CALL OUT THE BLAME TIME

[th87]

Rodgers had 3 of his only 4 seasons with a QBR under 100 the three seasons prior to picking love. He only had 25 and 26 TD passes the 2 before. People were really down on him....just like right now.

Learning behind a QB absolutely IS a thing. It just doesn't get done much anymore because of the pressure on GMs to win now. I can think of a guy it worked out really well for. And it isn't vital, I'll agree. You can have 2 losing seasons WHILE they learn, but its not advised. Much better for them to learn while the team wins. Quick....name the last rookie or 2nd year QB to win an OWL (hint, there were no rookies and 4 second year guys. All 4 of those guys had great teams around them, and 1 was Kurt warner who learned in arena and Europe)

Finally, no one argues that drafting Love was the right move. I was pissed as hell and still think it was a fuck up. If you believe that ARod would have dutifully played happy and been Mr. Team if we hadn't drafted Love you are nuts. No matter what he would have "got his". Thats the way the NFL is. Every great player gets paid. The only point I actually made (not the 5 you think I made) is that drafting Love, given all the circumstances was understandable. Just as I made the point a couple decades ago at about the exact time in Rodgers career...Under the circumstances drafting Rodgers wasn't the worst move ever.

Many, many of us were suspicious that Rodgers' "decline" in those years was due to the terribly unimaginative 3-wide no-motion offense that MM put out there, along with the scraps at WR besides Adams (who himself only became himself in 2018). We were proven right when we brought in a creative mind that actually schemed receivers open (like we jealously saw other teams do). Accordingly, when he played lights out, many of us weren't surprised at all.

I'd say one year is the sweet spot for a QB to sit and learn. If they sit for two, you only have one evaluation year before an extension looms, and that year will be full of growing pains, so it'd be hard to truly tell if they're worth extending. And the sitting would be to get used to the speed of the game and to learn the offense. I seriously doubt there's some secret that the new guy picks up from the old guy that no one else knows, that also cannot be picked up in one year.

That it worked out for Rodgers doesn't mean it was definitively the right approach. We're fortunate he was cool about sitting for 3 full years, and was willing to sign a cheap extension. But then we lost some years in which we could've loaded the team while he was on his rookie deal. It definitely seems he was ready in 2007, so it could've been good to have his breakout year come a year early in 2008.

Regarding drafting Rodgers versus Love, the circumstances were different. Contracts, where the team was at the time, what the incumbent QB was saying, all those things. Favre hinted at retirement multiple times by then; Rodgers said he wanted to keep playing into his 40s. The 2004 team looked a long way from contention, getting mooned by the Vikings, while the 2019 team had made it to the NFCCG, where Pettine couldn't figure out how to stop simple handoffs.

Nothing to do with your arguments, but my view is that the Packers should go Rams-all-in during the time Rodgers is here. The year he retires, draft the BPA, then go in with a journeyman stopgap QB. The following year, draft your QB of the future, and let him learn behind the stopgap. Then hand over the reins. I don't think it makes sense to do half all-in, half think about the future.

[th87]

"understandable"

No. I am squarely on the others side. What made it so so much worse was getting a THIRD RB in round two, and Deguara in round 3. Everyone was screaming for McLaurin instead of Jace (who I liked as a pick) in 2019. I think this was BOTH MLF and GUTE. Those picks in 2019 and 2020 screamed MLF, and as GM you just can't abandon your draft philosophy for a rookie HC. That 2020 draft was so egregious and it cost us at least one SB. This boneheaded drafting was given an exclamation point with the Quay pick. ILB round one when you absolutely need a starter on the line with Jenkins and Bakh out to begin the season. Joe Barry got his guy, and you gave the finger to the MVP instead: he needs to be fired ASAP (I mean Joe, not Gute: Gute will be gone soon enough).

I'm also in the "not understandable" category for a very divisive matter. AR is the best. Both the Rams and Niners were ready to trade away everything and their kitchen sink (not to mention Denver) for the so called declining over the hill QB. This is just a big divide in WI, and I really think it's more like 50/50 because a lot of the older folks (like myself) aren't on internet forums: they really really know what's coming and how lucky we are to have AR. It is simply amazing how well he has aged: only Favre and Brady (and Moon come think of it) have held up like this. Of those three, AR still is the most talented. He is incredibly underrated, but it's a divide in the fan base: what it is. Give him his 2020 oline (and we're not far perhaps from that) and a couple more WRs, and he can still have an MVP season again. It's that simple. Gute has NOT done what's needed, NOW FOR FOUR DRAFTS IN A ROW, to help out this offense. It's like AR can always get by with the scraps in the draft: NO HE CAN'T. He's older and needs MORE not LESS help, esp protection. And your only shot at another title has been to help AR, who is the most reliable guy in GB for 15 years, not your new HC, not Joe Barry. You support and bolster the knowns. Gute has dropped the quality of this FO a lot in his tenure. He just doesn't get it.

Bravo, sir.

[red]

FIRE EVERYONE

TRADE EVERYONE

OH MY GOD THIS IS SO HORRIBLE

And if the new regime, from the president to the GM to the head coach to the players, don't win three in a row right off the bat, FIRE THEM TOO.

DON'T STOP FIRING PEOPLE UNTIL I FEEL BETTER.

THATS THE SPIRIT!!!!

[bobblehead]

Many, many of us were suspicious that Rodgers' "decline" in those years was due to the terribly unimaginative 3-wide no-motion offense that MM put out there, along with the scraps at WR besides Adams (who himself only became himself in 2018). We were proven right when we brought in a creative mind that actually schemed receivers open (like we jealously saw other teams do). Accordingly, when he played lights out, many of us weren't surprised at all.

I'd say one year is the sweet spot for a QB to sit and learn. If they sit for two, you only have one evaluation year before an extension looms, and that year will be full of growing pains, so it'd be hard to truly tell if they're worth extending. And the sitting would be to get used to the speed of the game and to learn the offense. I seriously doubt there's some secret that the new guy picks up from the old guy that no one else knows, that also cannot be picked up in one year.

That it worked out for Rodgers doesn't mean it was definitively the right approach. We're fortunate he was cool about sitting for 3 full years, and was willing to sign a cheap extension. But then we lost some years in which we could've loaded the team while he was on his rookie deal. It definitely seems he was ready in 2007, so it could've been good to have his breakout year come a year early in 2008.

Regarding drafting Rodgers versus Love, the circumstances were different. Contracts, where the team was at the time, what the incumbent QB was saying, all those things. Favre hinted at retirement multiple times by then; Rodgers said he wanted to keep playing into his 40s. The 2004 team looked a long way from contention, getting mooned by the Vikings, while the 2019 team had made it to the NFCCG, where Pettine couldn't figure out how to stop simple handoffs.

Nothing to do with your arguments, but my view is that the Packers should go Rams-all-in during the time Rodgers is here. The year he retires, draft the BPA, then go in with a journeyman stopgap QB. The following year, draft your QB of the future, and let him learn behind the stopgap. Then hand over the reins. I don't think it makes sense to do half all-in, half think about the future.

Nice long winded post, except for one detail...the first year in the MLF young creative offense he DID NOT play so great. He only dialed the clock back and won an MVP AFTER we drafted Love and he felt disrespected....much like Brent had 2 of his best seasons AFTER we disrespected him and traded him away. No bigger critic of fat mike than me, but ARod wasn't the ARod of old WITH adams until we drafted Love. Those are simply facts.

[Jaire]

Just to clarify one point. No one was calling us trying to trade for ARod in 2019. They were calling AFTER he ran the offense and won an MVP award.....and I advocated trading him at the time.

Yeah. So, we are on opposites sides of that divide I was talking about. And I do understand your position. On my side, I just think AR has carried a lot of water (and continues to) for both coaching and more for the FO (which has become middle of the pack, where they were once the envy of the league). It's been a noticeable decline, I'd say since 2015: I gave Gute the benefit of the doubt til now, because now it's clearer whereas before I was just hoping it was reasonable mistakes.

[Jaire]

Nice long winded post, except for one detail...the first year in the MLF young creative offense he DID NOT play so great. He only dialed the clock back and won an MVP AFTER we drafted Love and he felt disrespected....much like Brent had 2 of his best seasons AFTER we disrespected him and traded him away. No bigger critic of fat mike than me, but ARod wasn't the ARod of old WITH adams until we drafted Love. Those are simply facts.

I agree. He did have a very good look in the mirror. He said so.

Honestly I think he took on a lot of the character (and flaws) of MM. That he overcame it is credit to AR. It was a bounce back. Regardless, I absolutely hated what they were doing in 2020 to AR. It absolutely stunk imo, and as you criticize AR, I think it's altogether fitting and deserved to criticize the FO which many at the time did. Also, I remember HOW they fired MM. I was for the firing (cuz he lost the locker room -- just can't do that), but HOW they did it stunk: no way around. I do think Gute has become better since. I just don't think he can ever lead us back to a SB. It was there for his taking, and I'd even say this year, it was there.

Anyways, tbh, I don't really care about SBs for GB or as a fan even. I just feel bad for AR and the players. I'm VERY appreciative both of AR and this whole locker room. They deserve a bit better from the FO and coaching (esp on the defensive side).

[Fritz]

I feel bad for them too. Then I look at my paycheck. Then I look at their paycheck. I think about how we both work really hard.

And then I don't feel so bad for them any more.

[Jaire]

I feel bad for them too. Then I look at my paycheck. Then I look at their paycheck. I think about how we both work really hard.

And then I don't feel so bad for them any more.

indeed. what am I thinking? Moreover, the players themselves could have won their last two outs, despite the circumstances. It was in their grasp.

[th87]

Nice long winded post, except for one detail...the first year in the MLF young creative offense he DID NOT play so great. He only dialed the clock back and won an MVP AFTER we drafted Love and he felt disrespected....much like Brent had 2 of his best seasons AFTER we disrespected him and traded him away. No bigger critic of fat mike than me, but ARod wasn't the ARod of old WITH adams until we drafted Love. Those are simply facts.

You don't think picking up a new offense might cause growing pains? Despite that, he was much better than the last years under MM.

And he had a solid playoff game to get us to the NFCCG.