The Inside Story of How the NFL's Plan for Its 1st Openly Gay Player Fell Apart

[woodbuck27]

Instead of don't ask don't tell, maybe don't worry about it?

Yes where I come from that falls under the category:

To each his/her own.

It's simply not our business how others live unless a part of that is intended to harm us.

Harming us is open to all sorts of interpretations and then back to the individual and certain prejudice may rule the day.

How do the people living in the present reach those that are ignorant in their past?

You simply allow those people to wrestle with their own struggles. It's not your/my business.

To get all absorbed in going there is a waste of time. You cannot change others. That's up to those others.

It's their personal business.

[mraynrand]

If you believe there will soon be a Packer up there with a male partner discussing how it might be a good idea to get that prostate checked out then you are delusional.

Why on earth would they do that in any case?

[woodbuck27]

Why on earth would they do that in any case?

Your somewhat naïve or is it simply green there 'M' but let's steer a course to something more obvious.

Isn't it clearly best to get a more professional opinion.

To LOVE your prostrate better.

[SkinBasket]

It's not deep man.

It's not complicated if you would simply try harder to read it ... interpret it.

I ain't interpreting shit, especially yours. How about you communicate in a manner that doesn't require a decoder ring? You obviously have no interest in an actual exchange of ideas.

OK I can't stand it anymore...

Since when is the quality and success of a personal relationship 'of any status'; based to any degree on the quality of that relationship's privacy in the bedroom...that relationship sexual status'?

A successful relationship is affirmed (or measured) in terms of every aspect of living as a couple. SEX isn't the most important aspect. It's down the list.

No one said any of this. If you'd take your head out your ass and actually follow along instead of regurgitating incoherent bits and pieces of whatever you find laying around, you would know that, and you would understood the difference between your misguided and patronistic desire to define a man as a homosexual while also branding anyone who doesn't support said behavior as intolerant and hateful, and an actual intellectually honest desire to have men who are homosexual generally treated like men who are heterosexual. Conflating love with tolerance and acceptance, and hate with disapproval or indifference is not only stupid, it's annoyingly self-righteous and belligerent. Your intolerance blinds you to differing opinion and your public sound chamber encourages your ignorance. In the end, you want to stereotype and pigeon-hole gays so they can stand testament to your hyperbolic crusade championing where a guy puts his cock. Without your trophy queer, your noble cause lacks the same moral weight. And so you decide what the gays should do and you decide how everyone should react. Because you have the holy light of tolerance enshrouding you, striking down anyone who might dare disagree.

[SkinBasket]

If you believe there will soon be a Packer up there with a male partner discussing how it might be a good idea to get that prostate checked out then you are delusional.

And why would it have to be a couple fags promoting prostates? Because it would make sense because they like butt sex? You mention the Jordy and his wife again being used for advertising, again. Has it crossed your mind that advertising is about connecting with as large an audience as possible... like maybe the 90-95% heterosexual audience instead of some evil cabal to keep fags off the jumbotron?

Someone will need to publicly announce, wait for the media whirlwind to pass and then watch it become far less important over time.

Need. There's that language again. Media whirlwind? And who's going to be the driving force behind that whirlwind? Because it's not going to be your massive shadow network of national gay hating groups. Again, the only people this is important to is the very ones who claim it's not important. But go ahead and serve up your sacrificial gay football player to months of talk about his sexuality because... why again? Oh, that's right, the "silence." And by "silence" you mean a name. Because we know there are gay players. The only difference is I don't need to know their name or have them serve as a token symbol for other people's purposes.

[woodbuck27]

I ain't interpreting shit, especially yours. How about you communicate in a manner that doesn't require a decoder ring? You obviously have no interest in an actual exchange of ideas.



No one said any of this. If you'd take your head out your ass and actually follow along instead of regurgitating incoherent bits and pieces of whatever you find laying around, you would know that, and you would understood the difference between your misguided and patronistic desire to define a man as a homosexual while also branding anyone who doesn't support said behavior as intolerant and hateful, and an actual intellectually honest desire to have men who are homosexual generally treated like men who are heterosexual. Conflating love with tolerance and acceptance, and hate with disapproval or indifference is not only stupid, it's annoyingly self-righteous and belligerent. Your intolerance blinds you to differing opinion and your public sound chamber encourages your ignorance. In the end, you want to stereotype and pigeon-hole gays so they can stand testament to your hyperbolic crusade championing where a guy puts his cock. Without your trophy queer, your noble cause lacks the same moral weight. And so you decide what the gays should do and you decide how everyone should react. Because you have the holy light of tolerance enshrouding you, striking down anyone who might dare disagree.

WOW! Your manners really suck you down.

This tiatribe against me hardly is based on who I am or whatsoever how I express my views here. Where do I label anyone here as anything? Frankly I don't care what you stand for mister. Your stances would hardly agree with anything sane or reasonably rational, when you express with such extreme anger.

** Good manners and some order of restraint in trying to understand anyone. **

** Is there a common sense merit in that?

That describes me in all I've ever stood for Skinbasket. I've always aimed to be that person. I've been known generally as a fair person. Tolerant of the views and opinions of others, because that's mannerly and the 'only' way not to burn the bridge (s) needed to communicate. Live in a healthy environment of open mindedness and working for the ultimate TRUTH in results founded in simple compassion and decency.

Your forms of English language usage (cursing and derogatory slams/slurs) hardly meets common standards of decency. You may start out seemingly rational but soon that will deteriorate into one big rant of angry proportions.

I actually can't take you serious as that's just an act to cover up your real issues. I feel genuinely bad for you SkinBasket your life must be difficult.

Chin up !

This is a question just for you. That "just maybe? 'YOU' need ask yourself".

How do you live with such intense anger?

I cannot possibly seriously respond 'specifically to your post above'; to anyone in your state.

For me to do so would be a clear "self abuse".

I'd wish you a nice day but that's hardly possible in the state your so obviously in. Maybe you'll feel better after taking some medication.

I'm on your side as a human being. Life does offer it's challenges.

The answers for me ends in an...

AMEN !

PS: Are you depressed? If you are I recommend getting help ASAP.

[Teamcheez1]

Can all of you take this conversation to a bathhouse? The rest of us are tired of seeing this thread show up on our screens.

[woodbuck27]

Can all of you take this conversation to a bathhouse? The rest of us are tired of seeing this thread show up on our screens.

You do have the option of ignoring this thread. That will work.

Also... I'm of the opinion that the direction this thread is in or has turned to is beyond any use and topics "football".

Have a nice day.

[woodbuck27]

" Can all of you take this conversation to a bathhouse? The rest of us are tired of seeing this thread show up on our screens." Teamcheez1

You do have the option of ignoring this thread. That will work.

Also... I'm of the opinion that the direction this thread is in or has turned to is beyond any use and topics "football".

Have a nice day.

Does this thread belong here any longer?

It's beginning to resemble an episode of:

"The Walking Dead".

It's drawing flys.

[SkinBasket]

WOW! Your manners really suck you down.

blah blah blah

You, sir, are as cowardly as you are insincerely repetitive in your "contributions" to this discussion. You hide behind your demented claim of "manners" and "decency" just like you hide behind your equally perverted claims of "tolerance." Those are not insults, they are assessments. Based on your posts, not on any mental condition I would childishly and ignorantly try to attribute to you. No one is angry. You confuse the conviction of logic for anger because you have no intellectual sense of purpose or direction, and you find your feet quickly slipping on the crumbling footing on which you stand, so you panic and mistake confidence for aggression.

Does that meet your fucking manners requirement? Can you bend your mind back to the topic without throwing a hissy fit, or will you simply continue to toss labels around to avoid having to analyze your own flawed thinking? Just wondering, because you really haven't addressed the shortcomings, or even the most basic purpose, of your position.

[pbmax]

And why would it have to be a couple fags promoting prostates? Because it would make sense because they like butt sex? You mention the Jordy and his wife again being used for advertising, again. Has it crossed your mind that advertising is about connecting with as large an audience as possible... like maybe the 90-95% heterosexual audience instead of some evil cabal to keep fags off the jumbotron?



Need. There's that language again. Media whirlwind? And who's going to be the driving force behind that whirlwind? Because it's not going to be your massive shadow network of national gay hating groups. Again, the only people this is important to is the very ones who claim it's not important. But go ahead and serve up your sacrificial gay football player to months of talk about his sexuality because... why again? Oh, that's right, the "silence." And by "silence" you mean a name. Because we know there are gay players. The only difference is I don't need to know their name or have them serve as a token symbol for other people's purposes.

The audience was 90-95 percent white. Should they not have put Randall Cobb up there to sell the Packer Pro Shop?

If you choose to include family members to promote whatever the Packers are selling, then all families should be eligible to be awkward on camera. But it won't happen for a gay player's family until someone publicly acknowledges that such a thing exists. Even if the presence of gay men would clearly help sell Packer Truck Nuts for prostate research.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Going back to Kluwe, I think he's an attention whore. He lost his podium on which to speak due to not being on an NFL roster and now he's needing a way to be relevant to a topic that means a lot to him.

Personally, I think he simply got cut because over the last 4 years of his career he was an avg to below avg punter (ranked 15, 21,13, 22 in avg yds for those years) and given he had 9 games in a dome each year he should have frankly been much better (8 home, 1 at Det). As everyone knows, you can get cut at any time from an NFL roster for really any reason. The Vikes cut Longwell the same way by drafting someone when it was clear they could do better at the position. His well-written article on Deadspin glosses over that he wasn't a very good punter. Sure he can bring up that he's the best punter in Vikings history, but that's not much to brag about given that Vikings punters haven't been all that great in the past and that compared to the rest of the league he was decidedly average at best. Of course people are going to present themselves in the best light possible when going over how they feel they have been wronged. Doesn't mean it's the complete truth.

Living up here in MN, I guess I kinda got tired of his schtick a long time ago so I may see him differently than others.

[woodbuck27]

You, sir, are as cowardly as you are insincerely repetitive in your "contributions" to this discussion. You hide behind your demented claim of "manners" and "decency" just like you hide behind your equally perverted claims of "tolerance." Those are not insults, they are assessments. Based on your posts, not on any mental condition I would childishly and ignorantly try to attribute to you. No one is angry. You confuse the conviction of logic for anger because you have no intellectual sense of purpose or direction, and you find your feet quickly slipping on the crumbling footing on which you stand, so you panic and mistake confidence for aggression.

Does that meet your fucking manners requirement? Can you bend your mind back to the topic without throwing a hissy fit, or will you simply continue to toss labels around to avoid having to analyze your own flawed thinking? Just wondering, because you really haven't addressed the shortcomings, or even the most basic purpose, of your position.

If you ever came to my face I'd demonstrate just how cowardly I am mate.

You might get an alarming surprize.

Do I have to kick your ass here again? I find that about as satisfying as crushing an ant beneath my feet.

** " you hide behind your equally perverted claims of "tolerance.".. " SkinBasket

Since when is a tolerant fair approach towards other people's freedoms and lives a perverted position? Clearly that's where I stand on the basic topic of GAY Rights and related to the NFL present day acceptance of such.

Spin your web of deceit SkinBasket. Your game has always been old. Your bravado hollow.

Do you need to be slammed to satisfy some personal masochistic need? I cannot engage you in that. I'm too kind. I'm no psychologist as much as I do recognize your pain.

" you find your feet quickly slipping on the crumbling footing on which you stand.." SkinBasket

Your being really tricky there SkinBasket. Are you serious. You can't be. If you are you have all my sincerest sympathy.

You make a mockery of yourself in this contradiction of what I AM.

If there's one thing I'm very sure of it's my position regarding the rights of all men and women. I'm firmly convinced, that my fairness is a correct stance. I totally respected and learned from people that life blessed me with. People that were guided in their daily lives with a focus on decency.

Do you know what decency means SkinBasket? Can you relate to that?

You can go on posting nonsense in an undignified manner. I'm more tolerant than some posters here that would simply laugh at you. I won't allow you to run off with your common bullshit. I feel terrible for you SkinBasket.

Don't go on slamming me in terms of the tolerance I wish all people had. That's going to get you nothing but the back of my hand Mate.

[woodbuck27]

You, sir, are as cowardly as you are insincerely repetitive in your "contributions" to this discussion. You hide behind your demented claim of "manners" and "decency" just like you hide behind your equally perverted claims of "tolerance." Those are not insults, they are assessments. Based on your posts, not on any mental condition I would childishly and ignorantly try to attribute to you. No one is angry. You confuse the conviction of logic for anger because you have no intellectual sense of purpose or direction, and you find your feet quickly slipping on the crumbling footing on which you stand, so you panic and mistake confidence for aggression.

Does that meet your fucking manners requirement? Can you bend your mind back to the topic without throwing a hissy fit, or will you simply continue to toss labels around to avoid having to analyze your own flawed thinking? Just wondering, because you really haven't addressed the shortcomings, or even the most basic purpose, of your position.

By the way..I'll add this:

Don't even imagine this is going to turn into some "Dick Swinging Contest" between you and I.

I don't entertain such as that would be beneath my standard of sincere confidence in terms of the levels I've often observed you crashing to.

I don't waste my time.

[Guiness]

Going back to Kluwe, I think he's an attention whore. He lost his podium on which to speak due to not being on an NFL roster and now he's needing a way to be relevant to a topic that means a lot to him.

Personally, I think he simply got cut because over the last 4 years of his career he was an avg to below avg punter (ranked 15, 21,13, 22 in avg yds for those years) and given he had 9 games in a dome each year he should have frankly been much better (8 home, 1 at Det). As everyone knows, you can get cut at any time from an NFL roster for really any reason. The Vikes cut Longwell the same way by drafting someone when it was clear they could do better at the position. His well-written article on Deadspin glosses over that he wasn't a very good punter. Sure he can bring up that he's the best punter in Vikings history, but that's not much to brag about given that Vikings punters haven't been all that great in the past and that compared to the rest of the league he was decidedly average at best. Of course people are going to present themselves in the best light possible when going over how they feel they have been wronged. Doesn't mean it's the complete truth.

Living up here in MN, I guess I kinda got tired of his schtick a long time ago so I may see him differently than others.

As mentioned earlier, I think you're right that they just wanted a punter upgrade...you don't spent a draft pick on one unless you see a player you think is Pro Bowl worthy. However, I wouldn't write off his comments about Priefer too quickly.

He's got a lawyer and there's going to be an investigation - I'm not sure what they can investigate, sounds like a 'he said he said' thing, but I guess some others might have overheard it.

[woodbuck27]

Going back to Kluwe, I think he's an attention whore. He lost his podium on which to speak due to not being on an NFL roster and now he's needing a way to be relevant to a topic that means a lot to him.

Personally, I think he simply got cut because over the last 4 years of his career he was an avg to below avg punter (ranked 15, 21,13, 22 in avg yds for those years) and given he had 9 games in a dome each year he should have frankly been much better (8 home, 1 at Det). As everyone knows, you can get cut at any time from an NFL roster for really any reason. The Vikes cut Longwell the same way by drafting someone when it was clear they could do better at the position. His well-written article on Deadspin glosses over that he wasn't a very good punter. Sure he can bring up that he's the best punter in Vikings history, but that's not much to brag about given that Vikings punters haven't been all that great in the past and that compared to the rest of the league he was decidedly average at best. Of course people are going to present themselves in the best light possible when going over how they feel they have been wronged. Doesn't mean it's the complete truth.

Living up here in MN, I guess I kinda got tired of his schtick a long time ago so I may see him differently than others.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chris-kl...sex-marriages/

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10...-cut-due-views

http://www.dothanfirst.com/story/ext...OESOoWJlNvW3DQ


The issue isn't any longer about **Chris Kluwe and punting competency. Was he decent enough or not in that regard.

This is a story regarding the TRUTH behind certain claims on behalf of Chris Kluwe against people employed in or formerly employed in (former Viking HC Leslie Frazier) the Minnesots Viking Organization.

This is a story of Chris Kluwe's whistle blowing that might have left him unemployable for any NFL team. At the same time may have as a result curtailed the career aspirations or potential of one of those accused or Viking ST's coordinator Mike Priefer.

This story is about claims of intolerance.

This story is about Chris Kluwe's claims of discrimination, non-support and bigotry in regards to his position (views) on "same sex marriage". That he was a victim of homophobic remarks by the Minnesota Vikings Mike Priefer.

It's about positions he claims were made by people in the Viking organization that gave him opposition to his views in an improper manner. It's about a claim of "non-support from his Head Coach (Leslie Frazier) which contradicted the Minnesota Viking Team Owner's position of support for him. A Claim of the shocking bigotry on behalf of the Vikings ST Coach Mike Priefer .

" He (Chris Kluwe ) says in 2012, Vikings owner Zygi Wilf supported his activism, but head coach Leslie Fraiser asked him to stop and special teams coach Mike Priefer became openly hostile. In his letter, Kluwe calls Fraiser a coward and Priefer a bigot. " From LINK

** Chris Kluwe is a married father with two daughters. Kluwe and his wife 'Isabel' had their first daughter in July 2008, and their second in 2010.

GO PACK GO !

[Cheesehead Craig]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chris-kl...sex-marriages/

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10...-cut-due-views

http://www.dothanfirst.com/story/ext...OESOoWJlNvW3DQ


The issue isn't any longer about **Chris Kluwe and punting competency. Was he decent enough or not in that regard.

This story is about claims of intolerance.

This story is about Chris Kluwe's claims of discrimination, non-support and bigotry in regards to his position (views) on "same sex marriage". That he was a victim of homophobic remarks by Vikings special teams coordinator Mike Priefer.

It's about positions he claims were made by people in the Viking organization that gave him opposition to his views in an improper manner. It's about a claim of "non-support from his Head Coach (Leslie Frazier) which contradicted the Minnesota Viking Team Owner's position of support for him. A Claim of the shocking bigotry on behalf of the Vikings ST Coach Mike Priefer .

" He (Chris Kluwe ) says in 2012, Vikings owner Zygi Wilf supported his activism, but head coach Leslie Fraiser asked him to stop and special teams coach Mike Priefer became openly hostile. In his letter, Kluwe calls Fraiser a coward and Priefer a bigot. " From LINK

** Chris Kluwe is a married father with two daughters. Kluwe and his wife 'Isabel' had their first daughter in July 2008, and their second in 2010.

GO PACK GO !

I'm aware of what the issue is about Woody. I just feel there is more to his motives than he claims. Getting cooberation on his stories of what happened now, so many months ago is going to be difficult. Like others have said here, getting some witness to come forward and agree with everything would certainly change things. It very much is a "he said - he said" situation at this time in regards to the ST coach.

Frasier was under no obligation to agree with Wilf. Wilf can look at it as yes, he's helping promote a cause he agrees with but also it's getting the Vikings franchise more exposure and that's good for business. Wilf didn't have to keep answering questions about him, so it was less of a hassle to him and better for the overall image of the team. Frasier is trying to run an entire football team and has to now deal with many questions about his punter of all people. He was asked quite a bit about it as I heard many radio snippets about it up here. Having to put so much time and energy dealing with the one person (a punter at that) is not the best use of time for a coach and I can totally see why he would just want the situation to go away as easily as possible.

[SkinBasket]

The audience was 90-95 percent white. Should they not have put Randall Cobb up there to sell the Packer Pro Shop?

If you choose to include family members to promote whatever the Packers are selling, then all families should be eligible to be awkward on camera. But it won't happen for a gay player's family until someone publicly acknowledges that such a thing exists. Even if the presence of gay men would clearly help sell Packer Truck Nuts for prostate research.

Was Randall Cobb's wife/girlfriend/hooker with him? Do you know he's not gay? If he is, but chooses not to tell you, does that make him less of a person? I'm assuming Mrs Nelson was included in the messege because she's presumably got titties, not because she's straight.

Why aren't you interested in knowing that fisters exist in the league? Why shouldn't asphyxial mastrubaters' right to exist in public be of such grave concern as you show for homosexuality? Again, you've chosen a sexual aspect of someone's life and decided we all need to know about it. Why just that one, and not others? After all, these men are not defined by their sexual behavior. That we both agree on.

[SkinBasket]

If there's one thing I'm very sure of it's my position regarding the rights of all men and women. I'm firmly convinced, that my fairness is a correct stance.

Please. The only thing you're concerned with is the "rights" of anyone who agrees with your beliefs. Your nobility is foolishness and your tolerance as hollow as your wacky threats, which hardly seem to be mannerly. But don't worry, I'm a charitable man, so if ever we do meet, I'll still drop a nickel in your cup. And no, that's not a gay thing.

PS: I'm guessing you're not going to answer any of the questions I've asked that might give any kind of meaning to your position, other than to keep repeating that you're position is superior because you are right. Must be nice to be infallible in your own mind.

[woodbuck27]

I'm aware of what the issue is about Woody. I just feel there is more to his motives than he claims. Getting cooberation on his stories of what happened now, so many months ago is going to be difficult. Like others have said here, getting some witness to come forward and agree with everything would certainly change things. It very much is a "he said - he said" situation at this time in regards to the ST coach.

Frasier was under no obligation to agree with Wilf. Wilf can look at it as yes, he's helping promote a cause he agrees with but also it's getting the Vikings franchise more exposure and that's good for business. Wilf didn't have to keep answering questions about him, so it was less of a hassle to him and better for the overall image of the team. Frasier is trying to run an entire football team and has to now deal with many questions about his punter of all people. He was asked quite a bit about it as I heard many radio snippets about it up here. Having to put so much time and energy dealing with the one person (a punter at that) is not the best use of time for a coach and I can totally see why he would just want the situation to go away as easily as possible.

Hi:

I'm not in any position to try to determine who said what or I choose a neutral position in this as you accurately put it:

He said ... He said.

I've a pretty good idea where this will go in the end. My position there may border on cynicism. I hope I'm surprized in terms of where I feel this case deserves to arrive.

As an NFL fan I'm interested in seeing where this specific Chris Kluwe case ends up. I hope it progresses or somehow aids a finding of an NFL formal position and equal rights for all.