Ref fined for tackling Barnett

[digitaldean]

In keeping with the new link only rules....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3171273

Official Jim Quirk fined over $8K (1 game check) for tackling Barnett in Chicago game after being summoned by the commish to NY .

[The Leaper]

Thanks, Nick. Thanks to your stupidity, we aren't going to get ONE SINGLE CALL to go our way in the playoffs...as all the refs will be plenty ready to stiff the team that took a paycheck away from someone for no real reason whatsoever.

Barnett is a punk who deserves the legal trouble he's in and deserves to not be going to the Pro Bowl. Grow up, Nick...you can't solve your problems by throwing cell phones and filing lawsuits.

[packinpatland]

"as all the refs will be plenty ready to stiff the team that took a paycheck away from someone for no real reason whatsoever"

The commissioner disagrees. :wink:

[MJZiggy]

I bet Goodell's gonna be watching for that. If he made it clear that he is, this could bode well for the Pack as no one's gonna wanna call anything against us that's not blatant because they don't want to risk being wrong and getting fired for it.

[Jimx29]

Thanks, Nick. Thanks to your stupidity, we aren't going to get ONE SINGLE CALL to go our way in the playoffs...as all the refs will be plenty ready to stiff the team that took a paycheck away from someone for no real reason whatsoever.

I disgaree,
CW says that Piero and all the NFL will be watching closer at all calls from that crew, and when quirky comes back, should that happen to be a Packers game, he will be watched with an even closer eye and if he decides to sluff off, well then maybe getting fired as an incompetent ref might get his attention

[Iron Mike]

In keeping with the new link only rules....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3171273

Official Jim Quirk fined over $8K (1 game check) for tackling Barnett in Chicago game after being summoned by the commish to NY .

You mean we can't post pictures??

http://img4.glowfoto.com/images/2007/12/25-0044253172M.jpg

[The Leaper]

I bet Goodell's gonna be watching for that. If he made it clear that he is, this could bode well for the Pack as no one's gonna wanna call anything against us that's not blatant because they don't want to risk being wrong and getting fired for it.

They won't call anything blatant. Holding happens EVERY play. We all know that.

Big pass play...yellow hanky...HOLDING. It is that easy.

[MJZiggy]

And if they get overaggressive with it or lopsided calling, Goodell won't stand for it. He's got game film too and I'm sure his office will be able to tell if they are being one-sided with the hankies.

[packinpatland]

In keeping with the new link only rules....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3171273

Official Jim Quirk fined over $8K (1 game check) for tackling Barnett in Chicago game after being summoned by the commish to NY .

You mean we can't post pictures??

http://img4.glowfoto.com/images/2007/12/25-0044253172M.jpg


Nice :wink:

[The Leaper]

And if they get overaggressive with it or lopsided calling, Goodell won't stand for it. He's got game film too and I'm sure his office will be able to tell if they are being one-sided with the hankies.

I doubt refs will throw flags all over...that is sure to draw attention.

However, some might be upset that one of their own lost a paycheck, and I wouldn't put it past someone to just throw ONE at the wrong time...when they otherwise might not.

[Jimx29]

And if they get overaggressive with it or lopsided calling, Goodell won't stand for it. He's got game film too and I'm sure his office will be able to tell if they are being one-sided with the hankies.

I doubt refs will throw flags all over...that is sure to draw attention.

However, some might be upset that one of their own lost a paycheck, and I wouldn't put it past someone to just throw ONE at the wrong time...when they otherwise might not.Or the rest of the Refs think quirk is an asshole and got what he deserved

[Tarlam!]

Barnett is a punk who deserves the legal trouble he's in and deserves to not be going to the Pro Bowl.

Now, I would not wanna work for you, Leaper. This is harsh.

[The Leaper]

Now, I would not wanna work for you, Leaper. This is harsh.

Maybe...but the evidence is pretty clear that Barnett isn't very laid back and gets way too upset about things that happen to him. I'm not saying others might not be at fault in those situations, but Barnett needs to grow up and just let some things go once in awhile.

He likes to rock the boat...and that kind of stuff gets you in trouble, either on or off the field. That's my point.

[cpk1994]

Now, I would not wanna work for you, Leaper. This is harsh.

Maybe...but the evidence is pretty clear that Barnett isn't very laid back and gets way too upset about things that happen to him. I'm not saying others might not be at fault in those situations, but Barnett needs to grow up and just let some things go once in awhile.

He likes to rock the boat...and that kind of stuff gets you in trouble, either on or off the field. That's my point.But Nick didn't do anything. Goodell made this decision on his own. It had nothing to do with the grievance. Barnett hadn't even filed it yet. If you want to blame Nick, you might as well blame M3 also becuase he was critcal too.

[The Leaper]

But Nick didn't do anything.

He came out threatening a grievance...which would've been filed if the NFL had not done anything. The two actions are certainly related to each other, although it is possible Goodell would've fined the ref even without the grievance hanging over the league's head.

Again, I'm not justifying the ref's actions...I'm just pointing out that Barnett tends to be a hot head and that letting a cooler head prevail would be a good lesson for him to learn considering some of the hot water he's gotten involved in.

[cpk1994]

But Nick didn't do anything.

He came out threatening a grievance...which would've been filed if the NFL had not done anything. The two actions are certainly related to each other, although it is possible Goodell would've fined the ref even without the grievance hanging over the league's head.

Again, I'm not justifying the ref's actions...I'm just pointing out that Barnett tends to be a hot head and that letting a cooler head prevail would be a good lesson for him to learn considering some of the hot water he's gotten involved in.So what if he is a hothead? What the ref did was wrong and Nick has a right to point that out. Also, this ref had been in trouble for this more than once. Goodel made this decision without Nick's help.

[The Leaper]

So what if he is a hothead? What the ref did was wrong and Nick has a right to point that out. Also, this ref had been in trouble for this more than once. Goodel made this decision without Nick's help.

Let the coach talk to the league officials...don't make it your personal crusade.

If Goodell was going to make the decision anyway, why bother with threatening to file a grievance?

[cpk1994]

So what if he is a hothead? What the ref did was wrong and Nick has a right to point that out. Also, this ref had been in trouble for this more than once. Goodel made this decision without Nick's help.

Let the coach talk to the league officials...don't make it your personal crusade.

If Goodell was going to make the decision anyway, why bother with threatening to file a grievance?Becuase maybe Nick isn't a psychic who can read Goodells mind.

[Patler]

This will have no repercussions, at all. Per the press release (emphasis mine):


In determining the penalty, the league took into account previous incidents, including Quirk's contact Dec. 16 with Atlanta Falcons FB Jason Snelling on a kickoff return.

Quirk had gotten out of control, plain and simple.
Every player, coach or announcer that I have heard comment on the replay was shocked by what Quirk did, and apparently it was not his first time for being overly aggressive.

This was a dangerous action by Quirk, both to himself and Barnett. What if by grabbing Barnett around the neck and jerking him backward he had caused a whiplash or hyper-extension injury and Barnett had to sit out a couple games? Would your opinions be different? Is the action justified because there was no adverse result, but would not be justified if the result was bad?

[Kiwon]

"In Sports news today.....,

Wait.......we're getting a special report. This is shocking. It seems that Green Bay Packers Middle Linebacker, Nick Barnett, was tragically choked to death during a game when a deranged grandfather rushed onto field and killed him."

http://img4.glowfoto.com/images/2007/12/25-0044253172M.jpg

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Barnett did the right thing. What the ref did was dumb.

[BEARMAN]

You are right, prolly will not throw flags all over gb, just when it counts, TD's called back, !st downs no good, Defensive pass interferance on the goal line, stuff like that, judgement calls. I think I would have let this one ride, so close to the playoffs..... :shock:

[esoxx]

Quirk needed a slap-down. I'm glad he got fined and the next time he's likely out the door. He got what he deserved.

Although I see some are already positioning a built-in excuse for a playoff loss. No doubt it will be the fault of Nick Barnett and his complaints regarding the way over the line choke hold.

Some rogue official will do us in for sure. :roll:

[gbgary]

You are right, prolly will not throw flags all over gb, just when it counts, TD's called back, !st downs no good, Defensive pass interferance on the goal line, stuff like that, judgement calls. I think I would have let this one ride, so close to the playoffs..... :shock:

you're right. the league can watch as close as they want but a call will be made and that's that. the game will be over and if we get screwed so what. we're done. someone may get fined or fired but guess what...we're still done.

[MadtownPacker]

"fined over $8K (1 game check)"Is this $$ right?? So these guys earn $128,000 for a 16 game season? Damn, they get paid fat.

Patler - This move isn't too dangerous when applied correctly. Because you are getting the soft spot of the neck it kinda immobilizes the person being grabbed. I have seen cops do it several times and no one has ever gotten hurt. Does anyone know if the ref was in law enforcement? It would also explain why he acted so crazy. Off-duty cops always take things too far because well honestly, they can get away with it.

With all the attention brought to this I hope the refs play it straight when officiating the Pack games but if someone wants to make a bad call who is gonna stop them? Last I checked refs dont get fined for making bad calls.

I like Barnett's aggressive behavior but he need to know when to tone it down too.

[MadtownPacker]

You are right, prolly will not throw flags all over gb, just when it counts, TD's called back, !st downs no good, Defensive pass interferance on the goal line, stuff like that, judgement calls. I think I would have let this one ride, so close to the playoffs..... :shock:

you're right. the league can watch as close as they want but a call will be made and that's that. the game will be over and if we get screwed so what. we're done. someone may get fined or fired but guess what...we're still done.Thats what I think too. The call isnt getting reviewed in-game so if a zebra is out for revenge the Pack is screwed. This is like a legal battle against law enforcement. You might win the battle but you aint winning the war.

[Patler]

Patler - This move isn't too dangerous when applied correctly. Because you are getting the soft spot of the neck it kinda immobilizes the person being grabbed. I have seen cops do it several times and no one has ever gotten hurt.

The key word is "Correctly". Do NFL officials know how to do it correctly? Are they taught the correct way? I doubt it. Or do we test them and allow those who know how to do it correctly get away with it, and fine those who don't? That doesn't make sense either

The simple fact is that done INCORRECTLY it can lead to a hyper-extended neck. Police do it because they have to, a situation warrants it and hopefully they have been trained in subduing individuals by a number of techniques. Did Quirk have to do this? Of course not. That is why it was out of line. It is potentially dangerous and was not necessary.

I have been trying, without success, to find out what he did in the game a week ago that was also referred to as another incident considered by the NFL in fining him.

[MJZiggy]

Are you sure it was a week ago? I thought they were speaking in generalization over the course of the season, but I could be wrong...

[Jimx29]

QUIRK A BEARS FAN???
Quirk is best known in Packers-Bears lore for his 1989 call against Don Majkowski, claiming the Packers quarterback's foot had crossed the line of scrimmage, and that his 14 - yard touchdown pass to Sterling Sharpe with 32 seconds left was nullified. "Upon further review," replay official Bill Parkinson over-ruled Quirk (who was the line judge for the game) saying "Majik" had not crossed the scrimmage line in his rollout to his right and therefore, awarded the Packers a 14 -13 win over Chicago here at Lambeau Field.

Quirk played football in college, as a linebacker and guard at the University at Delaware.


Confirmed via wikipedia, so take hat for what it's worth

[MadtownPacker]

The key word is "Correctly". Do NFL officials know how to do it correctly? Are they taught the correct way? I doubt it. Or do we test them and allow those who know how to do it correctly get away with it, and fine those who don't? That doesn't make sense either

The simple fact is that done INCORRECTLY it can lead to a hyper-extended neck. Police do it because they have to, a situation warrants it and hopefully they have been trained in subduing individuals by a number of techniques. Did Quirk have to do this? Of course not. That is why it was out of line. It is potentially dangerous and was not necessary.

I have been trying, without success, to find out what he did in the game a week ago that was also referred to as another incident considered by the NFL in fining him.Im not saying it makes sense and it shoudln't be allowed unless the field turns into a royal rumble. Just saying that this official did it perfectly from my view. Thats why I wonder if he has a cop background. Old guy taking out the Pack's stud MLB hurt Nick's ego much more than his neck. :lol:

[Patler]

Are you sure it was a week ago? I thought they were speaking in generalization over the course of the season, but I could be wrong...

The news release said this:


In determining the penalty, the league took into account previous incidents, including Quirk's contact Dec. 16 with Atlanta Falcons FB Jason Snelling on a kickoff return.

[MJZiggy]

Then I guess you're sure... :lol:

More than you ever wanted to know. Not a cop, a securities trader, but I suppose these type of moves are needed by them too...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Quirk

Oddly enough, though, doesn't mention Snelling. I did find something in a Bucs forum, but that's not really a credible source either.

[Harlan Huckleby]

In determining the penalty, the league took into account previous incidents, including Quirk's contact Dec. 16 with Atlanta Falcons FB Jason Snelling on a kickoff return.

oh my god, he has priors! I'm starting to get interested in this Quirk guy, he's, well, quirky. He looks a bit like Uncle Joe on Petticoat Junction, if anybody remembers that TV show. Yet he has the heart of a tiger.

[Jimx29]

Me luvs me some girls from hooterville

[gbgary]

Me luvs me some girls from hooterville

imagine what they look like today. :D

[MJZiggy]

Me luvs me some girls from hooterville

imagine what they look like today. :D

The bigger they are, the harder they fall... :shock:

[Lurker64]

Aren't the refereeing crews for the playoffs "all-star officiating crews" as it were? That is, doesn't the league review the various officials for the quality of their calls throughout the season, and reward the best officials with playoff jobs?

If that's the case, the odds that we see Jim Quirk are low, whereas the odds we see Ed Hochuli or someone else are a lot higher. Most of the refs in this league are professional and reasonable and probably think that Quirk was likely over the line. I don't think there's a "thin black and white striped line" out there.

[cpk1994]

Aren't the refereeing crews for the playoffs "all-star officiating crews" as it were? That is, doesn't the league review the various officials for the quality of their calls throughout the season, and reward the best officials with playoff jobs?

If that's the case, the odds that we see Jim Quirk are low, whereas the odds we see Ed Hochuli or someone else are a lot higher. Most of the refs in this league are professional and reasonable and probably think that Quirk was likely over the line. I don't think there's a "thin black and white striped line" out there.Yes in fact they are all star crews. I remember Madden going an incoherent ramble about it, but safe to say Mr. Quirk will only see the playoffs if he is watching at home on TV.

[Patler]

Yes in fact they are all star crews. I remember Madden going an incoherent ramble about it, but safe to say Mr. Quirk will only see the playoffs if he is watching at home on TV.

The NFL prior to 2003 used "All-Star Officials". Now they use "All-Star Officiating Crews". The highest rated crews do the playoffs. Quirk could be in the playoffs if his crew is among the 8 highest ranked crews. (I think it is still 8 crews that are used.)

I believe the crews are rated on errors in calls made, more so than the type of thing Quirk did. It would be interesting to know how much that affects the crew's ranking. It would be hard to imagine the NFL using a crew with an official that had been docked a game's pay, but if it isn't part of the scoring system, you never know.

Madden's rant was over the fact that they used to take officials from different crews and put them together for the playoffs. They had never worked together and the coordination was off. There were a few major screw-ups a couple years ago which caused the NFL to keep the crews together for playoffs.

[Lurker64]

The NFL prior to 2003 used "All-Star Officials". Now they use "All-Star Officiating Crews". The highest rated crews do the playoffs. Quirk could be in the playoffs if his crew is among the 8 highest ranked crews. (I think it is still 8 crews that are used.)

How many officiating crews are there? I would figure there would have to be at the very least fifteen crews, since in Week 2 there were 15 Sunday games, and more likely sixteen crews (since there was a monday night game that week as well, and NFL refs aren't full-time so they probably wouldn't be asked to officiate on sunday and travel to officiate the next day.)

So Quirk won't even see the playoffs unless his crew is in the top half of NFL crews this year, and even so we'd only stand a 1/8 chance of getting him in the divisional round, and I believe he would only be eligible to officiate the championship round if he's in the top 4 crews, and would only officiate the Superbowl if his crew is the overall number one. All in all, the odds of seeing him again this year are not good.

[Patler]

I believe there are actually 17 crews. They need 16 for any weekend that doesn't have byes, and I think they have an extra crew available each weekend, just in case.

I agree it is unlikely that the Packers will see Quirk again this season, but it all depends on how high his crew is rated, not him personally, as to if he will do playoffs.

[MJZiggy]

It seems to me Mike Periera would do his best to keep that crew and GB away from each other as much as possible otherwise, he runs the risk of having the officiating matchup overshadow the game and that's the last thing they want (if Periera is the one in charge of deciding who goes where.). Either way, it's very likely a non-issue.

[Patler]

As a point of interest, Triplette's crew in 2006-2007, with Quirk as umpire, did work one playoff game. There are only a couple changes to his crew this season.

[BEARMAN]

It matters not witch "team" officiates. Just like us cops, you hurt/injure a brother in blue, and your name is mud, right, wrong, it don't matter ! You have damaged one of theirs, no matter how profesional they want to be, that will be in the back of all their minds ! It may not surface the whole game, untill the game is on the line, and a judgement call gose against your team, and they loose ! Just my .02 8-)

[BEARMAN]

sorry for the double post

[Lurker64]

It matters not witch "team" officiates. Just like us cops, you hurt/injure a brother in blue, and your name is mud, right, wrong, it don't matter ! You have damaged one of theirs, no matter how profesional they want to be, that will be in the back of all their minds ! It may not surface the whole game, untill the game is on the line, and a judgement call gose against your team, and they loose ! Just my .02 8-)

I don't think this is quite true, since not a single NFL official does this for a living. They're all investment bankers and lawyers who do this on the weekend because it's fun, they're not really professionals.

[Patler]

It matters not witch "team" officiates. Just like us cops, you hurt/injure a brother in blue, and your name is mud, right, wrong, it don't matter ! You have damaged one of theirs, no matter how profesional they want to be, that will be in the back of all their minds ! It may not surface the whole game, untill the game is on the line, and a judgement call gose against your team, and they loose ! Just my .02 8-)

This was the concern that was raised about replay challenges and making officials look bad. It hasn't materialized.

It doesn't matter what MM said, Barnett said or his agent said; the Packers didn't cause this to happen. The NFL did it on its own because of Quirk's actions in successive weeks.

[the_idle_threat]

I don't think officiating crews would call games against the Packers as a whole team because of this, but with his whining about this and the threat of a greivance, Barnett might not get away with anything marginal for a while. And he already plays kind of jacked up and dirty, because attitude is a big part of his game. That's what I'd be woried about. Not a large worry, but I think it can't be dismissed entirely.

And I don't believe the officials have any less pride just because they don't do the job as their primary living. If anything, succesful investment bankers and lawyers who manage to land one of the most visible officating jobs in sports might have an abundance of pride that might be tweaked by being called out by a guy they probably view (with good reason to some degree) as an especially hotheaded punk player.

But then again---on the other hand---if this particular offical is really some kind of hothead and maverick in his own right, maybe his peers can't stand him either and think it's just as well that Barnett threatened a grievance. It's all speculation on our part.

[Patler]

But then again---on the other hand---if this particular offical is really some kind of hothead and maverick in his own right, maybe his peers can't stand him either and think it's just as well that Barnett threatened a grievance. It's all speculation on our part.

In trying to find out about the situation two weeks ago, I ran across an article from 4 or 5 years ago that discussed his out and out tackle of a DB in a similar situation. One player said it was the best hit in the game. It was laughed about by all, including the "tacklee". Apparently he is and has been a physical official.

[Patler]

I don't think officiating crews would call games against the Packers as a whole team because of this, but with his whining about this and the threat of a greivance, Barnett might not get away with anything marginal for a while. And he already plays kind of jacked up and dirty, because attitude is a big part of his game. That's what I'd be woried about. Not a large worry, but I think it can't be dismissed entirely.


Sometimes it seems to work the opposite. Athletes who show up officials in their sports seem to be treated with greater tolerance than others.

[the_idle_threat]

I don't think officiating crews would call games against the Packers as a whole team because of this, but with his whining about this and the threat of a greivance, Barnett might not get away with anything marginal for a while. And he already plays kind of jacked up and dirty, because attitude is a big part of his game. That's what I'd be woried about. Not a large worry, but I think it can't be dismissed entirely.


Sometimes it seems to work the opposite. Athletes who show up officials in their sports seem to be treated with greater tolerance than others.

What is an example of this happening, I wonder? Seems pretty counterintuitive.

[Patler]

I don't think officiating crews would call games against the Packers as a whole team because of this, but with his whining about this and the threat of a greivance, Barnett might not get away with anything marginal for a while. And he already plays kind of jacked up and dirty, because attitude is a big part of his game. That's what I'd be woried about. Not a large worry, but I think it can't be dismissed entirely.


Sometimes it seems to work the opposite. Athletes who show up officials in their sports seem to be treated with greater tolerance than others.

What is an example of this happening, I wonder? Seems pretty counterintuitive.

At the time I was thinking of some of the "bad boy" wide receivers both past and present, who never get called for offensive interference, regardless of what they do. Some have whined, complained and pleaded for defensive interference all the time, and even criticized officiating in the press. Yet, they get away with man-handling DBs at critical times.

I was also thinking of the NBA and its treatment of fan-favorite players.

[the_idle_threat]

At the time I was thinking of some of the "bad boy" wide receivers both past and present, who never get called for offensive interference, regardless of what they do.

Ah yes. One Randy Moss comes to mind. for starters.

This is all conspiracy theory, but I wonder if those non-calls are not due to any special tolerance by the individual officials, but rather a league-wide directive from upstairs that the refs should let offensive star players make plays, because fans wanna see big scoring and their stars succeed? Just a thought. Speculation.

[Patler]

At the time I was thinking of some of the "bad boy" wide receivers both past and present, who never get called for offensive interference, regardless of what they do.

Ah yes. One Randy Moss comes to mind. for starters.


For me it was Michael Irvin.

[MadtownPacker]

Sometimes it seems to work the opposite. Athletes who show up officials in their sports seem to be treated with greater tolerance than others.

What is an example of this happening, I wonder? Seems pretty counterintuitive.Jordan. :x

But trying to apply this thinking to Barnett doesn't work because he isnt considered elite and so far has made a rep for himself as a semi-maniac.

[packinpatland]

The official that brought down Barnett, overheard the Bears offense offering up a Bud Lite! That has to be the reason. :wink:

Why has no one figured this out yet?

[]{ilr]3]

At the time I was thinking of some of the "bad boy" wide receivers both past and present, who never get called for offensive interference, regardless of what they do.

Ah yes. One Randy Moss comes to mind. for starters.

This is all conspiracy theory, but I wonder if those non-calls are not due to any special tolerance by the individual officials, but rather a league-wide directive from upstairs that the refs should let offensive star players make plays, because fans wanna see big scoring and their stars succeed? Just a thought. Speculation.

I was thinking Moss to! Seems like half the high lights you see of him he will be pushing off a defender that would have drawn a penalty for most WR.

[MJZiggy]

But at least this week, it didn't come to pass. We were only penalized twice for 25 yards. I'm thinking it's forgotten.

[MadtownPacker]

So much for the talk of quirk not being in the playoffs. His suspension was mentioned during the JAX/PITT game while he was out there looking to earn another Bud Light.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA4T5iRERo0&feature=related