M3 Outcoached

[Partial]

Why did he stop running?!?! Ryan Grant was doing just fine.

[Rastak]

Why did he stop running?!?! Ryan Grant was doing just fine.


It's hard to do one thing exclusivly. I kinda doubt they would have continued to have success had Chicago focused exclusively on the run. I thought they should have thrown the ball a little earlier.

[MadtownPacker]

This is the 2nd straight game where lovie bitch-slapped M3. He better get his act together because no one is gonna put up with a Packers coach getting his ass handed to him by the bears every season.

[Partial]

Why did he stop running?!?! Ryan Grant was doing just fine.


It's hard to do one thing exclusivly. I kinda doubt they would have continued to have success had Chicago focused exclusively on the run. I thought they should have thrown the ball a little earlier.

I disagree. They started out the game with a big run. They got about 3 yards. Then two passing plays that were incomplete. Then they gave up the score.

After the TD run by Grant, I don't think they ran at all in the next series. Then, they would run on 1 of the 3 plays and thats it.

They tried to run their normal spread offense and it didn't work. Their is no reason to see 5 wide on first down on a 2 degree day with 40 mph winds and snow when they're down by 6 points.

[FritzDontBlitz]

This is the 2nd straight game where lovie bitch-slapped M3. He better get his act together because no one is gonna put up with a Packers coach getting his ass handed to him by the bears every season.

Not even if they finish 13-3?

Dude, its just one game. I am more disappointed in the first loss than this one. The first game was well in hand and they blew it. This was a weather induced meltdown. It happens.

If Lovie is banking on using the weather to beat the Packers every season I like our chances. This was New Years Eve in reverse. Let's move on.

[MadtownPacker]

Im not really pissed about the bears sweeping, I am pissed that they had a chance of home field advantage and laid a GDamn egg!! The fact it was the stupid, useless idiot bears only magnifies shit

[]{ilr]3]

This is the 2nd straight game where lovie bitch-slapped M3. He better get his act together because no one is gonna put up with a Packers coach getting his ass handed to him by the bears every season.

Not even if they finish 13-3?

Dude, its just one game. I am more disappointed in the first loss than this one. The first game was well in hand and they blew it. This was a weather induced meltdown. It happens.

If Lovie is banking on using the weather to beat the Packers every season I like our chances. This was New Years Eve in reverse. Let's move on.

This is worse than last year when we beat the bears. They didnt have anything to play for last year when we won. The Packers did and they lost. 10 times worse on this loss than than what the happened to the bears last year. :evil:

[RashanGary]

The Packers got outplayed. Plain and simple.

It was run run run punt block.
run run run punt block
pass pass pass punt block

The wind stopped the pass game and the Bears loaded up and stopped the run game. They would win 9 out of 10 times in those conditions.

[FritzDontBlitz]

Why did he stop running?!?! Ryan Grant was doing just fine.


It's hard to do one thing exclusivly. I kinda doubt they would have continued to have success had Chicago focused exclusively on the run. I thought they should have thrown the ball a little earlier.

I disagree. They started out the game with a big run. They got about 3 yards. Then two passing plays that were incomplete. Then they gave up the score.

After the TD run by Grant, I don't think they ran at all in the next series. Then, they would run on 1 of the 3 plays and thats it.

They tried to run their normal spread offense and it didn't work. Their is no reason to see 5 wide on first down on a 2 degree day with 40 mph winds and snow when they're down by 6 points.

Everyone will groan when I say this, but today was a day when the hated "U-71" package would have been perfect. I have always thought scrapping it altogether was a stupid idea - I also think scrapping it completely last season had more to do with Jeff Jaggofinski's intense dislike for Mike Sherman than it did with U-71's value as a running/passing option. M3 has no power running/passing scheme to compensate for situations like this, which also explains why they have so little success in 3rd/4th and 1 situations. No two TE sets, no short passes to the tight end over the middle, no short releases by the fullback OVER THE MIDDLE as a short yardage receiver - plenty to the flat, but very few passes over the middle to the FB like we had in the Hendo era. These things have been completely overlooked in the success of the 4 and 5 receiver sets, but after today it should be obvious that being able to move the chains consistently is the most important thing at this time of the year. M3 needs to get together with Favre and stress the importance of the TE and FB in the short passing game. This why I have been clamoring for Bubba's return for weeks. Donald Lee has been exceptional stretching the field but he seems to be nonexistent short. Use them both, because we need them both to succeed.

[Partial]

No it wasn't. Grant had 14 carries total. TOTAL. That includes mop-up time.

It went like this:

Grant for 24
Grant for 0
Favre incomplete
Favre incomplete
Ryan Fumbles (Bear ball at the GB 34)

Grant right tackle for 2 yards
Grant right end for 0 yards
Favre incomplete
Punt blocked (Bears ball at the GB 7)

Favre incomplete
Grant for no gain (on Packer 3 against a goal line formation)
Favre completion for 5 yards
Punt

Ryan Grant left tackle 4 yards
Ryan Grant right tackle 66 yards

Packers 7, Bears 6

Favre incomplete
Favre incomplete
Favre incomplete
Punt (9 yards, Bears start at Chicago 45)

Grant for 1 yard to run out the clock at the half




Grant left tackle no gain
Grant left end 4 yards
Favre interception (Bears start at GB 36)

Favre incomplete
Favre incomplete
Favre incomplete
Punt blocked for touchdown

Then the game was out of control.

Favre was a whopping 1/12 for 5 yards and 1 crucial INT. Why would you keep chucking it up in the terrible weather?

Grant was averaging 10.1 yards per carry at this point, including the 1 yard run to run out the clock before half. He was either boom or bust.

They took the rock out of his hands way too early. They couldn't move the ball through the air but didn't give it a chance on the ground. Why not try running it 3 times in a row like the Bears did so successfully?

[FritzDontBlitz]

{ilr]3]

This is the 2nd straight game where lovie bitch-slapped M3. He better get his act together because no one is gonna put up with a Packers coach getting his ass handed to him by the bears every season.

Not even if they finish 13-3?

Dude, its just one game. I am more disappointed in the first loss than this one. The first game was well in hand and they blew it. This was a weather induced meltdown. It happens.

If Lovie is banking on using the weather to beat the Packers every season I like our chances. This was New Years Eve in reverse. Let's move on.

This is worse than last year when we beat the bears. They didnt have anything to play for last year when we won. The Packers did and they lost. 10 times worse on this loss than than what the happened to the bears last year. :evil:

The Packers were playing for an IF. IF the Cowboys lose another game the Packers clinch #1 seed IF they win their last two games. The only reason its worse is because you want to believe it is. Did they lose their spot in the playoffs? Did they lose a first round bye? Would the game have been the same if the Packers style of play wasn't hindered by the weather conditions - weather conditions that are rarer in Chicago than a Hawaiian Tropics Bikini contest? No, no and no. It was about bragging rights, that's it. Who gives a fuck about bragging rights other than Bears fans?

The Packers lost a fluke of a game with very few injuries if any. They finished the day 12-3, at worst they will end the season 12-4 but I doubt they lose 2 in a row. They lost. It was ugly. You live with it and move on.

[LL2]

What the hell of a clunker game was this? I had to watch the game at a sport bar as my family and I are traveling to spend the holiday's in Wisconsin. I hope they got all of their bad stuff out of them so we will not see it in the playoffs.

By the way, Wisconsin is getting buried in an avalanche of snow!

[Partial]

If they aren't going to commit to the run, it will be better to play in Dallas. I say rest some guys next week. Let Favre play the first quarter with the starters, then let the back-ups play and let A-Rod get some game experience.

[Scott Campbell]

We've got to win the first game at Lambeau before we'll get an opportunity to play at Dallas. This team has fought all year to earn the right to play one at home in Green Bay in January. What we learned today is that they are not ready to compete in poor weather conditions. We now get to see how McCarthy and the crew will adjust to better prepare this team.

[RashanGary]

I don't think there is much MM can do. YOu have to have the horses if you want to win the race.

1. Pickett is the only good run stopping DT we have playing in the playoffs. Williams is average and Harrell is a notch below Williams.

2. The Oline is small and finesse. The only reason the run is effective is because the pass is such a big threat that teams rarely put 8 in the box.



This team is just not built to win bad weather games. Everything about their personal says finesse. When Jolly and Pickett were in the middle teams did not run. One guy goes down and we went from good run stopping to very mediocre. I don't think anything can be done to make this team better in cold weather. They are what they are IMO. Pickett would make a slight difference and the ST's could be better than terrible but other than that, I don't see this team every being better than average and most playoff teams are better than average so odds are we'd lose in this situation next time it arises.

[BF4MVP]

Random question: Why do we call him M3? It can't be his initials, as his name is Michael John McCarthy..Where did the whole "M3" thing come from?

Anyway, he didn't coach particularly well, but the team played like absolute garbage today..Fumbled snaps, blocked punts, dropped passes, interceptions..Those are execution problems, not coaching problems..Other than 2 runs, Grant couldn't run worth a shit either..Just a terrible game.

[cpk1994]

Random question: Why do we call him M3? It can't be his initials, as his name is Michael John McCarthy..Where did the whole "M3" thing come from?

Anyway, he didn't coach particularly well, but the team played like absolute garbage today..Fumbled snaps, blocked punts, dropped passes, interceptions..Those are execution problems, not coaching problems..Other than 2 runs, Grant couldn't run worth a shit either..Just a terrible game.McCarthy is M3 becuase he is the third Mike to be a head coach for Favre. Mike Holomgren, Mike Sherman, and now Mike McCarthy.

[BF4MVP]

Ah, I get it now, thanks.

[FritzDontBlitz]

I don't think there is much MM can do. YOu have to have the horses if you want to win the race.

1. Pickett is the only good run stopping DT we have playing in the playoffs. Williams is average and Harrell is a notch below Williams.

2. The Oline is small and finesse. The only reason the run is effective is because the pass is such a big threat that teams rarely put 8 in the box.



This team is just not built to win bad weather games. Everything about their personal says finesse. When Jolly and Pickett were in the middle teams did not run. One guy goes down and we went from good run stopping to very mediocre. I don't think anything can be done to make this team better in cold weather. They are what they are IMO. Pickett would make a slight difference and the ST's could be better than terrible but other than that, I don't see this team every being better than average and most playoff teams are better than average so odds are we'd lose in this situation next time it arises.

The Packers need to realize that the days of the wide open passing attack may be over for this season, at least outdoors in winter conditions.

A short passing game that utilizes the tight end and fullback more would work in these conditions as it worked for Bill Walsh's 49ers many times in similar weather. There was too much reliance on 4 and 5 receiver sets and hardly any emphasis on the running game. If you are going to spread the field then use a single back deep with QB under center to minimize poor exchanges between the two. Single back sets help open up the running lanes and limit the defense's ability to blitz. M3 outclevered himself today, but he has 3 weeks to adjust and do better. Bubba is back, so that helps the short passing game. I would sneak the U-71 package in as well, in some form. You can still pass from it, it just gives you another power formation that the players should still be familiar with.

[rdanomly]

As far as having no real power run formation, I thought the dual FB formation was taking that role. With one of the FB's hurt, so goes that formation & part of the power run.

[FritzDontBlitz]

As far as having no real power run formation, I thought the dual FB formation was taking that role. With one of the FB's hurt, so goes that formation & part of the power run.

Good point, I forgot about that.

[The Leaper]

What we learned today is that they are not ready to compete in poor weather conditions.

I think they are OK in everything other than strong winds. If it is 10 degrees with no wind, our passing offense will be fine.

[FritzDontBlitz]

I hope McCarthy installs some sort of gutcheck rushing offense soon: no zoning, minimal pulling by the linemen, just line up and knock people off the ball to grind out the yards 3 or 4 at a time. It would help their woeful 3rd and 1 conversion ratio for sure. Offensive linemen tend to love that macho style of play, unless they are able to pull it off :lol: . Its also the best offense suited for the cold winter conditions. As the weather gets worse you have to learn to simplify things. I hope M3 learned that lesson today.

[Deputy Nutz]

If you can't consistently gain 3.5 yards per carry, you don't have a running game worth a damn. I am not talking about averaging 3,5 yards, I mean consistently gaining 3.5 yards a carry and keeping drives alive by being able to gain first downs when it is third and short rushing the football.

[Scott Campbell]

Their short passing game sucked today too. The Bears were running terrific screen plays, and we couldn't catch a screen pass to save our lives. It was pretty ugly out there, but I feel pretty confident this team will shake it off.

[Partial]

If you can't consistently gain 3.5 yards per carry, you don't have a running game worth a damn. I am not talking about averaging 3,5 yards, I mean consistently gaining 3.5 yards a carry and keeping drives alive by being able to gain first downs when it is third and short rushing the football.

Today is seemed like Grant had a big gain, 4 yards, or no yards. So far he has shown he can be counted on to get some tough yards. It is impossible to predict what would have happened today because they completely went away from him.

I don't really understand why. The game was getting out of hand I realize but if you can't throw the ball into the wind you've got to try something else.

Several times during the game I mentioned to my dad that MM was practicing insanity. He kept trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

[Tarlam!]

Random question: Why do we call him M3? It can't be his initials, as his name is Michael John McCarthy..Where did the whole "M3" thing come from?

It dates back to the debate we had on JSO on what his nickname should be. MM was negatively stained by that CB that held out and now plays for a team based in Louisiana, that shall not be named.

So, not being able to call him MM, we called him the 3rd Mike, after Holmgren and Shermie were 1 and 2. Thus, he was dubbed M3.

[Partial]

One thing that was interesting to me was McCarthey's refusal to adapt today and change the teams style of play. Where were the true tight end sets with a fullback and pounding the ball. Why was there a single shotgun play until they got down big? No way Grant and co shouldn't have had 30 carries combined today.

Normally he strikes me as a very dynamic coach who will adjust to play with what he has and what is given to him by the opposition. Today that was definitely not the case imo.

[Partial]

In addition to that, why didn't we stack the box against the run or try some run blitzes? We have two of the best corners in the league. Why not let them go mono-a-mono and completely suffocate the run against the bears? It's not like Orton was going to beat them deep with that nasty wind.

[Fritz]

Coupla things. First, those of you clamoring for M3 to install some kind of new power running game surely realize that you can't do that after you've played fifteen games. It would fail miserably, and beyond the physical impossibility of getting eleven guys to learn a whole new style and execute it - in one or two or three weeks - there is the psychological message it sends: panic. What we've been doing all year isn't going to work now! Oh no!

I'm not against change or adjustment. But what it sounds like people are asking for is an entirely different blocking scheme and offensive approach altogether. And this brings me to the second point: what is disturbing to me is Bob Sanders' own lack of adjustment. Why keep sitting back with your safeties when you know that, first, the Bears are going to run, run, run, and second, when the wind conditions and the opponent's QB (lack of ability) dictate that you ought to force them to beat you with the pass? Why not take away the run by jamming the box with eight or nine, and dare Orton to be the game-winner?

[pbmax]

I agree with McGinn's assessment that neither on offense or defense did the Packers sell out and make the opponent adjust.

As for power running, not only did we have the two fullback formation, but we also had two nearly NFL caliber TEs playing for the first time since early in the season. I saw only one instance of two TEs, thought I admit, it wasn't my focus. Both times we passed.

On defense, we should have been eight in a box after the first series against Orton. I remember only one completed long throw.

But I do have this question of McGinn and this quote: "And he refused to play Aaron Rouse, his big run-stopping safety."

When did Rouse become the run stopping safety when all year we have only heard about his limitations in tackling, angles and assignments. I have thought ROuse was farther ahead in pass D than run D, did anyone observe this proficiency in his run defense?

[Carolina_Packer]

I did not see the game, but if you look at the scoring summary:

Scoring Summary GB - CHI
1st Quarter
4:15 CHI FG Robbie Gould kicked a 31-yard field goal 0 - 3

2nd Quarter
4:00 CHI FG Robbie Gould kicked a 35-yard field goal 0 - 6

3:08 GB TD Ryan Grant rushed to the right for 66 yard gain (Mason Crosby made PAT) 7 - 6

0:48 CHI TD Adrian Peterson rushed to the left for 8 yard gain (Robbie Gould made PAT) 7 - 13

3rd Quarter
8:30 CHI TD Kyle Orton passed to Desmond Clark to the left for 3 yard gain (2pt attempt converted, Kyle Orton pass to Greg Olsen) 7 - 21

7:23 CHI TD CHI blocked punt attempt by Jon Ryan. Corey Graham returned for 7 yards (Robbie Gould made PAT) 7 - 28

4th Quarter
11:20 CHI TD Brian Urlacher intercepted Brett Favre for 85 yards (Robbie Gould made PAT) 7 - 35

The Packers gave up 2 offensive touchdowns, which is pretty typical of them. The other two touchdowns were special teams and Favre's pick. They made too many mental errors to have a shot in this one. Clean it up and this one might have been a different story. I don't think they really had a shot, but if they don't give up field position and force Chicago to punt instead of giving up a score before half, who knows? We would have gone in 7-6 at the break.

Again, I didn't see the game, but it seems like if we are the best team at YAC, we would have gone for short, safe passes and let the receivers do their thing and get more yards. What happened in that respect? Take away the two gaffes; the punt block for a touchdown and the pick 6 and the score is 21-7. Still not a good game from the offense, but a better score. I don't understand why the Packers offense struggled so mightily, while the Bears seemed to handle the conditions and had two offensive scores.

[Scott Campbell]

But I do have this question of McGinn and this quote: "And he refused to play Aaron Rouse, his big run-stopping safety."


I think people might assume that he'll be stout against the run because of his size.

[rdanomly]

As for power running, not only did we have the two fullback formation, but we also had two nearly NFL caliber TEs playing for the first time since early in the season. I saw only one instance of two TEs, thought I admit, it wasn't my focus. Both times we passed.


It seems like Korey Hall might be a big part of that power run game. The game wasn't televised for me, did we run the dual fullback formation with the backups? Maybe his absence took away from what was possible, but you'd think having both TEs back would counter the FB loss..

[Kiwon]

I don't know if M3 is being outcoached but Lovie Smith definitely has the psychological edge. He's won 3 of 4.

2006
Bears 26 Packers 0 (Farve's first career shutout)
Packers 26 Bears 7

2007
Bears 27 Packers 20
Bears 35 Packers 7

[mission]

ive been, am, and will be an M3 supporter but he was a fucking retard on sunday. hindsight, currentsight and whateverelsesight-- it was a terrible game to watch. very little made sense.

[b bulldog]

Agree, I really like what MM has accomplished so far but he had a bad day on Sunday also.

[Freak Out]

And this brings me to the second point: what is disturbing to me is Bob Sanders' own lack of adjustment. Why keep sitting back with your safeties when you know that, first, the Bears are going to run, run, run, and second, when the wind conditions and the opponent's QB (lack of ability) dictate that you ought to force them to beat you with the pass? Why not take away the run by jamming the box with eight or nine, and dare Orton to be the game-winner?

This is exactly what the Bears were doing to us and it would have worked as well against the Bears. Baffling stuff by Sanders in another game that meant the world to the Packers as a team and the fans. Beat by the Bears twice...and this time by Orton.

[gbgary]

This is the 2nd straight game where lovie bitch-slapped M3. He better get his act together because no one is gonna put up with a Packers coach getting his ass handed to him by the bears every season.

clearly out coached this last game........the first game MM looked in the mirror at half-time and bitchslapped himself.

[GrnBay007]

This is the 2nd straight game where lovie bitch-slapped M3. He better get his act together because no one is gonna put up with a Packers coach getting his ass handed to him by the bears every season.

clearly out coached this last game........the first game MM looked in the mirror at half-time and bitchslapped himself.

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlLA/original/bitch-slap_1130536521.jpg


:P

[Guiness]

I'm in the boat that the U-71 is a good thing - but they just don't have the personel to do it. Who would be the extra tackle? Colledge?

[The Leaper]

Their short passing game sucked today too. The Bears were running terrific screen plays, and we couldn't catch a screen pass to save our lives. It was pretty ugly out there, but I feel pretty confident this team will shake it off.

I like what the Bears did with their screens...going outside and utilizing only one OL player as a blocker.

Green Bay is too preoccupied with middle screens...which get sniffed out way too easily.

[The Leaper]

I don't know if M3 is being outcoached but Lovie Smith definitely has the psychological edge. He's won 3 of 4.

The Bears are one of the few teams with the defense and special team play capable of beating us. Fortunately, the Bears rarely give 100% against anyone other than GB.