Belichick Voted Coach of the Year

[hurleyfan]

Per ESPN Bill Belichick was named coach of the year...

I guess 16 & 0 trumps everything else :cry:

[Scott Campbell]

Breaking news........film at 11.

[MJZiggy]

And they say cheaters never win. What a great example for the younger fans!!

[Pacopete4]

let brady and belifag win those awards right now.. let em.....


we'l see em super bowl sunday and break their little hearts and don shula will be the one dumpin gaaaaaatorade on mccarthy haha

[packinpatland]

Anyone surprised? :roll:

[oregonpackfan]

Belichick is probably an advocate of the motto, "Nice guys finish last."

Fortunately, Tony Dungy proved that motto wrong last year when he won the Super Bowl.

[MJZiggy]

Belichick is probably an advocate of the motto, "Nice guys finish last."

Fortunately, Tony Dungy proved that motto wrong last year when he won the Super Bowl.

Can he prove it again when he knocks Belicheat out of the playoffs, please?

[BallHawk]

Final Standings out of 50 votes

Belichick- 29
McCarthy- 15
Wade Phillips- 2
Jack Del Rio- 2
Jon Gruden- 1
Tony Dungy- 1

[BallHawk]

Linkage

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3179438

[hurleyfan]

Linkage

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3179438

Thanks Hawk

[LL2]

Final Standings out of 50 votes

Belichick- 29
McCarthy- 15
Wade Phillips- 2
Jack Del Rio- 2
Jon Gruden- 1
Tony Dungy- 1

Good to see M3 was second and had more votes than the others after him combined.

[Freak Out]

M3 or Del Rio are more deserving than BB.

[Scott Campbell]

I think its amazing that McCarthy could get that many votes during a season in which the winner went undefeated.

[gbgary]

bb took the best team, talent wise, and gave them an "us against the world" attitude (after getting busted) and went 16-0. he deserves it. MM went 13-3 and the 3 loses can arguably be hung around HIS neck. he did a fine job this year. maybe next year with a little more experience he'll get it.

[Deputy Nutz]

Some of you need to just let it go, his team went 16-0 for god's sake. When was the last time it was done? I remember a lot of teams going 13-3.

[BallHawk]

bb took the best team, talent wise, and gave them an "us against the world" attitude (after getting busted) and went 16-0. he deserves it. MM went 13-3 and the 3 loses can arguably hung around HIS neck. he did a fine job this year. maybe next year with a little more experience he'll get it.

I think that, for the most part, is a fair analysis. I think MM has had some difficulty with play calling and game planning, but I think the loss always falls on the players and not the coach, unless it is an extreme situation.

I'm sure MM wishes he would of got the award, but hopefully he can make it to the Super Bowl and at least shows he belongs.

[sepporepi]

http://www.brettspielwelt.de/Other/5.gif


... and I hope Billecheat is standing on the right.

[Jerry Tagge]

Let's see, New England already had the best talent in the NFL, were picked by many to win the Super Bowl, get caught cheating, and their coach gets coach of the year.

Packers were picked by nobody outside the state of Wisconsin to win their division (and not many in Wisconsin picked them to win), have the youngest team, were picked by many to finish under .500, have an aging QB whose best days were supposedly behind him, yet finish 13-3 and get a first round bye and their coach doesn't win the award.

McCarthy got more out of less talent. Belichick cheated and gets rewarded.

It looks like the only ones of have less integrity than Belichick is the media.

[fan4life]

If you believe that winning is everything, then BB deserves it.

He had the year won when he realized he needed more talent and bent the rules to go after guys like Welker, Thomas and Moss. Belicheck didn't back down from the challenge of harnassing Moss' enormous talent and is reaping the rewards. I give him all the credit in the world for his part in making his team invincible.

Mike Tirico put it this way on his radio show, "The only one who could have stopped the Patriots this year was Ted Thompson, who blew the opportunity to sign Randy Moss for a 3rd or 4th round draft pick. He didn't have the guts to trust that his organization could handle the immensely talented but volative receiver and now no one can handle the Patriots' offense."

I just hate the fact that BB felt the need to cheat to win. It would have kept me from voting for him. Because, while winning is everything, a society that rewards cheating to achieve that end is degenerate.

[Scott Campbell]

"The only one who could have stopped the Patriots this year was Ted Thompson, who blew the opportunity to sign Randy Moss for a 3rd or 4th round draft pick."


The only one?

Yeah, like none of the other 30 teams had a 3rd or 4th to go get Moss.

[fan4life]

"The only one who could have stopped the Patriots this year was Ted Thompson, who blew the opportunity to sign Randy Moss for a 3rd or 4th round draft pick."


The only one?

Yeah, like none of the other 30 teams had a 3rd or 4th to go get Moss. Moss held a significant card in the negotiations; he wouldn't have renegotiated his contract to catch balls from the likes of Cleo Lemon.

[Scott Campbell]

"The only one who could have stopped the Patriots this year was Ted Thompson, who blew the opportunity to sign Randy Moss for a 3rd or 4th round draft pick."


The only one?

Yeah, like none of the other 30 teams had a 3rd or 4th to go get Moss. Moss held a significant card in the negotiations; he wouldn't have renegotiated his contract to catch balls from the likes of Cleo Lemon.


Maybe not. But I doubt he would have turned his nose up at Peyton Manning, or any number of other good to great quarterbacks. There were plenty of other teams that could have entered the bidding, but the conventional wisdom was that the extra baggage wasn't worth it.

Tirico saying that Ted was the only one that could have stopped the Patriots is borderline ridiculous.

And Moss' card wasn't all that significant, or he would have garnered way more than a 4th round pick.

[MJZiggy]

"The only one who could have stopped the Patriots this year was Ted Thompson, who blew the opportunity to sign Randy Moss for a 3rd or 4th round draft pick."


The only one?

Yeah, like none of the other 30 teams had a 3rd or 4th to go get Moss. Moss held a significant card in the negotiations; he wouldn't have renegotiated his contract to catch balls from the likes of Cleo Lemon.

I thought I heard he wouldn't renegotiate to catch balls from anyone other than Brady...That was the discussion at the time--whether TT should pay out his contract since he wouldn't negotiate it...

[Zool]

"The only one who could have stopped the Patriots this year was Ted Thompson, who blew the opportunity to sign Randy Moss for a 3rd or 4th round draft pick."


The only one?

Yeah, like none of the other 30 teams had a 3rd or 4th to go get Moss. Moss held a significant card in the negotiations; he wouldn't have renegotiated his contract to catch balls from the likes of Cleo Lemon.

I thought I heard he wouldn't renegotiate to catch balls from anyone other than Brady...That was the discussion at the time--whether TT should pay out his contract since he wouldn't negotiate it...

For some reason Zig, that never gets discussed in the Moss threads. Oh well. Water under the dam.

[Cheesehead Craig]

To the winners go the spoils.

We have a hell of a good coach and I'm happy with that.

[packinpatland]

To the winners go the spoils.

We have a hell of a good coach and I'm happy with that.


I can live with that.

[KYPack]

If you believe that winning is everything, then BB deserves it.

He had the year won when he realized he needed more talent and bent the rules to go after guys like Welker, Thomas and Moss. Belicheck didn't back down from the challenge of harnassing Moss' enormous talent and is reaping the rewards. I give him all the credit in the world for his part in making his team invincible.

Mike Tirico put it this way on his radio show, "The only one who could have stopped the Patriots this year was Ted Thompson, who blew the opportunity to sign Randy Moss for a 3rd or 4th round draft pick. He didn't have the guts to trust that his organization could handle the immensely talented but volative receiver and now no one can handle the Patriots' offense."

.

I'm glad he won because it probably pisses him off. I'd love to be a pesky reporter at the press conference. I'd drive him nuts until they threw me out.

[Jimx29]

Belichick Voted Coach of the Year *

[fan4life]

For the record, TT admitted to Peter King (SI) that he miscalculated Randy's value and blew the negotiations for him - so let's not make this thread about the player. It isn't... I only mentioned Tirico's comment to back up my point that Belicheck knew what he needed to make his offense unstoppable.... and went about getting the best receivers available. In doing so, he took a risk that others shied away from. For that he deserves all the credit in the world.

Personally, I think what MM has done in building an offense around Favre and a group of talented young receivers is similarly remarkable. And I would love for GB to stick it to the Pats in the SuperBowl. Realistically (and sadly), though, I don't think that is going to happen. I've seen Randy Moss beat the Packers too many times.

[FritzDontBlitz]

Who actually votes for that shit anyway? Sportwriters, right? And where are most of them headquartered? East coast?

There is no east coast bias, children. Don't worry about how overhyped every team from that area is, it just isn't true.

Doesn't surprise me that Bellidick got the award. Tirico needs to tone down the cheapshots, though. We didn't get Randy Moss, now its TT'S fault 16 teams couldn't beat the Pats? Did TT call a timeout from the Ravens sideline at the same time his defense stopped Brady on 4th and 1? Did Teddy Bear get burned twice on consecutive plays by Randy Moss running the same deep sideline pattern with the game on the line? Did TT's brain seize up completely cuz a QB he never trusted anyway ruins a career night by throwing a pick late in the game and refuse to let that QB throw another pass - even though his running back was facing 9 man fronts as he was fighting off leg cramps the entire 4th quarter?

Wait, forget all that. Tirico's right. This is just the excuse we've been waiting for. Fire TT now.....

[packinpatland]

Getting back to BB being voted coach of the year.

There's really no debating his coaching skills. He is very good, probably the best right now. But he broke the rules.

There's no debating that Pete Rose was an exceptional baseball player, he was destined for the Baseball Hall of Fame. He broke the rules.

How is this different?

[hurleyfan]

I have no problem that Belichick won the COY, but is he the GM also? He the person that made the decision to sign Moss?

I think Belichick deserves the award, as the only coach to lead his team to a perfect regular season record at 16 & 0...

I WISH McCarthy won it due to what the Packers achieved with the talent they had and expectations placed before them at the start of the year..

I believe there were quite a few "voters" that wanted to vote for someone other than Belichick, but how can you ignore perfection?

[BallHawk]

Getting back to BB being voted coach of the year.

There's really no debating his coaching skills. He is very good, probably the best right now. But he broke the rules.

There's no debating that Pete Rose was an exceptional baseball player, he was destined for the Baseball Hall of Fame. He broke the rules.

In the case of both of those individuals their cheating did not affect their success. Belichick still would of won 16 games and Pete Rose still would of lead the league in hits. Yes, it is immoral to say that, since their cheating didn't affect their performance, that they shouldn't be punished for it, but that's the way I feel about it. Of course, it's kind of comparing apples to oranges considering BB cheated the actual game and Rose cheated out of the game. Either way, both should be in the HOF.

[]{ilr]3]

Some of you need to just let it go, his team went 16-0 for god's sake. When was the last time it was done? I remember a lot of teams going 13-3.

I dont recall any other coach ever fined $500,000 for cheating!

[hurleyfan]

And that is what really makes it hard to accept... he beat out "our" guy :(

[Freak Out]

And that is what really makes it hard to accept... he beat out "our" guy :(

True.......plus our guy's team got the shit beat out of them by the fucking Bears when we really needed a win.

[Fosco33]

Since '03, the coach that won this award has not won the Super Bowl (Pats did it last time though).

Guess history would bode well for us...

[Tony Oday]

BB is not that great of a coach folks. HE has the talent around him to be great. Look at his years as a browns head coach I dont think he did anything that great there...

[packinpatland]

Since '03, the coach that won this award has not won the Super Bowl (Pats did it last time though).

Guess history would bode well for us...

What's the track record of the runner up?

[MJZiggy]

Since '03, the coach that won this award has not won the Super Bowl (Pats did it last time though).

Guess history would bode well for us...

You do know how to make me feel better...

[Carolina_Packer]

My older brother and I were having a friendly argument/discussion the other day about Belichick and Spygate, and he defended the position that there was too much made of the whole thing and Belichick was punished well enough. I strongly disagreed with him, and called him a Belichick apologist. We were watching the Giants/Patriots game and I was rooting for the Pats to lose because I didn't want to see the 'Cheat go undefeated. He said it was fun to watch them play, and while I can't disagree that they are a great team, it doesn't change the taste in my mouth over what someone would do against the rules to try and win. I think the NFL wanted everyone to think that they came hard after BB, but really the punishment was light. Robert Kraft probably paid his 500K fine out of some other business he has and he told his accountant to try and deduct it or write it off the books, and as for the losing the draft pick, yeah, that's tough, but thanks to the over-exuberant 49'ers thinking this was their year and giving away their 2008 first round pick (#7 as it's turning out), to get the Patriots 2007 #28 pick, the Patriots have an even better first round pick to more than make up for the loss, plus the Patriots smartly used the 4th rounder that the 49'ers also included in the draft day deal last year to give to Oakland for Randy Moss before TT could give his 4th to Al Davis. How did BB and NE suffer? It's ridiculous to insist that they suffered for what they did.

They should have had to forfeit that game against the Jets, which would have tarnished the perfect record, and BB should have been suspended 4 games and fined as well. Hell, Wade Wilson, the Dallas QB's coach was suspended at least that many games for taking HGH under a doctor's orders, not even enhancing anything, while BB openly goes against the rules, cheats, never shows contrition and gets a light punishment. Then the league destroys the evidence as quickly as it can and levies the punishment because they want the issue to go away very quickly and not hurt the league's image, and the image of one of the best teams. It stinks.

[/soapbox]

This is still my favorite thing after the scandal....

http://ickscorner.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/patsnewlogoia7custom1.jpg

[Zool]

I've tried to stay out of this, but I just cant.

In baseball there are people trying to steal signals during the game all the time. Watch a hitters eyes look back and down while getting into his stance. There is waaaaay too much being made about this video taping.

If you think that no one has ever cheated fine, but thats just not reality. The Pats just happened to get caught. 16-0 has never been done and it had little to do with attempting to lip-read a defensive coordinator IMO.

[The_Dude]

I'm of the belief that if you cheated you should be automatically disqualified from winning this award. The fact that he went 16-0, while amazing, still doesn't mean that he did the best coaching job.

Hence, look at the '72 Dolphins who's coach Don Shula didn't even win the award that year Dan Devine did of the (ironically) Green Bay Packers.

I still think they should have been forced to forfiet that game against the Jets, but that's just my opinion.

[GrnBay007]

I'm of the belief that if you cheated you should be automatically disqualified from winning this award.

I agree.

People like us will never know the whole truth about the deal but it sure did appear that the NFL slapped a fine on in order to pacify people and they quickly tried to brush it under the rug.

[Zool]

So every time you speed, you should turn yourself in to the police. I know he won an award but cmon. This isn't the Pulizter here.

[GrnBay007]

So every time you speed, you should turn yourself in to the police. I know he won an award but cmon. This isn't the Pulizter here.

speeding = cheating in the NFL (and then getting rewarded for it) :?:

[Carolina_Packer]

I've tried to stay out of this, but I just cant.

In baseball there are people trying to steal signals during the game all the time. Watch a hitters eyes look back and down while getting into his stance. There is waaaaay too much being made about this video taping.

If you think that no one has ever cheated fine, but thats just not reality. The Pats just happened to get caught. 16-0 has never been done and it had little to do with attempting to lip-read a defensive coordinator IMO.

Baseball and hockey have their own form of justice on the field or in the rink. If you are caught stealing signs or relaying signs, the next time you are up to bad, you are going to get drilled. In hockey, if you touch my goalie, it's go time, drop the gloves, we're both taking minors and playing some 4 on 4. It's just understood. Football doesn't have that brand of justice, really.

You know how less can be made of the issue, Z? A better, more appropriate punishment that hits hard, and doesn't leave fans wondering why the league took it easy on BB and the team, while sending a message to the rest of the league. Make them forfeit the Jets game, and make BB be suspended for a few games. If it's in the rule book that you can't do this, and BB is such a smart guy, then he knew what he was doing, which makes it even less forgiveable. Just because you can get away with doing something, doesn't mean it's right, just ask Bill Clinton. He admitted as much in his book a few year's ago, right after his presidency.

If you are so talented, why cheat to try and win? Can't your normal gamesmanship, preparation and execution do enough for you? It's like Richard Nixon in 1972. I don't know what his poll numbers were against McGovern at the time, but I gotta believe he had a pretty comfortable lead in the summer of 1972 when he ordered the break-in. If you know you have a good enough chance to win on your own merits and effort, then why cheat? It just tarnishes your image.

[Zool]

I was taking it to an extreme. I'm trying to point out that cheating in the NFL happens all the time. Every play. Holding is cheating. Roughing the passer is cheating. If you think no Packers have ever used HGH you're fooling yourself.

Its just not a big deal to me. Its a sport for entertainment. I have a hard time getting worked up over it I guess.

[MJZiggy]

I tend to look at it as this is a sport that a lot of kids are addicted to. They watch, follow and learn. In baseball they're trying to steal signals, but you don't see the third base coach with a video camera trying to get a better shot of the catcher...

The Pats got caught, more than once and tried to play it off. This season should be toast for them as far as getting rewards and honors go. Maybe it wasn't a big deal to you but millions of kids just saw the known cheater get the biggest honor the coach can get for it. (besides winning the SB)

[GrnBay007]

I tend to look at it as this is a sport that a lot of kids are addicted to. They watch, follow and learn. In baseball they're trying to steal signals, but you don't see the third base coach with a video camera trying to get a better shot of the catcher...

The Pats got caught, more than once and tried to play it off. This season should be toast for them as far as getting rewards and honors go. Maybe it wasn't a big deal to you but millions of kids just saw the known cheater get the biggest honor the coach can get for it. (besides winning the SB)

Exactly!!!

The message that was sent....or rather failed to be sent was absolutely pathetic when you think in terms of our YOUTH.

[Tony Oday]

Our youth are screwed anyway ;) hehe jk I hope not for my sons sake :)

BB is a cheat and they will not make the super bowl...write that down.

[Zool]

That I would agree with, but I teach mine specifically not to look up to anything on TV.

[Tony Oday]

That I would agree with, but I teach mine specifically not to look up to anything on TV.

lol I agree :)

[The Leaper]

In baseball there are people trying to steal signals during the game all the time. Watch a hitters eyes look back and down while getting into his stance. There is waaaaay too much being made about this video taping.

The last time I checked, there was no written rule in baseball about stealing signs. Some aspects of that are viewed as a part of the game, others are viewed as being lowbrow. It depends on the circumstances.

There WAS a written rule regarding the kind of video taping that the Patriots got caught doing. There was no gray area. There was a clear rule that the Patriots violated...even AFTER the Commissioner sent a letter to every team prior to the season regarding video taping, explicitly telling teams to knock it off.

I don't see the comparison in the two situations. I do agree that what the Patriots did probably was not all that influential in winning or losing, but the bottom line was that they were in violation of a clear WRITTEN rule adopted by the league in the spirit of fairness. Guys who steal signs in baseball are not guilty of this.

[FritzDontBlitz]

My older brother and I were having a friendly argument/discussion the other day about Belichick and Spygate, and he defended the position that there was too much made of the whole thing and Belichick was punished well enough. I strongly disagreed with him, and called him a Belichick apologist. We were watching the Giants/Patriots game and I was rooting for the Pats to lose because I didn't want to see the 'Cheat go undefeated. He said it was fun to watch them play, and while I can't disagree that they are a great team, it doesn't change the taste in my mouth over what someone would do against the rules to try and win. I think the NFL wanted everyone to think that they came hard after BB, but really the punishment was light. Robert Kraft probably paid his 500K fine out of some other business he has and he told his accountant to try and deduct it or write it off the books, and as for the losing the draft pick, yeah, that's tough, but thanks to the over-exuberant 49'ers thinking this was their year and giving away their 2008 first round pick (#7 as it's turning out), to get the Patriots 2007 #28 pick, the Patriots have an even better first round pick to more than make up for the loss, plus the Patriots smartly used the 4th rounder that the 49'ers also included in the draft day deal last year to give to Oakland for Randy Moss before TT could give his 4th to Al Davis. How did BB and NE suffer? It's ridiculous to insist that they suffered for what they did.

They should have had to forfeit that game against the Jets, which would have tarnished the perfect record, and BB should have been suspended 4 games and fined as well. Hell, Wade Wilson, the Dallas QB's coach was suspended at least that many games for taking HGH under a doctor's orders, not even enhancing anything, while BB openly goes against the rules, cheats, never shows contrition and gets a light punishment. Then the league destroys the evidence as quickly as it can and levies the punishment because they want the issue to go away very quickly and not hurt the league's image, and the image of one of the best teams. It stinks.

[/soapbox]

This is still my favorite thing after the scandal....

http://ickscorner.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/patsnewlogoia7custom1.jpg

A very interesting take on this thing. Reminds me of when LB Shawn Merriman was suspended 4 games for violating the league's substance abuse policy - but then was allowed to attend the Pro Bowl the very same year. It also begs the question: if Barry Bonds deserves an asterisk for the home run record, why aren't any asterisk arguments being offered up by the sportswriters about 16-0 or the coach of the year awards?

[woodbuck27]

And they say cheaters never win. What a great example for the younger fans!!

mj? What's the name of that fruit that they use to make wine with?

ahhhh. . . that and the word sour come to mind. Yup 16-0 should get you voted HC of the year. Especially when the best any other team without Randy Moss did was 13-3.

His team is 1-8 favourites to win the Super Bowl. He prepares his team for any eventuality in a matchup.

He has the common sense to go out and grab a gift in Randy Moss when it's presented. To really boost the teams real chance to get to and win the Super Bowl. Suppose that Ted Thompson went to school on that one mj?

Much forgivness for Teddy. Afterall he's just. . . a GM 'in training'. What can we really expect?

Well actually. . . half a brain comes to mind. :)

So there is further proof that. . . that man Belichick is an opportunist, as he knew how 'on the cheap' he could play Ted Thompson. Belichick must have been scratching his head after that one.

Wondering if it was something like this during the 2007 Draft??:

'' What the heck - one of the Greatest WR's in NFL History for a late 4th rounder. . .Hahahahaha . . . What's the water like up in Green Bay? Well he certainly went for a long piss!! ''. . . Bill Belichick

[Cheesehead Craig]

:beat:

[woodbuck27]

:beat:

If he is ours we go to and win the Super Bowl or not but our chances are really enhanced. That's the one that slipped under the radar of TT's foresight.

He and everyone here should be reminded of what a dumbass move that was to allow NE to have Randy Moss so DAM cheap. Forget the real chance that having that talent would have given us as really serious contenders, and NOT that we're right out of it either as we have a shot.

Allowing NE to get Randy Moss so cheap is just sick!!!!

Oooooo. . . is this one of those deja vous moments? I think it is. :)

[MJZiggy]

We weren't discussing Randy Moss, we were discussing whether someone who was caught cheating at the beginning of the year should be bestowed with the highest honor he could get in the year that he was caught cheating in an attempt to get ahead (thereby increasing his odds of winning said award). So by your last post is your stance that the cheater should be rewarded?

[woodbuck27]

We weren't discussing Randy Moss, we were discussing whether someone who was caught cheating at the beginning of the year should be bestowed with the highest honor he could get in the year that he was caught cheating in an attempt to get ahead (thereby increasing his odds of winning said award). So by your last post is your stance that the cheater should be rewarded?

Belichick did a whole lot more that wasn't cheating mj. He did a lot of solid coaching, preparing and managing of his team. Again !

The man who took the heat for cheating against the Jets in game one got caught and was penalized along with the organization mj. It's done!

How long does he have to pay for that lack of good judgement mj when he's paid the price already?

How long before you forgive him mj? See how I am then with TT? Some things just too tough for us simple mortals to find forgiveness for.

When it's now obvious all those who count in deciding he deserved the HONOR of Coach of the year must have to vote him through.

Now the part about Randy Moss and Bill Belichick will be written about and dicussed for decades mj, as the acquisition of Moss is simply put HUGE in making the Pat's obviously the choice to win the Super Bowl.

Randy Moss is the difference maker. We've witnessed that for most of his awesome career havn't we mj? Just a flat out GREAT wide receiver that can dominate a game like few WR's ever have been capable of.

[MJZiggy]

To my mind he'll always be a cheater. This season for him will always be tarnished. However, to my mind he starts with a clean slate next year. If he earns the award next year when he hasn't cheated for it, so be it. But there will always be the wonder in the back of my mind as to how much of his genius this season was learned by watching the tapes he made of defensive calls from last year.

And I can pretty much guarantee you that this Randy Moss discussion will not go on for decades unless that is how long you intend to keep bringing it up.

[MOBB DEEP]

the world is going to hell in a hand crate...and sports are merely a microcosm

we're in the age of "anything goes..."

how can that possibly be good in the grand scheme o things?

he's arrogant, dismissive, and says screw the unwritten rules predicated on morality; whereas dungy promotes "doin it the right way" (i know MANY in the nfl would do what BB did, but can u see dungy advocating that?)

it's a no-brainer for thoughtful folk..either MM or.....

GET ROMEO..............!!!!!!!!!

[Scott Campbell]

I told you it was like reading ransom notes.

[woodbuck27]

I told you it was like reading ransom notes.

READ this Pokey.

Offseason both quiet and noisy

The Packers added just one free agent during the offseason — backup cornerback Frank Walker — which generated criticism of Thompson by fans and media. But the most controversial decision came when Thompson failed to trade for Oakland Raiders receiver Randy Moss, who instead was shipped to the New England Patriots on draft weekend.

Thompson's failure to give the Packers' offense a boost drew criticism from an unlikely source — Favre.

However, Thompson and Favre patched up their differences, and the Packers boasted one of the deepest receiving corps in the league with holdovers Donald Driver and Greg Jennings and the addition of Koren Robinson and rookie James Jones.

Some still wonder how much better the Packers might be with Moss, who posted a record-breaking season with the Patriots.

As usual Scott:

I win !!

[woodbuck27]

I told you it was like reading ransom notes.

READ this Pokey. I'm not the only Packer fan disappointed in TT's performancwe over this past season.

Offseason both quiet and noisy Borrowed fer. another thread

The Packers added just one free agent during the offseason — backup cornerback Frank Walker — which generated criticism of Thompson by fans and media. But the most controversial decision came when Thompson failed to trade for Oakland Raiders receiver Randy Moss, who instead was shipped to the New England Patriots on draft weekend.

Thompson's failure to give the Packers' offense a boost drew criticism from an unlikely source — Favre.

However, Thompson and Favre patched up their differences, and the Packers boasted one of the deepest receiving corps in the league with holdovers Donald Driver and Greg Jennings and the addition of Koren Robinson and rookie James Jones.

Some still wonder how much better the Packers might be with Moss, who posted a record-breaking season with the Patriots.

As usual Scott:

I . . .well you know :)

[Cheesehead Craig]

:beat:

If he is ours we go to and win the Super Bowl or not but our chances are really enhanced. That's the one that slipped under the radar of TT's foresight.

He and everyone here should be reminded of what a dumbass move that was to allow NE to have Randy Moss so DAM cheap. Forget the real chance that having that talent would have given us as really serious contenders, and NOT that we're right out of it either as we have a shot.

Allowing NE to get Randy Moss so cheap is just sick!!!!

Oooooo. . . is this one of those deja vous moments? I think it is. :)
This is all you ever talk about. We get it. We know how you feel about it. Move on. Say something different for a change.

No, I'm not some "TT apologist" or anything like that. Your constant railing on this issue is beyond annoying.

Oooooo. . . is this one of those deja vous moments? I think it is. :)

[Bretsky]

Anyone surprised? :roll:


Nobody should have been. Anybody paying attention to when most of the votes are taken would know anybody on the border between MM and BB probably chose BB after the Bears disaster.

[Bretsky]

Some of you need to just let it go, his team went 16-0 for god's sake. When was the last time it was done? I remember a lot of teams going 13-3.

:bclap:

[Bretsky]

BB is not that great of a coach folks. HE has the talent around him to be great. Look at his years as a browns head coach I dont think he did anything that great there...

Come on; BB stunk in Cleveland. People learn. BB is the best coach in the NFL. His past three Super Bowl titles speak volumes to that. He's beaten teams with equal of better talent plenty of times in the past. His game planning is amazing. He belongs with the best of the best.

[Bretsky]

My older brother and I were having a friendly argument/discussion the other day about Belichick and Spygate, and he defended the position that there was too much made of the whole thing and Belichick was punished well enough. I strongly disagreed with him, and called him a Belichick apologist. We were watching the Giants/Patriots game and I was rooting for the Pats to lose because I didn't want to see the 'Cheat go undefeated. He said it was fun to watch them play, and while I can't disagree that they are a great team, it doesn't change the taste in my mouth over what someone would do against the rules to try and win. I think the NFL wanted everyone to think that they came hard after BB, but really the punishment was light. Robert Kraft probably paid his 500K fine out of some other business he has and he told his accountant to try and deduct it or write it off the books, and as for the losing the draft pick, yeah, that's tough, but thanks to the over-exuberant 49'ers thinking this was their year and giving away their 2008 first round pick (#7 as it's turning out), to get the Patriots 2007 #28 pick, the Patriots have an even better first round pick to more than make up for the loss, plus the Patriots smartly used the 4th rounder that the 49'ers also included in the draft day deal last year to give to Oakland for Randy Moss before TT could give his 4th to Al Davis. How did BB and NE suffer? It's ridiculous to insist that they suffered for what they did.

They should have had to forfeit that game against the Jets, which would have tarnished the perfect record, and BB should have been suspended 4 games and fined as well. Hell, Wade Wilson, the Dallas QB's coach was suspended at least that many games for taking HGH under a doctor's orders, not even enhancing anything, while BB openly goes against the rules, cheats, never shows contrition and gets a light punishment. Then the league destroys the evidence as quickly as it can and levies the punishment because they want the issue to go away very quickly and not hurt the league's image, and the image of one of the best teams. It stinks.

[/soapbox]

This is still my favorite thing after the scandal....

http://ickscorner.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/patsnewlogoia7custom1.jpg

I know I'm in the minority when I say this; I agree with your brother.

[Bretsky]

I've tried to stay out of this, but I just cant.

In baseball there are people trying to steal signals during the game all the time. Watch a hitters eyes look back and down while getting into his stance. There is waaaaay too much being made about this video taping.

If you think that no one has ever cheated fine, but thats just not reality. The Pats just happened to get caught. 16-0 has never been done and it had little to do with attempting to lip-read a defensive coordinator IMO.

:knll: :bclap:

[Bretsky]

I was taking it to an extreme. I'm trying to point out that cheating in the NFL happens all the time. Every play. Holding is cheating. Roughing the passer is cheating. If you think no Packers have ever used HGH you're fooling yourself.

Its just not a big deal to me. Its a sport for entertainment. I have a hard time getting worked up over it I guess.


STOP being a wuss in your argument. What BB did had little effects on much of anything and other teams try it. The Jets were caught doing it last year but it was wiped under the table because they suck. Mangini hates BB and got him. This is much ado about nothing and the fair punishments have been handed out. It's a great topic for the Patriot haters; that's about it. Now fight with me and stop backing down :lol:

[b bulldog]

16-0, it is a nobrainer although I wish MM would have won the award.

[Bretsky]

I tend to look at it as this is a sport that a lot of kids are addicted to. They watch, follow and learn. In baseball they're trying to steal signals, but you don't see the third base coach with a video camera trying to get a better shot of the catcher...

The Pats got caught, more than once and tried to play it off. This season should be toast for them as far as getting rewards and honors go. Maybe it wasn't a big deal to you but millions of kids just saw the known cheater get the biggest honor the coach can get for it. (besides winning the SB)

Down with the only cheater in the world; if coaches are role models these days than we are all in trouble.

[MJZiggy]

Then we are all in trouble.

[Bretsky]

To my mind he'll always be a cheater. This season for him will always be tarnished. However, to my mind he starts with a clean slate next year. If he earns the award next year when he hasn't cheated for it, so be it. But there will always be the wonder in the back of my mind as to how much of his genius this season was learned by watching the tapes he made of defensive calls from last year.

And I can pretty much guarantee you that this Randy Moss discussion will not go on for decades unless that is how long you intend to keep bringing it up.

He'll be yanking the rules around next year like the rest of them do. He's the best coach in the NFL...been that the past five years. If there was a yawn picture I'd create a big fat one here when discussing scamgate.

[Bretsky]

16-0, it is a nobrainer although I wish MM would have won the award.


I hope MM can win three SuperBowls and get to be 16-0.....with GB

[b bulldog]

That would be quite nice

[MJZiggy]

That would be quite nice

Agreed.

[Bretsky]

Then we are all in trouble.

Or parents can shift the focus to good role models :idea:

[MJZiggy]

They could. Do they? :!:

[GrnBay007]

I believe 16-0 is very worthy of coach of the year. I also believe a coach that was caught cheating should also not be in the running for the award....I don't care if it had been MM....I'd feel the same.

Your position on this surprises me B. You were in sports all those years and I'm betting you would like to see your kids in sports. Will a cheating coach not bother you then either?

Why is society becoming "OK" with letting wrong stuff slide?

[Bretsky]

They could. Do they? :!:

I can only speak for myself........and it appears that I can only reproduce chicks

[Bretsky]

I believe 16-0 is very worthy of coach of the year. I also believe a coach that was caught cheating should also not be in the running for the award....I don't care if it had been MM....I'd feel the same.

Your position on this surprises me B. You were in sports all those years and I'm betting you would like to see your kids in sports. Will a cheating coach not bother you then either?

Why is society becoming "OK" with letting wrong stuff slide?


I've also been a coach with the pressure to win in high school
My job has pressures to find loopholes to get things accomplished

I've always walked along the lines of using any loophole I can find to succeed.

The NFL has far greater pressures; they all do this in some sort of way; we are fooling ourselves if we think differently

To me this is no BFD

[MJZiggy]

They could. Do they? :!:

I can only speak for myself........and it appears that I can only reproduce chicks

Is there something we should know? I thought you weren't finding out...

[Bretsky]

They could. Do they? :!:

I can only speak for myself........and it appears that I can only reproduce chicks

Is there something we should know? I thought you weren't finding out...

Nope; I know nothing til February. Just figuring...ya know....

[MJZiggy]

Just remember I gave you the missing piece. If it's a girl, I did all I could. :lol:

[Deputy Nutz]

I believe 16-0 is very worthy of coach of the year. I also believe a coach that was caught cheating should also not be in the running for the award....I don't care if it had been MM....I'd feel the same.

Your position on this surprises me B. You were in sports all those years and I'm betting you would like to see your kids in sports. Will a cheating coach not bother you then either?

Why is society becoming "OK" with letting wrong stuff slide?


I've also been a coach with the pressure to win in high school
My job has pressures to find loopholes to get things accomplished

I've always walked along the lines of using any loophole I can find to succeed.

The NFL has far greater pressures; they all do this in some sort of way; we are fooling ourselves if we think differently

To me this is no BFD

It is amazing that most don't understand this concept.

[RashanGary]

I agree with Bretsky and Nutz. The guy deserves credit and if he pushed the limits of what was legal, who cares. He's competitive. He pushed it.

[GrnBay007]

I believe 16-0 is very worthy of coach of the year. I also believe a coach that was caught cheating should also not be in the running for the award....I don't care if it had been MM....I'd feel the same.

Your position on this surprises me B. You were in sports all those years and I'm betting you would like to see your kids in sports. Will a cheating coach not bother you then either?

Why is society becoming "OK" with letting wrong stuff slide?


I've also been a coach with the pressure to win in high school
My job has pressures to find loopholes to get things accomplished

I've always walked along the lines of using any loophole I can find to succeed.

The NFL has far greater pressures; they all do this in some sort of way; we are fooling ourselves if we think differently

To me this is no BFD

It is amazing that most don't understand this concept.

You get a call from your kid's principle at school to come in for a parent meeting. Find out your kid was cheating on a big semester test. Are you going to sympathize then because your kid was under so much "pressure" to get things accomplished and to succeed so the might get a scholarship?

You are married to the "perfect" woman....wonderful wife/mother. One day you walk in and find her cheating on you with the mailman (sorry Joe :wink: ). The next Sunday you go to Church and find out some little committee nominated her for wife/mother of the year. Hmmm....you going to be sympathetic because she probably only did the mailman because she was under so much pressure and stress to succeed with you in the bedroom.....you know what they say, practice makes perfect!!!

P
maybe time for us to agree to disagree.....but at least I got my rant in. :D :lol:

[Carolina_Packer]

We weren't discussing Randy Moss, we were discussing whether someone who was caught cheating at the beginning of the year should be bestowed with the highest honor he could get in the year that he was caught cheating in an attempt to get ahead (thereby increasing his odds of winning said award). So by your last post is your stance that the cheater should be rewarded?

Belichick did a whole lot more that wasn't cheating mj. He did a lot of solid coaching, preparing and managing of his team. Again !

The man who took the heat for cheating against the Jets in game one got caught and was penalized along with the organization mj. It's done!

How long does he have to pay for that lack of good judgement mj when he's paid the price already?

How long before you forgive him mj? See how I am then with TT? Some things just too tough for us simple mortals to find forgiveness for.

When it's now obvious all those who count in deciding he deserved the HONOR of Coach of the year must have to vote him through.

Now the part about Randy Moss and Bill Belichick will be written about and dicussed for decades mj, as the acquisition of Moss is simply put HUGE in making the Pat's obviously the choice to win the Super Bowl.

Randy Moss is the difference maker. We've witnessed that for most of his awesome career havn't we mj? Just a flat out GREAT wide receiver that can dominate a game like few WR's ever have been capable of.

So the cheater gets a free pass from you because he shrewdly signed the player you wanted us to have, but TT, who didn't cheat, but just failed to sign Moss gets heaps of scorn from you? Where is your scorn for the cheater? Success covers all sins? I don't understand the way you think.

[Bretsky]

who just edited my post instead of using a quote? I didn't write that stuff lol


Dammit I'm trying to get tech fancy and then f'cked that up

I'm trying to redo something now

[GrnBay007]

who just edited my post instead of using a quote? I didn't write that stuff lol


Dammit I'm trying to get tech fancy and then f'cked that up

I'm trying to redo something now

Hacker! :P

[Bretsky]

You get a call from your kid's principle at school to come in for a parent meeting. Find out your kid was cheating on a big semester test. Are you going to sympathize then because your kid was under so much "pressure" to get things accomplished and to succeed so the might get a scholarship?

Does everybody cheat this way ? Because in the multi million dollar profession of football everybody bends/breaks the rules to get an edge. That's the detail everybody chooses to ignore. Comparing it to a high school test doesn't hold for me. I'd be disappointed in my daughter but it'd be a learning experience.

You are married to the "perfect" woman....wonderful wife/mother. One day you walk in and find her cheating on you with the mailman (sorry Joe :wink: ). The next Sunday you go to Church and find out some little committee nominated her for wife/mother of the year. Hmmm....you going to be sympathetic because she probably only did the mailman because she was under so much pressure and stress to succeed with you in the bedroom.....you know what they say, practice makes perfect!!!

Made up example; your kids would have to nominate you for mother of the year.......which could be separate from being a great spouse........and your husband isn't nominating you for wife of the year if you are banging Joe Mailman.

And those who voted for BB know everybody bends the rules; listen to the rants among the ESPN guys. The voting committee and nation wouldn't know Joe Mailman was banging my wife. Maybe if they were in a 3sum we'd be giving Joe Mailman some awards
:P
maybe time for us to agree to disagree.....but at least I got my rant in. :D :lol:

You are right; we should agree to disagree.

[Deputy Nutz]

I believe 16-0 is very worthy of coach of the year. I also believe a coach that was caught cheating should also not be in the running for the award....I don't care if it had been MM....I'd feel the same.

Your position on this surprises me B. You were in sports all those years and I'm betting you would like to see your kids in sports. Will a cheating coach not bother you then either?

Why is society becoming "OK" with letting wrong stuff slide?


I've also been a coach with the pressure to win in high school
My job has pressures to find loopholes to get things accomplished

I've always walked along the lines of using any loophole I can find to succeed.

The NFL has far greater pressures; they all do this in some sort of way; we are fooling ourselves if we think differently

To me this is no BFD

It is amazing that most don't understand this concept.

You get a call from your kid's principle at school to come in for a parent meeting. Find out your kid was cheating on a big semester test. Are you going to sympathize then because your kid was under so much "pressure" to get things accomplished and to succeed so the might get a scholarship?

You are married to the "perfect" woman....wonderful wife/mother. One day you walk in and find her cheating on you with the mailman (sorry Joe :wink: ). The next Sunday you go to Church and find out some little committee nominated her for wife/mother of the year. Hmmm....you going to be sympathetic because she probably only did the mailman because she was under so much pressure and stress to succeed with you in the bedroom.....you know what they say, practice makes perfect!!!

P
maybe time for us to agree to disagree.....but at least I got my rant in. :D :lol:

If claim cheating is cheating regardless of circumstance and situation than your point is well, taken.

[MJZiggy]

You get a call from your kid's principle at school to come in for a parent meeting. Find out your kid was cheating on a big semester test. Are you going to sympathize then because your kid was under so much "pressure" to get things accomplished and to succeed so the might get a scholarship?

Does everybody cheat this way ? Because in the multi million dollar profession of football everybody bends/breaks the rules to get an edge. That's the detail everybody chooses to ignore. Comparing it to a high school test doesn't hold for me. I'd be disappointed in my daughter but it'd be a learning experience.

You are married to the "perfect" woman....wonderful wife/mother. One day you walk in and find her cheating on you with the mailman (sorry Joe :wink: ). The next Sunday you go to Church and find out some little committee nominated her for wife/mother of the year. Hmmm....you going to be sympathetic because she probably only did the mailman because she was under so much pressure and stress to succeed with you in the bedroom.....you know what they say, practice makes perfect!!!

Made up example; your kids would have to nominate you for mother of the year.......which could be separate from being a great spouse........and your husband isn't nominating you for wife of the year if you are banging Joe Mailman.

And those who voted for BB know everybody bends the rules; listen to the rants among the ESPN guys. The voting committee and nation wouldn't know Joe Mailman was banging my wife. Maybe if they were in a 3sum we'd be giving Joe Mailman some awards
:P
maybe time for us to agree to disagree.....but at least I got my rant in. :D :lol:

You are right; we should agree to disagree.

I can't wait til Joe reads this...so cheating's ok as long as you're a professional and other teams might be trying to cheat too? Whatever happened to just dominating the other team? And if they weren't getting any benefit out of the cheating why bother? And if they were able to dominate everyone else like they have this season why bother? Unless it did help them somehow? Unless their domination this season is in part because of what they learned watching the defensive signals from last season?

I don't know these answers I'm just tossing questions. Seems like a hell of a risk to take if you're getting such a marginal benefit from it. Either way it's cheating--regardless of the excuses or circumstances.

[Bretsky]

You get a call from your kid's principle at school to come in for a parent meeting. Find out your kid was cheating on a big semester test. Are you going to sympathize then because your kid was under so much "pressure" to get things accomplished and to succeed so the might get a scholarship?

Does everybody cheat this way ? Because in the multi million dollar profession of football everybody bends/breaks the rules to get an edge. That's the detail everybody chooses to ignore. Comparing it to a high school test doesn't hold for me. I'd be disappointed in my daughter but it'd be a learning experience.

You are married to the "perfect" woman....wonderful wife/mother. One day you walk in and find her cheating on you with the mailman (sorry Joe :wink: ). The next Sunday you go to Church and find out some little committee nominated her for wife/mother of the year. Hmmm....you going to be sympathetic because she probably only did the mailman because she was under so much pressure and stress to succeed with you in the bedroom.....you know what they say, practice makes perfect!!!

Made up example; your kids would have to nominate you for mother of the year.......which could be separate from being a great spouse........and your husband isn't nominating you for wife of the year if you are banging Joe Mailman.

And those who voted for BB know everybody bends the rules; listen to the rants among the ESPN guys. The voting committee and nation wouldn't know Joe Mailman was banging my wife. Maybe if they were in a 3sum we'd be giving Joe Mailman some awards
:P
maybe time for us to agree to disagree.....but at least I got my rant in. :D :lol:

You are right; we should agree to disagree.

I can't wait til Joe reads this...so cheating's ok as long as you're a professional and other teams might be trying to cheat too? Whatever happened to just dominating the other team? And if they weren't getting any benefit out of the cheating why bother? And if they were able to dominate everyone else like they have this season why bother? Unless it did help them somehow? Unless their domination this season is in part because of what they learned watching the defensive signals from last season?

I don't know these answers I'm just tossing questions. Seems like a hell of a risk to take if you're getting such a marginal benefit from it. Either way it's cheating--regardless of the excuses or circumstances.

I'd like to be the first to nominate Joe for

MAILMAN OF THE YEAR !!

[MJZiggy]

ROFL

[GrnBay007]

I'd like to be the first to nominate Joe for

MAILMAN OF THE YEAR !!

Poor Joe is over in RR trying to make sure the next President does a good job running our Country and here we are talking about him. :P :wink: :P

[Bretsky]

I'd like to be the first to nominate Joe for

MAILMAN OF THE YEAR !!

Poor Joe is over in RR trying to make sure the next President does a good job running our Country and here we are talking about him. :P :wink: :P


He's choosing to do the political BS over multiple chick grailism

[packinpatland]

MJZiggy says, and makes a good point:

"so cheating's ok as long as you're a professional and other teams might be trying to cheat too? Whatever happened to just dominating the other team? And if they weren't getting any benefit out of the cheating why bother? And if they were able to dominate everyone else like they have this season why bother? Unless it did help them somehow? Unless their domination this season is in part because of what they learned watching the defensive signals from last season? "

So.........why did they spy, I mean film, the Packers last season? They couldn't have known GB would be 13-3 this year and there'd be a possible match-up.
Why? Because it's what they do, they used those signals during the game...or at least until their cameraman got his behind carted out of the stadium. :lol:

It really is a shame. There's little doubt that the Patriots are a really, really good team. But for this 'breaking of a written rule' their Perfect Season' will always come under some degree scrutiny.

[Bretsky]

MJZiggy says, and makes a good point:

"so cheating's ok as long as you're a professional and other teams might be trying to cheat too? Whatever happened to just dominating the other team? And if they weren't getting any benefit out of the cheating why bother? And if they were able to dominate everyone else like they have this season why bother? Unless it did help them somehow? Unless their domination this season is in part because of what they learned watching the defensive signals from last season? "

So.........why did they spy, I mean film, the Packers last season? They couldn't have known GB would be 13-3 this year and there'd be a possible match-up.
Why? Because it's what they do, they used those signals during the game...or at least until their cameraman got his behind carted out of the stadium. :lol:


I've cheated before and it didn't help me one bit; this logic is FULL of ASSUMptions

It really is a shame. There's little doubt that the Patriots are a really, really good team. But for this 'breaking of a written rule' their Perfect Season' will always come under some degree scrutiny.

[Bretsky]

MJZiggy says, and makes a good point:

"so cheating's ok as long as you're a professional and other teams might be trying to cheat too? Whatever happened to just dominating the other team? And if they weren't getting any benefit out of the cheating why bother? And if they were able to dominate everyone else like they have this season why bother? Unless it did help them somehow? Unless their domination this season is in part because of what they learned watching the defensive signals from last season? "

So.........why did they spy, I mean film, the Packers last season? They couldn't have known GB would be 13-3 this year and there'd be a possible match-up.
Why? Because it's what they do, they used those signals during the game...or at least until their cameraman got his behind carted out of the stadium. :lol:


It really is a shame. There's little doubt that the Patriots are a really, really good team. But for this 'breaking of a written rule' their Perfect Season' will always come under some degree scrutiny.


I've cheated before and it didn't help me one bit; this logic is FULL of ASSUMptions

[MJZiggy]

Then I really don't understand...why did you cheat if it didn't help you any (and by the way, like I said in my post, I was just tossing questions)?

[esoxx]

Bill Belichick is a scum sucking cockroach. Still, it doesn't bother me that he won Coach of the Year. Just the fact that this raises the cheating scandal for conversation, and brings it back to life, is enough for me.
Actions have consequences. BB has lost some of his public standing in the eyes of many, not that he probably cares much.

[esoxx]

My older brother and I were having a friendly argument/discussion the other day about Belichick and Spygate, and he defended the position that there was too much made of the whole thing and Belichick was punished well enough. I strongly disagreed with him, and called him a Belichick apologist. We were watching the Giants/Patriots game and I was rooting for the Pats to lose because I didn't want to see the 'Cheat go undefeated. He said it was fun to watch them play, and while I can't disagree that they are a great team, it doesn't change the taste in my mouth over what someone would do against the rules to try and win. I think the NFL wanted everyone to think that they came hard after BB, but really the punishment was light. Robert Kraft probably paid his 500K fine out of some other business he has and he told his accountant to try and deduct it or write it off the books, and as for the losing the draft pick, yeah, that's tough, but thanks to the over-exuberant 49'ers thinking this was their year and giving away their 2008 first round pick (#7 as it's turning out), to get the Patriots 2007 #28 pick, the Patriots have an even better first round pick to more than make up for the loss, plus the Patriots smartly used the 4th rounder that the 49'ers also included in the draft day deal last year to give to Oakland for Randy Moss before TT could give his 4th to Al Davis. How did BB and NE suffer? It's ridiculous to insist that they suffered for what they did.

They should have had to forfeit that game against the Jets, which would have tarnished the perfect record, and BB should have been suspended 4 games and fined as well. Hell, Wade Wilson, the Dallas QB's coach was suspended at least that many games for taking HGH under a doctor's orders, not even enhancing anything, while BB openly goes against the rules, cheats, never shows contrition and gets a light punishment. Then the league destroys the evidence as quickly as it can and levies the punishment because they want the issue to go away very quickly and not hurt the league's image, and the image of one of the best teams. It stinks.

[/soapbox]

This is still my favorite thing after the scandal....

http://ickscorner.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/patsnewlogoia7custom1.jpg

I know I'm in the minority when I say this; I agree with your brother.

I would disagree with his brother.

This is one of the few things we disagree on. Part of it could be fogged by your manlove for the Patriots and part of it could be fogged by my manhate for the Patriots.

You know I've long favored a more harsh punishment, such as disbanding the team after the season with a dispersal draft.

Maybe that's a bit harsh.

I would settle for a public caning, 50 lashes.

[Bretsky]

Then I really don't understand...why did you cheat if it didn't help you any (and by the way, like I said in my post, I was just tossing questions)?


Maybe I cheated thinking it would give me an advantage and it didn't one d@m bit ?

[Bretsky]

My older brother and I were having a friendly argument/discussion the other day about Belichick and Spygate, and he defended the position that there was too much made of the whole thing and Belichick was punished well enough. I strongly disagreed with him, and called him a Belichick apologist. We were watching the Giants/Patriots game and I was rooting for the Pats to lose because I didn't want to see the 'Cheat go undefeated. He said it was fun to watch them play, and while I can't disagree that they are a great team, it doesn't change the taste in my mouth over what someone would do against the rules to try and win. I think the NFL wanted everyone to think that they came hard after BB, but really the punishment was light. Robert Kraft probably paid his 500K fine out of some other business he has and he told his accountant to try and deduct it or write it off the books, and as for the losing the draft pick, yeah, that's tough, but thanks to the over-exuberant 49'ers thinking this was their year and giving away their 2008 first round pick (#7 as it's turning out), to get the Patriots 2007 #28 pick, the Patriots have an even better first round pick to more than make up for the loss, plus the Patriots smartly used the 4th rounder that the 49'ers also included in the draft day deal last year to give to Oakland for Randy Moss before TT could give his 4th to Al Davis. How did BB and NE suffer? It's ridiculous to insist that they suffered for what they did.

They should have had to forfeit that game against the Jets, which would have tarnished the perfect record, and BB should have been suspended 4 games and fined as well. Hell, Wade Wilson, the Dallas QB's coach was suspended at least that many games for taking HGH under a doctor's orders, not even enhancing anything, while BB openly goes against the rules, cheats, never shows contrition and gets a light punishment. Then the league destroys the evidence as quickly as it can and levies the punishment because they want the issue to go away very quickly and not hurt the league's image, and the image of one of the best teams. It stinks.

[/soapbox]

This is still my favorite thing after the scandal....

http://ickscorner.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/patsnewlogoia7custom1.jpg

I know I'm in the minority when I say this; I agree with your brother.

I would disagree with his brother.

This is one of the few things we disagree on. Part of it could be fogged by your manlove for the Patriots and part of it could be fogged by my manhate for the Patriots.

You know I've long favored a more harsh punishment, such as disbanding the team after the season with a dispersal draft.

Maybe that's a bit harsh.

I would settle for a public caning, 50 lashes.


50 lashes :lol:

I'd be happier if they took the Pats 1st of the two 1st round picks so they don't get to add another great player.

I don't condone this one bit; but I don't buy that it gave NE much...if any...competitive advantage

[packinpatland]

MJZiggy says, and makes a good point:

"so cheating's ok as long as you're a professional and other teams might be trying to cheat too? Whatever happened to just dominating the other team? And if they weren't getting any benefit out of the cheating why bother? And if they were able to dominate everyone else like they have this season why bother? Unless it did help them somehow? Unless their domination this season is in part because of what they learned watching the defensive signals from last season? "

So.........why did they spy, I mean film, the Packers last season? They couldn't have known GB would be 13-3 this year and there'd be a possible match-up.
Why? Because it's what they do, they used those signals during the game...or at least until their cameraman got his behind carted out of the stadium. :lol:


It really is a shame. There's little doubt that the Patriots are a really, really good team. But for this 'breaking of a written rule' their Perfect Season' will always come under some degree scrutiny.


I've cheated before and it didn't help me one bit; this logic is FULL of ASSUMptions

Did one of their of the videographer/cameramen get removed from Lambeau or not? I'm not making this stuff up. It happened.

[MJZiggy]

Then I really don't understand...why did you cheat if it didn't help you any (and by the way, like I said in my post, I was just tossing questions)?


Maybe I cheated thinking it would give me an advantage and it didn't one d@m bit ?

Then you cheated and it didn't help you at all...did you do it again the following season?

[b bulldog]

He did get removed but as far as this scandal goes, they were caught in week one than they went 15-0 after that and for those of you who say that they could have used the terminology ect that they got before, all a team would have to do is change their calls ect to compensate for this advantage the Pats had. It is time for people to admit their jealousy and move on.

[MJZiggy]

Actually, I'm not jealous. Right now I'm curious as to B's logic and his thinking on this (because it seems to be in conflict with what I know of him so far).

I did not dislike the Pats this past offseason. Let me qualify that. Belichick's arrogance was starting to bug me a bit. Then I find out that the arrogant one has been cheating, and if that's not bad enough, he take the "FU attitude" because he got caught. He spreads it to his team (who no longer seem to have any fun playing the game) and begins acting like a total prick (and I don't use that word often) disrespecting his opponents, the media and the fans. That's why I don't like him.

Mike McCarthy may not have won EVERY game this season, but he's won enough and he ALWAYS shows respect for the people he deals with and if I'm not mistaken his team has a helluva lot of fun out there which makes them a helluva lot of fun to watch.

[Bretsky]

MJZiggy says, and makes a good point:

"so cheating's ok as long as you're a professional and other teams might be trying to cheat too? Whatever happened to just dominating the other team? And if they weren't getting any benefit out of the cheating why bother? And if they were able to dominate everyone else like they have this season why bother? Unless it did help them somehow? Unless their domination this season is in part because of what they learned watching the defensive signals from last season? "

So.........why did they spy, I mean film, the Packers last season? They couldn't have known GB would be 13-3 this year and there'd be a possible match-up.
Why? Because it's what they do, they used those signals during the game...or at least until their cameraman got his behind carted out of the stadium. :lol:


It really is a shame. There's little doubt that the Patriots are a really, really good team. But for this 'breaking of a written rule' their Perfect Season' will always come under some degree scrutiny.


I've cheated before and it didn't help me one bit; this logic is FULL of ASSUMptions

Did one of their of the videographer/cameramen get removed from Lambeau or not? I'm not making this stuff up. It happened.


Now are you talking about when the Pats guy got removed or the Jets guy got removed ? Why again does everybody ignore the Jets guy ...oh right...because they suck

[Bretsky]

Then I really don't understand...why did you cheat if it didn't help you any (and by the way, like I said in my post, I was just tossing questions)?


Maybe I cheated thinking it would give me an advantage and it didn't one d@m bit ?

Then you cheated and it didn't help you at all...did you do it again the following season?


YUP; Spelling tests in grade school. I'd copy words from people who didn't spell as well as I did. Stupid me !

[Bretsky]

Actually, I'm not jealous. Right now I'm curious as to B's logic and his thinking on this (because it seems to be in conflict with what I know of him so far).

I did not dislike the Pats this past offseason. Let me qualify that. Belichick's arrogance was starting to bug me a bit. Then I find out that the arrogant one has been cheating, and if that's not bad enough, he take the "FU attitude" because he got caught. He spreads it to his team (who no longer seem to have any fun playing the game) and begins acting like a total prick (and I don't use that word often) disrespecting his opponents, the media and the fans. That's why I don't like him.

Mike McCarthy may not have won EVERY game this season, but he's won enough and he ALWAYS shows respect for the people he deals with and if I'm not mistaken his team has a helluva lot of fun out there which makes them a helluva lot of fun to watch.

Bellickek has always acted like a prick as a coach; that didn't start anytime this year. His arrogance has been around for a long time now. No different this year from last and that's why many coaches around the league do not like the guy. To argue Spygate made BB any worse or better is just using an excuse to show more hate.

Have you seen the Pats interviews ? I'm confused as to how you can even make the point his players do not like the game. They are just focused in winning; other than that they seem to enjoy things as much as anybody.....and in the locker room they also seem as unified as anybody

[Scott Campbell]

As usual Scott:

I win !!



Perhaps its just some of that "false pride" you keep preaching about.

:shock: