Well, thats up for you to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by retailguy
Printable View
Well, thats up for you to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by retailguy
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL
PRESS RELEASE
AI Index: AMR 51/091/2006 (Public)
News Service No: 149
12 June 2006
USA: Independent investigation must be held into deaths of three Guantánamo detainees
Amnesty International today called for a fully independent investigation led by civilians into the deaths of three Guantanamo detainees after apparent suicides.
The organisation also called on the US government to give the group of five UN experts immediate and unrestricted access to the Guantánamo detention centre, and in particular allow the experts to talk privately with detainees.
The detainees who died have been identified as Saudi nationals Mane'i bin Shaman bin Turki al-Habardi al-'Otaybi and Yassar Talal 'Abdullah Yahia al-Zahrani, who was reportedly 17 when he was taken into custody, and Yemeni national 'Ali 'Abdullah Ahmed.
“This has been tragedy waiting to happen. A full independent investigation is a matter of absolute urgency particularly in the light of statements from high-ranking members of the US military and government, which risk undermining the investigation launched by the Naval Criminal Investigation Service,†said Rob Freer, Amnesty Internationalâ€℠s researcher on the US.
The dismissal of the deaths of the three detainees by the US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy, Colleen Graffy as “a good PR move to draw attention†shows a chilling disregard for human life.
Amnesty International is also deeply concerned by the statement from the Commander of Joint Task Force Guantánamo, Navy Rear Admiral Harry B. Harris that the three detainees had not killed themselves out of desperation, but as “an act of asymmetric warfareâ€ÂÂ.
“The Commander’s statement is entirely inappropriate, and is part of a pattern of official commentary on the presumed guilt of detainees who have never had an opportunity to challenge their detentions in a court of law,†said Rob Freer.
Furthermore, the military authorities have shown themselves to be oblivious to the psychological suffering of the detainees. Earlier, military psychiatrists reportedly reclassified suicide attempts as “manipulative self-injurious behaviourâ€ÂÂ, resulting in a decrease in the rate of suicide attempts officially recorded.
Detainees, including released detainees interviewed by Amnesty International, have spoken of the psychological impact of the isolation and indefinite nature of the Guantánamo regime -- conditions that Amnesty International has defined as amounting to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment prohibited under international law.
“Amnesty International has long been concerned that some Guantánamo prisoners are so psychologically damaged by being held for years on end without charge or trial that they are becoming suicidal,†said Rob Freer.
“President George W. Bush has it within his power to order an end to this human rights scandal now and to ensure that detainees are either brought to fair trial or released with full safeguards as a matter of urgencyâ€ÂÂ.
International pressure for the closure of the detention centre has been mounting.
Three years ago, the International Committee of the Red Cross – the only outside organization with access to the detainees – took the unusual step of making public its concern that the indefinite detention regime at Guantánamo was having severe psychological repercussions on the detainees.
Last month the United Nations Committee Against Torture joined the growing calls for closure of the Guantánamo Bay detention facility, concluding that this indefinite detention without charge is itself a violation of the Convention against Torture.
Amnesty International reiterates its call for closure of Guantánamo Bay, which must be carried out without transferring the lawlessness elsewhere. There must be full disclosure of all other US “war on terror†detentions, which should be brought into full compliance with international law. Those detainees who are to be released but cannot be returned to their countries because they risk of grave human rights abuses must be offered protection by the USA. Other countries, if necessary, should assist.
The organization also reiterates its call for a full independent commission of inquiry into all aspects of the USA’s detention and interrogation policies and practices in the “war on terrorâ€ÂÂ, including renditions and secret detentions.
In another development apparently related to the deaths, on 10 June, John D. Altenburg, the Appointing Authority for Military Commissions, issued an order staying all proceedings by military commission. Pre-trial hearings had been scheduled to occur this and next week.
Amnesty International opposes the trials by military commission, which fall far short of international standards for fair trial. The organization continues to call on President Bush to rescind the Military Order of 13 November 2001 establishing the commissions. He should not wait for the US Supreme Court to rule on the issue.
He wouldn't have made it to Cuba. Likely, he'd be held in secret locations in Amman or eastern deserted parts of Jordan like Chemical Ali and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed - aka 9/11 Mastermind. I'd love to see people cry out that these deuce bags should be treated as good as their friends in Cuba.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyWallbangers
I'd recommend everyone think about the USS Cole, Afrian embassy attacks, Spain train bombing, London subway bombings, Phillipine night club bombings, NYC, DC, etc, etc, etc....
Do you honestly think that if Osama captured Rummy that he'd even make it out with his head attached to his body??? This is not a reason to promote torture but more to realize we're not fighting a conventional war.
I saw something on Foxnews and they made this place out to be some country club. They talked about how everyone was gaining weight and just shooting the shit....Apparently it's not all fun and games liek Bill O'reily reported huh?....
Fox news is as fucking conservative as a conservative fuck. I rarely watched Fox news anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by NickCollins
I stopped reading at Actually. Again, I couldn't care less about the terrorists at Gitmo. They'll have their military tribunal. Let 'em rot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-Polar Bear
Those are all sad events and I hope from the bottom of my heart every single idiot responsible for those events are brought to justice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fosco33
But you just can't ignore the thousands of innocent Iraqis who perished as a result of a few evil doers. You cannot ignore the fact that hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent humans are being tortured.
Bush can fight the war on terror all he wants, and I support that, but to do so at the expense of thousands of civilians is truly wrong, imo.
Think about it in another way then. You are an innocent family man. Some thug kidnaps you and simply said you belongs to that group, and then sold you to a foreign army. You are taken to nonrestrictive prison where due process of law is meaningless, and there you are miserably tortured.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyWallbangers
Yeah, I guess i shouldn't care about you too.
"Thus, across the world, the USA has progressively woven a clandestine 'spider's web' of disappearances, secret detentions and unlawful inter-state transfers, often emcompassing countries notorious for their use of torture. Hundreds of persons have become entrapped in this web."
Council of Europe Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, 7 June 2006.
Sounds like we're taking advice from The Art of War - I wonder what this read up on al-Qaeda would look like considering the secret cells and other tactics. What else are we supposed to do - just ignore them and take the high, 'moral' road?Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-Polar Bear
Once again, Tank is singlehandedly responsisble for lowering the collective intelligence of the world, if even just a little bit.
http://www.good-news-outreach.org/ph...20clapping.jpg
Yeah!
Once again, bringing to the table such highly reputable sources as:
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL
Council of Europe Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights
"reports"
And his very own entry level polisci course
And in a return performance, the stereotyping of hundreds of thousands of people in his efforts to demonstrate how "open-minded," "loving," and "respectful" he is!
Tune in next time, when Tank uses Al Gore's invention, "The Internet" to discover more interesting facts from such sources as:
The New York Times
Al Franken
His own anus
http://www.enterstageright.com/archi...4frankenal.jpg
Come on! I must have more value than Tank's cornhole!
http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/9712/18/f...nken.large.jpg
Don't I?
http://www.indianamilitary.org/28TH/...reck/Crowd.jpg
...
http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/9712/18/f...nken.large.jpg
...
Fuck it. Guess I gotta do that bit again.
http://instapunk.com/images/franken.jpg
How big an asshole Brit Hume is and how shameless, how fucking shameless these people are! These people are so fucking shameless! They are shameless!! And I don’t just say this because the Fox people sued me! Yeeaaarrrgggg!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/hampshire/conte...wd_470x300.jpg
Yeah! Burn Bush! Kill conservatives! Fuck em in the ass and pour gasoline on their corpses! Their unfounded, misguided, blind hatred is what's wrong with this country! Yeah! Put them in dog collars, cut swastikas in their hair, piss on their faces and throw them in a prison on the bottom of the ocean without food and water and light with only Barbara Streisand tracks to keep them company so that we can bring human rights, dignity, and brotherhood to this world! Buzz buzz buzzz.
http://www.joetresh.com/tresh/2005/10/al_franken.jpg
*snicker*
Works every time.
Nobody can do a visual rant like Skinbasket.
Haha, fuckin hilarious Skin.
I had never really noticed it before, but now that you mention it, for an open-minded enlightened liberal man Tank does seem a little judgemental. :lol:
..
They are POWs and are lucky we dont put them into a supermax prison with NO outside contact and in a cell for 23 hours a day in solitary and 1 hour outside for exercise.
Amnesty International is like you tank a bunch of bleading heart liberals. Liberals all talk on how we should beat terrorism but wantot do it with bunnies and chocolate.
This is a new war. WE, yes WE the Western World, is fighting against this scourge and until we get the normal Islamics and Muslims to stand up to these extreme idiots and take back their countries.
The U.S.A. is not a great counrty because of the laws of our land it is because we respect the fact that idiots like myself and Tank can disagree so much and instead of going out and getting a M-16 and shooting at eachother.
These guys at Gitmo should be given nutrients and 3 hots and a cot. THATS IT. They are POWs. They should not be allowed to read, watch TV or anything like that. They are prisoners of the military which is MUCH different than our 'let all the rapist, murderers and molesters" out of jail as soon as possible.
So, White House is doing a bit of a rewording on this one... not sure that I totally agree w/ calling them POWs but as I said before, they do deserve humane treatment (which they are likely receiving anyway).
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/....ap/index.html
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Bush administration, called to account by Congress after the Supreme Court blocked military tribunals, said Tuesday that all detainees held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba and in all other U.S. military custody around the world are entitled to protections under the Geneva Conventions.
White House spokesman Tony Snow said the policy, outlined in a new Defense Department memo, reflects the recent 5-3 Supreme Court decision blocking military tribunals set up by President Bush. That decision struck down the tribunals because they did not obey international law and had not been authorized by Congress.
The policy, described in a memo by Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England, appears to reverse the administration's earlier insistence that the detainees are not prisoners of war and thus not subject to the Geneva protections.
The memo instructs recipients to ensure that all Defense Department policies, practices and directives comply with Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions governing the humane treatment of prisoners.
"You will ensure that all DOD personnel adhere to these standards," England wrote.
Word of the Bush administration's new stance came as the Senate Judiciary Committee opened hearings Tuesday on the Guantanamo issue -- which is testing unity among Republicans on Capitol Hill, with lawmakers trying to decide in an election season how military detainees should be tried and what their rights should be.
Led by Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pennsylvania, the committee's hearing was the first of three this week planned by congressional panels. The House and Senate Armed Services committees also were conducting hearings.
"We're not going to give the Department of Defense a blank check," said Specter told the hearing Tuesday.
Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont, the committee's top Democrat, said "kangaroo court procedures" must be changed and any military commissions "should not be set up as a sham. They should be consistent with a high standard of American justice, worth protecting."
The Senate is expected to take up legislation addressing the legal rights of suspected terrorists after the August recess -- timing that would push the issue squarely into the election season.
Guantanamo has been a flash point for both U.S. and international debate over the treatment of detainees without trial and over allegations of torture, denied by U.S. officials. Even U.S. allies in the war on terrorism have criticized the facility and process.
The camp came under worldwide condemnation after it opened more than four years ago, when pictures showed prisoners kneeling, shackled and being herded into wire cages. It intensified with reports of heavy-handed interrogations, hunger strikes and suicides.
Snow: Not a policy reversal
Snow insisted that all U.S. detainees have been treated humanely. Still, he said, "We want to get it right."
"It's not really a reversal of policy," Snow asserted, calling the Supreme Court decision "complex."
Under questioning from the committee, Daniel Dell'Orto, principal deputy general counsel at the Pentagon, said he believes the current treatment of detainees -- as well as the existing tribunal process -- already complies with Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions.
"The memo that went out, it doesn't indicate a shift in policy," he said. "It just announces the decision of the court."
"The military commission set up does provide a right to counsel, a trained military defense counsel and the right to private counsel of the detainee's choice," Dell'Orto said. "We see no reason to change that in legislation."
Steven Bradbury, acting assistant attorney general of the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel, told the Senate hearing that the Bush administration would abide by the Supreme Court's ruling that a provision of the Geneva Conventions applies.
But he acknowledged that the provision -- which requires humane treatment of captured combatants and requires trials with judicial guarantees "recognized as indispensable by civilized people" -- is ambiguous and would be hard to interpret.
"The application of common Article 3 will create a degree of uncertainty for those who fight to defend us from terrorist attack," Bradbury said.
Snow said efforts to spell out more clearly the rights of detainees do not change the president's determination to work with Congress to enable the administration to proceed with the military tribunals, or commissions. The goal is "to find a way to properly do this in a way consistent with national security," Snow said.
Snow said that the instruction manuals used by the Department of Defense already comply with the humane-treatment provisions of Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. They are currently being updated to reflect legislation passed by Congress and sponsored by Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, to more expressly rule out torture.
"The administration intends to work with Congress," Snow said.
"We want to fulfill the mandates of justice, making sure we find a way properly to try people who have been plucked off the battlefields who are not combatants in the traditional sense," he said.
"The Supreme Court pretty much said it's over to you guys (the administration and Congress) to figure out how to do this. And that is where this is headed. And we look forward to working with Congress on this."
Prison isnt supposed to be fun. Its prison not f'in Disney Land. And dont start on the prisoners that are unjustly imprisoned. If the judicial system was tougher on criminals dont you think there would be less crime?
The best way to deter crime is to make the consequences horrible, or make everyone in society 100% equal.
I'm glad you all find Skin's visual rant funny. I think its tasteless. There's a lot of hate and intolerance in that message. Criticize Tank all you want, but Skin's no better when he crafts a message like that. Tank is, at least, attempting to have a serious discussion on a serious issue, regardless of whether or not you agree with his stance.
tyler
I don't think it was that bad. Funny you didn't say the same about this thread.
http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewto...light=rush+lim
The link didn't work Harvey. Care to repost or edit?Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyWallbangers
tyler