Representation without Taxation
If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?
According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.
Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.
How is it again that you cook a frog?
Re: Representation without Taxation
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoark
If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?
According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.
Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.
How is it again that you cook a frog?
What/who makes up the ones that are not paying taxes?
Re: Representation without Taxation
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoark
If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?
According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.
Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.
How is it again that you cook a frog?
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2007/...come-tax-data/
As of 2006 42.4% of households were not paying. According to that article in 1990 it was about 30%. Just curious as to where your info is coming from.
Re: Representation without Taxation
Quote:
Originally Posted by packinpatland
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoark
If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?
According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.
Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.
How is it again that you cook a frog?
What/who makes up the ones that are not paying taxes?
The "Ones" that we have been waiting for.
Re: Representation without Taxation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesehead Craig
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoark
If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?
According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.
Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.
How is it again that you cook a frog?
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2007/...come-tax-data/
As of 2006 42.4% of households were not paying. According to that article in 1990 it was about 30%. Just curious as to where your info is coming from.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/
Re: Representation without Taxation
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoark
Quote:
Originally Posted by packinpatland
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoark
If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?
According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.
Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.
How is it again that you cook a frog?
What/who makes up the ones that are not paying taxes?
The "Ones" that we have been waiting for.
I am seriously trying to understand this. If you're not paying taxes, then you must not be employed. Or you're wealthy enough to afford loopholes.
Which is it?
Re: Representation without Taxation
Quote:
Originally Posted by packinpatland
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoark
Quote:
Originally Posted by packinpatland
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoark
If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?
According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.
Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.
How is it again that you cook a frog?
What/who makes up the ones that are not paying taxes?
The "Ones" that we have been waiting for.
I am seriously trying to understand this. If you're not paying taxes, then you must not be employed. Or you're wealthy enough to afford loopholes.
Which is it?
I'm serious too. At the lower ends, through "tax credits" etc., individuals do NOT pay taxes. This is what we have been trying to say for weeks in this forum.
It's the essence of "redistribution."
The wealthy always pay more than their "fair" share. It's all numbers. You could make an argument that some hedge fund managers are paid in dividends (at 15%) instead of Ordinary Income.....but that type of issue is NEVER brought up. It's always just simply "it ain't fair" those poeple are rich.
Re: Representation without Taxation
Quote:
Originally Posted by packinpatland
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoark
Quote:
Originally Posted by packinpatland
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoark
If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?
According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.
Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.
How is it again that you cook a frog?
What/who makes up the ones that are not paying taxes?
The "Ones" that we have been waiting for.
I am seriously trying to understand this. If you're not paying taxes, then you must not be employed. Or you're wealthy enough to afford loopholes.
Which is it?
http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=14864
Re: Representation without Taxation
Quote:
Originally Posted by packinpatland
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoark
Quote:
Originally Posted by packinpatland
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoark
If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?
According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.
Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.
How is it again that you cook a frog?
What/who makes up the ones that are not paying taxes?
The "Ones" that we have been waiting for.
I am seriously trying to understand this. If you're not paying taxes, then you must not be employed. Or you're wealthy enough to afford loopholes.
Which is it?
This funny, either you have to have no job, or you're too wealthy to pay taxes. When was the last time that you did your taxes? Maybe you should pay more attention, because I certainly haven't paid taxes for the last 4 years and last year my wife was actually working as an attorney.
I would get a better accountant if I was you.
Re: Representation without Taxation
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoark
I'm serious too. At the lower ends, through "tax credits" etc., individuals do NOT pay taxes. This is what we have been trying to say for weeks in this forum.
It's the essence of "redistribution".
So you think the working poor are not pulling their weight.
Have you ever talked to ANYBODY who is getting-by working low wage jobs?
I don't doubt that they pay little or no federal income taxes, although you neglect that they pay a huge percentage of their income on social security tax compared to people who have investment income.
Our economy is built on exploitation of people. Just look around you. So many people are working at jobs that require long hours to provide a bare subsistance living for one person, and can't possibly support a family. Often with no benefits.
Income is not being redistributed to the working poor. They are being allowed to keep enough money to survive so they can continue to serve you. And if they get seriously injured or ill, they are permanently indebted and fucked for this lifetime.
Re: Representation without Taxation
Quote:
Originally Posted by packinpatland
I am seriously trying to understand this. If you're not paying taxes, then you must not be employed. Or you're wealthy enough to afford loopholes.
Which is it?
*SIGH*
People earning the lowest incomes pay no taxes. Under the Bush tax cuts - that were for EVERY INCOME LEVEL, anywhere from 3-10 million people were taken off the tax rolls. The bottom tax bracket went from 15% to 10% tax rate on income. The richest income earners got a tax cut, but because the economy expanded and income increased for almost everyone, high income earners increased their income, and they ended up paying MORE taxes than before AT THE LOWER TAX RATE. This tax cut policy worked under Coolidge, Kennedy, Reagan, and Bush. Obama is going to reverse the tax cuts for the top income earners and give the money directly - in the form of a check - to those who don't pay any federal income tax.
Answer this question: If you pay zero tax on your income, is it in your interest to increase taxes or decrease them? If you will be getting a check due to increased taxes and getting more public services due to increased taxes, will you support the candidate promising to increase taxes, or the one proposing to decrease taxes?
Answer this question: Do higher taxes on businesses promote business expansion or discourage expansion? If taxes on businesses in the U.S. are higher than overseas, where would you choose to place your company if all other things are relatively equal - in a country with higher taxes or lower taxes? What happens to U.S. jobs when companies go overseas?
Re: Representation without Taxation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoark
I'm serious too. At the lower ends, through "tax credits" etc., individuals do NOT pay taxes. This is what we have been trying to say for weeks in this forum.
It's the essence of "redistribution".
So you think the working poor are not pulling their weight.
Have you ever talked to ANYBODY who is getting-by working low wage jobs?
I don't doubt that they pay little or no federal income taxes, although you neglect that they pay a huge percentage of their income on social security tax compared to people who have investment income.
Our economy is built on exploitation of people. Just look around you. So many people are working at jobs that require long hours to provide a bare subsistance living for one person, and can't possibly support a family. Often with no benefits.
Income is not being redistributed to the working poor. They are being allowed to keep enough money to survive so they can continue to serve you. And if they get seriously injured or ill, they are permanently indebted and fucked for this lifetime.
different debate
Re: Representation without Taxation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby
Just look around you. So many people are working at jobs that require long hours to provide a bare subsistance living for one person, and can't possibly support a family. Often with no benefits
How many? How old are they? How long have they been in those jobs? Will they be in those jobs forever? Why are they in those jobs? What will happen to those jobs when the taxes on their employers go up?
Re: Representation without Taxation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deputy Nutz
I certainly haven't paid taxes for the last 4 years and last year my wife was actually working as an attorney..
I notified the IRS.
Re: Representation without Taxation
Quote:
Originally Posted by mraynrand
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby
Just look around you. So many people are working at jobs that require long hours to provide a bare subsistance living for one person, and can't possibly support a family. Often with no benefits
How many? How old are they? How long have they been in those jobs? Will they be in those jobs forever? Why are they in those jobs? What will happen to those jobs when the taxes on their employers go up?
These questions are best answered by life experience, or at least talking to people, rather than theories about taxes and invisible hands and shrugging atlases.
Re: Representation without Taxation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby
Just look around you. So many people are working at jobs that require long hours to provide a bare subsistance living
http://wirelessdigest.typepad.com/ph...usegarth_1.jpg
Long hours! Bare subsistence! No benefits! No retirement! No vacation days! Low wages! No health care!
Re: Representation without Taxation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby
Quote:
Originally Posted by mraynrand
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby
Just look around you. So many people are working at jobs that require long hours to provide a bare subsistance living for one person, and can't possibly support a family. Often with no benefits
How many? How old are they? How long have they been in those jobs? Will they be in those jobs forever? Why are they in those jobs? What will happen to those jobs when the taxes on their employers go up?
These questions are best answered by life experience, or at least talking to people, rather than theories about taxes and invisible hands and shrugging atlases.
Well, then answer them. You seem to be in the know.