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When even the franchise QB won't commit to playing there?
Favre seems to have more football in him, but he suggests publicly that the team is hopeless, and he doesn;t want to endure another miserable season
This is a lot for TT to overcome when he makes his pitch to top prospects.
Possible spin...... to become the new face of the franchise and the Man who helped turn the Packers around from a 4-12 season.
Well, in truth, the prospects of the team is probably about third on the priority list of most free agents.
But I don't buy that GB is competing with SF to lure players with a savior complex.
Oh hell, I made an impossible question, and you at least get an A for effort.
HH, a very good question and one that I've posed a lot. There isn't much upside to being a Packer right now. A QB that doesn't believe in the talent on the roster and won't commit to return. A new coaching staff. A relatively new GM. A team on the heels of a 4-12 debacle of a season. A relatively quiet free agency period.
Right now, GB has bottomed out. 2006 may be another "bottoming out" year.
Dismal comment, yes, but when Favre doesn't even believe in the talent on the roster and is waiting to see if we improve even further to make his decision, what doest that say about our team?
Not many players will opt to sign with a losing team for the sake of turning around the program. Since life is so short as an NFL football player, and there is an extreme lack of true franchise players (ones who can pivot a team's success based on their participation), I don't see why a talented FA would choose GB. Beyond fat cash, I don't see why a FA would choose GB over a team on the rise (unless they are a bottom-feeder FA or end-of-the road vet lacking options).
tyler
If Tex were here, it wouldn't be an impossible question; it would be an argument of why 2006 will be our return to greatness. Not to pick on Tex, but I just don't see where 2006 optimism can come from. Maybe things will happen over the next month with some FA signings and the draft that make the situation spin differently, but I'm not that optimistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby
tyler
If you read the Ryan Pickett story on packers.com, he says that one of the reason he chose GB was because his wife liked the city.
Easy solution...... find UFA that have wives that like the city of GB. ::bows::
We'll have a winning team in no time! Obviously I'm kidding!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacks smirking revenge
Tex's reality is based on what he wishes were the case. I wish I could go through life that way.
Easy to answer this. The answer comes in denominations of 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, and 100Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$
That's green in any city you're in and that's the chief reason why most players sign contracts with other teams.
Why wouldn't a free agent commit to Green Bay is a better question? What is it that is so terrible and specific to this organization and city that isn't the same anywhere else.
Your comment about wives got me to thinkin ...... how about hookers and hidden video cameras? If we can get 'um to visit, I bet we can get 'um to come back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pack0514
oh, go ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacks smirking revenge
guerski, I think it is appropriate to re-spin the question. My take: GB is very limiting in many ways for a professional football player. It may work for someone at the lower-half of the ranks for the Packer roster, because they don't really have access to the same perks, but for the multi-million dollar FAs that have needs beyond the contract, GB can't provide the same things that the big-market cities can. Marketing dollars. Cultural venues. Celebrity. Flash. Fame. Glitz.Quote:
Originally Posted by gureski
Honestly, there's nothing at all terrible about the organization (other than its historically cheap) and the city (other than it is somewhat "ethnically-challenged"), but we're all Packer fans so its hard for us to see outside the cheese. If Brett loves GB so much, why doesn't he live in GB year-round? Why did Reggie return to Tennessee after he retired (other than for religious reasons)? The answer is that GB isn't for everyone. I love it. It's a great place to visit. But I wouldn't want to live there again because I've been spoiled by big cities with more options than GB.
Football players, with average age of mid-twenties, aren't very far from my mindset.
tyler
This has all the signs of a bad Maury Povich "Is my Husband Cheating" show. Very doable though.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby
This could also be new FOX reality show..... we'll just have to keep the wives away from the TV.
"guerski, I think it is appropriate to re-spin the question. My take: GB is very limiting in many ways for a professional football player. It may work for someone at the lower-half of the ranks for the Packer roster, because they don't really have access to the same perks, but for the multi-million dollar FAs that have needs beyond the contract, GB can't provide the same things that the big-market cities can. Marketing dollars. Cultural venues. Celebrity. Flash. Fame. Glitz. "
end quote
Sure, the endorsement opportunities aren't the same in G.B. but Favre and White proved that you can still get National recognition while playing in G.B.. That's the only thing (city size) that you can point to as a true negative and frankly it's not isolated only to G.B.. Buffalo is small market, Indianapolis, Minnesota....many places offer limited endorsement opportunities. That alone isn't a reason not to come here. It could be a tiebreaker but it alone isn't a deciding factor.
On G.B. being a small city without a ton of nightlife and how that could affect players wanting to come here.... I would say that most free agents reach free agency after 3 to 5 years after their rookie year. By then, they've had their fun and aren't as wild as they were when they signed their first deal. It's just not as big of a factor and in some cases is an advantage as some players like that small town atmosphere. Furthermore, as a counter to the big city, G.B. offers things that the big cities cannot offer such as hunting, fishing, outdoor recreational activities and things like that which revolve around our outdoors environment. That's attractive. We have some things that other places don't have just like other places have some things that we don't have. After you examine it all ....it's a horse a piece. I see no clear winner. If the money is there....there is nothing to cause a free agent not to come here.
If you asked me...if the money is equal then you, as a player, would look for a winning franchise or a team that is going to be a winning team so that you can have a chance at a title. You may look for something that is closer to your natural home so you can spend more time with your family. And you look for a place where you can get playing time. Everything else is minor. G.B. doesn't have to take a back seat to everyone right now. There are plenty of teams rebuilding or coming off disappointing seasons. Why not G.B. over Buffalo or Cleveland? Why not G.B. over Minnesota? Over Jacksonville? I'm just saying it's not like this is the late 70's and early 80's where G.B. was viewed as the Siberia of the NFL and we hadn't won for decades. This is one bad season. There is no stigma right now. It's manufactured right now.
Reggie White said that God told him to come to Green Bay, along with 17 million other meaningless reasons.
It really comes down to cash, especially when your team is in the condition fo the Packers. They aren't pushing for the Super Bowl, and believe it or not players that are aging but have a few solid years left hold that in high regard.
For whatever reason, certain players that have suited up in the green and gold have and are now currently taking shots at the front office for not re-doing contracts, or not paying enough. Other teams are not having this problem, why are the Packers? They're signing these players to fair market deals. They are not low balling any of these players.
Grady Jackson had the chance to reap a bigger contract and he flat out refused to take any of the workout and weight bonuses that would have added close to another million on that contract. The Packers even gave him an advance. He has absolutely no reason to have complained about his contract other than other defensive tackles got more. Well that is how the market goes, and you can see where his belly aching and poor attitude has gotten him.
The Packer have top notch facilities with a management group that spends money on the players. There is no owner to get a fat pay check if they scrooge on the weight room, locker room, travel expenses, or field conditions. The players eat like kings while they are at the facility. Trust me not all organizations are run this way. If you don't believe me go ask Cory Dillion about the way players were treated by the Bengal's organization. He had to bring in his own training staff just so he could get treatment after practices.
Some of the more veteran players do like the Green Bay environment. It is a great place to raise your family and send your kids to school. They have settled down and don't need the excitement of places like New York, Atlanta, or Los Angeles, wait there is no team in LA.
[quote="gureski"]"guerski, I think it is appropriate to re-spin the question. My take: GB is very limiting in many ways for a professional football player. It may work for someone at the lower-half of the ranks for the Packer roster, because they don't really have access to the same perks, but for the multi-million dollar FAs that have needs beyond the contract, GB can't provide the same things that the big-market cities can. Marketing dollars. Cultural venues. Celebrity. Flash. Fame. Glitz. "
end quote
Having been to all of the places you just mentioned, minus Buffalo, I have to disagree. Each of those have far more to offer than GB. They just do. If you compare the economics of each area, Minneapolis itself has far more headquarters of international companies than most of eastern WI combined, thus, the endorsement opportunities and perks follow because international companies have to pander to CEOs and larger market corporations. Indianapolis also has many professional teams, as does Minneapolis. I can't speak to Buffalo. Heck, the bottom line is that I moved AWAY from GB because the job market stunk and the cultural opportunities are limited. Both of those are directly tied to the endorsement options.Quote:
Originally Posted by gureski
I have to disagree with you on this one as well. If a player enters the NFL at 21 or 22 by your math, they're reaching their BIG contract at 24 or 26. They are far from "settling down" and wanting a small market atmosphere. Some players are just prone to that because of upbringing. I won't argue on that point. But hunting and fishing can be found on either coast as well, and its probably even more interesting fishing in the Keys or in the Pacific, or riding an Atlantic swell. Heck, we all know how much quail hunting is done in Texas, so you can't argue that one. Truly, G.B. doesn't offer any outdoor rec activities that other big market cities don't offer, except outdoor Winter activites such as snowmobiling or ice fishing. When I lived in GB, one of my best friends owned a game farm. It was one that the Packers visited regularly and it was nothing more than a hobby farm. Sure, that was a nice place to visit, but nothing compared to some of the ones that I've visited in Minnesota. It was a modest place hours away from GB.Quote:
Originally Posted by gureski
Cleveland has generated a lot of buzz of late, IMHO. Crennel has had some time with his staff and is "building". Minnesota is obviously a team that will be picked as part of the class of the NFC. Jacksonville? I honestly don't know much about them for 2006, haven't researched them much. But you're not being honest with yourself if you see the glass as more full than empty. Green Bay has more question marks than any other franchise and when there are glaring question marks with a franchise, everything else becomes more important--market, nightlife, culture, housing, schools, weather. You name it. Pickett's wife liked G.B. and I think that's cool. Kings to you in that scenario. But we were only able to get two free agents (of consequence) that we went after this offseason. The glass is half-empty if you ask me. No fabrication needed. Just facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by gureski
Green Bay is a wonderful place. Don't get me wrong. It's just not for everybody. And if the money's equal, the franchise question marks and limitations of the place, in my opinion, would send a FA looking elsewhere.
tyler
When it comes to the Vikings, you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastak
:D
"Green Bay is a wonderful place. Don't get me wrong. It's just not for everybody. And if the money's equal, the franchise question marks and limitations of the place, in my opinion, would send a FA looking elsewhere. "
end quote
See, you just said it... "IF the money is equal". That's my overall point... If the money is there...as in we're the high bidder....free agents WILL come to G.B.. We do not have some damaged reputation that is and will keep players from coming here. We did, in the past, have such a reputation. We don't have that right now. Guys will, have, and are coming here. You may have a few players that don't want to play here but you'll have a few players that don't want to play in any city. That's my point. There is nothing that is so awful about G.B. that forces players to NOT consider G.B..
I agree with you that endorsement deals are less in G.B. but endorsement deals are less in Minnesota then in New York and less in Indianapolis then S.D.. It's all relative. Endoresement opportunities in G.B. are not that far off Minnesota which isn't that far off Buffalo which isn't that far off the market size of Houston and Jacksonville. That's the bottom line. Market size....these cities aren't that far off G.B. and if you include Milwaukee into the picture they're the same.
The real point is that in the overall scope of things endorsement deals don't matter to the majority of players signing deals. No player turns down G.B. mainly because they don't have enough potential endorsement deals. They turn the Packers down because they're not offerring enough money or because the team talent isn't where they want it to be or because it's too cold. G.B. is just as good a place to play, if not better then any other city. Some people are talking, of late, like the Packers are a place players don't want to go. That's just not true. It's manufactured. That's what I'm attacking. If the money is there....players will come here. They wont say....I'll take less to play in a city other then G.B.. Players aren't turning away from G.B..
Do you think players are turning away from G.B.?
Personal opinion, yes, but I really don't have anything to back that up. And, honestly, I could be totally off-base. If Woodson chooses Tampa, where he'll be stuck at safety and not corner, over GB, where he could play his natural position, then I think my point will be proven. My opinion may be colored by the questionable offseason we've had so far. Part of me supports TT and his frugalness, his "stick-to-a-plan" attitude; another part of me wonders why we've been left out in the cold by so much of the free agent markets when we were the #1 or #2 team with cap space before FA began. I agree that if we always lead with more money than the other team, which isn't always the best or easiest route to go, then we should be raking in the FAs. So why haven't we?Quote:
Originally Posted by gureski
Blame TT? Perhaps, but we truly don't know how active (or inactive) he has been. If we hadn't nailed Pickett to a contract, all of this talk would be much different and TT would be fully defending his lack of FA success.
Blame Favre? Perhaps, but, by your logic, if we've offered a FA a money with good $$$, then Favre is irrelevant.
Blame the new staff? I think you could only blame the new staff if we had a flood of FA cross our borders and consequently choose another team. We don't know how effective (or ineffective) M3 and the new Packer coaching staff will be and no FA knows that either.
Blame the city? As you suggested, that really isn't fair. But it can't be discounted. It has to be argued in the same breath as all of the rest of the reasons.
Blame $$$? Well, that's tied to TT. We may never know how many contract offers he threw out there, only to be laughed at.
All we know is that, in this offseason, we signed a boatload of last year's players and a handful of second-tier FAs. Lots of players were signed to one-year deals. We truly can't pass judgment on the effectiveness of the offseason until the season starts.
tyler
Some came here intentionally...
Quote:
Not far from his Iowa home and his Midwestern roots, Green Bay's location was a major reason why Cundiff signed with the Packers. Green Bay is only a seven-to-eight hour drive away from his hometown of Harlan. (For the record the town did not name itself after Packers president and CEO Bob Harlan.) Cundiff also has friends in Chicago and a brother in Minneapolis.
"I wanted to get back to the Midwest," Cundiff said. "It's closer to my family."
Cundiff chose the Midwestern team over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Other clubs expressed interest in Cundiff, but the free agent derby came down to a battle of the Bays -- only Green Bay and Tampa Bay made contract offers. Viewing Cundiff as a more cost efficient replacement for their incumbent kicker and unrestricted free agent Matt Bryant, the Buccaneers signed Cundiff before the NFL established a new collective bargaining agreement.
"It was a money thing," Cundiff said.
When the NFL owners agreed to a new deal on March 8, each team received more 2006 salary cap space, and the Buccaneers could afford to retain Bryant. Cundiff, however, remains content with the way things worked out.
"I ended up coming here where they were happy to have me," he said.
Quote:
As safety Marquand Manuel walks past the Vince Lombardi trophies on the way to the Packers' locker room, the former Seattle Seahawk knows why he decided to sign with Green Bay.
"The biggest thing was just the tradition," Manuel said.
Quote:
Titletown's tradition also impressed outside linebacker Ben Taylor, but the main reason he joined the Packers instead of re-signing with the Cleveland Browns was because of Green Bay's defensive scheme.
Green Bay did not necessarily offer these guys any more money than they were offered anywhere else. Actually didn't one of them take less money than he could have gotten elsewhere to come here?