HOFer
Watson is barely behind Jordy in long speed, and short speed is far more meaningful in the NFL. MVS was only a deep threat and not much else because he didn't have that short speed. He had to run a 9 route to get open, because his separation could only happen 15 yards downfield. Watson has the opportunity to be a far more impactful receiver if he can put everything together.Originally Posted by RashanGary
It's such a GOOD feeling...13 TIME WORLD CHAMPIONS!!
Can't rule out the possibility that his long speed is better if someone is chasing him.
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
The more I go through Watsons big plays, the more a few patterns stick out.
Most of his big plays were either seam routes or come back routes where he turned it up field after the catch and burst for 20 extra yards. I saw a back shoulder where he looked really natural.
The majority of the other big plays were end around and runs. Hes really dynamic with the ball in his hands. Its his number one trait.
I think to start out, you run him as a deep decoy and then work comebacks and back shoulders off of that. Unlike MVS, this speedster can back shoulder. Then add in some jet sweeps and screens to get the ball in his hands and use that part of his game. Maybe have him return kicks.
Then you hope he starts to round out the rest of his game with time.
Last edited by RashanGary; 05-04-2022 at 08:28 PM.
He's smart enough to learn all the routes from day one and agile enough to execute them. I expect him to be the most productive receiver from the first regular season games.
What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?
We will see.
This is no different than you saying we were gonna keep Adams and MVS and then back tracking when we did neither.
You think you know everything and then you dont but it doesnt stop you from going right back to knowing everything.
HOFer
One note about level of competition. I read that the MVFC had more players drafted then most of the Group of Five conferences. The MVFC is the SEC of FBS. That conference regularly beats FCS teams. NDSU has won 6 straight games against Power 5 teams (Iowa, Minnesota, Iowa State, Kansas State, Kansas, Colorado). SDSU, Northern Iowa, and others have beaten Power 5 schools. Last year, South Dakota State beat Colorado State by 19. Missouri State lost to Oklahoma State by 7. Southern Illinois lost to Kansas State by 8. South Dakota lost to Kansas by 3. Northern Iowa lost to Iowa State by 6. So, they went 1-4, but no loss by more than 8 points and NDSU didn't play an FBS team.
So, if you are looking at guys from NDSU, Northern Iowa, etc. realize that, though they play FCS, they play a schedule on par with most Group of Five teams. Outside of the AAC (Cincinnati), NDSU would have won a majority of the Group of Five conferenes last year (and going back the last 10 years). Appalachian State, a recent convert from FCS that NDSU has dominated, made the championship game of the Sun Belt the last two full seasons.
"There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson
hahahahaha That's what forums are all about. Who in this forum or anyplace else anticipated Adams being gone/demanding the trade? I over estimated the value of MVS, I guess. I didn't think another team would pay that much, and the Packers would retain him for a little less. I think that also was the general consensus.
As for Watson, he has all the physical and mental tools, he has the GOAT QB throwing to him, and he has a situation where nobody else is clearly "the guy". Why would he not be great right from the start?
What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?
Of the roookies? Yeah. Of all the WR? Well...by end of year I could see it.I expect him to be the most productive receiver from the first regular season game
I guess it depends on how you define 'productive' - recs? yards? ypc? he could easily be a 15 recs at 20 ypc 9-route monster, but I'd expect better from a R2 pick.
You could be right - he did pretty good against Senior Bowl competition and while he is raw he has a lot of upside. By all accounts he's a hard worker and I think as he learns the offense and THEN learns how Rodgers likes routes run he'll figure it out. If I want to be optimistic I would expect a year of gradual growth followed by a big Year 2 jump, but I want to see him in real games against pro CBs first. More realistically I expect his first year to be bumpy but at a minimum he will be given lots of chances to produce.
I meant of all the Packer receivers, but honestly it wouldn't surprise me if he outperformed all the WRs in the league.
What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?
Yeah I meant of the Packer receivers, not the league... but ok. I like your optimism. Don't see it that way, but if you're going to aim high, aim high.
I watched the highlight reel and had initially thought he showed a lot of quickness and agility. But upon further review its more straight line explosiveness than it is short area quickness.
I dont think he has as much upside as a route runner as I initially thought.
He can run a go route. Hes fast. As a change up, off of that, he runs a good come back and looks coordinated back shouldering. He also looks explosive with the ball in his hands. I dont see him being a complete player, but he has one go-to quality (speed) and a couple change ups off of that. I dont see him sinking his hips and having those sudden breaks in his routes. Hes limited. But he can be a nice piece in a rotation and do a few things well.
He can do a few more things than MVS did (come backs, back shoulders, screens and jet sweeps.) If he masters his high upside areas, he can still end up a great pick who you can lean on for a few go-to routes.
The sheer negativity, RG. smh
We don't draft a dude at 34 unless he's graded there. I don't think GB has changed its draft philosophy or ability. Pittsburg and GB are the best when it comes to WR: Pittsburg def got a Pittsburg receiver, GB a couple of GB receivers: the whole world is unhinged, but at least this has not changed.
But Doubs is the better route runner at this point.
We have our WRs of the future. These are in the same mold as what we've drafted the last 16 years.
I think his height is going to make him struggle with certain things, and while I think his play speed is close to his track speed, I don't know that you can say the same for his agility. As a prospect he has tons of upside and at a minimum is a better MVS. From what I hear he can learn a playbook and wants to get better, so what he has between the ears seems promising for his career prospects as well. You gotta admit the prospect of running play-action with him matched up against a 5-11" CB on a go route seems advantageous for GB.
Give him time. He may never be Davante Adams deadly with his routes, but a defense will have to account for his size/speed, and he will get better.
James Jones had a few go-to routes. Jordy had a few go-to routes. Cobb was slot receiver who settled into zones well.
Davante and Jennings kind of did it all.
Its not going to stop Watson that he has a few go-to strengths. MLF and Rodgers will learn what Watson does well and put him in position for success.
The nice thing about Watsons strengths is that they work together. A go route and a stop route are a good mix (especially when Watson is so dynamic once the ball is in his hands on the come back.) A go route and a back shoulder are a good mix. Plus you can get the ball in his hands with screens and jet sweeps. Plus he blocks.
I have high hopes that theyll get the most out of Watsons strengths. Rodgers has fed the ball to different types over the years. Watson is just the latest weapon for 12 to learn how to feed.
Jordy was a big body. Once he got positioning, no one could fight him off his spot. He was unfazed by contact. He rarely operated with any degree of separation but was open anyway because of his size and body positioning was so strong. He did run a good out and up that was the one route that hed be wide open. Watson cant do what Jordy did.
Davante, Driver and Jennings could cut any direction and create separation. They were always open. Watson cant do that. Hes not a good route runner.
MVS had elite build up speed. Once he got going deep no one could catch him. Watson might be able to do that even though his build up speed isnt as good. His speed out of the gates is elite and his long speed is good.
What Watson does seem to do well is get yards with the ball in his hands. He can do that. He runs a good go route and can back shoulder and runs a good stop route. Hopefully its enough. 32 teams passed on him for a reason. James Jones was kind of limited and still had a good career.
All good points, RG.
MVS has clocked at 22 mph. Watson at 23: he has another gear at times, and ELITE take off as you say. (He's also been reported at a 4.21.) Another difference is that Watson tracks the ball and catches better down field in stride. Speed kills. They will bring him along slowly. Another thing is that he has a much better work ethic as a rookie than MVS. So..... at the worst he's a better MVS in my opinion, with a lot more he can do. I think he has a decent floor for a speed guy.
Teams passed because he has a ways to go. LIS GB always takes "their guys" high in the second (see Jordy, Jennings, Cobb). Davante is an exception because that was the deepest class in like 20 years. We grabbed him where GB valued him, higher than other teams: and they like their developmental stars. Watson has the tools to be great, but will take a few years while I expect he'll get 600-800 yards in year one. I actually think Doubs is farther ahead in route running.
edit: oh, and he BLOCKS. That probably sent him up a round on MLF's personal board.
Last edited by Jaire; 05-09-2022 at 04:30 PM.
The best comp for Watson is MVS. Tall, skinny, fast. Not good in traffic. Not good route runner.
Watson does a couple things MVS didnt do.
1. He can back shoulder
2. He runs a good stop route
3. Hes explosive with the ball in his hands
If MVS is a 700 yard receiver being mostly a one trick pony, Watson can be 1,000 yards and a couple trick pony.
Most of MVS big plays were deep posts where he got behind coverage. I could see Watson having those plays and a few others.
Watson can run
Go routes
Stop routes
Stop n go
Deep posts (like MVS)
Screens
Jet sweeps
He can do a few things more than MVS but hes more like MVS than any other recent Packer receiver in that hes straight line fast, but limited.
HOFer
Ugh!
Last edited by HarveyWallbangers; 05-09-2022 at 06:33 PM.
"There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson
HOFer
RG...Watson never had the chance to truly run multiple routes during much of his college career. He played on a run first offense. He may very easily learn how to run routes at the next level and become a monster. To me, his ceiling is much higher than MVS because long speed was all MVS had. Didn't matter if he could learn to run other routes... He did not possess the size or short explosiveness to take advantage of them. That is not true of Watson. True, he may not reach his full potential, but if he does he will be much better than MVS.
It's such a GOOD feeling...13 TIME WORLD CHAMPIONS!!
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