A beautiful post above - gets the thread back on track. Wow. Good work, Vince!
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A beautiful post above - gets the thread back on track. Wow. Good work, Vince!
Sort of makes we wonder if the rift between Favre and Packer Nation can ever be fixed. It's one thing for fans to get tired of a player they think has stayed too long. It's another thing for the player to be regarded by a large portion of the fans as Benedict Arnold.
In Chicago, Dick Butkus has a long rift with Bear management. It took more than 20 years for them to retire his number. However, Butkus' rift was with management. It was never with the fans, who remained loyal to Butkus.
This is different. Can't really think of another situation quite like it.
I don't really think it will ever be "fixed". His number will get retired, he'll go into the hall of fame (both NFL and GB), and that'll be it. The endorsement deals, speaking opportunities, and other things that would've been there won't return. I'm not so sure that's a bad thing either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemailman
If Rodgers wins a Super Bowl, and gets enshrined himself, he'll "Majikowski" Favre. A fitting irony, dontchathink?
Usually when you retire a player's number, there's a ceremony that goes with it. Will they have a ceremony with a possibility that half the crowd will boo? Will they just issue a press release saying Favre's number has been retired? Will Favre even want his number retired, especially if he finishes out his career with a Super Bowl win in Minnesota?
That was a great post. But it still illustrates the undeniable: Danny Ferry and Chris Grant didn't surround LeBron with the talent he needed to win. Just like Ted Thompson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz
THANKS DANNY
Look we can all say or do whatever, what favre did, lebron, it's just an example of something we all know but wish to dream it's not the case: Everyone is selfish, both in life and in their jobs.
One thing I think as fans we tend to forget about sports is that while we are doing our 40 hour a week jobs (usually more these days) and all that, kicking back on sunday watching football - these athletes are at work. They put in almost as much time into their job as we do every year, and there jobs, like ours, are kept based on performance, among several other factors.
Point is, was my heart torn from my chest in 2007? Sure, for a moment. That's before realization set in that hey, this is just a sport, and hey, this is what he does for a living. This is his job. If he wants to work elsewhere, who are we to stop him?
Point is that we let athletes, somehow, transend what normal human behavior is. You hear it all the time tehse days with people who meet favre, go out to his house - he's a great guy, fun to be around, and all that jazz, yet we sit back and blast him because hey, turns out he is human like everyone else and wants what is best for him.
Hey, aren't we the same way? Lets say I worked for oh, Walmart for 20 years. I was a store manager, heck, maybe even a supervisor of the entire walmart chain in a state. Best Buy comes along and offerse me a position of equal stature with more pay, and a better opportunity for advancement. Does Walmart think I betrayed them by quitting after 20 years and joining up at Best Buy? Not really. If I was "that valuable" - they would of bent over backwards to convince me not to leave. Instead, in general, they just let you go, realizing you made a personal decision for yourself alone. Life moves on, and people forget about it.
In sports, it's not easy to forget about anything - fans wont let that happen- but this is their job. This is what Favre, Lebron, and everyone else does for a living. I refuse to remain pissed off at a player for choosing (especially for lebron who wasn't even under contract and was a FA) to play elsewhere. They are human too, and as such, selfish.
We as fans need to stop putting players on a pedestal. All of us that are so heartbroken and pissed off are really our own issues, not #4's, and not Lebron. Say what you want, and abotu tbe "business" aspect - but this shit is their job. We get entertained by what they do.
They are people, no different then your neighbor, your kids, your spouse, your friends at work. Their job just happens to be sports.
If only it were that simple. A lot of the hate for Favre and Lebron is not based on the decisions they made, but moreso how they went about them. From Favre's media games and manipulating his way to Minnesota to Lebron scheduling an hour TV special in order to take a dump on Cleveland, they both acted like complete assholes.Quote:
Originally Posted by packerbacker1234
That would be the fairytale ending!Quote:
Originally Posted by retailguy
I like the Walmart analogy. The greeter at our local store has set himself up as a good ol' boy from the south - he "just wants to work," and when they don't want him anymore, he'll retire. He's a local hero for his dedication to Walmart and the folks are going to retire his employee number and give him a standing O whenever he returns to shop after retirement. He's never had a spot of hypocrisy - he's criticized other players over the years for not showing up for work training sessions, but has never missed one himself or asked for special treatment. You'd love his family too - they never ask for special favors or poison his attitude as well. He's set all the Wallmart attendance records and is a first ballot wall of famer. Plus the millions he's made gurantee his loyalty to the community owned and operated store. Sure it's all 'just a business,' but he goes that extra mile....
YES and ....watch out for 'the Lady'...She's due retailguy. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by retailguy
GO PACKERS!!
Hi Swede:Quote:
Originally Posted by swede
The HABS gave goalie Jaroslav Halak away for almost nothing. He was the heart and soul of that team. Most nights e carried the HABS.Alot of us Montreal Canadian fans really had a tough time with this trade to the St Louis Blues.
GO PACK GO!!
obviously no analogy is perfect, but it is a job.Quote:
Originally Posted by mraynrand
If the vikings are willing to, well, give special treatment for him, then that is their business decision.
We were never willing to really do that, and if the jets had him earlier they most likely wouldn't of either.
Point is, he made a selfish decision and proved he is human like everyone else. Why should I fault any person for making such a decision? We make those same decisions all the time.
They are both great players, and I enjoyed watching them. I loved watching favre play for the pack, even through his mistakes because every time he was on the field he appeared to have fun, which made me have fun. You may see some sort of crazy play you may never see again. With Lebron it's the same thing in my mind. He is a great player, and did a lot of great things for the cavs - but let me ask you - what do they owe anyone?
They are great at what they do, and I appreciate what they did for their teams. If they want to move on, why should I get all pissed about it? It's a sport, and players are always moving around. Just because he moved so late in his career thats suppose to be a surprise? I mean, even some of the other all time greats (Joe Montana) had to move on from "his team" when he could still play because they already replaced him. Sure, favre retired and unretired (not unlike several other nfl players), but he was already replaced. Life moves on.
For lebron, I think is case is even MORE forgiving, for the simple fact that hey, he was a FA. What reason did he have to go back to the cavs who in 7 seasons never had enough to win the finals? Point is, people are selfish and I wont magically hate a guy because I was fooled into thinking x player was different. When you break it down, they are human. I appreciate what they do on the court/field and I will still enjoy some of what they do on the field/court, just maybe not as much. Like favre, I never want the vikings to really go anywhere, even if I still enjoy watching favre play. Things like that throw and amazing catch with Greg Lewis - stuff like that just seems to happen when favre is on your team. In the same breath, the int at the saints happens as well. Good and the bad. He is a fun player to watch, so is AP, but I still don't want their team to do well.
For lebron, I was never a big cavs fan, but I did enjoy watching him play, and I think I will still enjoy watching him play in Miami. I mean, if he was on the bucks and left, would I be more upset? Sure, but I wouldn't blame him. If we never gave him enough to win it all, why should he want to stick around. Guy wants multiple rings, and that is understandable.
I mean, look at MLB and Prince Fielder. We are either trading him this year, trading him next year, or letting him go after next season. Guy is considered one of the faces of the brewers, but because he and his agent selfishly want insane amounts of money, we can't keep him around.
Are we really all that upset at Fielder? The general consensus seems to be no. It really the same scenario. I think it was just upsetting to the us as pack fans because no one saw it coming, and to the cav fans because "he is home grown, so he must stay".
The fact he ever landed with the cavs via the draft was pure luck to begin with.
My take on the LeBron/Favre nexus:
There is a finite amount of emotional energy in the world nearly in balance between joy and anguish. What sucks for Cleveland rocks for Miami. Embrace the anger, effuse the joy, or cling resolutely to the balanced center.
Continuing the Walmart analogy . . . The employee would have to join Best Buy and in the mean time, call Target and give them tips on what where the 'price rollbacks' were going to be and how to undercut them. He would have to contact news reporters and bad-mouth Walmart. Complain about his working conditions and that they never surrounded him with the right cashiers. And when you requested a specific stock boy to be hired, management didn't act on it.
I believe the thing that upsets fans the most about Favre is that he fooled us. I personally thought he was this humble decent loyal person with little ego. Turns out he was not that person. I don't mind him playing for another team, it was the contacting other teams with tips on how to beat the Packers. It was the comment that he wanted to stick it to TT (and by this I take that as sticking it to the Packers) that is why he wanted to go to the Vikings. I don't hate him, and maybe some day I will appreciate him once again, but for now - not so much. If the Packers win a SB while he is still playing and the Vikings don't - that will go a long way towards mending the fences.
Part of the stupid amount of money superstars make can be considered hazardous duty pay. They have to put up with ridiculously unrealistic fans.
I've never understood how people can make blanket statements like "If he doesn't win a championship this year, he's a failure. Even in individual sports that's a nutty thing to say. But in team sports, even more so. Was Ernie Banks a failure because the Cubbies never won a championship when he was with them? How is it his fault that the Cub management couldn't get the right mix there? And then there's luck, too.
As much as I enjoyed Favre throwing that pick in the Saints game, the loss is not all his fault. AP fumbled a bunch, I think, and maybe some special teams guy missed a block in the first quarter that would've sprung the returner for a touchdown.
Then what was 2007?? Thompson surrounded #4 with enough talent to get to the conference championship game. Unfortunately yet another boneheaded INT by #4 prevented his team from the Promised Land.Quote:
Originally Posted by mraynrand
But as you said, LeBron was a FA and #4 was not and was under contract for 2 more seasons before his teary PC. Favre didn't have the freedom to play wherever he wanted to like LaBron did. Favre was the one who dragged out that soap opera that summer. All he had to do was file for reinstatement and he would then be traded. Of course Favre wanted to be traded to MN but TT wasn't about to give a divisional rival the one piece of the puzzle they needed. I truly believe Favre dragged his feet in the hopes the PR nightmare would induce TT to give him his unconditional release. When it was obvious that wasn't gonna happen he filed his papers and was traded OUT of NFC to the Jets soon afterward.Quote:
Originally Posted by packerbacker1234
Neighbours didn't come over to make sure everything was alright with all the yelling and screaming that went on over here when I heard that announcement. No siree :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by woodbuck27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugger
You missed my sarcasm. I meant literally that Ted Thompson failed to surround Lebron with the talent he needed to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugger
THANKSTED