Packer fans obviously....some people have different opinions.......and that's ok....even in real life....really!!
\

:bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap:

Just for the record, while you're clapping and applauding that somebody has called Woody stupid in the past, I'd like to point out that it wasn't me--even though our friend on quite a number of occasions including in this thread has suggested that I personally lack intelligence because I questioned his take on the facts. I haven't called him stupid, nor do I call anyone else around here names and I don't feel I should be criticized for defending myself against his attacks on my intelligence. I'm with Nutz. I'm done with this crap. And for the record, he still hasn't answered my question. The one that in no way ever questioned his intelligence or suggested that he wise up to anything I tell him to believe.

mj.

Just read this post and I must respond to it.

You've got that right. I'm a long ways fr. being stupid. I rely a lot on my intelligence to help me achieve my needs. I also rely on a good personality and a sense of fairness and being Christian really help.

I'm also very patient.

I didn't think I posted or implied that anyone here is stupid or not intelligent. Stubborness and a poor sense of pride is something many here myself included are sometimes to often guilty of. I believe I'm fair.

I know I'm a gentleman in my style of posting. I admit that there are certain tensions bet. me and certain posters that I sometimes allow to get under my skin. That's there primary game and gain only if I allow them to smack down on me.

I'm irish and I will generally fight back. I have all my life. The ego is something to be constantly aware of. Mine never false. I'm in your face and will generally back myself up.

To reposition the argument and to clarify why it even began again.

There are some here that really imagine that a 12-3 record vindicates TT fully.

They laugh in the face of the TT critics (I'm certainly one) and challenge us by implying that we've disappeared in those stances against TT.

We all here are trying to enjoy 12-3. That's not good enough for some that want to put down the likes of me or other's (and our former stances and ciriticisms of TT) by implying we've disappeared. NUTS!!!!!

I personally am just trying to do precisely that. Enjoy 12-3.

These members draw the argument out again as they call us out. I'll generally stand by who I am. It's called integrity. If I lose that I lose it all.

Stupid to support TT? NO. In fact as our GM I have to support him as long as he's in that important position. He's vital for our future success as Packer fans hopingSuper Bowl.

I believe it's odd that there are some here that are still not more on my side in respect to TT and ''NO MOSS''. I realize the intimidation factor that posters like Nutz bring to the table and that many are affected by his demeanour. Hardy harrrr harrrr !! That's just clear BS with me. I've dealt with his kind all my life. The heavy. Size em up. Drop em.

He's always pissing in the wind with me. Nutz ''the heavy '. Haha.
woodbuck27 the consistent Ted Thompson critic. I'm so bad. :)

mj YOU arn't stupid. If you feel I even implied that that's not good? Your contribution here is evident. You are on the inside though mj in my observation.

Back to the argument:

The fact that TT was in the bidding for Moss demonstrated clearly that he was at least wanting to demonstrate to Packer fans that he could actually see the benefit of such a talent to help Favre and assist our offense.

As you re-call out 'O' was looking a little taddered before this last draft. A lot of us.You included mj we're posting support for Randy moss in Green bay this season.

Now on that mj you can't go half in. You we're either there on not there. You wanted Randy Moss mj.

Now that we are learning would not complywith say Nutz,s prejudices against the lokes of Randy Moss and T. Owens (or arguably the two finest WR's in the NFL).

I'm really simple. I want to win a Super Bowl again with Favre as our QB. The time was now fror that. Clearly that is why I am so annoid at TT.

I can't prove it but it has certainly appeare3d to me that TT isn't all in with Favre. That TT and Favre are on different plots for Packer success. Favre wanted Randy Moss , ' BIG TIME '. The price was right and we had lots of Cap space to try Moss on for a season in what was obviously not a giant leap as we had little that was obvious going for us.

[Zool]

Well, I just have to come out and point this out again. I'm far too lazy to find the article I posted in April, but Moss clearly used the Packers to get to NE. He came out to the media and said "the only team I would have renegotiated my contract for was NE." This Moss issue has been beaten to death. Its really time to let it go.

[RashanGary]

come on with us in the Pro PickEm?

I'd enjoy competing with you.



I'm going to play next year just because I want to compete with you, Woodbuck :P

[esoxx]

TT has earned my respect but he's not God-like as so many here seem to think. He's got a ways to go.

[woodbuck27]

Not to turn this into a Woodbuck love fest, but I really like his confidence to stand up for his opinions. I esspecially liek that he does it without really jabbing hard at people. He has his ways, but until tonight, they are mostly fun and acctually quite observant and clever at times. There were times where he called me out in Woodbuck fashion, calling me sunny or telling me to get off my high horse and I just read it and laughed because he hit the nail right on the head and it was funny because the quality, whatever it was (I forget) was very human and things that are stereotypical are funny to me. They're even funnier when I'm caught doing them because I'm supposed to be aware. I didn't get all pissed, I just laughed because I know he knew and he knew I knew he knew.

Seems like this thread was just people trying to get (what seems obvious) pounded into Woody's head and in the process Woodbuck got offended and then started tossing some of his first pissed off come backs that acctually were a little edged. That's not typical Woodbuck though. I do think that some of the aggressiveness that people use toward Woodbuck is misplaced (meant for other TT haters who were rude ass holes for months and months). Woodbuck is one of the few Anti Ted guys left, but he wasn't one of the belittling, insulting ones and I think sometimes that is forgotten and all of the bad qualities that came from the anti TT crowd get bunched on one of the decent members who's still standing.

Your a rather smart young man JH and sensitive too. That's all very good.

Life is all about growing. Some get it some get worse in false pride.

and . . .Thanks. Your analitical skills are pretty decent as well :)

[woodbuck27]

Well, I just have to come out and point this out again. I'm far too lazy to find the article I posted in April, but Moss clearly used the Packers to get to NE. He came out to the media and said "the only team I would have renegotiated my contract for was NE." This Moss issue has been beaten to death. Its really time to let it go.

This may well be a valid argument.

If a talented WR like Moss had a choice between a future in New England or Green Bay. Logically where would he chose to play?

Now add in the fact that Randy Moss had to prove himself again which of course he has overwhelmingly having one of the best seasons of any WR in NFL history and where does he go to want to be.

In New England with their team and system and what Green Bay has been in the last 4-5 seasons?

FRavre may have had his hopes set too high.He may have been duped by Moss and that is the TRUTH we shoulod try to seek here.

NOT whether or not Moss would have been a sensibloe acquisition. Players such as Moss are rare and if a GM has a shot to get him he must use all his powers to do so. That's as I see it a 'no brainer'.

Now that's just me. :)

[woodbuck27]

Just read this whole thread.

Damn. Tank must have done a good job with his Anti-Polar Bear stuff. Thompson proponents seem to be saying that you are not a Packer fan if you criticize TT.

I think TT has done a nice job, but he isn't by any mean flawless.

No kidding.

there are a few poster's here that are so down the garden lane in their praise and support of Ted Thompson that it's almost a shock and certainly not at all amusing for me to observe. I wanted just so much. for Favre to have a legit shot at another Super Bowl.

All my focus is just there as a Packer fan and proud member of this forum. I'm a die hard Packer fan that will celebrate that fact for 50 years next year. Because I sometimes rip on our packer GM's ways I'm condemned and ridiculed. Even referred to another forum as a Packer fan traitor.

I've observed the way certain people that are prominant here attack the ideas and sound observations of others that feel there strength as the core group here. The effect has been for me to observe TT critics buckle under the heat fr. this self determined power group. I refer to them as the click. If that is misspelled I trust that you know what I mean by that word.

Some of you get away with bad language,ridicule and outright rudeness with your bullying and all that only reflects poorly on you. Y'all know who you are.
Y'all should take a better look inward on yourselves. To disagree is human. To have strong difference of opinion isn't abnormal and hopefully healthy and an assist to grow. TO LEARN MORE WITH AN OPEN MIND.

Bottom line.

This is a forum. Not 'the popular Ladies' tea. :)

PACKERS FOREVER !

[Scott Campbell]

Not to turn this into a Woodbuck love fest, but.......



Too late.

You two should get a room.

:P

[SkinBasket]

Y'all should take a better look inward on yourselves. To disagree is human. To have strong difference of opinion isn't abnormal and hopefully healthy and an assist to grow. TO LEARN MORE WITH AN OPEN MIND.


This would be funny if you understood irony. As it is, it's just kind of depressing.

[Scott Campbell]

Y'all should take a better look inward on yourselves. To disagree is human. To have strong difference of opinion isn't abnormal and hopefully healthy and an assist to grow. TO LEARN MORE WITH AN OPEN MIND.



Brother Woody - preaching to the masses - he who's shit does not stink.


What an egomaniac.

[woodbuck27]

I made my points to you Woody, and I told you and everyone else that I was finished discussing this issue with you because frankly, I can't beat stupid, now discuss whatever else you would like with me and I will be more than pleasant, but I am done discussing this issue with you because the only other way of dealing with the blind is to make fun of them and ridicule them. Now leave it alone before you alienate yourself anymore.

What are you Nutz the leader of some pseudo-fashist movement at Packer Rats? You may order your wife and kids around but not me junior. :) Get a grip Nutz. . sil vour plait. :)

Let's just go here. We don't like one another never have and never will. That may or may not play a part in the extremes differences in our view of TT. You fancy yourself as some heavy here at packerrats and i see you as just a guy.

I'll enlighten you Nutz.Your no better man than I am. I hope your near as good.

To review my position and it's just that Nutz:

For anyone to laud TT with heaps of praise based on our record (13-3) after the off season he had simply baffels me. That's what makes the world spin.The differences in peoples views and it's all just there Nutz. Why take it to such extremes of hatred and piss all over yourself with pettiness? Have you no pride in a healthy sense Nutz?

You don't have to mimmic Scott Campbell. That poor fella is severely challenged.

Nutz:

TT did little to help us in the off season and this time next week we very well may be here realizing just how accurate that stance is. That's my position as I've seen it transpire Nutz. I'm entitled to it as I certainly put my time in here at Packerrats watching TT's thin paint dry.

He had a sleepy off season and did little to support 13-3. The entire NFL community would more than less agree with that statement but not YOU Nutz.

Some other's here are all over TT as GOLDEN as well. OK!

I choose to see it differently. Woe is me? The black sheep - that dasterdly Canadian? NO!! Hardly. I'm just a Packer fan and have been dedicated to that for well 50 years next season. I'm also a man trhat loves to observe or study the NFL. The proof of that is my performance the past twio season,s in the Pro Pickem and how that compares to all NFL experts.

I'm not aware of any NFL expert that has picked more winners in those two seasons as I have. I put my money where my mouth is or I always back myself up.

NO regarding Ted Thompson. I know what I've seen. Are you wrong Nutz? No!

Am I wrong in what I see. Again. NO!! I have my view and I will hold onto it.

That's my right Nutz.

To everyone on this forum that's my Democratic right.

[woodbuck27]

Not to turn this into a Woodbuck love fest, but.......



Too late.

You two should get a room.

:P

Hello squirrel. :)

[Scott Campbell]

For anyone to laud TT with heaps of praise based on our record (13-3) after the off season he had simply baffels me.


False Pride Woody.



TT did little to help us in the off season and this time next week we very well may be here realizing just how accurate that stance is.


Rooting for Holmgren to save your ass? Shame, shame, shame - False Pride Woody.



He had a sleepy off season and did little to support 13-3. The entire NFL community would more than less agree with that statement


False Pride Woody.



I'm also a man trhat loves to observe or study the NFL. The proof of that is my performance the past twio season,s in the Pro Pickem and how that compares to all NFL experts.


False Pride Woody.




I'm not aware of any NFL expert that has picked more winners in those two seasons as I have.



False Pride Woody.




Am I wrong in what I see. Again. NO!! I have my view and I will hold onto it.

That's my right Nutz.



By all means, false pride is your right Woody. Carry on.

[SkinBasket]

He had a sleepy off season and did little to support 13-3. The entire NFL community would more than less agree with that statement

Are you extrapolating the wild support for your position that you enjoy here to the "entire NFL community" now?

[Freak Out]

For anyone to laud TT with heaps of praise based on our record (13-3) after the off season he had simply baffels me.

Huh......? Even the most conservative of packer backers have to give TT praise for building a team that went 13-3. WTF do you want him to do? Cure cancer? World peace?

Now if the team bombs against the Chickens..........

[woodbuck27]

For anyone to laud TT with heaps of praise based on our record (13-3) after the off season he had simply baffels me.


False Pride Woody.



TT did little to help us in the off season and this time next week we very well may be here realizing just how accurate that stance is.


Rooting for Holmgren to save your ass? Shame, shame, shame - False Pride Woody.



He had a sleepy off season and did little to support 13-3. The entire NFL community would more than less agree with that statement


False Pride Woody.



I'm also a man trhat loves to observe or study the NFL. The proof of that is my performance the past twio season,s in the Pro Pickem and how that compares to all NFL experts.


False Pride Woody.




I'm not aware of any NFL expert that has picked more winners in those two seasons as I have.



False Pride Woody.




Am I wrong in what I see. Again. NO!! I have my view and I will hold onto it.

That's my right Nutz.



By all means, false pride is your right Woody. Carry on.

As usual your no Court Room Lawyer in the flaws of your arguments Scott.

Your an obsessive Scott so better to just lie over on this crap because every time you hit . . . . Your exposing yourself man. Making a fool of yourself. Have some dignity Scott.**


** Oppps I forgot your Scott Campbell.

That's just too bad so sad Scott. Try something different for a change with your pathetic life Scott.

Maybe take one of your wives to a movie, or watch another milk a cow. Help that one over there put hay in the stalls and that one has a bowl for you to lick 'Lil Scott.

Pay some attention to those other three. Not so much attention to me and your bullying and ridicule and making a DAM fool of yourself.

[Freak Out]

or watch another milk a cow.

I'm getting turned on just thinking about watching one of his wives milk a cow. What does the modern sister wife wear while milking a cow? It's gotta be nasty.

[cheesner]

TT did little to help us in the off season and this time next week we very well may be here realizing just how accurate that stance is. That's my position as I've seen it transpire Nutz. I'm entitled to it as I certainly put my time in here at Packerrats watching TT's thin paint dry.

He had a sleepy off season and did little to support 13-3. The entire NFL community would more than less agree with that statement but not YOU Nutz.

The problem is that this is a very superficial view. Did TT do much in the off-season? The fact is, he did what he needed to do. TT's objective is to have the Packers win games. I don't think you understand that. That has been accomplished. TT does not owe us fans 'excitement' in the off-season. He needs to make the Packers a better team. Period. The act of signing FAs does not make your team better.

I believe that most in the NFL community feel that TT had a very successful off-season.

[Joemailman]

TT did little to help us in the off season and this time next week we very well may be here realizing just how accurate that stance is. That's my position as I've seen it transpire Nutz. I'm entitled to it as I certainly put my time in here at Packerrats watching TT's thin paint dry.

He had a sleepy off season and did little to support 13-3. The entire NFL community would more than less agree with that statement but not YOU Nutz.

The problem is that this is a very superficial view. Did TT do much in the off-season? The fact is, he did what he needed to do. TT's objective is to have the Packers win games. I don't think you understand that. That has been accomplished. TT does not owe us fans 'excitement' in the off-season. He needs to make the Packers a better team. Period. The act of signing FAs does not make your team better.

I believe that most in the NFL community feel that TT had a very successful off-season.

The problem with Woody's argument is that the entire NFL community was dead wrong about how the Packers would do this year, unless I missed all those people who were picking the Packers to go 13-3. Therefore, by extension, they were dead wrong about what needed to be done to improve the team. TT knew how good his team was, even if almost no one else did.

[cheesner]

TT did little to help us in the off season and this time next week we very well may be here realizing just how accurate that stance is. That's my position as I've seen it transpire Nutz. I'm entitled to it as I certainly put my time in here at Packerrats watching TT's thin paint dry.

He had a sleepy off season and did little to support 13-3. The entire NFL community would more than less agree with that statement but not YOU Nutz.

The problem is that this is a very superficial view. Did TT do much in the off-season? The fact is, he did what he needed to do. TT's objective is to have the Packers win games. I don't think you understand that. That has been accomplished. TT does not owe us fans 'excitement' in the off-season. He needs to make the Packers a better team. Period. The act of signing FAs does not make your team better.

I believe that most in the NFL community feel that TT had a very successful off-season.

The problem with Woody's argument is that the entire NFL community was dead wrong about how the Packers would do this year, unless I missed all those people who were picking the Packers to go 13-3. Therefore, by extension, they were dead wrong about what needed to be done to improve the team. TT knew how good his team was, even if almost no one else did.Well put.

[Bossman641]

"Experts" (I use that term loosely) thought we would suck this year. A

Woody thought we would suck this year. B

We suck. C

A = B
A doesn't equal C
Therefore B doesn't equal C

Woody, just because you agreed with everyone who thought we would suck doesn't make you right. In fact, it makes you even more wrong. They were wrong, you were wrong.

You don't win 13 games by luck, 1 or 2 maybe, but not 13. TT saw the young talent on this team. He had faith they would improve and stuck by his guns and they are proving him right.

[MJZiggy]

The difference there is that all of the so-called experts have either admitted they were wrong, or started pretending they never said we suck in the first place...

[PackerTimer]

TT did little to help us in the off season and this time next week we very well may be here realizing just how accurate that stance is. That's my position as I've seen it transpire Nutz. I'm entitled to it as I certainly put my time in here at Packerrats watching TT's thin paint dry.

He had a sleepy off season and did little to support 13-3. The entire NFL community would more than less agree with that statement but not YOU Nutz.

The problem is that this is a very superficial view. Did TT do much in the off-season? The fact is, he did what he needed to do. TT's objective is to have the Packers win games. I don't think you understand that. That has been accomplished. TT does not owe us fans 'excitement' in the off-season. He needs to make the Packers a better team. Period. The act of signing FAs does not make your team better.

I believe that most in the NFL community feel that TT had a very successful off-season.

The problem with Woody's argument is that the entire NFL community was dead wrong about how the Packers would do this year, unless I missed all those people who were picking the Packers to go 13-3. Therefore, by extension, they were dead wrong about what needed to be done to improve the team. TT knew how good his team was, even if almost no one else did.

There is no way this point can be overstated. I don't see "TT didn't do enough during the offseason" as a logical argument, especially when coupling that argument with "we are 13-3 in spite of TT's inaction." What is so hard for people to understand that he was confident with the guys he had. There were alot of people who undervalued what the Packers had. Thankfully, our general manager was not one of those people.

Yeah, maybe some of that confidence was a mistake. For example, not bringing in a running back because guys like Wynn, Morency, and Jackson didn't really pan out. But, he compensated by finding Ryan Grant. He has done what a good GM does. Evaluates his talent and picks up guys accordingly. When you take a good look at this team there are very little holes to it. Job well done.

[Carolina_Packer]

TT did little to help us in the off season and this time next week we very well may be here realizing just how accurate that stance is. That's my position as I've seen it transpire Nutz. I'm entitled to it as I certainly put my time in here at Packerrats watching TT's thin paint dry.

He had a sleepy off season and did little to support 13-3. The entire NFL community would more than less agree with that statement but not YOU Nutz.

The problem is that this is a very superficial view. Did TT do much in the off-season? The fact is, he did what he needed to do. TT's objective is to have the Packers win games. I don't think you understand that. That has been accomplished. TT does not owe us fans 'excitement' in the off-season. He needs to make the Packers a better team. Period. The act of signing FAs does not make your team better.

I believe that most in the NFL community feel that TT had a very successful off-season.

The problem with Woody's argument is that the entire NFL community was dead wrong about how the Packers would do this year, unless I missed all those people who were picking the Packers to go 13-3. Therefore, by extension, they were dead wrong about what needed to be done to improve the team. TT knew how good his team was, even if almost no one else did.

Succinct and well put, Joe.

I firmly believe there are degrees to which everyone here supports or doesn't support TT. There's likely nobody on the extremes of completely supporting or completely not supporting TT, and there are probably people who enjoy the Packers without thinking much about what TT or his staff do for the team. Those TT neutral folks know they can't control what he and his staff do, so they don't invest emotional energy on it.

So, if TT support, neutrality or non-support is a gradient scale, with 0 being comlete non-support (dislike) and 5 is neutrality and 10 is complete support (like), I'd say I'm about an 8, meaning I like what he's done, but I don't support every decision. I'm also not going to beat him up for one or two personnel moves. I'm a Packer fan, he's our GM, I need to support him. Doesn't mean I always agree with or understand what he does. I sure appreciate the team being 13-3 and looking to be in good shape. If he was any part of that, thanks TT. If not, I guess we won in spite of you. Chances are, TT helped do his part, and most know and acknowledge it. BUT, many fans know it's not just TT; it's the staff, coaches, scouts, players buying into the system, the whole nine yards.

Woody, I hope you are happy with 13-3, and a first round bye. That was brought about by many people's efforts, and I think we'd all agree with that, and since we are all Pack fans we can be excited about it, regardless of what we think of one person. That's my hope anyway.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Sometimes the best moves are not making them.

The chemistry on the team is as fantastic as the players are. TT made this ensamble of both players and coaches. I really don't see how there can be any logical or rational argument against him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

There's likely nobody on the extremes of completely supporting or completely not supporting TT

Have you heard of woodbuck? RG has tempered his disdain. We haven't heard from packnut in a long time.

[MJZiggy]

You forgot about Merlin.

[Carolina_Packer]

You forgot about Merlin.

I think Merlin gives him some credit, and perhaps even Woody. Liking someone should never be a pre-requisite to acknowledging positive developments or progress. To explain away everything a person has tried to do in order to make a positive contribution to the success of a team means that no matter what they do, you are not going to like them or acknowledge contribution to said success.

I'll tell you this, if you have to like everything you support, or support everything you like, I hope you never need a good lawyer, or doctor! Some of them can be strong, not so likeable persons, but you'd want them in your corner.

[Deputy Nutz]

I made my points to you Woody, and I told you and everyone else that I was finished discussing this issue with you because frankly, I can't beat stupid, now discuss whatever else you would like with me and I will be more than pleasant, but I am done discussing this issue with you because the only other way of dealing with the blind is to make fun of them and ridicule them. Now leave it alone before you alienate yourself anymore.

What are you Nutz the leader of some pseudo-fashist movement at Packer Rats? You may order your wife and kids around but not me junior. :) Get a grip Nutz. . sil vour plait. :)

Let's just go here. We don't like one another never have and never will. That may or may not play a part in the extremes differences in our view of TT. You fancy yourself as some heavy here at packerrats and i see you as just a guy.

I'll enlighten you Nutz.Your no better man than I am. I hope your near as good.

To review my position and it's just that Nutz:

For anyone to laud TT with heaps of praise based on our record (13-3) after the off season he had simply baffels me. That's what makes the world spin.The differences in peoples views and it's all just there Nutz. Why take it to such extremes of hatred and piss all over yourself with pettiness? Have you no pride in a healthy sense Nutz?

You don't have to mimmic Scott Campbell. That poor fella is severely challenged.

Nutz:

TT did little to help us in the off season and this time next week we very well may be here realizing just how accurate that stance is. That's my position as I've seen it transpire Nutz. I'm entitled to it as I certainly put my time in here at Packerrats watching TT's thin paint dry.

He had a sleepy off season and did little to support 13-3. The entire NFL community would more than less agree with that statement but not YOU Nutz.

Some other's here are all over TT as GOLDEN as well. OK!

I choose to see it differently. Woe is me? The black sheep - that dasterdly Canadian? NO!! Hardly. I'm just a Packer fan and have been dedicated to that for well 50 years next season. I'm also a man trhat loves to observe or study the NFL. The proof of that is my performance the past twio season,s in the Pro Pickem and how that compares to all NFL experts.

I'm not aware of any NFL expert that has picked more winners in those two seasons as I have. I put my money where my mouth is or I always back myself up.

NO regarding Ted Thompson. I know what I've seen. Are you wrong Nutz? No!

Am I wrong in what I see. Again. NO!! I have my view and I will hold onto it.

That's my right Nutz.

To everyone on this forum that's my Democratic right.

Thanks for proving my point that you can't argue stupid! I guess in Canada you have the right to free health care and stupidity. How do you buy your stupidity Woody? Caseload, or in capsule form?

I love how you try to get aggressive in your posts by calling people that disagree with you "Junior" or "Sonny". Save that shit for the male nurses that vaseline your ass pipe for your old ass case of hemorrhoids,

"Hey Sonny can't you get any deeper than that."

"Hey dere Junior, how about lubing my exit hole for ole' time sakes."

Sad thing is Junior the male nurse at the government funded nursing facility is like everyone else, he doesn't know whether to shove a glob of vaseline in your mouth or up your poop shoot.

[woodbuck27]

Y'all should take a better look inward on yourselves. To disagree is human. To have strong difference of opinion isn't abnormal and hopefully healthy and an assist to grow. TO LEARN MORE WITH AN OPEN MIND.



Brother Woody - preaching to the masses - he who's shit does not stink.


What an egomaniac.

I would love to meet you face to face chump.

[HarveyWallbangers]

You forgot about Merlin.

I think Merlin gives him some credit, and perhaps even Woody.

I'm assuming you don't read their posts.

[woodbuck27]

TT did little to help us in the off season and this time next week we very well may be here realizing just how accurate that stance is. That's my position as I've seen it transpire Nutz. I'm entitled to it as I certainly put my time in here at Packerrats watching TT's thin paint dry.

He had a sleepy off season and did little to support 13-3. The entire NFL community would more than less agree with that statement but not YOU Nutz.

The problem is that this is a very superficial view. Did TT do much in the off-season? The fact is, he did what he needed to do. TT's objective is to have the Packers win games. I don't think you understand that. That has been accomplished. TT does not owe us fans 'excitement' in the off-season. He needs to make the Packers a better team. Period. The act of signing FAs does not make your team better.

I believe that most in the NFL community feel that TT had a very successful off-season.

How could he screw up?

He didn't do very much at all. He certainly needed to go all out and getr moss though and that is something that no TT supporter will ever be able to argue against without the stammer.

TT wanted Randy Moss but as usual he was only part way in the game.

The GM in training shot I make at him, particularly applies in the failure to secure Moss. Anyone that argues that we would be weaker with Randy Moss has far too many issues for me to ever deal with as simply a member of this fantastic Packer fan forum that I'm so proud to be a member of.

The one solid move was to go out and get some kind of RB as it was obvious we were in trouble with B. Jackson and Morency. I am observing people here actually suggesting an extention for Morency and I ask why?

Ohhh I see. I'm gettting it now. Doing as little as possible in Green Bay gets the reward. Jeeeeee it's all so backward compsred to the society I was raised in and understand.

In Green Bay. Less is more and nothing is a lot.

NEAT!? NO!!

Confusing pour moi.

[woodbuck27]

TT did little to help us in the off season and this time next week we very well may be here realizing just how accurate that stance is. That's my position as I've seen it transpire Nutz. I'm entitled to it as I certainly put my time in here at Packerrats watching TT's thin paint dry.

He had a sleepy off season and did little to support 13-3. The entire NFL community would more than less agree with that statement but not YOU Nutz.

The problem is that this is a very superficial view. Did TT do much in the off-season? The fact is, he did what he needed to do. TT's objective is to have the Packers win games. I don't think you understand that. That has been accomplished. TT does not owe us fans 'excitement' in the off-season. He needs to make the Packers a better team. Period. The act of signing FAs does not make your team better.

I believe that most in the NFL community feel that TT had a very successful off-season.

The problem with Woody's argument is that the entire NFL community was dead wrong about how the Packers would do this year, unless I missed all those people who were picking the Packers to go 13-3. Therefore, by extension, they were dead wrong about what needed to be done to improve the team. TT knew how good his team was, even if almost no one else did.

That is a strong post and argument. Congratulations Packer fan.

I can accept that style Joemailman. It's based in intelligence and composed. Not tainted with Gestapo (slash) fashist tactics or smallness based in inmature or low life derision.

Nice Job Man.

Packers Forever.

PACKERS FOREVER!!

[Deputy Nutz]

Y'all should take a better look inward on yourselves. To disagree is human. To have strong difference of opinion isn't abnormal and hopefully healthy and an assist to grow. TO LEARN MORE WITH AN OPEN MIND.



Brother Woody - preaching to the masses - he who's shit does not stink.


What an egomaniac.

I would love to meet you face to face chump.

Be careful Scott, He is bringing his Canadian bitches to that Rumble

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/aquilaonline/blogstuff/avril.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518ARZK7CRL._AA240_.jpg

[SkinBasket]

http://ellistrations.com/musiciansblog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/dork.jpg
"I would love to meet you face to face chump."

[Carolina_Packer]

You forgot about Merlin.

I think Merlin gives him some credit, and perhaps even Woody.

I'm assuming you don't read their posts.

As for Merlin, he does have this in his signature line after changing it from one that was more down on TT. It now reads: "TT gets some credit for the success this season, Jennings, Jones, Woodson, & signing players that perform to extensions. He deserves credit for our inability to run the ball, poor OL, mediocre defense, lack of depth accept at DL, 2 - 1st round draft picks that do not contribute, Manual, & almost no veteran depth."

As for Woody, he does go on repetitively about some of the same arguments, like Moss and free agent inactivity and will defend his arguments to the hilt, mostly against people who get annoyed with him and either tell him to shut up, people who give him a hard time or both. I've never seen Woody make a definitive statement that TT hasn't done anything right. It's implied, and I get that, but he has not totally condemned him. I do wish he would acknowledge that there is more than one way to build a team successfully. Sure, you can sign free agents, but as Joe said, if you are comfortable with what you have and want to see it develop, why sign a free agent just to sign a free agent? The only one that turns out would have made Green Bay a better team is Randy Moss. It's easy to beat someone up after the fact. There was a chance for him to go to NE and be his old self, although I think if he came to GB he might have been a good citizen, especially after he saw the team winning after the first few weeks.

I will say this about Woody. A few months back there was an ugly thread about Koren Robinson where people were questioning other people's ability to forgive and show a Christian attitude and demeanor towards someone else. If you can extend "forgiveness" and a second chance attitude toward Robinson, Woody, why can't you do the same for TT and the mistake he made for not signing Moss? People, even GM's make mistakes. I'm sure he'd like to have Randy now, but he can't. So you have a choice. Either keep beating up this issue and TT for this issue of Moss, or move on and forgive him. I'll leave it to you and your beliefs to decide which choice is the best one.

[Deputy Nutz]

Every week that Randy Moss demonstrates to us his outstanding skills and leadership and his creditable attitude towords winning for the NE Patriots. Places more emphasis on the fact that Ted Thompson blew that one BIG TIME.

This is part of the reasoning most of us see in the risk of Randy Moss, he is doing this all for New England, he has changed his attitude for NEW ENGLAND!!! His attitude in Minneapolis was turning on the Vikings and forced them to trade on of the best all time receivers in the game to the Raiders who in two years saw him totally quit on his team and the franchise to where they had to pawn him off for a second day pick in the 2007 draft. He had proven time and time again that he was a cancer that could kill a team, not build the team off his so claimed leadership, or even the fact that his ability should have just made others better.

The funny thing is Woody, at the time I was pissed that the Packers led by GM Ted Thompson didn't pull the trigger with Randy Moss, and that was only if the Packers were on a level playing field with Moss, I know there were reports claiming that Randy would only restructure his deal with New England and all that.

You claim that there was no risk, and that is where you were wrong. I agree with you that with Randy Moss the reward out paced the risk, but amazingly enough life in Green Bay succeeded without Randy Moss. If Moss was brought in to Green Bay and was the player he is with New England then without a doubt this team would have been better, maybe it wouldn't have shown in the win column but it still would have had a better core of talent.

But honestly to judge Thompson on this one decision is ridiculous, it is like judging Wolf on the selection of Ross Verba, Jon Michaels, Terrell Buckely, Antwaun Edwards, Jamal Reynolds, and Bubba Franks. Some have been average players others have bombed completely, some where busts while in Green Bay that contributed very little but went on to have productive careers. I could have been so angry and disenfranchised with some of those picks that I could have failed to realize that Ron Wolf landed the biggest free agent ever in Reggie White, that he made a great move in signing Santana Dotson, and traded Matt LaBounte for Eugene Robinson. I could have even over looked the fact that he traded a first round pick for some hillbilly from Mississippi in 1992, a Qb that the lowly Falcons couldn't even use.

My simple observation is that all GMs no matter how great or terrible make mistakes at some time, in fact for every hit, there is probably a mistake.

Like him or not, Your the judge of your own opinions gramps

[Zool]

Moss....did....not....want....to....play....in...G reen....Bay

[Deputy Nutz]

Moss....did....not....want....to....play....in...G reen....Bay

I agree with this partly, He didn't really have the choice in who he was going to play for, he did have the choice who he was going to re-negotiate with and that was probably a deciding factor in TT walking away from the table.

I know that Bus Cook represents Rand Moss and we all know that Cook in not only the agent for Favre but his closest friend as well. It was one of the reasons why Favre thought a deal would work out between Green Bay and Randy Moss.

[Zool]

I agree with this partly, He didn't really have the choice in who he was going to play for, he did have the choice who he was going to re-negotiate with and that was probably a deciding factor in TT walking away from the table.

Now if you could just tatoo this on woody's arm so he can look down every time he wants to start the exact same post again, that would be great.

[woodbuck27]

I made my points to you Woody, and I told you and everyone else that I was finished discussing this issue with you because frankly, I can't beat stupid, now discuss whatever else you would like with me and I will be more than pleasant, but I am done discussing this issue with you because the only other way of dealing with the blind is to make fun of them and ridicule them. Now leave it alone before you alienate yourself anymore.

What are you Nutz the leader of some pseudo-fashist movement at Packer Rats? You may order your wife and kids around but not me junior. :) Get a grip Nutz. . sil vour plait. :)

Let's just go here. We don't like one another never have and never will. That may or may not play a part in the extremes differences in our view of TT. You fancy yourself as some heavy here at packerrats and i see you as just a guy.

I'll enlighten you Nutz.Your no better man than I am. I hope your near as good.

To review my position and it's just that Nutz:

For anyone to laud TT with heaps of praise based on our record (13-3) after the off season he had simply baffels me. That's what makes the world spin.The differences in peoples views and it's all just there Nutz. Why take it to such extremes of hatred and piss all over yourself with pettiness? Have you no pride in a healthy sense Nutz?

You don't have to mimmic Scott Campbell. That poor fella is severely challenged.

Nutz:

TT did little to help us in the off season and this time next week we very well may be here realizing just how accurate that stance is. That's my position as I've seen it transpire Nutz. I'm entitled to it as I certainly put my time in here at Packerrats watching TT's thin paint dry.

He had a sleepy off season and did little to support 13-3. The entire NFL community would more than less agree with that statement but not YOU Nutz.

Some other's here are all over TT as GOLDEN as well. OK!

I choose to see it differently. Woe is me? The black sheep - that dasterdly Canadian? NO!! Hardly. I'm just a Packer fan and have been dedicated to that for well 50 years next season. I'm also a man trhat loves to observe or study the NFL. The proof of that is my performance the past twio season,s in the Pro Pickem and how that compares to all NFL experts.

I'm not aware of any NFL expert that has picked more winners in those two seasons as I have. I put my money where my mouth is or I always back myself up.

NO regarding Ted Thompson. I know what I've seen. Are you wrong Nutz? No!

Am I wrong in what I see. Again. NO!! I have my view and I will hold onto it.

That's my right Nutz.

To everyone on this forum that's my Democratic right.

Thanks for proving my point that you can't argue stupid! I guess in Canada you have the right to free health care and stupidity. How do you buy your stupidity Woody? Caseload, or in capsule form?

I love how you try to get aggressive in your posts by calling people that disagree with you "Junior" or "Sonny". Save that shit for the male nurses that vaseline your ass pipe for your old ass case of hemorrhoids,

"Hey Sonny can't you get any deeper than that."

"Hey dere Junior, how about lubing my exit hole for ole' time sakes."

Sad thing is Junior the male nurse at the government funded nursing facility is like everyone else, he doesn't know whether to shove a glob of vaseline in your mouth or up your poop shoot.

Hey NUTZ:

Nice PROMO for your GARBAGE CAN.

That was an excellent thing for people lie you. TRASH talk mandatory? :)

[woodbuck27]

Sorry but I have to do something else but I want to respond to all of this. :)

GO PACK GO !

[SkinBasket]

That was an excellent thing for people lie you. TRASH talk mandatory? :)

OOOOhhhhhhhh!!! Them is fightin' words! Or maybe not.... It's hard to tell when no one knows what the fuck you're trying to say.

[woodbuck27]

That was an excellent thing for people lie you. TRASH talk mandatory? :)

OOOOhhhhhhhh!!! Them is fightin' words! Or maybe not.... It's hard to tell when no one knows what the fuck you're trying to say.

You know exactly what I'm saying and where I'm standing wise guy (NOT).

Why are you so angry?

PACKERS FOREVER.

[woodbuck27]

Y'all should take a better look inward on yourselves. To disagree is human. To have strong difference of opinion isn't abnormal and hopefully healthy and an assist to grow. TO LEARN MORE WITH AN OPEN MIND.



Brother Woody - preaching to the masses - he who's shit does not stink.


What an egomaniac.

I would love to meet you face to face chump.

Be careful Scott, He is bringing his Canadian bitches to that Rumble

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/aquilaonline/blogstuff/avril.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518ARZK7CRL._AA240_.jpg

No man! Why are you so classless?

I was just thinking I'd enjoy meeting Scott to observe the marriage between the what appears in this thread to be ' the Village Idiot and a Jackass '. :)

Now of course I could be way out in left field here? Maybe not!

[Scott Campbell]

I would love to meet you face to face chump.



That's because you're a masochist.

[SkinBasket]

Why are you so angry?


Oh Woody, for all your talk of mirrors and looking within one's self, I would think you would ask yourself this question first. Of course after your mandatory day of cooling off, you always come back and claim ignorance. Then again, you don't really have to claim it. You already own it. Now work it girl.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Why is the Moss deal so damn important? Seriously.

Our WR's lead the league in YAC. We have the best 5 WR set in the NFL.

If your criteria is that this one deal is the make or break on how TT is, then you really are being willfully ignorant. Take off the blinders and see the whole picture.

The national media is all over on how good of a GM is. He's likely going to be in the top 3 for GM of the year.

[Deputy Nutz]

I would love to meet you face to face chump.



That's because you're a masochist.

Touch me hard.

[woodbuck27]

Why are you so angry?


Oh Woody, for all your talk of mirrors and looking within one's self, I would think you would ask yourself this question first. Of course after your mandatory day of cooling off, you always come back and claim ignorance. Then again, you don't really have to claim it. You already own it. Now work it girl.

Ever hear of ' Anger management ' Skin.

I understand it's a neat program that can open people up to living life with true optimism and joy of spirit and love for other's. Rather than pissing all over other's because there wasn't more ice cream in one's early life.

It's OK to be nice Skin. I know that has to be difficult for you to imagine but also this post may cause you to think.

No !! Not you.

[woodbuck27]

I would love to meet you face to face chump.



That's because you're a masochist.

Touch me hard.

What's this:

You fellas doing your best impression of Dumb and Dumber? Are you wearing flack jackets with swastikas adorning them and not coming close to buttoning and covering up your big wanna be bad ass beer bellies?

In any case great job fellas. Your hatred really shines in this thread.

Nice job Scott and Nutz. Your a couple of peach's - real beauties or throwbacks to the minor and senseless B-movies that anyone with half a brain wants to avoid. :)

[Deputy Nutz]

I would love to meet you face to face chump.



That's because you're a masochist.

Touch me hard.

What's this:

You fellas doing your best impression of Dumb and Dumber? Are you wearing flack jackets with swastikas adorning them and not coming close to to buttoning and covering up your big wanna be bad ass beer bellies?

In any case great job fellas. Your hatred really shines in this thread.

Nice job Scott and Nutz. Your a couple of peach's - real beauties or throwbacks to the minor and senseless B-movies that anyone with half a brain wants to avoid. :)

I like Peaches, and I am fine. You assume such things about me.

[Deputy Nutz]

Woodbuck I know you are upset about the Packers advancing to the NFC Championship game, but please don't take your anger out on me.

[Deputy Nutz]

I never knew a beer belly was something that would be refered to as "Bad Ass". It must be Canadian.

[Deputy Nutz]

I don't hate anyone here, accept for Partial.

[Deputy Nutz]

Back to the beer belly, I hope I only have a "wanna be" beer belly, I didn't think they are something to be flattered over. Woodbuck, do you like your men to have beer bellies?

[woodbuck27]

Back to the beer belly, I hope I only have a "wanna be" beer belly, I didn't think they are something to be flattered over. Woodbuck, do you like your men to have beer bellies?

See there you go with the Ole sex on the brain Nutz. Not geting near enough Eh? Ahhh like most men I expect, but not to worry Nutz.

All that frustration for such a young man. You really need to work that out sonny. Get some healthy exercise Take precautions Nutz or you just might explode all over the barnyard. :)

PACKERS FOREVER!

[SkinBasket]

Ever hear of ' Anger management ' Skin.

I understand it's a neat program that can open people up to living life with true optimism and joy of spirit and love for other's. Rather than pissing all over other's because there wasn't more ice cream in one's early life.

It's OK to be nice Skin. I know that has to be difficult for you to imagine but also this post may cause you to think.


Strange that someone tossing nazi insults around is giving me lessons on being nice, you sick little turd. If you haven't noticed, you're the only angry one here grandma. The rest of are having plenty of fun.

[Partial]

I don't hate anyone here, accept for Partial.

Figures.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You know, its almost like I wish the Pack had got Moss and he performed like he usually does, just to shut up Woody.

Woody, can you prove that we would be better off with Moss than we are right now? If not, then STFU!

[PackerTimer]

You know, its almost like I wish the Pack had got Moss and he performed like he usually does, just to shut up Woody.

Woody, can you prove that we would be better off with Moss than we are right now? If not, then STFU!

Also, I want to know how you know that TT wanted Moss but was only half in the game. Sure, TT probably would have like to land Randy Moss, but why is it that you believe he doesn't have the stones to pull off the big deal. With the devolpment of our receiver I firmly believe that TT just decided to pass on Moss and go with what he had 100% confident that Jennings, Jones, Driver, Martin, and Robinson were gonna do just fine. Guess what he was right. TT isn't a fan of free agency and trading. He believes in building his teams from the draft. Maybe you prefer the other way, there's really nothing wrong with that. But there's nothing wrong with doing things his way either. It has gotten past annoying that some people refuse to accept a way different that what they might do. Intolerance is an ugly thing.










By the way I was only kidding about the intolerance part. I just wanted to fit in by making an extremely outragous statement.

[Deputy Nutz]

Back to the beer belly, I hope I only have a "wanna be" beer belly, I didn't think they are something to be flattered over. Woodbuck, do you like your men to have beer bellies?

See there you go with the Ole sex on the brain Nutz. Not geting near enough Eh? Ahhh like most men I expect, but not to worry Nutz.

All that frustration for such a young man. You really need to work that out sonny. Get some healthy exercise Take precautions Nutz or you just might explode all over the barnyard. :)

PACKERS FOREVER!


I guess you do find beer bellies sexy. Whatever floats your boat.

[cheesner]

TT did little to help us in the off season and this time next week we very well may be here realizing just how accurate that stance is. That's my position as I've seen it transpire Nutz. I'm entitled to it as I certainly put my time in here at Packerrats watching TT's thin paint dry.

He had a sleepy off season and did little to support 13-3. The entire NFL community would more than less agree with that statement but not YOU Nutz.

The problem is that this is a very superficial view. Did TT do much in the off-season? The fact is, he did what he needed to do. TT's objective is to have the Packers win games. I don't think you understand that. That has been accomplished. TT does not owe us fans 'excitement' in the off-season. He needs to make the Packers a better team. Period. The act of signing FAs does not make your team better.

I believe that most in the NFL community feel that TT had a very successful off-season.

How could he screw up?

He didn't do very much at all. He certainly needed to go all out and getr moss though and that is something that no TT supporter will ever be able to argue against without the stammer.

TT wanted Randy Moss but as usual he was only part way in the game.

The GM in training shot I make at him, particularly applies in the failure to secure Moss. Anyone that argues that we would be weaker with Randy Moss has far too many issues for me to ever deal with as simply a member of this fantastic Packer fan forum that I'm so proud to be a member of.

The one solid move was to go out and get some kind of RB as it was obvious we were in trouble with B. Jackson and Morency. I am observing people here actually suggesting an extention for Morency and I ask why?

Ohhh I see. I'm gettting it now. Doing as little as possible in Green Bay gets the reward. Jeeeeee it's all so backward compsred to the society I was raised in and understand.

In Green Bay. Less is more and nothing is a lot.

NEAT!? NO!!

Confusing pour moi.So Woody, you feel that TT is a failure, no matter what the results, because he didn't exercise every option at his disposal (that is sign FAs).

Lets apply that logic to Favre: Favre sucks because he doesn't scramble often. That is an option that he doesn't use. Doesn't matter that he is successful despite that he doesn't scramble. Doesn't matter that he has a great arm, makes great decisions, is a great leader, wins games, etc. The fact that he rarely scrambles for first downs makes him a failure.

[PackerTimer]

TT did little to help us in the off season and this time next week we very well may be here realizing just how accurate that stance is. That's my position as I've seen it transpire Nutz. I'm entitled to it as I certainly put my time in here at Packerrats watching TT's thin paint dry.

He had a sleepy off season and did little to support 13-3. The entire NFL community would more than less agree with that statement but not YOU Nutz.

The problem is that this is a very superficial view. Did TT do much in the off-season? The fact is, he did what he needed to do. TT's objective is to have the Packers win games. I don't think you understand that. That has been accomplished. TT does not owe us fans 'excitement' in the off-season. He needs to make the Packers a better team. Period. The act of signing FAs does not make your team better.

I believe that most in the NFL community feel that TT had a very successful off-season.

How could he screw up?

He didn't do very much at all. He certainly needed to go all out and getr moss though and that is something that no TT supporter will ever be able to argue against without the stammer.

TT wanted Randy Moss but as usual he was only part way in the game.

The GM in training shot I make at him, particularly applies in the failure to secure Moss. Anyone that argues that we would be weaker with Randy Moss has far too many issues for me to ever deal with as simply a member of this fantastic Packer fan forum that I'm so proud to be a member of.

The one solid move was to go out and get some kind of RB as it was obvious we were in trouble with B. Jackson and Morency. I am observing people here actually suggesting an extention for Morency and I ask why?

Ohhh I see. I'm gettting it now. Doing as little as possible in Green Bay gets the reward. Jeeeeee it's all so backward compsred to the society I was raised in and understand.

In Green Bay. Less is more and nothing is a lot.

NEAT!? NO!!

Confusing pour moi.So Woody, you feel that TT is a failure, no matter what the results, because he didn't exercise every option at his disposal (that is sign FAs).

Lets apply that logic to Favre: Favre sucks because he doesn't scramble often. That is an option that he doesn't use. Doesn't matter that he is successful despite that he doesn't scramble. Doesn't matter that he has a great arm, makes great decisions, is a great leader, wins games, etc. The fact that he rarely scrambles for first downs makes him a failure.

:worship:

[SkinBasket]

So Woody, you feel that TT is a failure, no matter what the results, because he didn't exercise every option at his disposal (that is sign FAs).

Lets apply that logic to Favre: Favre sucks because he doesn't scramble often. That is an option that he doesn't use. Doesn't matter that he is successful despite that he doesn't scramble. Doesn't matter that he has a great arm, makes great decisions, is a great leader, wins games, etc. The fact that he rarely scrambles for first downs makes him a failure.

Using logic with woody is like putting your cock in a meat grinder. The results are painful and messy, and you'll just wish you never tried it.

[Deputy Nutz]

Thin paint doesn't dry very slowly. I think that might be woody's point. What it means, I don't know.

[Bossman641]

Here's your shovel Woody.

http://www.lesliehawes.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/shovel.jpg

[green_bowl_packer]

The national media is all over on how good of a GM is. He's likely going to be in the top 3 for GM of the year.

Like the Wall Street Journal
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120009104651484765.html

Green Bay's Quiet Football Mastermind
Ted Thompson's reclusiveness and unorthodox player moves once prompted Packers fans to call for his head. Now it seems he was ahead of his time.
By RUSSELL ADAMS
January 12, 2008; Page W1

In a year when New England Patriots executives are being hailed as football geniuses for engineering an undefeated season, Ted Thompson, the reclusive general manager of the Green Bay Packers, has achieved something equally remarkable.
WSJ.COM PODCAST

[Go to podcast]1
• He is probably the genius of the NFL but most people have never heard of him. The Journal's Russell Adams talks about Green Bay General Manager Ted Thompson2 and why his contribution to the NFL is so great.

Before this season, fans were calling for Mr. Thompson's head. While the Packers had won just 12 of their last 32 games, he did not seem to care. No matter how loudly the fans complained, Mr. Thompson, who avoids publicity and rarely explains himself, continued sending away popular veterans and replacing them with untested college players, some of whom weren't highly regarded by other NFL teams.

This year, led by a core of players that helped make Mr. Thompson a pariah, the Packers won 13 games and made the playoffs. What's more, the players he's brought into the league during his career are having an exceptional year -- as the playoffs resume Saturday, nearly 10% of the active players on the remaining eight teams were signed out of college by Mr. Thompson.

"If he's not the executive of the year, there needs to be an investigation," said former Packers GM Ron Wolf, who first hired him in 1992.
[NFL]
Packers General Manager Ted Thompson

His emergence points to a new formula for success in the NFL. Like Bill Belichick, New England's famously taciturn coach, Mr. Thompson doesn't seek the cameras. The ex-player and former financial planner has never married, has no children and lives in tiny Green Bay, which is the smallest market in the NFL. When he's not on the road scouting college players four or five days a week, he spends as much time as he can in darkened rooms studying film. Other than reading thrillers and playing some golf, football is his life. "He probably needs more hobbies," says Mike Reinfeldt, the GM of the Tennessee Titans.

Packers fans haven't taken to Mr. Thompson's style. Unlike his predecessors, who regularly discussed their decisions in public forums, Mr. Thompson generally declines to share his reasons for personnel moves. His reluctance to spend on free agents and his proclivity for supplanting popular (though expensive) veterans with recent college graduates have spawned several Web sites dedicated to getting him fired (one has 519 signatures). When Mr. Thompson failed to sign veteran All-Pro receiver Randy Moss last year, Brett Favre, Green Bay's longtime quarterback, stopped talking to him.

While pro football is the nation's most popular sport, the brutal economic structure of the league -- where all 32 teams are effectively given the same resources -- has made winning and losing largely a function of management. Winning not only requires ruthless cost control, but it also seems to reward people who are able to make decisions in a hermetically sealed chamber without worrying about what the fans, the media or their own players will think. "I try to keep my eye on the ball, so to speak," Mr. Thompson says.
[NFL]
Justin Harrell: Green Bay fans booed the GM when he picked this promising defensive lineman in the 2007 draft.

This reclusiveness is a departure for the NFL, which has long been dominated by outsize personalities like New York's Wellington Mara, Pittsburgh's Art Rooney and Oakland's Al Davis. In 1993, NFL owners granted players the right to become free agents in exchange for a cap on the total amount teams can spend on player salaries. The players' right to auction their services, coupled with the salary cap, made it difficult for teams to retain star players as long as they used to -- which in turn, created a much tougher job for executives. With no way to spend themselves to the top, NFL teams commonly turn over a third of their rosters each year and struggle to stay competitive for more than a few years at a time. The only way to keep winning is to replenish the roster with rookies who perform well immediately -- which is what Mr. Thompson has done.

The 54-year-old son of a Texas rancher, Mr. Thompson is tall and trim with a thatch of white hair. He played linebacker for the Houston Oilers from 1975 to 1984, where he often spent nights during training camp evaluating other players to determine his chances of making the team. "At the end of the day we'd cut the team down to see if there were scenarios where we could both make it," says Mr. Reinfeldt, who was Mr. Thompson's Houston teammate.

From 1985 to 1991, Mr. Thompson worked as an investment adviser in Houston before taking a job with the Packers as a scout in 1992. He later became the head of all talent evaluation, where he was part of a team that showed a knack for spotting players who hadn't yet gotten the most out of their physical talent. With its 12th and final selection in the 1999 draft, the Packers took an unknown wide receiver from Alcorn State named Donald Driver, who is now a three-time Pro Bowl player. In 2000, the Seattle Seahawks hired Mr. Thompson to run their football operations, and he began assembling the core of the team that advanced to Super Bowl XL two years ago. (Six of the eight playoff teams have key players that Mr. Thompson brought into the league.)
[NFL]
Jason Spitz: Drafted in the third round in 2006. Started 13 games last year as a rookie and played in 14 this year.

When he returned to Green Bay as its GM, the Packers had wrapped up a 10-win season in 2004, had made the playoffs and, to many observers, were well positioned for 2005. Mr. Thompson, however, saw a dead end. To keep that team intact, he thought he would have to saddle the franchise with big contracts that would kill its chances later. So he started letting popular players like linemen Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera leave as free agents while stockpiling draft picks to use to replace them.

By this past off-season, the fans were steaming. When Mr. Thompson let star running back Ahman Green sign with Houston as a free agent without acquiring a big-name replacement, the situation got worse. On draft day, when Mr. Thompson used his first pick to select a defensive tackle rather than a running back, many fans considered it the last straw. One post on a Packers' blog read: "Fire Ted Thompson."

That tackle, Tennessee's Justin Harrell, was sidelined by an injury for most of his senior year at Tennessee. Not expecting to hear his name called so early on draft day, Mr. Harrell says he was outside his home in Martin, Tenn., talking to friends when the pick was announced. Later, in Green Bay, Mr. Thompson headed downstairs to the atrium at Lambeau Field to talk to fans who'd paid $25 to watch the draft. "I got booed," he says.
[NFL]
James Jones: Scouts weren't high on the receiver, picked in the third round in 2007, but he's been one of the team's best offensive players.

Mr. Harrell, 6-foot-4 and 310 pounds, fit one of Mr. Thompson's first principles: that teams should be built around huge, athletic linemen who can clog up the middle of the field, particularly when the weather gets cold and teams rely more on running the ball. The Packers spent 49% more this season on defensive linemen than the average of the eight teams in the playoffs.

The move didn't pan out right away. Mr. Harrell showed up at training camp 15 pounds above his college playing weight and was inactive his first four games. He played in the next two, got hurt and didn't come back until November. But in the team's final four games, he helped make 13 tackles while filling in for injured players. Mr. Thompson said he would see a lot of playing time in Saturday night's game.

No playoff team spent less on running backs and wide receivers than Green Bay. Packers fans watched in disbelief last April as the Patriots acquired Mr. Moss, the star receiver, for a fourth-round draft pick. They then watched the Packers acquire a receiver from San Jose State that a top scouting service said was only the 24th-best available. That player, James Jones, wound up third in the NFL among rookies in receiving yards.

"There's a tendency to say, 'Yeah, I knew that all along,' " Mr. Thompson says. "Oftentimes, it's a pleasant surprise."

[Partial]

I actually thought Harrell played a pretty good game the other day. He deserves some credit for holding the point of attack, exactly what he was asked to do.

[Lurker64]

I actually thought Harrell played a pretty good game the other day. He deserves some credit for holding the point of attack, exactly what he was asked to do.

Harrell has been excellent at holding the point so far, at least since coming back from his midseason injury. He definitely has the physical skills to be a player in this league, and he even has flashed a couple of times as a pass rusher. He does need to spend a lot of time on technique and more time in the weight room this offseason. But he's definitely not a Jamal Reynolds type. He may never be a star, but he could be as good as Ryan Pickett (also a first round pick.)

[PackerTimer]

I actually thought Harrell played a pretty good game the other day. He deserves some credit for holding the point of attack, exactly what he was asked to do.

Agreed. I'll actually take it a step futher. I thought he played excellent football.

[cheesner]

I actually thought Harrell played a pretty good game the other day. He deserves some credit for holding the point of attack, exactly what he was asked to do.

Harrell has been excellent at holding the point so far, at least since coming back from his midseason injury. He definitely has the physical skills to be a player in this league, and he even has flashed a couple of times as a pass rusher. He does need to spend a lot of time on technique and more time in the weight room this offseason. But he's definitely not a Jamal Reynolds type. He may never be a star, but he could be as good as Ryan Pickett (also a first round pick.)
Why don't you feel he will be a star? Has a DT ever come into the league and immediately dominated as a rookie? I would say we have an idea now of what Harrell's ceiling is, and it is above merely 'star' status. He is very big, powerful, extremely athletic, works hard, and studies hard. He has the capacity to truly dominate a game - and I like his chances of achieving that.

[Lurker64]

Why don't you feel he will be a star? Has a DT ever come into the league and immediately dominated as a rookie? I would say we have an idea now of what Harrell's ceiling is, and it is above merely 'star' status. He is very big, powerful, extremely athletic, works hard, and studies hard. He has the capacity to truly dominate a game - and I like his chances of achieving that.

I say that mostly because a DT really needs to be exceptional to be a star. Most are simply good players, and even the very, very good ones are fairly obscure. You need to be game-changingly dominant in order to star at DT, a la Haynesworth sometimes this season. Playing in the trenches tends to lead to obscurity, after all.

Harrell may end up being the kind of game-changing dominator that changes a defense, or he may simply be very, very good but not get a lot of attention (particularly because he plays in Green Bay.) He may be neither of those things, I can't see the future.

[MJZiggy]

After we win a few Super Bowls, our players will get more attention and even the lowly linemen will be known throughout the league... 8-)

[Partial]

Why don't you feel he will be a star? Has a DT ever come into the league and immediately dominated as a rookie? I would say we have an idea now of what Harrell's ceiling is, and it is above merely 'star' status. He is very big, powerful, extremely athletic, works hard, and studies hard. He has the capacity to truly dominate a game - and I like his chances of achieving that.

I say that mostly because a DT really needs to be exceptional to be a star. Most are simply good players, and even the very, very good ones are fairly obscure. You need to be game-changingly dominant in order to star at DT, a la Haynesworth sometimes this season. Playing in the trenches tends to lead to obscurity, after all.

Harrell may end up being the kind of game-changing dominator that changes a defense, or he may simply be very, very good but not get a lot of attention (particularly because he plays in Green Bay.) He may be neither of those things, I can't see the future.

I'm not sure that I agree with that. A LOT of DTs are considered impact players: Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, Shaun Rodgers, Ryan Pickett, and Tommy Harris is our division alone. All 5 of those guys are excellent players are pro-bowl level players (not Rodgers this year, though).

[woodbuck27]

Scott Campbell,Deputy Nutz and Skinbasket and Tarlam! not so involved this time in this affair:

I just got in and won't even read the latest on this thread today.

I want to propose 'a white flag' or truce on our differences of opinion personality clash's and otherwise till the end og OUR TEAM's season. I realize it may surface again in the off season.

We're all Packer fasns here and I want all good kharma till its over this year.

I trust you'll accept this offer.

Later

[The Leaper]

11 pages...and the white hankey has finally been tossed.

[Lurker64]

I'm not sure that I agree with that. A LOT of DTs are considered impact players: Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, Shaun Rodgers, Ryan Pickett, and Tommy Harris is our division alone. All 5 of those guys are excellent players are pro-bowl level players (not Rodgers this year, though).

I'm not sure any of those guys are stars. They're impact players, certainly, and darn good players. But I wouldn't call them stars. How many Oakland Raiders fans will be able to say "Hey, that Ryan Pickett who plays for the Green Bay Packers, he's really good"? If you're really a star, casual fans from all sorts of teams know who you are and know you're really good.

Everybody knows that Peyton Manning is great, but not a lot of people know that Ryan Pickett is great; that's why the Indy QB is a star and our DT is not. Probably the only DT in the entire league that i'd say is really a star is Haynesworth, and that's because he's a terror but mostly because everybody knows this.

[woodbuck27]

Woodbuck I know you are upset about the Packers advancing to the NFC Championship game, but please don't take your anger out on me.

If your serious here then I suggest that you re-examine it Deputy Nutz.

You and Scott Campbell's stand on this possible direction I might take isn't very likely. Your game is to get rid of me here at Packerrats.To drive me away or otherwise eliminate woodbuck27.

You do so with such a ludicrous suggestion to take any credibility from me.

That's a pure example of the degree of hatred you have conjured up inside of yourselves against me. That's. . . if the case, so very sad.I'm not deserving of this and what really causes me to scratch my head is why are you going there? The suggestion I could hope for Packer loss's is simply stupid thinking on your part.

Not to say any of you are that or stupid but your hatred of me is clouding your minds.

I will never see eye to eye with you fellas.We are cut from different stock and have different values. We don't understand the word respect the same way. We are different in terms of tolerance for other's ways,ideas and opinions. That is alright as the number one problem in our world today is ignorance.

I don't judge any of you on this matter. I hope that y'all will grow - or learn to be stronger. I'm not against any of you but at the same time not for you. I understand the issue or problem better than any of you.

It's yours not mine. I'd help all of you in any way I may. I really think though that's a journey onto yourselves.

Good luck fellas.

In the meantime. I desire a truce. For the good of our Packer home (PackerRats) it's time for just that. Havn,t we side swiped one another enough.

Time to smarten up all around and give 100% support for our team.

I'm certainly pul;ling for the GREEN BAY PACKERS and no other team.

Please don't act the fool Nutz.Your not a bad fella deep down.You just6 need to act tough for some reason. I actually have demonstrated a lot of respect for your football knowledge. Your a decent analyst man.

Maybe your ready for the Pickem next season? Give that a try if you want to test yourself. It,s what seperates the men fr. the boys but the element of LUCK does play a part for or against some.That balances out though in my opinion.

Next season I intend to regain my Championship. I've learned fr. certain mistakes more this season. Come aboard and ensure I don't do so well as I have the past two seasons.

Why would I hope against the Packers? :) That's almost funny if it wasn't so ridiculous a suggestion. That,s why my analysis says you are out to get me here. Forget that fellas.I'm at home here at Packerrats and this forum will have to go down before I retire fr. it.

Have y'all got that?

I'm before any ego issue a Packer fan :) and been one for far too long to not hope for some respect. i won't gwet that fr. any of you three or four as your blinded in yourselves.We have a classic personality clash issue. Too bad? NO!!! That's LIFE.

For either of you (Scott Campbell and Deputy Nutz) or anyone else here to suggest I would hope for the Packers to fail is simply stupid. Sorry for my bluntness.

I couldn't possibly hope against the team I love with a real passion. When you celebrate being a Packer fan for 50 years mabe you'll have grown to realize the ridiculousness of that accusation againstt my character and personality.

For now. Smarten the HELL up!! :) Your looking really bad fellas.

[woodbuck27]

You know, its almost like I wish the Pack had got Moss and he performed like he usually does, just to shut up Woody.

Woody, can you prove that we would be better off with Moss than we are right now? If not, then STFU!

Also, I want to know how you know that TT wanted Moss but was only half in the game. Sure, TT probably would have like to land Randy Moss, but why is it that you believe he doesn't have the stones to pull off the big deal. With the devolpment of our receiver I firmly believe that TT just decided to pass on Moss and go with what he had 100% confident that Jennings, Jones, Driver, Martin, and Robinson were gonna do just fine. Guess what he was right. TT isn't a fan of free agency and trading. He believes in building his teams from the draft. Maybe you prefer the other way, there's really nothing wrong with that. But there's nothing wrong with doing things his way either. It has gotten past annoying that some people refuse to accept a way different that what they might do. Intolerance is an ugly thing.










By the way I was only kidding about the intolerance part. I just wanted to fit in by making an extremely outragous statement.

It was very clearly laid out for us that TT went to bed Saturday night or early Sunday AM and thought he had made thne deal with Oakland to secure Randy Moss.

What he thought and what was are the issue I havwe with him on the Randy Moss question.

I'mm entirely focused on that bidding war with whomever and how TT conducted himself in that.

I won,t go to how well Randy moss has done or woukld that performance have translated as well or close to that in Green Bay.

My issue with TT is confined to him not following up properly on his last offer of a late 4th round pick and thinking that was good enough.

READ -READ -READ this please and then try to understand my criticismv without bringing down all the ignorance and crap.

K?

[woodbuck27]

Here's your shovel Woody.

http://www.lesliehawes.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/shovel.jpg

See there we go.

More gang on the lone man bullying mentality. Congratulations.You may go straight back to the Dark Ages. Get a grip please.

I stand alone and I'll defend it all alone and do so very well Packer fans. A lot of you are out to lunch now. Use your brains please. :)

Jumping on the bandwagon with somwe pseudo hormonal rush?

Pathetic example of just how wrong this society has become. Make fools of yourselves. Bring it on.

[woodbuck27]

I actually thought Harrell played a pretty good game the other day. He deserves some credit for holding the point of attack, exactly what he was asked to do.

I agree Partial that he showed me as a Packer fan :) some potential.

[woodbuck27]

Now !

How about that truce? We have a huge game coming up. The Giants to defeat. :)

We're starting to act like the Catholics and the Protestants of Belfast Ireland. Not Packer fans all of us.

PACKERS FOREVER! :)

[Deputy Nutz]

Now !

How about that truce? We have a huge game coming up. The Giants to defeat. :)

We're starting to act like the Catholics and the Protestants of Belfast Ireland. Not Packer fans all of us.

PACKERS FOREVER! :)

I will give you your truce, and the fact is I really do not want to waste any more of my time on this subject, I will not argue on this topic until the post season of 2008 begins, as for the verbal warfare, I will back off, although you did refer to me as a nazi.

[RashanGary]

Woodbuck, the Packers had a higher #4 than New England. NE ended up getting him for less than the Packers offered. Why? Because Randy Moss had an exporbanant contract that nobody in the NFL was willing to eat. Any team trading any thing for Randy was doing it knowing Randy was going to renegotiate. With this in mind, Randy had power.

With his bargaining power he chose NE. The Packers probably could have swooped in with more money (If Randy ever gave them the chance to counter offer). That may have been a mistake but then again do you really want someone that wants to be somewhere else? It was a tough move, but I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it.

I was upset that he didn't get Moss and I'd call us the SB favorite if we had him. Hindsight, TT may have made a mistake (depending on how everything unfolded). It was a tough choice that most GM's accross the league thought was an easy one. They didn't even get in the discussion. Ted and one other GM did. Ultimately he made the wrong choice (or was victim of Randy's change of heart) and it hurts (more because NE is damn near unstoppable now) but at the end of the day, you can't really be too hard on the guy for the one move tha tdidn't pan out (esspecially when he was only one of two GM's on the right tack). Most everything else has worked out over the long run. What mroe can you ask for?

[RashanGary]

If the Packers beat the Patriots, it will be against all odds. Against a great QB in his prime and the most dynamic WR ever to play the game, who is also playing at the best level of his career.

I don't think anything is settled. The Packers could win the SB this year and even then the Moss thing will have been a mistake (assuming TT has as much control as some people here assume) but you have to see the good too. There has been a lot more good than bad.

[4and12to12and4]

I actually thought Harrell played a pretty good game the other day. He deserves some credit for holding the point of attack, exactly what he was asked to do.

Harrell has been excellent at holding the point so far, at least since coming back from his midseason injury. He definitely has the physical skills to be a player in this league, and he even has flashed a couple of times as a pass rusher. He does need to spend a lot of time on technique and more time in the weight room this offseason. But he's definitely not a Jamal Reynolds type. He may never be a star, but he could be as good as Ryan Pickett (also a first round pick.)

I think he can be better than Pickett because he has a more balanced body. He is big, but doesn't carry a gigantic gut around, and that means he can move faster and last longer. He still has a very high ceiling, remember how average Mario looked last year, now look at him, he ended up with a shitload of sacks only in his second year. Year three and four is when you can really evaluate what you've got, defensive guys like that are at their best when they are at full confidence and don't have to think, they can just react.

[SkinBasket]

Now !

How about that truce? We have a huge game coming up. The Giants to defeat. :)

We're starting to act like the Catholics and the Protestants of Belfast Ireland. Not Packer fans all of us.

PACKERS FOREVER! :)

You Canadians and your white flags....

I only respond to you when I see something stupid. Be smarter.

WHAT?!!?!

No really. I think we can solve this if we move the conjecture into the lobby and meet the people from the other side of town.

DRINK IT DOWN!!

I don't hate the woodbuck. The woodbuck loves the woodchuck who completed the cunning stunt.

Let's adjourn this meeting until February.

No more nasties Woody cheese, and the mousies wont nibble your knees.

Group hug. Leg hump. Milk shake.

[Scott Campbell]

I stand alone and I'll defend it all alone and do so very well Packer fans.


Some people stand alone righteously to defend something honorable. Other people stand alone simply because they are assholes. You're just an asshole Woody. You don't need a truce. You need to quit being an asshole.

[Deputy Nutz]

I stand alone and I'll defend it all alone and do so very well Packer fans.


Some people stand alone righteously to defend something honorable. Other people stand alone simply because they are assholes. You're just an asshole Woody. You don't need a truce. You need to quit being an asshole.


Scott I accepted the truce and I sort of see myself as a bad ass rightous leader and alpa dog of this forum, after all I am a heavy hitter around here so I took the truce for all of us against Woody. The last thing I want is for Woody to leave.

[MJZiggy]

Hmmm....I wonder if Nutz realizes that the alpha male in any dog pack is usually ruled over by the alpha female...

[Deputy Nutz]

Hmmm....I wonder if Nutz realizes that the alpha male in any dog pack is usually ruled over by the alpha female...

I do realize that.

[Harlan Huckleby]

tape that alpha female to a chair and stick a tennis ball in her mouth. Respect has to be earned - get busy.

[woodbuck27]

Now !

How about that truce? We have a huge game coming up. The Giants to defeat. :)

We're starting to act like the Catholics and the Protestants of Belfast Ireland. Not Packer fans all of us.

PACKERS FOREVER! :)

You Canadians and your white flags....

I only respond to you when I see something stupid. Be smarter.

WHAT?!!?!

No really. I think we can solve this if we move the conjecture into the lobby and meet the people from the other side of town.

DRINK IT DOWN!!

I don't hate the woodbuck. The woodbuck loves the woodchuck who completed the cunning stunt.

Let's adjourn this meeting until February.

No more nasties Woody cheese, and the mousies wont nibble your knees.

Group hug. Leg hump. Milk shake.

PEACE if not Harmony Skinbasket. :)

I believe we agree on this one.

GO PACKERS!!

[woodbuck27]

Now !

How about that truce? We have a huge game coming up. The Giants to defeat. :)

We're starting to act like the Catholics and the Protestants of Belfast Ireland. Not Packer fans all of us.

PACKERS FOREVER! :)

I will give you your truce, and the fact is I really do not want to waste any more of my time on this subject, I will not argue on this topic until the post season of 2008 begins, as for the verbal warfare, I will back off, although you did refer to me as a nazi.

Thank You Sir.

We imply a lot of things that don't hold any water here sometimes.I prefer it to be like a good marriage promise. At the end of the day the fighting ends with some better understanding or a promise to at least try to get there tomorrow.

I don't have any foundation of you being a Nazi Nutz. Therefore I don't think your a Nazi. I TRUST that you didn't lose any sleep over that one. :)If you got there or ever do again (miss sleep for any reason). May I recommend Valerian or a few beers. :)

Yes.

This may come up again in the off season. I hope that we can get there with more understanding all around. Bottom line is we all want the best for the Packers.

PACKERS FOREVER!

[woodbuck27]

I stand alone and I'll defend it all alone and do so very well Packer fans.


Some people stand alone righteously to defend something honorable. Other people stand alone simply because they are assholes. You're just an asshole Woody. You don't need a truce. You need to quit being an asshole.

Scott try harder to grow up. Get a grip.

Sure. :)

Packers Forever!

[woodbuck27]

Hmmm....I wonder if Nutz realizes that the alpha male in any dog pack is usually ruled over by the alpha female...

Any somewhat wise or sensable man realizes that WOMEN RULE mj. :)

Scott Campbell has seven of them trying their best to rule him but . . . It's hardly worth it.

[woodbuck27]

I stand alone and I'll defend it all alone and do so very well Packer fans.


Some people stand alone righteously to defend something honorable. Other people stand alone simply because they are assholes. You're just an asshole Woody. You don't need a truce. You need to quit being an asshole.


Scott I accepted the truce and I sort of see myself as a bad ass rightous leader and alpa dog of this forum, after all I am a heavy hitter around here so I took the truce for all of us against Woody. The last thing I want is for Woody to leave.

Nutz:

Trust this. I've never been a quitter. Not the way I was raised.

I love this forum. :)

GO PACKERS!!

[MJZiggy]

I prefer it to be like a good marriage promise. At the end of the day the fighting ends with some better understanding or a promise to at least try to get there tomorrow.



I thought in a good marriage promise, the fighting ended with make-up sex.

[Scott Campbell]

I stand alone and I'll defend it all alone and do so very well Packer fans.


Some people stand alone righteously to defend something honorable. Other people stand alone simply because they are assholes. You're just an asshole Woody. You don't need a truce. You need to quit being an asshole.

Scott try harder to grow up. Get a grip.

Sure. :)

Packers Forever!



Try harder???

I'm not trying at all.

[Freak Out]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

This is pretty funny....really.

[woodbuck27]

Woodbuck, the Packers had a higher #4 than New England. NE ended up getting him for less than the Packers offered. Why? Because Randy Moss had an exporbanant contract that nobody in the NFL was willing to eat. Any team trading any thing for Randy was doing it knowing Randy was going to renegotiate. With this in mind, Randy had power.

With his bargaining power he chose NE. The Packers probably could have swooped in with more money (If Randy ever gave them the chance to counter offer). That may have been a mistake but then again do you really want someone that wants to be somewhere else? It was a tough move, but I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it.

I was upset that he didn't get Moss and I'd call us the SB favorite if we had him. Hindsight, TT may have made a mistake (depending on how everything unfolded). It was a tough choice that most GM's accross the league thought was an easy one. They didn't even get in the discussion. Ted and one other GM did. Ultimately he made the wrong choice (or was victim of Randy's change of heart) and it hurts (more because NE is damn near unstoppable now) but at the end of the day, you can't really be too hard on the guy for the one move tha tdidn't pan out (esspecially when he was only one of two GM's on the right tack). Most everything else has worked out over the long run. What mroe can you ask for?

This has come up before.

Can someone check that. My time on the puter is very limited these days.

Oakland picked 1st and 11th in the 4th round.

We picked at position # 20 in the 4th round.

The issue of cost and Randy Moss wasn't a huge one ( or factor) this year as I understood it. The question was Moss doing very well as he has and retaining him for 2008 and beyond (with also his age a concsideration).

I'm not arguing this matter, rather trying to come to some real sense of it all, and the facts the best we can gleen them as a forum on all of this Randy Moss lands in NE stuff.

As a follow-up to above:

At some point in time:

Our original 4th round pick number 112 was traded to the Pittsburgh Steelers for No. 119 (in the 4th round) & 192 (in the 6th round).

[woodbuck27]

I prefer it to be like a good marriage promise. At the end of the day the fighting ends with some better understanding or a promise to at least try to get there tomorrow.



I thought in a good marriage promise, the fighting ended with make-up sex.

Wouldn't that be relly nice. :)

I doubt that is the case though generally but surely your jesting mj. The battle of the sex's will always go on.

[woodbuck27]

I stand alone and I'll defend it all alone and do so very well Packer fans.


Some people stand alone righteously to defend something honorable. Other people stand alone simply because they are assholes. You're just an asshole Woody. You don't need a truce. You need to quit being an asshole.

Scott try harder to grow up. Get a grip.

Sure. :)

Packers Forever!



Try harder???

I'm not trying at all.

That's evident Scott.

[woodbuck27]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

This is pretty funny....really.

Maybe just a good airing of dirty laundry. :)

[MJZiggy]

Woodbuck, if you go to packers.com, look in the 2007 video archives and check out Brett Favre's press conference from, I think, May 5, you will learn a lot. But be careful to get the right one, 'cause the one from the 18th could cure insomnia.

[woodbuck27]

Woodbuck, if you go to packers.com, look in the 2007 video archives and check out Brett Favre's press conference from, I think, May 5, you will learn a lot. But be careful to get the right one, 'cause the one from the 18th could cure insomnia.

I'll look that up mj.

THANK YOU. :D

[FritzDontBlitz]

I prefer it to be like a good marriage promise. At the end of the day the fighting ends with some better understanding or a promise to at least try to get there tomorrow.



I thought in a good marriage promise, the fighting ended with make-up sex.

I just wanted to say that for some reason my toes curled up when I read that.

[woodbuck27]

quote="JustinHarrell"]Woodbuck, the Packers had a higher #4 than New England. NE ended up getting him for less than the Packers offered. Why? Because Randy Moss had an exporbanant contract that nobody in the NFL was willing to eat. Any team trading any thing for Randy was doing it knowing Randy was going to renegotiate. With this in mind, Randy had power.

With his bargaining power he chose NE. The Packers probably could have swooped in with more money (If Randy ever gave them the chance to counter offer). That may have been a mistake but then again do you really want someone that wants to be somewhere else? It was a tough move, but I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it.

I was upset that he didn't get Moss and I'd call us the SB favorite if we had him. Hindsight, TT may have made a mistake (depending on how everything unfolded). It was a tough choice that most GM's accross the league thought was an easy one. They didn't even get in the discussion. Ted and one other GM did. Ultimately he made the wrong choice (or was victim of Randy's change of heart) and it hurts (more because NE is damn near unstoppable now) but at the end of the day, you can't really be too hard on the guy for the one move tha tdidn't pan out (esspecially when he was only one of two GM's on the right tack). Most everything else has worked out over the long run. What mroe can you ask for?[/quote]

This has come up before.

Can someone check that. My time on the puter is very limited these days.

Oakland picked 1st and 11th in the 4th round.

We picked at position # 20 in the 4th round.

The issue of cost and Randy Moss wasn't a huge one ( or factor) this year as I understood it. The question was Moss doing very well as he has and retaining him for 2008 and beyond (with also his age a concsideration).

I'm not arguing this matter, rather trying to come to some real sense of it all, and the facts the best we can gleen them as a forum on all of this Randy Moss lands in NE stuff.

As a follow-up to above:

At some point in time:

Our original 4th round pick [b]number 112 was traded to the Pittsburgh Steelers for No. 119 (in the 4th round) & 192 (in the 6th round).

[woodbuck27]

It's appearing to me that despite Randy Moss's record setting season with Tom Brady and 'the Pats' he'll (Randy Moss will be) on the move this off season.

It's just strange or odd to me that since his most recent and well documented problem in the media of a restriction order against him fr. some long time friend or acquaintenance that . . .that coincides with the fact he's only caught two (2) pass's in two playoff games and certainly isn't Bradys favourite target.

Is it just that better teams haver the answer Vs Randy Moss or his coming and succeeding has come to an end in terms of well we have a lot more than Randy Moss (Belichick).

This is pure speculation on my part, but interesting all the same to me.

Will Randy Moss be a Patriot next season?

I predict that he won't be. woodbuck27

[woodbuck27]

Woodbuck, if you go to packers.com, look in the 2007 video archives and check out Brett Favre's press conference from, I think, May 5, you will learn a lot. But be careful to get the right one, 'cause the one from the 18th could cure insomnia.

I'll look that up mj.

THANK YOU. :D

Good day mj:

Looking for that video and try as I may I'm not getting there: Could you please supply a link mj.

Thanks

[MJZiggy]

http://www.packers.com/multimedia/video/2007_non_game/

From there you just have to pick the player and day you want...

Just above the list there is a dropdown menu that says "Choose Section." Use that to switch years, or from gameday to non-game.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.packers.com/multimedia/video/2007_non_game/

From there you just have to pick the player and day you want...

Just above the list there is a dropdown menu that says "Choose Section." Use that to switch years, or from gameday to non-game.

I SEE THE VIDEO OF MAY 18TH MJ BUT NOTHING OF FAVRE AND HIM IN A VIDEO AROUND MAY 5TH.

I NEED HEADPHONES ANYWAY TO VIEW IT BUT I JUST WANTED TO LOCATE IT ALL THE SAME MJ.

DARN CAP LOCKS