He was terrible the last 5 games. Would be ironic if he hurt his throwing shoulder late in the year--just like Aaron Rodgers did early in the year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bretsky
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He was terrible the last 5 games. Would be ironic if he hurt his throwing shoulder late in the year--just like Aaron Rodgers did early in the year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bretsky
No the numbers are not skewed. They are what they are. By taking the last five games of every year for four years you dilute the significance of any one particularly good or particularly bad game, and you get an indication of his performance over the last third of the season. Quite simply he has not performed well at the end of any season in the last 4. Even his best year, 2007 was not very good for a 5 game stretch. Has every game been awful? of course not, but over all he has not performed well in the final 5 games for 4 consecutive seasons. Looking at 5 games is not a small sample for a 16 game season, and the trend is steady over a 4 year period, each having more interceptions than TDs, and the TDs being less than one would expect over nearly 1/3 of the season. Just as important is the fact that his performance tails off when you may need it the most.Quote:
Originally Posted by packerbacker1234
I think you are wrong about 2005. He did play well at the start. He had 14 TDs and 8 interceptions through the first 6 games, and if I remember corrrectly was tied for the lead in TD passes. He had 6 TDs and 21 interceptions over the last 10 games.
I could dismiss one season as just one of those things, but it has been every season for four seasons, some not as bad as others, but none good. Over 20 games covering 4 seasons he has 13 TDs and 34 interceptions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyWallbangers
oh pfooey; that's all I'm giving cause I've blacked out the last five weeks
On a side note, we got a Wiii for Xmas and I must let you know I am not doing well at bowling sober; I think you could take me the way I've bowled lately
Yup, I remember us agreeing on this last summer, and I was waiting to see if the trend continued in 2008. Again, he started hot, lead the league in TDs, was close to the lead for the first half season and tailed off after that. It is hard to argue that his performance in 20 games over a 4 year period, with just 13 TDs and 34 interceptions is not indicative of something. Even if you throw out the worst game of the 5 games each season, his numbers still are not good.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyWallbangers
More talented? Our team was extremely talented. I don't buy that for a second.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz
The four year look is eye opening to be sure, but I'm not sure how much I buy it. This year he is obviously hurt. 2005 was bad all around. the 2007 could show a bad trend, but he played lights out against Seattle so that sort of bucks that.
2006, the 8-8 year seems like an anomaly.
A trend is established by the combination of many games over a long period. A single particularly good game or particularly bad game does not refute or prove the trend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Partial
Maybe he is hurt this year. Maybe there were reasons for 2005, '06 and '07 too, but that is all part of it. His "old" body doesn't perform as well at the end of the seasons as at the beginnings. You can make all the justifications you want, in the end he threw the TD passes and he threw the interceptions.
20 games equally selected as the last 5 of each season for 4 seasons is certainly enough to demonstrate a trend, and 13/34 is pretty decisive. As I said before, even if you throw out his worst game of the 5 every season, his numbers still are not good. Sure within the end of a season he has some good games, but they don't match the bad and his overall results at the ends of seasons are not good.
Some great quotes in this article:
The New York Jets' other big decision: Favre
by Dave Hutchinson/The Star-Ledger
Monday December 29, 2008, 8:32 PM
Tim Farrell/The Star-Ledger
Jets quarterback Brett Favre yanks off his chin strap in disgust after throwing an interception late in the second half Sunday. Two months ago Eric Mangini named his son Zach Brett. Do you think he might want to change it now?
While the Jets decided to fire Mangini Monday after three seasons, team owner Woody Johnson made a plea to have 39-year-old quarterback Brett Favre return next season despite an error-laden, uneven performance down the stretch that was as indicative of the Jets' collapse as anything else.
"I hope so," Johnson said Monday when asked if he expected Favre back for a second season with the Jets.
When it was pointed out how Favre struggled down the stretch -- the future Hall of Famer threw just two touchdowns and was intercepted nine times during the Jets' 1-4 finish -- Johnson quickly dismissed it.
"I think Brett Favre was a huge positive net for this franchise," he said.
Perhaps it's all the attention and glamour that Favre has brought to the organization, not to mention the number of jerseys he has sold.
Some of Favre's teammates, however, were less enthused about the idea of the quarterback coming back, and several players privately pointed to Favre -- and his league-high 22 interceptions -- as the reason for the team's demise and Mangini's firing.
"All the money they spent on bringing in players, the new stadium and the quarterback," said one player when asked why he thinks Mangini was fired.
Said another player: "It's the quarterback throwing the ball all over the place. And he didn't suffer any repercussions. He kept doing it. People said Eric called him out in meetings; I didn't see it. Eric treated him like he was Brett Favre. A lot of guys didn't like it."
Favre, who has two years left on his contract at $13 million and $14 million respectively, was not seen at the Jets' training facility in Florham Park Monday, and there was no word about an MRI on his right shoulder that he had said was scheduled for Monday.
General manager Mike Tannenbaum said he talked with Favre Monday and told him to go home and think about what he wants to do. He didn't give Favre a timetable for when he needs to make a decision about whether or not to play in 2009.
Tannenbaum was also noncommittal on whether he needed a decision from Favre before hiring a coach.
"To me, the natural course of events is to get the head coach in place, fill the staff," he said. "And we've got to address all the roster issues. Obviously Brett is prominent, but there's other important roster decisions we need to make."
And after saying last week that he wanted to make a quick decision, Favre backpedaled after Sunday's season-ending loss to the Dolphins.
"The obvious choice would be a quick decision based on what happened" in the Miami game, he said. "It's a hasty, irrational decision based on what's happened. I'll go home and get away for a week or so ... and make the right decision."
If Favre needs surgery, the decision could impact whether he returns for a 19th NFL season. A long rehabilitation period could be a deterrent.
"I would love to see him back next year," said wide receiver Jerricho Cotchery. "Whatever he decides, I feel like he still has some great football left in him. He wasn't able to spend the offseason program with the team, so I definitely think that plays a role into it."
That, however, is part of the complexity in dealing with Favre these days. An extended decision-making period might result in Favre missing offseason workouts.
"I support him," wide receiver Laveranues Coles said. "We exchanged numbers. I know a lot of people always had a lot to say about our relationship. It has been great. We've never had any problem.
"We'll stay in touch during the offseason. I may even shoot over to the crib and we'll go hunting if we get a chance."
The Jets collapse was remarkable. They were 8-3 and had just gone into Tenn and kicked the hell out of 'em. The Jets got a lot better in the off-season, but they also got a lot older. Several of their FA acquisitions wore down in the late going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bretsky
Kris Jenkins and some of the other older guys were shadows of their former selves after that mid season win.
Wearing down and getting hurt are a part of getting older. By the end of the season, the Jets were one of the league's weaker teams. The NY's were on top of the mountain in Nashville, but crashed to earth by season's end.
I think Mangini was basically a dick, but he won 5 more games than last season and got 'em over .500. Should the play-offs have been a given? That team only won 4 games last year.
The mangenius more than doubled their win total and got 'em over .500. That got him fired, but it couldn't have happened to a "nicer" guy
It's understandable that the Jets want to get the coach in place and then think more about personnel.
But I'm shocked the Jets management made the same mistakes the Packers did the last 2 years - no timetable, etc.
If Favre doesn't make a quick call (let's say the MRI is inconclusive or surgery isn't needed), the Jets fans, media, etc will be tearing this decision to pieces.
Favre in TC may help some with general knowledge of the system. But as I mentioned a few times here in the offseason, I think you let Brett play the first half the season and if he starts down the same path as the last 3-4 years (tailing off), then you have a backup ready. If this was true (training camp), wouldn't his performance have sucked the first half and gotten better the second half?
He'll be 40 next year... I hope that's the shocker that makes him think about coming back.
Lot's of similar quotes in the Daily News article which reveals Brett had a MRI this season.
Essentially, last year Brett got himself out of going to camp.
And, it hurt his team.
Some of the guys want to see him put in the work they have to do.
(Quote on)
Brett Favre had MRI earlier
BY OHM YOUNGMISUK
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER
Brett Favre doesn't make an appearance in the locker room on Monday.
Woody Johnson didn't want Eric Mangini anymore. But the Jets owner wants to keep his future Hall of Fame quarterback around for another year.
Brett Favre, who was at team headquarters but did not talk to reporters Monday, said on Sunday that he was going to have an MRI on his right shoulder Monday that could impact his decision whether to retire.
But the Daily News has learned that Favre had an MRI earlier in the season and did not have one Monday. The earlier MRI didn't reveal any major damage, although it seems likely something is wrong since Favre said his right arm has been bothering him. He aggravated the problem during Sunday's 24-17 loss to the Dolphins.
The Jets refused to confirm if Favre was going to have a second MRI and Johnson said he didn't know if he was getting one.
The owner did say with conviction that he welcomes the 39-year-old back for another season. Initially, moments after the quarterback had thrown three of his league-high 22 interceptions on Sunday, Johnson said the Jets would have to look into the Favre issue.
Monday, both Johnson and GM Mike Tannenbaum said they want Favre back. Clearly, the Jets are not going to be like the Packers and go through an offseason of drama such as the one that unfolded last summer between Packers GM Ted Thompson and Favre.
"I just think he adds a lot to the team that's positive," Johnson said Monday after announcing Mangini's firing. "I think Brett was a huge positive net-net for this franchise. We don't like to lose any game. But Brett has added a lot. It's 53 players on the varsity that are responsible. It's not just Brett."
While players said they want Favre back, many made it clear they want him to go through an entire offseason program with the team to avoid another maddeningly inconsistent season.
"If he is dedicated and he wants to come back and do this thing, do it the right way and come here, training camp and minicamp, working out with us, I'm fine with it," said safety Kerry Rhodes. "But don't come back if it is going to be half-hearted or if he doesn't want to put in the time with us. You have to build a team through the offseason, not just coming in later in the season. I know he didn't have any control over it this year.
"There is no resentment," Rhodes added. "But if he wants to come back next year and put in the time to help this team win, he needs to be here with the team."
After Favre's messy divorce with the Packers, the quarterback was traded on Aug. 6. He struggled to learn a new system and adapt to his receivers. Favre also didn't have a full offseason of training since he was retired, and that may have contributed to the Jets' demise.
"When he got here, we had to change everything," said offensive lineman Damien Woody. "We were doing things on the fly for a long time. In the end, it caught up with us. Thirty-nine years old, playing in the NFL ... I'm sure he wore down. I'd like to see what he would be like going through an entire offseason."
Jerricho Cotchery and Laveranues Coles, Favre's top receivers, both said they would like to have an entire offseason with the QB. "You gain chemistry in the offseason program," Cotchery said.
Favre said on Sunday his decision whether to play a 19th season would be impacted by the health of his arm and his desire to go through another long campaign.
As for his former coach, Favre shot down a report on Sunday that said he didn't enjoy playing for Mangini, who newborn son's middle name is Brett in tribute. Johnson and Tannenbaum said no players had been consulted in their decision to fire Mangini. And it sounded as if they want to hire a coach before dealing with Favre's future.
(Quote off)
This could be a wild one, kids.
I miss him.
But Im sure as hell happy we don't have to deal with the 'will he or wont he retire'
'Hes retired..but will he unretire?' Talk.
Favre has had some problem with his shoulder all season, he was sore coming out of training camp. What would you expect from a 39-year-old who is not in top shape?Quote:
Originally Posted by KYPack
Yet we didn't hear about the shoulder when his team was flying high.
I think Favre has reverted to drama queen mode. His quote to the media:
"It hurts in the back [of the shoulder], hurts down in the biceps and, occasionally, in my neck," Favre said. "Other than that, it's fine."
Then he says that his retirement will hinge completely on the results of this latest MRI, thus highlighting the importance of his condition. Give me a break. So now his poor performance can be blamed completely on a bad shoulder.
I am so glad the Packers don't have to be at the center of this continuing drama anymore. I think the team that came out the best from last fall's saga was the Vikings. Talk about dodging a bullet.
If you want a valid explanation of why he threw so many interceptions at the end of the season, do a brain scan, not a shoulder MRI. You watched the last game, despite his shoulder problem, Favre was still able to throw the ball a lot farther and harder than Chad Pennington. The interceptions were mental errors.
This year we all relax and watch the show from the bleachers.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcilite
It will be easier this way.
:drma:
If Favre thought he was under pressure last offseason from MM and TT and whether or not to retire he will be under a lot more pressure in the next couple months to make a decision on whether or not to play. It's Favre's crappy performance that cost Mangini his job. Favre should appreciate the amount of time he was given by TT in past years to make his annual "to play or not to play" decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcilite
Yeah........I think that's a statement we could get a concensus on.
You sure you wanna relax? I could start a "Will Aaron come back for one more year?" thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by KYPack
This just in... Aaron Rodgers has decided he WILL report to MC as the starting QB next season. No need to start a thread about it. We'll just post it in the Brett Favre thread. Seems fitting.Quote:
Originally Posted by BallHawk
though I consider some of the sourcing to ESPN fairly dubious, they are reporting Favre had a torn biceps tendon and some calcification in the area.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3800421
According to the article "Favre is expected to deliberate for several weeks". How long is several? Think we'll hear from him before March?Quote:
Originally Posted by digitaldean