Big Unit says it is up to Favre

[CaliforniaCheez]

http://www.620wtmj.com/sports/billmichaels

Bill Michaels at WTMJ and part of the Packer Radio networks wrote the following. Check the whole article at the link above.

The Green Bay Packers venture into the post-season with arguably one of the best quarterbacks ever. However, the post-season, post 1997, hasn’t been too kind to the sure first ballot hall of famer.

Since the 1997 season, Brett Favre’s numbers don’t necessarily ensure victories;

WINS – 2

LOSSES - 5

PASS ATTEMPTS - 249

PASS COMPLETIONS - 151

PASSING YARDAGE - 1,794

AVG. PASSING YARDS – 256.2

TOUCHDOWNS - 11

INTERCEPTIONS - 16

COMPLETION PERCENTAGE - 60.6

300+ YARD PASSING GAMES - 1

QUARTERBACK RATING - 70.59

The 2 wins that Brett and the Packers have had in the post-season came when Brett threw for 1 INT or less and had a quarterback rating over 100.0.

(01 vs. San Francisco 112.6 and 03 vs. Seattle 102.9)

Why do I bring this up? Because for all of the details that we discuss and analyze, for all the X-factor stuff that we like to drudge up it really comes down to the play of the quarterback. If Brett’s on his mark, managing the game, taking what the defense gives him, keeping the “D” off the field with solid drives and positive field position…the Packers will win. If Brett struggles, the Packers will struggle and simply will not survive.


http://images.620wtmj.com/images/FavreCarry.jpg

When we say that the season rides on the shoulders of number 4, we’re not kidding. There are other determining factors but these are, for the most part, minor in comparison to the play of the Green Bay Packers signal caller.

Of the playoff years since the 97 Super Bowl, Brett comes into the 2007 post-season with his highest quarterback rating (95.7) and a 66.5 completion percentage (5.1% higher than his career average).

The Detroit game was a necessary tune-up for what the NFC Divisional game will offer. Brett go his rhythm back and the offense clicked on all cylinders. A solid way for the Packers to end their regular season.

With a rested Brett Favre, his legs feeling light, who knows how far this Packers team can go.

************************************************** ***********

We've seen this before and it is obvious and not new.

Brett must do well and have a great game.

I think Brett's greatest problem is self imposed pressure.

[Pacopete4]

i call bullshit with a lot of this assessment.. mainly because we flat out were not that good since the super bowl days... there were just teams better than us and thats how it works...

that being said, our team is the top in the NFL in my opinion so yes, its favre's time to shine

[BallHawk]

I think Brett's greatest problem is self imposed pressure.

Spot on. When he came to Dallas in November he was out there, chucking bombs, trying to prove that he could win in Dallas.

As long as McCarthy can get him in the right mental state going into a playoff game Favre should be fine. Favre has got a great RB and a great WR corps. If he can realize that and not put it all on his shoulders we'll be fine. Favre has a greater chance of losing the game by himself than winning the game by himself.

[RashanGary]

It's partially McCarthy's responsibility, but a big part of it is on Favre himself. If he just goes out and plays his game (the way he has almost all year), the Packers have as good of chance as any team other than NE.

He's a great player. He just has to be himself, nothing more. I hope he doesn't force it, but that DAllas game was really blown out of proportion. There were a couple off throws, some horrible pass protection and one bad decision. Dallas also made a couple great plays. He really wasn't forcing it, the bounces just didn't go our way. They have to take deep shots. I think the backlash on the forcing and game plan was 100% revisionist history. Deep throws are part of the Packers game this year. They just have to hit more than 0/5 of them.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Ball Hawk,

I've seen it. In his mind he has few chances left and he puts pressure on himself. He does it when he goes against Holmgren.

He really needs to be calm. How many of his press conferences has he stated he thought the team was too loose?? Most of them.

I want to see a calm smiling Brett enjoying each playoff game.

[BallHawk]

He does it when he goes against Holmgren.

And that's one of the reasons why I sure as hell do not want to play Seattle next week.

[Pacopete4]

He does it when he goes against Holmgren.

And that's one of the reasons why I sure as hell do not want to play Seattle next week.



one playoff appearance for favre against the walrus and one win...

26 of 38 for 319 yards, 1 td, 0 int 68% completion % and a 102 qb rating



i dont see your point

[packinpatland]

'Big Unit'

For a moment there I thought it was going to be about Randy Johnson!

[gbgary]

When he came to Dallas in November he was out there, chucking bombs, trying to prove that he could win in Dallas.

As long as McCarthy can get him in the right mental state going into a playoff game Favre should be fine. Favre has got a great RB and a great WR corps. If he can realize that and not put it all on his shoulders we'll be fine. Favre has a greater chance of losing the game by himself than winning the game by himself.

he was "chucking bombs" cuz that was MM's game plan. if his game plan had been that mentioned in the above article we'd have been much better off. other than this i agree with what you said. as i've said at least 50 times recently it's up to MM to coach Brett, and call plays that will allow him, to protect the ball, keep the ball moving down field, eat up the clock and score points.

[Kiwon]

When he came to Dallas in November he was out there, chucking bombs, trying to prove that he could win in Dallas.

As long as McCarthy can get him in the right mental state going into a playoff game Favre should be fine. Favre has got a great RB and a great WR corps. If he can realize that and not put it all on his shoulders we'll be fine. Favre has a greater chance of losing the game by himself than winning the game by himself.

he was "chucking bombs" cuz that was MM's game plan. if his game plan had been that mentioned in the above article we'd have been much better off. other than this i agree with what you said. as i've said at least 50 times recently it's up to MM to coach Brett, and call plays that will allow him, to protect the ball, keep the ball moving down field, eat up the clock and score points.

Funny, I seem to recall Bill Michaels was putting some blame on MM's play calling for the Packers struggles at the halftime of the Cowboys game.

They have got themselves into trouble on a few 3rd and 1 downs when they've thrown a bomb rather than to merely look to pick up a first down.

Farve and MM have worked well together all year when they have stayed within the system. However, the times when they have overreached have been few, but costly with stalled drives and INTS.

I rather have the Farve of 2007-08 in Texas stadium than the Farve of ten years ago. He has had a great year playing within the offense that MM has set up and the play-calling of MM has generally been good. They won't let things get out of hand just because its the playoffs.

[b bulldog]

MM had brett in a trance and was making him throw into triple coverage :lol: :oops: :oops:

[Deputy Nutz]

MM had brett in a trance and was making him throw into triple coverage :lol: :oops: :oops:

And you don't see the genius in that?

I still giggle when Favre makes a mistake and folk right away point the finger at the play calling, or receivers, it is ignorance for the most part because they don't go back and actually look at the play.

[pbmax]

You might have a point in some years, like the Sherman's first playoff run when the wheels came off and half the O Line was in the training room.

But there were other years, 4th and 26 come to mind, where we had the better team on the field and lost. He wasn't entirely at fault, but made the situation worse.

And bulldog is right, the Packers game plan picking on Dallas' secondary wasn't unique, that secondary is the weak spot of their defense. The Packer game plan wasn't much different to what other teams did to the Cowboys. That pass D has been torched this year. If you think our safeties have trouble covering, watch the Dallas guys in their base D trying to cover the pass.

Unfortunately, Colledge decided to crater in his pass blocking that day as well.

But neither the game plan nor Colledge made Favre commit to his first read after he saw double coverage deep. There was a time that I thought Favre's concern for his health and the slowing of his legs made him commit to throws he should have pulled down. With a better receiving corp this year than any since the 90's (maybe Walker's breakout year as well, when Bubba Franks was still breathing) those problems seemed to be behind him.

But Washington, Dallas and the Bears got him to revert back to a Randall Cunningham like first read and the rest be damned approach. That is what he needs to avoid. McGinn mentioned Favre's near photographic memory of pass plays from years gone by, and Favre mentioned this as well in an interview, that sometimes, due to a memory of how a play has worked before, he will forget the progression and go right to a receiver based on what happened previously. This phenomenon has been feast or famine for him this year.

Favre needs to forget that past and take what the present offers. We won several early games this year with that approach, despite a woeful running attack.


i call bullshit with a lot of this assessment.. mainly because we flat out were not that good since the super bowl days... there were just teams better than us and thats how it works...

that being said, our team is the top in the NFL in my opinion so yes, its favre's time to shine

[MJZiggy]

I still giggle when Favre makes a mistake and folk right away point the finger at the play calling, or receivers, it is ignorance for the most part because they don't go back and actually look at the play.

Yes they do--they have no choice because every time Brett makes a mistake, they replay it 47 times immediately and every chance they get for the rest of the game.... :?

[motife]

In big games, Favre looks like death warmed over before the game starts. Grim, unsmiling, even a little uncertain looking.

If I was McCarthy, I'd rein Favre in. But tell Bob Sanders to go nuts.

I agree with Greg Bedard :


My prediction? The Packers absolutely roll in their first game. Won't even be close. Packers hang tough in Dallas, but, sorry to say it, Favre makes a big mistake that costs the Pack the game. There's just something about him and that field. I have full faith in this team going back into Texas Stadium and winning -- except for Favre.

If Aaron Rodgers were healthy, I think the Packers would be better off with him playing within the system, and adding his ability to pick up first downs with his feet.

Favre gets in his St. Louis Rams, 6 interception mode, in the really big games.

[pbmax]

Much of a potential Dallas game turns on the pass blocking. If they can do it without max protect, if Colledge, Wells and Spitz can actually block, then we'll be in it to the end.

Same for the other side, if we pressure Romo, the game will be there for the taking. If we don't, its going to be a shootout and then I don't like our chances. I think we can run on the Cowboys. They are a fast, pursuit defense that is smaller than most and like Grant's touchdown, will be vulnerable to the cutback.

That said, I think there is a good chance Sanders runs blitzes early and has good success since it will break a tendency. Second half will be dicier as Dallas O will adjust and Sanders will need to go to Plan C.

[Pacopete4]

there is only so much a QB can do.. thats the bottom line


when we've had good teams, favre has come thru and come thru way, way more than he's failed

and even when hes had just OK teams that most QBs would finish under .500 he's carried them on their backs at least to an 8-8 record and and almost playoff births...

most of you people dont really know how good you have it as packer fans.. man...

[Merlin]

If Aaron Rodgers were healthy, I think the Packers would be better off with him playing within the system, and adding his ability to pick up first downs with his feet.

Favre gets in his St. Louis Rams, 6 interception mode, in the really big games.

I'm glad you aren't the coach of the Green Bay Packers this post-season. We had one "big" game by NFL standards against Dallas. Yes, Favre didn't look all that hot but he also never had the chance to redeem himself that game. Our defensive play calling was horrible as well. Sure, Aaron Rodgers played okay, didn't make any mistakes. But he also suffers from the "first read" syndrome, watches his first read until a) they get open (seldom), b) he scrambles (more often, Vick syndrome), or c) he gets sacked. Rodgers threw to one receiver in that game that wasn't the primary read otherwise he zeroed in on the #1 the whole time.

Favre can't pick up first downs with his feet? You don't think that little 21 yard naked bootleg against Detroit won't have teams thinking he might run now?

Anyone who would even consider starting Rodgers over Favre really needs to examine their knowledge of the game.

[motife]

That said, I think there is a good chance Sanders runs blitzes early and has good success since it will break a tendency. Second half will be dicier as Dallas O will adjust and Sanders will need to go to Plan C.

Bedard, who covered the Dolphins, said after the Dallas game that the reason Miami never did anything when Jim Bates was DC, is when there was a really big game, Bates went conservative, didn't blitz, played coverage. He said he saw the same thing with Sanders at Dallas.

btw, Jim Bates apparently will be fired after one year in Denver.

[pbmax]

Sanders has tinkered with the formula and has brought linebacker pressure and the occasional safety. He did some of this against Dallas in the second half when it was clear Romo was writing love sonnets to Jessica back there. If we get there, I think he opens with it. We need a KGB sighting this post-season.




That said, I think there is a good chance Sanders runs blitzes early and has good success since it will break a tendency. Second half will be dicier as Dallas O will adjust and Sanders will need to go to Plan C.

Bedard, who covered the Dolphins, said after the Dallas game that the reason Miami never did anything when Jim Bates was DC, is when there was a really big game, Bates went conservative, didn't blitz, played coverage. He said he saw the same thing with Sanders at Dallas.

btw, Jim Bates apparently will be fired after one year in Denver.

[motife]

Anyone who would even consider starting Rodgers over Favre really needs to examine their knowledge of the game.

It's my "knowledge" (actually fear) of Favre that worries me. He's a different QB against the really good teams when it's one and done.

[HarveyWallbangers]

If Aaron Rodgers were healthy, I think the Packers would be better off with him playing within the system, and adding his ability to pick up first downs with his feet.

Favre gets in his St. Louis Rams, 6 interception mode, in the really big games.

Favre has thrown for 0 or 1 interception in 14 of his 20 career playoff games. He's thrown 2 interceptions in 4 games. He's thrown more than 2 in two games. Unfortunately, they just happen to be two of more recent games--St. Louis and Minnesota. The St. Louis game was a complete mismatch, and he threw 4 of his 6 inteceptions in the last 20 minutes after St. Louis had taken a 28 point lead. The Minnesota game was a horrible game, but let's not forget that Ferguson was lost for the year on the Darius hit and Javon Walker went out early with an injury. Then, Minnesota put 14 points on the board in the first 5 minutes--before he even threw an incomplete pass. I'm not excusing that one though. He should have played better, but conditions weren't ideal in those two games.

[pbmax]

Pete, I have rooted for many teams without Favre as QB as know exactly how good he is compared to the rest of the league.

But he has a responsibility like everyone else. You don't get a lifetime pass after so many years, or so many yards or wins that says; "OK, no need to think anymore" or "Forget the play call progression, throw it to the guy who was open on your presnap read".

I am not hoping Favre goes from mediocre to brilliant. Or from Hall of Fame to Best of All-Time. I want him to do the job. If he does, his favorite throws and receivers will be open after the D adjusts. Without a dominating D, we can't give up a short field and extra offensive possessions to good teams.

In fact, I just scared myself because this is exactly my thought before every Packer game during the Ed Donatell/Bob Slowik era. :shock:


there is only so much a QB can do.. thats the bottom line


when we've had good teams, favre has come thru and come thru way, way more than he's failed

and even when hes had just OK teams that most QBs would finish under .500 he's carried them on their backs at least to an 8-8 record and and almost playoff births...

most of you people dont really know how good you have it as packer fans.. man...

[pbmax]

Its exactly the last several playoff games that is the cause of worry. Without a great D to save you, interceptions hurt more.

Favre's two first half interceptions against St. Louis both resulted in touchdowns. One was a TD on the return and the other was a TD after an INT return to the four yard line.

At the half, you could argue that the Packers D had outplayed the Rams O. With the offense handing them 14 points, they were down 24-10.

Here is the funny thing about INTs. The first might have been all Bill Schroeder's fault. Favre threw right to a Rams player when Schroeder ran his route to a different spot. I never saw a definitive piece on who blew this. And that is why teammates (in this case WRs) make a huge difference to the QB.

This year, he has a better corp. Mistakes like these two throws shouldn't happen. He also doesn't have Ahman fumbling in the first half this year.



If Aaron Rodgers were healthy, I think the Packers would be better off with him playing within the system, and adding his ability to pick up first downs with his feet.

Favre gets in his St. Louis Rams, 6 interception mode, in the really big games.

Favre has thrown for 0 or 1 interception in 14 of his 20 career playoff games. He's thrown 2 interceptions in 4 games. He's thrown more than 2 in two games. Unfortunately, they just happen to be two of more recent games--St. Louis and Minnesota. The St. Louis game was a complete mismatch, and he threw 4 of his 6 inteceptions in the last 20 minutes after St. Louis had taken a 28 point lead. The Minnesota game was a horrible game, but let's not forget that Ferguson was lost for the year on the Darius hit and Javon Walker went out early with an injury. Then, Minnesota put 14 points on the board in the first 5 minutes--before he even threw an incomplete pass. I'm not excusing that one though. He should have played better, but conditions weren't ideal in those two games.

[gbgary]

MM had brett in a trance and was making him throw into triple coverage...


I still giggle when Favre makes a mistake and folk right away point the finger at the play calling...


yes.....Brett threw those balls...but when MM comes out after the game and admits they wanted to be real aggressive, with the play calling, you can see where Brett's mindset was. Brett's willingness to do what he's told, at his own peril, got him hurt and the team in a jam. when passing, the weakest links in the dallas defense are the safties and linebackers. they should have been the focus...not the corners. dallas blitzed and Brett had no protection. no protection because of the plays MM was calling. MM changed things when Rodgers came into the game and you know what happened. MM's game plan has to have the kinds of plays that will allow Brett/the Packers to succeed against high pressure defenses.

[Pacopete4]

# The Packers have posted a 152-88 record (.633) since NFL free agency began in 1993, the best record in the NFL. New England is second at 150-90. Philadelphia is the next-best NFC team behind the Packers (seventh) at 132-107-1 (.552). The Packers have had just one losing season (2005) in the past 16 years. They have won 10 or more games nine times.




I guess none of those were big games? haha.. the fact is, sometimes ur just not the better team and the fact is.. other than 1996, 97, and maybe in 98... we didnt have the team to win a superbowl... and thats just how the cookie crumbles so get off favres case


Pete, I have rooted for many teams without Favre as QB as know exactly how good he is compared to the rest of the league.

But he has a responsibility like everyone else. You don't get a lifetime pass after so many years, or so many yards or wins that says; "OK, no need to think anymore" or "Forget the play call progression, throw it to the guy who was open on your presnap read".


if we went off the fact favre couldnt win a big game.. we woulda found someone else after he went 3 straight seasons losing to dallas in the playoffs... its a team game fellas

[fan4life]

Favre has thrown for 0 or 1 interception in 14 of his 20 career playoff games. He's thrown 2 interceptions in 4 games. He's thrown more than 2 in two games. Unfortunately, they just happen to be two of more recent games--St. Louis and Minnesota. The St. Louis game was a complete mismatch, and he threw 4 of his 6 inteceptions in the last 20 minutes after St. Louis had taken a 28 point lead. The Minnesota game was a horrible game, but let's not forget that Ferguson was lost for the year on the Darius hit and Javon Walker went out early with an injury. Then, Minnesota put 14 points on the board in the first 5 minutes--before he even threw an incomplete pass. I'm not excusing that one though. He should have played better, but conditions weren't ideal in those two games. Excellent recap, Harvey. But your analysis makes much too much sense for the simpletons who want to blame the QB when the team fails to run the ball, protect the passer, run sharp correct routes that gain YAC, and perhaps most importantly, defend their goal ... and the QB tries, but fails, to throw them to a come-from-behind win.

That will never change.

[RashanGary]

yes.....Brett threw those balls...but when MM comes out after the game and admits they wanted to be real aggressive, with the play calling, you can see where Brett's mindset was. Brett's willingness to do what he's told, at his own peril, got him hurt and the team in a jam. when passing, the weakest links in the dallas defense are the safties and linebackers. they should have been the focus...not the corners. dallas blitzed and Brett had no protection. no protection because of the plays MM was calling. MM changed things when Rodgers came into the game and you know what happened. MM's game plan has to have the kinds of plays that will allow Brett/the Packers to succeed against high pressure defenses.

Poor Brett, just does what he's told, can't make a decsions based on what's going on around him. Poor Brett. More than any other QB, he's been the victim of being told to do stupid things. He does have the interception record so he has to have had the worst coaches of any of the long term QB's, right? It's never Brett. It's always somebody else.

Sad. Maybe Brett should start making decisions based on how the play unfolds like Brady.

[b bulldog]

:wow: Nick :lol: :bclap:

[RashanGary]

Brett's a great player. One of the all time greats. He has one glaring weakness, and there is nothing wrong with that. Many players, all they have is glaring weaknesses. Favre makes bad decisions. It's who he is. It's gotten better this year. I hope it stays better through the playoffs.

[b bulldog]

Agree but I still state that Brett is one of the dumbest/greatest QB's of all-time.

[gbgary]

yes.....Brett threw those balls...but when MM comes out after the game and admits they wanted to be real aggressive, with the play calling, you can see where Brett's mindset was. Brett's willingness to do what he's told, at his own peril, got him hurt and the team in a jam. when passing, the weakest links in the dallas defense are the safties and linebackers. they should have been the focus...not the corners. dallas blitzed and Brett had no protection. no protection because of the plays MM was calling. MM changed things when Rodgers came into the game and you know what happened. MM's game plan has to have the kinds of plays that will allow Brett/the Packers to succeed against high pressure defenses.

Poor Brett, just does what he's told, can't make a decsions based on what's going on around him. Poor Brett. More than any other QB, he's been the victim of being told to do stupid things. He does have the interception record so he has to have had the worst coaches of any of the long term QB's, right? It's never Brett. It's always somebody else.

Sad. Maybe Brett should start making decisions based on how the play unfolds like Brady.

i guess i'm not making myself clear. brett is his own worst enemy sometimes. we all agree that he makes some idiotic passes and decisions. what i'm trying to say is, because of how he is, don't even call a play where throwing deep into triple coverage is even an option. keep some protection in for him. dink and dunk. control the ball.

[motife]

Agree but I still state that Brett is one of the dumbest/greatest QB's of all-time.

For the dumbest, he'll have to compete with Terry Bradshaw.

[motife]

How about that pass in the Philadephia playoff game. The long blooper when the Packers were in good shape to tie or win the game with plenty of time left on their last drive?

Tom Brady like?

[fan4life]

How about that pass in the Philadephia playoff game. The long blooper when the Packers were in good shape to tie or win the game with plenty of time left on their last drive?

Tom Brady like? You mean like the interception Brady threw into the end zone with a couple of minutes left on the clock in the SB against the Panthers?

Or the one that ended his team's bid to represent the AFC in the Superbowl last year?

[b bulldog]

I love Brett but he simply does make some real boneheaded throws like that Philly moonshot but you take the good with the bad with Brett. This is one of the main reasons why he'll never be the best QB of alltime because of his bad decision making. Terry Bradshaw and Brett are a like in many ways. Both guys would be great to sit down and have a beer with and both guys may be a.... when it comes to upstairs.
My favorite saying from Brett Favre says it all, Brett was asked what games were his most memorable and he answered that his most memorable games are the ones he remembers most :lol: They play that line on TMJ a lot. Brett probably is the most exciting QB I've ever seen, you never know what your going to get in some big games.

[b bulldog]

No, I think he was talking about the one he threw up for grabs in Philly, or maybe the ones he was throwing up for grabs in Dallas this year, or maybe the 6 he threw against the Rams, or maybe the 4 or so he threw against the Vikings, or maybe it was the bunch he threw against the Falcons in the playoffs, or maybe it was the ..................
I love to compare Brady's meltdowns to brett's but that would be hilarious. If Brett had the Wr's Brady was throwing to last year when he threw that bad pass in Indy, everyone in here would be saying that he had no weapons so what was he supposed to do. :wink: With that being said, that was a bad throw and that was one of the reasons why the Pats lost the game.

[b bulldog]

Forgot to mention the bears game from this season, sorry :lol:

[b bulldog]

Lets all just hope that Brett plays well in the playoffs and he may get a chance to play Brady and the Pats. I think the Colts and Jags have an excellent shot at knocking the Pats out.

[The Leaper]

I think the Colts and Jags have an excellent shot at knocking the Pats out.

I honestly believe the Patriots won't make the Super Bowl. The pressure on them is going to be enormous, and the Jags and Colts are two very good football teams that can easily beat the Pats if they aren't on top of their game. Going through both of those teams, even with HFA, would not be easy.

[fan4life]

I love to compare Brady's meltdowns to brett's but that would be hilarious. If Brett had the Wr's Brady was throwing to last year when he threw that bad pass in Indy, everyone in here would be saying that he had no weapons so what was he supposed to do. :wink: With that being said, that was a bad throw and that was one of the reasons why the Pats lost the game. Ahhhh, you see, now you've caught yourself in your own (il)logic.

The Pats lost that game because Belicheck's defense couldn't stop Addai and Brady's WRs couldn't shed coverage... giving him few options but to throw to guys who were covered.... Game over.

Did Belicheck haul Brady's ass through the fire and chastise him for making a bad decision? We'll never know. What we do know is that he went out and bought the best receivers money could buy, including (drumroll, please..) Randy Moss, the best WR ever to grace a football field, IMHO. He also brought in a great, run-stopping LB.

You see, Belicheck understands the game. He understands that when your team is overmatched and you ask your QB to win the game throwing to scrubs, you don't have much of a chance.

Sure, Favre does have brain-farts on occasion. But go ahead and believe that he is a "dumb" quarterback and that Brady would have helped Green Bay win more games given the same talent, defenses and coaches Favre has had. Now that would be hilarious discussion.

[HarveyWallbangers]

How about that pass in the Philadephia playoff game. The long blooper when the Packers were in good shape to tie or win the game with plenty of time left on their last drive?

Tom Brady like?

Let's see: the Packers could have iced the game on 4th and 1 with the best rushing attack in football against one of the worst run defenses.

Let's see: the Packers defense gave up a game tying FG in the final seconds on a drive they started at their own 20 and were able to convert the infamous 4th and 26.

Let's see: Favre had two TDs, no fumbles, and no interceptions in that game until that throw.

Yeah, let's blame Favre.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Brady is a great QB, but if you are going to play this game, shouldn't it be pointed out that he's been average or bad in 3 of his last 4 playoff games. He was horrible in a loss in the 2005 playoffs against Denver. Last year, he was horrible in a win vs. San Diego but was saved when a San Diego corner fumbled the ball after what should have been the game clinching interception. He was pretty ordinary against the Colts in the AFC Championship game last year, and couldn't lead the Pats back at the end.

Now, to be fair, his team just didn't have the supporting cast to get it done. His defense let him down, and he didn't have a Troy Brown, Deion Branch, etc. This year, Bill went out and got him Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and Donte Stallworth.

[Deputy Nutz]

How about that pass in the Philadephia playoff game. The long blooper when the Packers were in good shape to tie or win the game with plenty of time left on their last drive?

Tom Brady like?

Let's see: the Packers could have iced the game on 4th and 1 with the best rushing attack in football against one of the worst run defenses.

Let's see: the Packers defense gave up a game tying FG in the final seconds on a drive they started at their own 20 and were able to convert the infamous 4th and 26.

Let's see: Favre had two TDs, no fumbles, and no interceptions in that game until that throw.

Yeah, let's blame Favre.



Harv, that was a team loss all around the board, coaching staff, offensive line, defense, everyone had blame, some more than most. Favre's throw in overtime was unbelievably ridiculous. There was no reason for it, it was mind bottling. Worst throw of his career. Unexplainable really, even the excuse that he thought the receiver picked up the blitz and ran a fly route, but there were two Eagles camped out under the ball, even if Walker ran the right route he would have had to fight them off for at best an incompletion.

[The Leaper]

"All I know is before he (Favre) showed up, the Packers couldn't spell playoffs"

I think this quote about sums it up.

If Favre is such a ridiculously poor decision maker, how in the hell does Green Bay have the best record in the NFL since his arrival?

If Favre is such a ridiculously poor decision maker, how have his teams won at least 10 games more than half of the time during his tenure in Green Bay?

Has he made some bad throws? Hell yeah.

Has he had some bad games? Hell yeah.

So have Manning, Brady, Montana, Marino or any other NFL QB.

Favre is a winner, and he would simply not be the QB he is without giving him the chance to make plays.

I'll bet you a million dollars that Tom Brady could never have thrown a 4th down TD lightning bolt after getting knocked out of the game with a concussion a few plays before...or lead a 4th quarter comeback against Cincinnati in his first legitimate playing time in the NFL...or play through any of the myriad of injuries Favre has sustained in his career.

Does that make Favre a better QB? No.

However, it makes him Brett Favre...someone who will stand as a legend in the game long after fans have glossed over the accomplishments of boring robots like Manning or Brady. It takes more than stats to accumulate the respect and admiration of all NFL fans...something few NFL players ever hope to achieve. Favre is one of those rare players. I wouldn't trade him for anyone else...even if he tosses a wacky throw here or there.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Harv, that was a team loss all around the board, coaching staff, offensive line, defense, everyone had blame, some more than most. Favre's throw in overtime was unbelievably ridiculous. There was no reason for it, it was mind bottling. Worst throw of his career. Unexplainable really, even the excuse that he thought the receiver picked up the blitz and ran a fly route, but there were two Eagles camped out under the ball, even if Walker ran the right route he would have had to fight them off for at best an incompletion.

It was a bad throw at the worst time. I'd blame that throw as the third biggest reason we lost that game, but he had played well enough to win that game up to that point. We had given the Eagles so many chances that I just knew something like that would give them the game. The worst thing about the throw is that it was returned so far. It was heaved down the field, and you'd hope the guy wouldn't return it 40 yards and put them in FG range. For me, it's tough to blame the QB on that day. He had one turnover and kept the team in the game against a solid Eagles squad in Philly. Great teams find a way to win that game, and then the QBs one mistake is hidden. Of course, it hurts that the one mistake was the last big mistake.

The week before he went 26 of 38 for 318 with 1 TD and 0 interceptions or fumbles, so he played well for the equivalent of two full games, and he's remembered for the bad throw late.

When you've put your team in position to win so many teams over 16 years, you are going to have good games and bad games. He's had great playoff games: Detroit in 1993, Atlanta and San Francisco in 1995, San Francisco in 2001, Seattle in 2003, pretty much all of the games in the Super Bowl years. Hell, if the refs had called Jerry Rice's obvious fumble correctly against San Fran in 1998, Favre would have been remembered for leading the team for a great game winning TD. The bad: Atlanta, Minnesota, St. Louis, the throw against Philadelphia.

[MJZiggy]

The week before he went 26 of 38 for 318 with 1 TD and 0 interceptions or fumbles, so he played well for the equivalent of two full games, and he's remembered for the bad throw late.

I had forgotten all about it...

[b bulldog]

Actually brady had the Pats driving to take the lead and he threw the bad pass which was picked. The Pats D was bad but Brady puit the final dagger in the Pats with the bad pass he threw. This is the same as I see the Eagles game. We had numerous opprotunities to win the game but that moonshot by Favre was the dagger that sealed it. You can have a QB play a perfect game, than he throws the game changing pic and that will be all you remember about that QB in that game. This was basicly what Eli Manning did against the Pats last weekend.

[b bulldog]

In all honesty, no one play really ever loses you a game. You could pick the film apart ,to show all of your deficiencies, which in the end, cost you the game.

[b bulldog]

Most of his bad games were his recent playoff games. He also laid a huge egg in dallas this season. I hope he doesn't do this again in the playoffs this year.

[Zool]

In all honesty, no one play really ever loses you a game. You could pick the film apart ,to show all of your deficiencies, which in the end, cost you the game.

Tell that to Neil O'Donnell

[woodbuck27]

OK I've read enough. :)

We have to look at this as another chance for the Packers and Favre to get to the show. I agree that he didn't act as he had all season when he got to Dallas. Favre definitely needs a head man to motivate him towords staying on the cool. To be patient.

If he has a really bad game in either of the next two

I think it will take more than just MM to get it there. Favrer has to not get all hyped up or pumped. If he gets in the right zone I see us going to the Super Bowl. The NFC is really not looking that great at the present.

Heck 'the Redskins' could very well advance out of the 6th seed. I would rather we play Seattle than Washington next weekend. It will come down for the best part of it to Brett Favre and execution but let's not forget the importance of the running game (that's up a few points - as stock) and our defense. We also have to get soild ST play as well.

Which team has the best basics is where it's at. MM and crew have worked all off season and to now to ensure we are prepared. We sem to be getting healthier as well and the return of Bubba Franks is encouraging.

MM has worked all off season till now to get just where we are and I really see us advancing to the NFC Championship.

Why not us? It will be a load on Favre but he has the skills and ability. He also has a youngish and hopefully properly spirited Pack ALL with him.

[b bulldog]

:bclap: Like the post

[woodbuck27]

:bclap: Like the post

Favre wants it so here it is!! He definitely has the experience and knowledge of what it takes and what he has not to do to give us our best chance.

He won't get a better one to way things look to me between him and our GM.

It's wide open for us the way Romo is looking of late and the high ankle sprain to TO will take 3-4 weeks to get him back 100% b bulldog. Seattle hasn't got it's running game in gear and they are not consistent or a great offensive force.

The Giants or the BUCS? Nope !

I seriously consider the Redskins as tough as anyone remaining in the NFC with Joe Gibbs as HC. That's a BIG plus for them plus a running game and Portis if he's close to 100%.

I watched the game bet. the Redskins and the Vikings a couple of weeks ago and Gibbs flat out - outcoached Brad ' Man of too much gum chewing ' Childress. Man I'd hate to have to play for that man. He's a wreck. :)

Hey Rastak what are y'all going to do with that fella? He's all jacked up about three times more than Favre has ever been. When I was watching the two sidelines I couldn't believe I placed any confidence in the Vikings with Joe Gibbs as HC on the other side.

Favre is hungry.So is Gibbs.

[b bulldog]

If we are unable to get out of the NFC, I hope the Skins make it to the SB.

[woodbuck27]

If we are unable to get out of the NFC, I hope the Skins make it to the SB.

Yup. For Joe Gibbs for sure. A nice story there.

[Deputy Nutz]

Harv, that was a team loss all around the board, coaching staff, offensive line, defense, everyone had blame, some more than most. Favre's throw in overtime was unbelievably ridiculous. There was no reason for it, it was mind bottling. Worst throw of his career. Unexplainable really, even the excuse that he thought the receiver picked up the blitz and ran a fly route, but there were two Eagles camped out under the ball, even if Walker ran the right route he would have had to fight them off for at best an incompletion.

It was a bad throw at the worst time. I'd blame that throw as the third biggest reason we lost that game, but he had played well enough to win that game up to that point. We had given the Eagles so many chances that I just knew something like that would give them the game. The worst thing about the throw is that it was returned so far. It was heaved down the field, and you'd hope the guy wouldn't return it 40 yards and put them in FG range. For me, it's tough to blame the QB on that day. He had one turnover and kept the team in the game against a solid Eagles squad in Philly. Great teams find a way to win that game, and then the QBs one mistake is hidden. Of course, it hurts that the one mistake was the last big mistake.

The week before he went 26 of 38 for 318 with 1 TD and 0 interceptions or fumbles, so he played well for the equivalent of two full games, and he's remembered for the bad throw late.

When you've put your team in position to win so many teams over 16 years, you are going to have good games and bad games. He's had great playoff games: Detroit in 1993, Atlanta and San Francisco in 1995, San Francisco in 2001, Seattle in 2003, pretty much all of the games in the Super Bowl years. Hell, if the refs had called Jerry Rice's obvious fumble correctly against San Fran in 1998, Favre would have been remembered for leading the team for a great game winning TD. The bad: Atlanta, Minnesota, St. Louis, the throw against Philadelphia.

I totally agree, lets not forget Bidwell kicking the ball into the endzone from 35 yards out.

[motife]

wow, great (detailed) memories.

I'm very appreciative of Favre, believe me.

Favre has observed himself that he can be a Jekyll and Hyde. In fact, I defy anyone to name NFL QB's who have dug themselves out of as many holes of their own making as Favre has, and won the game.

You can get the play by play of any game at the NFL website.

Here's the Philly game :

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=26648&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2003&week=POST19

[RashanGary]

Favre is a GREAT competitior
Favre has a GREAT arm
Favre is an accurate passer
Favre practices and plays full speed
Favre is a GREAT leader
Favre is an intinctive football player
Favre has great escapablity
Favre can throw as good as anyone from unusual platforms


There are probably about 50 other compliments to Favres game that people could give.


Favre makes a lot of really stupid decisions that cost us big games.

There, he has flaw too. It doesn't mean he's not good, but him being good doesn't mean he doesn't have a flaw either. Leaper made a post saying Favre is great, so we shouldn't criticize the thing he does so poorly. Favre has to play better than he has in past playoffs. It's that simple.

[The Leaper]

Favre makes a lot of really stupid decisions that cost us big games.

JH, you go overboard. Yes, he has made a few poor decisions. He certainly has not made a lot of really stupid decisions.

He has won more postseason games because of his good decisions than he has lost them with poor decisions. We just forget how great he was under Holmgren because of his more recent failures that are fresher in our memory. Favre needs a coach that can reign him in and keep him focused. Sherman let him run wild, and we all know what happened as a result.

[The Leaper]

Leaper made a post saying Favre is great, so we shouldn't criticize the thing he does so poorly. Favre has to play better than he has in past playoffs. It's that simple.

Where did I say we shouldn't criticize him? I merely pointed out that Favre is cut from the cloth of legends...and we should count ourselves privileged to have him to cheer for, regardless of his few warts.

That doesn't mean we ignore the warts...merely that we should recognize how fortunate we are to have a legendary player of Favre's stature on our team...win or lose. He's an NFL treasure.

I have no problem saying he has to play better than he has in recent postseasons. I'm sure he will admit as much. However, by all accounts, Favre is working harder than ever...and I'm guessing he won't be the one the costs us due to poor decisions this season.

[b bulldog]

I agree that Sherman was part of the problem but when you have a vet QB, you expect more out of him than a rookie, good coach or not.

[gbgary]

Favre is a GREAT competitior
Favre has a GREAT arm
Favre is an accurate passer
Favre practices and plays full speed
Favre is a GREAT leader
Favre is an intinctive football player
Favre has great escapablity
Favre can throw as good as anyone from unusual platforms


There are probably about 50 other compliments to Favres game that people could give.


Favre makes a lot of really stupid decisions that cost us big games.

There, he has flaw too. It doesn't mean he's not good, but him being good doesn't mean he doesn't have a flaw either. Leaper made a post saying Favre is great, so we shouldn't criticize the thing he does so poorly. Favre has to play better than he has in past playoffs. It's that simple.

i agree with ALL the above and will add this...MM can help Brett play better by reducing his exposure to the blitzes, that are sure to come with empty back-field formations, by running less of it; by staying with the run to make teams respect play-action; by not calling desperation-type plays unless we really ARE desperate; and by demanding Brett protect the ball and convincing him that taking a sack is better than watching a linebacker run an interception into the end zone. the gift-giving season is over. :D

[RashanGary]

gbgary, MM seems like a fantastic playcaller to me. It's acctually a GOOD thing to take deep shots. It's a bad thing to take them even when they are double or triple covered. That's why we have a QB to make the final decision of where to throw the ball. You saying MM needs to not call desperation plays is assuming MM calls plays that are hail mary's. He does not. One guy runs deep. The rest run short routes or intermediate. Favre makes the final decision to toss it.

Favres INT's are not on MM. They are on Favre (and he's had relatively few of them this year). He's playing great.

As far as protection goes, they can and will play better than that. It was a bad game by Cliffy and a knicked up Tausch.

[RashanGary]

Leaper, would you call the interception record an indicator that he makes a lot of stupid decisions?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Leaper, would you call the interception record an indicator that he makes a lot of stupid decisions?

I call it an indication that he's thrown more passes than anybody in history.

Of course, he makes some dumb throws. Just like the guy he is most comparable to--John Elway. Most of the time they had to or their team would lose. Not always, but get over it! Other QBs didn't have the toughness or leadership or strong arm or accuracy or escapability. He's nowhere near "as dumb" as you make him out to be. His interception rate is not historically high. His TD rate is. His completion % is well above average. He plays. He wins.

Nick, young buddy, you'll learn soon enough just how good Brett Favre is/was.

[RashanGary]

I think he's good, but I like to have a little realism with my fanism.

I'm sure I'll be the old guy telling my grand kids about the legendary Brett Favre and how he'd play on a broken fibula and smashed ribs :) :)


He's good Harvey. Real good. No, he's great. I just hate when people make excuses when he makes a mistake. I wouldn't want excuses to be made for me. People make mistakes. Favre is people, right? I'm not here to tear down Favre. I just hate hearing all of the excuses. It gets tough to listen to. Favre really is good enough that he doesn't need to have an excuse when he fall short of perfection. It's OK.

[esoxx]

It's always great to get in a good round of Favre bashing before the playoffs start. Good for the circulation.

[pbmax]

Career Pass Interception % Leaders
stats from: pro-football-reference.com
QBs listed whose entire careers were played under post 1978 passing rules (ie. offensive lineman allowed to extend arms in pass blocking, five yard chuck zone, etc.)


Rnk Player (age), + HOFer Int% Years Teams
1 Neil O'Donnell 2.10% 1991 2003 4TM
Donovan McNabb (31) 2.10% 1999 2007 phi
3 Mark Brunell 2.30% 1994 2006 3TM
Jeff Garcia (37) 2.30% 1999 2007 5TM
5 Tom Brady (30) 2.40% 2000 2007 nwe
6 Kent Graham 2.50% 1992 2001 4TM
Steve Bono 2.50% 1985 1999 7TM
Rich Gannon 2.50% 1987 2004 4TM
9 Joe Montana+ 2.60% 1979 1994 2TM
Steve Young+ 2.60% 1985 1999 2TM
Bernie Kosar 2.60% 1985 1996 3TM
Steve McNair (34) 2.60% 1995 2007 2TM
Philip Rivers (26) 2.60% 2004 2007 sdg
14 Matt Hasselbeck (32) 2.70% 1999 2007 2TM
Ken O'Brien 2.70% 1984 1993 2TM
Drew Brees (28) 2.70% 2001 2007 2TM
Byron Leftwich (27) 2.70% 2003 2007 2TM
18 Brad Johnson (39) 2.80% 1994 2007 4TM
Jeff George 2.80% 1990 2001 5TM
Peyton Manning (31) 2.80% 1998 2007 clt
21 Neil Lomax 2.90% 1981 1988 crd
Trent Green (37) 2.90% 1997 2007 4TM
Chad Pennington (31) 2.90% 2000 2007 nyj
24 Jim Miller 3.00% 1995 2002 2TM
Dan Marino+ 3.00% 1983 1999 mia
Jeff Hostetler 3.00% 1985 1997 3TM
Jim Harbaugh 3.00% 1987 2000 4TM
Troy Aikman+ 3.00% 1989 2000 dal
Charlie Batch (33) 3.00% 1998 2007 2TM
Michael Vick 3.00% 2001 2006 atl
Marc Bulger (30) 3.00% 2002 2007 ram
32 Jeff Blake 3.10% 1992 2005 7TM
John Elway+ 3.10% 1983 1998 den
Randall Cunningham 3.10% 1985 2001 4TM
John Friesz 3.10% 1990 2000 4TM
Drew Bledsoe 3.10% 1993 2006 3TM
Tony Banks 3.10% 1996 2005 4TM
Aaron Brooks 3.10% 2000 2006 2TM
Carson Palmer (28) 3.10% 2004 2007 cin
40 Doug Flutie 3.20% 1986 2005 4TM
Gus Frerotte (36) 3.20% 1994 2007 7TM
Jake Delhomme (32) 3.20% 1999 2007 2TM
Daunte Culpepper (30) 3.20% 1999 2007 3TM
David Carr (28) 3.20% 2002 2007 2TM
45 Tony Eason 3.30% 1983 1990 2TM
Steve Dils 3.30% 1979 1988 3TM
Stan Humphries 3.30% 1989 1997 2TM
Brett Favre (38) 3.30% 1991 2007 2TM
Elvis Grbac 3.30% 1994 2001 3TM
Kerry Collins (35) 3.30% 1995 2007 5TM
Patrick Ramsey (28) 3.30% 2002 2007 3TM
Joey Harrington (29) 3.30% 2002 2007 3TM
54 Kyle Boller (26) 3.40% 2003 2007 rav
Phil Simms 3.40% 1979 1993 nyg
Warren Moon+ 3.40% 1984 2000 4TM
Erik Kramer 3.40% 1987 1999 4TM
Steve Beuerlein 3.40% 1988 2003 6TM
Mark Rypien 3.40% 1988 2001 5TM
Kurt Warner (36) 3.40% 1998 2007 3TM
61 Scott Mitchell 3.50% 1991 2001 4TM
Bill Kenney 3.50% 1980 1988 kan
Jim McMahon 3.50% 1982 1996 6TM
Boomer Esiason 3.50% 1984 1997 3TM
Bubby Brister 3.50% 1986 2000 5TM
Don Majkowski 3.50% 1987 1996 3TM
Chris Miller 3.50% 1987 1999 3TM
Craig Erickson 3.50% 1992 1997 3TM
Dave M. Brown 3.50% 1992 2001 2TM
Brian Griese (32) 3.50% 1998 2007 4TM
Eli Manning (26) 3.50% 2004 2007 nyg
72 Jim Everett 3.60% 1986 1997 3TM
Chris Chandler 3.60% 1988 2004 7TM
Kordell Stewart 3.60% 1995 2005 3TM
Danny Kanell 3.60% 1996 2003 3TM
77 Jon Kitna (35) 3.70% 1997 2007 3TM
Doug Williams 3.70% 1978 1989 2TM
Dave Krieg 3.70% 1980 1998 6TM
Jim Kelly+ 3.70% 1986 1996 buf
Billy Joe Tolliver 3.70% 1989 1999 5TM
Ty Detmer 3.70% 1993 2003 5TM
Rick Mirer 3.70% 1993 2003 5TM
Jake Plummer 3.70% 1997 2006 2TM
Rex Grossman (27) 3.70% 2003 2007 chi
87 Ben Roethlisberger (25) 3.80% 2004 2007 pit
Steve Fuller 3.80% 1979 1986 2TM
Jay Schroeder 3.80% 1985 1994 4TM
Hugh Millen 3.80% 1987 1995 4TM
Steve Walsh 3.80% 1989 1999 6TM
Jay Fiedler 3.80% 1995 2005 5TM
Josh McCown (28) 3.80% 2002 2007 3TM
95 Quincy Carter 3.90% 2001 2004 2TM
Frank Reich 3.90% 1985 1998 4TM
Rodney Peete 3.90% 1989 2004 6TM
Tim Couch 3.90% 1999 2003 cle
Steve Pelluer 4.00% 1984 1990 2TM
Bobby Hebert 4.00% 1985 1996 2TM
Vinny Testaverde (44) 4.00% 1987 2007 7TM
106 Steve DeBerg 4.10% 1978 1998 6TM
Trent Dilfer (35) 4.10% 1994 2007 5TM
Wade Wilson 4.20% 1981 1998 5TM
Mike Pagel 4.20% 1982 1993 3TM
Jack Trudeau 4.20% 1986 1995 3TM
116 Jeff Kemp 4.40% 1981 1991 4TM
Eric Hipple 4.50% 1980 1989 det
Gary Hogeboom 4.50% 1980 1989 3TM
Mike Tomczak 4.50% 1985 1999 4TM
Tommy Maddox 4.50% 1992 2005 4TM
David Woodley 4.80% 1980 1985 2TM
Marc Wilson 4.90% 1980 1990 2TM
Mark Malone 4.90% 1980 1989 3TM
142 Randy Wright 5.10% 1984 1988 gnb
145 Scott Brunner 5.20% 1980 1985 2TM
Dave Wilson 5.30% 1981 1988 nor

Int % defined as: Percentage of times intercepted when attempting to pass (minimum 14 attempts per scheduled game to qualify as leader)
= Interceptions/(Passes Attempted)

[pbmax]

Names that stick out for me

Ahead of Favre:
Montana, Young, McNabb, Brady, Manning, Gannon, O'Donnell (a stiff maybe, but still a Super Bowl QB), McNair, Johnson, Hasselback, Marino, Hostetler, Aikman, Elway, Cunningham (!?), Delhomme

Behind Favre:
Simms, Moon, Kelly, Rypien, Warner, McMahon, Esiason, Williams, Roethlisberger, Woodley (see O'Donnell),

[HarveyWallbangers]

That's why the Packers know the kind of rare opportunity they have in front of them, especially for a veteran like Favre.

"I think three years ago we were saying, 'He's done.' And I was saying the same thing, and here we are," Favre said.

"Stranger things have happened. We may go 14-2 next year, so who knows?"

That's from Bedard's article on the JSO today. Is there any doubt that he'll back slinging more TDs and interceptions next year?
:D

His article is pretty fair.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=703801


in those seven playoff appearances since the Packers' last Super Bowl, Favre was intercepted 16 times (six against the St. Louis Rams in 2001), threw 11 touchdown passes and had a passer rating of 70.8.

From 1993-'97, Favre owned an 8-4 post-season record, threw 23 touchdown passes against 10 interceptions, and his rating was 92.0.

Actually, it was a 9-4 postseason record. 2-5 record since.

There's no doubt he's had his struggles of late--especially against an overwhelming St. Louis team, vs. Atlanta, and vs. Minnesota when they fell behind 14-0 early. I think it is important (probably in a small way) for his legacy to go out with good playoff performances. He finally has a team that can compete with the best in the conference again, and a lot will fall on him. Let's not pretend he hasn't had some GREAT playoff moments also. Like his career, he's had more good than bad. I'll take best record over a 16 year period, 1 losing season, 273+ consecutive starts, 9 Pro Bowls, 3 MVPs, 8 division titles, 11 playoff appearances, and every conceivable record in the books though. All with one certain Hall of Fame teammate (Reggie White) and perhaps another one (LeRoy Butler). None on offense--although Sterling Sharpe was a Hall of Fame caliber talent that he played with for three years, and Ahman Green was damn good. Especially since I had watched the Pack from 1980 through 1991--witnessing two winning seasons and one playoff berth with the likes of Lynn Dickey (solid, but immobile), Majik (one or two good seasons), Randy Wright, Rich Campbell, Anthony Dilweg quarterbacking the team to futility.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Names that stick out for me

Ahead of Favre:
Montana, Young, McNabb, Brady, Manning, Gannon, O'Donnell (a stiff maybe, but still a Super Bowl QB), McNair, Johnson, Hasselback, Marino, Hostetler, Aikman, Elway, Cunningham (!?), Delhomme

Behind Favre:
Simms, Moon, Kelly, Rypien, Warner, McMahon, Esiason, Williams, Roethlisberger, Woodley (see O'Donnell),

Can you post # of wins, TD rate, completion %, MVPs, Pro Bowls, winning seasons, playoff appearances, consecutive starts also?

[pbmax]

TD Rate coming up. You're on your own for the rest. Takes too much time to format from tabs or commas to spaces. :lol:

[pbmax]

Career Passing Touchdown % Leaders
stats from: pro-football-reference.com
QBs listed whose entire careers were played under post 1978 passing rules (ie. offensive lineman allowed to extend arms in pass blocking, five yard chuck zone, etc.)


Rnk Player (age), + HOF TD% Year Done Teams
1 Ben Roethlisberger (25) 5.80% 2004 2007 pit
2 Peyton Manning (31) 5.70% 1998 2007 clt
3 Steve Young+ 5.60% 1985 1999 2TM
4 Tom Brady (30) 5.40% 2000 2007 nwe
5 Joe Montana+ 5.10% 1979 1994 2TM
Kurt Warner (36) 5.10% 1998 2007 3TM
Carson Palmer (28) 5.10% 2004 2007 cin
8 Dan Marino+ 5.00% 1983 1999 mia
Jim Kelly+ 5.00% 1986 1996 buf
Brett Favre (38) 5.00% 1991 2007 2TM
Jake Delhomme (32) 5.00% 1999 2007 2TM
12 Dave Krieg 4.90% 1980 1998 6TM
Daunte Culpepper (30) 4.90% 1999 2007 3TM
14 Randall Cunningham 4.80% 1985 2001 4TM
15 Boomer Esiason 4.70% 1984 1997 3TM
Donovan McNabb (31) 4.60% 1999 2007 phi
Philip Rivers (26) 4.60% 2004 2007 sdg
18 Matt Hasselbeck (32) 4.50% 1999 2007 2TM
Jeff Garcia (37) 4.50% 1999 2007 5TM
20 Steve Beuerlein 4.40% 1988 2003 6TM
Mark Rypien 4.40% 1988 2001 5TM
Trent Green (37) 4.40% 1997 2007 4TM
Brian Griese (32) 4.40% 1998 2007 4TM
Drew Brees (28) 4.40% 2001 2007 2TM
25 Phil Simms 4.30% 1979 1993 nyg
Bill Kenney .4.30% 1980 1988 kan
Neil Lomax 4.30% 1981 1988 crd
Jeff Kemp .4.30% 1981 1991 4TM
Warren Moon+ 4.30% 1984 2000 4TM
Bobby Hebert 4.30% 1985 1996 2TM
Frank Reich .4.30% 1985 1998 4TM
Rich Gannon .4.30% 1987 2004 4TM
Chris Miller 4.30% 1987 1999 3TM
Chad Pennington (31) 4.30% 2000 2007 nyj
Marc Bulger (30) 4.30% 2002 2007 ram
Eli Manning (26) 4.30% 2004 2007 nyg
37 Chris Chandler 4.20% 1988 2004 7TM
Aaron Brooks 4.20% 2000 2006 2TM
Marc Wilson 4.10% 1980 1990 2TM
Wade Wilson 4.10% 1981 1998 5TM
41 John Elway+ 4.10% 1983 1998 den
Jay Schroeder 4.10% 1985 1994 4TM
Jim Everett 4.10% 1986 1997 3TM
Vinny Testaverde (44) 4.10% 1987 2007 7TM
Jeff Blake 4.10% 1992 2005 7TM
Michael Vick 4.10% 2001 2006 atl
47 Doug Williams 4.00% 1978 1989 2TM
Jeff Hostetler 4.00% 1985 1997 3TM
Doug Flutie 4.00% 1986 2005 4TM
Erik Kramer 4.00% 1987 1999 4TM
Scott Mitchell 4.00% 1991 2001 4TM
Tommy Maddox 4.00% 1992 2005 4TM
Elvis Grbac 4.00% 1994 2001 3TM
Mark Brunell 4.00% 1994 2006 3TM
Jay Fiedler 4.00% 1995 2005 5TM
56 Steve DeBerg 3.90% 1978 1998 6TM
Jim McMahon 3.90% 1982 1996 6TM
Tony Eason 3.90% 1983 1990 2TM
Jeff George 3.90% 1990 2001 5TM
Brad Johnson (39) 3.90% 1994 2007 4TM
Charlie Batch (33) 3.90% 1998 2007 2TM
62 Mike Tomczak 3.80% 1985 1999 4TM
Craig Erickson 3.80% 1992 1997 3TM
Steve McNair (34) 3.80% 1995 2007 2TM
Patrick Ramsey (28) 3.80% 2002 2007 3TM
66 Gary Hogeboom 3.70% 1980 1989 3TM
David Woodley 3.70% 1980 1985 2TM
Bernie Kosar 3.70% 1985 1996 3TM
Bubby Brister 3.70% 1986 2000 5TM
Neil O'Donnell 3.70% 1991 2003 4TM
Drew Bledsoe 3.70% 1993 2006 3TM
Jake Plummer 3.70% 1997 2006 2TM
Jon Kitna (35) 3.70% 1997 2007 3TM
Tim Couch 3.70% 1999 2003 cle
Byron Leftwich (27) 3.70% 2003 2007 2TM
76 Mark Malone 3.60% 1980 1989 3TM
Eric Hipple 3.60% 1980 1989 det
Ken O'Brien 3.60% 1984 1993 2TM
Steve Bono 3.60% 1985 1999 7TM
Ty Detmer 3.60% 1993 2003 5TM
Gus Frerotte (36) 3.60% 1994 2007 7TM
Trent Dilfer (35) 3.60% 1994 2007 5TM
83 Dave Wilson 3.50% 1981 1988 nor
Don Majkowski 3.50% 1987 1996 3TM
Stan Humphries 3.50% 1989 1997 2TM
Troy Aikman+ 3.50% 1989 2000 dal
Billy Joe Tolliver 3.50% 1989 1999 5TM
88 Jim Miller 3.40% 1995 2002 2TM
Rex Grossman (27) 3.40% 2003 2007 chi
Kyle Boller (26) 3.40% 2003 2007 rav
91 Jim Harbaugh 3.30% 1987 2000 4TM
John Friesz 3.30% 1990 2000 4TM
Kerry Collins (35) 3.30% 1995 2007 5TM
Kordell Stewart 3.30% 1995 2005 3TM
Tony Banks 3.30% 1996 2005 4TM
Quincy Carter 3.30% 2001 2004 2TM
Josh McCown (28) 3.30% 2002 2007 3TM
98 Mike Pagel 3.20% 1982 1993 3TM
Rodney Peete 3.20% 1989 2004 6TM
Danny Kanell 3.20% 1996 2003 3TM
101 Joey Harrington (29) 3.10% 2002 2007 3TM
102 Steve Pelluer 3.00% 1984 1990 2TM
Steve Walsh 3.00% 1989 1999 6TM
104 Kent Graham 2.90% 1992 2001 4TM
105 Steve Dils 2.80% 1979 1988 3TM
Scott Brunner 2.80% 1980 1985 2TM
Randy Wright 2.80% 1984 1988 gnb
David Carr (28) 2.80% 2002 2007 2TM
109 Dave M. Brown 2.70% 1992 2001 2TM
110 Steve Fuller 2.60% 1979 1986 2TM
Jack Trudeau 2.60% 1986 1995 3TM
112 Hugh Millen 2.40% 1987 1995 4TM
Rick Mirer 2.40% 1993 2003 5TM


TD Pct Defined As Percentage of Touchdowns Thrown when Attempting to Pass (Minimum 14 attempts per scheduled game to qualify as leader)
= Passing Touchdowns/(Passess Attempted)

[HarveyWallbangers]

[code]Rnk Player (age), + HOF TD% Year Done Teams
1 Ben Roethlisberger (25) 5.80% 2004 2007 pit
2 Peyton Manning (31) 5.70% 1998 2007 clt
3 Steve Young+ 5.60% 1985 1999 2TM
4 Tom Brady (30) 5.40% 2000 2007 nwe
5 Joe Montana+ 5.10% 1979 1994 2TM
Kurt Warner (36) 5.10% 1998 2007 3TM
Carson Palmer (28) 5.10% 2004 2007 cin

The guys ahead of him either had Jerry Rice to throw to (Montana and Young), are young yet so they haven't hit the stage in their career where their stats decrease (Manning, Big Ben, Brady, and Palmer), or are Kurt Warner (who has had a handful of good years throwing to Isaac Bruce/Torry Holt and now Larry Fitzgerald/Anquan Boldin).

Have to respect Tom Brady. Outside of this year, he hasn't had a Hall of Fame cast of WRs, but is up there. Of course, he hasn't hit the downside of his career, and this year had to give him a HUGE bump. Big Ben will fall off. Manning has had Reggie Wayne/Marvin Harrison. Young had Rice/Terrell Owens. Montana had Rice/Dwight Clark/John Taylor/Roger Craig. Palmer has Chad Johnson/T.J.

[Pacopete4]

the great thing is.. he's played long enough where stats dont lie... hes the best, hes the most "athletic passer" we'l ever see in the game.. and when i say that.. its not mike vick but its not drew bledsoe.. he can move, and throw from any postion you want.. and guess what.... EVEN AT THE AGE OF 38!!! aha.. i'd love to see brady or manning do that.. hell even montana.. we all know marino tried.. just to extend those records.. but how'd he look...



packer fans are babied.. and badly... its as simple as that..


we'l look for something better.. but we'l never see it, even my grandkids, grandkids wont see it

[b bulldog]

Stats are wonderful, I love stats as anyone here can attest to but the most important stat of all in this wonderful game is Super Bowl wins, ask Marino.

[RashanGary]

The most profound thing about that stat is that all of the multiple SB winners are in the list that throws few INT's and Favre is down with the guys who either have none and a few with one.

Brett's playing better this year though. We have a better chance even thought that stat was pretty damning for our SB winning odds.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The most profound thing about that stat is that all of the multiple SB winners are in the list that throws few INT's and Favre is down with the guys who either have none and a few with one.

Ummm.... aren't there only four guys on the list with multiple Super Bowls or am I missing something?

The first, Joe Montana, is the guy I consider the greatest QB of all-time.

The second, Tom Brady, is on his way--but hasn't hit the downside of his career yet.

John Elway and Troy Aikman are close to where Favre is. There isn't a whole lot of difference between 3.0, 3.1, and 3.2--especially when considering the numbers were rounded. I think you're reading what you want into it. I consider Elway one of the top 4 QBs of all-time. Aikman had a great team and was a great game manager. All but Elway had great teams around him. Elway won when Terrell Davis came onto the scene. They didn't have to take as many chances--just like Favre this year, his Super Bowl years, and maybe 2003-2004.

[pbmax]

If I was more ambitious on this Saturday, I would do the differential between TDs and INTs percentages and take a look. None of it is perfect, INTs can happen anywhere and cost you on average 46 yards of field position (there have been studies done, you'll have to trust me, I don't have a link) and POSSIBLY a score.

TD throws are much more a function of field position and produce points, which is the ultimate goal of any offense. So there may not be a direct, inverse relationship.

And this goes back to the original point of the thread. With a decent defense (that may be the surprise of the season, that the D has been less successful than the O, who'd have thunk that?), improving protection and receivers he trusts, clearly Favre has been less likely to heave ho.

With better receivers, he has had fewer drops and thus they have, in a small but direct way, prevented Bill Shroeder interceptions by being where they are supposed to be and holding on, mostly. I am looking at you James Jones.

He has been behind late in few games and those instances have not been blowouts except 2nd Bears. This has all combined to put Favre in his best position.

What I expect/hope from him in the playoffs is to trust the team and coaches into the 4th quarter. Play the field position game if you have to. If its not working by then, heave away.

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080105/PKR01/801050399/1989


The postseason has seen Favre sometimes at a finest, but also a couple of times at his worst, though it's no coincidence he was at his best when the Packers were their most talented. Two of the best games of his career, for instance, were at San Francisco in the playoffs, in the divisional round in the 1995 season and in the NFC championship game in the 1997 season. He had a passer rating of 107.4 points and completed 73.3 percent of his passes in the Packers' upset win over the 49ers' in the 1995 playoffs, and his passer rating was 98.1 points in leading the Packers to a win in the NFC title game in the '97 playoffs.

In the 1995 and 1996 playoffs he played some of his best football. In 2005, when the Packers lost in the NFC championship at Dallas, his passer rating was 106.9 points (eight touchdown passes, two interceptions) in three games. In 1996, when the Packers won the Super Bowl, his passer rating was even better, 107.5 points (five touchdown passes, one interception). In the Packers' Super Bowl loss to Denver, he had three touchdown passes, one interception and a 91.0 passer rating.

His lowest playoff moments were in the 2001 season, when he threw six interceptions in a blowout loss at St. Louis, and the 2003 season in the infamous fourth-and-26 loss at Philadelphia, where he played a good game but heaved an inexplicable interception in overtime that set up the Eagles' game-winning field goal.

"I'm disappointed in some of those games," Favre said, "I'm very disappointed in the Denver game. I thought I played pretty good but not good enough. There's been games, not only in playoffs but in the regular season, where I didn't play as good and we did win. I'd like to think we would have or should have won more playoff games, which in turn lead to a chance at the Super Bowl at least. But I don't know if I'd have done anything much different. I'd have played and prepared the same way. You just have a tendency to remember those (losses) because of what they represent."

[RashanGary]

MM seems to have brought him back to the MVP days. If his playoff games are the same way, we'll be in the Superbowl.

[FritzDontBlitz]

Leaper, would you call the interception record an indicator that he makes a lot of stupid decisions?



People constantly bitch about Brett Favre's interceptions No one ever makes note of the fact that of all the quarterbacks on that list, Favre is the only one who started every game over every season and pretty much took every snap in the 17 years he's been in the league. His interception rate of 3.3% puts him in the middle of the pack in career stats, yet he is still the most accurate passer of any quarterback with over 6000 attempts with a 61.1% completion rate. The interception record is indicative that Brett Favre throws more passes than anyone else in the history of the NFL. Yes, his style of play has certainly contributed to his total of interceptions, but it has also led him to throw more TD passes than any other quarterback in NFL history as well.

I have never subscribed to the concept that the success or failure of the Packers rests solely on Brett Favre's shoulders. Do you really believe Michael Jordan won 6 NBA titles all by himself? Football, like basketball, is a team sport - especially come playoff time - and if you are putting all your hopes solely in your QB's hands then you are saying the rest of your team basically sucks. Its an insult to your running back, receivers, your defense, your special teams and entire coaching staff. Mike Holmgren and Ron Wolf never subscribed to this theory, that's why they built a strong defense and made sure there were enough playmakers to surround Brett Favre on offense. Mike Sherman bought into this misconception and therefore as GM allowed defense and special teams to go south by never drafting or trading for a good enough supporting cast to win it all with Brett at the helm. What you were left with under Sherman was a good regular season record but a mediocre playoff team that constantly put Brett in catchup mode where they had to forsake the run and pass on nearly every down late in games. The results of those games have been mentioned ad nauseum, and Brett deserves some of the blame but certainly not all. In summary: Holmgren put Brett in a position to win; Sherman set him up to fail, and he often failed miserably.

Now, for the first time since Holmgren left, the Packers are a complete team again. TT has tried to fortify the defense and special teams while hiring Mike McCarthy, an offensive minded head coach that is experienced in designing and running a true West Coast Offense. The results so far have been nothing short of spectacular: Brett has been functioning beautifully within a well-designed offensive scheme with a defense that has been great at times but shaky of late due to injuries at key positions down the middle. Special teams have greatly improved as well. The 2007 Green Bay Packers are a more complete team than they ever were since Holmgren left and their 13-3 record is indicative of that.

People always complain about Brett's mindset against certain opponents or during playoff games as of late. "He's never won in Dallas." "He can't win in domes." "He's never won in Kansas City." "He's never beaten Denver in Denver when Bob Denver is singing a duet with John Denver while the police Denver boot his car." Etc. etc. etc. Maybe the big eunuch and other writers should try dealing with the present and not constantly harping on the past so much. The 2007 Packers are as explosive and exciting as any other team in the NFC. Green Bay has hung tough through some games everyone expected them to lose: at Denver, at Kansas City the following week, in domes, on their way to a 13-3 record and a first round bye in the playoffs. Why risk psyching out your QB or demoralizing his young teammates by printing the same, negative drivel over and over?

[FritzDontBlitz]

http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080105/PKR01/801050399/1989


The postseason has seen Favre sometimes at a finest, but also a couple of times at his worst, though it's no coincidence he was at his best when the Packers were their most talented. Two of the best games of his career, for instance, were at San Francisco in the playoffs, in the divisional round in the 1995 season and in the NFC championship game in the 1997 season. He had a passer rating of 107.4 points and completed 73.3 percent of his passes in the Packers' upset win over the 49ers' in the 1995 playoffs, and his passer rating was 98.1 points in leading the Packers to a win in the NFC title game in the '97 playoffs.

In the 1995 and 1996 playoffs he played some of his best football. In 2005, when the Packers lost in the NFC championship at Dallas, his passer rating was 106.9 points (eight touchdown passes, two interceptions) in three games. In 1996, when the Packers won the Super Bowl, his passer rating was even better, 107.5 points (five touchdown passes, one interception). In the Packers' Super Bowl loss to Denver, he had three touchdown passes, one interception and a 91.0 passer rating.

His lowest playoff moments were in the 2001 season, when he threw six interceptions in a blowout loss at St. Louis, and the 2003 season in the infamous fourth-and-26 loss at Philadelphia, where he played a good game but heaved an inexplicable interception in overtime that set up the Eagles' game-winning field goal.

"I'm disappointed in some of those games," Favre said, "I'm very disappointed in the Denver game. I thought I played pretty good but not good enough. There's been games, not only in playoffs but in the regular season, where I didn't play as good and we did win. I'd like to think we would have or should have won more playoff games, which in turn lead to a chance at the Super Bowl at least. But I don't know if I'd have done anything much different. I'd have played and prepared the same way. You just have a tendency to remember those (losses) because of what they represent."

Thank god someone still reports with a decent perspective.

[cpk1994]

Favre can't pick up first downs with his feet? You don't think that little 21 yard naked bootleg against Detroit won't have teams thinking he might run now?


No. That was Brett's first run in like 9 years. Any coach who takes even one second to think about Brett running the football shouldn't be the the NFL.