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hopefully this was not already posted. I"m sure it will be nitpicked and shredded. And I understand we should give them longer to develop. But ya gotta have a great batting average when this is your strategy .............or........you fall from the elite
I have not even read it but from memory:
Randall was a starting corner, who was still developing, making plays and still having some bad stretches, until he got hurt.
Rollins same as above, starting at his natural position of slot corner.
Jake Ryan and Blake Martinez finally filled the hole at ILB that had been explored since 2011. Their run D was impressive and Martinez's and Thomas' pass D was the best interior the Packers have had since Barnett and first year Hawk.
Jason Spriggs played out of position in the middle of a game and stoned the DT who had been wreaking havoc on the Packers passing game last week. He struggled with speed in his stint at LT replacing Bach, but he has had few reps at that position in a live game.
Clark has played better and better as the year has gone one. He has more pass rush than advertised but he does need to learn to handle and stand up double teams better. That is usually a skill a young player needs a year or two to bone up on.
Ryan and Martinez look half decent compared to what we have had at ILB - until you start to see what other teams have at that position, some higher drafted players, some of whom were talked about right here in this forum as good choices for the Packers, some players who kinda came out of nowhere and make Ryan and Martinez look pretty mediocre.
Randall and Rollins wouldn't be bad if they were mid round picks, but at #1 and 2, I for one expected better/quicker development.
It's too soon to say about Spriggs and Clark. They look decent, but then you see first and second year star-quality O and D linemen that other teams get. Other teams lose a couple of O Linemen and hardly miss a beat. We have to use damn Don Barkley - and Spriggs apparently is not even as highly thought of right now as him.
Bretsky nailed it. If somebody wants to do like Ted and build almost exclusively with the draft, he really needs to do better. Ted has gotten by for a long time on the magnificence of drafting Aaron Rodgers. Without that, his reputation would be shit, and he probably would have been gone a long time ago. He has been delinquent in maximizing things as a supporting cast for his superstar. That has resulted in slow decline and/or problems when injuries hit - hence the mess we are in now.
holy shit
i completely agree with tex
i feel sick
Better and quicker development might be easier to see of they weren't injured.
Hard to develop when your groin is ripped so bad you need surgery.Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax
Excuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax
With their sodomitic polar bear lifestyle, Rollins and Randall's groin injuries ain't surprising. But prior to them voodooed injuries, the two of them were ballin' like Mr. Hyde - and Hyde's an abomination.
Randall hasn't been a bona fide NFL corner since he idiotically abandoned man-coverage on Fitzgerald. Diggs and that Detriot WR made Randall their biotch. Rollins is nothing but a mediocre point guard trying to play corner.
You either have game or you don't. Randall and Rollins ain't got game, yo.
Can we stop calling it draft and develop, and call it what it really is, draft and be a starter, or key backup right away. No matter if they are first rounders or undrafted free agents. We rely heavily on these guys from day one.
And before Randall got hurt, wasn't he the biggest problem on the defense?
Ugh.
He might have been the biggest problem on a fifth ranked defense on a winning team.Quote:
Originally Posted by red
Everyone complaining about the talent outside of TE and ILB prior to this year is simply constructing a fantasy land where there are a number of teams with a better track record than the Packers, have more talent at each and every position, don't suffer waves of injuries and have no weak spots on the roster.
What team does not do this? Do you want to trade away draft picks? A seven pick draft class is 13% of the roster each year.Quote:
Originally Posted by red
so as long as we win, shitty players aren't a problem?
What it REALLY is, is draft and hope and pray. The develop part is added to sound good.Quote:
Originally Posted by red
with us once you factor in udfa, its probably closer to 20%Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax
we currently have 12 rookies on the active roster, plus 10 more second year players and 8 third year guys. thats well over half our roster on rookie contracts
thats a lot of inexperience
I've seen plenty of a healthy Randall and a healthy Rollins. They aren't particularly good. You expect them to be good when? 2018-2019?Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax
You blame our terrible defense on injuries. But for weeks I've watched guys like Rollins, Haha, Hyde, Burnett, Thomas, Gunter, etc get torched and tackle like shit and not know what they are doing. These guys are core rotation players that are supposed to be competent. They aren't.
If they win, maybe the shitty players aren't really all that shitty compared to the rest of the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by red
rollins is the one guy that i'm fine waiting for him to develop, he only has one year of pro and one year of college football under his belt. if anyone needs time to develop, its him. it would be nice for him to be able to be the #4 or 5 and just learn from a vet. insted he was the #3 out of the gate and became our #2 before half of his rookie season was done. and the one vet he has to learn from is probably legally brain deadQuote:
Originally Posted by yetisnowman
randall and rollins are the old guys in their second years
So the first 5 weeks of the season were smoke and mirrors?Quote:
Originally Posted by yetisnowman
Last season with Matthews at ILB was a mirage?
and didn't Randall have an average game, an outstanding game and then a poor game before being injured? who knows what the next six games might have been if he hadn't been injured.Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax
If you call amassing good run defense statistics against all the worst rushing teams in the NFL smoke and mirrors, sure. I also saw a healthy Randall and Rollins get roasted by Stegon Diggs and Marvin Jones Jr. And then Dallas had their way with us, both running and throwing.Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax
These are the games you are hanging your hat on?
Rollins probably does need another year and another offseason. But remember that Randall is transitioning back from college safety.Quote:
Originally Posted by red
The draft and develop is not without stress points. And its not a lock that Capers is the best DC for such a team. He has spoken about having to change it before for young players.
But that has been true since 2009. New to the mix is McCarthy's struggle to reconfigure his offense for the WRs he has.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax
IMO, .....we really screwed up by not drafting Eric Kendricks. He's what a starting ILB should look like. And I don't care if he was drafted 15 slots later. He would have been a great fit and fits the dominating profile we lack in defense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by red
YAAAAAAAAAAAAA; we must be the f'cking youngest team in the NFL again. Like last year...and the year before...and the year before..........it's like Obama............hope and change.....but right now I don't see the hope......(sorry for the politics reference)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax
It's not a lock that TT is the best GM for today's NFL either. Wolf said the NFL changed and it would be hard for him to be an effective GM. With the rising Cap, and TT's hibernation, perhaps the NFL is changing and leaving TTT behind
Didn't Seattle have more rookies/first year players than GB at the start of the season?
yeah, i think i counted 14 for them, but then theres a huge drop off to second year players, they have 4 second year players on the active roster and 6 or 7, 3rd year playersQuote:
Originally Posted by Patler
its funny looking at the 2 rosters
we have 5 guys on IR and are making injury excuses, they have 11 on IR
our practice squad consists of all rookies, and 2 second year guys
they only have 3 rookies on their PS, 5-second year guys, 1-third year guy, and 1-4th year guy
Overall, I think the average ages were just a few months different. Both were among the youngest teams in the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by red
Hey pbmax...are you OK !?Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax
I just noticed that your Pro Pickem picks for Sunday 27 Nov. early games are not in.
Bad week for fantasy. Been traveling. So I have handicapped myself this week by being late both days with picks.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodbuck27
And Joe is cleaning my clock in FF. He's going to have 4 wins and 2 of them against me :lol:
And Seattle started slow, their young OL got Wilson hurt and they looked oddly human until he was healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by red
Lets see what some more players back on D does for the Packers.
Vikings game was brutal, but as Patler mentioned the DBs looked better in other games. While Diggs torched them, the D put Peterson out of the game and kept the Packers in a game that had the offense was running around in circles with a bucket on their head.Quote:
Originally Posted by yetisnowman
All that torching resulted in 17 points allowed. I would love to be that terrible now with a much more functional offense.
One thing the Packers have done more this year than I recall them doing in past years, is signing injury settlements. Abrederris, Banjo, Walker, Henry, Backman and a bunch of rookies were all IR'dnthen released with injury settlements. It makes the size of their IR a lot smaller. In the past GB used IR to stockpile players like a lot of other teams do.Quote:
Originally Posted by red
Packer injuries this year have been odd though. Three key players on offense, defense and special teams have been lost to IR. Perhaps even more significant have been the piling on of injuries causing players to miss a lot of games, but not be put on IR. Cook and Randall have virtually missed the season so far. Then Rollins goes out forcing them to start their #4 & 5 CBs while using a #3 or #4 safety or #6 CB in nickel. That's quite devastating to pass coverage. They even lost their #2 & 3 options at RB. Both starting ILBs and Lang, and Tretter just added to the chaos.
i'm guessing they;re gonna be shit, just like they've been for a few years nowQuote:
Originally Posted by pbmax
remember years back when i think it was patler found the article talking about how capers needs vets?
capers also needs playmakers, his defense is dependent on turnovers. i don't think we have a single defensive playmaker on the team. clay's not that player anymore, peppers sure as hell isn't, haha hasn't turned into that player. the two young ILBs sure as hell aren't. we know burnett isn't. randall was last year, but not early this year
i think getting guys healthy on d will get them back to mediocre
Healthy, I think Dix, Randall and Rollins all can get him picks. Burnett can too when he is deep. Shields used to be able to do that but he's done.Quote:
Originally Posted by red
looking it up, we are tied for 10th in sacks, tied for 17th in ints, and tied for 29th for fumbles caused (the only team worse is tenn who hasn't gotten one yet)Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax
shields averages 3 per year (i didn't count this year), the most he had in a year is 4, casey hayward already has 6 this year for reference. so i wouldn't exactly call him a playmaker, good cb yes, but not a playmaker
haha has 5 in 3 years
burnett has 8 ints in 7 years
rollins had 2 last year, none this year
randall had 3 last year and 1 in his 3+ games this year
Defense doesn't take the ball away anymore, that is the big difference between this year and previous.
Big plays surrendered are way up too.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier
The logic goes something like this. We suck at drafting cuz we got Blake Martinez and the Patriots got Jamie Collins. We got DickRod and the Lions got Ebron. We got Lacy who got hurt and the Cowboys got Elliot. We got Randall and Carolina had Josh Norman. We should be better at every position than ANY other team.Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax
Truth is this is a good team devastated by injuries. It lacks elite talent because we have drafted outside the top 15 for how many years? One of the few top 10 picks we had got hurt and retired young. Clay is overrated and they insist on making him happy playing him outside instead of where his talents lie...inside and stunting.
MM's system is getting a bit stale and he doesn't seem to have the fire to change it up. He constantly mismanages situations by coaching as if his team has far superior talent. Playing uber cautious to the point that it backfires. You can't be comfortable with a 17 point lead late cuz you know we will play prevent, allow 2 TD's, run the ball 6-9 times and rely on an injury plagued D to hold on a final drive. Now he has lost the team best I can tell. Its impossible for us to be sure though, we can only gather the evidence and guess at it.
All that said, if I were GM I would trade clay if he doesn't want to play ILB, use Peppers money to grab a new elite Pass Rusher if I could and pray for health like every other team does. its no coincidence that in todays age of parity that the healthiest teams seem to have the best record.