Atari Bigby. . . .

[RashanGary]

Bigby is very inconsistant, but he's a legit playmaker in both the run game and the pass game.


Resume:

- Took Dwane Bowe out of the game in the first quarter of the Chiefs game
- Took Steve Smith (the rookie) out of the Giants game in the first quarter
- Has been a part of several drive ending plays in run support. He knocks running backs backwards like a linebacker
- Is an obvious threat rushing the passer, although he's only had a few chances this year
- Has 4 interceptions
- Has 3 forced fumbles


He also gives up some big plays (esspecially when the pass rush isn't getting to the QB).


He takes heat around here, but after Woodson, I think he's the biggest difference maker in our back 7. Barnett and Hawk are obviously more consistant, but Bigby is a killer who also has a nose for the ball. I don't think any WR's, RB's or TE's put tape in on Monday morning and get excited about lining up accross from Atari Bigby. I think over the course of the game, players remember the big shots they took in the 1st quarter and with guys like Bigby kicking ass on defense, we take the will out of our opponents by punching them in the mouth.

[packers11]

He also took out Al harris :wink:

Yea, I think your right though, he does make plays but does give some up...

He's only a first year starter, he has a ton of potential... He just needs to clean up his childish ways when things start to go out of control, because he gets way to many flags...

[oregonpackfan]

Bigby has been an impact player, mostly on the positive side.

I feel confident that with more experience he will eliminate more of his mistakes and become even more of an impact player.

[GoPackGo]

The week i finally drop him from my fantasy football team, he has his best game yet. :? that's what I get

[Carolina_Packer]

Good post, JH. The problem with the youth movement and success is that we sometimes forget when players are first year starters and that their is a progression to their career and success. I know there have been other threads debating whether this kid has IT or not. There are a lot of smart football minds here, many of whom have played football on some level or another. I can't even imagine the leap from practice squad to competing for a starting job in one year and this guy has some game changing ability? Yes, he's frustrating as hell sometimes in coverage, and I have no idea if that can get much better. Perhaps some of the football guys here can chime in as to whether coverage skills are more instinctive or whether it has to do more with technique, angles, etc. I think with this young kid you've obviously got some talent and ability, now we'll see how much that can be maximized. I think he has lot's of room for improvement and can make those improvements. I would feel discouraged if he had room for improvement, but not a lot of hope for improvement, especially in coverage. I would love to see him become a TE's worst nighmare!

[FritzDontBlitz]

I agree with Bigby's statement that he plays a much better game when he's used in blitzing schemes. I would guess that being called on to rush the passer gives him an outlet for his aggressive nature. The guy just wants to hit somebody, but often will choose the most inopportune moments to unload on an opposing player. In the last two weeks he's been sent in an assortment of blitzes, and he's turned in some awesome plays downfield as a result. Keep sending him, I know Al Harris appreciates having him in the QB's face instead of constantly blasting into him in the open field...

[MJZiggy]

He looks good wet. Nice sig, GPG. And you're right. That's what you get for dumping him...

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee4/jpopp79/mikegatorade.jpg

[MadtownPacker]

El pendejo Bigby did a good job yesterday but those picks where "right place, right time" all the way. Just like last week when Collins popped the raider and the ball went to Bigby. He did catch it so we can't say it was luck. He made the most out of his opportunities. Tthat is good enough for me.

[Noodle]

I'm a big Bigby fan, and I think we can expect a lot of improvement in the coverage area next year. He's athletic enough to perform basic coverage skills, though a little stiff in the hips. He's a safety, not a CB, so you can't expect him to be a lock-down guy. But he's got more than enough tools to cover, and you often see him pretty tight on his guy.

My view is that his coverage problems come from not being assignment sure and from looking in to the backfield too much. If you hesitate or take bad first steps in the NFL, you're going to get beat. The game is going to slow down for Bigby next year, and he's going to have an off-season of coaching up to get his assignments down. He's a keeper, and he provides a nasty that givese the D some character.

[BallHawk]

Considering Bigby is a UFA after the season, here's my stance on him: If he demands too much money we let him walk and we start Rouse. Otherwise, I'd be glad to have him if the price is right.

[Joemailman]

Bigby provides a physical presence at Safety the Packers haven't had in a while. Pass coverage is his weakness and probably always will be. However, you can say that about a lot of good safeties in the NFL. As long as he can learn to avoid most of the mental errors, getting beat from time to time in pass coverage is acceptable.

[Patler]

Considering Bigby is a UFA after the season, here's my stance on him: If he demands too much money we let him walk and we start Rouse. Otherwise, I'd be glad to have him if the price is right.

While do you say he is a UFA at the end of the season?
Won't he be a restricted free agent (RFA)?

[Freak Out]

.....is a freaky looking dude...but he can play and given time he should be a pretty good safety.

[MJZiggy]

Considering Bigby is a UFA after the season, here's my stance on him: If he demands too much money we let him walk and we start Rouse. Otherwise, I'd be glad to have him if the price is right.

While do you say he is a UFA at the end of the season?
Won't he be a restricted free agent (RFA)?

I believe you're correct, Patler (big surprise there...).

[vince]

Bigby's Exclusive Rights Free Agent at the end of the year, which gives him no leverage, except to hold-out, which doesn't do him any good either.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Considering Bigby is a UFA after the season, here's my stance on him: If he demands too much money we let him walk and we start Rouse. Otherwise, I'd be glad to have him if the price is right.

While do you say he is a UFA at the end of the season?
Won't he be a restricted free agent (RFA)?

I believe you're correct, Patler (big surprise there...).

Patler was wrong?
:D

[Patler]

Considering Bigby is a UFA after the season, here's my stance on him: If he demands too much money we let him walk and we start Rouse. Otherwise, I'd be glad to have him if the price is right.

While do you say he is a UFA at the end of the season?
Won't he be a restricted free agent (RFA)?

I believe you're correct, Patler (big surprise there...).

Patler was wrong?
:D
About what?

[vince]

Considering Bigby is a UFA after the season, here's my stance on him: If he demands too much money we let him walk and we start Rouse. Otherwise, I'd be glad to have him if the price is right.

While do you say he is a UFA at the end of the season?
Won't he be a restricted free agent (RFA)?

I believe you're correct, Patler (big surprise there...).

Patler was wrong?
:D
About what?
Patler, Bigby is in his 2nd NFL season, which still puts him under the Exclusive Rights category at the end of the season, not Restricted Rights, which is available after 3 NFL seasons... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restricted_Free_Agent
The only team he can sign with is the Packers this offseason under any scenario unless the Packers release him.

[sepporepi]

The only team he can sign with is the Packers this offseason under any scenario unless the Packers release him.

I bet he gets a vets minimun contract 8-)

[b bulldog]

terrible in coverage, plays his best when he is playing downhill towards the line of scrimmage. Makes way too many mental mistakes.

[SkinBasket]

terrible in coverage, plays his best when he is playing downhill towards the line of scrimmage. Makes way too many mental mistakes.

Don't forget slow.

[Guiness]

Since he's either an RFA or EFA, I'm guessing we'll get him for reasonable $$$ and get a chance to see him again next year.

btw I think he's an EFA. He certainly doesn't have 3 accrued seasons, which is what it takes to qualify as an RFA...does he even have one? He was IR'd last year, wasn't he? Does that count as a season?

Here's a decent article laying out the different free agency types:

http://www.askthecommish.com/freeagency/

As an EFA, he's pretty short of options...

[Bretsky]

Bigby is OK; he has had some fortunate breaks on the INT's off tipped passes. He's taken advantage of them. He's a hard tackler and enjoys inflicting the big blow. Love that about him. I can live with how he's playing.

But my confidence is still not strong when I see the ball up in the air and Bigby is the main cover guy. I still think he lacks ball skills and I still think he's the guy on defense teams can expose.

[Patler]

Patler, Bigby is in his 2nd NFL season, which still puts him under the Exclusive Rights category at the end of the season, not Restricted Rights, which is available after 3 NFL seasons... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restricted_Free_Agent
The only team he can sign with is the Packers this offseason under any scenario unless the Packers release him.

I know that. I was simply drawing a distinction between unrestricted free agents and those that are restricted in one way or another. Your description is not exactly correct either. There is no "release" that would make him free. If the Packers fail to tender a contract on or before March 1 he would be free. Teams can "release" only players that are under contract. Bigby's contract will expire, so technically he will be free unless the Packers make him "unfree".. :lol:

Under the new CBA a "less than three year veteran" (it does not refer to "exclusive rights free agents" anywhere that I have seen) has to be tendered a contract by March 1, similar to that for "three or more but less than 5 year" free agents (which are referred to as "Restricted Free Agents"). However, the player can not negotiate with any other team after he is tendered, so long as the tender is not withdrawn. The required tender amount is essentially the minimum. If the team does not tender the contract, or withdraws the tender, the player is free to negotiate with anyone.

Also, with respect to Bigby, it appears he is only a two year veteran, but in 2005 he was on the roster for at least two games. I think that is all, which would not entitle him to a year of service, but he is close. All that is needed is that "he was on, or should have been on, full pay status for a total of six or more regular season games". I have no idea what the "should have been" refers to! If he finds another 4 weeks in 2005 he qualifies for a third season.

[Tarlam!]

Bigby isn't as big a liabilty as our dinged up, slowing down Al' Harris. If the front 4 don't find a way to get some QB pressure, I am worried about Al's side of the field.

I love Al. He's class from head to toe. Damned hard worker. But he was soundly beaten in the end zone Sunday.

[Bretsky]

If we don't pressure the QB WR's will get open eventually. DL is still the strength of our team and if they melt down we will lose in the playoffs.

I'm not that worried about Al; he has had a couple poor games but has had a good season. Bigby's coverage skills scare me when he's forced to play a guy man to man..pressure or not.

[MJZiggy]

Does NFLE count? Wasn't he in NFLE that year, or was it 2006? If it even counts...

[Bretsky]

Does NFLE count? Wasn't he in NFLE that year, or was it 2006? If it even counts...

no

[RashanGary]

terrible in coverage, plays his best when he is playing downhill towards the line of scrimmage. Makes way too many mental mistakes.

Don't forget slow.

BS. The U wanted him to be their next safety but he turned them down because he didn't want to cut his hair. He's a typical under the radar Ted player. I think you think he's slow because he wasn't drafted. He does not play slow at all and he's never timed slow.

[RashanGary]

Here are Bigby's combine #'s...

Bigby, Atari SS Central Florida

5106 ht.

214 wt.

19 bench press

N/A N/A 40 yard dash (ran 4.53 at Pro Day)

35 vertical

9-4 broad jump

4.10 short shuttle

7.00 3-cone drill



He ran a better shot shuttle than Collins. Obviously his speed isn't off the charts, but there is nothing wrong with low 4.5's for a safety. Seems like big school kids get the best speed coaches and fluff theirs up a little anyway.

[vince]

Patler, Bigby is in his 2nd NFL season, which still puts him under the Exclusive Rights category at the end of the season, not Restricted Rights, which is available after 3 NFL seasons... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restricted_Free_Agent
The only team he can sign with is the Packers this offseason under any scenario unless the Packers release him.

I know that. I was simply drawing a distinction between unrestricted free agents and those that are restricted in one way or another. Your description is not exactly correct either. There is no "release" that would make him free. If the Packers fail to tender a contract on or before March 1 he would be free. Teams can "release" only players that are under contract. Bigby's contract will expire, so technically he will be free unless the Packers make him "unfree".. :lol:

Under the new CBA a "less than three year veteran" (it does not refer to "exclusive rights free agents" anywhere that I have seen) has to be tendered a contract by March 1, similar to that for "three or more but less than 5 year" free agents (which are referred to as "Restricted Free Agents"). However, the player can not negotiate with any other team after he is tendered, so long as the tender is not withdrawn. The required tender amount is essentially the minimum. If the team does not tender the contract, or withdraws the tender, the player is free to negotiate with anyone.

Also, with respect to Bigby, it appears he is only a two year veteran, but in 2005 he was on the roster for at least two games. I think that is all, which would not entitle him to a year of service, but he is close. All that is needed is that "he was on, or should have been on, full pay status for a total of six or more regular season games". I have no idea what the "should have been" refers to! If he finds another 4 weeks in 2005 he qualifies for a third season.
You referred to him as a restricted free agent. He's not. He's a second year guy, and "restricted free agents" must have three years of service. Regardless of whether it's referred to in the CBA, guys like Bigby are commonly referred to as "exclusive rights free agents."

Whether the term is "release" or "withdraws tender" the point is the same. He can't shop his services around the league, nor can other teams bid for his services. In other words, he's just like a draft pick, if he doesn't sign with the Packers, he can't play, until such time as the team "withdraws" their tender. That better?

Edit: And here's the reference to "Exclusive Rights Free Agent" from the NFL Players Association website. Hopefully, that's authoritative enough for you...

http://nflpa.org/CBA/free_agency_System_explained.aspx

[b]Exclusive Rights Free Agents – A player whose contract expires at a time when he has less than three Accrued Seasons in the NFL cannot market his services to other clubs if his old club gives him a minimum salary tender on or before March 1, 2007. If the tender is provided, this player can only re-sign with his old club (unless the tender is later withdrawn).

And here's the definition of "restricted free agent" from the Players Association...

Restricted Free Agent – A player whose contract expires when he has three Accrued Seasons (but less than four) is in this category in a capped year. If his old club provides him with a sufficient “Qualifying Offer” on or before March 1, 2007, it retains the right to either match an offer the player may get from another club or to receive draft choice compensation from the club making the offer. The Qualifying Offer is based on the level of draft choices the old club wants to receive. For Example, the Qualifying Offer to receive a first and third rounder in 2006 was $2,096,600. The Restricted Free Agent only has about a week before the draft (April 28 - 29 in 2007) to generate an offer from another club. If he fails to get an offer, his exclusive rights revert to the old club unless the Qualifying Offer is withdrawn.

[BallHawk]

BS. The U wanted him to be their next safety but he turned them down because he didn't want to cut his hair.

I've never heard this story before. Where'd you hear that from?

[b bulldog]

Bigby is a liability in coverage and does play better attacking the line of scrimmage. I'm worried bigtime about our Dline which will than expose our secondary if they continue to struggle to get any pressure. If we need to blitz like yesterday, they better get home because if they don't, bad things will happen.

[b bulldog]

I saw it on a pregame show also. he is from the carribean and the longer the hair, the more spiritual or something like that you are. His hair is sacred to him and he will not cut it

[The Shadow]

I am also fairly concerned about Al Harris. The Cowboy game demonstrated that Woodson covering T.O. would have been a far superior solution. If Harris does not get a very effective bump at the line, he has major problems.

[Lurker64]

BS. The U wanted him to be their next safety but he turned them down because he didn't want to cut his hair.

I've never heard this story before. Where'd you hear that from?\

Here is a reference (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=652196) for that.

[BallHawk]

BS. The U wanted him to be their next safety but he turned them down because he didn't want to cut his hair.

I've never heard this story before. Where'd you hear that from?\

Here is a reference (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=652196) for that.

Wow, never heard anything like that happening before.

I'm pretty sure the guy gets drafted if he goes to Miami.

[BallHawk]

Great quote by Bigby

"I just found out, a lot of guys don't like to get hit. And that's a good way of getting the respect of my teammates."

That's an attitude that I like to have on this team.

[vince]

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/packers/index.php?ntid=262468&ntpid=4


Bigby stands in defense of play
By BILL COONEY
608-252-6165
wcooney@madison.com
ST. LOUIS — Atari Bigby knows what all the armchair defensive backs out there have been thinking.

He also knows they're wrong.

"The way I look at it, if you're not inside the meeting rooms, sometimes you don't know exactly what's going on," the Green Bay Packers starting strong safety said.

"So it might look like I'm in the wrong position, I'm having a bad game, so guys might say, 'Bigby should be out.' But to myself, I'm an honest guy, I'm going to be honest with myself. If I'm playing bad, I'm going to say I'm playing bad. But I don't think I had any bad games. I had bad plays, but no bad games."

Bigby responded to some recent criticism — the kind that's been filling sports talk radio shows and Internet message boards in the past few weeks — in a big way Sunday afternoon, accounting for two interceptions in the Packers' 33-14 victory over the St. Louis Rams at the Edward Jones Dome.

Bigby's first interception came with the Packers clinging to a 17-14 lead late in the second quarter.

On a first-and-15 play from the Packers' 40-yard line, Rams quarterback Marc Bulger threw a pass behind Drew Bennett, who tipped it into the air to Bigby. The second-year player out of Central Florida returned it 18 yards, but — more importantly — wiped out a possible scoring opportunity for the Rams.

"I stuck my hand out there and the ball stuck to my hand," said Bigby, who also made four tackles.

Bigby made his second interception — his fourth of the season — on the Rams' first possession in the second half.

Nick Barnett made a hit on receiver Torry Holt as the ball was arriving and Bigby swooped in for the pick. The Packers converted the turnover into three points on Mason Crosby's 50-yard field goal for a 20-14 advantage.

Bigby, who picked off a pass last week against Oakland and had a 70-yard interception and touchdown return wiped out by a penalty, appears to have bounced back since struggling in coverage against Dallas.

"Atari's a good athlete, he's got good instincts and he likes to play the game," general manager Ted Thompson said. "It's been nice to see him make a couple plays, because I think he got some criticism that might've been a little unfair."

"He had another nice game," added defensive coordinator Bob Sanders. "You want to be hitting your stride here in December. That's our goal."

Another goal might be solidifying the run defense, given that Stephen Jackson and the injury-depleted Rams rushed for 173 yards. Bigby was partially to blame on Jackson's 46-yard TD run in the second quarter.

There's no arguing, however, that Bigby's pass defense has improved.

"I think he's kind of settled down," cornerback Charles Woodson said. "The game, they always say with experience, the game slows down for you a little bit. And I think that's what's happening for him now."

[RashanGary]

Great quote by Bigby

"I just found out, a lot of guys don't like to get hit. And that's a good way of getting the respect of my teammates."

That's an attitude that I like to have on this team.

I read that a while back (preseason I think). That was my favorite quote by a defense player this year.

[Deputy Nutz]

terrible in coverage, plays his best when he is playing downhill towards the line of scrimmage. Makes way too many mental mistakes.

No shit Sherlock, but the point is he is getting better, and hopefully mental mistakes get corrected with experience and help in the off season, he gets caught up in play action like most inexperienced safeties do, hell Nick Collins still gets busted on play action.

I have been critical of Bigby but he has had a good two weeks, he has rebounded nicely from a poor game against Dallas.

[Deputy Nutz]

Bigby is OK; he has had some fortunate breaks on the INT's off tipped passes. He's taken advantage of them. He's a hard tackler and enjoys inflicting the big blow. Love that about him. I can live with how he's playing.

But my confidence is still not strong when I see the ball up in the air and Bigby is the main cover guy. I still think he lacks ball skills and I still think he's the guy on defense teams can expose.

accurate explanation on Bigby's play.

[SkinBasket]

terrible in coverage, plays his best when he is playing downhill towards the line of scrimmage. Makes way too many mental mistakes.

Don't forget slow.

BS. The U wanted him to be their next safety but he turned them down because he didn't want to cut his hair. He's a typical under the radar Ted player. I think you think he's slow because he wasn't drafted. He does not play slow at all and he's never timed slow.

Well if "the U" wanted him, then he must be faster than you jerking off thinking about how fast he is. I don't think he's slow because he wasn't drafted, as you so ignorantly claim, but because when I watch him play, he is A) slow to react and B) slow getting where he needs to be. Fuck whatever his combine time was. All I care about is that he is consistently behind where he needs to be on the field.

On the INT off Bennett, Bigby had only started plodding his way upfield when the ball arrived, and it's only because there was still 10 yards to cover when the ball was tipped to him that he had plenty of time to react and catch it. If Bennett catches that ball he still has plenty of time to turn upfield and he only has to make one move and it's a TD. Atari was in the wrong place at the right time.

You can get all worked up about how awesome he is by ignoring the multitude of times when he's been completely out of position, confused, slow to respond, and how many times he's been burned for 6 points if you want. Have at it. While you're at it, forget all those yards given away by idiotic penalties that have hurt the team too. As for me, I'm hoping we can upgrade to an at least average safety this off-season that allows us to refocus on hiding our 2nd worst pass defender, Poppinga, in coverage.

[RashanGary]

You can get all worked up about how awesome he is by ignoring the multitude of times when he's been completely out of position, confused, slow to respond, and how many times he's been burned for 6 points if you want. Have at it. While you're at it, forget all those yards given away by idiotic penalties that have hurt the team too. As for me, I'm hoping we can upgrade to an at least average safety this off-season that allows us to refocus on hiding our 2nd worst pass defender, Poppinga, in coverage.

I don't think he's been burned for 6 nearly as many times as you think he has. The Packers give up 17 points per game (6th lowest in the NFL). I've watched every game multiple times and while he has been beaten quite a few times on deep sail routes that end up out of bounds, he hasn't gotten burned for 6 like you seem to think he has.

You have been right in the past on guys like Dendy and Herron (I never liked him either) but you are not right on Bigby. Bigby is a young, gifted saftey who brings more positive impact in his first year starting than most safeties do in two years.

[Carolina_Packer]

Again, that's what I keep going back to is the fact that the team is willing to start some guys who have little or no experience, which means you are going to have to deal with some mental lapses and breakdowns. To me I'm more interested in seeing his game improve. If that's possible, then he's got the potential to stick around, and is not another one year place holder like Manuel was.

[SkinBasket]

You can get all worked up about how awesome he is by ignoring the multitude of times when he's been completely out of position, confused, slow to respond, and how many times he's been burned for 6 points if you want. Have at it. While you're at it, forget all those yards given away by idiotic penalties that have hurt the team too. As for me, I'm hoping we can upgrade to an at least average safety this off-season that allows us to refocus on hiding our 2nd worst pass defender, Poppinga, in coverage.

I don't think he's been burned for 6 nearly as many times as you think he has. The Packers give up 17 points per game (6th lowest in the NFL). I've watched every game multiple times and while he has been beaten quite a few times on deep sail routes that end up out of bounds, he hasn't gotten burned for 6 like you seem to think he has.

You have been right in the past on guys like Dendy and Herron (I never liked him either) but you are not right on Bigby. Bigby is a young, gifted saftey who brings more positive impact in his first year starting than most safeties do in two years.

Give me a number then on how many he's responsible for and maybe I'll have something to consider.

But giving up TDs isn't the real problem, it's a syptom of what I think his real problem is. I watch most of the games multiple times too, and guess what? He doesn't get any better the second or third time you watch him misread a play. I see a guy who still doesn't understand where he needs to be until it's time for him to be there, by which time it's too late and he's trying to play catch-up. He is not fast enough to be that type of player. I haven't seen enough progress over these 14 games to believe he'll ever be significantly better than he is now, and what he is now is easily replaceable by a more well rounded S.

[b bulldog]

Doubt if he ever becomes anything more than a NFL starter

[RashanGary]

SB,

You typically don't talk shit about a player unless he really sucks or at least it's played out that way. I don't see it, but maybe you see something I'm missing.

I see a guy who's this close to being good and this close is pretty close.

[Iron Mike]

Hell, Chris Berman already gave him a nickname..... 8-)

[Patler]

You referred to him as a restricted free agent. He's not. He's a second year guy, and "restricted free agents" must have three years of service. Regardless of whether it's referred to in the CBA, guys like Bigby are commonly referred to as "exclusive rights free agents."

Whether the term is "release" or "withdraws tender" the point is the same. He can't shop his services around the league, nor can other teams bid for his services. In other words, he's just like a draft pick, if he doesn't sign with the Packers, he can't play, until such time as the team "withdraws" their tender. That better?

Edit: And here's the reference to "Exclusive Rights Free Agent" from the NFL Players Association website. Hopefully, that's authoritative enough for you...

http://nflpa.org/CBA/free_agency_System_explained.aspx

[b]Exclusive Rights Free Agents – A player whose contract expires at a time when he has less than three Accrued Seasons in the NFL cannot market his services to other clubs if his old club gives him a minimum salary tender on or before March 1, 2007. If the tender is provided, this player can only re-sign with his old club (unless the tender is later withdrawn).

And here's the definition of "restricted free agent" from the Players Association...

Restricted Free Agent – A player whose contract expires when he has three Accrued Seasons (but less than four) is in this category in a capped year. If his old club provides him with a sufficient “Qualifying Offer” on or before March 1, 2007, it retains the right to either match an offer the player may get from another club or to receive draft choice compensation from the club making the offer. The Qualifying Offer is based on the level of draft choices the old club wants to receive. For Example, the Qualifying Offer to receive a first and third rounder in 2006 was $2,096,600. The Restricted Free Agent only has about a week before the draft (April 28 - 29 in 2007) to generate an offer from another club. If he fails to get an offer, his exclusive rights revert to the old club unless the Qualifying Offer is withdrawn.

Of course he is a restricted free agent. Some might argue that he is the most restricted of free agents. It is simply a different level of restriction, especially as opposed to an unrestricted free agent.

In the long run, the distinction is really between unrestricted free agents and those who can be forced back to their former team. Neither "restricted free agents" nor "exclusive rights free agents" typically go anywhere other than back to their former team, if their former team really wants them back. The only difference is cost. Your exclusive rights free agent can be brought back for minimum salary, whereas the tender to a restricted free agent must be sufficient to require a level of compensation from any other team that dissuades them from making an offer. As it is, few restricted free agents get offers from other teams, even those receiving the lowest tender from their former team, which requires no compensation from another team, just a right of first refusal.

As to the NFLPA site as an authority, I will always defer to the controlling document, in this case the CBA, rather than to any synopsis of it, whether it be from the Management Council, the NFLPA or Wikopedia.

[Patler]

Whether the term is "release" or "withdraws tender" the point is the same. He can't shop his services around the league, nor can other teams bid for his services. In other words, he's just like a draft pick, if he doesn't sign with the Packers, he can't play, until such time as the team "withdraws" their tender.


I'm not sure the analogy is a good one.

The Packers have to tender a qualifying offer to Bigby by March 1, or he is free to negotiate with anyone. If they do not make a qualifying offer to him, he can negotiate with anyone he wants to, and no compensation would be owed to the Packers. A few years back a team lost an otherwise restricted player because they made an improper offer to him. I believe they specified the wrong salary in the offer, as I recall.

I do no believe a drafted player has any rights whatsoever, whether any offer is made to him or not. (Correct me if I am wrong on this. I am not able to verify it at present.)

[SkinBasket]

SB,

You typically don't talk shit about a player unless he really sucks or at least it's played out that way. I don't see it, but maybe you see something I'm missing.

I see a guy who's this close to being good and this close is pretty close.

I just think he would be easily replaceable, despite our problems finding players at this position, and I'm not ready to forgive his multitude of sins because he's not screwed up for a couple of weeks in a row - despite his easy to root for name. A player who lacks open field speed the way he does must learn where he needs to be in coverage to compensate. He just isn't doing that. He's standing still, waiting, and reacting. Too often, it's a step or two or three too late.

You see a guy who's close to being good. I see a guy who's close to being good. Thing is, I think he's as good as he's going to get.

[vince]

Whether the term is "release" or "withdraws tender" the point is the same. He can't shop his services around the league, nor can other teams bid for his services. In other words, he's just like a draft pick, if he doesn't sign with the Packers, he can't play, until such time as the team "withdraws" their tender.


I'm not sure the analogy is a good one.

The Packers have to tender a qualifying offer to Bigby by March 1, or he is free to negotiate with anyone. If they do not make a qualifying offer to him, he can negotiate with anyone he wants to, and no compensation would be owed to the Packers. A few years back a team lost an otherwise restricted player because they made an improper offer to him. I believe they specified the wrong salary in the offer, as I recall.

I do no believe a drafted player has any rights whatsoever, whether any offer is made to him or not. (Correct me if I am wrong on this. I am not able to verify it at present.)
OK Patler. The term restricted free agent has a commonly used definition that is 1) different than you used here, and 2) distinct from the commonly used term "exclusive rights free agent." Obviously, the third kind of free agency is "unrestricted free agent." All three are different from one another.

There's no practical distinction between a drafted player (who is an EFA) and a second year EFA. A drafted player has the right to be paid at least the minimum salary allowed by the CBA. A tender offer in an EFA's case can be an offer to pay the minimum allowable salary in the league. You can't pay anyone less than the minimum regardless, so, assuming you actually want to keep a player, then tendering him is a no-brainer act. Otherwise you would not tender him, thereby releasing your rights to the player. In the case of a draft pick, you also have to pay him the minimum allowable salary or release your rights to him. While the minimum salary differs a little bit, even that is very small relative to the overall team cap number. Any other distinction is academic and irrelevant.

[Carolina_Packer]

SB,

You typically don't talk shit about a player unless he really sucks or at least it's played out that way. I don't see it, but maybe you see something I'm missing.

I see a guy who's this close to being good and this close is pretty close.

I just think he would be easily replaceable, despite our problems finding players at this position, and I'm not ready to forgive his multitude of sins because he's not screwed up for a couple of weeks in a row - despite his easy to root for name. A player who lacks open field speed the way he does must learn where he needs to be in coverage to compensate. He just isn't doing that. He's standing still, waiting, and reacting. Too often, it's a step or two or three too late.

You see a guy who's close to being good. I see a guy who's close to being good. Thing is, I think he's as good as he's going to get.

Hey Skin, you seem to know football. Just wondering, in terms of your last point about him as good as he's going to get, what is it that you see in him that makes you believe he's maxed out his ability? Not challenging, just curious. Assuming we agree that all young defensive backs are going to have a learning curve and some inconsistencies, what do you need to see in a young defensive back to make you think they have greater potential, or have maxed out?

[FritzDontBlitz]

Great quote by Bigby

"I just found out, a lot of guys don't like to get hit. And that's a good way of getting the respect of my teammates."

That's an attitude that I like to have on this team.

I read that a while back (preseason I think). That was my favorite quote by a defense player this year.

Who is he talking about hitting: the opposing team or his temmates? Seems like he's constantly blasting into his own players, or hitting someone late on the sideline. I can live with the shakiness in coverage if he can eliminate the stupid penalties and his knack for taking out his own teammates.

As for the hair: if he's from the Caribbean and he says the hair is a spiritual thing he's likely rastafarian like Bob Marley was. The long hair is a religious principal, and um, so is >>>> :smk:

[Deputy Nutz]

Bigby is young, little football experience at the big time level. He was most likely a very good player at Central Florida, but not a special player at the division one level. The Packers front office has seen something in him to keep him around long enough for the coaching staff to also recognize it as well.

The Packers were not loaded at the safety position and Bigby stepped up in camp and claimed the job by mostly being a factor inside the box, blitzing and helping in run support. Something the Packers defensive staff has hardly used in the regular season. They have mostly kept him deep in coverage responsibility, in space where he had not proved himself in the preseason.

Most rookie safeties struggle in coverage in the NFL, defensive coverages are more complicated and require more precision than I believe at Central Florida. Where else Bigby struggles which is not unlike other rookie safeties is reading play action correctly and in a timely fashion. He has bitten on play action most of the season, unhelpful, but hopefully the more he watches film and learns to spots certain presnap reads play action passes shouldn't be as big of a concern in years to come.

I can't predict the future, but at the same time Bigby's play has been better than expected considering his background, I still think it is amazing that he even made the team. The Packers have Bigby, Collins, and Rouse with the ability to be starters for the Packers, right now that doesn't leave me with 100% confidence in that group and I believe it is an area that can hopefully be improved with either development of current players, free agency, and the draft to acquire depth at the position.

The outlook of the safety position is still better now than at the beginning of the year. Bigby is still a better option than Manuel or Underwood, and Rouse has proved in his limited playing time that he has ability to compete in this league, unfortunately Nick Collins is still dragging his feet at his position, and most likely unless the light bulb goes on in 2008 he most likely will never hit that high ceiling that scouts and personel men for the Packers believed he had.

[SkinBasket]

Hey Skin, you seem to know football. Just wondering, in terms of your last point about him as good as he's going to get, what is it that you see in him that makes you believe he's maxed out his ability? Not challenging, just curious. Assuming we agree that all young defensive backs are going to have a learning curve and some inconsistencies, what do you need to see in a young defensive back to make you think they have greater potential, or have maxed out?

All it would take is a few instances - just one or two really - of being pleasantly surprised to find Bigby deeper than the WR on a deep throw instead of a couple of steps behind. Or to see him moving toward his coverage responsibly before he comes wide open so he's there in time to defend the pass or hit the receiver when the ball gets there.

I agree with nutz that he is an improvement over what we've had there for the past few seasons, but I also don't as excited about him as a lot of people here do I guess. A game where he makes positive moves, not just stops himself from making negative ones, would go a long way toward making me believe he's a player that's capable of learning from his experience.

Until then I still have grave uneasiness when I think about a rematch with Dallas and imagine Poppinga on Witten over the middle with Bigby responsible deep.

[Bretsky]

I'd like to see him turn around and show some sense of being able to play the football while the ball is in the air.

Harris is decent at that and Woodsen very good. Sharper and Leroy Butler were very good at that.

That being said, as many have noted he's been alright and is definitely better than what we've had the past few years.

[The Leaper]

I love Al. He's class from head to toe. Damned hard worker. But he was soundly beaten in the end zone Sunday.

He held Holt to 3 catches for 21 yards. The TD was simply a great route run by Holt. Harris was hoping the defense could get to Bulger, and more or less sat on the slant...and Holt made a great break for the corner of the endzone.

Al struggles against WRs that he can't beat up at the line of scrimmage, or who have elite speed to make up for the jam at the LOS. Owens is strong enough to give Harris a fight, and is also bigger and faster than him. Owens owns nearly all CBs in the league...he's a beast.

[The Leaper]

Bigby remains a huge liability in coverage. His INTs this week really weren't the result of any great play on his part...although I'm glad he hung onto the ball both times.

Negatives: He doesn't possess good ball skills when a throw is up for grabs. He doesn't possess a good mind that will comprehend the situation and realize what his primary responsibility is. He takes poor angles...both in coverage and in blitzing.

Positives: He is a big hitter who can force fumbles and make receivers look for him. He generally can find the football quickly on run plays and isn't afraid to stick his nose into the fray.

Honestly, when I see Bigby, I see a slightly less athletic version of Roy Williams. Anyone talking smack about Roy better not be talking up Bigby. They are cut from the same cloth.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

terrible in coverage, plays his best when he is playing downhill towards the line of scrimmage. Makes way too many mental mistakes.

Don't forget slow.

BS. The U wanted him to be their next safety but he turned them down because he didn't want to cut his hair. He's a typical under the radar Ted player. I think you think he's slow because he wasn't drafted. He does not play slow at all and he's never timed slow.

Well if "the U" wanted him, then he must be faster than you jerking off thinking about how fast he is. I don't think he's slow because he wasn't drafted, as you so ignorantly claim, but because when I watch him play, he is A) slow to react and B) slow getting where he needs to be. Fuck whatever his combine time was. All I care about is that he is consistently behind where he needs to be on the field.

On the INT off Bennett, Bigby had only started plodding his way upfield when the ball arrived, and it's only because there was still 10 yards to cover when the ball was tipped to him that he had plenty of time to react and catch it. If Bennett catches that ball he still has plenty of time to turn upfield and he only has to make one move and it's a TD. Atari was in the wrong place at the right time.

You can get all worked up about how awesome he is by ignoring the multitude of times when he's been completely out of position, confused, slow to respond, and how many times he's been burned for 6 points if you want. Have at it. While you're at it, forget all those yards given away by idiotic penalties that have hurt the team too. As for me, I'm hoping we can upgrade to an at least average safety this off-season that allows us to refocus on hiding our 2nd worst pass defender, Poppinga, in coverage.

I agree with SB. I was thinking the exact same thing as I was watching the game yesterday. On his first pick, I was like WTF is he doing that far off when Bennett when that was clearly the only guy he had a chance of covering on that play. So why not cover him? His ass is getting real lucky with all the picks he's getting and that by no means makes him a good safety. I am much more impressed with Rouse and I can't believe he's not starting over Bigby. Just look at his pick against the lions, it was all instinct and it changed the game for us. That’s the type of safety I want starting. Someone who MAKES a play, not someone who just gets lucky.

[Carolina_Packer]

I love Al. He's class from head to toe. Damned hard worker. But he was soundly beaten in the end zone Sunday.

He held Holt to 3 catches for 21 yards. The TD was simply a great route run by Holt. Harris was hoping the defense could get to Bulger, and more or less sat on the slant...and Holt made a great break for the corner of the endzone.

Al struggles against WRs that he can't beat up at the line of scrimmage, or who have elite speed to make up for the jam at the LOS. Owens is strong enough to give Harris a fight, and is also bigger and faster than him. Owens owns nearly all CBs in the league...he's a beast.

The biggest disappointment I had with Al on that TD he allowed vs. Holt is that he seemed to slow down on the play when he was beaten. I don't understand why guys can't go like hell and jump or lay out for a play, even if they whiff. Better to contest a play all out than to be in the highlight reel just standing there with your thumb up your arse. Saying that, I know Al usually gives greater effort than that. Like passes at the line of scrimmage, why don't defensive lineman always throw their arms up to try and get them in the passing lane for a possible tipped pass? Yeah, the QB might usually throw it over the lineman, but you can't tip it if you don't even try.

[The Leaper]

The biggest disappointment I had with Al on that TD he allowed vs. Holt is that he seemed to slow down on the play when he was beaten.

Once Al saw the ball in the air, he knew he had no chance on that play. He could've run and dove at the ball while 5 yards behind Holt...would that have looked better?


Like passes at the line of scrimmage, why don't defensive lineman always throw their arms up to try and get them in the passing lane for a possible tipped pass? Yeah, the QB might usually throw it over the lineman, but you can't tip it if you don't even try.

I'd love to see you try to sack a QB by getting past a 300 pound man with your arms up in the air. DL guys are trying to tackle the QB first and foremost. Every hit on the QB takes its toll. You can't try to sack the QB while your arms are raised over your head.

Just about every single thrown pass is batted at by a defender near the LOS...I'm amazed more passes aren't deflected considering the size of these guys and how often their arms are within inches of the ball. Your reaction that there seems to be no effort in this regard confuses me.

[deake]

You will have to admitt when Bigby hits someone they know they have been hit. He stopped Jackson cold on that sideline play, but did look a little out of position on the Jackson touchdown run. Also keep in mind both Harris and Woodson like him, I would surely trust their judgement. Like I said before lets give him a little time. The one that puzzles me is Collins, he doesn't seem to be getting any better. Shouldn't he be playing at a higher level?

[Fritz]

I'm down with the Bigster.

[FritzDontBlitz]

Again, that's what I keep going back to is the fact that the team is willing to start some guys who have little or no experience, which means you are going to have to deal with some mental lapses and breakdowns. To me I'm more interested in seeing his game improve. If that's possible, then he's got the potential to stick around, and is not another one year place holder like Manuel was.

I agree, and I think Bigby's game improves when you blitz him a bit early in the game to satisfy his aggressive nature. He could create some serious havoc in the backfield if used at the right time, and he plays much faster than 4.53 speed.

Not that I think 4.53 is slow.

[Carolina_Packer]

The biggest disappointment I had with Al on that TD he allowed vs. Holt is that he seemed to slow down on the play when he was beaten.

Once Al saw the ball in the air, he knew he had no chance on that play. He could've run and dove at the ball while 5 yards behind Holt...would that have looked better?


Like passes at the line of scrimmage, why don't defensive lineman always throw their arms up to try and get them in the passing lane for a possible tipped pass? Yeah, the QB might usually throw it over the lineman, but you can't tip it if you don't even try.

I'd love to see you try to sack a QB by getting past a 300 pound man with your arms up in the air. DL guys are trying to tackle the QB first and foremost. Every hit on the QB takes its toll. You can't try to sack the QB while your arms are raised over your head.

Just about every single thrown pass is batted at by a defender near the LOS...I'm amazed more passes aren't deflected considering the size of these guys and how often their arms are within inches of the ball. Your reaction that there seems to be no effort in this regard confuses me.

Yeah, I would have been more satisfied to see Al run like hell and possibly dive to defend the pass, even if it still resulted in a TD catch by Holt. To me that's better than slowing down and just giving up, hoping he drops it.

As far as getting the arms up, I'm not talking about guys who are close to the QB, but guys who are engaged with a blocker who can see that the QB is going to release the ball for a pass. Why let him have a throw without at least it being contested with the D-lineman's arm's up? You may not tip it, but you'll never know unless you try.

[Noodle]

On the Bennett pick, why does everyone assume Bigby was out of position? Maybe he had deep cover responsibility and someone else should have dragged with Bennett. Unless you know the scheme and the defensive call, then you really don't know what Bigby was supposed to do on the play.

What I do know is that he made a sweet pick on the kind of richochet ball that you commonly see DBs drop. Besides, I'll take lucky over good any day of the week.