Time for a dam poll
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Time for a dam poll
Positive, experienced. But not the best fit for a Thompson GM'd team. Need someone who has, and will run, almost any defense because you don't know what body type Thompson is going to hit upon. He has adjusted to having man corners and his secondary has pulled itself together with a functional 2nd safety.
If they gave him another ILB besides Matthews, it would be nice to see. McCarthy has obviously tried to push him in that direction and the players claim there is stuff they haven't trotted out yet. NE game would be an obvious one for something new.
I'd rate the coach a B, his fit with personnel a D and his overall effort a C.
I was trying to do one of these dam polly things...so now...go cast your vote !!
Over rated IMO
I roll my eyes and chuckle everytime the camera switches to him and the knobs on tv talk about what a "guru" he is
He may have been a defensive guru at one time, but the rest of the league has figured him out
Average at best DC at this point, and not a fit for the system that TT drafts and builds for
I am somewhere between the first and second answer. I selected the first because i do not think he does a good job with the talent given
I voted that he's a moron but would have preferred middle ground options on either side of the middle ground.
I trust wist43's observations. :-)
I think he's a really good dc. Glad we have him.
I think he's pretty average. We don't have a lot of blue chip players on this defense, frankly. And too many of our first round picks can't stay on the field so it is hard to judge completely.
From my armchair point of view, Capers is great at what he does, but what he does is too often average or below average.
His emphasis on linebackers over defensive linemen changed the defensive culture in Green Bay and I'm not too comfortable with that. Capers system relies on scheme to put his LB's in a position to make big plays and, to his credit, the Packers are getting turnovers again.
However, Capers' intensive scheming requires complication and communication, the breakdown of which often leads to big plays by the opposition. Capers system also requires LB's with athleticism and speed. But these types of players are often injured (Mathews, Perry, Neal, Mulumba, Palmer, etc.) leaving more rugged but less gifted athletes (Hawk, Brad Jones) to pick up the slack. Moreover, Capers' schemes may confuse and disrupt mediocre QB's, but elite QB's can figure them out (if given time in the pocket).
In the past the Packers have relied on big, rugged defensive lineman (White, Dotson, Brown, and in 2010 Howard Green, Cullen Jenkins and Ryan Pickett) to create penetration and inside pressure. I'm more comfortable with that, the style of defense in Detroit and St. Louis, the type the NY Giants had a few years ago. All elite QB's have to do to neutralize Capers' scheming is to use their smarts. It's hard for an elite QB to do that if he's getting forced out of the pocket by heavy pressure up the middle from big, defensive linemen.
In Capers defense, Raji is injured and several promising defensive linemen are/were injured or are hampered by inexperience (Jones, Thornton, Pennel). But so long as Capers is here, the emphasis will remain on LB's not the DL. That might be reason enough for me to change coordinators.
Imagine if the Packers had Detroit's DL and our secondary. The effectiveness of the defense wouldn't hinge on a Peppers or a Mathews being a superstar at LB. You'd be OK with more average guys like Mulumba and Elliot, maybe even Hawk and Brad Jones.
In the offseason when Wist was not around I was often the most critical poster in here of much of our squad....so besides Wist being an awesome poster that was the other reason I'm always glad when he comes back.
But I've never bought into Wistology; he pounds that point home over and over and over and I think some in here have embraced it....perhaps a Packerrats Cult :)
I think Dom is very average. I think he has obvious weaknesses on that defense and gets as much out of them as most other DC's would.
With my view, I think there should be just as many people voting for the Dominator as there are for Domdummy but most should just fall into the middle.
When we lose it seems like Dom gets no credit at all when the defense excels
When we win it seems like the Dom gets all the blame when it does not
When the Packers finally found a defense in the late 80s with Infante (his second year only) and then Ray Rhodes arrived with Holmgren, the Packers were running a 3-4.
Prior to the Super Bowl year with Shurmur's 4-3 Under, Rhodes had some of the best Packer defenses since Lombardi I believe. This happened before the Browns vacated their ancestral home, so I could easily be dead wrong but I think that is the gist of it. Of course all this followed some of the worst defensive play man has ever seen in the 1980s.
Its not scheme as much as personnel with the Packers. Ted has not hit as many triples on D as he has on O.
I'll be the first to agree it's players that make the difference and not the smarts of the Defensive Coach.
However, defensive philosophy sure makes a difference as to what kind/type of players TT drafts. We've been drafting highly rated OLB's and lower rated defensive linemen IMO.
I'd kill for a Ngata or a Suh in the middle of our DL.
I think there is talent there, but it isn't being maximized and that's on the coaching staff and the coordinator.
I'm not THAT glad we have him, but I agree that Capers' a good DC.
The Packers have worthless fat turds on the DL and worthless fucks at ILB. Last season, Capers coached a bunch of worthless she-male safeties. Last time I checked, and I checked a second ago, Capers' job title was Defensive Coordinator - not Executive V.P., General Manager & Director of Football Operations.
I would have voted for 'marginal, but not a dumpster fire' but settled for the middle option.
I voted for firing. I just don't trust him. My biggest complaint has always been that if plan A isn't working, there doesn't seem to be a plan B. So it's his lack of in-game adjustments when things are going badly is what I am most frustrated with.
he's good. i think the scouting dept needs upgrading though.
If you can have an effective unit only when you have the best players, you aren't a very good coordinator. By effective, I mean middle of the league.
A good coordinator is one who adapts to the players he has and and finds ways to make them effective even if they aren't a "best in the league" type of unit.
Packer defenses have not been merely ineffective, often they have been awful. A good coordinator avoids being awful even with a lot of mediocre players. Face it, due to roster turnover, injuries and what have you, the Packers have had poor O-lines at times, poor running backs and inexperienced WRs at times. Yet, their offense has found ways to remain effective.
I was among those who were concerned with Capers' history. He seemed to field top 10 type defenses for 2-3 years wherever he went, then faded badly. With all the film available to NFL teams, I'm not sure why that would be, but it is.
Not sure I buy into all of that completely Patler.
What our defense does not have is Aaron Rodgers; he really masks weaknesses everywhere..being the best qb in the nfl at the most important position.
But I really think the offense parts around Rodgers are also stronger, personnel wise, than the defensive parts around Clay. I think Ted has done a better job filling out the offensive talent than on defense.
Thompson did find two guys who sort of fit the Rodgers bill: Collins and Woodson.
Matthews, for all the love and hype, just is not a dominant enough pass rusher to single-handedly change an offense. Maybe you need 2-3 of them on D rather than just the one at QB for Offense.
I won't dispute that Rodgers makes a lot of difference, BUT a QB alone is limited. I'm not convinced that the offense has had all that much more talent top to bottom than the defense has had. They've just performed better as a unit. MM has maximized the effectiveness of Rodgers and Favre before him even when they had no running game, even when the depth at WR was/is limited due to injuries and roster turnover, even when they have had little at TE because Finley was out, and even when the O-line struggled.
Has Capers maximized the effectiveness of Matthews? Raji? Anyone other than Woodson in 2010? Have the defensive players been that much worse and/or more limited than Newhouse, Saturday, EDS (who I think was a lot worse than his reputation), Kuhn, Quarless, Alex Green, Crabtree, DJ Williams, Boykin, Benson, Barclay and a host of others that the offense has had to rely on at times?
The offense probably has been a somewhat more talented than the defense, but so much so to justify the difference of the offense being one of the best in the league, and the defense one of the worst? I don't think so.
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Good post. But the difference is the QB. Not many defensive players can have the kind of impact of a QB who is one of the top three QBs in the league.
Capers is decent, not great, and like so many coaches, looks so much better with great experienced talent. Can't deny that Packer struck gold in 2010 with Collins, Woodson, Matthews, Williams, and Raji all playing at a high level, plus guys like Pickett, Jenkins, Shields, and Bishop all playing well down the stretch. 2014 could see the same thing if Daniels, Peppers, Matthews, Burnett, and Shields could play like pro bowlers and others could play well consistently down the stretch. It has to start gelling pretty damn soon though...
This is the question I keep coming back to but I get to the opposite conclusion (which is why I don't favor summarily firing him).
Since 2010, rank of Defense on Points Allowed
2011 - 19th
2012 - 11th
2013 - 24th
2014 - 15th
OK, ranks and yearly totals leave a lot of things out, so how about more advanced metrics?
Football Outsiders
2011 - 25th
2012 - 8th
2013 - 31st
2014 - 12th
Just for comparison's sake, Bob Sanders was fired after finishing 22nd in PA and 12th at Football Outsiders. There is a lot of bend but don't break in Capers D, especially the two worst years. Yardage ranks are lower than points allowed.
I voted average and my reasoning is as follows. When is the last time we had a truly dominant DL? Raji or Jenkins during the SB run? Even the years that we've had a decent DL it's always been a mix of run pluggers (Jolly/Jenkins) and pass rushers (Daniels). Not enough balanced/2 way players. I don't even need to discuss the LB situation. It's been a revolving door opposite CM3 and the ILB's need a serious upgrade.
Maybe it was injuries forcing Dom's hand, but he hasn't been this creative (2014) since 2010 when he ran the Woodson 2-4 all year. And it's been effective.
We've basically been harping on him for the 2011, 2012, and 2013 defensive failings. But don't those coincide with waaay too many injuries? HHCD may have finally filled Collins' spot (not the same skill, but far from an embarrassment), and that needed filling. Plus Hyde, Hayward, Daniels, etc.
Health is a big factor here and it was last year in reverse fashion. Only Perry and maybe Hawk were limited yesterday.
So dunderdummy has put together 2 decent games in the last 4... makes me wonder what his motivation is - such as, are TT and MM holding his family hostage and actually forcing him to do his job??
Doing his job for the sake of doing his job doesn't make sense, b/c afterall - he is dunderdummy. Have to assume he's got a gun to his head in some way ;)
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Haven't looked at the game yet though... saw some of the 4th quarter - I turned it on, and the first 5 plays I saw were NE ramming it down our throats for 50+ yds and a TD, lol...
My brother sent me a text about 1/2 way thru the 2nd quarter and said, "... here comes the 2-4, gonna get ugly now"; and then 3 minutes later, he texted, "... NE TD".
Still, the stats look good, and they kept the score down... Neal's sack near the end saved the day - great play by Neal. I'll look at the game tomorrow.
liked the barrington move.
I don't agree with this. If anything Dom relies too much on getting the most out of one or two superstars. He's produced 3 DPOY which is way more than his fair share plus had Clay as a finalist in 2010. The issues seem come when the guy you built your system around goes down.
Also its not fair to compare the offense and defense that way. By nature of offense you're imposing your will and know what's coming which makes it way easier to hide a weak player. Defense is always reacting so a weak link on defense is a much bigger liability.
I think Dom is better than his defense's rankings the last few years and worse than his league reputation as a genius innovator.
I'd say Dom's biggest flaw is how he hides (or rather fails to hide) deficiencies. He can do good things with a couple of stars and the rest solid if unspectacular, but when there is a hole, it doesn't get covered well. It seems other defenses get by with a limited player on defense better than the Packers.
Last year they had a hole at safety and the defense was a mess. This year started with holes at NT and ILB. Guion improved to shore up the line, but Jones and Hawk were weak links and the defense was bleeding yards. Now that they are on the bench most of the time, the defense looks much better. Yes they failed at some tackles yesterday, but I won't put Bell or Gronk running over people on Dom. I'll take 320 yards and 21 points against NE any time (even in February).
Bottom line is that I would put Dom as an above average DC for his scheming abilities. He is not outstanding because he can't cover up weaker players.
I came in here thinking even flippin wist has to give him credit for this game. Dom was Domgenius against NE and from what I can see he didn't bracket coverage Gronk at all...and no Gronk didn't get an infinite number of TD's. You can't lose...when the D sux it's all on Dom and when they are great it's the players.
GB has been a better defense since Clay moved to ILB and Dom no longer looks crippled by the pathetic safety play he's had the past few years. This is the first year in a while he has a chance.
I give credit to dunderdummy for doing what he should have been doing for at least the 3+ years - that doesn't buy him a pass for all of the misery he is responsible for visiting upon us in that time.
As I've said for a few years now - I like the players, and think we can have at least an effective defense if they are used properly. Obviously we have not had an effective defense for the last 3+ years - and since it seems obvious to me we have a decent amount of talent, doesn't it stand to reason that our failings then would have to be dunderdummy's doing??
He is using the players the way I've stated they needed to be used, and we are realizing some success. He may not have bracketed Gronk (I don't know, I'll have to look at the game - plan to watch it with my brother tomorrow), but he's played the front 6/7 the way I've been calling for, and the results have been much, much better.
To me it's common sense - if you're more talented at DL than you are LB; and if your greatest weakness on defense is at ILB - why in heavens name would anyone design a defense to ensure that those weaknesses are on the field full-time, while the more talented players languish on the sideline?? To me, it was obvious that they needed to go to the 3-3 a long time ago.
WHO have our safeties been and our ILB's been the three years prior to this one
To blankly say we have the talent while ignoring the improvements TT has given us this year does not seem at all fair
We still have zero's at ILB....but no Dom has more pass rushers, a real safety, and the flexibility to move Clay inside
HaHa cleaned up Safety - that still would have been an issue to some extent the past few years... that is largely on TT; but dunderdummy surely could have made less of a mess of it.
Our front seven has been good talent wise for a few years now - the problem has been in how dunderdummy used them. The Jumbo 2-4 was a disaster, and the fact that he ran the 2-4 75% of the time has been the largest issue our defense has faced in the previous 3 years.
It has only been this year when MM supposedly got involved in the offseason that dunderdummy has been running 3-4 and 3-3, and predictably the results have been much better.
That said, given the talent he had available to him the last few years he could have used them to much better effect, but he insisted on run the 2-4 and misusing players. He had Perry at LB, when Perry was clearly a fish out of water out there; he ran the 2-4 in base situations all the time; he gameplanned to have Brad Jones and Hawk on the field 24/7, when he could have been mixing his fronts with players like Raji, Neal, Perry, Jolly, Pickett, Daniels, et al... instead of establishing a solid rotation based on situation, he played the 2-4 and teams not only ran over us, they passed thru us like swiss cheese.
And those facts are before anyone begins to look at the embarrassing playoff losses in which our defense was embarrassed multiple times. All of that is on Capers.