Futile attempt to win now or building to win in 3-4 years?
Which would you prefer?
It's become increasingly annoying to hear everyone say that the team isn't doing enough to support Favre in his last bid to win a championship. Since when does a team have to appease their Hall-of-Fame QB on the decline?Blasphemy maybe, but this team, regardless of FA/draft signings, is a few years away from competing for a title. Why make move that have a deletrious effect on the future when winning now really isn't an option.
Management has been hogtied by Favre for the past several years, awaiting his announcement of retirement or not. What if he stays another year? A first-round pick on Rodgers would have been wasted.
That said, I don't blame them at all for not loading up on overpriced FA talent just to give it one last run with Favre. Two Pro-Bowl FA signings wouldn't make this a 11-5 team I don't think.
It's proven that great teams are built through the draft and avoiding the hype in signings free agents (i.e. Patriots).
One can only hope that this team is building for a run two years down the road that will last three seasons... with another QB at the helm.
Re: Futile attempt to win now or building to win in 3-4 year
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesehead4
Which would you prefer?
It's become increasingly annoying to hear everyone say that the team isn't doing enough to support Favre in his last bid to win a championship. Since when does a team have to appease their Hall-of-Fame QB on the decline?Blasphemy maybe, but this team, regardless of FA/draft signings, is a few years away from competing for a title. Why make move that have a deletrious effect on the future when winning now really isn't an option.
Management has been hogtied by Favre for the past several years, awaiting his announcement of retirement or not. What if he stays another year? A first-round pick on Rodgers would have been wasted.
That said, I don't blame them at all for not loading up on overpriced FA talent just to give it one last run with Favre. Two Pro-Bowl FA signings wouldn't make this a 11-5 team I don't think.
It's proven that great teams are built through the draft and avoiding the hype in signings free agents (i.e. Patriots).
One can only hope that this team is building for a run two years down the road that will last three seasons... with another QB at the helm.
I disagree with your opinion on oh so many levels! The "declining" Favre as you call him has had 1 WR and a terrible O-line along with no running game for the last few years. Ya think those FACTS might have something to do with why Favre has declined? May-be in your world, QB's can win on their own with no help but alas, the real world is a tad different.
As for the loading up on over-priced FA's, well that has become the mantra of the TT crew has'nt it? It's like one of those political catch phrases, it sounds good, but when examined, means nothing. Eric Johnson costs 2 mill for 1 year with no future risk. Griffith cost 3 mill but let's say 3.5 in order to entice him to come here for 3 yrs. Johnson would be a huge up-grade over Franks and that cannot be disputed. We are gonna be weak at FB this season and again Griffith would have been an up-grade. I also advocated bringing Hamlin here and he also was signed for reasonable money. I believe those 3 moves would have made us a play-off team and none of them would have damaged the future in any way shape or form.
As for your last point about Favre not being Owed anything, well that is a matter of pure opinion. May-be if you had to sit through the number of clowns that played QB in the 70's and 80's, you'd have a much deeper admiration for Favre than you do. Here are some FACTS that put your opinion to shame:
1- Brett Favre, not Wolf or Holmgren, brought this organization back from being the laughingstock of the NFL. One could argue that Favre is on the same level as Lombardi when it comes to the respect level that the football world has for them. Because of playing in the modern age, Favre has done more for this team than ANY other player in it's history. #04 is known and respected world wide. He's the reason why ANY Packer games are shown in prime time. He is and has been the "face" of the Packers for a long long time.
2- In the world of the "me first" players, Brett has always been a team player. He's never threatened to hold out or even talk about wanting more money. The passion Favre plays with is un-matched by any other player. One thing Packer fans can say about Favre, is that he has always made us proud, even through difficult times like the pain pill episode.
3- Lastly and most importantly, is the fact that Favre has played hurt both physically and emotionally because he wanted so badly for this team to win. We all know, no other player in the league could have played with the pain Brett has had and not just play, but play well. Sprained ankles, seperated shoulders, and broken thumbs have not kept him out. The term "warrior" is thrown about the NFL like candy, but we all know that the meaning of "warrior" in the NFL is Brett Favre. He has given everything to the Green Bay Packers and he has given everything to us fans. No matter what the circumstance, we always knew every week that #4 would give 110% and we knew with him, there always was a chance to win.
The problem with you and some others is that Favre has been around so long, that he's been taken for granted. You guys are gonna be in for a very rude awakening when Favre leaves.
There were moves Thompson could have made to give Favre one more shot that would not have sacrificed the future from re-signing Walker to signing a few medium priced, low risk FA's. With all Favre has given us, I don't believe it was to much to ask for Teddy to give Brett 1 more shot......
Re: Futile attempt to win now or building to win in 3-4 year
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packnut
The "declining" Favre as you call him has had 1 WR and a terrible O-line along with no running game for the last few years. Ya think those FACTS might have something to do with why Favre has declined? May-be in your world, QB's can win on their own with no help but alas, the real world is a tad different.
Packnut you obviously have no idea whatsoever what a FACT really is, and you throw that word around on this board, accusing people of not using FACTS to support their arguments, more than anyone.
Look it up maybe... Here's a link for you.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fact
1. Your OPINION that Greg Jennings sucks is debatable to say the least. Enough on that.
2. The "terrible O-line" you state as fact was IN FACT, fifth in the league in sacks allowed and paved the way for the 13th best rushing attack in the league last year. Max protect schemes and all, it's clear that it's highly debatable whether the o-line was "terrible."
3. Your "no running game" OPINION was better than 19 other teams in the league. What "FACTS" would you use to describe those teams' running games?
I don't disagree with you that Favre is a great QB and has been single biggest asset this team has had for the last two generations of football teams. We all have great admiration for the accomplishments of Favre, but my God, if you're going to be the FACT nazi and throwing that word around all over the place, please know what the hell you're talking about and use it consistently with it's actual meaning.
Re: Futile attempt to win now or building to win in 3-4 year
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packnut
The "declining" Favre as you call him has had 1 WR and a terrible O-line along with no running game for the last few years. Ya think those FACTS might have something to do with why Favre has declined? May-be in your world, QB's can win on their own with no help but alas, the real world is a tad different.
Packnut you obviously have no idea whatsoever what a FACT really is, and you throw that word around on this board, accusing people of not using FACTS to support their arguments, more than anyone.
Look it up maybe... Here's a link for you.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fact
1. Your OPINION that Greg Jennings sucks is debatable to say the least. Enough on that.
2. The "terrible O-line" you state as fact was IN FACT, fifth in the league in sacks allowed and paved the way for the 13th best rushing attack in the league last year. Max protect schemes and all, it's clear that it's highly debatable whether the o-line was "terrible."
3. Your "no running game" OPINION was better than 19 other teams in the league. What "FACTS" would you use to describe those teams' running games?
I don't disagree with you that Favre is a great QB and has been single biggest asset this team has had for the last two generations of football teams. We all have great admiration for the accomplishments of Favre, but my God, if you're going to be the FACT nazi and throwing that word around all over the place, please know what the hell you're talking about and use it consistently with it's actual meaning.
I never said Jennings sucked. I said he disappeared most of the time in the 2nd half of the season and that the jury was still out on him. As far as the o-line, try learning what maximum protection is and then get back to me. Also go back and watch how the o-line was man-handeled by the Vikes, Pats and Jets. It has "potential" just like Jennings but until "potential" translates into production on the field, it can't be used as fact.
The run game was ranked 23rd last season and 30th in 05. I have no idea what the hell your watching but get your facts straight. Is it that hard to go to NFL.com and look up stats? If it is to challenging, I'd be more than happy to explain how they work for you.
I guess calling me names like Nazi is suppossed to aggravate me, but in reality it speaks volumes about you. When people have little or no facts to argue with, they usually resort to name calling out of frustration. I suggest we just ignore each other as this will be my last response to you because frankly your just not worth a minute of my time......
Re: Futile attempt to win now or building to win in 3-4 year
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packnut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesehead4
Which would you prefer?
It's become increasingly annoying to hear everyone say that the team isn't doing enough to support Favre in his last bid to win a championship. Since when does a team have to appease their Hall-of-Fame QB on the decline?Blasphemy maybe, but this team, regardless of FA/draft signings, is a few years away from competing for a title. Why make move that have a deletrious effect on the future when winning now really isn't an option.
It's proven that great teams are built through the draft and avoiding the hype in signings free agents (i.e. Patriots).
One can only hope that this team is building for a run two years down the road that will last three seasons... with another QB at the helm.
Agree!
As for your last point about Favre not being Owed anything, well that is a matter of pure opinion.
May-be if you had to sit through the number of clowns that played QB in the 70's and 80's, you'd have a much deeper admiration for Favre than you do.
I certainly did, as well as the decline in the late 60's.
I like Favre - great player.
Are his personal stats, image, and and legacies more important than the Green Bay Packers?
No.
He is a great player on a team that has been fortunate enough to have had many great players over the years.
1- [i]
Brett Favre, not Wolf or Holmgren, brought this organization back from being the laughingstock of the NFL. One could argue that Favre is on the same level as Lombardi when it comes to the respect level that the football world has for them. Because of playing in the modern age, Favre has done more for this team than ANY other player in it's history.[/i]
Whoa, Sparky.
When appreciation for a great football player devolves into unabashed
Messiah worship, it casts severe cold water on the overall legitimacy of the entire agrument.
Let's be logical : no Wolf, no Favre. No Wolf, no Holmgren. No Holmgren, Favre remains the talented yet immature wildboy the Falcons gave up on.
The same 'level' as Lombardi???????????????????????????????????
What are you smoking???
There were moves Thompson could have made to give Favre one more shot that would not have sacrificed the future from re-signing Walker to signing a few medium priced, low risk FA's.
With all Favre has given us, I don't believe it was to much to ask for Teddy to give Brett 1 more shot......
Favre has received enough money to keep his family super rich for many, many generations. He could walk away now (come to think of it, he could have walked away years ago) and never had to grab the lunchbucket with the rest of us.
Favre has received the fawning, adoring worship (and been absolved of each & every one of his football sins) of his Cult.
Favre has carved his place as an alltime NFL great.
Favre has not been 'cheated' regarding championships. He won one (and it should be pointed out that that single championship came when he had the most talented team in the NFL as his supporting cast!). He had a second Super Bowl within his grasp. He had a winnable Philly game that wound up lost on a panicked lameduck pass.
He's had chances. Any less than Elway? Marino?
Nope.
I want to see the Packers built the right way - for the long haul - and not to patch and plug to satisfy the Cult's demands.
Re: Futile attempt to win now or building to win in 3-4 year
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesehead4
Management has been hogtied by Favre for the past several years, awaiting his announcement of retirement or not. What if he stays another year? A first-round pick on Rodgers would have been wasted.
I have to disagree with this point. How is it a certainty that the A rod pick is wasted, even if Favre sticks around for another year? Who knows what hs progression would be and/or will be with or without Favre? All that really matters is whether he can actually play well when his time comes. Assuming that's next year, what's the problem? Sure, he may require a year or two to get up to speed, but perhaps not. The fact that the Packers picked him suggests they were planning for the future, whenever Favre isn't around. What's that old line - The hardest time to find a QB is when you don't have one. Pehaps the Packers were trying to avoid that. perhaps it HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FAVRE 'hogtying' them - just common sense drafting - if you have a QB rated as the best QB in the draft and he drops to you, you pick him.
And for the record, I thin TT has now buuilt up a tremendous amount of depth on the squad. That should have reprecussions on 'teams and in case of injuries. This team may only be a year away from seriously competing, even with Favre gone. Two, maybe three guys elevate their game to pro bowl level THIS year, and they might win 10 games.
Re: Futile attempt to win now or building to win in 3-4 year
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packnut
I never said Jennings sucked. I said he disappeared most of the time in the 2nd half of the season and that the jury was still out on him. As far as the o-line, try learning what maximum protection is and then get back to me. Also go back and watch how the o-line was man-handeled by the Vikes, Pats and Jets. It has "potential" just like Jennings but until "potential" translates into production on the field, it can't be used as fact.
Now you're getting the point. And yes I understand perfectly what max protect is, but thanks again for your suggestion.
Quote:
The run game was ranked 23rd last season and 30th in 05. I have no idea what the hell your watching but get your facts straight. Is it that hard to go to NFL.com and look up stats? If it is to challenging, I'd be more than happy to explain how they work for you.
Thanks for the offer Packnut, but I can read the statistics just fine. I was going from memory and I cited the defensive ranking rather than the offensive rushing ranking. The fact is the Packers ranked a rather average 18th in yds. per rushing attempt in '06 and 5th in fewest sacks allowed.
The point is - regardless whether your or my opinion of that performance is "terrible", "pedestrian", "started terrible and improved as the season progressed", "average in rushing and pretty damn good in pass protection", or something else, the fact remains that those are opinions - not facts, as you wrongly asserted your opinion to be.
Quote:
I guess calling me names like Nazi is suppossed to aggravate me, but in reality it speaks volumes about you. When people have little or no facts to argue with, they usually resort to name calling out of frustration. I suggest we just ignore each other as this will be my last response to you because frankly your just not worth a minute of my time......
I'm not concerned whether you're aggravated or don't care about the post. The description "fact nazi" was used (as it is commonly used) to mean "a domineering and intolerant person." In my opinion, the majority of your posts show exactly those qualities. But it is your posts that I should have referred to, not you personally. Sorry about that.
The utter hypocrisy in your post, though, is noteworthy. For you to put forth such a blatantly false appearance and insinuate that you're above calling others names is an absolute joke.
Does the name "sheep" ring a bell to you, Packnut? Go back through your posts the last few days. You'll find it. I have no doubt whatsoever that I could easily find at least 10 instances where you personally denigrated other posters here with a derogatory name or description. Let me know if you want me to go through the exercise of doing so.
And while I already understand your perceptions and motivations for the style of your posts, at least you have explicitly explained (at least in part) why you choose to throw around personal attacks the way you have to date. My intent, however, was just the opposite. It was to demonstrate to you and others that YOU are the one who didn't put forth facts, but wrongly explicitly stated that they were.
Regarding your suggestion that we avoid each others posts... Obviously, if you want to ignore my posts, that's your choice and I have no problem with that. Obviously, you have every right to defend yourself however, because when you and every other poster puts forth their assertions in this public forum, all other posters have the right to respond - and possibly challenge - those assertions. I don't get the opportunity to post as much as I'd like, but when I can, I intend to continue responding to any and all posts here, including yours.
